Guest guest Posted August 11, 2010 Report Share Posted August 11, 2010 Everything that said is spot on. On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 10:47 AM, shirleyspawn wrote: > > > Hi, ddfred - > > I think a lot of us on here have grown " spines of steel " when we had our > own kids - because we were absolutely determined that our BPD parents > wouldn't get the chance to do to our kids what they did to us. So the > supervised visits, refusal to let your children be alone with the > grandparents, it all sounds familiar. > > Your husband sounds like a nice guy, but in this case I think he's wrong. > Blood ties alone are not enough to mandate a close relationship with > mentally ill, emotionally abusive people. There are plenty of good, kind, > loving people in the world who can be surrogate grandparents to your kids. > Find them. > > It might help to know that as kids get older, the BPD grandparents > sometimes lose interest or start demonizing the children - because as they > develop their own personalities and start having lots of activities and > demands on their time, kids aren't available to go cater to Grandma's need > for attention. So sometimes the kids start pulling away, and the problem > solves itself. > > A warning here - if you allow your parents unrestricted access to your > children, or try to " normalize " the relationship, your kids will think that > their grandparents are SUPPOSED to be allowed to come in the house any time, > or that they should ALWAYS open the door to Grandma, or that if Grandma > comes to school in the afternoon, it's OK to get in the car with her and go > for ice cream. In my case, my mother wouldn't have hurt my son, but she > would NOT follow our rules for him. Based on some of her behavior, we knew > that it was entirely possible she would pick him up after school on a Friday > without telling me, take him to her home 2 hours away, then call me to tell > me he was spending the weekend - and she'd be dumbfounded if I was > hysterical because I thought he'd been kidnapped. > > Therefore, we had to tell him that he is NEVER to get in the car with > Grandmother unless we are right there, he is NEVER to answer the phone when > she calls, etc. We also put notices in his school file that she was NEVER to > pick him up, and we stipulated in our wills that she was not to get custody > if we both died. It was that serious in our case. > > Now that he's in his teens, he's quite cognizant of her mental illness. He > speaks to her with respect and patience, but he knows that he can't ever > agree to anything she requests, that he has to think carefully before > telling her details of his life, etc. > > So you can't just think about the relationship between your parents and > your children in terms of the age your kids are right now. You have to think > ahead - do you want your mother coming to every little league game? Do you > want her to swing by the house when your kids are age 13 and home by > themselves? If not, you have some planning to do, and you need to enforce > boundaries NOW. > > Sorry it's such a bummer - > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2010 Report Share Posted August 11, 2010 Everything that said is spot on. On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 10:47 AM, shirleyspawn wrote: > > > Hi, ddfred - > > I think a lot of us on here have grown " spines of steel " when we had our > own kids - because we were absolutely determined that our BPD parents > wouldn't get the chance to do to our kids what they did to us. So the > supervised visits, refusal to let your children be alone with the > grandparents, it all sounds familiar. > > Your husband sounds like a nice guy, but in this case I think he's wrong. > Blood ties alone are not enough to mandate a close relationship with > mentally ill, emotionally abusive people. There are plenty of good, kind, > loving people in the world who can be surrogate grandparents to your kids. > Find them. > > It might help to know that as kids get older, the BPD grandparents > sometimes lose interest or start demonizing the children - because as they > develop their own personalities and start having lots of activities and > demands on their time, kids aren't available to go cater to Grandma's need > for attention. So sometimes the kids start pulling away, and the problem > solves itself. > > A warning here - if you allow your parents unrestricted access to your > children, or try to " normalize " the relationship, your kids will think that > their grandparents are SUPPOSED to be allowed to come in the house any time, > or that they should ALWAYS open the door to Grandma, or that if Grandma > comes to school in the afternoon, it's OK to get in the car with her and go > for ice cream. In my case, my mother wouldn't have hurt my son, but she > would NOT follow our rules for him. Based on some of her behavior, we knew > that it was entirely possible she would pick him up after school on a Friday > without telling me, take him to her home 2 hours away, then call me to tell > me he was spending the weekend - and she'd be dumbfounded if I was > hysterical because I thought he'd been kidnapped. > > Therefore, we had to tell him that he is NEVER to get in the car with > Grandmother unless we are right there, he is NEVER to answer the phone when > she calls, etc. We also put notices in his school file that she was NEVER to > pick him up, and we stipulated in our wills that she was not to get custody > if we both died. It was that serious in our case. > > Now that he's in his teens, he's quite cognizant of her mental illness. He > speaks to her with respect and patience, but he knows that he can't ever > agree to anything she requests, that he has to think carefully before > telling her details of his life, etc. > > So you can't just think about the relationship between your parents and > your children in terms of the age your kids are right now. You have to think > ahead - do you want your mother coming to every little league game? Do you > want her to swing by the house when your kids are age 13 and home by > themselves? If not, you have some planning to do, and you need to enforce > boundaries NOW. > > Sorry it's such a bummer - > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2010 Report Share Posted August 11, 2010 um...he divorced her. if that's what he considers 'fixing' things then he should understand your needing to divorce her as well. I don't mean to make light of it but the irony of his statements did make me smile. and please remind him, re: this statement 'that I will regret it if I never fix this between us' that YOU can't fix a problem without HER participation. and if she's not capable then the kindest thing to do is adjourn from the relationship. Unless you are a psychotherapist you aren't qualified to FIX her anyway. Honestly it sounds just like the stuff I go through with my mother ad nauseum, regarding my father, where she has so many problems with him and dumps them on me but absolutely won't acknowledge his abuse of me. And I have heard that 'you'll regret it' garbage about umpteen million things my entire life. They haven't been right about what I would regret, not even ONCE. So screw 'em. I doubt you will regret anything but listening to bad advice like what he is giving. I am so sorry because his behavior alone is very invalidating and disrespecting of your personhood. It's saying that your feelings and so on don't even matter. Nothing matters except what she feels. This is just grooming codependency in someone, and it's incredibly twisted and unfair. It's how you come up with a battered woman who is moved by her husband sitting there crying and saying he's sorry. Or whatever. There are two problems here...I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but he's so in the wrong for not validating and supporting your experience of reality with her. > > I had a conversation with my dad a few days ago. Nada and I have been NC for > almost 2 years now. At the urging of some family members, I gave her a call > last month. Everyone said that she had CHANGED and would do ANYTHING to > establish contact. I didn't believe it, but called, mostly to get family > members off my back. Of course, nada didn't change, and was up to her same > old tricks. > > Apparently nada is bragging to everyone that we are talking again. My dad > and she have been divorced for 15 years, and are not friendly, but dad knew > before I told him that nada and I had spoken. I explained to him that it was > the same old thing, and I wasn't interested in allowing that stress back > into my life, or my kids lives. > > His excuse for nada is that she 'sees life through an emotional lens'. I > guess that is one way to describe BPD, if you don't know, or choose to > believe that nada is mentally ill. He understands why I don't want the > stress right now, but still says that I will regret it if I never fix this > between us. I didn't feel like getting into it yet again, so I changed the > subject. > > I will regret that things couldn't be different. I do regret it. I wish she > was normal, that all of this had never happened, that we could have a > relationship. I think those around me that see NC maybe think that I did > this blithely, out of the blue, with no forethought. They can't see the > years of suffering and attempts at boundries before NC was established, > because we were so emeshed then, we played her games, hid the problems for > her. That was what I was raised to do. Don't rock the boat. So to them, > (with nada whispering in their ear), it looks like this was an out of the > blue temper tantrum by me, and that I just need to get over it and > 'forgive'. > > I do regret this. But I would regret more if I wasted more of my life > playing her games. And I would regret it most if I let her have access to my > children to continue the cycle. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2010 Report Share Posted August 11, 2010 Thanks Tracey (and and KT and all who responded!), I too think you're spot on. You made some REALLY good points about when they are older. How terrifying to have Nada pick up your baby and not tell you! We have it in our will too that if both of us die that Nada is never to be alone with them ever and we have told the important folks too. We never allowed all access, we were trying for the 6 times per year thing with occasional updates/ shared photos. But it's not working. Its just so much energy- it's all or nothing with Nada. But I knew that. And you are right. We already have tons of people in our lives that are really good and even keeled. Why do other people tend to think if only the Non-BP would just try harder things would work? Your " spines of steel " is too funny! I am a pretty assertive person in any other situation imaginable, but I was terrified of my nada before I had my kids. Seriously terrified. She's a scary scary person. But I can talk with her in ways now that I never would have been able to before. I can say the truth. Thanks! > > Hi, ddfred - > > I think a lot of us on here have grown " spines of steel " when we had our own kids - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2010 Report Share Posted August 11, 2010 Thanks Tracey (and and KT and all who responded!), I too think you're spot on. You made some REALLY good points about when they are older. How terrifying to have Nada pick up your baby and not tell you! We have it in our will too that if both of us die that Nada is never to be alone with them ever and we have told the important folks too. We never allowed all access, we were trying for the 6 times per year thing with occasional updates/ shared photos. But it's not working. Its just so much energy- it's all or nothing with Nada. But I knew that. And you are right. We already have tons of people in our lives that are really good and even keeled. Why do other people tend to think if only the Non-BP would just try harder things would work? Your " spines of steel " is too funny! I am a pretty assertive person in any other situation imaginable, but I was terrified of my nada before I had my kids. Seriously terrified. She's a scary scary person. But I can talk with her in ways now that I never would have been able to before. I can say the truth. Thanks! > > Hi, ddfred - > > I think a lot of us on here have grown " spines of steel " when we had our own kids - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.