Re: If you've experienced anything like this, *please* let me know

[Guest guest]

been there done that :-( this will sound familiar to almost everyone on

this list...my nada ( not a mother) never blames her FOO for anything

because nothing is wrong with her..and if anything WAS wrong with her, it

would her kids fault! yes, my father always put nadas feelings above and

beyond anyone elses...even as young kids, we had to always be aware of

nadas feelings ( but she never cared about ours) we had to be careful not to

hurt her feelings and not make her nervous..nope nada does NOT respect her

childrens boundaries...we were not allowed any when we lived under HER

roof/in HER house...we had no privacy..no locked doors, she was allowed to

go anywhere any time..and yes, nada pitted us siblings against each other,

telling lies ...she told me sister said blah blah blah and so I was to get

punished...years later when sister and I began talking we found this out !!

I did NOT do X and sister did not tell nada I did...nada just wanted to stir

up trouble and be mean !! This happened all the time !! Your recent events

sound all too familiar too :-(

Jackie

>

> 2) My father defends my nada's feelings at all costs. Growing up, he

> frequently instructed us that we needed to be kind, considerate, and

> understanding towards my mother. That " unlike us " , she wasn't raised in a

> loving family and sometimes didn't know how to act. It was important for

> us to help " mommy feel good " . My dad frequently traveled and it was my

> job as the oldest sibling to pick up the slack when he was gone--caring

> for nada and doing any of the parental things she couldn't handle on any

> particular day, like assigning chores or bathing babies.

>

> 3) Nada does not respect personal boundaries (she asks inappropriate

> questions from her children -- like what color is your pubic hair) and has

> not handled her children's transition to adulthood very well.

>

> 4) My mother stirs up animosity between her children, especially between

> her daughters. She behaves in paranoid fashion when any combination of

> her children get together without her. She frequently talks negatively

> about her children to her other children. To avoid an explosion, the

> safest thing to do is agree with her, or partially agree with her and that

> is what most of my siblings do most of the time. Nada will then twist the

> words of sibling B and take it back to sibling A, who will then get mad at

> sibling B before realizing nada's role.

>

[Guest guest]

I'm still new to the board, and I'll leave any advice/tips to others, but I just

had to let you know that I literally LOL'ed at some of your descriptions of your

Nada. (Especially about the chocolate) I could have written most of that myself.

It's exhausting maneuvering a relationship with someone with BPD, and sometimes

I forget how much it influences my interactions with other family members, much

in the same way you describe. Just wanted you to know that in absolutely no way

are you alone in this struggle. Best of luck.

>

> I'm new here and there is so much history involved in this most recent

episode, I'm not sure I know which details are most pertinent, so please bear

with me if this is a little long or if it is confusing because of something I

left out.

>

> Background:

>

> 1) My mother hates her FOO and blames them for everything in her life. My dad

completely accepts this view of the world--anything that is wrong with my mother

is not her fault, it is the result of her treatment at the hands of my " evil "

grandmother and " conniving " aunt.

>

> My grandmother was an abusive alcoholic and a pretty lousy mother, but she

stopped drinking decades ago and began taking medication for depression. She

been generous to me and my siblings and I have never heard her say a bad word

about my mother, and haven't witnessed any " bad behavior " from her since I was

12. My aunt never had kids of her own and isn't always able to see the world

from the perspective of someone who has, but she's basically a nice person. She

can be a little bossy (after all, she is an older sister) but the greatest

" sins " I've ever witnessed from her is disagreeing with my mother and allowing

my grandmother to buy her things after she has done something nice for my

grandmother. They live on the other side of the country from us.

>

> 2) My father defends my nada's feelings at all costs. Growing up, he

frequently instructed us that we needed to be kind, considerate, and

understanding towards my mother. That " unlike us " , she wasn't raised in a

loving family and sometimes didn't know how to act. It was important for us to

help " mommy feel good " . My dad frequently traveled and it was my job as the

oldest sibling to pick up the slack when he was gone--caring for nada and doing

any of the parental things she couldn't handle on any particular day, like

assigning chores or bathing babies.

>

> 3) Nada does not respect personal boundaries (she asks inappropriate questions

from her children -- like what color is your pubic hair) and has not handled her

children's transition to adulthood very well.

>

> 4) My mother stirs up animosity between her children, especially between her

daughters. She behaves in paranoid fashion when any combination of her children

get together without her. She frequently talks negatively about her children to

her other children. To avoid an explosion, the safest thing to do is agree with

her, or partially agree with her and that is what most of my siblings do most of

the time. Nada will then twist the words of sibling B and take it back to

sibling A, who will then get mad at sibling B before realizing nada's role.

>

> Recent events:

>

> 1) I decided to take my infant son out to meet my grandmother. She is 87 and

my son is her only great-grandchild. She has been generous to me and I wanted

to do something nice for her and also have pictures to share with my son when he

is older. I also wanted to see my aunt, whose company I have always enjoyed. I

tentatively set up plans with my aunt for the 4th of July weekend and then made

sure to tell nada about my plans before she heard them from my aunt. I told

nada, who told me that I should have told her before considering plans. She

then proceeded to warn me about my aunt and grandmother. The next day, she

called up and informed me that the next time the whole family was getting

together was coincidentally, the 4th of July. Stupidly, I changed my plans for

later in the month so that I would not be the one " ruining " the family get

together (I didn't want to deal with my siblings being mad at me). As the 4th

of July approached, I called my mother to firm up plans. I discovered that the

whole family was not going to be together. Later I learned, that my nada had

actually made plans to visit my sister, which she cancelled (my sister is upset

with me). My nada's actions confirmed what I should have suspected all along,

she was simply trying to make me feel guilty for abandoning her/taking sides

with my aunt.

>

> 2) Before leaving on my trip, my nada sent me a Facebook message titled " Honor

Thy Father and Mother " . She told me that she had heard that I said she had

guilted me into changing my 4th of July plans and wanted to assure me that she

would never have done such a thing (if guilt weren't her weapon of choice, why

was the message entitled " Honor they Father and Mother " ?). Though I hadn't used

the words " guilt me into " , I had told my aunt about nada's reaction to my plans.

It seemed strange that my aunt would have told my mother (she is usually very

trustworthy about these things), but I decided not to react to the message at

all; I didn't even mention it to my aunt.

>

> 3) Nada and my dad visited this Saturday, mainly to see my son, their only

grandchild. I thought the visit went well, I tried to avoid controversial

topics and felt that I carefully fielded questions about my trip. I learned

yesterday, that while I avoided a rage, I have become the target of yet another

distortion campaign. You see, I brought back candy from my trip for each member

of my family, 1 pound for each of my siblings (for future reference Bro 1, Bro

2, Sis 1, Sis 2) and 2 pounds for nada (so she can feel special). I gave my mom

her chocolate as well as the chocolate for Sis 2 who still lives in our hometown

(I live 3 hours away, my husband and share one car, and I have an infant, so

travelling " home " is not super-easy right now). I kept the other chocolate

because I thought that I would be seeing most of my other siblings over the next

few weeks for a variety of reasons. Nada has now told Sis 2 that I don't care

about her and that I didn't want to see her because I wanted to deliver everyone

else's candy in person, but not hers. Sis 2 would normally be able to see right

through this, but she happened to break up with her boyfriend this week and is

vulnerable right now, especially to comments that I don't love her, because nada

has been telling her that I never wanted her since she was a little girl

[there's a story behind that as well, but another day].

>

> 4) My aunt called in frustration yesterday after nada blew up at her over the

phone for " not having her back " . Among other things, nada confronted her about

having said that I was guilted into changing my plans. It turns out that my

aunt, who was trying to firm up travel plans with Sis 1, mentioned that nada had

guilted me into changing plans. Sis 1 [who I am concerned is showing BP traits,

but another day] apparently told mom that I told my aunt that I had been guilted

into changing my plans. My aunt wanted to know why my sisters ever believe my

mother or tell her anything when they " know she is crazy " . I tried to explain

that it is very hard not to trust " nice mom " . I am about a decade older than my

sisters, and I know that when I was their age (early to mid twenties) I was

still enmeshed, I wanted to please her, and I was afraid that she was the only

one who would accept me.

>

> The bottom line is that I feel sad almost every time I interact with my FOO.

Even when things go well when I see them face to face, I feel on edge, waiting

to hear the latest distortion campaign. My husband's family is nothing like

this. My dad's extended family isn't like this either. I don't want my family

to be like this.

>

> This is mainly just to vent. My husband listens sympathetically and provides

good advice, but I want to talk to someone who actually knows what it feels like

to have a mother who acts like this. My siblings know, but I can't talk to

them, because they still get wrapped up with her from time to time. If you've

experienced anything like this, please let me know.

>

> Thanks for listening!

>

[Guest guest]

I'm still new to the board, and I'll leave any advice/tips to others, but I just

had to let you know that I literally LOL'ed at some of your descriptions of your

Nada. (Especially about the chocolate) I could have written most of that myself.

It's exhausting maneuvering a relationship with someone with BPD, and sometimes

I forget how much it influences my interactions with other family members, much

in the same way you describe. Just wanted you to know that in absolutely no way

are you alone in this struggle. Best of luck.

>

> I'm new here and there is so much history involved in this most recent

episode, I'm not sure I know which details are most pertinent, so please bear

with me if this is a little long or if it is confusing because of something I

left out.

>

> Background:

>

> 1) My mother hates her FOO and blames them for everything in her life. My dad

completely accepts this view of the world--anything that is wrong with my mother

is not her fault, it is the result of her treatment at the hands of my " evil "

grandmother and " conniving " aunt.

>

> My grandmother was an abusive alcoholic and a pretty lousy mother, but she

stopped drinking decades ago and began taking medication for depression. She

been generous to me and my siblings and I have never heard her say a bad word

about my mother, and haven't witnessed any " bad behavior " from her since I was

12. My aunt never had kids of her own and isn't always able to see the world

from the perspective of someone who has, but she's basically a nice person. She

can be a little bossy (after all, she is an older sister) but the greatest

" sins " I've ever witnessed from her is disagreeing with my mother and allowing

my grandmother to buy her things after she has done something nice for my

grandmother. They live on the other side of the country from us.

>

> 2) My father defends my nada's feelings at all costs. Growing up, he

frequently instructed us that we needed to be kind, considerate, and

understanding towards my mother. That " unlike us " , she wasn't raised in a

loving family and sometimes didn't know how to act. It was important for us to

help " mommy feel good " . My dad frequently traveled and it was my job as the

oldest sibling to pick up the slack when he was gone--caring for nada and doing

any of the parental things she couldn't handle on any particular day, like

assigning chores or bathing babies.

>

> 3) Nada does not respect personal boundaries (she asks inappropriate questions

from her children -- like what color is your pubic hair) and has not handled her

children's transition to adulthood very well.

>

> 4) My mother stirs up animosity between her children, especially between her

daughters. She behaves in paranoid fashion when any combination of her children

get together without her. She frequently talks negatively about her children to

her other children. To avoid an explosion, the safest thing to do is agree with

her, or partially agree with her and that is what most of my siblings do most of

the time. Nada will then twist the words of sibling B and take it back to

sibling A, who will then get mad at sibling B before realizing nada's role.

