Re: new here (was a funny thing happened)

September 7, 2010

Good for you Lynette! :-)

I am new to this group and really enjoyed your post.

I apologize because this will be really long... :-(

I just started to come out of the FOG (I didn't even know I was in one)

recently and I'm 38. It's been a pretty intense journey in many ways, but it

is such a huge *relief* to have a label for the illness. To even think of

it as an illness. My mom hasn't been technically diagnosed, she is very

against therapy and has always talked about others who might have needed it

or gotten it as though it was a shameful thing, a weakness or scary

situation. She displays 8 of the 9 traits -- and the suicidal or

cutting/harming

thing I've kind of explained away a bit as well with her (supposed to be)

secret cosmetic surgeries. She also displays many traits of being bipolar

and some of narcissism as well. It's kind of confusing when they are all

working together... and I have no idea what that leaves for treatment options

for her should she ever choose to go that route. (unlikely?)

She is what I think would be considered a highly functioning BP. She

wasn't physically abusive towards me, but after reading Stop Walking on

Eggshells I started thinking back and I believe the outbursts, verbal abuse and

maybe some physical abuse was geared more towards her many boyfriends over

the years. She projects... boyfriends were almost all labeled as bipolar, or

" scary " . She has become a master manipulator so that the entire family

and any friends she hasn't burned through take care of her. They hold her

hand, sympathize, support, accept and enable whatever she throws out there.

Things are always horrible, stressful, (insert negative word of choice)

even though in reality she has a pretty damn good life. People are always

either angels or devils, and of course the former becomes the latter very

easily. My therapist was the one that first brought up the BPD possibility,

and he pointed out that I've always played the enabling

caretaker/rescuer/mother role ... and that although she's obviously an adult (in

her 60s) she is

a little girl. I'm an only child. I think I have a really healthy

outlook on life, relationships, etc., despite my mom's influence growing up. I

am non-confrontational, but I am really working on that. I have a wonderful

relationship with my husband, no kids, lots of animals, good friends, a

very happy and (too) full life.

My current problem is that my coming out of the fog has coincided with yet

another rescue attempt. She was evicted from her apartment because her

boyfriend didn't pay his share of the rent. It was all drama and trauma

after that, and then he got a job in another state and " left her " . The man

that was recently vilified up one end and down the other, suddenly became her

true love.

She had not looked anywhere else to live (even though she has the $ to stay

where she is) because there's " nothing out there " or " none of the places

allow a pet " , she wasn't sure she was going to stay in this state (she's

been somehow living but not living here for 7 years now, with most of her crap

in my garage and her living with us on and off over the years 2 or 3 times

now), she wanted to visit her sister back east so she could " have a

summer " , etc. My mom has never paid us rent or even tried to cover expenses

(laundry, cable, internet, etc.) any of the times she's lived here. She

complains that we are never home, tells the family that she never sees us, etc.

There's a huge tension in the house when she's here, and while she doesn't

openly criticize like a typical (?) BP, she is passive aggressive about

it... like she PAYS for a small storage unit while continuing to keep the

majority of her stuff in our garage because we " have mice in the garage " .

(used to be that it leaked) And why can't she buy some mouse traps on her own

dime since she's getting everything else for free?? That's just one

small example.

I recently, against my better judgment (we have huge money issues between

us!!! as in, she never gives us *anything* and we pay for *everything*)

borrowed 3k from her for a business purchase. I said I would pay it back

$500/month. It was around then that the whole thing came down with the

eviction and boyfriend leaving drama. My husband and I came up with a plan for

her... knowing she would do nothing until the 11th hour when we came in to

" save " her. We decided she could move in with us with the following

requirements:

1 - she would get " paid " back $500 month towards our debt with her in the

form of rent

2 - this would last for approx 6 months, after which time she needed an

exit plan to move out (this for her own good, to encourage a plan... )

3 - she would go to therapy

The Conversation where this was presented to her was extremely difficult

for me. I just knew she would take it badly -- no matter HOW carefully I

presented it... which I did, confirming repeatedly that this was based SOLELY

on my love and concern for her, and our wishes above all else that she

learn to be happy. As suspected, she got very quiet, emotional and angry. She

accused me of trying to play armchair psychiatrist. Ultimately she hung

up on me. She called my aunt and ranted to her about how horrible I was,

that we just wanted to get out of paying her back, that she could get a

better place for less (BS!!), that I said she was bipolar (I didn't, but I did

imply it) that I was disrespectful to her by acting like her mother (as if

I ever wanted that role?! act like an adult mother and I would not have to

be in this shitty situation!), etc. But notice too that she didn't say

that stuff to me. I guess she's non confrontational with me too...

