Guest guest Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 Hon, you don't have to take care of your nada. What she did to you was BAD ENOUGH! It doesn't matter if it could have been worse. The only person you are responsible for is you, your young children, and your pets. That's it! That's where your responsibilities begin and end. Much love, Scout On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 4:40 AM, blue2356@... < blue2356@...> wrote: > > > Hi , > My nada is maybe more like yours..As I read each persons story's, I really > feel sad for so many of them, I'm suprised they aren't all suicidal > themselves with some of the crazy nada's they had, I couldn't even imagine, > because mine was bad enough..Our nada never beat us either, it's always been > her mouth..She is actually too scared of every thing in life herself to be > mean in that way..Storms, trains, planes, tall buildings every thing, she > can imagine a bad thing happening and just freak about it..She was also more > belittling and controlling with all of our lives...I'm the oldest of 6 kids, > so she made me her parent and everyone elses too...Still to this day she > drives me crazy if I talk to her too much or am around her..Funny thing is > for me, I had forgotten all the bad when I was little, in fact I don't > remember her being really verbally mean as a small child, (it started more > in my teenage years), she made me her caretaker when it came to handling my > alcoholic Dad..It was when I got my divorce and moved back to the town where > they all live my nightmare began...I moved in with my parents for a brief > time, but I was lucky to get out, because nada didn't want that at all...She > tryed to tell me where to go, who to see, and if I didn't do it the way she > wanted me too, she would figure out a way for it to happen that way...She > tryed to keep my daughter from me by kicking me out of the house, basically > on to the streets, I had only lived in this state when I moved in with them, > so I knew no one except for this guy I had been dating, which she hated in > the first place...She would pick up the phone, everytime he'd call and > scream at us and tell us to get off...I was 27 (I'm 54 now) years old then > and before my divorce had been married for 6 years...I ended up having to > call the guy, and moving in with him, so there I ended up in a relationship > I didn't need to be in anyway, because of Nada...Funny, she put me where she > didn't want me in the first place, just because she wouldn't let me figure > things out on my own...My daughter was with them alone for about 3 weeks,I > tryed and tryed to go visit her and call her and my nada wouldn't let > me...My poor little girl at the time was 4 and had never been away from me > at the time, she didn't know what to think...when I finally got a place to > live I went to get her, and my Dad at the time wasn't going to let me take > her, which was strange, we figured out at that point nada had lied to him > and told him I just never came back and ran off with this man...When I told > him the truth he believed me and just said, " Go get your girl. " He was so > mad at her....So now, my contact has been off and on, or NC...If I am too > close with her now, what she does is constantly run my siblings down and > complain about them and run their lives...She also trys to pull me in to her > insanity about them,it's scary because she has a way of making you believe > things at times...She has always played he children against one another, so > you have to watch it with her... > > She knows she can't push me anymore..I've never asked her for anything > again, since I moved in with them all those years ago...I've tryed to tell > my younger sister for years, you can't depend on her in anyway because if > you do she will use it to her advantage..She still trys to manipulate > everyone, she's still belittling and no matter what the incident,(even > though we know she caused it) she is always the victim...I have one brother > who she has made so weak, he ended up back at home with her, after my father > died...He's been there since, like for 20 years..It's so sad too, he is such > a good looking man, sweet and gentle to old people, small children and > women, he's never been married..He's very articulate and can fix, and do > almost anything he sets his mind too, but she's beat him down so bad he's > become somewhat antisocial and we think he has a fear of the outside > world..So it's all great for her because she has her built in > caretaker...She would have preferred to have, had me, but she didn't get her > way when I grew up...I hate her guts for all the things she has caused for > my siblings..I got married young and was living in another state for those 7 > years (best thing that could have happen to me), I learned how to take care > of myself and have always done it, I'm very happy, confident and well > adjusted compared to my siblings... I just can't be around her, because she > brings horrible rage and anger in me if I'm with her too much..Of course > it's all vented towards her...I've told her recently she has no business > judging anyones mothering skills because she was the suckiest mother on > earth! > > Sorry for the long story, I was up and couldn't sleep so you helped me > out...LOL! Don't worry about being long distance from your nada...I live in > the same town just 3 miles away and once again we haven't spoke for a month > now...I'm going to keep it that way for as long as I can, although I'm sure > my poor brother will call me about something and it's really hard for me not > to help my siblings still to this day...I'm working on getting my younger > sister strong now, she was the youngest of all of us, and she has some real > problems because of Nada... > I guess I'll always be a caretaker to a certain point, but I know that I > can go to my grave and my children are happy, well adjusted and we have a > wonderful relationship and that's what matters in life is yourself and your > family...Good night and good luck... Jill > > > > > > This article has me thinking and stewing a bit I'm curious to see others > reactions to it. I'm fighting a bit of internal FOGgging. > > > > > http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2010/09/01/my_mother_deathbed/index.html > > > > And do any of you get the feeling that the author had an unhappy > relationship with the mother and was an involuntary caregiver? I worry about > the social pressure on me to do the same when the time comes. I hope to do > most everything to manage her care long distance, but...it produces lots of > conflicting emotions. My mother never beat me or tried to kill me or even > attempted suicide. Sometimes I wonder if I belong on this board even, but my > therapists say she's BPD, and she still managed to completely eff me up with > emotionally anyway. Yet a little voice says what she did wasn't extreme > *enough* for me to leave her to die " alone " . Yet for me to live close enough > to her for that not to be the case, I'd live close enough for her to make me > insane - possibly for years - before she got to her end of life. So I still > stand by my choices living far away, making phone calls, but I feel a storm > is coming and I'm not sure I'm ready. > > > > Anybody else in this boat? Do you worry that it's a big enough boat? > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 Hon, you don't have to take care of your nada. What she did to you was BAD ENOUGH! It doesn't matter if it could have been worse. The only person you are responsible for is you, your young children, and your pets. That's it! That's where your responsibilities begin and end. Much love, Scout On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 4:40 AM, blue2356@... < blue2356@...