Re: got you till age six, own you for life

[Guest guest]

I would say just what you said. I would act as if you agree with her and

then say something like " anytime one person uses another person to fulfill

there personal needs and wants by manipulation, instilling fear in them, or

guilt..it's wrong mom. Thouigh she may not realize you mean her!

Once my mother and I were driving she was talking about my brother and what

a looser he turned out to be how be (in her opinion) what a " donkey " he

is (a word she's always called my brother in our language) I just said you

know Children believe and live up to what there parents tell them If you

say he's a Donkey then that's what he's become..just what you expect him to

be.

Her head just whipped around at me she didn't know what to say it wasn't

like we were fighting...Then I just changed the subject like nothing ever

happened,

Stefanie

>

>

> So I just wanted to float this little conversational snippet by you guys

> and get some reactions. So my nada has always been very anti-religion

> especially organized religion, especially Catholic. Ever since I was little

> I can remember that when the subject of Catholics came up she would always

> say - like a broken record - about how the Jesuits had a saying about " give

> me a child till he's age six and he's mine for life " . She'd say this with a

> dramatic flair like ooooo, look how psycho those Jesuits were brainwashing

> those little kids, oh the horror!

>

> But here I'd be having felt controlled, smothered, and more brainwashed

> than I knew from the beginning hearing her say this...and feeling sick. And

> I still feel sick every time she says it. She said it today.

>

> I've decided I want a really good come back next time she says it -

> something that will answer the passive-aggressive implication in her

> statement which is " I own your ass " . I'd like to say yeah what that saying

> refers to is a sin, owning another human being is slavery and wrong. Just

> something to really answer the subtle message.

>

> Thoughts? And would this scenario squick any of you guys out or am I being

> oversensitive?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

> P.S. - no offense meant to Catholics or Jesuits here...I'm not even sure

> that saying was ever said by anybody outside of fiction, it was in Shogun I

> think.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I would say just what you said. I would act as if you agree with her and

then say something like " anytime one person uses another person to fulfill

there personal needs and wants by manipulation, instilling fear in them, or

guilt..it's wrong mom. Thouigh she may not realize you mean her!

Once my mother and I were driving she was talking about my brother and what

a looser he turned out to be how be (in her opinion) what a " donkey " he

is (a word she's always called my brother in our language) I just said you

know Children believe and live up to what there parents tell them If you

say he's a Donkey then that's what he's become..just what you expect him to

be.

Her head just whipped around at me she didn't know what to say it wasn't

like we were fighting...Then I just changed the subject like nothing ever

happened,

Stefanie

>

>

> So I just wanted to float this little conversational snippet by you guys

> and get some reactions. So my nada has always been very anti-religion

> especially organized religion, especially Catholic. Ever since I was little

> I can remember that when the subject of Catholics came up she would always

> say - like a broken record - about how the Jesuits had a saying about " give

> me a child till he's age six and he's mine for life " . She'd say this with a

> dramatic flair like ooooo, look how psycho those Jesuits were brainwashing

> those little kids, oh the horror!

>

> But here I'd be having felt controlled, smothered, and more brainwashed

> than I knew from the beginning hearing her say this...and feeling sick. And

> I still feel sick every time she says it. She said it today.

>

> I've decided I want a really good come back next time she says it -

> something that will answer the passive-aggressive implication in her

> statement which is " I own your ass " . I'd like to say yeah what that saying

> refers to is a sin, owning another human being is slavery and wrong. Just

> something to really answer the subtle message.

>

> Thoughts? And would this scenario squick any of you guys out or am I being

> oversensitive?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

> P.S. - no offense meant to Catholics or Jesuits here...I'm not even sure

> that saying was ever said by anybody outside of fiction, it was in Shogun I

> think.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I would say just what you said. I would act as if you agree with her and

then say something like " anytime one person uses another person to fulfill

there personal needs and wants by manipulation, instilling fear in them, or

guilt..it's wrong mom. Thouigh she may not realize you mean her!

Once my mother and I were driving she was talking about my brother and what

a looser he turned out to be how be (in her opinion) what a " donkey " he

is (a word she's always called my brother in our language) I just said you

know Children believe and live up to what there parents tell them If you

say he's a Donkey then that's what he's become..just what you expect him to

be.

Her head just whipped around at me she didn't know what to say it wasn't

like we were fighting...Then I just changed the subject like nothing ever

happened,

Stefanie

>

>

> So I just wanted to float this little conversational snippet by you guys

> and get some reactions. So my nada has always been very anti-religion

> especially organized religion, especially Catholic. Ever since I was little

> I can remember that when the subject of Catholics came up she would always

> say - like a broken record - about how the Jesuits had a saying about " give

> me a child till he's age six and he's mine for life " . She'd say this with a

> dramatic flair like ooooo, look how psycho those Jesuits were brainwashing

> those little kids, oh the horror!

>

> But here I'd be having felt controlled, smothered, and more brainwashed

> than I knew from the beginning hearing her say this...and feeling sick. And

> I still feel sick every time she says it. She said it today.

>

> I've decided I want a really good come back next time she says it -

> something that will answer the passive-aggressive implication in her

> statement which is " I own your ass " . I'd like to say yeah what that saying

> refers to is a sin, owning another human being is slavery and wrong. Just

> something to really answer the subtle message.

>

> Thoughts? And would this scenario squick any of you guys out or am I being

> oversensitive?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

> P.S. - no offense meant to Catholics or Jesuits here...I'm not even sure

> that saying was ever said by anybody outside of fiction, it was in Shogun I

> think.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with your idea and 's: just agree with her. Maybe you could

say, " Well, mom; if anyone can confirm that that's true, it's you. " or even more

briefly, " Well, you would know. "

I used the same " agreeing " technique on my nada who kept pointing out a

particular physical flaw of mine (that she thinks we share) even though I'd

asked her literally dozens of times to please not do that. I can't do anything

about this flaw and being told that its not attractive (again and again) just

makes me feel sad and self-conscious. So finally out of pure frustration I

agreed with her (in a mildly sarcastic way) and the sarcasm finally penetrated

where simply asking her (or even begging her) to please stop went ignored. She

finally " heard " me.

As an aside, I recently had a face-to-face visit with nada that I couldn't

avoid; I needed to attend a family function. I have been Very Low Contact

(virtually no contact) with her for the last couple of years. But I determined

to be pleasant and polite so as to make the visit not about me but about

supporting my Sister and her family. I was surprised and pleased that nada

appeared determined to be pleasant and polite herself, but when she and I were

seated together at the end of a row, nada made a point of mentioning this flaw,

again. I guess she hauls out this particular barb when she's angry at me but

being passive-aggressive about it. (I call those " stealth insults " .) So due to

the circumstances of a solemn ceremony about to commence and the seating being

reserved, instead of responding to the comment I just stared at her silently

until she looked away.

(It never ceases to amaze me that the nadas posted about here have so many

unpleasant behavioral traits in common.)