But ... she was kind of screwed in her reaction. As I said, she really

had nowhere to go and far be it from her to take responsibility and FIND

something or make a plan!! So, enter the 'out' --- black mold poisoning!

Even though none of us have ever seen the mold (well that's because the

boyfriend cleaned it up before we saw it, but somehow it's wreaking havoc on

her

life) it became a really handy explanation for her as to why she behaved

that way. I then had to have Conversation #2, where I had to allow that

maybe this black mold had somehow exacerbated the situation with her, but that

she's been this way for most of her life, not just the last 9 months since

she's been living at that place.

Somehow I was sucked into the hole again and helped her make plans to visit

her family on the east coast for 3 weeks. Ahhh, a lovely vacation when

you have no job, no house, and no plans for what to do with your life. Makes

perfect sense! AND, to make matters worse, she would be moving all of

her crap back to my house. Which my husband and I single handedly did for

her... enabling... UGH! My husband was *pissed*. Enough was enough! And

I was coming out of the FOG during this... literally I felt like as I was

packing up the messes -- because on moving day on my precious day off, she

wasn't effing packed! -- I was getting a more and more clear look into her

psyche, and insight into my whole life with her. My husband got into a

fight with her the evening of moving day -- because he dared to tell her that

the rules of the move-in still applied. She called him a bully repeatedly,

and kicked him out. The irony of that was that she was standing in her

empty apartment that we had just finished moving after all day... and she HAD

to come back to our house that night, but she was kicking him out. He was

the one to drive her to the airport the next day, no less.

I went back to my therapist, I got and read the Eggshells book, joined this

group, etc. during the last week or so that she's been away. I've been

able to talk to her sisters about the current situation over the last

several years but really intensified recently, and they supported me whole

heartedly in the move in rules decision. They said they were done with her

behavior and everything she's gotten away with over the years, and this would

be

a chance for positive change in her life. My one aunt said she felt

motherly towards me and wanted to protect me after experiencing the outburst

after The Conversation. The not that funny joke amongst us to keep strong is

to say The Pen Is Blue ... even when she says it is Red, and even after

we've been letting her say it's red for the last many decades! Because when

she's happy you are just so damn relieved you don't want to rock the boat.

And when she's depressed/pointing fingers/stressed you certainly don't

want to be accused of kicking someone while they're down?!

However, my mom will come back to the state in a couple of weeks, and then

she will be here in this house... even though she says she " isn't moving

in, it's just temporary " ?! But since she's 3,000 miles away and hasn't done

anything but relax out there, it's not like she has found a list of places

to look at when she gets back here. And any time she's moved in before it

was the same story -- 'a few months at most' turns into a year. And she

has not expressed any desire to get therapy and in fact is hostile towards

the idea. So now it will need to be our demands against hers... and since I

allowed her to move in for all practical purposes, I feel I have less

ground to stand on as far as ultimatums.

My therapist has asked to meet with my husband and I before we see her

again so that we're armed with insight and techniques so that we don't implode

over this whole thing... either backing down in any way on our boundaries,

or turning against each other over the stress of it all. He doesn't

seem particularly hopeful that she'll get help. He did say he believed that

she could live a normal happy life though... but he rightfully says I am the

only thing I have control over.

I guess, after all that, I am just looking for some support or ideas. I

feel so fortunate that I didn't have to deal with abuse the way some of you

did... that's just horrifying! :-( I just have to work on recognizing

and addressing each of my FOG symptoms... that feels like the first step now,

right? Starting to recognize what she does and when, what her patterns

are, etc., has made me feel like I am waking up from the FOG and I keep

feeling like " How the HELL didn't I see it this way before?! " I have to say

again what a relief it is, there's a calm confidence or comfort that comes

with the realizations. Does anyone else here have this type of more subtle

manipulating situation with a " nada " ? Is that what the " waif " refers to??

Thanks for listening!!

Sossity

September 8, 2010

Hi, Sossity (is that name from the Jethro Tull song?)

Welcome to the group - what you're writing sounds very familiar. I've done the

whole move-in/move-out, complain non-stop, then blame everything on me and my

husband (who were paying all the bills) secenario with my Nada.

So, short answer, in the form of an old joke:

Guy walks into the doctor's office with a board in his hand. Says, " Doc, every

time I do this " (hits himself in the head with the board) - " it really, really

hurts. "

Doctor says, " Well - stop doing that. "

That's it, bottom line. Stop doing that. Take the $500 monthly

payment/rent/savings, and rent a large-enough storage unit, or better yet, one

of those Pods that can be packed then put on a big truck. Take one more

Saturday and move all her junk out of your garage. Leave only the personal

clothing and stuff she has to have to sleep in your guest room, short-term.

Then call a realtor who handles rental houses, or an apartment-finder service.

