Guest guest Posted August 24, 2010 Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 I wish I had some helpful advice, but all I can do is send a virtual hug and say that I think that's sweet that you are being so kind to your dad. It may be that this is " as good as it gets " for him; just having a safe place to sleep when he needs it. You might try giving him some of the books about borderline pd and other personality disorders so that he at least can understand that the dysfunctional dynamic of his relationship is due to his wife's mental illness and his own co-dependency. I think my (now deceased) dad was in that category. He used to joke that he'd been married so long that he didn't remember not being married; he'd jokingly speculate that he must have been born married. Sometimes when individuals have been in a dysfunctional marriage for a very long time and its all they know, they prefer the familiar to the scary unknown. Or, it feels better to them to be in a bad relationship than alone. My dad had some personal reasons for not leaving my nada, and I think one of them was simply a grim determination to never abandon his family. I think that loyalty was both honorable and very sad. -Annie > > My nada was never physically violent with me or my brother, although she was rather verbally abusive. She was beat up by her dad as a kid and so promised herself never to lay a hand on her own children. (The fact that she controlled herself with that makes me wish wonder why she can claim no self control with other things she does...) Anyway, I guess she never really made such a promise about her HUSBAND. > > My mom is the hermit type and my dad really fits the huntsman husband perfectly. Their relationship has really been pretty bad the last 10 years (they have been married 35 years). My dad hasn't worked in over 2 years since the economy crashed and she is soley dependent on him. He used to be really patient with her but lately he has lost all patience. When she starts yelling at him he just leaves and comes to my house. He was often sleeping on my or my brothers couch in our apartments a couple years ago. Last year I rented a house with my partner and we made a bedroom just for him. > > Sometimes when my dad comes over he has a bruise or scrape on his face or head. He has admitted to me she gets violent. She punches him (which usually doesn't hurt him or leave a mark) or throws things at him (that's when he gets bumps on his head). He says can't really fight back because he is really quite a lot larger and stronger than her. The cops have been involved many times (when neighbors or whitenesses call) but they really don't help much. When she is arrested they don't know how to deal with her severe mental illness, she ends up shackled to the floor, and when she gets out later it's my dad who ends up paying all the legal fees. > > Both of my parents complain to me about the other, but neither will take my advice to get a divorce. > > Do you think I just enabling him to not leave her? I feel so bad for him, but at the same time, he's an adult, he should know nothing will change. He stays at my place about 5 nights a week now. (a couple nights a week she's in a " good " phase and wants him back, which he always does when she asks. Until she starts yelling again and then he's back at my place.) He says she has no one else (true) and that she'll just end up killing herself if he doesn't take care of her (also might be true, who knows? but should he sacrifice himself for her??). Well even if I didn't offer my place, he'd sleep on my brother's couch again, or in his car (he's done that as well.) I guess if I can't help him just leave her like he should the least I can do is help him have a good night's sleep. > > I can't tell you how odd it feels to have my father in this situation. My father has a PhD in math, and used to be making $150k a year. He was always my " rock " in our house, the one thing I could always depend on. I believe he's the only reason I don't have BPD myself. When I've lost jobs or insurance, he always had money to help me out. Suddenly I'm his support. I wish there was more I could do. When I was a kid I wished he would divorce my mom and take me away from her, and now I wish I could take HIM away from her, but he's not a kid, and it really seems like I can't do shit. > > Wow it looks like this email really has no point whatsoever, sorry about that. I just know you all will understand my frustration. Maybe some of you have experience with this? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2010 Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 I wish I had some helpful advice, but all I can do is send a virtual hug and say that I think that's sweet that you are being so kind to your dad. It may be that this is " as good as it gets " for him; just having a safe place to sleep when he needs it. You might try giving him some of the books about borderline pd and other personality disorders so that he at least can understand that the dysfunctional dynamic of his relationship is due to his wife's mental illness and his own co-dependency. I think my (now deceased) dad was in that category. He used to joke that he'd been married so long that he didn't remember not being married; he'd jokingly speculate that he must have been born married. Sometimes when individuals have been in a dysfunctional marriage for a very long time and its all they know, they prefer the familiar to the scary unknown. Or, it feels better to them to be in a bad relationship than alone. My dad had some personal reasons for not leaving my nada, and I think one of them was simply a grim determination to never abandon his family. I think that loyalty was both honorable and very sad. -Annie > > My nada was never physically violent with me or my brother, although she was rather verbally abusive. She was beat up by her dad as a kid and so promised herself never to lay a hand on her own children. (The fact that she controlled herself with that makes me wish wonder why she can claim no self control with other things she does...) Anyway, I guess she never really made such a promise about her HUSBAND. > > My mom is the hermit type and my dad really fits the huntsman husband perfectly. Their relationship has really been pretty bad the last 10 years (they have been married 35 years). My dad hasn't worked in over 2 years since the economy crashed and she is soley dependent on him. He used to be really patient with her but lately he has lost all patience. When she starts yelling at him he just leaves and comes to my house. He was often sleeping on my or my brothers couch in our apartments a couple years ago. Last year I rented a house with my partner and we made a bedroom just for him. > > Sometimes when my dad comes over he has a bruise or scrape on his face or head. He has admitted to me she gets violent. She punches him (which usually doesn't hurt him or leave a mark) or throws things at him (that's when he gets bumps on his head). He says can't really fight back because he is really quite a lot larger and stronger than her. The cops have been involved many times (when neighbors or whitenesses call) but they really don't help much. When she is arrested they don't know how to deal with her severe mental illness, she ends up shackled to the floor, and when she gets out later it's my dad who ends up paying all the legal fees. > > Both of my parents complain to me about the other, but neither will take my advice to get a divorce. > > Do you think I just enabling him to not leave her? I