>

> Recent events:

>

> 1) I decided to take my infant son out to meet my grandmother. She is 87 and

my son is her only great-grandchild. She has been generous to me and I wanted

to do something nice for her and also have pictures to share with my son when he

is older. I also wanted to see my aunt, whose company I have always enjoyed. I

tentatively set up plans with my aunt for the 4th of July weekend and then made

sure to tell nada about my plans before she heard them from my aunt. I told

nada, who told me that I should have told her before considering plans. She

then proceeded to warn me about my aunt and grandmother. The next day, she

called up and informed me that the next time the whole family was getting

together was coincidentally, the 4th of July. Stupidly, I changed my plans for

later in the month so that I would not be the one " ruining " the family get

together (I didn't want to deal with my siblings being mad at me). As the 4th

of July approached, I called my mother to firm up plans. I discovered that the

whole family was not going to be together. Later I learned, that my nada had

actually made plans to visit my sister, which she cancelled (my sister is upset

with me). My nada's actions confirmed what I should have suspected all along,

she was simply trying to make me feel guilty for abandoning her/taking sides

with my aunt.

>

> 2) Before leaving on my trip, my nada sent me a Facebook message titled " Honor

Thy Father and Mother " . She told me that she had heard that I said she had

guilted me into changing my 4th of July plans and wanted to assure me that she

would never have done such a thing (if guilt weren't her weapon of choice, why

was the message entitled " Honor they Father and Mother " ?). Though I hadn't used

the words " guilt me into " , I had told my aunt about nada's reaction to my plans.

It seemed strange that my aunt would have told my mother (she is usually very

trustworthy about these things), but I decided not to react to the message at

all; I didn't even mention it to my aunt.

>

> 3) Nada and my dad visited this Saturday, mainly to see my son, their only

grandchild. I thought the visit went well, I tried to avoid controversial

topics and felt that I carefully fielded questions about my trip. I learned

yesterday, that while I avoided a rage, I have become the target of yet another

distortion campaign. You see, I brought back candy from my trip for each member

of my family, 1 pound for each of my siblings (for future reference Bro 1, Bro

2, Sis 1, Sis 2) and 2 pounds for nada (so she can feel special). I gave my mom

her chocolate as well as the chocolate for Sis 2 who still lives in our hometown

(I live 3 hours away, my husband and share one car, and I have an infant, so

travelling " home " is not super-easy right now). I kept the other chocolate

because I thought that I would be seeing most of my other siblings over the next

few weeks for a variety of reasons. Nada has now told Sis 2 that I don't care

about her and that I didn't want to see her because I wanted to deliver everyone

else's candy in person, but not hers. Sis 2 would normally be able to see right

through this, but she happened to break up with her boyfriend this week and is

vulnerable right now, especially to comments that I don't love her, because nada

has been telling her that I never wanted her since she was a little girl

[there's a story behind that as well, but another day].

>

> 4) My aunt called in frustration yesterday after nada blew up at her over the

phone for " not having her back " . Among other things, nada confronted her about

having said that I was guilted into changing my plans. It turns out that my

aunt, who was trying to firm up travel plans with Sis 1, mentioned that nada had

guilted me into changing plans. Sis 1 [who I am concerned is showing BP traits,

but another day] apparently told mom that I told my aunt that I had been guilted

into changing my plans. My aunt wanted to know why my sisters ever believe my

mother or tell her anything when they " know she is crazy " . I tried to explain

that it is very hard not to trust " nice mom " . I am about a decade older than my

sisters, and I know that when I was their age (early to mid twenties) I was

still enmeshed, I wanted to please her, and I was afraid that she was the only

one who would accept me.

>

> The bottom line is that I feel sad almost every time I interact with my FOO.

Even when things go well when I see them face to face, I feel on edge, waiting

to hear the latest distortion campaign. My husband's family is nothing like

this. My dad's extended family isn't like this either. I don't want my family

to be like this.

>

> This is mainly just to vent. My husband listens sympathetically and provides

good advice, but I want to talk to someone who actually knows what it feels like

to have a mother who acts like this. My siblings know, but I can't talk to

them, because they still get wrapped up with her from time to time. If you've

experienced anything like this, please let me know.

>

> Thanks for listening!

>

[Guest guest]

I'm still new to the board, and I'll leave any advice/tips to others, but I just

had to let you know that I literally LOL'ed at some of your descriptions of your

Nada. (Especially about the chocolate) I could have written most of that myself.

It's exhausting maneuvering a relationship with someone with BPD, and sometimes

I forget how much it influences my interactions with other family members, much

in the same way you describe. Just wanted you to know that in absolutely no way

are you alone in this struggle. Best of luck.

>

> I'm new here and there is so much history involved in this most recent

episode, I'm not sure I know which details are most pertinent, so please bear

with me if this is a little long or if it is confusing because of something I

left out.

>

> Background:

>

> 1) My mother hates her FOO and blames them for everything in her life. My dad

completely accepts this view of the world--anything that is wrong with my mother

is not her fault, it is the result of her treatment at the hands of my " evil "

grandmother and " conniving " aunt.

>

> My grandmother was an abusive alcoholic and a pretty lousy mother, but she

stopped drinking decades ago and began taking medication for depression. She

been generous to me and my siblings and I have never heard her say a bad word

about my mother, and haven't witnessed any " bad behavior " from her since I was

12. My aunt never had kids of her own and isn't always able to see the world

from the perspective of someone who has, but she's basically a nice person. She

can be a little bossy (after all, she is an older sister) but the greatest

" sins " I've ever witnessed from her is disagreeing with my mother and allowing

my grandmother to buy her things after she has done something nice for my

grandmother. They live on the other side of the country from us.

>

> 2) My father defends my nada's feelings at all costs. Growing up, he

frequently instructed us that we needed to be kind, considerate, and

understanding towards my mother. That " unlike us " , she wasn't raised in a

loving family and sometimes didn't know how to act. It was important for us to

help " mommy feel good " . My dad frequently traveled and it was my job as the

oldest sibling to pick up the slack when he was gone--caring for nada and doing

any of the parental things she couldn't handle on any particular day, like

assigning chores or bathing babies.

>

> 3) Nada does not respect personal boundaries (she asks inappropriate questions

from her children -- like what color is your pubic hair) and has not handled her

children's transition to adulthood very well.

>

> 4) My mother stirs up animosity between her children, especially between her

daughters. She behaves in paranoid fashion when any combination of her children

get together without her. She frequently talks negatively about her children to

her other children. To avoid an explosion, the safest thing to do is agree with

her, or partially agree with her and that is what most of my siblings do most of

the time. Nada will then twist the words of sibling B and take it back to

sibling A, who will then get mad at sibling B before realizing nada's role.

>

> Recent events:

>

> 1) I decided to take my infant son out to meet my grandmother. She is 87 and

my son is her only great-grandchild. She has been generous to me and I wanted

to do something nice for her and also have pictures to share with my son when he

is older. I also wanted to see my aunt, whose company I have always enjoyed. I

tentatively set up plans with my aunt for the 4th of July weekend and then made

sure to tell nada about my plans before she heard them from my aunt. I told

nada, who told me that I should have told her before considering plans. She

then proceeded to warn me about my aunt and grandmother. The next day, she

called up and informed me that the next time the whole family was getting

together was coincidentally, the 4th of July. Stupidly, I changed my plans for

later in the month so that I would not be the one " ruining " the family get

together (I didn't want to deal with my siblings being mad at me). As the 4th

of July approached, I called my mother to firm up plans. I discovered that the

whole family was not going to be together. Later I learned, that my nada had

actually made plans to visit my sister, which she cancelled (my sister is upset

with me). My nada's actions confirmed what I should have suspected all along,

she was simply trying to make me feel guilty for abandoning her/taking sides

with my aunt.

>

> 2) Before leaving on my trip, my nada sent me a Facebook message titled " Honor

Thy Father and Mother " . She told me that she had heard that I said she had

guilted me into changing my 4th of July plans and wanted to assure me that she

would never have done such a thing (if guilt weren't her weapon of choice, why

was the message entitled " Honor they Father and Mother " ?). Though I hadn't used

the words " guilt me into " , I had told my aunt about nada's reaction to my plans.

It seemed strange that my aunt would have told my mother (she is usually very

trustworthy about these things), but I decided not to react to the message at

all; I didn't even mention it to my aunt.

>

> 3) Nada and my dad visited this Saturday, mainly to see my son, their only

grandchild. I thought the visit went well, I tried to avoid controversial

topics and felt that I carefully fielded questions about my trip. I learned

yesterday, that while I avoided a rage, I have become the target of yet another

distortion campaign. You see, I brought back candy from my trip for each member

of my family, 1 pound for each of my siblings (for future reference Bro 1, Bro

2, Sis 1, Sis 2) and 2 pounds for nada (so she can feel special). I gave my mom

her chocolate as well as the chocolate for Sis 2 who still lives in our hometown

(I live 3 hours away, my husband and share one car, and I have an infant, so

travelling " home " is not super-easy right now). I kept the other chocolate

because I thought that I would be seeing most of my other siblings over the next

few weeks for a variety of reasons. Nada has now told Sis 2 that I don't care

about her and that I didn't want to see her because I wanted to deliver everyone

else's candy in person, but not hers. Sis 2 would normally be able to see right

through this, but she happened to break up with her boyfriend this week and is

vulnerable right now, especially to comments that I don't love her, because nada

has been telling her that I never wanted her since she was a little girl

[there's a story behind that as well, but another day].

>

> 4) My aunt called in frustration yesterday after nada blew up at her over the

phone for " not having her back " . Among other things, nada confronted her about

having said that I was guilted into changing my plans. It turns out that my

aunt, who was trying to firm up travel plans with Sis 1, mentioned that nada had

guilted me into changing plans. Sis 1 [who I am concerned is showing BP traits,

but another day] apparently told mom that I told my aunt that I had been guilted

into changing my plans. My aunt wanted to know why my sisters ever believe my

mother or tell her anything when they " know she is crazy " . I tried to explain

that it is very hard not to trust " nice mom " . I am about a decade older than my

sisters, and I know that when I was their age (early to mid twenties) I was

still enmeshed, I wanted to please her, and I was afraid that she was the only

one who would accept me.

>

> The bottom line is that I feel sad almost every time I interact with my FOO.

Even when things go well when I see them face to face, I feel on edge, waiting

to hear the latest distortion campaign. My husband's family is nothing like

this. My dad's extended family isn't like this either. I don't want my family

to be like this.

>

> This is mainly just to vent. My husband listens sympathetically and provides

good advice, but I want to talk to someone who actually knows what it feels like

to have a mother who acts like this. My siblings know, but I can't talk to

them, because they still get wrapped up with her from time to time. If you've

experienced anything like this, please let me know.

>

> Thanks for listening!

>

[Guest guest]

Yes. Although my family of origin is small, just my little Sister and me, my

nada would try to pit us against each other. I think that my nada wanted both

Sister and me to have our primary relationship and loyalty to her, not to each

other. She didn't like the idea of us " ganging up " on her, I guess.

(My nada's worst fear has come true: my Sister and I are on the same " team " now

and don't let our mother steamroller over us or pit us against each other any

longer.)

All I can recommend is that you make the effort to develop a closer relationship

and friendship with each of your siblings totally independently of your mother.

Go shopping with one of your siblings, have lunch with another of them, a

weekend with yet another of them, etc., as friends would, don't just interact

with them as part of family events.

This would also mean that from now on, you only communicate your plans directly

to each of your siblings, never through your mother. If you use your nada

( " nada " = not a mom; a bpd mom) as " communication central " then nada will stir up

drama and discord between you and your sibs.

Best of luck to you.

-Annie

>

> I'm new here and there is so much history involved in this most recent

episode, I'm not sure I know which details are most pertinent, so please bear

with me if this is a little long or if it is confusing because of something I

left out.

>

> Background:

>

> 1) My mother hates her FOO and blames them for everything in her life. My dad

completely accepts this view of the world--anything that is wrong with my mother

is not her fault, it is the result of her treatment at the hands of my " evil "

grandmother and " conniving " aunt.