-Annie

>

> So I just wanted to float this little conversational snippet by you guys and

get some reactions. So my nada has always been very anti-religion especially

organized religion, especially Catholic. Ever since I was little I can remember

that when the subject of Catholics came up she would always say - like a broken

record - about how the Jesuits had a saying about " give me a child till he's age

six and he's mine for life " . She'd say this with a dramatic flair like ooooo,

look how psycho those Jesuits were brainwashing those little kids, oh the

horror!

>

> But here I'd be having felt controlled, smothered, and more brainwashed than I

knew from the beginning hearing her say this...and feeling sick. And I still

feel sick every time she says it. She said it today.

>

> I've decided I want a really good come back next time she says it - something

that will answer the passive-aggressive implication in her statement which is " I

own your ass " . I'd like to say yeah what that saying refers to is a sin,

owning another human being is slavery and wrong. Just something to really

answer the subtle message.

>

> Thoughts? And would this scenario squick any of you guys out or am I being

oversensitive?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

> P.S. - no offense meant to Catholics or Jesuits here...I'm not even sure that

saying was ever said by anybody outside of fiction, it was in Shogun I think.

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with your idea and 's: just agree with her. Maybe you could

say, " Well, mom; if anyone can confirm that that's true, it's you. " or even more

briefly, " Well, you would know. "

I used the same " agreeing " technique on my nada who kept pointing out a

particular physical flaw of mine (that she thinks we share) even though I'd

asked her literally dozens of times to please not do that. I can't do anything

about this flaw and being told that its not attractive (again and again) just

makes me feel sad and self-conscious. So finally out of pure frustration I

agreed with her (in a mildly sarcastic way) and the sarcasm finally penetrated

where simply asking her (or even begging her) to please stop went ignored. She

finally " heard " me.

As an aside, I recently had a face-to-face visit with nada that I couldn't

avoid; I needed to attend a family function. I have been Very Low Contact

(virtually no contact) with her for the last couple of years. But I determined

to be pleasant and polite so as to make the visit not about me but about

supporting my Sister and her family. I was surprised and pleased that nada

appeared determined to be pleasant and polite herself, but when she and I were

seated together at the end of a row, nada made a point of mentioning this flaw,

again. I guess she hauls out this particular barb when she's angry at me but

being passive-aggressive about it. (I call those " stealth insults " .) So due to

the circumstances of a solemn ceremony about to commence and the seating being

reserved, instead of responding to the comment I just stared at her silently

until she looked away.

(It never ceases to amaze me that the nadas posted about here have so many

unpleasant behavioral traits in common.)

-Annie

>

> So I just wanted to float this little conversational snippet by you guys and

get some reactions. So my nada has always been very anti-religion especially

organized religion, especially Catholic. Ever since I was little I can remember

that when the subject of Catholics came up she would always say - like a broken

record - about how the Jesuits had a saying about " give me a child till he's age

six and he's mine for life " . She'd say this with a dramatic flair like ooooo,

look how psycho those Jesuits were brainwashing those little kids, oh the

horror!

>

> But here I'd be having felt controlled, smothered, and more brainwashed than I

knew from the beginning hearing her say this...and feeling sick. And I still

feel sick every time she says it. She said it today.

>

> I've decided I want a really good come back next time she says it - something

that will answer the passive-aggressive implication in her statement which is " I

own your ass " . I'd like to say yeah what that saying refers to is a sin,

owning another human being is slavery and wrong. Just something to really

answer the subtle message.

>

> Thoughts? And would this scenario squick any of you guys out or am I being

oversensitive?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

> P.S. - no offense meant to Catholics or Jesuits here...I'm not even sure that

saying was ever said by anybody outside of fiction, it was in Shogun I think.

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with your idea and 's: just agree with her. Maybe you could

say, " Well, mom; if anyone can confirm that that's true, it's you. " or even more

briefly, " Well, you would know. "

I used the same " agreeing " technique on my nada who kept pointing out a

particular physical flaw of mine (that she thinks we share) even though I'd

asked her literally dozens of times to please not do that. I can't do anything

about this flaw and being told that its not attractive (again and again) just

makes me feel sad and self-conscious. So finally out of pure frustration I

agreed with her (in a mildly sarcastic way) and the sarcasm finally penetrated

where simply asking her (or even begging her) to please stop went ignored. She

finally " heard " me.

As an aside, I recently had a face-to-face visit with nada that I couldn't

avoid; I needed to attend a family function. I have been Very Low Contact

(virtually no contact) with her for the last couple of years. But I determined

to be pleasant and polite so as to make the visit not about me but about

supporting my Sister and her family. I was surprised and pleased that nada

appeared determined to be pleasant and polite herself, but when she and I were

seated together at the end of a row, nada made a point of mentioning this flaw,

again. I guess she hauls out this particular barb when she's angry at me but

being passive-aggressive about it. (I call those " stealth insults " .) So due to

the circumstances of a solemn ceremony about to commence and the seating being

reserved, instead of responding to the comment I just stared at her silently

until she looked away.

(It never ceases to amaze me that the nadas posted about here have so many

unpleasant behavioral traits in common.)

-Annie

>

> So I just wanted to float this little conversational snippet by you guys and

get some reactions. So my nada has always been very anti-religion especially

organized religion, especially Catholic. Ever since I was little I can remember

that when the subject of Catholics came up she would always say - like a broken

record - about how the Jesuits had a saying about " give me a child till he's age

six and he's mine for life " . She'd say this with a dramatic flair like ooooo,

look how psycho those Jesuits were brainwashing those little kids, oh the

horror!

>

> But here I'd be having felt controlled, smothered, and more brainwashed than I

knew from the beginning hearing her say this...and feeling sick. And I still

feel sick every time she says it. She said it today.

>

> I've decided I want a really good come back next time she says it - something

that will answer the passive-aggressive implication in her statement which is " I

own your ass " . I'd like to say yeah what that saying refers to is a sin,

owning another human being is slavery and wrong. Just something to really

answer the subtle message.

>

> Thoughts? And would this scenario squick any of you guys out or am I being

oversensitive?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

> P.S. - no offense meant to Catholics or Jesuits here...I'm not even sure that

saying was ever said by anybody outside of fiction, it was in Shogun I think.

>

[Guest guest]

In my experience, Nada usually doesn't understand the come backs. Mine would

either adopt it as something she made up and pretend she said it, or go into

hysterical victim mode. . . Better to just enforce the boundary - if you

say that to me I will leave, hang up, this is the 3rd time I've told you.

Goodbye.

On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 8:34 AM, anuria67854 wrote:

>

>

> I agree with your idea and 's: just agree with her. Maybe you

> could say, " Well, mom; if anyone can confirm that that's true, it's you. " or

> even more briefly, " Well, you would know. "

>

> I used the same " agreeing " technique on my nada who kept pointing out a

> particular physical flaw of mine (that she thinks we share) even though I'd

> asked her literally dozens of times to please not do that. I can't do

> anything about this flaw and beiold that its not attractive (again and

> again) just makes me feel sad and self-conscious. So finally out of pure

> frustration I agreed with her (in a mildly sarcastic way) and the sarcasm

> finally penetrated where simply asking her (or even begging her) to please

> stop went ignored. She finally " heard " me.

