Re: Will LC with mother only offend father

[Guest guest]

Hey Buddy,

You're note breaks my heart. I want to tell you that you don't have to talk

to anyone you don't want to talk to. You experienced what you experienced

and I know they deny your feelings. You don't have to be around them.

In my case, I am no contact with my mom - and that spiraled until the whole

family was NC and then eventually I went NC with the entire town I grew up

in. I know that sounds scary. . . but my nada does these hate campaigns that

spread throughout the lands. . . .

What books have you read? How about Understanding the Borderline Parent for

a start?

Hugs, do what is right for you. If your family won't support you, you have

us!

And one last thing - who cares if you offend - the fact that they hurt you

offends me!!!!!

On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 12:40 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

>

>

> Hello Jack,

>

> Only you can decide what works best for you.

>

> If you're only considering resuming contact with your parents because your

> siblings and other members of your family are pressuring you, that's not

> fair to you; its inappropriate of your relatives to interfere. This is

> between you and your parents. You have the right to make your decisions and

> do what's best for your own health without outside " FOG " (using fear,

> obligation and guilt to manipulate you.)

>

> When they pressure you, you can respond with something like, " I know you

> are concerned about our parents and about me, but this is really just

> between me and them. I'm not going to put you in the middle and ask you to

> take sides, and I hope you'll do the same. So, please understand that I

> won't be discussing this with you any longer. Thanks for understanding. So,

> how are things going with you...? "

>

> And repeat that like a broken record. You don't have to get their

> agreement, permission, or validation, you're just stating the way things are

> going to be from now on. That's you taking charge and not allowing your

> siblings or other relatives to pressure you. What I've suggested you say is

> not mean, dismissive, angry or hateful, its just you being an assertive

> adult.

>

> But if you, yourself, feel the need to stay in some kind of contact, then I

> suggest writing a short note from time to time to your parents and sending

> it by snail mail. To me, an old-fashioned written letter is much less

> emotionally charged than voice contact, in-person contact, or even e-mail.

>

> You know your parents, and you can be pretty confident in predicting how

> each of them would react to a decision on your part to resuming limited

> contact by phone with your mother, only.

>

> Maybe it will help to keep telling yourself that you are not responsible

> for the way your mother or your father feels about anything. You are not

> responsible for their happiness or unhappiness; their feelings are totally

> their own responsibility.

>

> When a person acts abusively toward you and they've always been abusive and

> its a pattern, and they break promises to not be abusive and instead

> continue to be abusive, then its OK, rational, and mentally healthy for you

> to set boundaries to protect yourself from further abuse even if the abusers

> are your parents.

>

> I hope that helps.

>

> -Annie

>

>

> >

> > Hi there,

> >

> > I'm 24, living outside of home.

> >

> > I'm NC with my father a year and a month now and with my mother 8 months.

> >

> > Lately I've been thinking to go and do LC with my mother (phone calls). I

> don't feel I can get LC with my father. Only the imagination of me calling

> him on the phone throws me into anxieties.

> >

> > With all that said, I don't want to offend him personally in anyway.

> >

> > So what I'm asking is - what's better (for my parents sake, if it was

> depended on me, I would stay NC for another year or even more, it's just

> that my siblings and extended family are pressuring me to get in contact

> with them etc. etc.) - again, what's better - to be in phone calls

> connection with my mother only, or not to be in contact at all?

> >

> > Meaning - if I only speak with my mother by phone and not with my father

> - will that offend him, therefore it'll be better not to talk with none of

> them? Or that it is better for me to be in a phone connection with my

> mother, and that won't be seen as an offence by my father?

> >

> > Hope I was clear.

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Jack

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Buddy,

You're note breaks my heart. I want to tell you that you don't have to talk

to anyone you don't want to talk to. You experienced what you experienced

and I know they deny your feelings. You don't have to be around them.

In my case, I am no contact with my mom - and that spiraled until the whole

family was NC and then eventually I went NC with the entire town I grew up

in. I know that sounds scary. . . but my nada does these hate campaigns that

spread throughout the lands. . . .