When Mom gets back, hand her the realtor's card and tell her she has an

appointment to go look at apartments she can afford. She has two months. You

will subsidize her moving expense until you have spent the $3,000 you owe her.

Then she's on her own.

You're lucky that her sisters are already in the know and have " logged off " -

better than having to fight them and have them put a major guilt trip on you.

If she was a sweet, sane old lady, this would all seem mean. But if she's a

full-scale Nada, you have no apologies to make. Get her out of your house, and

don't EVER let her come back.

>

> Good for you Lynette! :-)

> I am new to this group and really enjoyed your post.

>

> I apologize because this will be really long... :-(

>

> I just started to come out of the FOG (I didn't even know I was in one)

> recently and I'm 38. It's been a pretty intense journey in many ways, but it

> is such a huge *relief* to have a label for the illness. To even think of

> it as an illness. My mom hasn't been technically diagnosed, she is very

> against therapy and has always talked about others who might have needed it

> or gotten it as though it was a shameful thing, a weakness or scary

> situation. She displays 8 of the 9 traits -- and the suicidal or

cutting/harming

> thing I've kind of explained away a bit as well with her (supposed to be)

> secret cosmetic surgeries. She also displays many traits of being bipolar

> and some of narcissism as well. It's kind of confusing when they are all

> working together... and I have no idea what that leaves for treatment options

> for her should she ever choose to go that route. (unlikely?)

>

> She is what I think would be considered a highly functioning BP. She

> wasn't physically abusive towards me, but after reading Stop Walking on

> Eggshells I started thinking back and I believe the outbursts, verbal abuse

and

> maybe some physical abuse was geared more towards her many boyfriends over

> the years. She projects... boyfriends were almost all labeled as bipolar, or

> " scary " . She has become a master manipulator so that the entire family

> and any friends she hasn't burned through take care of her. They hold her

> hand, sympathize, support, accept and enable whatever she throws out there.

> Things are always horrible, stressful, (insert negative word of choice)

> even though in reality she has a pretty damn good life. People are always

> either angels or devils, and of course the former becomes the latter very

> easily. My therapist was the one that first brought up the BPD possibility,

> and he pointed out that I've always played the enabling

> caretaker/rescuer/mother role ... and that although she's obviously an adult

(in her 60s) she is

> a little girl. I'm an only child. I think I have a really healthy

> outlook on life, relationships, etc., despite my mom's influence growing up.

I

> am non-confrontational, but I am really working on that. I have a wonderful

> relationship with my husband, no kids, lots of animals, good friends, a

> very happy and (too) full life.

>

> My current problem is that my coming out of the fog has coincided with yet

> another rescue attempt. She was evicted from her apartment because her

> boyfriend didn't pay his share of the rent. It was all drama and trauma

> after that, and then he got a job in another state and " left her " . The man

> that was recently vilified up one end and down the other, suddenly became her

> true love.

>

> She had not looked anywhere else to live (even though she has the $ to stay

> where she is) because there's " nothing out there " or " none of the places

> allow a pet " , she wasn't sure she was going to stay in this state (she's

> been somehow living but not living here for 7 years now, with most of her

crap

> in my garage and her living with us on and off over the years 2 or 3 times

> now), she wanted to visit her sister back east so she could " have a

> summer " , etc. My mom has never paid us rent or even tried to cover expenses

> (laundry, cable, internet, etc.) any of the times she's lived here. She

> complains that we are never home, tells the family that she never sees us,

etc.

> There's a huge tension in the house when she's here, and while she doesn't

> openly criticize like a typical (?) BP, she is passive aggressive about

> it... like she PAYS for a small storage unit while continuing to keep the

> majority of her stuff in our garage because we " have mice in the garage " .

> (used to be that it leaked) And why can't she buy some mouse traps on her

own

> dime since she's getting everything else for free?? That's just one

> small example.

>

> I recently, against my better judgment (we have huge money issues between

> us!!! as in, she never gives us *anything* and we pay for *everything*)

> borrowed 3k from her for a business purchase. I said I would pay it back

> $500/month. It was around then that the whole thing came down with the

> eviction and boyfriend leaving drama. My husband and I came up with a plan

for

> her... knowing she would do nothing until the 11th hour when we came in to

> " save " her. We decided she could move in with us with the following

> requirements:

> 1 - she would get " paid " back $500 month towards our debt with her in the

> form of rent

> 2 - this would last for approx 6 months, after which time she needed an

> exit plan to move out (this for her own good, to encourage a plan... )

> 3 - she would go to therapy

>

> The Conversation where this was presented to her was extremely difficult

> for me. I just knew she would take it badly -- no matter HOW carefully I

> presented it... which I did, confirming repeatedly that this was based SOLELY

> on my love and concern for her, and our wishes above all else that she

> learn to be happy. As suspected, she got very quiet, emotional and angry.