>

> As an aside, I recently had a face-to-face visit with nada that I couldn't

> avoid; I needed to attend a family function. I have been Very Low Contact

> (virtually no contact) with her for the last couple of years. But I

> determined to be pleasant and polite so as to make the visit not about me

> but about supporting my Sister and her family. I was surprised and pleased

> that nada appeared determined to be pleasant and polite herself, but when

> she and I were seated together at the end of a row, nada made a point of

> mentioning this flaw, again. I guess she hauls out this particular barb when

> she's angry at me but being passive-aggressive about it. (I call those

> " stealth insults " .) So due to the circumstances of a solemn ceremony about

> to commence and the seating being reserved, instead of responding to the

> comment I just stared at her silently until she looked away.

>

> (It never ceases to amaze me that the nadas posted about here have so many

> unpleasant behavioral traits in common.)

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> >

> > So I just wanted to float this little conversational snippet by you guys

> and get some reactions. So my nada has always been very anti-religion

> especially organized religion, especially Catholic. Ever since I was little

> I can remember that when the subject of Catholics came up she would always

> say - like a broken record - about how the Jesuits had a saying about " give

> me a child till he's age six and he's mine for life " . She'd say this with a

> dramatic flair like ooooo, look how psycho those Jesuits were brainwashing

> those little kids, oh the horror!

> >

> > But here I'd be having felt controlled, smothered, and more brainwashed

> than I knew from the beginning hearing her say this...and feeling sick. And

> I still feel sick every time she says it. She said it today.

> >

> > I've decided I want a really good come back next time she says it -

> something that will answer the passive-aggressive implication in her

> statement which is " I own your ass " . I'd like to say yeah what that saying

> refers to is a sin, owning another human being is slavery and wrong. Just

> something to really answer the subtle message.

> >

> > Thoughts? And would this scenario squick any of you guys out or am I

> being oversensitive?

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> >

> > P.S. - no offense meant to Catholics or Jesuits here...I'm not even sure

> that saying was ever said by anybody outside of fiction, it was in Shogun I

> think.

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In my experience, Nada usually doesn't understand the come backs. Mine would

either adopt it as something she made up and pretend she said it, or go into

hysterical victim mode. . . Better to just enforce the boundary - if you

say that to me I will leave, hang up, this is the 3rd time I've told you.

Goodbye.

On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 8:34 AM, anuria67854 wrote:

>

>

> I agree with your idea and 's: just agree with her. Maybe you

> could say, " Well, mom; if anyone can confirm that that's true, it's you. " or

> even more briefly, " Well, you would know. "

>

> I used the same " agreeing " technique on my nada who kept pointing out a

> particular physical flaw of mine (that she thinks we share) even though I'd

> asked her literally dozens of times to please not do that. I can't do

> anything about this flaw and beiold that its not attractive (again and

> again) just makes me feel sad and self-conscious. So finally out of pure

> frustration I agreed with her (in a mildly sarcastic way) and the sarcasm

> finally penetrated where simply asking her (or even begging her) to please

> stop went ignored. She finally " heard " me.

>

> As an aside, I recently had a face-to-face visit with nada that I couldn't

> avoid; I needed to attend a family function. I have been Very Low Contact

> (virtually no contact) with her for the last couple of years. But I

> determined to be pleasant and polite so as to make the visit not about me

> but about supporting my Sister and her family. I was surprised and pleased

> that nada appeared determined to be pleasant and polite herself, but when

> she and I were seated together at the end of a row, nada made a point of

> mentioning this flaw, again. I guess she hauls out this particular barb when

> she's angry at me but being passive-aggressive about it. (I call those

> " stealth insults " .) So due to the circumstances of a solemn ceremony about

> to commence and the seating being reserved, instead of responding to the

> comment I just stared at her silently until she looked away.

>

> (It never ceases to amaze me that the nadas posted about here have so many

> unpleasant behavioral traits in common.)

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> >

> > So I just wanted to float this little conversational snippet by you guys

> and get some reactions. So my nada has always been very anti-religion

> especially organized religion, especially Catholic. Ever since I was little

> I can remember that when the subject of Catholics came up she would always

> say - like a broken record - about how the Jesuits had a saying about " give

> me a child till he's age six and he's mine for life " . She'd say this with a

> dramatic flair like ooooo, look how psycho those Jesuits were brainwashing

> those little kids, oh the horror!

> >

> > But here I'd be having felt controlled, smothered, and more brainwashed

> than I knew from the beginning hearing her say this...and feeling sick. And

> I still feel sick every time she says it. She said it today.

> >

> > I've decided I want a really good come back next time she says it -

> something that will answer the passive-aggressive implication in her

> statement which is " I own your ass " . I'd like to say yeah what that saying

> refers to is a sin, owning another human being is slavery and wrong. Just

> something to really answer the subtle message.

> >

> > Thoughts? And would this scenario squick any of you guys out or am I

> being oversensitive?

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> >

> > P.S. - no offense meant to Catholics or Jesuits here...I'm not even sure

> that saying was ever said by anybody outside of fiction, it was in Shogun I

> think.

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In my experience, Nada usually doesn't understand the come backs. Mine would

either adopt it as something she made up and pretend she said it, or go into

hysterical victim mode. . . Better to just enforce the boundary - if you

say that to me I will leave, hang up, this is the 3rd time I've told you.

Goodbye.

On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 8:34 AM, anuria67854 wrote:

>

>

> I agree with your idea and 's: just agree with her. Maybe you

> could say, " Well, mom; if anyone can confirm that that's true, it's you. " or

> even more briefly, " Well, you would know. "

>

> I used the same " agreeing " technique on my nada who kept pointing out a

> particular physical flaw of mine (that she thinks we share) even though I'd

> asked her literally dozens of times to please not do that. I can't do

> anything about this flaw and beiold that its not attractive (again and

> again) just makes me feel sad and self-conscious. So finally out of pure

> frustration I agreed with her (in a mildly sarcastic way) and the sarcasm

> finally penetrated where simply asking her (or even begging her) to please

> stop went ignored. She finally " heard " me.

>

> As an aside, I recently had a face-to-face visit with nada that I couldn't

> avoid; I needed to attend a family function. I have been Very Low Contact

> (virtually no contact) with her for the last couple of years. But I

> determined to be pleasant and polite so as to make the visit not about me

> but about supporting my Sister and her family. I was surprised and pleased

> that nada appeared determined to be pleasant and polite herself, but when

> she and I were seated together at the end of a row, nada made a point of

> mentioning this flaw, again. I guess she hauls out this particular barb when

> she's angry at me but being passive-aggressive about it. (I call those

> " stealth insults " .) So due to the circumstances of a solemn ceremony about

> to commence and the seating being reserved, instead of responding to the

> comment I just stared at her silently until she looked away.