feel so bad for him, but at the same time, he's an adult, he should know nothing will change. He stays at my place about 5 nights a week now. (a couple nights a week she's in a " good " phase and wants him back, which he always does when she asks. Until she starts yelling again and then he's back at my place.) He says she has no one else (true) and that she'll just end up killing herself if he doesn't take care of her (also might be true, who knows? but should he sacrifice himself for her??). Well even if I didn't offer my place, he'd sleep on my brother's couch again, or in his car (he's done that as well.) I guess if I can't help him just leave her like he should the least I can do is help him have a good night's sleep. > > I can't tell you how odd it feels to have my father in this situation. My father has a PhD in math, and used to be making $150k a year. He was always my " rock " in our house, the one thing I could always depend on. I believe he's the only reason I don't have BPD myself. When I've lost jobs or insurance, he always had money to help me out. Suddenly I'm his support. I wish there was more I could do. When I was a kid I wished he would divorce my mom and take me away from her, and now I wish I could take HIM away from her, but he's not a kid, and it really seems like I can't do shit. > > Wow it looks like this email really has no point whatsoever, sorry about that. I just know you all will understand my frustration. Maybe some of you have experience with this? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2010 Report Share Posted August 25, 2010 After I left home and had to time to speculate on my life, I also realized my dad wasn't the saint I used to think he was. If he was, he WOULD have taken me away. I once asked him why he didn't and he said " I thought you needed a mother. And she wasn't really that bad then. " True, she was more functional when I was young, but I was left all alone with her the first 3 years of my life, and it was like leaving a baby with a toddler. During my pre-teen and teen years she was really bad, and he still didn't leave. He defended me, but only when he was home. In my opinion, my nada was only half of a mother, and probably none would have been better. I also see now what you're saying about the parentification... he definitely told me since my mother was sick that I had to be the " strong one " . If I told him something mean she said to me he would say " she doesn't mean it, she's just sick. She can't help it, she really loves you " . Yes, she's sick, but it seems that was just removing her responsibility for her actions, the same way she thinks she's not responsible. He even would tell me not to say or do certain things that would trigger her. If anything negative happened that she didn't see we all wouldn't tell my nada because it could upset her. He just enforced all the eggshell walking. I guess I do think I'm enabling him, but I've come to think he'll NEVER leave her, no matter what I do, so I might as well let him have some happiness here. I do think I will take your advice and get some DV literature. He's gotten so used to coming here now that at the first sign of nada's craziness he leaves, so the violence is extremely rare. When I was young he would put up with her verbal abuse for as long as it took her to tire out. I do think at least not putting up with that is good, even if he won't permanently leave her. It makes no sense to me, I couldn't WAIT to get out of that house, and left when I was 17. Spending 35 years with that woman sounds horrible, there is no way my dad is unaffected. (he likes to think he is) Casey > > > > From: slingshot2hell <slingshot2hell@...<slingshot2hell%40gmail.com> > > > > > Subject: Spousal abuse > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 <WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, August 24, 2010, 8:25 PM > > > > > > > > > > My nada was never physically violent with me or my brother, although she > > was rather verbally abusive. She was beat up by her dad as a kid and so > > promised herself never to lay a hand on her own children. (The fact that she > > controlled herself with that makes me wish wonder why she can claim no self > > control with other things she does...) Anyway, I guess she never really made > > such a promise about her HUSBAND. > > > > My mom is the hermit type and my dad really fits the huntsman husband > > perfectly. Their relationship has really been pretty bad the last 10 years > > (they have been married 35 years). My dad hasn't worked in over 2 years > > since the economy crashed and she is soley dependent on him. He used to be > > really patient with her but lately he has lost all patience. When she starts > > yelling at him he just leaves and comes to my house. He was often sleeping > > on my or my brothers couch in our apartments a couple years ago. Last year I > > rented a house with my partner and we made a bedroom just for him. > > > > Sometimes when my dad comes over he has a bruise or scrape on his face or > > head. He has admitted to me she gets violent. She punches him (which usually > > doesn't hurt him or leave a mark) or throws things at him (that's when he > > gets bumps on his head). He says can't really fight back because he is > > really quite a lot larger and stronger than her. The cops have been involved > > many times (when neighbors or whitenesses call) but they really don't help > > much. When she is arrested they don't know how to deal with her severe > > mental illness, she ends up shackled to the floor, and when she gets out > > later it's my dad who ends up paying all the legal fees. > > > > Both of my parents complain to me about the other, but neither will take my > > advice to get a divorce. > > > > Do you think I just enabling him to not leave her? I feel so bad for him, > > but at the same time, he's an adult, he should know nothing will change. He > > stays at my place about 5 nights a week now. (a couple nights a week she's > > in a " good " phase and wants him back, which he always does when she asks. > > Until she starts yelling again and then he's back at my place.) He says she > > has no one else (true) and that she'll just end up killing herself if he > > doesn't take care of her (also might be true, who knows? but should he > > sacrifice himself for her??). Well even if I didn't offer my place, he'd > > sleep on my brother's couch again, or in his car (he's done that as well.) I > > guess if I can't help him just leave her like he should the least I can do > > is help him have a good night's sleep. > > > > I can't tell you how odd it feels to have my father in this situation. My > > father has a PhD in math, and used to be making $150k a year. He was always > > my " rock " in our house, the one thing I could always depend on. I believe > > he's the only reason I don't have BPD myself. When I've lost jobs or > > insurance, he always had money to help me out. Suddenly I'm his support. I > > wish there was more I could do. When I was a kid I wished he would divorce > > my mom and take me away from her, and now I wish I could take HIM away from > > her, but he's not a kid, and it really seems like I can't do shit. > > > > Wow it looks like this email really has no point whatsoever, sorry about > > that. I just know you all will understand my frustration. Maybe some of you > > have experience with this? > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2010 Report Share Posted August 25, 2010 My dad has read books on BPD, we have known about her illness for at least 20 