Nattokinase

July 2, 2002

Now I am confused, because heparin is very effective at helping

hypofibrinolysis. I also took bromelain with my heparin, but I'm sure the

bromelain alone would not have reduced my fibrin levels so much. My SFM

went from 27 to 8 from heparin. I also believe my research showed it

dissolves fibrin.

Thanks,

Doris

> Heparin works on the thrombophilic side by inhibiting the clotting

> mechanism. Nattokinase works on the fibrinolytic side by dissolve clots

and

> there product fibrin.

>

> People with coagulopathies can have problems on one or both sides of

> the equation. I have both with an emphasis on hypofibrinolysis. This

> is why I'm interested in fibrinolytics such as nattokinase. The Heparin

I'm taking may indirectly reduce the SFM and Fibrin but a

> more successful approach would be to take a fibrinolytic with the

> Heparin.

June 28, 2004

Hi ,

We use nattokinase, and have found it helpful for energy levels. We

use it every day now. It doesn't address all coagulation

problems, so whether it would work for you instead of heparin would

likely depend on your own Hemex panel results.

We've also used heparin, I'm the only one in the family who needs it

at the moment, and I take it sublingually, squirting it under the

tongue and then spitting it out after five minutes. This way you

only absorb the low molecular weight elements, which is considered

safer. There are many natural things to take for coagulation, but

there are still some coagulation factors that we haven't found any

natural remedies for, so I do use heparin.

Here is Ken's webpage on nattokinase, with links to references

http://lassesen.com/cfids/supplements/natto.htm

and here is his page on coagulation factors, with links on the right

to treatments for each, that he's found so far, with reference links.

http://lassesen.com/cfids/coagulation.htm

Laurie

June 28, 2004

Hi Laurie:

It's . How are you doing? I found your comment interesting about

spitting out the heparin. I am doing the Lovenox (low mol. weight)

sublingually, but wasn't told to spit it out after. Is it because I'm

taking Lovenox and not Heparin?

Thanks,

Re: Nattokinase

> Hi ,

> We use nattokinase, and have found it helpful for energy levels. We

> use it every day now. It doesn't address all coagulation

> problems, so whether it would work for you instead of heparin would

> likely depend on your own Hemex panel results.

>

> We've also used heparin, I'm the only one in the family who needs it

> at the moment, and I take it sublingually, squirting it under the

> tongue and then spitting it out after five minutes. This way you

> only absorb the low molecular weight elements, which is considered

> safer. There are many natural things to take for coagulation, but

> there are still some coagulation factors that we haven't found any

> natural remedies for, so I do use heparin.

>

> Here is Ken's webpage on nattokinase, with links to references

> http://lassesen.com/cfids/supplements/natto.htm

> and here is his page on coagulation factors, with links on the right

> to treatments for each, that he's found so far, with reference links.

> http://lassesen.com/cfids/coagulation.htm

>

> Laurie

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

June 28, 2004

Hi ,

Hi! Doing OK in general, although summer heat is a problem still.

I hope you are doing well, maybe we'll bump into each other soon,

that would be fun.

When we took the last of our Lovenox (current insurance won't pay

for Lovenox, so now it's heparin), we took it sublingually and spit

that out too. I don't know if it makes a difference, Ken says that

stomach acid breaks it down pretty fast anyway. I have forgotten

and swallowed it, and I didn't feel any different. I just prefer to

spit it out.

Laurie

June 28, 2004

Thanks, Laurie. I'm going on vacation for 2 weeks next week, so I'm sure

I'll see you at a future gathering...

Re: Nattokinase

> Hi ,

> Hi! Doing OK in general, although summer heat is a problem still.

> I hope you are doing well, maybe we'll bump into each other soon,

> that would be fun.

>

> When we took the last of our Lovenox (current insurance won't pay

> for Lovenox, so now it's heparin), we took it sublingually and spit

> that out too. I don't know if it makes a difference, Ken says that

> stomach acid breaks it down pretty fast anyway. I have forgotten

> and swallowed it, and I didn't feel any different. I just prefer to

> spit it out.

>

> Laurie

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

June 29, 2004

hi its beeen used in japan a long time so they mgiht have the better

studies if translated into english..us relatively new using it. tealk

> [Original Message]

> From: _Dahlstrom <kevin_dahlstrom@...>

> < >

> Date: 6/28/2004 4:07:35 PM

> Subject: Nattokinase

>

> Has anyone tried Nattokinase for hypercoagulation? Did it help with

> fatigue, etc.?

>

> I will be having the Hemex ISAC panel done soon and my doctor

> typically treats hypercoagulation with heparin. Seems like a

> natural remedy like Nattokinase might be safer and more sustainable.

>

> Here is a link to a good article on using Nattokinase in CFS

> (published by supplement manufacturer):

>

> http://www.allergyresearchgroup.com/news/letters/ARGFocusAug02.pdf

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with

each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any

treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

June 30, 2004

Herparin is natural, something you body produces itself. You're just adding

more.