>

> (It never ceases to amaze me that the nadas posted about here have so many

> unpleasant behavioral traits in common.)

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> >

> > So I just wanted to float this little conversational snippet by you guys

> and get some reactions. So my nada has always been very anti-religion

> especially organized religion, especially Catholic. Ever since I was little

> I can remember that when the subject of Catholics came up she would always

> say - like a broken record - about how the Jesuits had a saying about " give

> me a child till he's age six and he's mine for life " . She'd say this with a

> dramatic flair like ooooo, look how psycho those Jesuits were brainwashing

> those little kids, oh the horror!

> >

> > But here I'd be having felt controlled, smothered, and more brainwashed

> than I knew from the beginning hearing her say this...and feeling sick. And

> I still feel sick every time she says it. She said it today.

> >

> > I've decided I want a really good come back next time she says it -

> something that will answer the passive-aggressive implication in her

> statement which is " I own your ass " . I'd like to say yeah what that saying

> refers to is a sin, owning another human being is slavery and wrong. Just

> something to really answer the subtle message.

> >

> > Thoughts? And would this scenario squick any of you guys out or am I

> being oversensitive?

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> >

> > P.S. - no offense meant to Catholics or Jesuits here...I'm not even sure

> that saying was ever said by anybody outside of fiction, it was in Shogun I

> think.

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think it's true, apparently during the first six years is when the love map is

formed in the brain and it becomes somewhat cemented, it's supposedly how a

person gives and receives love, it is kind of hard-wired in there.

yeah it's a sick statement that doesn't need a comeback. or you could just point

out that exerting psychological power over someone by damaging them in early

childhood is not anything to be proud of or brag about.

>

> So I just wanted to float this little conversational snippet by you guys and

get some reactions. So my nada has always been very anti-religion especially

organized religion, especially Catholic. Ever since I was little I can remember

that when the subject of Catholics came up she would always say - like a broken

record - about how the Jesuits had a saying about " give me a child till he's age

six and he's mine for life " . She'd say this with a dramatic flair like ooooo,

look how psycho those Jesuits were brainwashing those little kids, oh the

horror!

>

> But here I'd be having felt controlled, smothered, and more brainwashed than I

knew from the beginning hearing her say this...and feeling sick. And I still

feel sick every time she says it. She said it today.

>

> I've decided I want a really good come back next time she says it - something

that will answer the passive-aggressive implication in her statement which is " I

own your ass " . I'd like to say yeah what that saying refers to is a sin,

owning another human being is slavery and wrong. Just something to really

answer the subtle message.

>

> Thoughts? And would this scenario squick any of you guys out or am I being

oversensitive?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

> P.S. - no offense meant to Catholics or Jesuits here...I'm not even sure that

saying was ever said by anybody outside of fiction, it was in Shogun I think.

>

[Guest guest]

I think it's true, apparently during the first six years is when the love map is

formed in the brain and it becomes somewhat cemented, it's supposedly how a

person gives and receives love, it is kind of hard-wired in there.

yeah it's a sick statement that doesn't need a comeback. or you could just point

out that exerting psychological power over someone by damaging them in early

childhood is not anything to be proud of or brag about.

>

> So I just wanted to float this little conversational snippet by you guys and

get some reactions. So my nada has always been very anti-religion especially

organized religion, especially Catholic. Ever since I was little I can remember

that when the subject of Catholics came up she would always say - like a broken

record - about how the Jesuits had a saying about " give me a child till he's age

six and he's mine for life " . She'd say this with a dramatic flair like ooooo,

look how psycho those Jesuits were brainwashing those little kids, oh the

horror!

>

> But here I'd be having felt controlled, smothered, and more brainwashed than I

knew from the beginning hearing her say this...and feeling sick. And I still

feel sick every time she says it. She said it today.

>

> I've decided I want a really good come back next time she says it - something

that will answer the passive-aggressive implication in her statement which is " I

own your ass " . I'd like to say yeah what that saying refers to is a sin,

owning another human being is slavery and wrong. Just something to really

answer the subtle message.

>

> Thoughts? And would this scenario squick any of you guys out or am I being

oversensitive?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

> P.S. - no offense meant to Catholics or Jesuits here...I'm not even sure that

saying was ever said by anybody outside of fiction, it was in Shogun I think.

>

[Guest guest]

Children of BPD's are truly imprisoned in a life of hell. My mother wasn't

against organized religion, but she was against anything that wasn't southern

baptist. She was also against black people, homosexual people, and anyone who

wasn't morally what she approved of. And her morals changed (she she wasn't even

subject to them either, but everyone else was).

I was so smothered by her as an adult and older teen but it wasn't in a 'be my

friend, spend time with me' kind of way. It was more in a demanding, military

style, demanding respect, expecting perfection, controlling, manipulative way.

[Guest guest]

Children of BPD's are truly imprisoned in a life of hell. My mother wasn't

against organized religion, but she was against anything that wasn't southern

baptist. She was also against black people, homosexual people, and anyone who

wasn't morally what she approved of. And her morals changed (she she wasn't even

subject to them either, but everyone else was).

I was so smothered by her as an adult and older teen but it wasn't in a 'be my

friend, spend time with me' kind of way. It was more in a demanding, military

style, demanding respect, expecting perfection, controlling, manipulative way.

[Guest guest]

Children of BPD's are truly imprisoned in a life of hell. My mother wasn't

against organized religion, but she was against anything that wasn't southern

baptist. She was also against black people, homosexual people, and anyone who

wasn't morally what she approved of. And her morals changed (she she wasn't even

subject to them either, but everyone else was).

I was so smothered by her as an adult and older teen but it wasn't in a 'be my

friend, spend time with me' kind of way. It was more in a demanding, military

style, demanding respect, expecting perfection, controlling, manipulative way.

[Guest guest]

" Children of BPD's are truly imprisoned in a life of hell. "

I think I can relate to what you're saying. Now that I understand more about

what personality disorder is, what the symptoms are, and how profoundly damaging

emotional, physical and sexual abuse and negligence are to children, I am

having a hard time wrapping my mind around the idea that children are routinely

left in the care of mothers whose symptoms are described as " having a severe

mental illness. "

There seems to be either a big blind spot or a great deal of hypocrisy involved

in leaving children alone in the unsupervised and unmonitored care of a mentally

ill parent, in my opinion.

On the one hand, we're being asked to understand and have compassion for those

with personality disorders because they can't help " acting out " or " acting in "

their destructive, negative, toxic, impulsive behaviors... and yet at the same

time we leave small, helpless, dependent children with someone who:

is chronically angry and physically abusive,

has unrealistic, perfectionistic expectations of her child,

is emotionally unstable and self-harming,

is impulsive and has " transient breaks with reality " under stress,

thinks her child is either all-good or all-bad,

objectifies her child: treats the child like a thing with no feelings,

switches from being totally unhealthily enmeshed with her child and

inappropriately intrusive, to being negligent and dismissive of her child's

needs and/or parentifies the child...