years. He's just in denial that his only option is to leave. A few years ago he told me how he went to a psychologist to get advice on how to deal with her, and the psychologist said " leave now " . My dad said that wasn't the advice he was looking for and didn't go back. That's the only reasonable advice, though - my nada refuses to stay in any treatment or on any medication. My dad is also very loyal, and I think he feels like he has an obligation to her, he is her family as the mother of his children. I have admired that loyalty, but think it can be destructive when your loyal to someone like my nada. I really don't think he thinks it's better to be with her than alone, he has even told me he wished she would find someone else to take care of her so he COULD be alone. It's really just all self-sacrifice, he is determined to take care of her because no one else will. Casey > > > > My nada was never physically violent with me or my brother, although she was rather verbally abusive. She was beat up by her dad as a kid and so promised herself never to lay a hand on her own children. (The fact that she controlled herself with that makes me wish wonder why she can claim no self control with other things she does...) Anyway, I guess she never really made such a promise about her HUSBAND. > > > > My mom is the hermit type and my dad really fits the huntsman husband perfectly. Their relationship has really been pretty bad the last 10 years (they have been married 35 years). My dad hasn't worked in over 2 years since the economy crashed and she is soley dependent on him. He used to be really patient with her but lately he has lost all patience. When she starts yelling at him he just leaves and comes to my house. He was often sleeping on my or my brothers couch in our apartments a couple years ago. Last year I rented a house with my partner and we made a bedroom just for him. > > > > Sometimes when my dad comes over he has a bruise or scrape on his face or head. He has admitted to me she gets violent. She punches him (which usually doesn't hurt him or leave a mark) or throws things at him (that's when he gets bumps on his head). He says can't really fight back because he is really quite a lot larger and stronger than her. The cops have been involved many times (when neighbors or whitenesses call) but they really don't help much. When she is arrested they don't know how to deal with her severe mental illness, she ends up shackled to the floor, and when she gets out later it's my dad who ends up paying all the legal fees. > > > > Both of my parents complain to me about the other, but neither will take my advice to get a divorce. > > > > Do you think I just enabling him to not leave her? I feel so bad for him, but at the same time, he's an adult, he should know nothing will change. He stays at my place about 5 nights a week now. (a couple nights a week she's in a " good " phase and wants him back, which he always does when she asks. Until she starts yelling again and then he's back at my place.) He says she has no one else (true) and that she'll just end up killing herself if he doesn't take care of her (also might be true, who knows? but should he sacrifice himself for her??). Well even if I didn't offer my place, he'd sleep on my brother's couch again, or in his car (he's done that as well.) I guess if I can't help him just leave her like he should the least I can do is help him have a good night's sleep. > > > > I can't tell you how odd it feels to have my father in this situation. My father has a PhD in math, and used to be making $150k a year. He was always my " rock " in our house, the one thing I could always depend on. I believe he's the only reason I don't have BPD myself. When I've lost jobs or insurance, he always had money to help me out. Suddenly I'm his support. I wish there was more I could do. When I was a kid I wished he would divorce my mom and take me away from her, and now I wish I could take HIM away from her, but he's not a kid, and it really seems like I can't do shit. > > > > Wow it looks like this email really has no point whatsoever, sorry about that. I just know you all will understand my frustration. Maybe some of you have experience with this? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2010 Report Share Posted August 25, 2010 My dad has read books on BPD, we have known about her illness for at least 20 years. He's just in denial that his only option is to leave. A few years ago he told me how he went to a psychologist to get advice on how to deal with her, and the psychologist said " leave now " . My dad said that wasn't the advice he was looking for and didn't go back. That's the only reasonable advice, though - my nada refuses to stay in any treatment or on any medication. My dad is also very loyal, and I think he feels like he has an obligation to her, he is her family as the mother of his children. I have admired that loyalty, but think it can be destructive when your loyal to someone like my nada. I really don't think he thinks it's better to be with her than alone, he has even told me he wished she would find someone else to take care of her so he COULD be alone. It's really just all self-sacrifice, he is determined to take care of her because no one else will. Casey > > > > My nada was never physically violent with me or my brother, although she was rather verbally abusive. She was beat up by her dad as a kid and so promised herself never to lay a hand on her own children. (The fact that she controlled herself with that makes me wish wonder why she can claim no self control with other things she does...) Anyway, I guess she never really made such a promise about her HUSBAND. > > > > My mom is the hermit type and my dad really fits the huntsman husband perfectly. Their relationship has really been pretty bad the last 10 years (they have been married 35 years). My dad hasn't worked in over 2 years since the economy crashed and she is soley dependent on him. He used to be really patient with her but lately he has lost all patience. When she starts yelling at him he just leaves and comes to my house. He was often sleeping on my or my brothers couch in our apartments a couple years ago. Last year I rented a house with my partner and we made a bedroom just for him. > > > > Sometimes when my dad comes over he has a bruise or scrape on his face or head. He has admitted to me she gets violent. She punches him (which usually doesn't hurt him or leave a mark) or throws things at him (that's when he gets bumps on his head). He says can't really fight back because he is really quite a lot larger and stronger than her. The cops have been involved many times (when neighbors or whitenesses call) but they really don't help much. When she is arrested they don't know how to deal with her severe mental illness, she ends up shackled to the floor, and when she gets out later it's my dad who ends up paying all the legal fees. > > > > Both of my parents complain to me about the other, but neither will take my advice to get a divorce. > > > > Do you think I just enabling him to not leave her? I feel so bad for him, but at the same time, he's an adult, he should know nothing will change. He stays at my place about 5 nights a week now. (a couple nights a week she's in a " good " phase and wants him back, which he always does when she asks. Until she starts yelling again and then he's back at my place.) He says she has no one else (true) and that she'll just end up killing herself if he doesn't take care of her (also might be true, who knows? but should he sacrifice himself for her??). Well even if I didn't offer my place, he'd sleep on my brother's couch again, or in his car (he's done that as well.) I guess if I can't help him just leave her like he should the least I can do is help him have a good night's sleep. > > > > I can't tell you how odd it feels to have my father in this situation. My father has a PhD in math, and used to be making $150k a year. He was always my " rock " in our house, the one thing I could always depend on. I believe he's the only reason I don't have BPD myself. When I've lost jobs or insurance, he always had money to help me out. Suddenly I'm his support. I wish there was more I could do. When I was a kid I wished he would divorce my mom and take me away from her, and now I wish I could take HIM away from her, but he's not a kid, and it really seems like I can't do shit. > > > > Wow it looks like this email really has no point whatsoever, sorry about that. I just know you all will understand my frustration. Maybe some of you have experience with this? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2010 Report Share Posted August 25, 2010 My dad has read books on BPD, we have known about her illness for at least 20 years. He's just in denial that his only option is to leave. A few years ago he told me how he went to a psychologist to get advice on how to deal with her, and the psychologist said " leave now " . My dad said that wasn't the advice he was looking for and didn't go back. That's the only reasonable advice, though - my nada refuses to stay in any treatment or on any medication. My dad is also very loyal, and I think he feels like he has an obligation to her, he is her family as the mother of his children. I have admired that loyalty, but think it can be destructive when your loyal to someone like my nada. I really don't think he thinks it's better to be with her than alone, he has even told me he wished she would find someone else to take care of her so he COULD be alone. It's really just all self-sacrifice, he is determined to take care of her because no one else will. Casey > > > > My nada was never physically violent with me or my brother, although she was rather verbally abusive. She was beat up by her dad as a kid and so promised herself never to lay a hand on her own children. (The fact that she controlled herself with that makes me wish wonder why she can claim no self control with other things she does...) Anyway, I guess she never really made such a promise about her HUSBAND. > > > > My mom is the hermit type and my dad really fits the huntsman husband perfectly. Their relationship has really been pretty bad the last 10 years (they have been married 35 years). My dad hasn't worked in over 2 years since the economy crashed and she is soley dependent on him. He used to be really patient with her but lately he has lost all patience. When she starts yelling at him he just leaves and comes to my house. He was often sleeping on my or my brothers couch in our apartments a couple years ago. Last year I rented a house with my partner and we made a bedroom just for him. > > > > Sometimes when my dad comes over he has a bruise or scrape on his face or head. He has admitted to me she gets violent. She punches him (which usually doesn't hurt him or leave a mark) or throws things at him (that's when he gets bumps on his head). He says can't really fight back because he is really quite a lot larger and stronger than her. The cops have been involved many times (when neighbors or whitenesses call) but they really don't help much. When she is arrested they don't know how to deal with her severe mental illness, she ends up shackled to the floor, and when she gets out later it's my dad who ends up paying all the legal fees. > > > > Both of my parents complain to me about the other, but neither will take my advice to get a divorce. > > > > Do you think I just enabling him to not leave her? I feel so bad for him, but at the same time, he's an adult, he should know nothing will change. He stays at my place about 5 nights a week now. (a couple nights a week she's in a " good " phase and wants him back, which he always does when she asks. Until she starts yelling again and then he's back at my place.) He says she has no one else (true) and that she'll just end up killing herself if he doesn't take care of her (also might be true, who knows? but should he sacrifice himself for her??). Well even if I didn't offer my place, he'd sleep on my brother's couch again, or in his car (he's done that as well.) I guess if I can't help him just leave her like he should the least I can do is help him have a good night's sleep. > > > > I can't tell you how odd it feels to have my father in this situation. My father has a PhD in math, and used to be making $150k a year. He was always my " rock " in our house, the one thing I could always depend on. I believe he's the only reason I don't have BPD myself. When I've lost jobs or insurance, he always had money to help me out. Suddenly I'm his support. I wish there was more I could do. When I was a kid I wished he would divorce my mom and take me away from her, and now I wish I could take HIM away from her, but he's not a kid, and it really seems like I can't do shit. > > > > Wow it looks like this email really has no point whatsoever, sorry about that. I just know you all will understand my frustration. Maybe some of you have experience with this? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2010 Report Share Posted August 25, 2010 I've heard that excuse alot for my nada, seemed that was her therapists way of letting her push dad and I around instead of saying get the hell out of there. Hope in the next generaions of nadas the KO won't have to put up with that as an excuse, that they will be told get help or we're taking the kids out. proflaf I also see now what you're saying about the parentification... he definitely told me since my mother was sick that I had to be the " strong one " . If I told him something mean she said to me he would say " she doesn't mean it, she's just sick. She can't help it, she really loves you " . Yes, she's sick, but it seems that was just removing her responsibility for her actions, the same way she thinks she's not responsible. He even would tell me not to say or do certain things that would trigger her. If anything negative happened that she didn't see we all wouldn't tell my nada because it could upset her. He just enforced all the eggshell walking. I guess I do think I'm enabling him, but I've come to think he'll NEVER leave her, no matter what I do, so I might as well let him have some happiness here. I do think I will take your advice and get some DV literature. He's gotten so used to coming here now that at the first sign of nada's craziness he leaves, so the violence is extremely rare. When I was young he would put up with her verbal abuse for as long as it took her to tire out. I do think at least not putting up with that is good, even if he won't permanently leave her. It makes no sense to me, I couldn't WAIT to get out of that house, and left when I was 17. Spending 35 years with that woman sounds horrible, there is no way my dad is unaffected. (he likes to think he is) Casey > > > > From: slingshot2hell <slingshot2hell@...