>

> My grandmother was an abusive alcoholic and a pretty lousy mother, but she

stopped drinking decades ago and began taking medication for depression. She

been generous to me and my siblings and I have never heard her say a bad word

about my mother, and haven't witnessed any " bad behavior " from her since I was

12. My aunt never had kids of her own and isn't always able to see the world

from the perspective of someone who has, but she's basically a nice person. She

can be a little bossy (after all, she is an older sister) but the greatest

" sins " I've ever witnessed from her is disagreeing with my mother and allowing

my grandmother to buy her things after she has done something nice for my

grandmother. They live on the other side of the country from us.

>

> 2) My father defends my nada's feelings at all costs. Growing up, he

frequently instructed us that we needed to be kind, considerate, and

understanding towards my mother. That " unlike us " , she wasn't raised in a

loving family and sometimes didn't know how to act. It was important for us to

help " mommy feel good " . My dad frequently traveled and it was my job as the

oldest sibling to pick up the slack when he was gone--caring for nada and doing

any of the parental things she couldn't handle on any particular day, like

assigning chores or bathing babies.

>

> 3) Nada does not respect personal boundaries (she asks inappropriate questions

from her children -- like what color is your pubic hair) and has not handled her

children's transition to adulthood very well.

>

> 4) My mother stirs up animosity between her children, especially between her

daughters. She behaves in paranoid fashion when any combination of her children

get together without her. She frequently talks negatively about her children to

her other children. To avoid an explosion, the safest thing to do is agree with

her, or partially agree with her and that is what most of my siblings do most of

the time. Nada will then twist the words of sibling B and take it back to

sibling A, who will then get mad at sibling B before realizing nada's role.

>

> Recent events:

>

> 1) I decided to take my infant son out to meet my grandmother. She is 87 and

my son is her only great-grandchild. She has been generous to me and I wanted

to do something nice for her and also have pictures to share with my son when he

is older. I also wanted to see my aunt, whose company I have always enjoyed. I

tentatively set up plans with my aunt for the 4th of July weekend and then made

sure to tell nada about my plans before she heard them from my aunt. I told

nada, who told me that I should have told her before considering plans. She

then proceeded to warn me about my aunt and grandmother. The next day, she

called up and informed me that the next time the whole family was getting

together was coincidentally, the 4th of July. Stupidly, I changed my plans for

later in the month so that I would not be the one " ruining " the family get

together (I didn't want to deal with my siblings being mad at me). As the 4th

of July approached, I called my mother to firm up plans. I discovered that the

whole family was not going to be together. Later I learned, that my nada had

actually made plans to visit my sister, which she cancelled (my sister is upset

with me). My nada's actions confirmed what I should have suspected all along,

she was simply trying to make me feel guilty for abandoning her/taking sides

with my aunt.

>

> 2) Before leaving on my trip, my nada sent me a Facebook message titled " Honor

Thy Father and Mother " . She told me that she had heard that I said she had

guilted me into changing my 4th of July plans and wanted to assure me that she

would never have done such a thing (if guilt weren't her weapon of choice, why

was the message entitled " Honor they Father and Mother " ?). Though I hadn't used

the words " guilt me into " , I had told my aunt about nada's reaction to my plans.

It seemed strange that my aunt would have told my mother (she is usually very

trustworthy about these things), but I decided not to react to the message at

all; I didn't even mention it to my aunt.

>

> 3) Nada and my dad visited this Saturday, mainly to see my son, their only

grandchild. I thought the visit went well, I tried to avoid controversial

topics and felt that I carefully fielded questions about my trip. I learned

yesterday, that while I avoided a rage, I have become the target of yet another

distortion campaign. You see, I brought back candy from my trip for each member

of my family, 1 pound for each of my siblings (for future reference Bro 1, Bro

2, Sis 1, Sis 2) and 2 pounds for nada (so she can feel special). I gave my mom

her chocolate as well as the chocolate for Sis 2 who still lives in our hometown

(I live 3 hours away, my husband and share one car, and I have an infant, so

travelling " home " is not super-easy right now). I kept the other chocolate

because I thought that I would be seeing most of my other siblings over the next

few weeks for a variety of reasons. Nada has now told Sis 2 that I don't care

about her and that I didn't want to see her because I wanted to deliver everyone

else's candy in person, but not hers. Sis 2 would normally be able to see right

through this, but she happened to break up with her boyfriend this week and is

vulnerable right now, especially to comments that I don't love her, because nada

has been telling her that I never wanted her since she was a little girl

[there's a story behind that as well, but another day].

>

> 4) My aunt called in frustration yesterday after nada blew up at her over the

phone for " not having her back " . Among other things, nada confronted her about

having said that I was guilted into changing my plans. It turns out that my

aunt, who was trying to firm up travel plans with Sis 1, mentioned that nada had

guilted me into changing plans. Sis 1 [who I am concerned is showing BP traits,

but another day] apparently told mom that I told my aunt that I had been guilted

into changing my plans. My aunt wanted to know why my sisters ever believe my

mother or tell her anything when they " know she is crazy " . I tried to explain

that it is very hard not to trust " nice mom " . I am about a decade older than my

sisters, and I know that when I was their age (early to mid twenties) I was

still enmeshed, I wanted to please her, and I was afraid that she was the only

one who would accept me.

>

> The bottom line is that I feel sad almost every time I interact with my FOO.

Even when things go well when I see them face to face, I feel on edge, waiting

to hear the latest distortion campaign. My husband's family is nothing like

this. My dad's extended family isn't like this either. I don't want my family

to be like this.

>

> This is mainly just to vent. My husband listens sympathetically and provides

good advice, but I want to talk to someone who actually knows what it feels like

to have a mother who acts like this. My siblings know, but I can't talk to

them, because they still get wrapped up with her from time to time. If you've

experienced anything like this, please let me know.

>

> Thanks for listening!

>

[Guest guest]

Yes. Although my family of origin is small, just my little Sister and me, my

nada would try to pit us against each other. I think that my nada wanted both

Sister and me to have our primary relationship and loyalty to her, not to each

other. She didn't like the idea of us " ganging up " on her, I guess.

(My nada's worst fear has come true: my Sister and I are on the same " team " now

and don't let our mother steamroller over us or pit us against each other any

longer.)

All I can recommend is that you make the effort to develop a closer relationship

and friendship with each of your siblings totally independently of your mother.

Go shopping with one of your siblings, have lunch with another of them, a

weekend with yet another of them, etc., as friends would, don't just interact

with them as part of family events.

This would also mean that from now on, you only communicate your plans directly

to each of your siblings, never through your mother. If you use your nada

( " nada " = not a mom; a bpd mom) as " communication central " then nada will stir up

drama and discord between you and your sibs.

Best of luck to you.

-Annie

>

> I'm new here and there is so much history involved in this most recent

episode, I'm not sure I know which details are most pertinent, so please bear

with me if this is a little long or if it is confusing because of something I

left out.

>

> Background:

>

> 1) My mother hates her FOO and blames them for everything in her life. My dad

completely accepts this view of the world--anything that is wrong with my mother

is not her fault, it is the result of her treatment at the hands of my " evil "

grandmother and " conniving " aunt.

>

> My grandmother was an abusive alcoholic and a pretty lousy mother, but she

stopped drinking decades ago and began taking medication for depression. She

been generous to me and my siblings and I have never heard her say a bad word

about my mother, and haven't witnessed any " bad behavior " from her since I was

12. My aunt never had kids of her own and isn't always able to see the world

from the perspective of someone who has, but she's basically a nice person. She

can be a little bossy (after all, she is an older sister) but the greatest

" sins " I've ever witnessed from her is disagreeing with my mother and allowing

my grandmother to buy her things after she has done something nice for my

grandmother. They live on the other side of the country from us.

>

> 2) My father defends my nada's feelings at all costs. Growing up, he

frequently instructed us that we needed to be kind, considerate, and

understanding towards my mother. That " unlike us " , she wasn't raised in a

loving family and sometimes didn't know how to act. It was important for us to

help " mommy feel good " . My dad frequently traveled and it was my job as the

oldest sibling to pick up the slack when he was gone--caring for nada and doing

any of the parental things she couldn't handle on any particular day, like

assigning chores or bathing babies.

>

> 3) Nada does not respect personal boundaries (she asks inappropriate questions

from her children -- like what color is your pubic hair) and has not handled her

children's transition to adulthood very well.

>

> 4) My mother stirs up animosity between her children, especially between her

daughters. She behaves in paranoid fashion when any combination of her children

get together without her. She frequently talks negatively about her children to

her other children. To avoid an explosion, the safest thing to do is agree with

her, or partially agree with her and that is what most of my siblings do most of

the time. Nada will then twist the words of sibling B and take it back to

sibling A, who will then get mad at sibling B before realizing nada's role.

>

> Recent events:

>

> 1) I decided to take my infant son out to meet my grandmother. She is 87 and

my son is her only great-grandchild. She has been generous to me and I wanted

to do something nice for her and also have pictures to share with my son when he

is older. I also wanted to see my aunt, whose company I have always enjoyed. I

tentatively set up plans with my aunt for the 4th of July weekend and then made

sure to tell nada about my plans before she heard them from my aunt. I told

nada, who told me that I should have told her before considering plans. She

then proceeded to warn me about my aunt and grandmother. The next day, she

called up and informed me that the next time the whole family was getting

together was coincidentally, the 4th of July. Stupidly, I changed my plans for

later in the month so that I would not be the one " ruining " the family get

together (I didn't want to deal with my siblings being mad at me). As the 4th

of July approached, I called my mother to firm up plans. I discovered that the

whole family was not going to be together. Later I learned, that my nada had

actually made plans to visit my sister, which she cancelled (my sister is upset

with me). My nada's actions confirmed what I should have suspected all along,

she was simply trying to make me feel guilty for abandoning her/taking sides

with my aunt.

>

> 2) Before leaving on my trip, my nada sent me a Facebook message titled " Honor

Thy Father and Mother " . She told me that she had heard that I said she had

guilted me into changing my 4th of July plans and wanted to assure me that she

would never have done such a thing (if guilt weren't her weapon of choice, why

was the message entitled " Honor they Father and Mother " ?). Though I hadn't used

the words " guilt me into " , I had told my aunt about nada's reaction to my plans.

It seemed strange that my aunt would have told my mother (she is usually very

trustworthy about these things), but I decided not to react to the message at

all; I didn't even mention it to my aunt.

>

> 3) Nada and my dad visited this Saturday, mainly to see my son, their only

grandchild. I thought the visit went well, I tried to avoid controversial

topics and felt that I carefully fielded questions about my trip. I learned

yesterday, that while I avoided a rage, I have become the target of yet another

distortion campaign. You see, I brought back candy from my trip for each member

of my family, 1 pound for each of my siblings (for future reference Bro 1, Bro

2, Sis 1, Sis 2) and 2 pounds for nada (so she can feel special). I gave my mom

her chocolate as well as the chocolate for Sis 2 who still lives in our hometown

(I live 3 hours away, my husband and share one car, and I have an infant, so

travelling " home " is not super-easy right now). I kept the other chocolate

because I thought that I would be seeing most of my other siblings over the next

few weeks for a variety of reasons. Nada has now told Sis 2 that I don't care

about her and that I didn't want to see her because I wanted to deliver everyone

else's candy in person, but not hers. Sis 2 would normally be able to see right

through this, but she happened to break up with her boyfriend this week and is

vulnerable right now, especially to comments that I don't love her, because nada

has been telling her that I never wanted her since she was a little girl

[there's a story behind that as well, but another day].