> wrote: > > > Hi , > My nada is maybe more like yours..As I read each persons story's, I really > feel sad for so many of them, I'm suprised they aren't all suicidal > themselves with some of the crazy nada's they had, I couldn't even imagine, > because mine was bad enough..Our nada never beat us either, it's always been > her mouth..She is actually too scared of every thing in life herself to be > mean in that way..Storms, trains, planes, tall buildings every thing, she > can imagine a bad thing happening and just freak about it..She was also more > belittling and controlling with all of our lives...I'm the oldest of 6 kids, > so she made me her parent and everyone elses too...Still to this day she > drives me crazy if I talk to her too much or am around her..Funny thing is > for me, I had forgotten all the bad when I was little, in fact I don't > remember her being really verbally mean as a small child, (it started more > in my teenage years), she made me her caretaker when it came to handling my > alcoholic Dad..It was when I got my divorce and moved back to the town where > they all live my nightmare began...I moved in with my parents for a brief > time, but I was lucky to get out, because nada didn't want that at all...She > tryed to tell me where to go, who to see, and if I didn't do it the way she > wanted me too, she would figure out a way for it to happen that way...She > tryed to keep my daughter from me by kicking me out of the house, basically > on to the streets, I had only lived in this state when I moved in with them, > so I knew no one except for this guy I had been dating, which she hated in > the first place...She would pick up the phone, everytime he'd call and > scream at us and tell us to get off...I was 27 (I'm 54 now) years old then > and before my divorce had been married for 6 years...I ended up having to > call the guy, and moving in with him, so there I ended up in a relationship > I didn't need to be in anyway, because of Nada...Funny, she put me where she > didn't want me in the first place, just because she wouldn't let me figure > things out on my own...My daughter was with them alone for about 3 weeks,I > tryed and tryed to go visit her and call her and my nada wouldn't let > me...My poor little girl at the time was 4 and had never been away from me > at the time, she didn't know what to think...when I finally got a place to > live I went to get her, and my Dad at the time wasn't going to let me take > her, which was strange, we figured out at that point nada had lied to him > and told him I just never came back and ran off with this man...When I told > him the truth he believed me and just said, " Go get your girl. " He was so > mad at her....So now, my contact has been off and on, or NC...If I am too > close with her now, what she does is constantly run my siblings down and > complain about them and run their lives...She also trys to pull me in to her > insanity about them,it's scary because she has a way of making you believe > things at times...She has always played he children against one another, so > you have to watch it with her... > > She knows she can't push me anymore..I've never asked her for anything > again, since I moved in with them all those years ago...I've tryed to tell > my younger sister for years, you can't depend on her in anyway because if > you do she will use it to her advantage..She still trys to manipulate > everyone, she's still belittling and no matter what the incident,(even > though we know she caused it) she is always the victim...I have one brother > who she has made so weak, he ended up back at home with her, after my father > died...He's been there since, like for 20 years..It's so sad too, he is such > a good looking man, sweet and gentle to old people, small children and > women, he's never been married..He's very articulate and can fix, and do > almost anything he sets his mind too, but she's beat him down so bad he's > become somewhat antisocial and we think he has a fear of the outside > world..So it's all great for her because she has her built in > caretaker...She would have preferred to have, had me, but she didn't get her > way when I grew up...I hate her guts for all the things she has caused for > my siblings..I got married young and was living in another state for those 7 > years (best thing that could have happen to me), I learned how to take care > of myself and have always done it, I'm very happy, confident and well > adjusted compared to my siblings... I just can't be around her, because she > brings horrible rage and anger in me if I'm with her too much..Of course > it's all vented towards her...I've told her recently she has no business > judging anyones mothering skills because she was the suckiest mother on > earth! > > Sorry for the long story, I was up and couldn't sleep so you helped me > out...LOL! Don't worry about being long distance from your nada...I live in > the same town just 3 miles away and once again we haven't spoke for a month > now...I'm going to keep it that way for as long as I can, although I'm sure > my poor brother will call me about something and it's really hard for me not > to help my siblings still to this day...I'm working on getting my younger > sister strong now, she was the youngest of all of us, and she has some real > problems because of Nada... > I guess I'll always be a caretaker to a certain point, but I know that I > can go to my grave and my children are happy, well adjusted and we have a > wonderful relationship and that's what matters in life is yourself and your > family...Good night and good luck... Jill > > > > > > This article has me thinking and stewing a bit I'm curious to see others > reactions to it. I'm fighting a bit of internal FOGgging. > > > > > http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2010/09/01/my_mother_deathbed/index.html > > > > And do any of you get the feeling that the author had an unhappy > relationship with the mother and was an involuntary caregiver? I worry about > the social pressure on me to do the same when the time comes. I hope to do > most everything to manage her care long distance, but...it produces lots of > conflicting emotions. My mother never beat me or tried to kill me or even > attempted