(the list of emotional and physical abuse could go on and on)

But the point I'm trying to make is, isn't it obvious that a

personality-disordered parent needs intense monitoring and supervision if she's

going to be raising children?

I think all the worst emotional damage was done to me before I was 6 years old,

but because my borderline pd/narcissistic pd nada is intelligent and very

high-functioning, her abusive behaviors toward my little Sister and me flew

under the radar. Only my dad or perhaps the next door neighbors could have

possibly been aware of the screaming and physical abuse that went on almost

daily.

Yet nothing was done.

I can only conclude that severe emotional abuse and physical abuse of children

is considered " good enough " parenting, and that sickens and depresses me.

-Annie

>

>

> Children of BPD's are truly imprisoned in a life of hell. My mother wasn't

against organized religion, but she was against anything that wasn't southern

baptist. She was also against black people, homosexual people, and anyone who

wasn't morally what she approved of. And her morals changed (she she wasn't even

subject to them either, but everyone else was).

>

> I was so smothered by her as an adult and older teen but it wasn't in a 'be my

friend, spend time with me' kind of way. It was more in a demanding, military

style, demanding respect, expecting perfection, controlling, manipulative way.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" Children of BPD's are truly imprisoned in a life of hell. "

I think I can relate to what you're saying. Now that I understand more about

what personality disorder is, what the symptoms are, and how profoundly damaging

emotional, physical and sexual abuse and negligence are to children, I am

having a hard time wrapping my mind around the idea that children are routinely

left in the care of mothers whose symptoms are described as " having a severe

mental illness. "

There seems to be either a big blind spot or a great deal of hypocrisy involved

in leaving children alone in the unsupervised and unmonitored care of a mentally

ill parent, in my opinion.

On the one hand, we're being asked to understand and have compassion for those

with personality disorders because they can't help " acting out " or " acting in "

their destructive, negative, toxic, impulsive behaviors... and yet at the same

time we leave small, helpless, dependent children with someone who:

is chronically angry and physically abusive,

has unrealistic, perfectionistic expectations of her child,

is emotionally unstable and self-harming,

is impulsive and has " transient breaks with reality " under stress,

thinks her child is either all-good or all-bad,

objectifies her child: treats the child like a thing with no feelings,

switches from being totally unhealthily enmeshed with her child and

inappropriately intrusive, to being negligent and dismissive of her child's

needs and/or parentifies the child...

(the list of emotional and physical abuse could go on and on)

But the point I'm trying to make is, isn't it obvious that a

personality-disordered parent needs intense monitoring and supervision if she's

going to be raising children?

I think all the worst emotional damage was done to me before I was 6 years old,

but because my borderline pd/narcissistic pd nada is intelligent and very

high-functioning, her abusive behaviors toward my little Sister and me flew

under the radar. Only my dad or perhaps the next door neighbors could have

possibly been aware of the screaming and physical abuse that went on almost

daily.

Yet nothing was done.

I can only conclude that severe emotional abuse and physical abuse of children

is considered " good enough " parenting, and that sickens and depresses me.

-Annie

>

>

> Children of BPD's are truly imprisoned in a life of hell. My mother wasn't

against organized religion, but she was against anything that wasn't southern

baptist. She was also against black people, homosexual people, and anyone who

wasn't morally what she approved of. And her morals changed (she she wasn't even

subject to them either, but everyone else was).

>

> I was so smothered by her as an adult and older teen but it wasn't in a 'be my

friend, spend time with me' kind of way. It was more in a demanding, military

style, demanding respect, expecting perfection, controlling, manipulative way.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" Children of BPD's are truly imprisoned in a life of hell. "

I think I can relate to what you're saying. Now that I understand more about

what personality disorder is, what the symptoms are, and how profoundly damaging

emotional, physical and sexual abuse and negligence are to children, I am

having a hard time wrapping my mind around the idea that children are routinely

left in the care of mothers whose symptoms are described as " having a severe

mental illness. "

There seems to be either a big blind spot or a great deal of hypocrisy involved

in leaving children alone in the unsupervised and unmonitored care of a mentally

ill parent, in my opinion.

On the one hand, we're being asked to understand and have compassion for those

with personality disorders because they can't help " acting out " or " acting in "

their destructive, negative, toxic, impulsive behaviors... and yet at the same

time we leave small, helpless, dependent children with someone who:

is chronically angry and physically abusive,

has unrealistic, perfectionistic expectations of her child,

is emotionally unstable and self-harming,

is impulsive and has " transient breaks with reality " under stress,

thinks her child is either all-good or all-bad,

objectifies her child: treats the child like a thing with no feelings,

switches from being totally unhealthily enmeshed with her child and

inappropriately intrusive, to being negligent and dismissive of her child's

needs and/or parentifies the child...

(the list of emotional and physical abuse could go on and on)

But the point I'm trying to make is, isn't it obvious that a

personality-disordered parent needs intense monitoring and supervision if she's

going to be raising children?

I think all the worst emotional damage was done to me before I was 6 years old,

but because my borderline pd/narcissistic pd nada is intelligent and very

high-functioning, her abusive behaviors toward my little Sister and me flew

under the radar. Only my dad or perhaps the next door neighbors could have

possibly been aware of the screaming and physical abuse that went on almost

daily.

Yet nothing was done.

I can only conclude that severe emotional abuse and physical abuse of children

is considered " good enough " parenting, and that sickens and depresses me.

-Annie

>

>

> Children of BPD's are truly imprisoned in a life of hell. My mother wasn't

against organized religion, but she was against anything that wasn't southern

baptist. She was also against black people, homosexual people, and anyone who

wasn't morally what she approved of. And her morals changed (she she wasn't even

subject to them either, but everyone else was).

>

> I was so smothered by her as an adult and older teen but it wasn't in a 'be my

friend, spend time with me' kind of way. It was more in a demanding, military

style, demanding respect, expecting perfection, controlling, manipulative way.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think intense monitoring is an amazing idea, but the problem would

implementing it. Like you said, your nada was so high functioning no one really

knew outside of the immediate family. And if your family was like mine, if I had

told somebody, they'd have thought i was either making it up or was the problem

because she was so good at making things turn out her way, twisting things, and

dowright lying about them. My mother even threatened taking ME to a

psychologist because of my " issues. " In my mind, going to a psychologist would

have been hugely embarrassing. And it also just reiterated that there was

something wrong with me and not her.

My mother was at times physically abusive, but mostly emotionally. I think some

of her 'dislosures' to me about her sex life and things like that were sexually

absuive too, but she would have denied it. I once confronted her (when I was

about 25) about telling me that my dad was impotent when I was 8. She claims I

was 18, not 8. And then I begin to question my own memory at that point. She's

so convincing and so conniving. She did it with everything though. It's why NO

ONE outside of our family knew what she was really like. I couldn't get help

because no one saw a problem. When I got in junior high (7th grade), my OCD

symptoms got reaaally bad. They put me in a school for emotionally disturbed

children and she never let me forget that it was ME who was disturbed and she

'did all she could' and was a 'good mother.'