<slingshot2hell%40gmail.com> > > > > > Subject: Spousal abuse > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 <WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, August 24, 2010, 8:25 PM > > > > > > > > > > My nada was never physically violent with me or my brother, although she > > was rather verbally abusive. She was beat up by her dad as a kid and so > > promised herself never to lay a hand on her own children. (The fact that she > > controlled herself with that makes me wish wonder why she can claim no self > > control with other things she does...) Anyway, I guess she never really made > > such a promise about her HUSBAND. > > > > My mom is the hermit type and my dad really fits the huntsman husband > > perfectly. Their relationship has really been pretty bad the last 10 years > > (they have been married 35 years). My dad hasn't worked in over 2 years > > since the economy crashed and she is soley dependent on him. He used to be > > really patient with her but lately he has lost all patience. When she starts > > yelling at him he just leaves and comes to my house. He was often sleeping > > on my or my brothers couch in our apartments a couple years ago. Last year I > > rented a house with my partner and we made a bedroom just for him. > > > > Sometimes when my dad comes over he has a bruise or scrape on his face or > > head. He has admitted to me she gets violent. She punches him (which usually > > doesn't hurt him or leave a mark) or throws things at him (that's when he > > gets bumps on his head). He says can't really fight back because he is > > really quite a lot larger and stronger than her. The cops have been involved > > many times (when neighbors or whitenesses call) but they really don't help > > much. When she is arrested they don't know how to deal with her severe > > mental illness, she ends up shackled to the floor, and when she gets out > > later it's my dad who ends up paying all the legal fees. > > > > Both of my parents complain to me about the other, but neither will take my > > advice to get a divorce. > > > > Do you think I just enabling him to not leave her? I feel so bad for him, > > but at the same time, he's an adult, he should know nothing will change. He > > stays at my place about 5 nights a week now. (a couple nights a week she's > > in a " good " phase and wants him back, which he always does when she asks. > > Until she starts yelling again and then he's back at my place.) He says she > > has no one else (true) and that she'll just end up killing herself if he > > doesn't take care of her (also might be true, who knows? but should he > > sacrifice himself for her??). Well even if I didn't offer my place, he'd > > sleep on my brother's couch again, or in his car (he's done that as well.) I > > guess if I can't help him just leave her like he should the least I can do > > is help him have a good night's sleep. > > > > I can't tell you how odd it feels to have my father in this situation. My > > father has a PhD in math, and used to be making $150k a year. He was always > > my " rock " in our house, the one thing I could always depend on. I believe > > he's the only reason I don't have BPD myself. When I've lost jobs or > > insurance, he always had money to help me out. Suddenly I'm his support. I > > wish there was more I could do. When I was a kid I wished he would divorce > > my mom and take me away from her, and now I wish I could take HIM away from > > her, but he's not a kid, and it really seems like I can't do shit. > > > > Wow it looks like this email really has no point whatsoever, sorry about > > that. I just know you all will understand my frustration. Maybe some of you > > have experience with this? > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2010 Report Share Posted August 25, 2010 I've heard that excuse alot for my nada, seemed that was her therapists way of letting her push dad and I around instead of saying get the hell out of there. Hope in the next generaions of nadas the KO won't have to put up with that as an excuse, that they will be told get help or we're taking the kids out. proflaf I also see now what you're saying about the parentification... he definitely told me since my mother was sick that I had to be the " strong one " . If I told him something mean she said to me he would say " she doesn't mean it, she's just sick. She can't help it, she really loves you " . Yes, she's sick, but it seems that was just removing her responsibility for her actions, the same way she thinks she's not responsible. He even would tell me not to say or do certain things that would trigger her. If anything negative happened that she didn't see we all wouldn't tell my nada because it could upset her. He just enforced all the eggshell walking. I guess I do think I'm enabling him, but I've come to think he'll NEVER leave her, no matter what I do, so I might as well let him have some happiness here. I do think I will take your advice and get some DV literature. He's gotten so used to coming here now that at the first sign of nada's craziness he leaves, so the violence is extremely rare. When I was young he would put up with her verbal abuse for as long as it took her to tire out. I do think at least not putting up with that is good, even if he won't permanently leave her. It makes no sense to me, I couldn't WAIT to get out of that house, and left when I was 17. Spending 35 years with that woman sounds horrible, there is no way my dad is unaffected. (he likes to think he is) Casey > > > > From: slingshot2hell <slingshot2hell@...<slingshot2hell%40gmail.com> > > > > > Subject: Spousal abuse > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 <WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Tuesday, August 24, 2010, 8:25 PM > > > > > > > > > > My nada was never physically violent with me or my brother, although she > > was rather verbally abusive. She was beat up by her dad as a kid and so > > promised herself never to lay a hand on her own children. (The fact that she > > controlled herself with that makes me wish wonder why she can claim no self > > control with other things she does...) Anyway, I guess she never really made > > such a promise about her HUSBAND. > > > > My mom is the hermit type and my dad really fits the huntsman husband > > perfectly. Their relationship has really been pretty bad the last 10 years > > (they have been married 35 years). My dad hasn't worked in over 2 years > > since the economy crashed and she is soley dependent on him. He used to be > > really patient with her but lately he has lost all patience. When she starts > > yelling at him he just leaves and comes to my house. He was often sleeping > > on my or my brothers couch in our apartments a couple years ago. Last year I > > rented a house with my partner and we made a bedroom just for him. > > > > Sometimes when my dad comes over he has a bruise or scrape on his face or > > head. He has admitted to me she gets violent. She punches him (which usually > > doesn't hurt him or leave a mark) or throws things at him (that's when he > > gets bumps on his head). He says can't really fight back because he is > > really quite a lot larger and stronger than her. The cops have been involved > > many times (when neighbors or whitenesses call) but they really don't help > > much. When she is arrested they don't know how to deal with her severe > > mental illness, she ends up shackled to the floor, and when she gets out > > later it's my dad who ends up paying all the legal fees. > > > > Both of my parents complain to me about the other, but neither will take my > > advice to get a divorce. > > > > Do you think I just enabling him to not leave her? I feel so bad for him, > > but at the same time, he's an adult, he should know nothing will change. He > > stays at my place about 5 nights a week now. (a