>

> 4) My aunt called in frustration yesterday after nada blew up at her over the

phone for " not having her back " . Among other things, nada confronted her about

having said that I was guilted into changing my plans. It turns out that my

aunt, who was trying to firm up travel plans with Sis 1, mentioned that nada had

guilted me into changing plans. Sis 1 [who I am concerned is showing BP traits,

but another day] apparently told mom that I told my aunt that I had been guilted

into changing my plans. My aunt wanted to know why my sisters ever believe my

mother or tell her anything when they " know she is crazy " . I tried to explain

that it is very hard not to trust " nice mom " . I am about a decade older than my

sisters, and I know that when I was their age (early to mid twenties) I was

still enmeshed, I wanted to please her, and I was afraid that she was the only

one who would accept me.

>

> The bottom line is that I feel sad almost every time I interact with my FOO.

Even when things go well when I see them face to face, I feel on edge, waiting

to hear the latest distortion campaign. My husband's family is nothing like

this. My dad's extended family isn't like this either. I don't want my family

to be like this.

>

> This is mainly just to vent. My husband listens sympathetically and provides

good advice, but I want to talk to someone who actually knows what it feels like

to have a mother who acts like this. My siblings know, but I can't talk to

them, because they still get wrapped up with her from time to time. If you've

experienced anything like this, please let me know.

>

> Thanks for listening!

>

[Guest guest]

yep, I can really sense your frustration.

I realized reading this that the foo bpd stuff is why i feel I have to make

long explanations of everything that was stated and everything that happened to

make explicitly certain everyone will understand what went on. I never realized

this before. I have done this in the past and have been told that when people

make long explanations people generally assume that they are not telling the

full truth or are shading things a certain way. but I've noticed initial posts

here seem to many times be very detailed like this, because we are so used to

having to defend ourselves.

Families can definitely change over generations. One child can be targeted by a

predator outside the family that isn't interested in the other children and this

can warp a child without the immediate family being involved. An active

alcoholic can be a demon on the earth but be a gentle soul when sober. So there

are lots of conditions that could have taken place. Your mom may resent your

sister if she wasn't targeted or was a favored child so that may be why your

mother casts aspersions on her. I am not defending any of it, I am saying that

since you weren't there you will NEVER know what the conditions of her family

were and what the dynamics were the produced her bpd. My grandmother is someone

that was very important in my life but my father tells a different story. He

allowed her to be part of our lives (she is non-histrionic and was actually very

stoic and rarely spoke so that is probably why) but I think his experience as a

child was drastically different than what we experienced as her grandchildren,

especially with the conditions of her marriage, her husband being alive (he died

when I was young) and being a controlling idiot who wouldn't allow her to pick

furniture, paint colors, or anything else in her home because it was 'his

money', and so on. I can only imagine what her life was like then. In any case,

he's been a malignant narcissist his entire life and will probably die that way.

It's really sad. Certainly understanding what happened to him isn't going to

change his behavior now, he's not fixable, probably not even by himself.

But all that certainly sounds like typical bpd shenanigans. Hugs!

>

> I'm new here and there is so much history involved in this most recent

episode, I'm not sure I know which details are most pertinent, so please bear

with me if this is a little long or if it is confusing because of something I

left out.

>

> Background:

>

> 1) My mother hates her FOO and blames them for everything in her life. My dad

completely accepts this view of the world--anything that is wrong with my mother

is not her fault, it is the result of her treatment at the hands of my " evil "

grandmother and " conniving " aunt.

>

> My grandmother was an abusive alcoholic and a pretty lousy mother, but she

stopped drinking decades ago and began taking medication for depression. She

been generous to me and my siblings and I have never heard her say a bad word

about my mother, and haven't witnessed any " bad behavior " from her since I was

12. My aunt never had kids of her own and isn't always able to see the world

from the perspective of someone who has, but she's basically a nice person. She

can be a little bossy (after all, she is an older sister) but the greatest

" sins " I've ever witnessed from her is disagreeing with my mother and allowing

my grandmother to buy her things after she has done something nice for my

grandmother. They live on the other side of the country from us.

>

> 2) My father defends my nada's feelings at all costs. Growing up, he

frequently instructed us that we needed to be kind, considerate, and

understanding towards my mother. That " unlike us " , she wasn't raised in a

loving family and sometimes didn't know how to act. It was important for us to

help " mommy feel good " . My dad frequently traveled and it was my job as the

oldest sibling to pick up the slack when he was gone--caring for nada and doing

any of the parental things she couldn't handle on any particular day, like

assigning chores or bathing babies.

>

> 3) Nada does not respect personal boundaries (she asks inappropriate questions

from her children -- like what color is your pubic hair) and has not handled her

children's transition to adulthood very well.

>

> 4) My mother stirs up animosity between her children, especially between her

daughters. She behaves in paranoid fashion when any combination of her children

get together without her. She frequently talks negatively about her children to

her other children. To avoid an explosion, the safest thing to do is agree with

her, or partially agree with her and that is what most of my siblings do most of

the time. Nada will then twist the words of sibling B and take it back to

sibling A, who will then get mad at sibling B before realizing nada's role.

>

> Recent events:

>

> 1) I decided to take my infant son out to meet my grandmother. She is 87 and

my son is her only great-grandchild. She has been generous to me and I wanted

to do something nice for her and also have pictures to share with my son when he

is older. I also wanted to see my aunt, whose company I have always enjoyed. I

tentatively set up plans with my aunt for the 4th of July weekend and then made

sure to tell nada about my plans before she heard them from my aunt. I told

nada, who told me that I should have told her before considering plans. She

then proceeded to warn me about my aunt and grandmother. The next day, she

called up and informed me that the next time the whole family was getting

together was coincidentally, the 4th of July. Stupidly, I changed my plans for

later in the month so that I would not be the one " ruining " the family get

together (I didn't want to deal with my siblings being mad at me). As the 4th

of July approached, I called my mother to firm up plans. I discovered that the

whole family was not going to be together. Later I learned, that my nada had

actually made plans to visit my sister, which she cancelled (my sister is upset

with me). My nada's actions confirmed what I should have suspected all along,

she was simply trying to make me feel guilty for abandoning her/taking sides

with my aunt.

>

> 2) Before leaving on my trip, my nada sent me a Facebook message titled " Honor

Thy Father and Mother " . She told me that she had heard that I said she had

guilted me into changing my 4th of July plans and wanted to assure me that she

would never have done such a thing (if guilt weren't her weapon of choice, why

was the message entitled " Honor they Father and Mother " ?). Though I hadn't used

the words " guilt me into " , I had told my aunt about nada's reaction to my plans.

It seemed strange that my aunt would have told my mother (she is usually very

trustworthy about these things), but I decided not to react to the message at

all; I didn't even mention it to my aunt.

>

> 3) Nada and my dad visited this Saturday, mainly to see my son, their only

grandchild. I thought the visit went well, I tried to avoid controversial

topics and felt that I carefully fielded questions about my trip. I learned

yesterday, that while I avoided a rage, I have become the target of yet another

distortion campaign. You see, I brought back candy from my trip for each member

of my family, 1 pound for each of my siblings (for future reference Bro 1, Bro

2, Sis 1, Sis 2) and 2 pounds for nada (so she can feel special). I gave my mom

her chocolate as well as the chocolate for Sis 2 who still lives in our hometown

(I live 3 hours away, my husband and share one car, and I have an infant, so

travelling " home " is not super-easy right now). I kept the other chocolate

because I thought that I would be seeing most of my other siblings over the next

few weeks for a variety of reasons. Nada has now told Sis 2 that I don't care

about her and that I didn't want to see her because I wanted to deliver everyone

else's candy in person, but not hers. Sis 2 would normally be able to see right

through this, but she happened to break up with her boyfriend this week and is

vulnerable right now, especially to comments that I don't love her, because nada

has been telling her that I never wanted her since she was a little girl

[there's a story behind that as well, but another day].

>

> 4) My aunt called in frustration yesterday after nada blew up at her over the

phone for " not having her back " . Among other things, nada confronted her about

having said that I was guilted into changing my plans. It turns out that my

aunt, who was trying to firm up travel plans with Sis 1, mentioned that nada had

guilted me into changing plans. Sis 1 [who I am concerned is showing BP traits,

but another day] apparently told mom that I told my aunt that I had been guilted

into changing my plans. My aunt wanted to know why my sisters ever believe my

mother or tell her anything when they " know she is crazy " . I tried to explain

that it is very hard not to trust " nice mom " . I am about a decade older than my

sisters, and I know that when I was their age (early to mid twenties) I was

still enmeshed, I wanted to please her, and I was afraid that she was the only

one who would accept me.

>

> The bottom line is that I feel sad almost every time I interact with my FOO.

Even when things go well when I see them face to face, I feel on edge, waiting

to hear the latest distortion campaign. My husband's family is nothing like

this. My dad's extended family isn't like this either. I don't want my family

to be like this.

>

> This is mainly just to vent. My husband listens sympathetically and provides

good advice, but I want to talk to someone who actually knows what it feels like

to have a mother who acts like this. My siblings know, but I can't talk to

them, because they still get wrapped up with her from time to time. If you've

experienced anything like this, please let me know.

>

> Thanks for listening!

>

[Guest guest]

Wow. That is a case-study in BPD and the ensuing horrible chaos. Yuck.

Sounds like nada still has tight reins on everyone in the family. She certainly

is able orchestrate whatever dynamic she wants, isn't she?

None of this is your fault. Going out to see your 87 year old grandma is a

completely normal, natural thing to do. And, if my kids want to go see my nada

as grown-ups (I've been NC for 2 years now) than I will send them with warnings

and my blessings. I won't try to stop them, and will probably even encourage

it. Yes, she's insane. But she is a biological link to them, and they can

certainly choose to know her, good or bad.

Taht choice was manipulated (with prejudice) away from you. Yuck again.

So . . . it's not you. it's not you. it's not you.

p.s. My mother's favorite tagline/excuse for her abuse and toxic crazymaking

was " Honor your father and mother! " That sure brought back memories.

Blessings,

Karla

>

> I'm new here and there is so much history involved in this most recent

episode, I'm not sure I know which details are most pertinent, so please bear

with me if this is a little long or if it is confusing because of something I

left out.

>

> Background:

>

> 1) My mother hates her FOO and blames them for everything in her life. My dad

completely accepts this view of the world--anything that is wrong with my mother

is not her fault, it is the result of her treatment at the hands of my " evil "

grandmother and " conniving " aunt.

>

> My grandmother was an abusive alcoholic and a pretty lousy mother, but she

stopped drinking decades ago and began taking medication for depression. She

been generous to me and my siblings and I have never heard her say a bad word

about my mother, and haven't witnessed any " bad behavior " from her since I was

12. My aunt never had kids of her own and isn't always able to see the world

from the perspective of someone who has, but she's basically a nice person. She

can be a little bossy (after all, she is an older sister) but the greatest

" sins " I've ever witnessed from her is disagreeing with my mother and allowing

my grandmother to buy her things after she has done something nice for my

grandmother. They live on the other side of the country from us.

>

> 2) My father defends my nada's feelings at all costs. Growing up, he

frequently instructed us that we needed to be kind, considerate, and

understanding towards my mother. That " unlike us " , she wasn't raised in a

loving family and sometimes didn't know how to act. It was important for us to

help " mommy feel good " . My dad frequently traveled and it was my job as the

oldest sibling to pick up the slack when he was gone--caring for nada and doing

any of the parental things she couldn't handle on any particular day, like

assigning chores or bathing babies.

>

> 3) Nada does not respect personal boundaries (she asks inappropriate questions

from her children -- like what color is your pubic hair) and has not handled her

children's transition to adulthood very well.