Re: got you till age six, own you for life

" Children of BPD's are truly imprisoned in a life of hell. "

I think I can relate to what you're saying. Now that I understand more about

what personality disorder is, what the symptoms are, and how profoundly damaging

emotional, physical and sexual abuse and negligence are to children, I am having

a hard time wrapping my mind around the idea that children are routinely left in

the care of mothers whose symptoms are described as " having a severe mental

illness. "

There seems to be either a big blind spot or a great deal of hypocrisy involved

in leaving children alone in the unsupervised and unmonitored care of a mentally

ill parent, in my opinion.

On the one hand, we're being asked to understand and have compassion for those

with personality disorders because they can't help " acting out " or " acting in "

their destructive, negative, toxic, impulsive behaviors... and yet at the same

time we leave small, helpless, dependent children with someone who:

is chronically angry and physically abusive,

has unrealistic, perfectionistic expectations of her child,

is emotionally unstable and self-harming,

is impulsive and has " transient breaks with reality " under stress,

thinks her child is either all-good or all-bad,

objectifies her child: treats the child like a thing with no feelings,

switches from being totally unhealthily enmeshed with her child and

inappropriately intrusive, to being negligent and dismissive of her child's

needs and/or parentifies the child...

(the list of emotional and physical abuse could go on and on)

But the point I'm trying to make is, isn't it obvious that a

personality-disordered parent needs intense monitoring and supervision if she's

going to be raising children?

I think all the worst emotional damage was done to me before I was 6 years old,

but because my borderline pd/narcissistic pd nada is intelligent and very

high-functioning, her abusive behaviors toward my little Sister and me flew

under the radar. Only my dad or perhaps the next door neighbors could have

possibly been aware of the screaming and physical abuse that went on almost

daily.

Yet nothing was done.

I can only conclude that severe emotional abuse and physical abuse of children

is considered " good enough " parenting, and that sickens and depresses me.

-Annie

>

>

> Children of BPD's are truly imprisoned in a life of hell. My mother wasn't

against organized religion, but she was against anything that wasn't southern

baptist. She was also against black people, homosexual people, and anyone who

wasn't morally what she approved of. And her morals changed (she she wasn't even

subject to them either, but everyone else was).

>

> I was so smothered by her as an adult and older teen but it wasn't in a 'be my

friend, spend time with me' kind of way. It was more in a demanding, military

style, demanding respect, expecting perfection, controlling, manipulative way.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think intense monitoring is an amazing idea, but the problem would

implementing it. Like you said, your nada was so high functioning no one really

knew outside of the immediate family. And if your family was like mine, if I had

told somebody, they'd have thought i was either making it up or was the problem

because she was so good at making things turn out her way, twisting things, and

dowright lying about them. My mother even threatened taking ME to a

psychologist because of my " issues. " In my mind, going to a psychologist would

have been hugely embarrassing. And it also just reiterated that there was

something wrong with me and not her.

My mother was at times physically abusive, but mostly emotionally. I think some

of her 'dislosures' to me about her sex life and things like that were sexually

absuive too, but she would have denied it. I once confronted her (when I was

about 25) about telling me that my dad was impotent when I was 8. She claims I

was 18, not 8. And then I begin to question my own memory at that point. She's

so convincing and so conniving. She did it with everything though. It's why NO

ONE outside of our family knew what she was really like. I couldn't get help

because no one saw a problem. When I got in junior high (7th grade), my OCD

symptoms got reaaally bad. They put me in a school for emotionally disturbed

children and she never let me forget that it was ME who was disturbed and she

'did all she could' and was a 'good mother.'

Re: got you till age six, own you for life

" Children of BPD's are truly imprisoned in a life of hell. "

I think I can relate to what you're saying. Now that I understand more about

what personality disorder is, what the symptoms are, and how profoundly damaging

emotional, physical and sexual abuse and negligence are to children, I am having

a hard time wrapping my mind around the idea that children are routinely left in

the care of mothers whose symptoms are described as " having a severe mental

illness. "

There seems to be either a big blind spot or a great deal of hypocrisy involved

in leaving children alone in the unsupervised and unmonitored care of a mentally

ill parent, in my opinion.

On the one hand, we're being asked to understand and have compassion for those

with personality disorders because they can't help " acting out " or " acting in "

their destructive, negative, toxic, impulsive behaviors... and yet at the same

time we leave small, helpless, dependent children with someone who:

is chronically angry and physically abusive,

has unrealistic, perfectionistic expectations of her child,

is emotionally unstable and self-harming,

is impulsive and has " transient breaks with reality " under stress,

thinks her child is either all-good or all-bad,

objectifies her child: treats the child like a thing with no feelings,

switches from being totally unhealthily enmeshed with her child and

inappropriately intrusive, to being negligent and dismissive of her child's

needs and/or parentifies the child...

(the list of emotional and physical abuse could go on and on)

But the point I'm trying to make is, isn't it obvious that a

personality-disordered parent needs intense monitoring and supervision if she's

going to be raising children?

I think all the worst emotional damage was done to me before I was 6 years old,

but because my borderline pd/narcissistic pd nada is intelligent and very

high-functioning, her abusive behaviors toward my little Sister and me flew

under the radar. Only my dad or perhaps the next door neighbors could have

possibly been aware of the screaming and physical abuse that went on almost

daily.

Yet nothing was done.

I can only conclude that severe emotional abuse and physical abuse of children

is considered " good enough " parenting, and that sickens and depresses me.

-Annie

>

>

> Children of BPD's are truly imprisoned in a life of hell. My mother wasn't

against organized religion, but she was against anything that wasn't southern

baptist. She was also against black people, homosexual people, and anyone who

wasn't morally what she approved of. And her morals changed (she she wasn't even

subject to them either, but everyone else was).

>

> I was so smothered by her as an adult and older teen but it wasn't in a 'be my

friend, spend time with me' kind of way. It was more in a demanding, military

style, demanding respect, expecting perfection, controlling, manipulative way.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think intense monitoring is an amazing idea, but the problem would

implementing it. Like you said, your nada was so high functioning no one really

knew outside of the immediate family. And if your family was like mine, if I had

told somebody, they'd have thought i was either making it up or was the problem

because she was so good at making things turn out her way, twisting things, and

dowright lying about them. My mother even threatened taking ME to a

psychologist because of my " issues. " In my mind, going to a psychologist would

have been hugely embarrassing. And it also just reiterated that there was

something wrong with me and not her.

My mother was at times physically abusive, but mostly emotionally. I think some

of her 'dislosures' to me about her sex life and things like that were sexually

absuive too, but she would have denied it. I once confronted her (when I was

about 25) about telling me that my dad was impotent when I was 8. She claims I

was 18, not 8. And then I begin to question my own memory at that point. She's

so convincing and so conniving. She did it with everything though. It's why NO

ONE outside of our family knew what she was really like. I couldn't get help

because no one saw a problem. When I got in junior high (7th grade), my OCD

symptoms got reaaally bad. They put me in a school for emotionally disturbed

children and she never let me forget that it was ME who was disturbed and she

'did all she could' and was a 'good mother.'