She

> accused me of trying to play armchair psychiatrist. Ultimately she hung

> up on me. She called my aunt and ranted to her about how horrible I was,

> that we just wanted to get out of paying her back, that she could get a

> better place for less (BS!!), that I said she was bipolar (I didn't, but I

did

> imply it) that I was disrespectful to her by acting like her mother (as if

> I ever wanted that role?! act like an adult mother and I would not have to

> be in this shitty situation!), etc. But notice too that she didn't say

> that stuff to me. I guess she's non confrontational with me too...

>

> But ... she was kind of screwed in her reaction. As I said, she really

> had nowhere to go and far be it from her to take responsibility and FIND

> something or make a plan!! So, enter the 'out' --- black mold poisoning!

> Even though none of us have ever seen the mold (well that's because the

> boyfriend cleaned it up before we saw it, but somehow it's wreaking havoc on

her

> life) it became a really handy explanation for her as to why she behaved

> that way. I then had to have Conversation #2, where I had to allow that

> maybe this black mold had somehow exacerbated the situation with her, but

that

> she's been this way for most of her life, not just the last 9 months since

> she's been living at that place.

>

> Somehow I was sucked into the hole again and helped her make plans to visit

> her family on the east coast for 3 weeks. Ahhh, a lovely vacation when

> you have no job, no house, and no plans for what to do with your life. Makes

> perfect sense! AND, to make matters worse, she would be moving all of

> her crap back to my house. Which my husband and I single handedly did for

> her... enabling... UGH! My husband was *pissed*. Enough was enough! And

> I was coming out of the FOG during this... literally I felt like as I was

> packing up the messes -- because on moving day on my precious day off, she

> wasn't effing packed! -- I was getting a more and more clear look into her

> psyche, and insight into my whole life with her. My husband got into a

> fight with her the evening of moving day -- because he dared to tell her that

> the rules of the move-in still applied. She called him a bully repeatedly,

> and kicked him out. The irony of that was that she was standing in her

> empty apartment that we had just finished moving after all day... and she HAD

> to come back to our house that night, but she was kicking him out. He was

> the one to drive her to the airport the next day, no less.

>

> I went back to my therapist, I got and read the Eggshells book, joined this

> group, etc. during the last week or so that she's been away. I've been

> able to talk to her sisters about the current situation over the last

> several years but really intensified recently, and they supported me whole

> heartedly in the move in rules decision. They said they were done with her

> behavior and everything she's gotten away with over the years, and this would

be

> a chance for positive change in her life. My one aunt said she felt

> motherly towards me and wanted to protect me after experiencing the outburst

> after The Conversation. The not that funny joke amongst us to keep strong is

> to say The Pen Is Blue ... even when she says it is Red, and even after

> we've been letting her say it's red for the last many decades! Because when

> she's happy you are just so damn relieved you don't want to rock the boat.

> And when she's depressed/pointing fingers/stressed you certainly don't

> want to be accused of kicking someone while they're down?!

>

> However, my mom will come back to the state in a couple of weeks, and then

> she will be here in this house... even though she says she " isn't moving

> in, it's just temporary " ?! But since she's 3,000 miles away and hasn't done

> anything but relax out there, it's not like she has found a list of places

> to look at when she gets back here. And any time she's moved in before it

> was the same story -- 'a few months at most' turns into a year. And she

> has not expressed any desire to get therapy and in fact is hostile towards

> the idea. So now it will need to be our demands against hers... and since I

> allowed her to move in for all practical purposes, I feel I have less

> ground to stand on as far as ultimatums.

>

> My therapist has asked to meet with my husband and I before we see her

> again so that we're armed with insight and techniques so that we don't implode

> over this whole thing... either backing down in any way on our boundaries,

> or turning against each other over the stress of it all. He doesn't

> seem particularly hopeful that she'll get help. He did say he believed that

> she could live a normal happy life though... but he rightfully says I am the

> only thing I have control over.

>

> I guess, after all that, I am just looking for some support or ideas. I

> feel so fortunate that I didn't have to deal with abuse the way some of you

> did... that's just horrifying! :-( I just have to work on recognizing

> and addressing each of my FOG symptoms... that feels like the first step now,

> right? Starting to recognize what she does and when, what her patterns

> are, etc., has made me feel like I am waking up from the FOG and I keep

> feeling like " How the HELL didn't I see it this way before?! " I have to say

> again what a relief it is, there's a calm confidence or comfort that comes

> with the realizations. Does anyone else here have this type of more subtle

> manipulating situation with a " nada " ? Is that what the " waif " refers to??

>

> Thanks for listening!!

> Sossity

>

September 8, 2010