>

> 4) My mother stirs up animosity between her children, especially between her

daughters. She behaves in paranoid fashion when any combination of her children

get together without her. She frequently talks negatively about her children to

her other children. To avoid an explosion, the safest thing to do is agree with

her, or partially agree with her and that is what most of my siblings do most of

the time. Nada will then twist the words of sibling B and take it back to

sibling A, who will then get mad at sibling B before realizing nada's role.

>

> Recent events:

>

> 1) I decided to take my infant son out to meet my grandmother. She is 87 and

my son is her only great-grandchild. She has been generous to me and I wanted

to do something nice for her and also have pictures to share with my son when he

is older. I also wanted to see my aunt, whose company I have always enjoyed. I

tentatively set up plans with my aunt for the 4th of July weekend and then made

sure to tell nada about my plans before she heard them from my aunt. I told

nada, who told me that I should have told her before considering plans. She

then proceeded to warn me about my aunt and grandmother. The next day, she

called up and informed me that the next time the whole family was getting

together was coincidentally, the 4th of July. Stupidly, I changed my plans for

later in the month so that I would not be the one " ruining " the family get

together (I didn't want to deal with my siblings being mad at me). As the 4th

of July approached, I called my mother to firm up plans. I discovered that the

whole family was not going to be together. Later I learned, that my nada had

actually made plans to visit my sister, which she cancelled (my sister is upset

with me). My nada's actions confirmed what I should have suspected all along,

she was simply trying to make me feel guilty for abandoning her/taking sides

with my aunt.

>

> 2) Before leaving on my trip, my nada sent me a Facebook message titled " Honor

Thy Father and Mother " . She told me that she had heard that I said she had

guilted me into changing my 4th of July plans and wanted to assure me that she

would never have done such a thing (if guilt weren't her weapon of choice, why

was the message entitled " Honor they Father and Mother " ?). Though I hadn't used

the words " guilt me into " , I had told my aunt about nada's reaction to my plans.

It seemed strange that my aunt would have told my mother (she is usually very

trustworthy about these things), but I decided not to react to the message at

all; I didn't even mention it to my aunt.

>

> 3) Nada and my dad visited this Saturday, mainly to see my son, their only

grandchild. I thought the visit went well, I tried to avoid controversial

topics and felt that I carefully fielded questions about my trip. I learned

yesterday, that while I avoided a rage, I have become the target of yet another

distortion campaign. You see, I brought back candy from my trip for each member

of my family, 1 pound for each of my siblings (for future reference Bro 1, Bro

2, Sis 1, Sis 2) and 2 pounds for nada (so she can feel special). I gave my mom

her chocolate as well as the chocolate for Sis 2 who still lives in our hometown

(I live 3 hours away, my husband and share one car, and I have an infant, so

travelling " home " is not super-easy right now). I kept the other chocolate

because I thought that I would be seeing most of my other siblings over the next

few weeks for a variety of reasons. Nada has now told Sis 2 that I don't care

about her and that I didn't want to see her because I wanted to deliver everyone

else's candy in person, but not hers. Sis 2 would normally be able to see right

through this, but she happened to break up with her boyfriend this week and is

vulnerable right now, especially to comments that I don't love her, because nada

has been telling her that I never wanted her since she was a little girl

[there's a story behind that as well, but another day].

>

> 4) My aunt called in frustration yesterday after nada blew up at her over the

phone for " not having her back " . Among other things, nada confronted her about

having said that I was guilted into changing my plans. It turns out that my

aunt, who was trying to firm up travel plans with Sis 1, mentioned that nada had

guilted me into changing plans. Sis 1 [who I am concerned is showing BP traits,

but another day] apparently told mom that I told my aunt that I had been guilted

into changing my plans. My aunt wanted to know why my sisters ever believe my

mother or tell her anything when they " know she is crazy " . I tried to explain

that it is very hard not to trust " nice mom " . I am about a decade older than my

sisters, and I know that when I was their age (early to mid twenties) I was

still enmeshed, I wanted to please her, and I was afraid that she was the only

one who would accept me.

>

> The bottom line is that I feel sad almost every time I interact with my FOO.

Even when things go well when I see them face to face, I feel on edge, waiting

to hear the latest distortion campaign. My husband's family is nothing like

this. My dad's extended family isn't like this either. I don't want my family

to be like this.

>

> This is mainly just to vent. My husband listens sympathetically and provides

good advice, but I want to talk to someone who actually knows what it feels like

to have a mother who acts like this. My siblings know, but I can't talk to

them, because they still get wrapped up with her from time to time. If you've

experienced anything like this, please let me know.

>

> Thanks for listening!

>

[Guest guest]

Wow. That is a case-study in BPD and the ensuing horrible chaos. Yuck.

Sounds like nada still has tight reins on everyone in the family. She certainly

is able orchestrate whatever dynamic she wants, isn't she?

None of this is your fault. Going out to see your 87 year old grandma is a

completely normal, natural thing to do. And, if my kids want to go see my nada

as grown-ups (I've been NC for 2 years now) than I will send them with warnings

and my blessings. I won't try to stop them, and will probably even encourage

it. Yes, she's insane. But she is a biological link to them, and they can

certainly choose to know her, good or bad.

Taht choice was manipulated (with prejudice) away from you. Yuck again.

So . . . it's not you. it's not you. it's not you.

p.s. My mother's favorite tagline/excuse for her abuse and toxic crazymaking

was " Honor your father and mother! " That sure brought back memories.

Blessings,

Karla

>

> I'm new here and there is so much history involved in this most recent

episode, I'm not sure I know which details are most pertinent, so please bear

with me if this is a little long or if it is confusing because of something I

left out.

>

> Background:

>

> 1) My mother hates her FOO and blames them for everything in her life. My dad

completely accepts this view of the world--anything that is wrong with my mother

is not her fault, it is the result of her treatment at the hands of my " evil "

grandmother and " conniving " aunt.

>

> My grandmother was an abusive alcoholic and a pretty lousy mother, but she

stopped drinking decades ago and began taking medication for depression. She

been generous to me and my siblings and I have never heard her say a bad word

about my mother, and haven't witnessed any " bad behavior " from her since I was

12. My aunt never had kids of her own and isn't always able to see the world

from the perspective of someone who has, but she's basically a nice person. She

can be a little bossy (after all, she is an older sister) but the greatest

" sins " I've ever witnessed from her is disagreeing with my mother and allowing

my grandmother to buy her things after she has done something nice for my

grandmother. They live on the other side of the country from us.

>

> 2) My father defends my nada's feelings at all costs. Growing up, he

frequently instructed us that we needed to be kind, considerate, and

understanding towards my mother. That " unlike us " , she wasn't raised in a

loving family and sometimes didn't know how to act. It was important for us to

help " mommy feel good " . My dad frequently traveled and it was my job as the

oldest sibling to pick up the slack when he was gone--caring for nada and doing

any of the parental things she couldn't handle on any particular day, like

assigning chores or bathing babies.

>

> 3) Nada does not respect personal boundaries (she asks inappropriate questions

from her children -- like what color is your pubic hair) and has not handled her

children's transition to adulthood very well.

>

> 4) My mother stirs up animosity between her children, especially between her

daughters. She behaves in paranoid fashion when any combination of her children

get together without her. She frequently talks negatively about her children to

her other children. To avoid an explosion, the safest thing to do is agree with

her, or partially agree with her and that is what most of my siblings do most of

the time. Nada will then twist the words of sibling B and take it back to

sibling A, who will then get mad at sibling B before realizing nada's role.

>

> Recent events:

>

> 1) I decided to take my infant son out to meet my grandmother. She is 87 and

my son is her only great-grandchild. She has been generous to me and I wanted

to do something nice for her and also have pictures to share with my son when he

is older. I also wanted to see my aunt, whose company I have always enjoyed. I

tentatively set up plans with my aunt for the 4th of July weekend and then made

sure to tell nada about my plans before she heard them from my aunt. I told

nada, who told me that I should have told her before considering plans. She

then proceeded to warn me about my aunt and grandmother. The next day, she

called up and informed me that the next time the whole family was getting

together was coincidentally, the 4th of July. Stupidly, I changed my plans for

later in the month so that I would not be the one " ruining " the family get

together (I didn't want to deal with my siblings being mad at me). As the 4th

of July approached, I called my mother to firm up plans. I discovered that the

whole family was not going to be together. Later I learned, that my nada had

actually made plans to visit my sister, which she cancelled (my sister is upset

with me). My nada's actions confirmed what I should have suspected all along,

she was simply trying to make me feel guilty for abandoning her/taking sides

with my aunt.

>

> 2) Before leaving on my trip, my nada sent me a Facebook message titled " Honor

Thy Father and Mother " . She told me that she had heard that I said she had

guilted me into changing my 4th of July plans and wanted to assure me that she

would never have done such a thing (if guilt weren't her weapon of choice, why

was the message entitled " Honor they Father and Mother " ?). Though I hadn't used

the words " guilt me into " , I had told my aunt about nada's reaction to my plans.

It seemed strange that my aunt would have told my mother (she is usually very

trustworthy about these things), but I decided not to react to the message at

all; I didn't even mention it to my aunt.

>

> 3) Nada and my dad visited this Saturday, mainly to see my son, their only

grandchild. I thought the visit went well, I tried to avoid controversial

topics and felt that I carefully fielded questions about my trip. I learned

yesterday, that while I avoided a rage, I have become the target of yet another

distortion campaign. You see, I brought back candy from my trip for each member

of my family, 1 pound for each of my siblings (for future reference Bro 1, Bro

2, Sis 1, Sis 2) and 2 pounds for nada (so she can feel special). I gave my mom

her chocolate as well as the chocolate for Sis 2 who still lives in our hometown

(I live 3 hours away, my husband and share one car, and I have an infant, so

travelling " home " is not super-easy right now). I kept the other chocolate

because I thought that I would be seeing most of my other siblings over the next

few weeks for a variety of reasons. Nada has now told Sis 2 that I don't care

about her and that I didn't want to see her because I wanted to deliver everyone

else's candy in person, but not hers. Sis 2 would normally be able to see right

through this, but she happened to break up with her boyfriend this week and is

vulnerable right now, especially to comments that I don't love her, because nada

has been telling her that I never wanted her since she was a little girl

[there's a story behind that as well, but another day].

>

> 4) My aunt called in frustration yesterday after nada blew up at her over the

phone for " not having her back " . Among other things, nada confronted her about

having said that I was guilted into changing my plans. It turns out that my

aunt, who was trying to firm up travel plans with Sis 1, mentioned that nada had

guilted me into changing plans. Sis 1 [who I am concerned is showing BP traits,

but another day] apparently told mom that I told my aunt that I had been guilted

into changing my plans. My aunt wanted to know why my sisters ever believe my

mother or tell her anything when they " know she is crazy " . I tried to explain

that it is very hard not to trust " nice mom " . I am about a decade older than my

sisters, and I know that when I was their age (early to mid twenties) I was

still enmeshed, I wanted to please her, and I was afraid that she was the only

one who would accept me.

>

> The bottom line is that I feel sad almost every time I interact with my FOO.

Even when things go well when I see them face to face, I feel on edge, waiting

to hear the latest distortion campaign. My husband's family is nothing like

this. My dad's extended family isn't like this either. I don't want my family

to be like this.

>

> This is mainly just to vent. My husband listens sympathetically and provides

good advice, but I want to talk to someone who actually knows what it feels like

to have a mother who acts like this. My siblings know, but I can't talk to

them, because they still get wrapped up with her from time to time. If you've

experienced anything like this, please let me know.

>

> Thanks for listening!

