Re: Am on Armour and my TSH went higher--Any advice please!!!!

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Going up to 1 grain of Armour is not really such a big deal...I take 2

grains a day, and it is common to have to titrate up to the correct

dose. There will be some fluctuations as you start the medicine, so

don't be too concerned. Fluctuations happen commonly if you have

Hashimoto's so it's good that he ordered the antibodies test. I will be

curious to know if you have the autoimmunity going on. Until you get

those test results, you can up your dose as he requested and hopefully

you'll start noticing some good benefits.

It may be that you have an adrenal issues, and that could very well have

an effect on your throid treatment. Those who have underperforming

adrenals would be better to take Synthroid, even though the Armour is a

more natural hormone. But until those adrenals are treated, according

to the International Hormone society, Synthroid works better. Glad to

hear you are having your cortisol tested too.

Keep copies of your test results--make a binder and store them

chronologically. This way you can see the progression of your treatment

and your results to get a bigger picture of what is going on. I know

you want to know that TSH number! I can feel it coming through your

letter! LOL You'll get it soon enough. Don't panic.

I'm thankful that others are sharing good info with you regarding the

coffee enemas. We've done them for years, and really, have no issues

with them. I am glad you are going to give it a go. I find them to be

very relaxing and often look forward to that quiet time of cleansing. I

hope you'll find that to be the case too, and that they magically do

their thing to reduce your fibroids.

Patty

--- In , " trekkie323 " <trekkie323@...>

wrote:

>

> Hi Patty and all,

> About 6 weeks ago my doctor prescribed Armour Thryoid for me because

> my TSH had measured 4.8. He started me on just a tiny dose of 1/2

> grain (30mg) which I have been taking daily for the 6 weeks since

> then. He told me we would keep remeasuring my TSH and free T3 and

> free T4 and increase the dose as needed, but he believes in keeping a

> person on the lowest needed dose, so their body still makes its own.

>

> So anyway, a couple days ago they retested my TSH and it is actually

> higher than before I started the Armour. I do not know the exact

> number because I just heard the phone message this evening from the

> doctor's office, and they were already closed so I could not call

> them. In the message the nurse just said my TSH was higher and I

> should double my dose of Armour to 1 grain.

>

> I am just concered--actually freaking out a little--especially

> because I don't even know what my new TSH number is. Apparently these

> doctors offices assume patients don't want the details. Anyway, I

> know 1/2 grain is a very low dose, but is it possible that the Armour

> is making my thyroid worse (maybe because I have an adrenal problem

> for example?) and hence maybe I should not double the dose, as they

> told me to do. Or is it more likely that 1/2 grain didn't do anything

> one way or another and my TSH is simply higher because it has daily

> fluctuations and the 1/2 grain just hasn't done anything--in which

> case the doctor would be correct to recommend upping the dose?

>

> By the way, Patty, I did ask him to test my thyroid antibodies too

> when I was there a couple days ago--I just don't have the results

> back on that yet. And I did order the cortisol 4x/day saliva test.

>

> I would really appreciate some advice on this. Should I increase the

> Armour to 1 grain, given that 1/2 grain seemed to have no effect or

> the opposite effect of what I wanted?

>

> Unfortunately this news comes right after finding out my uterine

> fibroid is bigger, so I am freaking out a bit.

>

> By the way, Patty, thank you for your response regarding the coffee

> enemas and uterine fibroids. A member of this group kindly sent me

> some emails indicating that Gerson and others have actually

> recommended coffee enemas for reducing fibroids. So I do plan to try

> them.

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Here is the guideline I was referring to. (number 4) from the International Hormone Society. All 4 should be kept in mind. The first guideline is to start the treatment at very

low doses and then to slowly and gradually increase the dose until

clinical euthyroidism is reached.The second guideline

is to tell the patient to avoid all caffeinated and similar stimulating

drinks that may increase the orthosympathic activity.The third

guideline is to regularly follow-up the patient with a good clinical

interview and examination and laboratory tests every two to twelve

months depending on the patient's needs.The fourth

guideline is to carefully screen for adrenal deficiency in hypothyroid

patients, as some patients with low or borderline low cortisol levels

may poorly tolerate any type of thyroid medication, and in particular

thyroxin-triiodothyronine combinations. (Patty's note: i.e., Armour.) The intolerance may come from