What books have you read? How about Understanding the Borderline Parent for

a start?

Hugs, do what is right for you. If your family won't support you, you have

us!

And one last thing - who cares if you offend - the fact that they hurt you

offends me!!!!!

On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 12:40 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

>

>

> Hello Jack,

>

> Only you can decide what works best for you.

>

> If you're only considering resuming contact with your parents because your

> siblings and other members of your family are pressuring you, that's not

> fair to you; its inappropriate of your relatives to interfere. This is

> between you and your parents. You have the right to make your decisions and

> do what's best for your own health without outside " FOG " (using fear,

> obligation and guilt to manipulate you.)

>

> When they pressure you, you can respond with something like, " I know you

> are concerned about our parents and about me, but this is really just

> between me and them. I'm not going to put you in the middle and ask you to

> take sides, and I hope you'll do the same. So, please understand that I

> won't be discussing this with you any longer. Thanks for understanding. So,

> how are things going with you...? "

>

> And repeat that like a broken record. You don't have to get their

> agreement, permission, or validation, you're just stating the way things are

> going to be from now on. That's you taking charge and not allowing your

> siblings or other relatives to pressure you. What I've suggested you say is

> not mean, dismissive, angry or hateful, its just you being an assertive

> adult.

>

> But if you, yourself, feel the need to stay in some kind of contact, then I

> suggest writing a short note from time to time to your parents and sending

> it by snail mail. To me, an old-fashioned written letter is much less

> emotionally charged than voice contact, in-person contact, or even e-mail.

>

> You know your parents, and you can be pretty confident in predicting how

> each of them would react to a decision on your part to resuming limited

> contact by phone with your mother, only.

>

> Maybe it will help to keep telling yourself that you are not responsible

> for the way your mother or your father feels about anything. You are not

> responsible for their happiness or unhappiness; their feelings are totally

> their own responsibility.

>

> When a person acts abusively toward you and they've always been abusive and

> its a pattern, and they break promises to not be abusive and instead

> continue to be abusive, then its OK, rational, and mentally healthy for you

> to set boundaries to protect yourself from further abuse even if the abusers

> are your parents.

>

> I hope that helps.

>

> -Annie

>

>

> >

> > Hi there,

> >

> > I'm 24, living outside of home.

> >

> > I'm NC with my father a year and a month now and with my mother 8 months.

> >

> > Lately I've been thinking to go and do LC with my mother (phone calls). I

> don't feel I can get LC with my father. Only the imagination of me calling

> him on the phone throws me into anxieties.

> >

> > With all that said, I don't want to offend him personally in anyway.

> >

> > So what I'm asking is - what's better (for my parents sake, if it was

> depended on me, I would stay NC for another year or even more, it's just

> that my siblings and extended family are pressuring me to get in contact

> with them etc. etc.) - again, what's better - to be in phone calls

> connection with my mother only, or not to be in contact at all?

> >

> > Meaning - if I only speak with my mother by phone and not with my father

> - will that offend him, therefore it'll be better not to talk with none of

> them? Or that it is better for me to be in a phone connection with my

> mother, and that won't be seen as an offence by my father?

> >

> > Hope I was clear.

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Jack

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Buddy,

You're note breaks my heart. I want to tell you that you don't have to talk

to anyone you don't want to talk to. You experienced what you experienced

and I know they deny your feelings. You don't have to be around them.

In my case, I am no contact with my mom - and that spiraled until the whole

family was NC and then eventually I went NC with the entire town I grew up

in. I know that sounds scary. . . but my nada does these hate campaigns that

spread throughout the lands. . . .

What books have you read? How about Understanding the Borderline Parent for

a start?

Hugs, do what is right for you. If your family won't support you, you have

us!

And one last thing - who cares if you offend - the fact that they hurt you

offends me!!!!!

On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 12:40 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

>

>

> Hello Jack,

>

> Only you can decide what works best for you.