>

[Guest guest]

Wow. That is a case-study in BPD and the ensuing horrible chaos. Yuck.

Sounds like nada still has tight reins on everyone in the family. She certainly

is able orchestrate whatever dynamic she wants, isn't she?

None of this is your fault. Going out to see your 87 year old grandma is a

completely normal, natural thing to do. And, if my kids want to go see my nada

as grown-ups (I've been NC for 2 years now) than I will send them with warnings

and my blessings. I won't try to stop them, and will probably even encourage

it. Yes, she's insane. But she is a biological link to them, and they can

certainly choose to know her, good or bad.

Taht choice was manipulated (with prejudice) away from you. Yuck again.

So . . . it's not you. it's not you. it's not you.

p.s. My mother's favorite tagline/excuse for her abuse and toxic crazymaking

was " Honor your father and mother! " That sure brought back memories.

Blessings,

Karla

>

> I'm new here and there is so much history involved in this most recent

episode, I'm not sure I know which details are most pertinent, so please bear

with me if this is a little long or if it is confusing because of something I

left out.

>

> Background:

>

> 1) My mother hates her FOO and blames them for everything in her life. My dad

completely accepts this view of the world--anything that is wrong with my mother

is not her fault, it is the result of her treatment at the hands of my " evil "

grandmother and " conniving " aunt.

>

> My grandmother was an abusive alcoholic and a pretty lousy mother, but she

stopped drinking decades ago and began taking medication for depression. She

been generous to me and my siblings and I have never heard her say a bad word

about my mother, and haven't witnessed any " bad behavior " from her since I was

12. My aunt never had kids of her own and isn't always able to see the world

from the perspective of someone who has, but she's basically a nice person. She

can be a little bossy (after all, she is an older sister) but the greatest

" sins " I've ever witnessed from her is disagreeing with my mother and allowing

my grandmother to buy her things after she has done something nice for my

grandmother. They live on the other side of the country from us.

>

> 2) My father defends my nada's feelings at all costs. Growing up, he

frequently instructed us that we needed to be kind, considerate, and

understanding towards my mother. That " unlike us " , she wasn't raised in a

loving family and sometimes didn't know how to act. It was important for us to

help " mommy feel good " . My dad frequently traveled and it was my job as the

oldest sibling to pick up the slack when he was gone--caring for nada and doing

any of the parental things she couldn't handle on any particular day, like

assigning chores or bathing babies.

>

> 3) Nada does not respect personal boundaries (she asks inappropriate questions

from her children -- like what color is your pubic hair) and has not handled her

children's transition to adulthood very well.

>

> 4) My mother stirs up animosity between her children, especially between her

daughters. She behaves in paranoid fashion when any combination of her children

get together without her. She frequently talks negatively about her children to

her other children. To avoid an explosion, the safest thing to do is agree with

her, or partially agree with her and that is what most of my siblings do most of

the time. Nada will then twist the words of sibling B and take it back to

sibling A, who will then get mad at sibling B before realizing nada's role.

>

> Recent events:

>

> 1) I decided to take my infant son out to meet my grandmother. She is 87 and

my son is her only great-grandchild. She has been generous to me and I wanted

to do something nice for her and also have pictures to share with my son when he

is older. I also wanted to see my aunt, whose company I have always enjoyed. I

tentatively set up plans with my aunt for the 4th of July weekend and then made

sure to tell nada about my plans before she heard them from my aunt. I told

nada, who told me that I should have told her before considering plans. She

then proceeded to warn me about my aunt and grandmother. The next day, she

called up and informed me that the next time the whole family was getting

together was coincidentally, the 4th of July. Stupidly, I changed my plans for

later in the month so that I would not be the one " ruining " the family get

together (I didn't want to deal with my siblings being mad at me). As the 4th

of July approached, I called my mother to firm up plans. I discovered that the

whole family was not going to be together. Later I learned, that my nada had

actually made plans to visit my sister, which she cancelled (my sister is upset

with me). My nada's actions confirmed what I should have suspected all along,

she was simply trying to make me feel guilty for abandoning her/taking sides

with my aunt.

>

> 2) Before leaving on my trip, my nada sent me a Facebook message titled " Honor

Thy Father and Mother " . She told me that she had heard that I said she had

guilted me into changing my 4th of July plans and wanted to assure me that she

would never have done such a thing (if guilt weren't her weapon of choice, why

was the message entitled " Honor they Father and Mother " ?). Though I hadn't used

the words " guilt me into " , I had told my aunt about nada's reaction to my plans.

It seemed strange that my aunt would have told my mother (she is usually very

trustworthy about these things), but I decided not to react to the message at

all; I didn't even mention it to my aunt.

>

> 3) Nada and my dad visited this Saturday, mainly to see my son, their only

grandchild. I thought the visit went well, I tried to avoid controversial

topics and felt that I carefully fielded questions about my trip. I learned

yesterday, that while I avoided a rage, I have become the target of yet another

distortion campaign. You see, I brought back candy from my trip for each member

of my family, 1 pound for each of my siblings (for future reference Bro 1, Bro

2, Sis 1, Sis 2) and 2 pounds for nada (so she can feel special). I gave my mom

her chocolate as well as the chocolate for Sis 2 who still lives in our hometown

(I live 3 hours away, my husband and share one car, and I have an infant, so

travelling " home " is not super-easy right now). I kept the other chocolate

because I thought that I would be seeing most of my other siblings over the next

few weeks for a variety of reasons. Nada has now told Sis 2 that I don't care

about her and that I didn't want to see her because I wanted to deliver everyone

else's candy in person, but not hers. Sis 2 would normally be able to see right

through this, but she happened to break up with her boyfriend this week and is

vulnerable right now, especially to comments that I don't love her, because nada

has been telling her that I never wanted her since she was a little girl

[there's a story behind that as well, but another day].

>

> 4) My aunt called in frustration yesterday after nada blew up at her over the

phone for " not having her back " . Among other things, nada confronted her about

having said that I was guilted into changing my plans. It turns out that my

aunt, who was trying to firm up travel plans with Sis 1, mentioned that nada had

guilted me into changing plans. Sis 1 [who I am concerned is showing BP traits,

but another day] apparently told mom that I told my aunt that I had been guilted

into changing my plans. My aunt wanted to know why my sisters ever believe my

mother or tell her anything when they " know she is crazy " . I tried to explain

that it is very hard not to trust " nice mom " . I am about a decade older than my

sisters, and I know that when I was their age (early to mid twenties) I was

still enmeshed, I wanted to please her, and I was afraid that she was the only

one who would accept me.

>

> The bottom line is that I feel sad almost every time I interact with my FOO.

Even when things go well when I see them face to face, I feel on edge, waiting

to hear the latest distortion campaign. My husband's family is nothing like

this. My dad's extended family isn't like this either. I don't want my family

to be like this.

>

> This is mainly just to vent. My husband listens sympathetically and provides

good advice, but I want to talk to someone who actually knows what it feels like

to have a mother who acts like this. My siblings know, but I can't talk to

them, because they still get wrapped up with her from time to time. If you've

experienced anything like this, please let me know.

>

> Thanks for listening!

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, and the situation seems very familiar and bpd, and I am glad you are here

to see you are in no way alone. I'd also echo comments made about long

explanations - in that I always felt I had to defend and explain the truly

irrational behavior so folks who urged me to suck it up and " honor " my nada

would understand the situation or latest behavior.

It is hard to try over and over to please unreasonable people and be told you

are the one that has the problem, when really, your nada's mental illness is the

problem and your reaction to it is normal. That is Oz life...

Hang in there and keep talking it out. You don't need a " family " that doesn't

treat you with respect, so concentrate on the good stuff and walk away

from/redirect as much of the manipulation as you can. You may become more

practiced at diffusing your Nada's power in difficult situations like the one

you describe, but consider a lower contact option in the future if you always

have anxiety with the FOO.

>

> I'm new here and there is so much history involved in this most recent

episode, I'm not sure I know which details are most pertinent, so please bear

with me if this is a little long or if it is confusing because of something I

left out.

>

> Background:

>

> 1) My mother hates her FOO and blames them for everything in her life. My dad

completely accepts this view of the world--anything that is wrong with my mother

is not her fault, it is the result of her treatment at the hands of my " evil "

grandmother and " conniving " aunt.

>

> My grandmother was an abusive alcoholic and a pretty lousy mother, but she

stopped drinking decades ago and began taking medication for depression. She

been generous to me and my siblings and I have never heard her say a bad word

about my mother, and haven't witnessed any " bad behavior " from her since I was

12. My aunt never had kids of her own and isn't always able to see the world

from the perspective of someone who has, but she's basically a nice person. She

can be a little bossy (after all, she is an older sister) but the greatest

" sins " I've ever witnessed from her is disagreeing with my mother and allowing

my grandmother to buy her things after she has done something nice for my

grandmother. They live on the other side of the country from us.

>

> 2) My father defends my nada's feelings at all costs. Growing up, he

frequently instructed us that we needed to be kind, considerate, and

understanding towards my mother. That " unlike us " , she wasn't raised in a

loving family and sometimes didn't know how to act. It was important for us to

help " mommy feel good " . My dad frequently traveled and it was my job as the

oldest sibling to pick up the slack when he was gone--caring for nada and doing

any of the parental things she couldn't handle on any particular day, like

assigning chores or bathing babies.

>

> 3) Nada does not respect personal boundaries (she asks inappropriate questions

from her children -- like what color is your pubic hair) and has not handled her

children's transition to adulthood very well.

>

> 4) My mother stirs up animosity between her children, especially between her

daughters. She behaves in paranoid fashion when any combination of her children

get together without her. She frequently talks negatively about her children to

her other children. To avoid an explosion, the safest thing to do is agree with

her, or partially agree with her and that is what most of my siblings do most of

the time. Nada will then twist the words of sibling B and take it back to

sibling A, who will then get mad at sibling B before realizing nada's role.

>

> Recent events:

>

> 1) I decided to take my infant son out to meet my grandmother. She is 87 and

my son is her only great-grandchild. She has been generous to me and I wanted

to do something nice for her and also have pictures to share with my son when he

is older. I also wanted to see my aunt, whose company I have always enjoyed. I

tentatively set up plans with my aunt for the 4th of July weekend and then made

sure to tell nada about my plans before she heard them from my aunt. I told

nada, who told me that I should have told her before considering plans. She

then proceeded to warn me about my aunt and grandmother. The next day, she

called up and informed me that the next time the whole family was getting

together was coincidentally, the 4th of July. Stupidly, I changed my plans for

later in the month so that I would not be the one " ruining " the family get

together (I didn't want to deal with my siblings being mad at me). As the 4th

of July approached, I called my mother to firm up plans. I discovered that the

whole family was not going to be together. Later I learned, that my nada had

actually made plans to visit my sister, which she cancelled (my sister is upset

with me). My nada's actions confirmed what I should have suspected all along,

she was simply trying to make me feel guilty for abandoning her/taking sides

with my aunt.

>

> 2) Before leaving on my trip, my nada sent me a Facebook message titled " Honor

Thy Father and Mother " . She told me that she had heard that I said she had

guilted me into changing my 4th of July plans and wanted to assure me that she

would never have done such a thing (if guilt weren't her weapon of choice, why

was the message entitled " Honor they Father and Mother " ?). Though I hadn't used

the words " guilt me into " , I had told my aunt about nada's reaction to my plans.

It seemed strange that my aunt would have told my mother (she is usually very

trustworthy about these things), but I decided not to react to the message at

all; I didn't even mention it to my aunt.