over-activity of the orthosympathic nervous system that often

accompanies states of low Cortisol, and an excessive and rapid

conversion of thyroxin to triiodothyronine that puts these patients

easily into a state of excess T3 and thus hyperthyroidism, and further

increases the orthosympathic activity. In patients with Cortisol

deficiency, we recommend the physician to treat the low cortisol state

prior to or simultaneously with the thyroid treatment. If not, thyroxin

alone (Patty's note: i.e. Synthroid) may be the better treatment of hypothyroidism in the presence of

an untreated cortisol deficiency. In most other instances, thyroxin and

triiodothyronine remains the first, but not exclusive, choice for

treatment of hypothyroidism for the International Hormone Society's

Consensus Group. Concerning the debate about which combination treatment works best: synthetic T3-T4 or desiccated thyroid, the Consensus Group states the following:Reports

of patients feeling better on desiccated thyroid may have scientific

evidence as these preparations contain along with T3 and T4 a number of

other substances that may have some thyroid activity as diiodo-and

monoiodo-thyronines. In addition, the binding of much of the thyroid

hormones to the bigger thyroglobulin molecule allows a slower

intestinal absorption and, later, once arrived in the bloodstream, a

slower release of thyroid hormones in the blood, thereby insuring a

more persistent action and a better tolerance by spreading the action

over a longer period of time. Thus, desiccated thyroid may work better.

The view that the potency of thyroid preparations of animal

origin may have more fluctuations has arguments. For this reason,

preference is given to preparations that are officially registered and

well-controlled. It must be said that the frequent FDA-recalls of

poorly reliable, less potent than announced thyroxin preparations of

various pharmaceutical firms in the USA, makes thyroxin not a better

alternative. In the light of the Mad Cow's Disease, the International

Hormone Society does not recommend the use of desiccated thyroid of

beef origin. For these reasons, the position adopted by the Consensus

Group members of The International Hormone Society is that both type of

T3-T4 preparations have their pros and cons, and the freedom of choice

between these two should be left to the physician.> >> > Hi Patty and all,> > About 6 weeks ago my doctor prescribed Armour Thryoid for me because> > my TSH had measured 4.8. He started me on just a tiny dose of 1/2> > grain (30mg) which I have been taking daily for the 6 weeks since> > then. He told me we would keep remeasuring my TSH and free T3 and> > free T4 and increase the dose as needed, but he believes in keeping a> > person on the lowest needed dose, so their body still makes its own.> >> > So anyway, a couple days ago they retested my TSH and it is actually> > higher than before I started the Armour. I do not know the exact> > number because I just heard the phone message this evening from the> > doctor's office, and they were already closed so I could not call> > them. In the message the nurse just said my TSH was higher and I> > should double my dose of Armour to 1 grain.> >> > I am just concered--actually freaking out a little--especially> > because I don't even know what my new TSH number is. Apparently these> > doctors offices assume patients don't want the details. Anyway, I> > know 1/2 grain is a very low dose, but is it possible that the Armour> > is making my thyroid worse (maybe because I have an adrenal problem> > for example?) and hence maybe I should not double the dose, as they> > told me to do. Or is it more likely that 1/2 grain didn't do anything> > one way or another and my TSH is simply higher because it has daily> > fluctuations and the 1/2 grain just hasn't done anything--in which> > case the doctor would be correct to recommend upping the dose?> >> > By the way, Patty, I did ask him to test my thyroid antibodies too> > when I was there a couple days ago--I just don't have the results> > back on that yet. And I did order the cortisol 4x/day saliva test.> >> > I would really appreciate some advice on this. Should I increase the> > Armour to 1 grain, given that 1/2 grain seemed to have no effect or> > the opposite effect of what I wanted?> >> > Unfortunately this news comes right after finding out my uterine> > fibroid is bigger, so I am freaking out a bit.> >> > By the way, Patty, thank you for your response regarding the coffee> > enemas and uterine fibroids. A member of this group kindly sent me> > some emails indicating that Gerson and others have actually> > recommended coffee enemas for reducing fibroids. So I do plan to try> > them.> >> > Thanks,> > > >>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Patty,

Yes, I think I will go up to 1 grain of Armour, while also awaiting

my cortisol test kit and results. And then will have to decide what

to do after getting my cortisol results.

