Re: got you till age six

August 11, 2010

Hi ...I hear your pain and frustration over this whole thing.Of course it

hurts that what is a " small offhand remark " lays bare the essence of the

tragedy.And that you can't elucidate that for your nada in a way that she will

hear it and understand it and get it.So you then want to find a way to at least

make her stop inflicting that (not really so) small at all wound on you,one that

actually contains a world of dysfunction and a lifetime of pain in it.I wish I

knew of something that would just *work* for that.

Like with my fada a couple of times I tried to speak somewhat to the

underlying issue by saying something like, " Wow,Dad,that really seems to bother

you since you've told me this many times. " (as in,*you* have an issue with this)

But I'd get: Oh no,that's not what I meant.I was just reminded of

it,that's all...

Argh,you know,him never wanting to look closely at himself,just vent

himself at me,even if in subtle ways.And then it gets into him subtly suggesting

that *I* must be the one who has the issue with it...

Which is such a big part of the terrible tragedy here for KOs,that our

parents gave us their unexamined unresolved issues as a sort of cross for *us*

to bear in life.And although we have awareness of what it is,it's an awareness

that can be so hard and at times impossible to mediate on an existential level

as well as an emotional one.

An example from fada that isn't quite like what your nada said but has

that hologram aspect to it is him telling me when I was an adult that if my

parents hadn't " had " to buy the house they bought to live in when I was

born,that X Y and Z (perceived in a helpless way) negative consequence wouldn't

have occured in THEIR lives.Like,he went to his death absurdly believing that if

they hadn't bought that house when they did that he would have been able to go

on and get his Ph.D.Among other things that would have made his life so much

better.But basically what he was saying was a subtle: If *you* hadn't been born

when you were,we would have been better off---in essence: If you had never been

born we would have been happy.

That got to me,the way the Jesuit quote gets to you,because it is

true: that is precisely how they both treated me from infancy onwards.Like they

both wished I didn't exist; that my very existence made them miserable and was a

punishment to *them*.And it's this feeling as if I should not exist that has

taken me my entire life so far to deal with and will be a feeling element that I

will have to contend with probably for the rest of my life.

Yet when I came right out and replied to him when he brought that crap

up with buying the house again that it would have been better for them if I'd

never been born,he went: Oh no,that's not what I meant...

Not in a reassuring: How can you be so silly,of course we wanted you

voice but with this sort of nebulous emptiness.I don't know how else to describe

it.Because he really was saying that it would have been better for them if I'd

never been born but since he'd never been able to fully honestly and consciously

admit that to himself as soon as I refused to play along with his sick " subtly

suggest the truth then deny it " game,all he could do was act the passive

aggressive wounded innocent.Because of *his* issues.

Which relates so much,I think,to what you said about really wanting a

deep sincere grieving apology from your nada.Because trauma needs

condolence.Genuine condolence in some form otherwise the grief gnaws and gnaws

at the spirit.It's tragic that we will never receive that real condolence for

our suffering from our perps,our parents,since they can't or won't comprehend

what they have done.It sucks that the wider society is so uninformed about the

reality of what PD parents do to their children and can't give us the comfort of

condolence via meaningful social support that truly acknowledges our wounds and

woundedness for what they actually are.I mean,as a matter of course in a daily

way.

I have no doubt your nada does have a major issue with having felt

brainwashed and owned by her mother.But she didn't ever really deal with it.I

could go on and on--but won't--about issues my nada had that she never dealt

with and passed on to me in amplified form,amplified by her never having dealt

with her mess and putting it on me to bear.The weird thing,I think,is that they

focus on it whatever it is without ever understanding it.And then *our*

understanding of it becomes how it has mutilated *our* lives--as KOs we inherit

this life altering,life warping awareness.

And then we are left turning to shamans of various stripes in search

of the essential spirit quickening breath of life we should have gotten but

didn't get from our mothers.I didn't know that Chapman song but I looked

up the lyrics because the " Tinman " reference reminded me of that song from the

70s,I forget who did it? that had the line: But Oz never did give nothing to the

Tinman that he didn't,didn't already have...No joke,when I was a kid I used to

ponder that line with a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach! And I can

relate to what Chapman is saying there--you're right,that's a great KO

song.Sadly for her,she must be one too.

I think the last time we were posting we were talking about using

flower essences.I have to say,I haven't used them yet.I still intend to.I still

think that's going to be worthwhile.But right around the time I planned on

getting started on a " flower essences program " some more childhood toxins came

up to get through my system.I didn't want to arrest that process.I don't mean

this to sound like wallowing in masochism or clinging to negativity but I needed

to let that pain be,to let it come up and out.I personally think that for me

allowing that to happen has helped more than soothing it all away would have.I

feel like my healing is finally starting to take--that I am now at the point of

" it is what it is " more than " I can't bear what this is " ,so when I do start the

flower essences they're going to be be an adjunct therapy in the sense of

bolstering the foundation of acceptance I've begun to lay.I don't believe right

now that it's " safe " for me to exult that I'm out of the woods and free and

clear now--I don't think even that that's quite the point in life for me as a

KO.But I see an enormous difference between where I was this time last year and

now,so I'm taking strength from knowing that progress IS possible.