suicide. Sometimes I wonder if I belong on this board even, but my > therapists say she's BPD, and she still managed to completely eff me up with > emotionally anyway. Yet a little voice says what she did wasn't extreme > *enough* for me to leave her to die " alone " . Yet for me to live close enough > to her for that not to be the case, I'd live close enough for her to make me > insane - possibly for years - before she got to her end of life. So I still > stand by my choices living far away, making phone calls, but I feel a storm > is coming and I'm not sure I'm ready. > > > > Anybody else in this boat? Do you worry that it's a big enough boat? > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 Hon, you don't have to take care of your nada. What she did to you was BAD ENOUGH! It doesn't matter if it could have been worse. The only person you are responsible for is you, your young children, and your pets. That's it! That's where your responsibilities begin and end. Much love, Scout On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 4:40 AM, blue2356@... < blue2356@...> wrote: > > > Hi , > My nada is maybe more like yours..As I read each persons story's, I really > feel sad for so many of them, I'm suprised they aren't all suicidal > themselves with some of the crazy nada's they had, I couldn't even imagine, > because mine was bad enough..Our nada never beat us either, it's always been > her mouth..She is actually too scared of every thing in life herself to be > mean in that way..Storms, trains, planes, tall buildings every thing, she > can imagine a bad thing happening and just freak about it..She was also more > belittling and controlling with all of our lives...I'm the oldest of 6 kids, > so she made me her parent and everyone elses too...Still to this day she > drives me crazy if I talk to her too much or am around her..Funny thing is > for me, I had forgotten all the bad when I was little, in fact I don't > remember her being really verbally mean as a small child, (it started more > in my teenage years), she made me her caretaker when it came to handling my > alcoholic Dad..It was when I got my divorce and moved back to the town where > they all live my nightmare began...I moved in with my parents for a brief > time, but I was lucky to get out, because nada didn't want that at all...She > tryed to tell me where to go, who to see, and if I didn't do it the way she > wanted me too, she would figure out a way for it to happen that way...She > tryed to keep my daughter from me by kicking me out of the house, basically > on to the streets, I had only lived in this state when I moved in with them, > so I knew no one except for this guy I had been dating, which she hated in > the first place...She would pick up the phone, everytime he'd call and > scream at us and tell us to get off...I was 27 (I'm 54 now) years old then > and before my divorce had been married for 6 years...I ended up having to > call the guy, and moving in with him, so there I ended up in a relationship > I didn't need to be in anyway, because of Nada...Funny, she put me where she > didn't want me in the first place, just because she wouldn't let me figure > things out on my own...My daughter was with them alone for about 3 weeks,I > tryed and tryed to go visit her and call her and my nada wouldn't let > me...My poor little girl at the time was 4 and had never been away from me > at the time, she didn't know what to think...when I finally got a place to > live I went to get her, and my Dad at the time wasn't going to let me take > her, which was strange, we figured out at that point nada had lied to him > and told him I just never came back and ran off with this man...When I told > him the truth he believed me and just said, " Go get your girl. " He was so > mad at her....So now, my contact has been off and on, or NC...If I am too > close with her now, what she does is constantly run my siblings down and > complain about them and run their lives...She also trys to pull me in to her > insanity about them,it's scary because she has a way of making you believe > things at times...She has always played he children against one another, so > you have to watch it with her... > > She knows she can't push me anymore..I've never asked her for anything > again, since I moved in with them all those years ago...I've tryed to tell > my younger sister for years, you can't depend on her in anyway because if > you do she will use it to her advantage..She still trys to manipulate > everyone, she's still belittling and no matter what the incident,(even > though we know she caused it) she is always the victim...I have one brother > who she has made so weak, he ended up back at home with her, after my father > died...He's been there since, like for 20 years..It's so sad too, he is such > a good looking man, sweet and gentle to old people, small children and > women, he's never been married..He's very articulate and can fix, and do > almost anything he sets his mind too, but she's beat him down so bad he's > become somewhat antisocial and we think he has a fear of the outside > world..So it's all great for her because she has her built in > caretaker...She would have preferred to have, had me, but she didn't get her > way when I grew up...I hate her guts for all the things she has caused for > my siblings..I got married young and was living in another state for those 7 > years (best thing that could have happen to me), I learned how to take care > of myself and have always done it, I'm very happy, confident and well > adjusted compared to my siblings... I just can't be around her, because she > brings horrible rage and anger in me if I'm with her too much..Of course > it's all vented towards her...I've told her recently she has no business > judging anyones mothering skills because she was the suckiest mother on > earth! > > Sorry for the long story, I was up and couldn't sleep so you helped me > out...LOL! Don't worry about being long distance from your nada...I live in > the same town just 3 miles away and once again we haven't spoke for a month > now...I'm going to keep it that way for as long as I can, although I'm sure > my poor brother will call me about something and it's really hard for me not > to help my siblings still to this day...I'm working on getting my younger > sister strong now, she was the youngest of all of us, and she has some real > problems because of Nada... > I guess I'll always be a caretaker to a certain point, but I know that I > can go to my grave and my children are happy, well adjusted and we have a > wonderful relationship and that's what matters in life is yourself and your > family...Good night and good luck... Jill > > > > > > This article has me thinking and stewing a bit I'm curious to see others > reactions to it. I'm fighting a bit of internal FOGgging. > > > > > http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2010/09/01/my_mother_deathbed/index.html > > > > And do any of you get the feeling that the author had an unhappy > relationship