Yes, it is frustrating how these doctors offices often don't give the

details (like my actual numbers). I often get calls just saying " your

result is high " or " your result is low " and they don't want to go

into detail, and I even find when I ask for the written lab results,

they tend to sound a little annoyed--more paperwork for them and I

think they are used to patients not asking questions or for lab

records. The old school was just for a patient to listen to what the

doctor said and not ask too many questions. They are not used to

educated patients who don't necesarily trust everything their doctors

say. In fact there have been times I was told my various lab tests

were normal only to request a copy and see that I had tests out of

the normal range, and I had to call and point it out to them.

Patients really have to be highly proactive in this regard.

I would be a little nervous about switching to Synthroid (even for

the short term) only because I am constantly reading how one must

take the bioidenticals. But what do I know? This is such a

controversial area.

Did you have a problem with your adrenals, and if so, what was the

remedy for you?

Thanks again,

> >

> > Hi Patty and all,

> > About 6 weeks ago my doctor prescribed Armour Thryoid for me

because

> > my TSH had measured 4.8. He started me on just a tiny dose of 1/2

> > grain (30mg) which I have been taking daily for the 6 weeks since

> > then. He told me we would keep remeasuring my TSH and free T3 and

> > free T4 and increase the dose as needed, but he believes in

keeping a

> > person on the lowest needed dose, so their body still makes its

own.

> >

> > So anyway, a couple days ago they retested my TSH and it is

actually

> > higher than before I started the Armour. I do not know the exact

> > number because I just heard the phone message this evening from

the

> > doctor's office, and they were already closed so I could not call

> > them. In the message the nurse just said my TSH was higher and I

> > should double my dose of Armour to 1 grain.

> >

> > I am just concered--actually freaking out a little--especially

> > because I don't even know what my new TSH number is. Apparently

these

> > doctors offices assume patients don't want the details. Anyway, I

> > know 1/2 grain is a very low dose, but is it possible that the

Armour

> > is making my thyroid worse (maybe because I have an adrenal

problem

> > for example?) and hence maybe I should not double the dose, as

they

> > told me to do. Or is it more likely that 1/2 grain didn't do

anything

> > one way or another and my TSH is simply higher because it has

daily

> > fluctuations and the 1/2 grain just hasn't done anything--in which

> > case the doctor would be correct to recommend upping the dose?

> >

> > By the way, Patty, I did ask him to test my thyroid antibodies too

> > when I was there a couple days ago--I just don't have the results

> > back on that yet. And I did order the cortisol 4x/day saliva test.

> >

> > I would really appreciate some advice on this. Should I increase

the

> > Armour to 1 grain, given that 1/2 grain seemed to have no effect

or

> > the opposite effect of what I wanted?

> >

> > Unfortunately this news comes right after finding out my uterine

> > fibroid is bigger, so I am freaking out a bit.

> >

> > By the way, Patty, thank you for your response regarding the

coffee

> > enemas and uterine fibroids. A member of this group kindly sent me

> > some emails indicating that Gerson and others have actually

> > recommended coffee enemas for reducing fibroids. So I do plan to

try

> > them.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for this additional info Patty. I believe my doctor is doing

everything right with the exception of looking at my adrenals.

When I was recently at my doctor's for the repeat thyroid testing, I

asked him to test my cortisol (even though I know one blood cortisol

test won't tell the story). His response (as he is an internal med

doctor) was that if I wanted to look into cortisol, he would refer me

to an endocrinologist. So he did not do that test. But at least he

was willing to test my thyroid antibodies along with the TSH, T3 and

T4.

He is a very nice doctor. Although he is conventional, he is open and

nice and spends tons of time with me (never rushes) and calls me

personally if I ask him to, and is on my health plan. Those qualities

alone are hard to find.

In regard to my hypo condition, he initally wanted to give me

synthroid but when I asked for armour, he said sure. He also wrote me

a script for LDN (an alternative MS med), which supposedly many

doctors will not write. So all and all I am lucky to have found him.

But if it turns out my cortisol/adrenals are impaired, which I do

expect, I don't know what I will need to do at that point. The reason

I am so focused on this is that I believe if I could reduce my

fatigue and brain fog (through the proper hormone balancing), I would

be much higher functioning than I am now and maybe even able to go

back to work!

Well again, I guess after getting and taking that cortisol saliva

test, I'll have a better sense of what courses I need to pursue. I

doubt my regular doc, would be willing to prescribe Cortef -- as an

internal medicine doctor, there is only so far he will step out of

his scope of knowledge--he would more likely prefer to play " traffic

cop " and send me to an endocrinologist. And most of these endos use

the synthetic meds. I haven't found a good bioidentical HRT

specialist in my area--plus my health plan does not cover specialists

until after I have met my annual $2500 deductible. That is another

reason I prefer to work with my internal med doctor-my insurance

covers internal med docs without applying the deductible.

