Guest guest Posted August 16, 2010 Report Share Posted August 16, 2010 *It was NO because SHE SAID SO. It was NO because I WAS NAGGING HER. It was NO because SHE DIDN'T WANT TO BE BOTHERED.* This was my home growing up. I always say that my nada was a " do as I say not as I do " parent. She was famous for being " too sick " to do for her kids. PS. So many of these posts all sound like the same parent. Is there a BPD manual they follow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2010 Report Share Posted August 16, 2010 That is a really great illustration of good parenting! Kudos to you for being both a compassionate and wise mom to your daughter and considering that her feelings are important, too. And wow does your emotionally healthy, empathetic parenting contrast starkly with the weird, scary, inconsistent parenting we ourselves endured. As a child and teen I had to choose my requests very carefully: pick my battles, as it were. And I could never be sure if a request would get me screamed at or not. A request would be granted depending on nada's mood at the moment; it was rarely if ever about my needs or feelings. If nada was feeling good, upbeat about herself and generous, why, I could ask to have a freakin' teen party and it would be done up very nicely. If nada was feeling irritable, negative, and sour, then a request for some necessary school supplies would get me screamed at for being lazy, selfish, stupid and/or wasteful. I am willing to believe that nada's bpd " frequent, rapid mood swings " were a component of her tendency to over-react to everyday minor problems, and her tendency to be oddly calm and cool during real crises of an emergency nature. My theory is that my nada had " no emotional skin " , so that she'd perceive little everyday problems (spilled juice) as HUGE and get triggered into a screaming rage... but real, genuine emergency situations overwhelmed her to the point that she'd dissociate. Her emotional circuits would just fry or short out and she'd be operating only from the logical, rational portion of her brain and actually do what was needed, most of the time. In old age, however, a real or perceived emergency tends to make her collapse into a hysterical, wailing puddle. So, the only really consistent thing I can count on with my nada is for her to be inconsistent. She's more of a Waif now in old age, whereas during my growing up years and young adulthood she was mostly a Queen/Witch. -Annie > > > I always liked redirecting my kids more than saying " no " all the time. Even if the end result is " no, " I've learned to answer it in other ways. Like, " Can Maddy spend the night? " came from my daughter this weekend. And lord have mercy, if we have one free weekend with no extra kids I think I'll have a party. So I said, " H, you had a friend spend the night last weekend and the weekend before that you spent the night with Maddy, so let's have a family weekend. " See, I said no, but didn't have to use the words. And we spent the weekend painting her room (bought a new car too...fun!). > > One thing I think that sets us apart from our BPD parents is that we're not lazy. It's so easy to just say " no " or as my mother would say, " stop nagging the hell out of me, " but it actually takes communicating with your kids and being interested in them and caring how they feel to be a good parent, in my opinion. My mother was just a freaking lazy parent. It was NO because SHE SAID SO. It was NO because I WAS NAGGING HER. It was NO because SHE DIDN'T WANT TO BE BOTHERED. > > And yep...I baby proofed everything too. My mother used to laugh and tell the story about how I'd crawl around sticking my tongue in the light sockets and " that must be what's wrong with you. " > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2010 Report Share Posted August 16, 2010 That is a really great illustration of good parenting! Kudos to you for being both a compassionate and wise mom to your daughter and considering that her feelings are important, too. And wow does your emotionally healthy, empathetic parenting contrast starkly with the weird, scary, inconsistent parenting we ourselves endured. As a child and teen I had to choose my requests very carefully: pick my battles, as it were. And I could never be sure if a request would get me screamed at or not. A request would be granted depending on nada's mood at the moment; it was rarely if ever about my needs or feelings. If nada was feeling good, upbeat about herself and generous, why, I could ask to have a freakin' teen party and it would be done up very nicely. If nada was feeling irritable, negative, and sour, then a request for some necessary school supplies would get me screamed at for being lazy, selfish, stupid and/or wasteful. I am willing to believe that nada's bpd " frequent, rapid mood swings " were a component of her tendency to over-react to everyday minor problems, and her tendency to be oddly calm and cool during real crises