couple nights a week she's > > in a " good " phase and wants him back, which he always does when she asks. > > Until she starts yelling again and then he's back at my place.) He says she > > has no one else (true) and that she'll just end up killing herself if he > > doesn't take care of her (also might be true, who knows? but should he > > sacrifice himself for her??). Well even if I didn't offer my place, he'd > > sleep on my brother's couch again, or in his car (he's done that as well.) I > > guess if I can't help him just leave her like he should the least I can do > > is help him have a good night's sleep. > > > > I can't tell you how odd it feels to have my father in this situation. My > > father has a PhD in math, and used to be making $150k a year. He was always > > my " rock " in our house, the one thing I could always depend on. I believe > > he's the only reason I don't have BPD myself. When I've lost jobs or > > insurance, he always had money to help me out. Suddenly I'm his support. I > > wish there was more I could do. When I was a kid I wished he would divorce > > my mom and take me away from her, and now I wish I could take HIM away from > > her, but he's not a kid, and it really seems like I can't do shit. > > > > Wow it looks like this email really has no point whatsoever, sorry about > > that. I just know you all will understand my frustration. Maybe some of you > > have experience with this? > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2010 Report Share Posted August 25, 2010 Yeah, my nada and fada believed marriage was for a life time and there was something very very very wrong with you if you got a divorce. I'm like, hmm, sometimes divorce is the healthiest choice you can make. In their case divorce would have been a blessing. But when I got divorced, that was when all hell pretty much broke loose and I learned who my friends really are. And nada and fada did not fall into the friend group. Amazing you could treat your child with such hostility when she is going through such a difficult time and needing support more than ever. My fada actually said to me, " I don't want to meet any more son-in-laws. " I took that to mean I was forbidden to marry again. My thought, " Okay you won't be MEETING them. Ever. " I still haven't gotten over that statement in 7 years. Wow, Like he has the right to say that to an adult woman. That pretty much pushed me over the edge with him. I know, he has said worse things, they all have. Said much worse things. But that was the LAST thing. NC NC NC! > > > I've heard that excuse alot for my nada, seemed that was her therapists way > of letting her push dad and I around instead of saying get the hell out of > there. Hope in the next generaions of nadas the KO won't have to put up > with that as an excuse, that they will be told get help or we're taking the > kids out. > proflaf > > > I also see now what you're saying about the parentification... he > definitely told me since my mother was sick that I had to be the " strong > one " . If I told him something mean she said to me he would say " she doesn't > mean it, she's just sick. She can't help it, she really loves you " . Yes, > she's sick, but it seems that was just removing her responsibility for her > actions, the same way she thinks she's not responsible. He even would tell > me not to say or do certain things that would trigger her. If anything > negative happened that she didn't see we all wouldn't tell my nada because > it could upset her. He just enforced all the eggshell walking. > > I guess I do think I'm enabling him, but I've come to think he'll NEVER > leave her, no matter what I do, so I might as well let him have some > happiness here. I do think I will take your advice and get some DV > literature. He's gotten so used to coming here now that at the first sign of > nada's craziness he leaves, so the violence is extremely rare. When I was > young he would put up with her verbal abuse for as long as it took her to > tire out. I do think at least not putting up with that is good, even if he > won't permanently leave her. > > It makes no sense to me, I couldn't WAIT to get out of that house, and left > when I was 17. Spending 35 years with that woman sounds horrible, there is > no way my dad is unaffected. (he likes to think he is) > > Casey > > > > > > > > > > From: slingshot2hell <slingshot2hell@...<slingshot2hell%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Spousal abuse > > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 <WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com> > <WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Tuesday, August 24, 2010, 8:25 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My nada was never physically violent with me or my brother, although > she > > > > was rather verbally abusive. She was beat up by her dad as a kid and so > > > > promised herself never to lay a hand on her own children. (The fact > that she > > > > controlled herself with that makes me wish wonder why she can claim no > self > > > > control with other things she does...) Anyway, I guess she never really > made > > > > such a promise about her HUSBAND. > > > > > > > > My mom is the hermit type and my dad really fits the huntsman husband > > > > perfectly. Their relationship has really been pretty bad the last 10 > years > > > > (they have been married 35 years). My dad hasn't worked in over 2 years > > > > since the economy crashed and she is soley dependent on him. He used to > be > > > > really patient with her but lately he has lost all patience. When she > starts > > > > yelling at him he just leaves and comes to my house. He was often > sleeping > > > > on my or my brothers couch in our apartments a couple years ago. Last > year I > > > > rented a house with my partner and we made a bedroom just for him. > > > > > > > > Sometimes when my dad comes over he has a bruise or scrape on his face > or > > > > head. He has admitted to me she gets violent. She punches him (which > usually > > > > doesn't hurt him or leave a mark) or throws things at him (that's when > he > > > > gets bumps on his head). He says can't really fight back because he is > > > > really quite a lot larger and stronger than her. The cops have been > involved > > > > many times (when neighbors or whitenesses call) but they really don't > help > > > > much. When she is arrested they don't know how to deal with her severe > > > > mental illness, she ends up shackled to the floor, and when she gets > out > > > > later it's my dad who ends up paying all the legal fees. > > > > > > > > Both of my parents complain to me about the other, but neither will > take my > > > > advice to get a divorce. > > > > > > > > Do you think I just enabling him to not leave her? I feel so bad for > him, > > > > but at the same time, he's an adult, he should know nothing will > change. He > > > > stays at my place about 5 nights a week now. (a couple nights a week > she's > > > > in a " good " phase and wants him back, which he always does when she > asks. > > > > Until she starts yelling again and then he's back at my place.) He says > she > > > > has no one else (true) and that she'll just end up killing herself if > he > > > > doesn't take care of her (also might be true, who knows? but should he > > > > sacrifice himself for her??). Well even if I didn't offer my place, > he'd > > > > sleep on my brother's couch again, or in his car (he's done that as > well.) I > > > > guess if I can't help him just leave her like he should the least I can > do > > > > is help