+PLS

Nattokinase

>

> Has anyone tried Nattokinase for hypercoagulation? Did it help with

> fatigue, etc.?

>

> I will be having the Hemex ISAC panel done soon and my doctor

> typically treats hypercoagulation with heparin. Seems like a

> natural remedy like Nattokinase might be safer and more sustainable.

>

> Here is a link to a good article on using Nattokinase in CFS

> (published by supplement manufacturer):

>

> http://www.allergyresearchgroup.com/news/letters/ARGFocusAug02.pdf

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with

each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any

treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

January 12, 2005

----- Original Message -----

From: " Du Pre " <isaiah43@...>

Hello,

I was planning to start taking Nattokinase, and I was wondering what

product

line would be best. I notice that there are some that are soft gels,

which I

understand is a more absorbable form. The regular powder can be purchased

from

Beyond-A-Century, which is a cheaper way to go, but I don't know about the

absorption.

,

I now take Nattokinase 1500 by Wobenzyme, available from iherb.

It is no less absorbable than the softgels, contains the right amount of

rutin, an excellent co-factor that I was taking anyway, and is very

competitively priced.

One of the purposes of setting up the oxidative_stress group was to

discuss hypofibrinolysis and surrounding issues. We're at

Group home page: oxidative_stress

Rob

January 12, 2005

I don't have info for you -sorry - but I would love to hear from you

once you've tried it. Also if there is anyone else out there who has

tried it, I would love to know what your results were. Thanks!

Angie

> Hello,

> I was planning to start taking Nattokinase, and I was wondering

what product

> line would be best. I notice that there are some that are soft

gels, which I

> understand is a more absorbable form. The regular powder can be

purchased from

> Beyond-A-Century, which is a cheaper way to go, but I don't know

about the

> absorption.

> Thanks,

> Du Pre

> Website: http://webs.lanset.com/isaiah43/

> " By words the mind is winged. " Aristophanes

January 12, 2005

Ken Lassesen has some good info on his site

(www.lassesen.com). I'm tempted to try it too at some point. I

don't know what brand is best -- they're all expensive, but

Enzymedica makes one called " Natto-K " -- and they have a

GREAT reputation for all their enzyme products. I used to take

them last year (when I had $!) and I definitely felt considerably

better than I do now...

d.

?? $T<FSFMExperimental , " grball628 "

<successfulhealing@h...> wrote:

>

> I don't have info for you -sorry - but I would love to hear from you

> once you've tried it. Also if there is anyone else out there who

has

> tried it, I would love to know what your results were. Thanks!

>

> Angie

>

> > Hello,

> > I was planning to start taking Nattokinase, and I was

wondering

> what product

> > line would be best. I notice that there are some that are soft

> gels, which I

> > understand is a more absorbable form. The regular powder

can be

> purchased from

> > Beyond-A-Century, which is a cheaper way to go, but I don't

know

> about the

> > absorption.

> > Thanks,

> > Du Pre

> > Website: http://webs.lanset.com/isaiah43/

> > " By words the mind is winged. " Aristophanes

January 12, 2005

Natto-K is what we have used...

OR -- hit the Asian Grocery store and buy the Japanese desesrt called

Natto (a little bit of an acquired taste - pretty good with asian

mustard) and eat that instead --- :-) Imagine, a medicine that is a

dessert! It is made from fermented soy bean.

>

> Ken Lassesen has some good info on his site

> (www.lassesen.com). I'm tempted to try it too at some point. I

> don't know what brand is best -- they're all expensive, but

> Enzymedica makes one called " Natto-K " -- and they have a

> GREAT reputation for all their enzyme products. I used to take

> them last year (when I had $!) and I definitely felt considerably

> better than I do now...

>

> d.

January 13, 2005

www.iherb.com has the best prices I've found for

Nattokinase. They carry good brands too.

Bonnie

Every day is be kind to animals day.

Support Care2 Email: 1,400 whales may be killed this year. Take action!

http://www.care2.com/go/z/17954

January 29, 2005

A word of warning: if you get migraines and are sensitive to moldy or

fermented foods (blue cheese, pickled herring, anchovies for example),

stay away from natto. It has tyramines out the wazoo, and gave me one

of the worst migraines of my life (which lasted a week and didn't

respond well to my usual medications).

--

el (andreafrankel at sbcglobal dot net)

" wake now! Discover that YOU are the song that the morning brings... "

February 1, 2006

Nelly, They are the same. One is sold to doctors and the other to the public.

Makes no sense to me, but I suspect the can sell to doctors at a higher rate as

doctors think they are getting a s;uperior product??? The best deal I've found

is Drs Best natto at iHerb. It was tested recently and found to be more potent

than any similar product on the market. Mel

February 1, 2006

Mel,

I'm trying to figure out if Nattokinase can replace/do as good as

Lumbrokinase? Do you know?