of an emergency nature. My theory is that my nada had " no emotional skin " , so that she'd perceive little everyday problems (spilled juice) as HUGE and get triggered into a screaming rage... but real, genuine emergency situations overwhelmed her to the point that she'd dissociate. Her emotional circuits would just fry or short out and she'd be operating only from the logical, rational portion of her brain and actually do what was needed, most of the time. In old age, however, a real or perceived emergency tends to make her collapse into a hysterical, wailing puddle. So, the only really consistent thing I can count on with my nada is for her to be inconsistent. She's more of a Waif now in old age, whereas during my growing up years and young adulthood she was mostly a Queen/Witch. -Annie > > > I always liked redirecting my kids more than saying " no " all the time. Even if the end result is " no, " I've learned to answer it in other ways. Like, " Can Maddy spend the night? " came from my daughter this weekend. And lord have mercy, if we have one free weekend with no extra kids I think I'll have a party. So I said, " H, you had a friend spend the night last weekend and the weekend before that you spent the night with Maddy, so let's have a family weekend. " See, I said no, but didn't have to use the words. And we spent the weekend painting her room (bought a new car too...fun!). > > One thing I think that sets us apart from our BPD parents is that we're not lazy. It's so easy to just say " no " or as my mother would say, " stop nagging the hell out of me, " but it actually takes communicating with your kids and being interested in them and caring how they feel to be a good parent, in my opinion. My mother was just a freaking lazy parent. It was NO because SHE SAID SO. It was NO because I WAS NAGGING HER. It was NO because SHE DIDN'T WANT TO BE BOTHERED. > > And yep...I baby proofed everything too. My mother used to laugh and tell the story about how I'd crawl around sticking my tongue in the light sockets and " that must be what's wrong with you. " > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2010 Report Share Posted August 16, 2010 That is a really great illustration of good parenting! Kudos to you for being both a compassionate and wise mom to your daughter and considering that her feelings are important, too. And wow does your emotionally healthy, empathetic parenting contrast starkly with the weird, scary, inconsistent parenting we ourselves endured. As a child and teen I had to choose my requests very carefully: pick my battles, as it were. And I could never be sure if a request would get me screamed at or not. A request would be granted depending on nada's mood at the moment; it was rarely if ever about my needs or feelings. If nada was feeling good, upbeat about herself and generous, why, I could ask to have a freakin' teen party and it would be done up very nicely. If nada was feeling irritable, negative, and sour, then a request for some necessary school supplies would get me screamed at for being lazy, selfish, stupid and/or wasteful. I am willing to believe that nada's bpd " frequent, rapid mood swings " were a component of her tendency to over-react to everyday minor problems, and her tendency to be oddly calm and cool during real crises of an emergency nature. My theory is that my nada had " no emotional skin " , so that she'd perceive little everyday problems (spilled juice) as HUGE and get triggered into a screaming rage... but real, genuine emergency situations overwhelmed her to the point that she'd dissociate. Her emotional circuits would just fry or short out and she'd be operating only from the logical, rational portion of her brain and actually do what was needed, most of the time. In old age, however, a real or perceived emergency tends to make her collapse into a hysterical, wailing puddle. So, the only really consistent thing I can count on with my nada is for her to be inconsistent. She's more of a Waif now in old age, whereas during my growing up years and young adulthood she was mostly a Queen/Witch. -Annie > > > I always liked redirecting my kids more than saying " no " all the time. Even if the end result is " no, " I've learned to answer it in other ways. Like, " Can Maddy spend the night? " came from my daughter this weekend. And lord have mercy, if we have one free weekend with no extra kids I think I'll have a party. So I said, " H, you had a friend spend the night last weekend and the weekend before that you spent the night with Maddy, so let's have a family weekend. " See, I said no, but didn't have to use the words. And we spent the weekend painting her room (bought a new car too...fun!). > > One thing I think that sets us apart from our BPD parents is that we're not lazy. It's so easy to just say " no " or as my mother would say, " stop nagging the hell out of me, " but it actually takes communicating with your kids and being interested in them and