Well thanks for reading. As might be gleaned from this email, I am

really anxious and confused, but mostly anxious. I guess to find out

witin the past couple days that the fibroid is bigger and the thyroid

is worse, on top of the regular MS stuff I am dealing with is just a

little too much for me to handle, especially while I feel I have

worked so hard on my health the past 2 years and then these things

seem to indicate that I am getting worse in certain areas.

Thanks for reading.

alineSupport , " glory2glory1401 " <glory2glory1401@...>

wrote:

>

> Here is the guideline I was referring to. (number 4) from the

> International Hormone Society. All 4 should be kept in mind.

>

>

>

> 1. The first guideline is to start the treatment at very low

doses

> and then to slowly and gradually increase the dose until clinical

> euthyroidism is reached.

> 2. The second guideline is to tell the patient to avoid all

> caffeinated and similar stimulating drinks that may increase the

> orthosympathic activity.

> 3. The third guideline is to regularly follow-up the patient

with a

> good clinical interview and examination and laboratory tests every

two

> to twelve months depending on the patient's needs.

> 4. The fourth guideline is to carefully screen for adrenal

deficiency

> in hypothyroid patients, as some patients with low or borderline low

> cortisol levels may poorly tolerate any type of thyroid medication,

and

> in particular thyroxin-triiodothyronine combinations. (Patty's

note:

> i.e., Armour.) The intolerance may come from over-activity of the

> orthosympathic nervous system that often accompanies states of low

> Cortisol, and an excessive and rapid conversion of thyroxin to

> triiodothyronine that puts these patients easily into a state of

excess

> T3 and thus hyperthyroidism, and further increases the

orthosympathic

> activity. In patients with Cortisol deficiency, we recommend the

> physician to treat the low cortisol state prior to or simultaneously

> with the thyroid treatment. If not, thyroxin alone (Patty's note:

i.e.

> Synthroid) may be the better treatment of hypothyroidism in the

> presence of an untreated cortisol deficiency. In most other

instances,

> thyroxin and triiodothyronine remains the first, but not exclusive,

> choice for treatment of hypothyroidism for the International Hormone

> Society's Consensus Group.

>

>

> Concerning the debate about which combination treatment works best:

> synthetic T3-T4 or desiccated thyroid, the Consensus Group states

the

> following:

>

> Reports of patients feeling better on desiccated thyroid may have

> scientific evidence as these preparations contain along with T3 and

T4 a

> number of other substances that may have some thyroid activity as

> diiodo-and monoiodo-thyronines. In addition, the binding of much of

the

> thyroid hormones to the bigger thyroglobulin molecule allows a

slower

> intestinal absorption and, later, once arrived in the bloodstream, a

> slower release of thyroid hormones in the blood, thereby insuring a

more

> persistent action and a better tolerance by spreading the action

over a

> longer period of time. Thus, desiccated thyroid may work better.

>

> The view that the potency of thyroid preparations of animal origin

may

> have more fluctuations has arguments. For this reason, preference is

> given to preparations that are officially registered and

> well-controlled. It must be said that the frequent FDA-recalls of

poorly

> reliable, less potent than announced thyroxin preparations of

various

> pharmaceutical firms in the USA, makes thyroxin not a better

> alternative. In the light of the Mad Cow's Disease, the

International

> Hormone Society does not recommend the use of desiccated thyroid of

beef

> origin. For these reasons, the position adopted by the Consensus

Group

> members of The International Hormone Society is that both type of

T3-T4

> preparations have their pros and cons, and the freedom of choice

between

> these two should be left to the physician.

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Hi Patty and all,

> > > About 6 weeks ago my doctor prescribed Armour Thryoid for me

because

> > > my TSH had measured 4.8. He started me on just a tiny dose of

1/2

> > > grain (30mg) which I have been taking daily for the 6 weeks

since

> > > then. He told me we would keep remeasuring my TSH and free T3

and

> > > free T4 and increase the dose as needed, but he believes in

keeping

> a

> > > person on the lowest needed dose, so their body still makes its

own.

> > >

> > > So anyway, a couple days ago they retested my TSH and it is

actually

> > > higher than before I started the Armour. I do not know the exact

> > > number because I just heard the phone message this evening from

the

> > > doctor's office, and they were already closed so I could not

call

> > > them. In the message the nurse just said my TSH was higher and I

> > > should double my dose of Armour to 1 grain.