Re: got you till age six, own you for life

" Children of BPD's are truly imprisoned in a life of hell. "

I think I can relate to what you're saying. Now that I understand more about

what personality disorder is, what the symptoms are, and how profoundly damaging

emotional, physical and sexual abuse and negligence are to children, I am having

a hard time wrapping my mind around the idea that children are routinely left in

the care of mothers whose symptoms are described as " having a severe mental

illness. "

There seems to be either a big blind spot or a great deal of hypocrisy involved

in leaving children alone in the unsupervised and unmonitored care of a mentally

ill parent, in my opinion.

On the one hand, we're being asked to understand and have compassion for those

with personality disorders because they can't help " acting out " or " acting in "

their destructive, negative, toxic, impulsive behaviors... and yet at the same

time we leave small, helpless, dependent children with someone who:

is chronically angry and physically abusive,

has unrealistic, perfectionistic expectations of her child,

is emotionally unstable and self-harming,

is impulsive and has " transient breaks with reality " under stress,

thinks her child is either all-good or all-bad,

objectifies her child: treats the child like a thing with no feelings,

switches from being totally unhealthily enmeshed with her child and

inappropriately intrusive, to being negligent and dismissive of her child's

needs and/or parentifies the child...

(the list of emotional and physical abuse could go on and on)

But the point I'm trying to make is, isn't it obvious that a

personality-disordered parent needs intense monitoring and supervision if she's

going to be raising children?

I think all the worst emotional damage was done to me before I was 6 years old,

but because my borderline pd/narcissistic pd nada is intelligent and very

high-functioning, her abusive behaviors toward my little Sister and me flew

under the radar. Only my dad or perhaps the next door neighbors could have

possibly been aware of the screaming and physical abuse that went on almost

daily.

Yet nothing was done.

I can only conclude that severe emotional abuse and physical abuse of children

is considered " good enough " parenting, and that sickens and depresses me.

-Annie

>

>

> Children of BPD's are truly imprisoned in a life of hell. My mother wasn't

against organized religion, but she was against anything that wasn't southern

baptist. She was also against black people, homosexual people, and anyone who

wasn't morally what she approved of. And her morals changed (she she wasn't even

subject to them either, but everyone else was).

>

> I was so smothered by her as an adult and older teen but it wasn't in a 'be my

friend, spend time with me' kind of way. It was more in a demanding, military

style, demanding respect, expecting perfection, controlling, manipulative way.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Annie, I know the " stealth barb " well it is a favorite weapon of choice for my

nada, and FOO in general. Their favorite stealth barb is one that hits an

insecurity that's only mentioned because they CARE so much. Just set up to

make you look like you are the jerk for objecting.

Your and 's take makes sense - agree but then add a bit of reflection,

a bit of a stealth barb of my own. I just think it's crazy for the a parent to

keep quoting that to their child (adult or not) given the parent is the one who

had the child since they were six. Of course in her mind she was a perfect

parent and I had a great childhood...um, yeah.

About intense monitoring for PD parents I completely agree, but I wonder how on

earth it would be enforceable. Almost everything my nada did and does is

stealth, passive-aggressive, really sneaky. It does damage but it's really hard

to objectively point it out to someone who doesn't get the lifetime context.

So unless a PD parent is clearly psychotic, clearly physically abusive, how on

earth do they get identified properly? There's so much denial out there too.

Still I totally agree with you - it grieves me to think of how many children are

trapped today.

> >

> > So I just wanted to float this little conversational snippet by you guys and

get some reactions. So my nada has always been very anti-religion especially

organized religion, especially Catholic. Ever since I was little I can remember

that when the subject of Catholics came up she would always say - like a broken

record - about how the Jesuits had a saying about " give me a child till he's age

six and he's mine for life " . She'd say this with a dramatic flair like ooooo,

look how psycho those Jesuits were brainwashing those little kids, oh the

horror!

> >

> > But here I'd be having felt controlled, smothered, and more brainwashed than

I knew from the beginning hearing her say this...and feeling sick. And I still

feel sick every time she says it. She said it today.

> >

> > I've decided I want a really good come back next time she says it -

something that will answer the passive-aggressive implication in her statement

which is " I own your ass " . I'd like to say yeah what that saying refers to is

a sin, owning another human being is slavery and wrong. Just something to

really answer the subtle message.

> >

> > Thoughts? And would this scenario squick any of you guys out or am I being

oversensitive?

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> >

> > P.S. - no offense meant to Catholics or Jesuits here...I'm not even sure

that saying was ever said by anybody outside of fiction, it was in Shogun I

think.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Annie, I know the " stealth barb " well it is a favorite weapon of choice for my

nada, and FOO in general. Their favorite stealth barb is one that hits an

insecurity that's only mentioned because they CARE so much. Just set up to

make you look like you are the jerk for objecting.

Your and 's take makes sense - agree but then add a bit of reflection,

a bit of a stealth barb of my own. I just think it's crazy for the a parent to

keep quoting that to their child (adult or not) given the parent is the one who

had the child since they were six. Of course in her mind she was a perfect

parent and I had a great childhood...um, yeah.

About intense monitoring for PD parents I completely agree, but I wonder how on

earth it would be enforceable. Almost everything my nada did and does is

stealth, passive-aggressive, really sneaky. It does damage but it's really hard

to objectively point it out to someone who doesn't get the lifetime context.

So unless a PD parent is clearly psychotic, clearly physically abusive, how on

earth do they get identified properly? There's so much denial out there too.

Still I totally agree with you - it grieves me to think of how many children are

trapped today.

> >

> > So I just wanted to float this little conversational snippet by you guys and

get some reactions. So my nada has always been very anti-religion especially

organized religion, especially Catholic. Ever since I was little I can remember

that when the subject of Catholics came up she would always say - like a broken

record - about how the Jesuits had a saying about " give me a child till he's age

six and he's mine for life " . She'd say this with a dramatic flair like ooooo,

look how psycho those Jesuits were brainwashing those little kids, oh the

horror!

> >

> > But here I'd be having felt controlled, smothered, and more brainwashed than

I knew from the beginning hearing her say this...and feeling sick. And I still

feel sick every time she says it. She said it today.

> >

> > I've decided I want a really good come back next time she says it -

something that will answer the passive-aggressive implication in her statement

which is " I own your ass " . I'd like to say yeah what that saying refers to is

a sin, owning another human being is slavery and wrong. Just something to

really answer the subtle message.

> >

> > Thoughts? And would this scenario squick any of you guys out or am I being

oversensitive?

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> >

> > P.S. - no offense meant to Catholics or Jesuits here...I'm not even sure

that saying was ever said by anybody outside of fiction, it was in Shogun I

think.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Annie, I know the " stealth barb " well it is a favorite weapon of choice for my

nada, and FOO in general. Their favorite stealth barb is one that hits an

insecurity that's only mentioned because they CARE so much. Just set up to

make you look like you are the jerk for objecting.