L

On Feb 1, 2006, at 5:06 PM, Mel Baldwin wrote:

> Nelly, They are the same. One is sold to doctors and the other to the

> public. Makes no sense to me, but I suspect the can sell to doctors at

> a higher rate as doctors think they are getting a s;uperior product???

> The best deal I've found is Drs BestÂ natto at iHerb. It was tested

> recentlyÂ and found to be more potent than any similar product on the

> market.Â Mel

>

February 1, 2006

Is it cheaper at the same place? That would be bizarre because

Allergy Research as you probably know decided to repackage some of

their products under the Nutricology brand for wider distribution to

health supp stores. I think I noticed though I wasn't buying the

product again on iherb that they actually called a product as having

the brand " Allergy Research/Nutricology. " I have a feeling that the

decision to use another brand possibly didn't work out. Don't

know. But everything I know is that the product is the same whether

the brand is AR or N....ogy. So buy what you want where it's

cheapest and don't feel the difference is the name but rather the

pricing policy of the company.

Judith Wisdom

>

> I thought Allergy research Nattokinase was exactly the same as

Nutricology Nattokinase.

>

> Any idea why it is cheaper?

>

> Nelly

>

> http://www.organic-pharmacy.com/NattokinaseFibrenase.htm

>

February 1, 2006

, I have no personal experience with Lumbrokinase, tho I have some

awareness thru reading. It is sometimes compared with Nattokinase, but I have no

data. The natto as been tested and has numerical weight, but haven't encountered

any hard data for Lumbrokinase. The Natto I'm using is Dr Best, currently rated

at 2000 FU. Because of allergy to animal derrived blood thinners, I have used

Nattokinase, cardiopeptase, ginkgo, vitamin E, garlic, and some others, often in

combination. It's hard to monitor.. I just watch for bruising or bleeding. I

wish I had a better answer, but I've been flying by the seat of my pants for so

long I've become comfortable/vigilant in this. Not so brave, just doing what I

had to do. Mel

February 1, 2006

Judith, My wife talked to Allergy

research. She was told the Natto sold under their label to health care

professionals was the same natto sold as Nattozyme under the Nutricology brand

in health food stores. The only difference seems to be the price. Mel

February 2, 2006

Thanks for the confirmation.

I will look into Dr's Best Natto

Nelly

Re: Nattokinase

Nelly, They are the same. One is sold to doctors and the other to the public.

Makes no sense to me, but I suspect the can sell to doctors at a higher rate as

doctors think they are getting a s;uperior product??? The best deal I've found

is Drs Best natto at iHerb. It was tested recently and found to be more potent

than any similar product on the market. Mel

November 1, 2006

I have been able to find it in Japanese markets, and you have to ask because

the labels are foreign.

I eat it together with raw sauerkraut.

Nina

Nattokinase

Hi, Nina

You mentioned Natto as a fermented product. I am not familiar with

this. I've seen Nattokinase in capsules. Is this what you are

talking about or is there more natural way of taking it. Could you

give me some product makes so i know i'm getting a good quality one.

Is it like shoyu? or tofu? How do you use it?

Sally

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November 1, 2006

Sally:

What is everyone taking Natto for? What good is it? I can't keep up with all

these supplements.

Thanks,

Bonnie

Nattokinase

Hi, Nina

You mentioned Natto as a fermented product. I am not familiar with

this. I've seen Nattokinase in capsules. Is this what you are

talking about or is there more natural way of taking it. Could you

give me some product makes so i know i'm getting a good quality one.

Is it like shoyu? or tofu? How do you use it?

Sally

November 2, 2006

>

Bonnie,

The gist of it is that Nina was saying fermented soya products were

good for bone health, and health in general. When she stopped soya

she lost bone and regained it when she resumed taking it. She says

fermented products are okay for thyroid sufferers. I know what the

other fermented products are but not natto. She says she gets it at

Japenese markets. I don't think we get Japenese markets here and i

don't even know wether i'm going to like it anyway. I'm still not

sure if it is sauce or solid, Nina eats it with raw saurkraut. I

think it was also the product she mentioned along with radishes for

maintaining acid/alkaline balance with acid producing meals. I might

just have tofu and shoyu and forget the natto. Can't stand Miso

soup yuk.

Sally

> Sally:

>

> What is everyone taking Natto for? What good is it? I can't keep

up with all these supplements.

>

> Thanks,

> Bonnie

> Nattokinase

>

> Hi, Nina

>

> You mentioned Natto as a fermented product. I am not familiar

with

> this. I've seen Nattokinase in capsules. Is this what you are

> talking about or is there more natural way of taking it. Could

you

> give me some product makes so i know i'm getting a good quality

one.

> Is it like shoyu? or tofu? How do you use it?

> Sally

>

November 2, 2006

Eat what you are comfortable eating and don't force yourself to eat anything

you don't like. Natto isn't a supplement you take, it is a food eaten daily

in parts of Japan, often for breakfast. Those parts of Japan have better

bone density than other parts.

I happen to love natto, but it absolutely is an acquired taste.