him have a good night's sleep. > > > > > > > > I can't tell you how odd it feels to have my father in this situation. > My > > > > father has a PhD in math, and used to be making $150k a year. He was > always > > > > my " rock " in our house, the one thing I could always depend on. I > believe > > > > he's the only reason I don't have BPD myself. When I've lost jobs or > > > > insurance, he always had money to help me out. Suddenly I'm his > support. I > > > > wish there was more I could do. When I was a kid I wished he would > divorce > > > > my mom and take me away from her, and now I wish I could take HIM away > from > > > > her, but he's not a kid, and it really seems like I can't do shit. > > > > > > > > Wow it looks like this email really has no point whatsoever, sorry > about > > > > that. I just know you all will understand my frustration. Maybe some of > you > > > > have experience with this? > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2010 Report Share Posted August 25, 2010 Yeah, my nada and fada believed marriage was for a life time and there was something very very very wrong with you if you got a divorce. I'm like, hmm, sometimes divorce is the healthiest choice you can make. In their case divorce would have been a blessing. But when I got divorced, that was when all hell pretty much broke loose and I learned who my friends really are. And nada and fada did not fall into the friend group. Amazing you could treat your child with such hostility when she is going through such a difficult time and needing support more than ever. My fada actually said to me, " I don't want to meet any more son-in-laws. " I took that to mean I was forbidden to marry again. My thought, " Okay you won't be MEETING them. Ever. " I still haven't gotten over that statement in 7 years. Wow, Like he has the right to say that to an adult woman. That pretty much pushed me over the edge with him. I know, he has said worse things, they all have. Said much worse things. But that was the LAST thing. NC NC NC! > > > I've heard that excuse alot for my nada, seemed that was her therapists way > of letting her push dad and I around instead of saying get the hell out of > there. Hope in the next generaions of nadas the KO won't have to put up > with that as an excuse, that they will be told get help or we're taking the > kids out. > proflaf > > > I also see now what you're saying about the parentification... he > definitely told me since my mother was sick that I had to be the " strong > one " . If I told him something mean she said to me he would say " she doesn't > mean it, she's just sick. She can't help it, she really loves you " . Yes, > she's sick, but it seems that was just removing her responsibility for her > actions, the same way she thinks she's not responsible. He even would tell > me not to say or do certain things that would trigger her. If anything > negative happened that she didn't see we all wouldn't tell my nada because > it could upset her. He just enforced all the eggshell walking. > > I guess I do think I'm enabling him, but I've come to think he'll NEVER > leave her, no matter what I do, so I might as well let him have some > happiness here. I do think I will take your advice and get some DV > literature. He's gotten so used to coming here now that at the first sign of > nada's craziness he leaves, so the violence is extremely rare. When I was > young he would put up with her verbal abuse for as long as it took her to > tire out. I do think at least not putting up with that is good, even if he > won't permanently leave her. > > It makes no sense to me, I couldn't WAIT to get out of that house, and left > when I was 17. Spending 35 years with that woman sounds horrible, there is > no way my dad is unaffected. (he likes to think he is) > > Casey > > > > > > > > > > From: slingshot2hell <slingshot2hell@...<slingshot2hell%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Spousal abuse > > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 <WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com> > <WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Tuesday, August 24, 2010, 8:25 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My nada was never physically violent with me or my brother, although > she > > > > was rather verbally abusive. She was beat up by her dad as a kid and so > > > > promised herself never to lay a hand on her own children. (The fact > that she > > > > controlled herself with that makes me wish wonder why she can claim no > self > > > > control with other things she does...) Anyway, I guess she never really > made > > > > such a promise about her HUSBAND. > > > > > > > > My mom is the hermit type and my dad really fits the huntsman husband > > > > perfectly. Their relationship has really been pretty bad the last 10 > years > > > > (they have been married 35 years). My dad hasn't worked in over 2 years > > > > since the economy crashed and she is soley dependent on him. He used to > be > > > > really patient with her but lately he has lost all patience. When she > starts > > > > yelling at him he just leaves and comes to my house. He was often > sleeping > > > > on my or my brothers couch in our apartments a couple years ago. Last > year I > > > > rented a house with my partner and we made a bedroom just for him. > > > > > > > > Sometimes when my dad comes over he has a bruise or scrape on his face > or > > > > head. He has admitted to me she gets violent. She punches him (which > usually > > > > doesn't hurt him or leave a mark) or throws things at him (that's when > he > > > > gets bumps on his head). He says can't really fight back because he is > > > > really quite a lot larger and stronger than her. The cops have been > involved > > > > many times (when neighbors or whitenesses call) but they really don't > help > > > > much. When she is arrested they don't know how to deal with her severe > > > > mental illness, she ends up shackled to the floor, and when she gets > out > > > > later it's my dad who ends up paying all the legal fees. > > > > > > > > Both of my parents complain to me about the other, but neither will > take my > > > > advice to get a divorce. > > > > > > > > Do you think I just enabling him to not leave her? I feel so bad for > him, > > > > but at the same time, he's an adult, he should know nothing will > change. He > > > > stays at my place about 5 nights a week now. (a couple nights a week > she's > > > > in a " good " phase and wants him back, which he always does when she > asks. > > > > Until she starts yelling again and then he's back at my place.) He says > she > > > > has no one else (true) and that she'll just end up killing herself if > he > > > > doesn't take care of her (also might be true, who knows? but should he > > > > sacrifice himself for her??). Well even if I didn't offer my place, > he'd > > > > sleep on my brother's couch again, or in his car (he's done that as > well.) I > > > > guess if I can't help him just leave her like he should the least I can > do > > > > is help him have a good night's sleep. > > > > > > > > I can't tell you how odd it feels to have my father in this situation. > My > > > > father has a PhD in math, and used to be making $150k a year. He was > always > > > > my " rock " in our house, the one thing I could always depend on. I > believe > > > > he's the only reason I don't have BPD myself. When I've lost jobs or > > > > insurance, he always had money to help me out. Suddenly I'm his > support. I > > > > wish there was more I could do. When I was a kid I