Guest guest Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 ,To confuse you. :-)Wheat is high oxalate.That's all.Toni I didn't know if you saw my post about 'mucus' -- here is a little excerpt from a web page I found (ascertaining the same type things I had read) ... " Not all mucus is bad. Healthy mucus is a clear, slippery, lubricating secretion, used to protect mucus membranes along the digestive, respiratory, urinary and reproductive tracts. Unhealthy mucus is cloudy, thick, and sticky. Mucus is secreted to stop irritants, pollutants, or carcinogenic compounds, created by putrefying, undigested food residues. It's like a blanket of protection. Certain foods such as milk and bread cause an increase of mucus secretions. These foods have large protein molecules (casein and gluten) which are difficult to digest and are more prone to putrefaction, and may be toxic or an irritant to the body. For many, bread and milk cause sinus congestion. " here is the full version: (it's wicked informative!) http://www.freedomyou.com/nutrition_book/mucus.htm essentially, removing wheat/milk removes the 'mucus' factor, and allows vitamins to be taken up by the villi in the intestines. The Uptake of B12 is in the ileum, when it's covered with 'mucus' -- the body can't get it and therefore, the body doesn't get it. Hence the removal of foods containing 'milk and wheat' -- will decrease the 'mucus factor' and therefore, allow the body to perform these functions. When you take 'digestive' enzymes, it might help break it down, but it doesn't stop the mucus from being created. (Because it's the proteins that signal the body to create the mucus in the first place)...(I hope this makes sense.) A lot of times zinc is required to maintain healthy levels of HCL in the stomach (also used to help break down milk and wheat) and when it's low (HCL) the body doesn't break it down well, and then it's on to the intestines. (where you guessed it...it still sticky and gluey) If you have 'inflammation' chances are you have a deficiency in a vitamins. If you have 'allergies' or 'intolerance' to foods, chances are you have a deficiency in vitamins/minerals, etc. When you remove the barriers, the vitamins/minerals can be removed from foods in the intestines, and the uptake will happen. I hope this helps. laura Let me know if you need more. (or if I didn't get at what you were looking for...IYKWIM?) Yesterday we gave Jimmy a 'wheat' cracker at a party he went to. He seemed fine. That night during his bath, we both noticed his " eczema " spot, in full force (bright red!) -- we have not seen it since last time he accidentally got a wheat cracker. (a couple of wheat crackers, and not many). He didn't have any 'issues' with it, but the eczema spot tells me that, his body doesn't want it. It was an easy decision, no wheat, not for a long time. We also tested grapes. No melt downs...yet. > > recently posted about wheat inhibiting the uptake of b12. Is that in > every circumstance or only when there is a problem with the breakdown/digestion > of wheat? > > -Tammy > -- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Holy website! and great response. As always, thank you, ma'am..... Another question, I've been wondering why you're reading a book on cancer and nutrition. Is everything cool? Or are you just reading to further your knowledge. You can tell me to mind my business....I will not be offended : ) -Tammyu To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Sun, January 30, 2011 2:02:32 PMSubject: Re: Wheat and b-12 I didn't know if you saw my post about 'mucus' -- here is a little excerpt from a web page I found (ascertaining the same type things I had read) ..."Not all mucus is bad. Healthy mucus is a clear, slippery, lubricating secretion, used to protect mucus membranes along the digestive, respiratory, urinary and reproductive tracts. Unhealthy mucus is cloudy, thick, and sticky. Mucus is secreted to stop irritants, pollutants, or carcinogenic compounds, created by putrefying, undigested food residues. It's like a blanket of protection. Certain foods such as milk and bread cause an increase of mucus secretions. These foods have large protein molecules (casein and gluten) which are difficult to digest and are more prone to putrefaction, and may be toxic or an irritant to the body. For many, bread and milk cause sinus congestion."here is the full version: (it's wicked informative!) http://www.freedomyou.com/nutrition_book/mucus.htmessentially, removing wheat/milk removes the 'mucus' factor, and allows vitamins to be taken up by the villi in the intestines. The Uptake of B12 is in the ileum, when it's covered with 'mucus' -- the body can't get it and therefore, the body doesn't get it. Hence the removal of foods containing 'milk and wheat' -- will decrease the 'mucus factor' and therefore, allow the body to perform these functions. When you take 'digestive' enzymes, it might help break it down, but it doesn't stop the mucus from being created. (Because it's the proteins that signal the body to create the mucus in the first place)...