>

> 3) Nada and my dad visited this Saturday, mainly to see my son, their only

grandchild. I thought the visit went well, I tried to avoid controversial

topics and felt that I carefully fielded questions about my trip. I learned

yesterday, that while I avoided a rage, I have become the target of yet another

distortion campaign. You see, I brought back candy from my trip for each member

of my family, 1 pound for each of my siblings (for future reference Bro 1, Bro

2, Sis 1, Sis 2) and 2 pounds for nada (so she can feel special). I gave my mom

her chocolate as well as the chocolate for Sis 2 who still lives in our hometown

(I live 3 hours away, my husband and share one car, and I have an infant, so

travelling " home " is not super-easy right now). I kept the other chocolate

because I thought that I would be seeing most of my other siblings over the next

few weeks for a variety of reasons. Nada has now told Sis 2 that I don't care

about her and that I didn't want to see her because I wanted to deliver everyone

else's candy in person, but not hers. Sis 2 would normally be able to see right

through this, but she happened to break up with her boyfriend this week and is

vulnerable right now, especially to comments that I don't love her, because nada

has been telling her that I never wanted her since she was a little girl

[there's a story behind that as well, but another day].

>

> 4) My aunt called in frustration yesterday after nada blew up at her over the

phone for " not having her back " . Among other things, nada confronted her about

having said that I was guilted into changing my plans. It turns out that my

aunt, who was trying to firm up travel plans with Sis 1, mentioned that nada had

guilted me into changing plans. Sis 1 [who I am concerned is showing BP traits,

but another day] apparently told mom that I told my aunt that I had been guilted

into changing my plans. My aunt wanted to know why my sisters ever believe my

mother or tell her anything when they " know she is crazy " . I tried to explain

that it is very hard not to trust " nice mom " . I am about a decade older than my

sisters, and I know that when I was their age (early to mid twenties) I was

still enmeshed, I wanted to please her, and I was afraid that she was the only

one who would accept me.

>

> The bottom line is that I feel sad almost every time I interact with my FOO.

Even when things go well when I see them face to face, I feel on edge, waiting

to hear the latest distortion campaign. My husband's family is nothing like

this. My dad's extended family isn't like this either. I don't want my family

to be like this.

>

> This is mainly just to vent. My husband listens sympathetically and provides

good advice, but I want to talk to someone who actually knows what it feels like

to have a mother who acts like this. My siblings know, but I can't talk to

them, because they still get wrapped up with her from time to time. If you've

experienced anything like this, please let me know.

>

> Thanks for listening!

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, and the situation seems very familiar and bpd, and I am glad you are here

to see you are in no way alone. I'd also echo comments made about long

explanations - in that I always felt I had to defend and explain the truly

irrational behavior so folks who urged me to suck it up and " honor " my nada

would understand the situation or latest behavior.

It is hard to try over and over to please unreasonable people and be told you

are the one that has the problem, when really, your nada's mental illness is the

problem and your reaction to it is normal. That is Oz life...

Hang in there and keep talking it out. You don't need a " family " that doesn't

treat you with respect, so concentrate on the good stuff and walk away

from/redirect as much of the manipulation as you can. You may become more

practiced at diffusing your Nada's power in difficult situations like the one

you describe, but consider a lower contact option in the future if you always

have anxiety with the FOO.

>

> I'm new here and there is so much history involved in this most recent

episode, I'm not sure I know which details are most pertinent, so please bear

with me if this is a little long or if it is confusing because of something I

left out.

>

> Background:

>

> 1) My mother hates her FOO and blames them for everything in her life. My dad

completely accepts this view of the world--anything that is wrong with my mother

is not her fault, it is the result of her treatment at the hands of my " evil "

grandmother and " conniving " aunt.

>

> My grandmother was an abusive alcoholic and a pretty lousy mother, but she

stopped drinking decades ago and began taking medication for depression. She

been generous to me and my siblings and I have never heard her say a bad word

about my mother, and haven't witnessed any " bad behavior " from her since I was

12. My aunt never had kids of her own and isn't always able to see the world

from the perspective of someone who has, but she's basically a nice person. She

can be a little bossy (after all, she is an older sister) but the greatest

" sins " I've ever witnessed from her is disagreeing with my mother and allowing

my grandmother to buy her things after she has done something nice for my

grandmother. They live on the other side of the country from us.

>

> 2) My father defends my nada's feelings at all costs. Growing up, he

frequently instructed us that we needed to be kind, considerate, and

understanding towards my mother. That " unlike us " , she wasn't raised in a

loving family and sometimes didn't know how to act. It was important for us to

help " mommy feel good " . My dad frequently traveled and it was my job as the

oldest sibling to pick up the slack when he was gone--caring for nada and doing

any of the parental things she couldn't handle on any particular day, like

assigning chores or bathing babies.

>

> 3) Nada does not respect personal boundaries (she asks inappropriate questions

from her children -- like what color is your pubic hair) and has not handled her

children's transition to adulthood very well.

>

> 4) My mother stirs up animosity between her children, especially between her

daughters. She behaves in paranoid fashion when any combination of her children

get together without her. She frequently talks negatively about her children to

her other children. To avoid an explosion, the safest thing to do is agree with

her, or partially agree with her and that is what most of my siblings do most of

the time. Nada will then twist the words of sibling B and take it back to

sibling A, who will then get mad at sibling B before realizing nada's role.

>

> Recent events:

>

> 1) I decided to take my infant son out to meet my grandmother. She is 87 and

my son is her only great-grandchild. She has been generous to me and I wanted

to do something nice for her and also have pictures to share with my son when he

is older. I also wanted to see my aunt, whose company I have always enjoyed. I

tentatively set up plans with my aunt for the 4th of July weekend and then made

sure to tell nada about my plans before she heard them from my aunt. I told

nada, who told me that I should have told her before considering plans. She

then proceeded to warn me about my aunt and grandmother. The next day, she

called up and informed me that the next time the whole family was getting

together was coincidentally, the 4th of July. Stupidly, I changed my plans for

later in the month so that I would not be the one " ruining " the family get

together (I didn't want to deal with my siblings being mad at me). As the 4th

of July approached, I called my mother to firm up plans. I discovered that the

whole family was not going to be together. Later I learned, that my nada had

actually made plans to visit my sister, which she cancelled (my sister is upset

with me). My nada's actions confirmed what I should have suspected all along,

she was simply trying to make me feel guilty for abandoning her/taking sides

with my aunt.

>

> 2) Before leaving on my trip, my nada sent me a Facebook message titled " Honor

Thy Father and Mother " . She told me that she had heard that I said she had

guilted me into changing my 4th of July plans and wanted to assure me that she

would never have done such a thing (if guilt weren't her weapon of choice, why

was the message entitled " Honor they Father and Mother " ?). Though I hadn't used

the words " guilt me into " , I had told my aunt about nada's reaction to my plans.

It seemed strange that my aunt would have told my mother (she is usually very

trustworthy about these things), but I decided not to react to the message at

all; I didn't even mention it to my aunt.

>

> 3) Nada and my dad visited this Saturday, mainly to see my son, their only

grandchild. I thought the visit went well, I tried to avoid controversial

topics and felt that I carefully fielded questions about my trip. I learned

yesterday, that while I avoided a rage, I have become the target of yet another

distortion campaign. You see, I brought back candy from my trip for each member

of my family, 1 pound for each of my siblings (for future reference Bro 1, Bro

2, Sis 1, Sis 2) and 2 pounds for nada (so she can feel special). I gave my mom

her chocolate as well as the chocolate for Sis 2 who still lives in our hometown

(I live 3 hours away, my husband and share one car, and I have an infant, so

travelling " home " is not super-easy right now). I kept the other chocolate

because I thought that I would be seeing most of my other siblings over the next

few weeks for a variety of reasons. Nada has now told Sis 2 that I don't care

about her and that I didn't want to see her because I wanted to deliver everyone

else's candy in person, but not hers. Sis 2 would normally be able to see right

through this, but she happened to break up with her boyfriend this week and is

vulnerable right now, especially to comments that I don't love her, because nada

has been telling her that I never wanted her since she was a little girl

[there's a story behind that as well, but another day].

>

> 4) My aunt called in frustration yesterday after nada blew up at her over the

phone for " not having her back " . Among other things, nada confronted her about

having said that I was guilted into changing my plans. It turns out that my

aunt, who was trying to firm up travel plans with Sis 1, mentioned that nada had

guilted me into changing plans. Sis 1 [who I am concerned is showing BP traits,

but another day] apparently told mom that I told my aunt that I had been guilted

into changing my plans. My aunt wanted to know why my sisters ever believe my

mother or tell her anything when they " know she is crazy " . I tried to explain

that it is very hard not to trust " nice mom " . I am about a decade older than my

sisters, and I know that when I was their age (early to mid twenties) I was

still enmeshed, I wanted to please her, and I was afraid that she was the only

one who would accept me.

>

> The bottom line is that I feel sad almost every time I interact with my FOO.

Even when things go well when I see them face to face, I feel on edge, waiting

to hear the latest distortion campaign. My husband's family is nothing like

this. My dad's extended family isn't like this either. I don't want my family

to be like this.

>

> This is mainly just to vent. My husband listens sympathetically and provides

good advice, but I want to talk to someone who actually knows what it feels like

to have a mother who acts like this. My siblings know, but I can't talk to

them, because they still get wrapped up with her from time to time. If you've

experienced anything like this, please let me know.

>

> Thanks for listening!

>

[Guest guest]

>

> 3) Nada does not respect personal boundaries (she asks inappropriate questions

from her children -- like what color is your pubic hair) and has not handled her

children's transition to adulthood very well.

>

Wow, she asked? Mine would just barge in the bathroom while I was taking a

shower!

Yes, your post is very similar to things I have experienced. You are not alone

here.

[Guest guest]

Hi McSmitty,

Absolutely, yes, I have experienced the following that you shared:

* My mother also hates her FOO. From when I was very young, she would tell me

about them (they live in another country), almost as though she were telling me

about a mythic character. As I got older, the shine wore off their legends and

she began telling me how this one did her wrong, that one does this, etc. Every

month, we would call her mother and sisters to say hello. Every time, she would

" brief " me on what topics were safe to talk about and on the landmines. It was

terrifying for me. I felt like I was talking a hostage-taker into giving up and

if I said the wrong thing, disaster would take place. So...I have no

relationship with my FOO. I really have no family. Just my mother and my

brother. Anytime my mother has been wronged by them, she makes it clear that it

is a wrong against US. I'm afraid to have contact with them because 1) what if

she's right and they are all as wacky as she is and 2) I really don't want to

deal with the repercussions of consorting with the enemy

* My mother doesn't respect personal boundaries either. Now she does more b/c

I'm older and can reject her if she does it, but when we were younger and say I

was sitting with my legs crossed, she'd say " this is how your [private part]

looks right now. " And then she'd contort her mouth in a freakish way. I could

go on but...why??

* Has not handled her children's transition to adulthood very well. Yes, my

mother as well. That's an understatement. I'm not really sure she accepts that

we ARE adults!

* This one really resonated with me: " My mother stirs up animosity between her

children, especially between her daughters. She behaves in paranoid fashion when

any combination of her children get together without her. She frequently talks

negatively about her children to her other children. To avoid an explosion, the

safest thing to do is agree with her, or partially agree with her and that is

what most of my siblings do most of the time. Nada will then twist the words of

sibling B and take it back to sibling A, who will then get mad at sibling B

before realizing nada's role. " I deal with this on an almost weekly basis:

Wow. This is us. Unbelievable. And in a weird way, I feel such relief I'm not

the only one!! Like on Sunday, I go to visit with my daughter. I left after an

hour, b/c I really didn't want to stay long, for my sanity. So as soon as I

leave, I know my mother's ruminating and trying to figure out why I left early.