>

> If you're only considering resuming contact with your parents because your

> siblings and other members of your family are pressuring you, that's not

> fair to you; its inappropriate of your relatives to interfere. This is

> between you and your parents. You have the right to make your decisions and

> do what's best for your own health without outside " FOG " (using fear,

> obligation and guilt to manipulate you.)

>

> When they pressure you, you can respond with something like, " I know you

> are concerned about our parents and about me, but this is really just

> between me and them. I'm not going to put you in the middle and ask you to

> take sides, and I hope you'll do the same. So, please understand that I

> won't be discussing this with you any longer. Thanks for understanding. So,

> how are things going with you...? "

>

> And repeat that like a broken record. You don't have to get their

> agreement, permission, or validation, you're just stating the way things are

> going to be from now on. That's you taking charge and not allowing your

> siblings or other relatives to pressure you. What I've suggested you say is

> not mean, dismissive, angry or hateful, its just you being an assertive

> adult.

>

> But if you, yourself, feel the need to stay in some kind of contact, then I

> suggest writing a short note from time to time to your parents and sending

> it by snail mail. To me, an old-fashioned written letter is much less

> emotionally charged than voice contact, in-person contact, or even e-mail.

>

> You know your parents, and you can be pretty confident in predicting how

> each of them would react to a decision on your part to resuming limited

> contact by phone with your mother, only.

>

> Maybe it will help to keep telling yourself that you are not responsible

> for the way your mother or your father feels about anything. You are not

> responsible for their happiness or unhappiness; their feelings are totally

> their own responsibility.

>

> When a person acts abusively toward you and they've always been abusive and

> its a pattern, and they break promises to not be abusive and instead

> continue to be abusive, then its OK, rational, and mentally healthy for you

> to set boundaries to protect yourself from further abuse even if the abusers

> are your parents.

>

> I hope that helps.

>

> -Annie

>

>

> >

> > Hi there,

> >

> > I'm 24, living outside of home.

> >

> > I'm NC with my father a year and a month now and with my mother 8 months.

> >

> > Lately I've been thinking to go and do LC with my mother (phone calls). I

> don't feel I can get LC with my father. Only the imagination of me calling

> him on the phone throws me into anxieties.

> >

> > With all that said, I don't want to offend him personally in anyway.

> >

> > So what I'm asking is - what's better (for my parents sake, if it was

> depended on me, I would stay NC for another year or even more, it's just

> that my siblings and extended family are pressuring me to get in contact

> with them etc. etc.) - again, what's better - to be in phone calls

> connection with my mother only, or not to be in contact at all?

> >

> > Meaning - if I only speak with my mother by phone and not with my father

> - will that offend him, therefore it'll be better not to talk with none of

> them? Or that it is better for me to be in a phone connection with my

> mother, and that won't be seen as an offence by my father?

> >

> > Hope I was clear.

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Jack

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jack,

I know how very much this hurts and I'm sorry. You are correct that your

younger brother's decision to not talk to you is his. You should not be

expected to compromise yourself to save the relationship with him. Sort

everything out and do what is best and safe for YOU.

I have been recently NC with my nada and the hardest part for me is losing

family members that I do have a good relationship with. I have learned that

I cannot have a good relationship with someone like that if they are

enmeshed with nada. At first I tried to continue with family with caution.

Well, my aunt, who had supported me in the past, called me one day and

sounded just like nada. She told me that I was going to regret not talking

to nada and I am depriving my children of a grandmother. She is well aware

that nada puts the kids in dangerous situations but was willing to overlook

that.

The point is that if your brother is being pressured(which it sounds like he

is) by fog to do this it will only get worse. If you go LC you will get te

fog from him for more contact ect. You are not going to fix the

relationship with brother by doing what parents want.

[Guest guest]

Jack,

I know how very much this hurts and I'm sorry. You are correct that your

younger brother's decision to not talk to you is his. You should not be

expected to compromise yourself to save the relationship with him. Sort

everything out and do what is best and safe for YOU.

