Guest guest Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 " I actually admire people who are highly organized and efficient. You don't sound *overly* organized or *obsessively* organized or domineering to me, and I'm not getting the impression that you force and pressure those around you to comply with your schedule and organization methods...or else! That just sounds normal and mentally healthy to me! " Oh thanks Annie, that means a lot to me! I'm afraid I need nearly constant reassurance that " I'm okay, " more right now, I'm not sure why. .. Will talk to therapist about it. . . Yeah, I like the organized, structured person I am. I do make appts for boyfriend, but not without asking him. And for my dogs, ha ha, but that is pretty much just vet and grooming. Other than that, I just structure my own time. So I guess thats good. I like to feel a sense of accomplishment at the end of the day, so I do organize my time. . . I've always been that way. I wonder where I learned it? Certainly not from nada, her idea of order was lining up her bags of chips next to the bed with her stack of books as she slept/read/ate all day nearly every day. So do you guys get the feeling there are 2 types of nadas - super organized/cruel/queen I guess and completely disogranized/cruel/waif - My nada could for sure play the queen, but she was never ever organized. On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 11:17 AM, anuria67854 wrote: > > > Me personally, I think there's a *big* difference in being highly organized > *yourself*, as opposed to forcing your idea of being properly organized and > what should be done on the schedule you've created *on other people*. > > The author of the article described how her mother wouldn't let her > daughter just enjoy a little vacation at the summer house, the mother had > every minute of her (adult!) daughter's day planned out *for her.* And it > sounded exhausting (to me.) I'm one of those people who think vacations > should be about relaxing, not about seeing how many activities you can cram > into one day. That feels like being at work to me! > > I actually admire people who are highly organized and efficient. You don't > sound *overly* organized or *obsessively* organized or domineering to me, > and I'm not getting the impression that you force and pressure those around > you to comply with your schedule and organization methods...or else! > > That just sounds normal and mentally healthy to me! > > -Annie > > > > > > > > > > > > > This article has me thinking and stewing a bit I'm > > > > curious to see others reactions to it. I'm fighting a > > > > bit of internal FOGgging. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2010/09/01/my_mother_deathbed/index.html > > > > > > > > > > And do any of you get the feeling that the author had > > > > an unhappy relationship with the mother and was an > > > > involuntary caregiver? I worry about the social > > > > pressure on me to do the same when the time comes. I > > > > hope to do most everything to manage her care long distance, > > > > but...it produces lots of conflicting emotions. My > > > > mother never beat me or tried to kill me or even attempted > > > > suicide. Sometimes I wonder if I belong on this board > > > > even, but my therapists say she's BPD, and she still managed > > > > to completely eff me up with emotionally anyway. Yet a > > > > little voice says what she did wasn't extreme *enough* for > > > > me to leave her to die " alone " . Yet for me to live > > > > close enough to her for that not to be the case, I'd live > > > > close enough for her to make me insane - possibly for years > > > > - before she got to her end of life. So I > > > > still stand by my choices living far away, making phone > > > > calls, but I feel a storm is coming and I'm not sure I'm > > > > ready. > > > > > > > > > > Anybody else in this boat? Do you worry that > > > > it's a big enough boat? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new > > > > book The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality > > > > Disorder: New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells, > > > > available at www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write @...<%40BPDCentral.com> > > > > > . > > > > DO NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST. > > > > > > > > To unsub from this list, send a blank email to > > > WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe <WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe%40ya\ hoogroups.com> > <WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline > > > > Parent, " and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to > > > > find) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 Whoa, yeah that is too rigid. So opposite of my nada, who didn't pay her bills for a long time, and then when she did she would set up a card table and go through months and months of papers. . . and make a huge mess. I lived in a filthy house. And she was always breaking, loosing, or giving away all of our possesions. She was also a hoarder - of stuff. And I worried she would hoard animals too and ruin their lives too, she had a lot, but I think my dad kept that under control. It's so weird that they have the same disorder, but its manifested in opposite ways. I'm not rigid/brittle like that. Ha ha, I work with artists, and I do PR for a living. Flexibility is the one thing that I know I have to have to get through a day. But I do like to plan my day, make my to do list, and use my planner. Wow, its weird that she hated that about me so much. I think she just hated me. Period. On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 2:03 PM, anuria67854 wrote: > > > Seems to me that " the middle road " is usually the healthiest route. Its > great to be organized and efficient as long as you can also be spontaneous > sometimes. Its the extreme ends of the spectrum that cause unhappiness and > rigid, brittle relationships. > > My nada would become stressed, anxious, hostile and abusive if the house > was even slightly disorganized or untidy. She became extremely verbally > abusive to me once when I'd misplaced and then located one of her bills (I'd > come to nurse her for 3 months before, during and after a major operation > she needed) and oops, that one bill didn't get paid exactly on time, and > you'd think I'd committed a mass murder. > > Never mind that I'd given up three months of my life and my salary to come > care for her, she had to make a big freaking issue out of humiliating and > shaming me over that one mistake I made about one bill. Nada is way too > rigid, controlling, perfectionistic and obsessive-compulsive about such > things and its just another reason I don't want to be around her anymore. > > That's my philosophy, anyway. I like to stay away from the extremes now > that I have a choice in the matter. > > > -Annie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This article has me thinking and stewing a bit I'm > > > > > > curious to see others reactions to it. I'm fighting a > > > > > > bit of internal FOGgging. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2010/09/01/my_mother_deathbed/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And do any of you get the feeling that the author had > > > > > > an unhappy relationship with the mother and was an > > > > > > involuntary caregiver? I worry about the social > > > > > > pressure on me to do the same when the time comes. I > > > > > > hope to do most everything to manage her care long distance, > > > > > > but...it produces lots of conflicting emotions. My > > > > > > mother never beat me or tried to kill me or even attempted > > > > > > suicide. Sometimes I wonder if I belong on this board > > > > > > even, but my therapists say she's BPD, and she still managed > > > > > > to completely eff me up with emotionally anyway. Yet a > > > > > > little voice says what she did wasn't extreme *enough* for > > > > > > me to leave her to die " alone " . Yet for me to live > > > > > > close enough to her for that not to be the case, I'd live > > > > > > close enough for her to make me insane - possibly for years > > > > > > - before she got to her end of life. So I > > > > > > still stand by my choices living far away, making phone > > > > > > calls, but I feel a storm is coming and I'm not sure I'm > > > > > > ready. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anybody else in this boat? Do you worry that > > > > > > it's a big enough boat? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new > > > > > > book The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality > > > > > > Disorder: New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells, > > > > > > available at www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write @ > <%40BPDCentral.com> > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > DO NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST. > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsub from this list, send a blank email to > > > > > WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe <WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe%40ya\ hoogroups.com> > <WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline > > > > > > Parent, " and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to > > > > > > find) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2010 Report Share Posted September 2, 2010 Well said, Annie. resented competitor, enemy, clutching, punishing for existing. Extreme mess - but she still had a right and wrong way to fold. She was very weird about the laundry. It was the only thing she would do herself, and she would always put my clothes on the bottom, so I had dirty clothes for school day after day. Ugh. . . . On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 3:36 PM, anuria67854 wrote: > > > The common factor seems to be extremism: that bpd " black or white " > thinking, that " all or nothing " kind of thinking. No gray areas, no middle > ground. Either its extreme mess and disorganization to the point of living > in filth, or extreme hyper-organization and hospital-operating-room > cleanliness to the point that folding the towels " wrong " will get the child > punished. > > And in relationships: over-controlling, domineering and intrusive, or > negligent and abandoning, or exploitative. Nothing just normal and balanced. > Treating her child like an extension of her own body, her third arm or like > a kind of inanimate doll that doesn't have any will of its own, or like an > enemy or a resented competitor. > > That happy nurturing mixture that normal parents have of guidance, empathy > and validation, mixed with the willingness to step back when the time is > right for each level of independence that encourages a child and young > person to feel self-confident and willing to take chances and try things and > learn and grow... all that seems to be just missing with the bpd parent. > > Instead the bpd parent either clutches the child to herself in a grip of > cold fear, or torments and punishes her child for merely existing, or > actively pushes her child away, rejecting her altogether, or exploits her > child, using the child for her own gratification. > > No middle, happy ground for the kids of the personality disordered; instead > its one horrible extreme or another. > > > -Annie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This article has me thinking and stewing a bit I'm > > > > > > > > curious to see others reactions to it. I'm fighting a > > > > > > > > bit of internal FOGgging. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2010/09/01/my_mother_deathbed/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And do any of you get the feeling that the author had > > > > > > > > an unhappy relationship with the mother and was an > > > > > > > > involuntary caregiver? I worry about the social > > > > > > > > pressure on me to do the same when the time comes. I > > > > > > > > hope to do most everything to manage her care long distance, > > > > > > > > but...it produces lots of conflicting emotions. My > > > > > > > > mother never beat me or tried to kill me or even attempted > > > > > > > > suicide. Sometimes I wonder if I belong on this board > > > > > > > > even, but my therapists say she's BPD, and she still managed > > > > > > > > to completely eff me up with emotionally anyway. Yet a > > > > > > > > little voice says what she did wasn't extreme *enough* for > > > > > > > > me to leave her to die " alone " . Yet for me to live > > > > > > > > close enough to her for that not to be the case, I'd live > > > > > > > > close enough for her to make me insane - possibly for years > > > > > > > > - before she got to her end of life. So I > > > > > > > > still stand by my choices living far away, making phone > > > > > > > > calls, but I feel a storm is coming and I'm not sure I'm > > > > > > > > ready. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anybody else in this boat? Do you worry that > > > > > > > > it's a big enough boat? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new > > > > > > > > book The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality > > > > > > > > Disorder: New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells, > > > > > > > > available at www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write @ > > > <%40BPDCentral.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > DO NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsub from this list, send a blank email to > > > > > > > WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe <WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe%40ya\ hoogroups.com> > <WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> > > > <WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > <WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline > > > > > > > > Parent, " and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to > > > > > > > > find) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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