Your and 's take makes sense - agree but then add a bit of reflection,

a bit of a stealth barb of my own. I just think it's crazy for the a parent to

keep quoting that to their child (adult or not) given the parent is the one who

had the child since they were six. Of course in her mind she was a perfect

parent and I had a great childhood...um, yeah.

About intense monitoring for PD parents I completely agree, but I wonder how on

earth it would be enforceable. Almost everything my nada did and does is

stealth, passive-aggressive, really sneaky. It does damage but it's really hard

to objectively point it out to someone who doesn't get the lifetime context.

So unless a PD parent is clearly psychotic, clearly physically abusive, how on

earth do they get identified properly? There's so much denial out there too.

Still I totally agree with you - it grieves me to think of how many children are

trapped today.

> >

> > So I just wanted to float this little conversational snippet by you guys and

get some reactions. So my nada has always been very anti-religion especially

organized religion, especially Catholic. Ever since I was little I can remember

that when the subject of Catholics came up she would always say - like a broken

record - about how the Jesuits had a saying about " give me a child till he's age

six and he's mine for life " . She'd say this with a dramatic flair like ooooo,

look how psycho those Jesuits were brainwashing those little kids, oh the

horror!

> >

> > But here I'd be having felt controlled, smothered, and more brainwashed than

I knew from the beginning hearing her say this...and feeling sick. And I still

feel sick every time she says it. She said it today.

> >

> > I've decided I want a really good come back next time she says it -

something that will answer the passive-aggressive implication in her statement

which is " I own your ass " . I'd like to say yeah what that saying refers to is

a sin, owning another human being is slavery and wrong. Just something to

really answer the subtle message.

> >

> > Thoughts? And would this scenario squick any of you guys out or am I being

oversensitive?

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> >

> > P.S. - no offense meant to Catholics or Jesuits here...I'm not even sure

that saying was ever said by anybody outside of fiction, it was in Shogun I

think.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Stefanie, oh she'd never dream it applied to her! Good on you for saying what

you did about calling your brother a donkey - maybe that made her think for a

few seconds.

>

> >

> >

> > So I just wanted to float this little conversational snippet by you guys

> > and get some reactions. So my nada has always been very anti-religion

> > especially organized religion, especially Catholic. Ever since I was little

> > I can remember that when the subject of Catholics came up she would always

> > say - like a broken record - about how the Jesuits had a saying about " give

> > me a child till he's age six and he's mine for life " . She'd say this with a

> > dramatic flair like ooooo, look how psycho those Jesuits were brainwashing

> > those little kids, oh the horror!

> >

> > But here I'd be having felt controlled, smothered, and more brainwashed

> > than I knew from the beginning hearing her say this...and feeling sick. And

> > I still feel sick every time she says it. She said it today.

> >

> > I've decided I want a really good come back next time she says it -

> > something that will answer the passive-aggressive implication in her

> > statement which is " I own your ass " . I'd like to say yeah what that saying

> > refers to is a sin, owning another human being is slavery and wrong. Just

> > something to really answer the subtle message.

> >

> > Thoughts? And would this scenario squick any of you guys out or am I being

> > oversensitive?

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> >

> > P.S. - no offense meant to Catholics or Jesuits here...I'm not even sure

> > that saying was ever said by anybody outside of fiction, it was in Shogun I

> > think.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree; the only solutions I can think of are in the realm of fantasy at this

point.

Besides the idea of parental monitoring (based on the idea that pretty much

everyone who works has to report to someone higher-up for a yearly evaluation

and review of their performance... except parents. Parents are accountable to no

one, unless their abuses are so blatantly egregious that the police or Child

Protective Services are called in) I have this wishful thinking about setting

up a class in all grade levels, even preschool, and calling it " Emotional

Hygiene " .

It would be geared in age-appropriage ways, but the basic idea is to demonstrate

to children the difference between healthy ways of solving problems and relating

to other people, and unhealthy ways of problem-solving and relating to other

people.

This would be done with short films, and would cover topics like dealing with

bullies, how to be organized and exert self-discipline so you can do homework

efficiently (and have more time for play), and how to handle situations that

come up with friends, how to be a responsible pet-owner, etc.

Each topic would be demonstrated by having actors enacting one or two

emotionally healthy ways to handle this particular issue, and one or two

emotionally abusive, unhealthy ways of dealing with the same issue, and a

discussion period afterward.

In the course of demonstrating various topics, over the years the child would

observe and become aware that screaming at other people, hitting them, pitching

temper tantrums, being manipulative, being negligent, showing favoritism to one

sibling (or pet), and other such behaviors are considered abusive, and that

threatening suicide, performing self-harming acts, beating up on those smaller

than yourself, adults being sexual with children or older children being sexual

with smaller children, etc., are alarmingly abusive and need to be reported *no

matter who is doing these things.*

In other words, I think that the path to awareness and positive change is

through education.

It would take a generation or two, but if every child was taught from pre-school

up that its not OK for adults to hit kids, its not OK for adults (or older kids)

to bully children, its not OK for adults or older kids to have sex with

children, its not OK to neglect to feed children (etc.) and its important to

make sure that children have clean clothes and shoes to wear and for children to

have an education, to make sure children have regular dental care, eye care and

medical care, etc., etc. this awareness would eventually become a cultural norm.

If teaching these concepts became part of the regular school curriculum, I think

that children would be more inclined to report it if they're being abused at

home.

But, this is all just wishful thinking at this point. I realize that my idea of

" Emotional Hygiene " classes skirts very close to the concept of a " Big Brother "

culture, but I think that something along those lines (educating children about

mental health) would do more good than harm.

-Annie

>

>

> I think intense monitoring is an amazing idea, but the problem would

implementing it. Like you said, your nada was so high functioning no one really

knew outside of the immediate family. And if your family was like mine, if I had

told somebody, they'd have thought i was either making it up or was the problem

because she was so good at making things turn out her way, twisting things, and

dowright lying about them. My mother even threatened taking ME to a

psychologist because of my " issues. " In my mind, going to a psychologist would

have been hugely embarrassing. And it also just reiterated that there was

something wrong with me and not her.

>

> My mother was at times physically abusive, but mostly emotionally. I think

some of her 'dislosures' to me about her sex life and things like that were

sexually absuive too, but she would have denied it. I once confronted her (when

I was about 25) about telling me that my dad was impotent when I was 8. She

claims I was 18, not 8. And then I begin to question my own memory at that

point. She's so convincing and so conniving. She did it with everything though.

It's why NO ONE outside of our family knew what she was really like. I couldn't

get help because no one saw a problem. When I got in junior high (7th

grade), my OCD symptoms got reaaally bad. They put me in a school for

emotionally disturbed children and she never let me forget that it was ME who

was disturbed and she 'did all she could' and was a 'good mother.'

>

>

>