I have been recently NC with my nada and the hardest part for me is losing

family members that I do have a good relationship with. I have learned that

I cannot have a good relationship with someone like that if they are

enmeshed with nada. At first I tried to continue with family with caution.

Well, my aunt, who had supported me in the past, called me one day and

sounded just like nada. She told me that I was going to regret not talking

to nada and I am depriving my children of a grandmother. She is well aware

that nada puts the kids in dangerous situations but was willing to overlook

that.

The point is that if your brother is being pressured(which it sounds like he

is) by fog to do this it will only get worse. If you go LC you will get te

fog from him for more contact ect. You are not going to fix the

relationship with brother by doing what parents want.

[Guest guest]

Jack, your parents are most certainly manipulating your brother to put pressure

on you. This is called 'triangulation' and typically an abuser(s) will use fear,

obligation, and guilt tactics to accomplish this. On this board it's known as

FOG.

This situation is terrible for you and your brother but again, there's nothing

you can do to stop it (you can only counteract your parents poison). Your

brother sounds very young so there's hope yet though. In my opinion the best

option is to continue to be kind and open to your brother since you value the

relationship. He must work through things in his own good time. Sending him

information about BPD and family dysfunction might help, hey may read it, or

not. Please don't take his behaviour personally because it's not really about

you, or your choices. Reflective listening will help with this too, this

exercise involves repeating messages back to the speaker and asking them if

there's anything else they're feeling with that. Please research this method

also, it could be helpful to your brother who is likely dying inside from your

parents abuse.

Continue to attempt to contact your brother even if he refuses, unless he

specifically tells you to stop trying to contact him, this will show him that

you still want a relationship and over time he may begin to clear some of the

FOG he's in.

You have every right and obligation to yourself to keep your distance from

people that abuse you, including your older brother. It sounds like he might be

a bit narcisisstic, or a lot. Please read up on narcisissm it helped me a lot; I

too have an older brother who is outrageously NPD. They should put my bada's

picture in the dictionary next to 'narcisissm'

It's tough I know, I am LC with my nada and one bada and NO Contact with my NPD

bada. I am sorry you have to deal with all of this but I promise it can get

better, you must always protect yourself first though.

[Guest guest]

Jack, your parents are most certainly manipulating your brother to put pressure

on you. This is called 'triangulation' and typically an abuser(s) will use fear,

obligation, and guilt tactics to accomplish this. On this board it's known as

FOG.

This situation is terrible for you and your brother but again, there's nothing

you can do to stop it (you can only counteract your parents poison). Your

brother sounds very young so there's hope yet though. In my opinion the best

option is to continue to be kind and open to your brother since you value the

relationship. He must work through things in his own good time. Sending him

information about BPD and family dysfunction might help, hey may read it, or

not. Please don't take his behaviour personally because it's not really about

you, or your choices. Reflective listening will help with this too, this

exercise involves repeating messages back to the speaker and asking them if

there's anything else they're feeling with that. Please research this method

also, it could be helpful to your brother who is likely dying inside from your

parents abuse.

Continue to attempt to contact your brother even if he refuses, unless he

specifically tells you to stop trying to contact him, this will show him that

you still want a relationship and over time he may begin to clear some of the

FOG he's in.

You have every right and obligation to yourself to keep your distance from

people that abuse you, including your older brother. It sounds like he might be

a bit narcisisstic, or a lot. Please read up on narcisissm it helped me a lot; I

too have an older brother who is outrageously NPD. They should put my bada's

picture in the dictionary next to 'narcisissm'

It's tough I know, I am LC with my nada and one bada and NO Contact with my NPD

bada. I am sorry you have to deal with all of this but I promise it can get

better, you must always protect yourself first though.

[Guest guest]

Jack, your parents are most certainly manipulating your brother to put pressure

on you. This is called 'triangulation' and typically an abuser(s) will use fear,

obligation, and guilt tactics to accomplish this. On this board it's known as

FOG.