with the mother and was an involuntary caregiver? I worry about > the social pressure on me to do the same when the time comes. I hope to do > most everything to manage her care long distance, but...it produces lots of > conflicting emotions. My mother never beat me or tried to kill me or even > attempted suicide. Sometimes I wonder if I belong on this board even, but my > therapists say she's BPD, and she still managed to completely eff me up with > emotionally anyway. Yet a little voice says what she did wasn't extreme > *enough* for me to leave her to die " alone " . Yet for me to live close enough > to her for that not to be the case, I'd live close enough for her to make me > insane - possibly for years - before she got to her end of life. So I still > stand by my choices living far away, making phone calls, but I feel a storm > is coming and I'm not sure I'm ready. > > > > Anybody else in this boat? Do you worry that it's a big enough boat? > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 Y'all are nicer than I am. My brother (my only sibling) just moved out of state. Nada is shit out of luck should she need tending to as she ages, because I am *certainly* not taking that on. Ninera > > Subject: Re: nadas end of life > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > Date: Thursday, September 2, 2010, 3:51 PM > Fascinating article. Yes, I got > the impression that the daughter didn't have a great > relationship with her mother before the terminal > illness. How can one have a great relationship with > such a control freak, particularly when its one's mother who > is such an extreme control freak and has your entire life > planned out for you and is rushing you from one thing to the > next to keep on schedule? That is being treated like a > mere object, an inanimate thing with no feelings, or like a > pet lap dog who gets carried around in a purse all day and > has no option to have a personal opinion that differs from > The Mother/or The Owner in any way. I started getting > a headache just reading about it. There is a lot of > the Control Freak in my nada, too. > > Fortunately for me, I have a Sister who is willing and able > to handle our nada's current (minimal) needs and her > eventual end of life needs and I will be only peripherally > involved. If through unforseen circumstances and > tragedy I should lose my Sister and wind up being nada's > only living child, I suppose that duty will fall on > me. > > And I guess I'll just deal with it, somehow, out of duty > only. > > -Annie > > > > > > > > > This article has me thinking and stewing a bit I'm > curious to see others reactions to it. I'm fighting a > bit of internal FOGgging. > > > > http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2010/09/01/my_mother_deathbed/index.html > > > > And do any of you get the feeling that the author had > an unhappy relationship with the mother and was an > involuntary caregiver? I worry about the social > pressure on me to do the same when the time comes. I > hope to do most everything to manage her care long distance, > but...it produces lots of conflicting emotions. My > mother never beat me or tried to kill me or even attempted > suicide. Sometimes I wonder if I belong on this board > even, but my therapists say she's BPD, and she still managed > to completely eff me up with emotionally anyway. Yet a > little voice says what she did wasn't extreme *enough* for > me to leave her to die " alone " . Yet for me to live > close enough to her for that not to be the case, I'd live > close enough for her to make me insane - possibly for years > - before she got to her end of life.   So I > still stand by my choices living far away, making phone > calls, but I feel a storm is coming and I'm not sure I'm > ready. > > > > Anybody else in this boat? Do you worry that > it's a big enough boat? > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new > book The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality > Disorder: New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells, > available at www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write @.... > DO NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST. > > To unsub from this list, send a blank email to WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe . > > > Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline > Parent, " and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to > find) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 Hmm, this story makes me feel kind of sad, not because she died. People grow old and die. the process is difficult, but then so is living. The thing that made me sad was seeing that this woman had a mother who was capable of organizing a day, planning a meal, coordinating a party. Sounds like me. Those are the things I do. The meals for the week are planned on Sunday. The laundry is also done. Writing and projects are worked on on Fri and Sat. . . etc etc.Then the day job is taken care of as much as possibl Mon -Thursday. .. . One of the things my mother always hated about me was how I planned out my day when I got up in the morning, if not the night before, or sometimes a week before, depending on what needed to be done. I think she could have killed me over that one fact alone. It made her so damn angry. > > > Y'all are nicer than I am. > > My brother (my only sibling) just moved out of state. Nada is shit out of > luck should she need tending to as she ages, because I am *certainly* not > taking that on. > > Ninera > > > > > From: anuria67854 <anuria-67854@... <anuria-67854%40mypacks.net> > > > > Subject: Re: nadas end of life > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 <WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, September 2, 2010, 3:51 PM > > > Fascinating article. Yes, I got > > the impression that the daughter didn't have a great > > relationship with her mother before the terminal > > illness. How can one have a great relationship with > > such a control freak, particularly when its one's mother who > > is such an extreme control freak and has your entire life > > planned out for you and is rushing you from one thing to the > > next to keep on schedule? That is being treated like a > > mere object, an inanimate thing with no feelings, or like a > > pet lap dog who gets carried around in a purse all day and > > has no option to have a personal opinion that differs from > > The Mother/or The Owner in any way. I started getting > > a headache just reading about it. There is a lot of > > the Control Freak in my nada, too. > > > > Fortunately for me, I have a Sister who is willing and able > > to handle our nada's current (minimal) needs and her > > eventual end of life needs and I will be only peripherally > > involved. If through unforseen circumstances and > > tragedy I should lose my Sister and wind up being nada's > > only living child, I suppose that duty will fall on > > me. > > > > And I guess I'll just deal with it, somehow, out of duty > > only. > > > > -Annie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This article has me thinking and stewing a bit I'm > > curious to see others reactions to it. I'm fighting a > > bit of internal FOGgging. > > > > > > > http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2010/09/01/my_mother_deathbed/index.html > > > > > > And do any of you get the feeling that the author had > > an unhappy relationship with the mother and was an > > involuntary caregiver? I worry about the social > > pressure on me to do the same when the time comes. I > > hope to do most everything to manage her care long distance, > > but...it produces lots of conflicting emotions. My > > mother never beat me or tried to kill me or even attempted > > suicide. Sometimes I wonder if I belong on this board > > even, but my therapists say she's BPD, and she still managed > > to completely eff me up with emotionally anyway. Yet a > > little voice says what she did wasn't extreme *enough* for > > me to leave her to die " alone " . Yet for me to live > > close enough to her for that not to be the case, I'd live > > close enough for her to make me insane - possibly for years > > - before she got to her end of life. So I > > still stand by my choices living far away, making phone > > calls, but I feel a storm is coming and I'm not sure I'm > > ready. > > > > > > Anybody else in this boat? Do you worry that > > it's a big enough boat? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new > > book The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality > > Disorder: New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells, > > available at www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write @...<%40BPDCentral.com> > . > > DO NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST. > > > > To unsub from this list, send a blank email to > WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe <WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe%40ya\ hoogroups.com> > . > > > > > > Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline > > Parent, " and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to > > find) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 Hmm, this story makes me feel kind of sad, not because she died. People grow old and die. the process is difficult, but then so is living. The thing that made me sad was seeing that this woman had a mother who was capable of organizing a day, planning a meal, coordinating a party. Sounds like me. Those are the things I do. The meals for the week are planned on Sunday. The laundry is also done. Writing and projects are worked on on Fri and Sat. . . etc etc.Then the day job is taken care of as much as possibl Mon -Thursday. .. . One of the things my mother always hated about me was how I planned out my day when I got up in the morning, if not the night before, or sometimes a week before, depending on what needed to be done. I think she could have killed me over that one fact alone. It made her so damn angry. > > > Y'all are nicer than I am. > > My brother (my only sibling) just moved out of state. Nada is shit out of > luck should she need tending to as she ages, because I am *certainly* not > taking that on. > > Ninera > > > > > From: anuria67854 <anuria-67854@... <anuria-67854%40mypacks.net> > > > > Subject: Re: nadas end of life > > To: WTOAdultChildren1 <WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com> > > Date: Thursday, September 2, 2010, 3:51 PM > > > Fascinating article. Yes, I got > > the impression that the daughter didn't have a great > > relationship with her mother before the terminal > > illness. How can one have a great relationship with > > such a control freak, particularly when its one's mother who > > is such an extreme control freak and has your entire life > > planned out for you and is rushing you from one thing to the > > next to keep on schedule? That is being treated like a > > mere object, an inanimate thing with no feelings, or like a > > pet lap dog who gets carried around in a purse all day and > > has no option to have a personal opinion that differs from > > The Mother/or The Owner in any way. I started getting > > a headache just reading about it. There is a lot of > > the Control Freak in my nada, too. > > > > Fortunately for me, I have a Sister who is willing and able > > to handle our nada's current (minimal) needs and her > > eventual end of life needs and I will be only peripherally > > involved. If through unforseen circumstances and > > tragedy I should lose my Sister and wind up being nada's > > only living child, I suppose that duty will fall on > > me. > > > > And I guess I'll just deal with it, somehow, out of duty > > only. > > > > -Annie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This article has me thinking and stewing a bit I'm > > curious to see others reactions to it. I'm fighting a > > bit of internal FOGgging. > > > > > > > http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2010/09/01/my_mother_deathbed/index.html > > > > > > And do any of you get the feeling that the author had > > an unhappy relationship with the mother and was an > > involuntary caregiver? I worry about the social > > pressure on me to do the same when the time comes. I > > hope to do most everything to manage her care long distance, > > but...it produces lots of conflicting emotions. My > > mother never beat me or tried to kill me or even attempted > > suicide. Sometimes I wonder if I belong on this board > > even, but my therapists say she's BPD, and she still managed > > to completely eff me up with emotionally anyway. Yet a > > little voice says what she did wasn't extreme *enough* for > > me to leave her to die " alone " . Yet for me to live > > close enough to her for that not to be the case, I'd live > > close enough for her to make me insane - possibly for years > > - before she got to her end of life. So I > > still stand by my choices living far away, making phone > > calls, but I feel a storm is coming and I'm not sure I'm > > ready. > > > > > > Anybody else in this boat? Do you worry that > > it's a big enough boat? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new > > book The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality > > Disorder: New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells, > > available at www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write @...