caring how they feel to be a good parent, in my opinion. My mother was just a freaking lazy parent. It was NO because SHE SAID SO. It was NO because I WAS NAGGING HER. It was NO because SHE DIDN'T WANT TO BE BOTHERED. > > And yep...I baby proofed everything too. My mother used to laugh and tell the story about how I'd crawl around sticking my tongue in the light sockets and " that must be what's wrong with you. " > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2010 Report Share Posted August 16, 2010 Yep. I remember my friend lived down the street. My mother was always talking about how " flighty " and dumb 's mother was. It was confusing because when I went to 's house, her mother (who I adored and thought looked like Wonder Woman LOL) would bake with us, make us snacks, play games, watch the silly plays we performed, laugh with us, take us to Mc's. My mother never did anything except yell for us to get out of her house and go play outside. It was definitely a " do as I say not as I do " behavior. Re: Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh *It was NO because SHE SAID SO. It was NO because I WAS NAGGING HER. It was NO because SHE DIDN'T WANT TO BE BOTHERED.* This was my home growing up. I always say that my nada was a " do as I say not as I do " parent. She was famous for being " too sick " to do for her kids. PS. So many of these posts all sound like the same parent. Is there a BPD manual they follow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2010 Report Share Posted August 16, 2010 In a way, there is a " manual " : the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual that psychiatrists use to classify the various kinds of mental illnesses. There are 9 traits or behaviors that are currently used to describe borderline pd, but an individual only needs to display 5 of them in order for a psychiatrist to be able to diagnose bpd. That's part of why we do tend to see variation in how our bpd parents behave. I'm not good at math, but the possible number of variations on 5 out of 9 criteria seems like it would be very large! The main differences in bpd behavior that catch my attention are twofold. One is that some individuals with bpd mainly " act in " : these are the suicidal ones, the ones who cut and harm themselves, as opposed to the individuals with bpd who " act out " : these are the volatile ones who rage, scream and hit, directing their internal negativity and misery outward. The other main difference is that some people with bpd are " low functioning " , meaning they have little to no control over their bpd behaviors. Low-functioning bpds tend to get into trouble with the law, their neighbors, their families, and have difficulty holding down a job. At the other end, there are those with bpd who are " high-functioning " . These individuals have more control of their bpd thoughts, feelings and behaviors. They can function well enough to hold down a job and seem to be normal to outsiders. Somehow they can save up their negativity, anger, and frustration and only unleash it where its safe for them to do so, in privacy. Its only their family who observe or experience the bpd's dysfunction. My nada mostly acts out, and is very high-functioning. She was both emotionally and physically abusive to Sister and me, but only in the privacy of our home. To the outside world, she was " the perfect mom. " Sister and I both grew up terrified of her, very dominated and repressed, and traumatized. We both have symptoms of PTSD, I have traits of avoidant pd, and neither of us has ever had a long-term adult relationship, although my Sister did become pregnant and she raised her son as a single mom. (And did a great job, too, I might add.) Then, add on top of that, that its not uncommon for a person with bpd to have more than one mental illness at the same time. I'm pretty sure that my nada has both borderline pd and narcissistic pd as a co-morbidity. I think my nada has always had traits of obsessive-compulsive personality disorder too, which explains how hyper-upset and triggered she's always been about messiness, disorder, and her need to be totally in control, her perfectionism, her hyper-criticalness, etc. In any case, yes, it does mean a lot to me and its very validating to read here and at other groups how similarly our bpd parents can behave, sometimes. It makes it clear that bpd is a real mental disorder and that I didn't cause my nada to be this way. -Annie > > *It was NO because SHE SAID SO. It was NO because I WAS NAGGING HER. It was > NO because SHE DIDN'T WANT TO BE BOTHERED.* > > This was my home growing up. I always say that my nada was a " do as I say > not as I do " parent. She was famous for being " too sick " to do for her > kids. > > > > PS. So many of these posts all sound like the same parent. Is there a BPD > manual they follow? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2010 Report Share Posted August 16, 2010 Oh, definitely true, Annie. My mother might freak over accidentally breaking something or spilling something, but when I fell and broke my arm, she put on " mother face " as if she was all concerned and took me to the doctor playing the great and grand mommy. Sickening. I try super hard to be consistent. Re: Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh That is a really great illustration of good parenting! Kudos to you for being both a compassionate and wise mom to your daughter and considering that her feelings are important, too. And wow does your emotionally healthy, empathetic parenting contrast starkly with the weird, scary, inconsistent parenting we ourselves endured. As a child and teen I had to choose my requests very carefully: pick my battles, as it were. And I could never be sure if a request would get me screamed at or not. A request would be granted depending on nada's mood at the moment; it was rarely if ever about my needs or feelings. If nada was feeling good, upbeat about herself and generous, why, I could ask to have a freakin' teen party and it would be done up very nicely. If nada was feeling irritable, negative, and sour, then a request for some necessary school supplies would get me screamed at for being lazy, selfish, stupid and/or wasteful. I am willing to believe that nada's bpd " frequent, rapid mood swings " were a component of her tendency to over-react to everyday minor problems, and her tendency to be oddly calm and cool during real crises of an emergency nature. My theory is that my nada had " no emotional skin " , so that she'd perceive little everyday problems (spilled juice) as HUGE and get triggered into a screaming rage... but real, genuine emergency situations overwhelmed her to the point that she'd dissociate. Her emotional circuits would just fry or short out and she'd be operating only from the logical, rational portion of her brain and actually do what was needed, most of the time. In old age, however, a real or perceived emergency tends to make her collapse into a hysterical, wailing puddle. So, the only really consistent thing I can count on with my nada is for her to be inconsistent. She's more of a Waif now in old age, whereas during my growing up years and young adulthood she was mostly a Queen/Witch. -Annie > > > I always liked redirecting my kids more than saying " no " all the time. Even if the end result is " no, " I've learned to answer it in other ways. Like, " Can Maddy spend the night? " came from my daughter this weekend. And lord have mercy, if we have one free weekend with no extra kids I think I'll have a party. So I said, " H, you had a friend spend the night last weekend and the weekend before that you spent the night with Maddy, so let's have a family weekend. " See, I said no, but didn't have to use the words. And we spent the weekend painting her room (bought a new car too...fun!). > > One thing I think that sets us apart from our BPD parents is that we're not lazy. It's so easy to just say " no " or as my mother would say, " stop nagging the hell out of me, " but it actually takes communicating with your kids and being interested in them and caring how they feel to be a good parent, in my opinion. My mother was just a freaking lazy parent. It was NO because SHE SAID SO. It was NO because I WAS NAGGING HER. It was NO because SHE DIDN'T WANT TO BE BOTHERED. > > And yep...I baby proofed everything too. My mother used to laugh and tell the story about how I'd crawl around sticking my tongue in the light sockets and " that must be what's wrong with you. " > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2010 Report Share Posted August 16, 2010 Oh, definitely true, Annie. My mother might freak over accidentally breaking something or spilling something, but when I fell and broke my arm, she put on " mother face " as if she was all concerned and took me to the doctor playing the great and grand mommy. Sickening. I try super hard to be consistent. Re: Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh That is a really great illustration of good parenting! Kudos to you for being both a compassionate and wise mom to your daughter and considering that her feelings are important, too. And wow does your emotionally healthy, empathetic parenting contrast starkly with the weird, scary, inconsistent parenting we ourselves endured. As a child and teen I had to choose my requests very carefully: pick my battles, as it were. And I could never be sure if a request would get me screamed at or not. A request would be granted depending on nada's mood at the moment; it was rarely if ever about my needs or feelings. If nada was feeling good, upbeat about herself and generous, why, I could ask to have a freakin' teen party and it would be done up very nicely. If nada was feeling irritable, negative, and sour, then a request for some necessary school supplies would get me screamed at for being lazy, selfish, stupid and/or wasteful. I am willing to believe that nada's bpd " frequent, rapid mood swings " were a component of her tendency to over-react to everyday minor problems, and her tendency to be oddly calm and cool during real crises of an emergency nature. My theory is that my nada had " no emotional skin " , so that she'd perceive little everyday problems (spilled juice) as HUGE and get triggered into a screaming rage... but real, genuine emergency situations overwhelmed her to the point that she'd dissociate. Her emotional circuits would just fry or short out and she'd be operating only from the logical, rational portion of her brain and actually do what was needed, most of the time. In old age, however, a real or perceived emergency tends to make her collapse into a hysterical, wailing puddle. So, the only really consistent thing I can count on with my nada is for her to be inconsistent. She's more of a Waif now in old age, whereas during my growing up years and young adulthood she was mostly a Queen/Witch. -Annie > > > I always liked redirecting my kids more than saying " no " all the time. Even if the end result is " no, " I've learned to answer it in other ways. Like, " Can Maddy spend the night? " came from my daughter this weekend. And lord have mercy, if we have one free weekend with no extra kids I think I'll have a party. So I said, " H, you had a friend spend the night last weekend and the weekend before that you spent the night with Maddy, so let's have a family weekend. " See, I said no, but didn't have to use the words. And we spent the weekend painting her room (bought a new car too...fun!). > > One thing I think that sets us apart from our BPD parents is that we're not lazy. It's so easy to just say " no " or as my mother would say, " stop nagging the hell out of me, " but it actually takes communicating with your kids and being interested in them and caring how they feel to be a good parent, in my opinion. My mother was just a freaking lazy parent. It was NO because SHE SAID SO. It was NO because I WAS NAGGING HER. It was NO because SHE DIDN'T WANT TO BE BOTHERED. > > And yep...I baby proofed everything too. My mother used to laugh and tell the story about how I'd crawl around sticking my tongue in the light sockets and " that must be what's wrong with you. " > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2010 Report Share Posted August 16, 2010 I agree; I think " Witch " / " Queen " only works on us as long as we feel physically afraid of our nadas (its easy to intimidate a child when you're much larger and willing to smack the child around) or if nada retains some kind of powerful financial control over us as adult children. Once we become sufficiently grown up, independent and self-supporting, if nada can't physically threaten or terrify us anymore and if she can't wield the power of money over us, nada switches instead to " Waif " mode and tries to manipulate and control us using guilt to trigger pity and compassion in us. Its all about control, about nada getting or maintaining control, seemingly, any way she can. -Annie > > I remember visiting friends' houses as a child, and being delightfully shocked that their parents actually played with their children. My nada sat for endless hours, all of her spare time in fact, reading books upon books in the kitchen whilst chain smoking. There was no engagement with her children other than to hit, scream, or otherwise abuse in hysterics. > > My nada was prone to endless 'witch' behaviour but now as she ages she seems to be more 'waif' maybe because she can't get away with the abusive witch anymore. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2010 Report Share Posted August 16, 2010 I agree; I think " Witch " / " Queen " only works on us as long as we feel physically afraid of our nadas (its easy to intimidate a child when you're much larger and willing to smack the child around) or if nada retains some kind of powerful financial control over us as adult children. Once we become sufficiently grown up, independent and self-supporting, if nada can't physically threaten or terrify us anymore and if she can't wield the power of money over us, nada switches instead to " Waif " mode and tries to manipulate and control us using guilt to trigger pity and compassion in us. Its all about control, about nada getting or maintaining control, seemingly, any way she can. -Annie > > I remember visiting friends' houses as a child, and being delightfully shocked that their parents actually played with their children. My nada sat for endless hours, all of her spare time in fact, reading books upon books in the kitchen whilst chain smoking. There was no engagement with her children other than to hit, scream, or otherwise abuse in hysterics. > > My nada was prone to endless 'witch' behaviour but now as she ages she seems to be more 'waif' maybe because she can't get away with the abusive witch anymore. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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