This situation is terrible for you and your brother but again, there's nothing

you can do to stop it (you can only counteract your parents poison). Your

brother sounds very young so there's hope yet though. In my opinion the best

option is to continue to be kind and open to your brother since you value the

relationship. He must work through things in his own good time. Sending him

information about BPD and family dysfunction might help, hey may read it, or

not. Please don't take his behaviour personally because it's not really about

you, or your choices. Reflective listening will help with this too, this

exercise involves repeating messages back to the speaker and asking them if

there's anything else they're feeling with that. Please research this method

also, it could be helpful to your brother who is likely dying inside from your

parents abuse.

Continue to attempt to contact your brother even if he refuses, unless he

specifically tells you to stop trying to contact him, this will show him that

you still want a relationship and over time he may begin to clear some of the

FOG he's in.

You have every right and obligation to yourself to keep your distance from

people that abuse you, including your older brother. It sounds like he might be

a bit narcisisstic, or a lot. Please read up on narcisissm it helped me a lot; I

too have an older brother who is outrageously NPD. They should put my bada's

picture in the dictionary next to 'narcisissm'

It's tough I know, I am LC with my nada and one bada and NO Contact with my NPD

bada. I am sorry you have to deal with all of this but I promise it can get

better, you must always protect yourself first though.

[Guest guest]

Hello Jack,

Unfortunately what you are experiencing is the very essence of a dysfunctional

family-of-origin (foo) dynamic. In families where the parents are overly

controlling and abusive, it is not uncommon for one of the children to be

singled out and unfairly saddled with the role of " the family scapegoat " , the

one everyone blames for any problems the family is having.

It seems to be common for the designated " scapegoat " to eventually decide to

leave his (or her) foo, to get away from the abuse, and this throws the rest of

the foo members into turmoil.

The two scenarios that seem to occur most often in posts here, is that the

dysfunctional foo will band together and close ranks, and will either:

(1) banish the escapee, the " ex-scapegoat " , and forbid anyone in the foo to have

contact, or

(2) the foo will attempt to badger and hound, pressure and coerce the

" ex-scapegoat " into returning to the foo and resuming his assigned role.

(Without you there, somebody else will probably be designated as the " bad kid. " )

Its a kind of " all or nothing " way of thinking, which is typical of borderline

pd: things are " black, or white " . You're either for us 100% or against us 100%,

there's no middle ground.

Again, you're the only one who knows what you can and can't tolerate in the way

of behaviors from your parents and siblings. As an adult, you get to decide

what kind of relationship you want to have with them, and they in turn have the

right to either accept or reject your boundaries or conditions for contact.

Setting up and maintaining boundaries and following through with consequences

can be tiresome, time-consuming and emotionally stressful, but it can be done if

you feel the need to remain in at least some contact with your dysfunctional

family of origin. Its easier to just cut contact, but the result is that you've

made yourself something of a virtual orphan. Both choices have advantages and

disadvantages.

Only you can decide which kind of situation is more tolerable for you.

" No Contact " doesn't have to be permanent, keep in mind. You could say to your

foo, " I just need a break. I need time alone to work some things out for

myself, to heal, to achieve inner peace. I'll let you know when I feel ready to

try getting back in touch again. Thanks for understanding. "

They won't understand or like that at all, but... you're an adult and its OK and

healthy to make decisions that are positive and healing for yourself without

getting the foo's agreement. They may decide that they don't want contact with

you as a consequence, and that's a risk that you need to be aware of and accept.

I hope that helps.

> > > >

> > > > Hi there,

> > > >

> > > > I'm 24, living outside of home.

> > > >

> > > > I'm NC with my father a year and a month now and with my mother 8

months.

> > > >

> > > > Lately I've been thinking to go and do LC with my mother (phone calls).

I

> > > don't feel I can get LC with my father. Only the imagination of me calling

> > > him on the phone throws me into anxieties.

> > > >

> > > > With all that said, I don't want to offend him personally in anyway.