<%40BPDCentral.com> > . > > DO NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST. > > > > To unsub from this list, send a blank email to > WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe <WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe%40ya\ hoogroups.com> > . > > > > > > Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline > > Parent, " and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to > > find) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 " I actually admire people who are highly organized and efficient. You don't sound *overly* organized or *obsessively* organized or domineering to me, and I'm not getting the impression that you force and pressure those around you to comply with your schedule and organization methods...or else! That just sounds normal and mentally healthy to me! " Oh thanks Annie, that means a lot to me! I'm afraid I need nearly constant reassurance that " I'm okay, " more right now, I'm not sure why. .. Will talk to therapist about it. . . Yeah, I like the organized, structured person I am. I do make appts for boyfriend, but not without asking him. And for my dogs, ha ha, but that is pretty much just vet and grooming. Other than that, I just structure my own time. So I guess thats good. I like to feel a sense of accomplishment at the end of the day, so I do organize my time. . . I've always been that way. I wonder where I learned it? Certainly not from nada, her idea of order was lining up her bags of chips next to the bed with her stack of books as she slept/read/ate all day nearly every day. So do you guys get the feeling there are 2 types of nadas - super organized/cruel/queen I guess and completely disogranized/cruel/waif - My nada could for sure play the queen, but she was never ever organized. On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 11:17 AM, anuria67854 wrote: > > > Me personally, I think there's a *big* difference in being highly organized > *yourself*, as opposed to forcing your idea of being properly organized and > what should be done on the schedule you've created *on other people*. > > The author of the article described how her mother wouldn't let her > daughter just enjoy a little vacation at the summer house, the mother had > every minute of her (adult!) daughter's day planned out *for her.* And it > sounded exhausting (to me.) I'm one of those people who think vacations > should be about relaxing, not about seeing how many activities you can cram > into one day. That feels like being at work to me! > > I actually admire people who are highly organized and efficient. You don't > sound *overly* organized or *obsessively* organized or domineering to me, > and I'm not getting the impression that you force and pressure those around > you to comply with your schedule and organization methods...or else! > > That just sounds normal and mentally healthy to me! > > -Annie > > > > > > > > > > > > > This article has me thinking and stewing a bit I'm > > > > curious to see others reactions to it. I'm fighting a > > > > bit of internal FOGgging. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2010/09/01/my_mother_deathbed/index.html > > > > > > > > > > And do any of you get the feeling that the author had > > > > an unhappy relationship with the mother and was an > > > > involuntary caregiver? I worry about the social > > > > pressure on me to do the same when the time comes. I > > > > hope to do most everything to manage her care long distance, > > > > but...it produces lots of conflicting emotions. My > > > > mother never beat me or tried to kill me or even attempted > > > > suicide. Sometimes I wonder if I belong on this board > > > > even, but my therapists say she's BPD, and she still managed > > > > to completely eff me up with emotionally anyway. Yet a > > > > little voice says what she did wasn't extreme *enough* for > > > > me to leave her to die " alone " . Yet for me to live > > > > close enough to her for that not to be the case, I'd live > > > > close enough for her to make me insane - possibly for years > > > > - before she got to her end of life. So I > > > > still stand by my choices living far away, making phone > > > > calls, but I feel a storm is coming and I'm not sure I'm > > > > ready. > > > > > > > > > > Anybody else in this boat? Do you worry that > > > > it's a big enough boat? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new > > > > book The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality > > > > Disorder: New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells, > > > > available at www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write @...<%40BPDCentral.com> > > > > > . > > > > DO NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST. > > > > > > > > To unsub from this list, send a blank email to > > > WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe <WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe%40ya\ hoogroups.com> > <WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline > > > > Parent, " and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to > > > > find) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 Whoa, yeah that is too rigid. So opposite of my nada, who didn't pay her bills for a long time, and then when she did she would set up a card table and go through months and months of papers. . . and make a huge mess. I lived in a filthy house. And she was always breaking, loosing, or giving away all of our possesions. She was also a hoarder - of stuff. And I worried she would hoard animals too and ruin their lives too, she had a lot, but I think my dad kept that under control. It's so weird that they have the same disorder, but its manifested in opposite ways. I'm not rigid/brittle like that. Ha ha, I work with artists, and I do PR for a living. Flexibility is the one thing that I know I have to have to get through a day. But I do like to plan my day, make my to do list, and use my planner. Wow, its weird that she hated that about me so much. I think she just hated me. Period. On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 2:03 PM, anuria67854 wrote: > > > Seems to me that " the middle road " is usually the healthiest route. Its > great to be organized and efficient as long as you can also be spontaneous > sometimes. Its the extreme ends of the spectrum that cause unhappiness and > rigid, brittle relationships. > > My nada would become stressed, anxious, hostile and abusive if the house > was even slightly disorganized or untidy. She became extremely verbally > abusive to me once when I'd misplaced and then located one of her bills (I'd > come to nurse her for 3 months before, during and after a major operation > she needed) and oops, that one bill didn't get paid exactly on time, and > you'd think I'd committed a mass murder. > > Never mind that I'd given up three months of my life and my salary to come > care for her, she had to make a big freaking issue out of humiliating and > shaming me over that one mistake I made about one bill. Nada is way too > rigid, controlling, perfectionistic and obsessive-compulsive about such > things and its just another reason I don't want to be around her anymore. > > That's my philosophy, anyway. I like to stay away from the extremes now > that I have a choice in the matter. > > > -Annie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This article has me thinking and stewing a bit I'm > > > > > > curious to see others reactions to it. I'm fighting a > > > > > > bit of internal FOGgging. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2010/09/01/my_mother_deathbed/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And do any of you get the feeling that the author had > > > > > > an unhappy relationship with the mother and was an > > > > > > involuntary caregiver? I worry about the social > > > > > > pressure on me to do the same when the time comes. I > > > > > > hope to do most everything to manage her care long distance, > > > > > > but...it produces lots of conflicting emotions. My > > > > > > mother never beat me or tried to kill me or even attempted > > > > > > suicide. Sometimes I wonder if I belong on this board > > > > > > even, but my therapists say she's BPD, and she still managed > > > > > > to completely eff me up with emotionally anyway. Yet a > > > > > > little voice says what she did wasn't extreme *enough* for > > > > > > me to leave her to die " alone " . Yet for me to live > > > > > > close enough to her for that not to be the case, I'd live > > > > > > close enough for her to make me insane - possibly for years > > > > > > - before she got to her end of life. So I > > > > > > still stand by my choices living far away, making phone > > > > > > calls, but I feel a storm is coming and I'm not sure I'm > > > > > > ready. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anybody else in this boat? Do you worry that > > > > > > it's a big enough boat? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new > > > > > > book The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality > > > > > > Disorder: New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells, > > > > > > available at www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write @ > <%40BPDCentral.com> > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > DO NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST. > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsub from this list, send a blank email to > > > > > WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe <WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe%40ya\ hoogroups.com> > <WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline > > > > > > Parent, " and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to > > > > > > find) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 Whoa, yeah that is too rigid. So opposite of my nada, who didn't pay her bills for a long time, and then when she did she would set up a card table and go through months and months of papers. . . and make a huge mess. I lived in a filthy house. And she was always breaking, loosing, or giving away all of our possesions. She was also a hoarder - of stuff. And I worried she would hoard animals too and ruin their lives too, she had a lot, but I think my dad kept that under control. It's so weird that they have the same disorder, but its manifested in opposite ways. I'm not rigid/brittle like that. Ha ha, I work with artists, and I do PR for a living. Flexibility is the one thing that I know I have to have to get through a day. But I do like to plan my day, make my to do list, and use my planner. Wow, its weird that she hated that about me so much. I think she just hated me. Period. On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 2:03 PM, anuria67854 wrote: > > > Seems to me that " the middle road " is usually the healthiest route. Its > great to be organized and efficient as long as you can also be spontaneous > sometimes. Its the extreme ends of the spectrum that cause unhappiness and > rigid, brittle relationships. > > My nada would become stressed, anxious, hostile and abusive if the house > was even slightly disorganized or untidy. She became extremely verbally > abusive to me once when I'd misplaced and then located one of her bills (I'd > come to nurse her for 3 months before, during and after a major operation > she needed) and oops, that one bill didn't get paid exactly on time, and > you'd think I'd committed a mass murder. > > Never mind that I'd given up three months of my life and my salary to come > care for her, she had to make a big freaking issue out of humiliating and > shaming me over that one mistake I made about one bill. Nada is way too > rigid, controlling, perfectionistic and obsessive-compulsive about such > things and its just another reason I don't want to be around her anymore. > > That's my philosophy, anyway. I like to stay away from the extremes now > that I have a choice in the matter. > > > -Annie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This article has me thinking and stewing a bit I'm > > > > > > curious to see others reactions to it. I'm fighting a > > > > > > bit of internal FOGgging. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2010/09/01/my_mother_deathbed/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And do any of you get the feeling that the author had > > > > > > an unhappy relationship with the mother and was an > > > > > > involuntary caregiver? I worry about the social > > > > > > pressure on me to do the same when the time comes. I > > > > > > hope to do most everything to manage her care long distance, > > > > > > but...it produces lots of conflicting emotions. My > > > > > > mother never beat me or tried to kill me or even attempted > > > > > > suicide. Sometimes I wonder if I belong on this board > > > > > > even, but my therapists say she's BPD, and she still managed > > > > > > to completely eff me up with emotionally anyway. Yet a > > > > > > little voice says what she did wasn't extreme *enough* for > > > > > > me to leave her to die " alone " . Yet for me to live > > > > > > close enough to her for that not to be the case, I'd live > > > > > > close enough for her to make me insane - possibly for years > > > > > > - before she got to her end of life. So I > > > > > > still stand by my choices living far away, making phone > > > > > > calls, but I feel a storm is coming and I'm not sure I'm > > > > > > ready. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anybody else in this boat? Do you worry that > > > > > > it's a big enough boat? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new > > > > > > book The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality > > > > > > Disorder: New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells, > > > > > > available at www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write @ > <%40BPDCentral.com> > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > DO NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST. > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsub from this list, send a blank email to > > > > > WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe <WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe%40ya\ hoogroups.com> > <WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline > > > > > > Parent, " and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to > > > > > > find) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 Well said, Annie. resented competitor, enemy, clutching, punishing for existing. Extreme mess - but she still had a right and wrong way to fold. She was very weird about the laundry. It was the only thing