> > >

> > > I am just concered--actually freaking out a little--especially

> > > because I don't even know what my new TSH number is. Apparently

> these

> > > doctors offices assume patients don't want the details. Anyway,

I

> > > know 1/2 grain is a very low dose, but is it possible that the

> Armour

> > > is making my thyroid worse (maybe because I have an adrenal

problem

> > > for example?) and hence maybe I should not double the dose, as

they

> > > told me to do. Or is it more likely that 1/2 grain didn't do

> anything

> > > one way or another and my TSH is simply higher because it has

daily

> > > fluctuations and the 1/2 grain just hasn't done anything--in

which

> > > case the doctor would be correct to recommend upping the dose?

> > >

> > > By the way, Patty, I did ask him to test my thyroid antibodies

too

> > > when I was there a couple days ago--I just don't have the

results

> > > back on that yet. And I did order the cortisol 4x/day saliva

test.

> > >

> > > I would really appreciate some advice on this. Should I

increase the

> > > Armour to 1 grain, given that 1/2 grain seemed to have no

effect or

> > > the opposite effect of what I wanted?

> > >

> > > Unfortunately this news comes right after finding out my uterine

> > > fibroid is bigger, so I am freaking out a bit.

> > >

> > > By the way, Patty, thank you for your response regarding the

coffee

> > > enemas and uterine fibroids. A member of this group kindly sent

me

> > > some emails indicating that Gerson and others have actually

> > > recommended coffee enemas for reducing fibroids. So I do plan

to try

> > > them.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

Breathe in. Breathe out. Don't stress (it's not good!) I understand

your confusion with all the info, but just take one test at a time,

one day at a time and decide what path you want to follow..then give

it your best effort. You are bound to find your answers with the help

of your doctors and your research. When we work together, we get much

farther ahead.

Patty

> > > >

> > > > Hi Patty and all,

> > > > About 6 weeks ago my doctor prescribed Armour Thryoid for me

> because

> > > > my TSH had measured 4.8. He started me on just a tiny dose of

> 1/2

> > > > grain (30mg) which I have been taking daily for the 6 weeks

> since

> > > > then. He told me we would keep remeasuring my TSH and free T3

> and

> > > > free T4 and increase the dose as needed, but he believes in

> keeping

> > a

> > > > person on the lowest needed dose, so their body still makes its

> own.

> > > >

> > > > So anyway, a couple days ago they retested my TSH and it is

> actually

> > > > higher than before I started the Armour. I do not know the exact

> > > > number because I just heard the phone message this evening from

> the

> > > > doctor's office, and they were already closed so I could not

> call

> > > > them. In the message the nurse just said my TSH was higher and I

> > > > should double my dose of Armour to 1 grain.

> > > >

> > > > I am just concered--actually freaking out a little--especially

> > > > because I don't even know what my new TSH number is. Apparently

> > these

> > > > doctors offices assume patients don't want the details. Anyway,

> I

> > > > know 1/2 grain is a very low dose, but is it possible that the

> > Armour

> > > > is making my thyroid worse (maybe because I have an adrenal

> problem

> > > > for example?) and hence maybe I should not double the dose, as

> they

> > > > told me to do. Or is it more likely that 1/2 grain didn't do

> > anything

> > > > one way or another and my TSH is simply higher because it has

> daily

> > > > fluctuations and the 1/2 grain just hasn't done anything--in

> which

> > > > case the doctor would be correct to recommend upping the dose?

> > > >

> > > > By the way, Patty, I did ask him to test my thyroid antibodies

> too

> > > > when I was there a couple days ago--I just don't have the

> results

> > > > back on that yet. And I did order the cortisol 4x/day saliva

> test.

> > > >

> > > > I would really appreciate some advice on this. Should I

> increase the

> > > > Armour to 1 grain, given that 1/2 grain seemed to have no

> effect or

> > > > the opposite effect of what I wanted?

> > > >

> > > > Unfortunately this news comes right after finding out my uterine

> > > > fibroid is bigger, so I am freaking out a bit.

> > > >

> > > > By the way, Patty, thank you for your response regarding the

> coffee

> > > > enemas and uterine fibroids. A member of this group kindly sent

> me

> > > > some emails indicating that Gerson and others have actually

> > > > recommended coffee enemas for reducing fibroids. So I do plan

> to try

> > > > them.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>