wished he would > divorce > > > > my mom and take me away from her, and now I wish I could take HIM away > from > > > > her, but he's not a kid, and it really seems like I can't do shit. > > > > > > > > Wow it looks like this email really has no point whatsoever, sorry > about > > > > that. I just know you all will understand my frustration. Maybe some of > you > > > > have experience with this? > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2010 Report Share Posted August 25, 2010 Yeah, my nada and fada believed marriage was for a life time and there was something very very very wrong with you if you got a divorce. I'm like, hmm, sometimes divorce is the healthiest choice you can make. In their case divorce would have been a blessing. But when I got divorced, that was when all hell pretty much broke loose and I learned who my friends really are. And nada and fada did not fall into the friend group. Amazing you could treat your child with such hostility when she is going through such a difficult time and needing support more than ever. My fada actually said to me, " I don't want to meet any more son-in-laws. " I took that to mean I was forbidden to marry again. My thought, " Okay you won't be MEETING them. Ever. " I still haven't gotten over that statement in 7 years. Wow, Like he has the right to say that to an adult woman. That pretty much pushed me over the edge with him. I know, he has said worse things, they all have. Said much worse things. But that was the LAST thing. NC NC NC! > > > I've heard that excuse alot for my nada, seemed that was her therapists way > of letting her push dad and I around instead of saying get the hell out of > there. Hope in the next generaions of nadas the KO won't have to put up > with that as an excuse, that they will be told get help or we're taking the > kids out. > proflaf > > > I also see now what you're saying about the parentification... he > definitely told me since my mother was sick that I had to be the " strong > one " . If I told him something mean she said to me he would say " she doesn't > mean it, she's just sick. She can't help it, she really loves you " . Yes, > she's sick, but it seems that was just removing her responsibility for her > actions, the same way she thinks she's not responsible. He even would tell > me not to say or do certain things that would trigger her. If anything > negative happened that she didn't see we all wouldn't tell my nada because > it could upset her. He just enforced all the eggshell walking. > > I guess I do think I'm enabling him, but I've come to think he'll NEVER > leave her, no matter what I do, so I might as well let him have some > happiness here. I do think I will take your advice and get some DV > literature. He's gotten so used to coming here now that at the first sign of > nada's craziness he leaves, so the violence is extremely rare. When I was > young he would put up with her verbal abuse for as long as it took her to > tire out. I do think at least not putting up with that is good, even if he > won't permanently leave her. > > It makes no sense to me, I couldn't WAIT to get out of that house, and left > when I was 17. Spending 35 years with that woman sounds horrible, there is > no way my dad is unaffected. (he likes to think he is) > > Casey > > > > > > > > > > From: slingshot2hell <slingshot2hell@...<slingshot2hell%40gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Spousal abuse > > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 <WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com> > <WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > Date: Tuesday, August 24, 2010, 8:25 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My nada was never physically violent with me or my brother, although > she > > > > was rather verbally abusive. She was beat up by her dad as a kid and so > > > > promised herself never to lay a hand on her own children. (The fact > that she > > > > controlled herself with that makes me wish wonder why she can claim no > self > > > > control with other things she does...) Anyway, I guess she never really > made > > > > such a promise about her HUSBAND. > > > > > > > > My mom is the hermit type and my dad really fits the huntsman husband > > > > perfectly. Their relationship has really been pretty bad the last 10 > years > > > > (they have been married 35 years). My dad hasn't worked in over 2 years > > > > since the economy crashed and she is soley dependent on him. He used to > be > > > > really patient with her but lately he has lost all patience. When she > starts > > > > yelling at him he just leaves and comes to my house. He was often > sleeping > > > > on my or my brothers couch in our apartments a couple years ago. Last > year I > > > > rented a house with my partner and we made a bedroom just for him. > > > > > > > > Sometimes when my dad comes over he has a bruise or scrape on his face > or > > > > head. He has admitted to me she gets violent. She punches him (which > usually > > > > doesn't hurt him or leave a mark) or throws things at him (that's when > he > > > > gets bumps on his head). He says can't really fight back because he is > > > > really quite a lot larger and stronger than her. The cops have been > involved > > > > many times (when neighbors or whitenesses call) but they really don't > help > > > > much. When she is arrested they don't know how to deal with her severe > > > > mental illness, she ends up shackled to the floor, and when she gets > out > > > > later it's my dad who ends up paying all the legal fees. > > > > > > > > Both of my parents complain to me about the other, but neither will > take my > > > > advice to get a divorce. > > > > > > > > Do you think I just enabling him to not leave her? I feel so bad for > him, > > > > but at the same time, he's an adult, he should know nothing will > change. He > > > > stays at my place about 5 nights a week now. (a couple nights a week > she's > > > > in a " good " phase and wants him back, which he always does when she > asks. > > > > Until she starts yelling again and then he's back at my place.) He says > she > > > > has no one else (true) and that she'll just end up killing herself if > he > > > > doesn't take care of her (also might be true, who knows? but should he > > > > sacrifice himself for her??). Well even if I didn't offer my place, > he'd > > > > sleep on my brother's couch again, or in his car (he's done that as > well.) I > > > > guess if I can't help him just leave her like he should the least I can > do > > > > is help him have a good night's sleep. > > > > > > > > I can't tell you how odd it feels to have my father in this situation. > My > > > > father has a PhD in math, and used to be making $150k a year. He was > always > > > > my " rock " in our house, the one thing I could always depend on. I > believe > > > > he's the only reason I don't have BPD myself. When I've lost jobs or > > > > insurance, he always had money to help me out. Suddenly I'm his > support. I > > > > wish there was more I could do. When I was a kid I wished he would > divorce > > > > my mom and take me away from her, and now I wish I could take HIM away > from > > > > her, but he's not a kid, and it really seems like I can't do shit. > > > > > > > > Wow it looks like this email really has no point whatsoever, sorry > about > > > > that. I just know you all will understand my frustration. Maybe some of > you > > > > have experience with this? > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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