she would do herself, and she would always put my clothes on the bottom, so I had dirty clothes for school day after day. Ugh. . . . On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 3:36 PM, anuria67854 wrote: > > > The common factor seems to be extremism: that bpd " black or white " > thinking, that " all or nothing " kind of thinking. No gray areas, no middle > ground. Either its extreme mess and disorganization to the point of living > in filth, or extreme hyper-organization and hospital-operating-room > cleanliness to the point that folding the towels " wrong " will get the child > punished. > > And in relationships: over-controlling, domineering and intrusive, or > negligent and abandoning, or exploitative. Nothing just normal and balanced. > Treating her child like an extension of her own body, her third arm or like > a kind of inanimate doll that doesn't have any will of its own, or like an > enemy or a resented competitor. > > That happy nurturing mixture that normal parents have of guidance, empathy > and validation, mixed with the willingness to step back when the time is > right for each level of independence that encourages a child and young > person to feel self-confident and willing to take chances and try things and > learn and grow... all that seems to be just missing with the bpd parent. > > Instead the bpd parent either clutches the child to herself in a grip of > cold fear, or torments and punishes her child for merely existing, or > actively pushes her child away, rejecting her altogether, or exploits her > child, using the child for her own gratification. > > No middle, happy ground for the kids of the personality disordered; instead > its one horrible extreme or another. > > > -Annie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This article has me thinking and stewing a bit I'm > > > > > > > > curious to see others reactions to it. I'm fighting a > > > > > > > > bit of internal FOGgging. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2010/09/01/my_mother_deathbed/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And do any of you get the feeling that the author had > > > > > > > > an unhappy relationship with the mother and was an > > > > > > > > involuntary caregiver? I worry about the social > > > > > > > > pressure on me to do the same when the time comes. I > > > > > > > > hope to do most everything to manage her care long distance, > > > > > > > > but...it produces lots of conflicting emotions. My > > > > > > > > mother never beat me or tried to kill me or even attempted > > > > > > > > suicide. Sometimes I wonder if I belong on this board > > > > > > > > even, but my therapists say she's BPD, and she still managed > > > > > > > > to completely eff me up with emotionally anyway. Yet a > > > > > > > > little voice says what she did wasn't extreme *enough* for > > > > > > > > me to leave her to die " alone " . Yet for me to live > > > > > > > > close enough to her for that not to be the case, I'd live > > > > > > > > close enough for her to make me insane - possibly for years > > > > > > > > - before she got to her end of life. So I > > > > > > > > still stand by my choices living far away, making phone > > > > > > > > calls, but I feel a storm is coming and I'm not sure I'm > > > > > > > > ready. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anybody else in this boat? Do you worry that > > > > > > > > it's a big enough boat? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new > > > > > > > > book The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality > > > > > > > > Disorder: New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells, > > > > > > > > available at www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write @ > > > <%40BPDCentral.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > DO NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsub from this list, send a blank email to > > > > > > > WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe <WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe%40ya\ hoogroups.com> > <WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline > > > > > > > > Parent, " and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to > > > > > > > > find) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2010 Report Share Posted September 3, 2010 yeah, hoarding can be a BPD thing for sure. Often associated with the hermit type. Mine was one, and did so with animals to some degree. My dad and I used to take care of the animals she would bring home. Except for the poor, poor, poor hamsters that were out of our reach. I wonder what happens to them now. . . Poor things. Not my job. . . > > > Elora, millions of cats? Mine too - she has definitely had problems with > too many animals and keeping them in neglectful conditions. I wonder if > hoarding (animal and otherwise) is somehow connected with BPD? I've noticed > when I've read accounts of COH's (children of hoarders) that many of their > mothers sound BPD. It looks like you've got a clear cut case for NC - I > would feel zero guilt about walking away if my nada had ever tried to kill > me. I'm sorry you went through that but glad you've got better circumstances > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Annie, so if you were an only child, would feel a sense of duty? > How would you negotiate that with your mental safety? I know it's > hypothetical but just curious. It seems some nadas have done things so awful > that it negates any obligations, but if it's underneath that but still bad > the gray area gets confusing. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2010 Report Share Posted September 3, 2010 yeah, hoarding can be a BPD thing for sure. Often associated with the hermit type. Mine was one, and did so with animals to some degree. My dad and I used to take care of the animals she would bring home. Except for the poor, poor, poor hamsters that were out of our reach. I wonder what happens to them now. . . Poor things. Not my job. . . > > > Elora, millions of cats? Mine too - she has definitely had problems with > too many animals and keeping them in neglectful conditions. I wonder if > hoarding (animal and otherwise) is somehow connected with BPD? I've noticed > when I've read accounts of COH's (children of hoarders) that many of their > mothers sound BPD. It looks like you've got a clear cut case for NC - I > would feel zero guilt about walking away if my nada had ever tried to kill > me. I'm sorry you went through that but glad you've got better circumstances > now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Annie, so if you were an only child, would feel a sense of duty? > How would you negotiate that with your mental safety? I know it's > hypothetical but just curious. It seems some nadas have done things so awful > that it negates any obligations, but if it's underneath that but still bad > the gray area gets confusing. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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