I honestly wish that what works for me could be shared to give a shot

in the arm to other KOs like yourself but healing is such a subjective process

and my own situation was so extreme that what has helped me might not really

speak to someone else.Having said that,I think we all need to honor what speaks

most intimately to our own spirits.You have your own reasons for being in

contact with your nada and while that is a whole other kettle of fish as you

said,it is certainly not my place to judge that and I don't.

I have alot of respect for your ability to find and maintain a

relationship with Spirit (call it God,the Creator,what you will) in the depths

of the situation you were in growing up.I have alot of respect for your

compassion,which to me is a beautiful strength you have,not a weakness.

Take care,

>

> --yahoo is acting crazy and won't let me reply to your post, weird, anywho

this meant to be part of that thread---

>

> Hi , thank you for your thoughtful reply - way more than two cents,

lol! You definitely hit the nail on the head about so many aspects of this.

On the one hand it is a small off-hand remark, but in reality it contains worlds

of issues the dynamics of the whole relationship even. Kind of like a

hologram, any little piece contains the whole.

>

> I like your " Uh, huh " strategy and that's actually what I do most of the time

when she spouts this quote to get her to drop it. I've even done, " yes, you've

told me that before " and she'll be slightly taken aback that I've said she's

repeating herself. I'd put it down to old age but she's repeated herself about

this quote long as I can remember. If you'd add up all the times I've heard

it, it's like a friggin mantra either designed to brainwash me into submission

or deep fear of Jesuits. My other suspicion is that she focuses on it because

she herself felt brainwashed and owned by her mother.

>

> And you point about how *muddled* it all is speaks to me " lord it over our kid

with our muddled denial of our own behavior and our muddled resentment and

muddled passive aggression " It's all muddy. On the rare occasions she or

other FOO have attacked me directly they regret it because I do not hesitate to

fight back an set consequences. Unfortunately they are masters of muddled

subtle stuff and I sink in the quicksand all too often.

>

> You asked what I *want* about her saying this quote. I want her to stop

saying it. Period. In fantasy land what I want is her deep sincere grieving

apology for fucking me up as a kid. For leaving me to have to seek healing

through years of therapy, wizards, princes, and magic men. (re Chapman

song " The Tinman " a great KO song) I think it gets to me because it is true -

I have been working my entire life and will be to undo the affects of my

childhood. And because I'm still in relationship with her I am still being

impacted to this day. And yep, that's my choice and responsibility and a whole

other kettle of fish.

>

> Welcome back - good to see you posting again.

>

August 13, 2010

> I have no doubt your nada does have a major issue with having felt

brainwashed and owned by her mother.But she didn't ever really deal with it.I

could go on and on--but won't--about issues my nada had that she never dealt

with and passed on to me in amplified form,amplified by her never having dealt

with her mess and putting it on me to bear.The weird thing,I think,is that they

focus on it whatever it is without ever understanding it.And then *our*

understanding of it becomes how it has mutilated *our* lives--as KOs we inherit

this life altering,life warping awareness.

Hi , as always you have such a deep understanding of these things.

The part you quoted above especially speaks to me because I think there is much

to think about in terms of ancestors. Pain and dysfunction passed down

generation to generation until someone finally steps up and heals it. At least

that's what I hope to do. I made the choice as a child to never have children -

I felt deep in my bones I was not to and I'm glad. I want to end with me

whether I succeed in healing myself or not. Some spiritual practices believe

deep healing can be found in doing work to connect with and send healing to the

ancestral line. I may one day do this, but right now to be honest I struggle

with being angry with my ancestors.

That's so dreadful about what your father put on you, such terrible

responsibility for his lost potentials, his choices - that did not ever belong

to you. Like you said in your post to Annie, anyone who chooses to have a

child (or a pet!) also chooses the sacrifices needed to be a proper parent, to

take the responsibility. I say good on you for confronting him directly with

the subtle meaning - that took guts. Existence itself seems to be such a

fundamental question. For you it seems you got the message that you should not

exist, for me it was the message that I did not exist just smothered and

enmeshed out of separate existence. To feel a pressure to *not* exist though I

can imagine being terrifying - for that to come from parents beyond description.

I'm so glad for you that your healing path is working for you - you deserve all

that and more.

About flower essences, it sounds like you are happy with the direction you are

already going but just know you can always use them symptomatically on an as

needed basis. It doesn't have to be a formal healing program. That reminds,

maybe it's time for me to mix up a new bottle!

Take care also,

August 13, 2010