The next day, she puts on her " I know how hard you work, dear " voice (she

reminds me so much of the mother from Everybody Loves ) and went on, " I

said to your brother (aka The Flying Monkey), 'oh poor girl works so hard and

had to run home to do laundry and cook!' " I know what she wanted was for me to

open up and defend myself, 'no that's not it at all, blah blah' but nowadays I

just let her go on and make up whatever stories comfort her. It's not that

important anymore. THEN, my brother calls me at work. " listen, i'm really sorry

i didn't hang out in the livingroom with you and mom. " (he'd gone into the

bedroom to be on his computer.) And I know my mother probably speculated that

I'd left quickly b/c I was offended at his doing that. Sigh. It's just tiring,

all the guessing and tiptoeing.

Yup, yours sounds like mine. Either ultra-enmeshed or isolated and avoiding

people.

My daughter will say things like " how come we just do things with daddy's

family? " I really don't know what to tell her without getting into too much

detail or sounding crazy.

I hear what you're saying re: wanting to open up more with your siblings. I wish

I could, too, but my brother just doesn't really seem to see what I see or he

makes excuses for my mother.

Anyway, all that to say, yup you're not alone!!

Take good care,

Fiona

> >

> > I'm new here and there is so much history involved in this most recent

episode, I'm not sure I know which details are most pertinent, so please bear

with me if this is a little long or if it is confusing because of something I

left out.

> >

> > Background:

> >

> > 1) My mother hates her FOO and blames them for everything in her life. My

dad completely accepts this view of the world--anything that is wrong with my

mother is not her fault, it is the result of her treatment at the hands of my

" evil " grandmother and " conniving " aunt.

> >

> > My grandmother was an abusive alcoholic and a pretty lousy mother, but she

stopped drinking decades ago and began taking medication for depression. She

been generous to me and my siblings and I have never heard her say a bad word

about my mother, and haven't witnessed any " bad behavior " from her since I was

12. My aunt never had kids of her own and isn't always able to see the world

from the perspective of someone who has, but she's basically a nice person. She

can be a little bossy (after all, she is an older sister) but the greatest

" sins " I've ever witnessed from her is disagreeing with my mother and allowing

my grandmother to buy her things after she has done something nice for my

grandmother. They live on the other side of the country from us.

> >

> > 2) My father defends my nada's feelings at all costs. Growing up, he

frequently instructed us that we needed to be kind, considerate, and

understanding towards my mother. That " unlike us " , she wasn't raised in a

loving family and sometimes didn't know how to act. It was important for us to

help " mommy feel good " . My dad frequently traveled and it was my job as the

oldest sibling to pick up the slack when he was gone--caring for nada and doing

any of the parental things she couldn't handle on any particular day, like

assigning chores or bathing babies.

> >

> > 3) Nada does not respect personal boundaries (she asks inappropriate

questions from her children -- like what color is your pubic hair) and has not

handled her children's transition to adulthood very well.

> >

> > 4) My mother stirs up animosity between her children, especially between her

daughters. She behaves in paranoid fashion when any combination of her children

get together without her. She frequently talks negatively about her children to

her other children. To avoid an explosion, the safest thing to do is agree with

her, or partially agree with her and that is what most of my siblings do most of

the time. Nada will then twist the words of sibling B and take it back to

sibling A, who will then get mad at sibling B before realizing nada's role.

> >

> > Recent events:

> >

> > 1) I decided to take my infant son out to meet my grandmother. She is 87

and my son is her only great-grandchild. She has been generous to me and I

wanted to do something nice for her and also have pictures to share with my son

when he is older. I also wanted to see my aunt, whose company I have always

enjoyed. I tentatively set up plans with my aunt for the 4th of July weekend and

then made sure to tell nada about my plans before she heard them from my aunt. I

told nada, who told me that I should have told her before considering plans.

She then proceeded to warn me about my aunt and grandmother. The next day, she

called up and informed me that the next time the whole family was getting

together was coincidentally, the 4th of July. Stupidly, I changed my plans for

later in the month so that I would not be the one " ruining " the family get

together (I didn't want to deal with my siblings being mad at me). As the 4th

of July approached, I called my mother to firm up plans. I discovered that the

whole family was not going to be together. Later I learned, that my nada had

actually made plans to visit my sister, which she cancelled (my sister is upset

with me). My nada's actions confirmed what I should have suspected all along,

she was simply trying to make me feel guilty for abandoning her/taking sides

with my aunt.

> >

> > 2) Before leaving on my trip, my nada sent me a Facebook message titled

" Honor Thy Father and Mother " . She told me that she had heard that I said she

had guilted me into changing my 4th of July plans and wanted to assure me that

she would never have done such a thing (if guilt weren't her weapon of choice,

why was the message entitled " Honor they Father and Mother " ?). Though I hadn't

used the words " guilt me into " , I had told my aunt about nada's reaction to my

plans. It seemed strange that my aunt would have told my mother (she is usually

very trustworthy about these things), but I decided not to react to the message

at all; I didn't even mention it to my aunt.

> >

> > 3) Nada and my dad visited this Saturday, mainly to see my son, their only

grandchild. I thought the visit went well, I tried to avoid controversial

topics and felt that I carefully fielded questions about my trip. I learned

yesterday, that while I avoided a rage, I have become the target of yet another

distortion campaign. You see, I brought back candy from my trip for each member

of my family, 1 pound for each of my siblings (for future reference Bro 1, Bro

2, Sis 1, Sis 2) and 2 pounds for nada (so she can feel special). I gave my mom

her chocolate as well as the chocolate for Sis 2 who still lives in our hometown

(I live 3 hours away, my husband and share one car, and I have an infant, so

travelling " home " is not super-easy right now). I kept the other chocolate

because I thought that I would be seeing most of my other siblings over the next

few weeks for a variety of reasons. Nada has now told Sis 2 that I don't care

about her and that I didn't want to see her because I wanted to deliver everyone

else's candy in person, but not hers. Sis 2 would normally be able to see right

through this, but she happened to break up with her boyfriend this week and is

vulnerable right now, especially to comments that I don't love her, because nada

has been telling her that I never wanted her since she was a little girl

[there's a story behind that as well, but another day].

> >

> > 4) My aunt called in frustration yesterday after nada blew up at her over

the phone for " not having her back " . Among other things, nada confronted her

about having said that I was guilted into changing my plans. It turns out that

my aunt, who was trying to firm up travel plans with Sis 1, mentioned that nada

had guilted me into changing plans. Sis 1 [who I am concerned is showing BP

traits, but another day] apparently told mom that I told my aunt that I had been

guilted into changing my plans. My aunt wanted to know why my sisters ever

believe my mother or tell her anything when they " know she is crazy " . I tried

to explain that it is very hard not to trust " nice mom " . I am about a decade

older than my sisters, and I know that when I was their age (early to mid

twenties) I was still enmeshed, I wanted to please her, and I was afraid that

she was the only one who would accept me.

> >

> > The bottom line is that I feel sad almost every time I interact with my FOO.

Even when things go well when I see them face to face, I feel on edge, waiting

to hear the latest distortion campaign. My husband's family is nothing like

this. My dad's extended family isn't like this either. I don't want my family

to be like this.

> >

> > This is mainly just to vent. My husband listens sympathetically and

provides good advice, but I want to talk to someone who actually knows what it

feels like to have a mother who acts like this. My siblings know, but I can't

talk to them, because they still get wrapped up with her from time to time. If

you've experienced anything like this, please let me know.

> >

> > Thanks for listening!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks everyone! It feels so much better to be able to talk about it with

people who can relate. As love.ducks said, it is " exhausting maneuvering a

relationship with someone with BPD, " .

Annie, I really appreciate your advice on strengthening my relationships with my

siblings individually, I'll try to do that. Being the only child in the family

who is married with a child and living in another state has made it difficult to

see people except during family get togethers, but if I care about the

relationships, I need to make a greater effort to reach out to them without

nada.

Fiona, I could totally relate to your story about your visit with your

nada/brother. Just yesterday I got a message from Sis 1 explaining that she

hadn't been avoiding me, and if I really needed a response I should have tried

more ways to contact her. I had mentioned to nada that I was trying to make

plans with Sis 1, but hadn't heard back yet. I'm guessing nada contacted her

and said " your sister thinks you're avoiding her. " Ugh!!! It makes me want to

scream, " I'm not mom! I didn't automatically assume you were avoiding me. " Oh

well.

phine, I know nada does resent her sister for being " the favored one " , but

I'm not sure she was, at least not the extent she claims. I have reason to

believe nada started disassociating long ago. Either way, nada had a terrible

childhood, but if i blame her childhood for her behavior, what is to stop me

from excusing myself the same way?

Everyone, I'll try to cut down on the long explanations. I guess I just feel

like its such a web of interconnected dysfunction that it's hard to isolate one

instance from the rest.

[Guest guest]

Thanks everyone! It feels so much better to be able to talk about it with

people who can relate. As love.ducks said, it is " exhausting maneuvering a

relationship with someone with BPD, " .

Annie, I really appreciate your advice on strengthening my relationships with my

siblings individually, I'll try to do that. Being the only child in the family

who is married with a child and living in another state has made it difficult to

see people except during family get togethers, but if I care about the

relationships, I need to make a greater effort to reach out to them without

nada.

Fiona, I could totally relate to your story about your visit with your

nada/brother. Just yesterday I got a message from Sis 1 explaining that she

hadn't been avoiding me, and if I really needed a response I should have tried

more ways to contact her. I had mentioned to nada that I was trying to make

plans with Sis 1, but hadn't heard back yet. I'm guessing nada contacted her

and said " your sister thinks you're avoiding her. " Ugh!!! It makes me want to

scream, " I'm not mom! I didn't automatically assume you were avoiding me. " Oh

well.

phine, I know nada does resent her sister for being " the favored one " , but

I'm not sure she was, at least not the extent she claims. I have reason to

believe nada started disassociating long ago. Either way, nada had a terrible

childhood, but if i blame her childhood for her behavior, what is to stop me

from excusing myself the same way?

Everyone, I'll try to cut down on the long explanations. I guess I just feel

like its such a web of interconnected dysfunction that it's hard to isolate one

instance from the rest.

[Guest guest]

Thanks everyone! It feels so much better to be able to talk about it with

people who can relate. As love.ducks said, it is " exhausting maneuvering a

relationship with someone with BPD, " .

Annie, I really appreciate your advice on strengthening my relationships with my

siblings individually, I'll try to do that. Being the only child in the family

who is married with a child and living in another state has made it difficult to

see people except during family get togethers, but if I care about the

relationships, I need to make a greater effort to reach out to them without

nada.

Fiona, I could totally relate to your story about your visit with your

nada/brother. Just yesterday I got a message from Sis 1 explaining that she

hadn't been avoiding me, and if I really needed a response I should have tried

more ways to contact her. I had mentioned to nada that I was trying to make

plans with Sis 1, but hadn't heard back yet. I'm guessing nada contacted her

and said " your sister thinks you're avoiding her. " Ugh!!! It makes me want to

scream, " I'm not mom! I didn't automatically assume you were avoiding me. " Oh

well.

phine, I know nada does resent her sister for being " the favored one " , but

I'm not sure she was, at least not the extent she claims. I have reason to

believe nada started disassociating long ago. Either way, nada had a terrible

childhood, but if i blame her childhood for her behavior, what is to stop me

from excusing myself the same way?

Everyone, I'll try to cut down on the long explanations. I guess I just feel

like its such a web of interconnected dysfunction that it's hard to isolate one

instance from the rest.