> > > >

> > > > So what I'm asking is - what's better (for my parents sake, if it was

> > > depended on me, I would stay NC for another year or even more, it's just

> > > that my siblings and extended family are pressuring me to get in contact

> > > with them etc. etc.) - again, what's better - to be in phone calls

> > > connection with my mother only, or not to be in contact at all?

> > > >

> > > > Meaning - if I only speak with my mother by phone and not with my father

> > > - will that offend him, therefore it'll be better not to talk with none of

> > > them? Or that it is better for me to be in a phone connection with my

> > > mother, and that won't be seen as an offence by my father?

> > > >

> > > > Hope I was clear.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > > Jack

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Very well said Annie.

Jack, another thing to note is that dysfunctional family roles are very rigid.

Typically the designated roles and their players aren't allowed to change or

grow. Hence the chaos and mayhem when you 'up and leave' the drama. Now whose

going to play your part?

The black and white thinking is also very rigid, there's not a lot of room for

you to be human with complex emotions and feelings. You're entitled to that, all

of us are. So it's definitely ok to take a time-out to regain your balance.

[Guest guest]

Hey everyone,

Thanks you very much for what you've written and all the information you shared.

I feel I understand now things better, and I have a better understanding of ways

in which I should act.

My mother sent me an Email the other day writing a bit of what my younger

brother told her that I told him on our phone conversation about my reasons to

be in NC.

I couldn't believe it! I was sure that it was a between brothers, discreet,

talk, and then he tells my mother about what we talked about.

I don't mind that much about the fact that she knows the content of our talk,

what I mind about is the fact that he went and told her. I mean, it was kind of

obvious to me that it's a talk " between us " .

And I know, in general, that my brother is not the type to do such a thing.

That led me to think what you've mentioned. That probably somehow they

manipulated him to have that conversation with me.

Also, as I've written before, they're involving all of these other family

members (grandmothers, aunts etc.). And some of them are thinking that it's

their job to " fix things " (but I'm setting my boundaries there, I'm not letting

that happen. I used to, but I learned my lesson in the harder way, and now I see

that it's better not to.).

OK, thanks again,

Jack

>

> Very well said Annie.

>

> Jack, another thing to note is that dysfunctional family roles are very rigid.

Typically the designated roles and their players aren't allowed to change or

grow. Hence the chaos and mayhem when you 'up and leave' the drama. Now whose

going to play your part?

>

> The black and white thinking is also very rigid, there's not a lot of room for

you to be human with complex emotions and feelings. You're entitled to that, all

of us are. So it's definitely ok to take a time-out to regain your balance.

>

[Guest guest]

Hey everyone,

Thanks you very much for what you've written and all the information you shared.

I feel I understand now things better, and I have a better understanding of ways

in which I should act.

My mother sent me an Email the other day writing a bit of what my younger

brother told her that I told him on our phone conversation about my reasons to

be in NC.

I couldn't believe it! I was sure that it was a between brothers, discreet,

talk, and then he tells my mother about what we talked about.

I don't mind that much about the fact that she knows the content of our talk,

what I mind about is the fact that he went and told her. I mean, it was kind of

obvious to me that it's a talk " between us " .

And I know, in general, that my brother is not the type to do such a thing.

That led me to think what you've mentioned. That probably somehow they

manipulated him to have that conversation with me.

Also, as I've written before, they're involving all of these other family

members (grandmothers, aunts etc.). And some of them are thinking that it's

their job to " fix things " (but I'm setting my boundaries there, I'm not letting

that happen. I used to, but I learned my lesson in the harder way, and now I see

that it's better not to.).

OK, thanks again,

Jack

>

> Very well said Annie.

>

> Jack, another thing to note is that dysfunctional family roles are very rigid.

Typically the designated roles and their players aren't allowed to change or

grow. Hence the chaos and mayhem when you 'up and leave' the drama. Now whose

going to play your part?

>

> The black and white thinking is also very rigid, there's not a lot of room for

you to be human with complex emotions and feelings. You're entitled to that, all

of us are. So it's definitely ok to take a time-out to regain your balance.

>