(I hope this makes sense.) A lot of times zinc is required to maintain healthy levels of HCL in the stomach (also used to help break down milk and wheat) and when it's low (HCL) the body doesn't break it down well, and then it's on to the intestines. (where you guessed it...it still sticky and gluey)If you have 'inflammation' chances are you have a deficiency in a vitamins. If you have 'allergies' or 'intolerance' to foods, chances are you have a deficiency in vitamins/minerals, etc. When you remove the barriers, the vitamins/minerals can be removed from foods in the intestines, and the uptake will happen. I hope this helps. laura Let me know if you need more. (or if I didn't get at what you were looking for...IYKWIM?)Yesterday we gave Jimmy a 'wheat' cracker at a party he went to. He seemed fine. That night during his bath, we both noticed his "eczema" spot, in full force (bright red!) -- we have not seen it since last time he accidentally got a wheat cracker. (a couple of wheat crackers, and not many). He didn't have any 'issues' with it, but the eczema spot tells me that, his body doesn't want it. It was an easy decision, no wheat, not for a long time. We also tested grapes. No melt downs...yet. >> recently posted about wheat inhibiting the uptake of b12. Is that in > every circumstance or only when there is a problem with the breakdown/digestion > of wheat?> > -Tammy> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 you know, I l'ed mao too when I read it... So -- if he eats hi ox, he gets a rash on his face, not on his leg. When he eats wheat he gets a rash on a his face PLUS the fiery red eczema spot on the top of his right leg. Explain that one to me please....funny as it sounds, that is how I know when he gets a 'wheat infraction' because that spot always shows up. laura > >> > >> recently posted about wheat inhibiting the uptake of b12. Is that in > >> every circumstance or only when there is a problem with the breakdown/digestion > >> > >> of wheat? > >> > >> -Tammy > >> > > > > > > > -- > Toni > > ------ > Mind like a steel trap... > Rusty and illegal in 37 states. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Funny you mention that 'had a hard time with supps during pregnancy' -- I did too. I threw them up as soon as I took them. I sought to find a supp that would allow me to keep it down. (all three pregnancies) -- I ended up with the New Chapter Organic Prenatal Vitamins. It was THE only one I have ever managed to keep down. I stopped trying others as it seemed pointless and a waste of money. I had actually thought Rob might benefit from this vitamin as he too has a hard time with the 'smell' of vitamins and supplements --which is why we do liquids mostly. Alberta's thoughts on the subject make me wonder as Rob doesn't do well on Potatoes either (although they did not show up on his IGg) as I found he tends to be absent minded, or thoughts just don't connect when he eats them. I noticed it one night removed them for 30 days, and then reintroduced them..and got the same result. I believe white potatoes are high oxalate and Rob doesn't do high oxalates well at all. He thrives on a low ox diet. I realized this a while a go, I just didn't make the connection to my son about it. Toni did. I like your 'Vitamin C' thoughts. As I tend to think that way myself, you can't overdose, so what seems to be the harm. When you say 'pocs' -- are talking about like a rash on the cheeks or face? Curious only because Jimmy gets that when he gets hi oxalate foods without his calcium, zinc and mag supplements. Toni actually figured that one out for us, it does wonders for us. -- It also made his ADHD symptoms completely disappear as well. (They were mostly gone, but we saw complete normalcy when we added these separately) Also, Rob did really well with the B12 nasal spray. He is currently doing shots, but even he has said he likes the nasal spray better. I wonder if it just gets to the brain faster? He also does pops, and sublinquals - he says the shot makes the area sore. *but at least he tried it...His serum B12 is crazy low. That was even doing the shots (and I think I was administering them wrong!) and pops and sublinquals. And I agree, the blood serum of vitamins is important to look at, because if the adequate resources aren't available, you're right, they hang out -- without transportation. My Doc said, sometimes they are like teenagers without anything to do on a Friday night and find themselves in front of a convenience store, bored and being useless (or wreaking havoc)...hence the 'bonkers'... makes sense. I keep meaning to get her (McCandeless) book. I did notice that when I started juicing, both Rob and Jimmy seemed to respond to other therapies better/faster. I tended to wonder if the addition of the nutrients was helpful in the 'transport' and utilization. When I started juicing 2 times a day, I noticed Jimmy got just 'better.' -- He seemed on top of his game daily. I also wonder if the rotovirus (you drink it) caused the destruction of his intestinal villi -- because Maddie never got that vaccine. She also can eat and seems to absorb the nutrition, Jimmy seems to struggle in that area still. Maddie also eats Ezekiel bread and breaks it down fine without issues (although there is gluten in there that isn't sprouted) -- Jimmy cannot tolerate it, nor can he break it down. He does eat citrus..so I wonder if that helps as well. (You've got me thinking again...) I did not know/realize/remember? that B vitamins help with dopamine and seratonin...this actually makes great sense and applicable in our case. Rob seemed to suffer from depression when we got his vitamins compounded, this seemed to disappear. I had added B6 back to Jimmy's mix here about 4 months ago. (I had stopped supplementing because he was waking up a lot at night with nightmares) -- This also seemed to help him tremendously. A reminder to me that just because it didn't work 12 months ago, doesn't mean I shouldn't revisit it...That is why I like this board, they are constantly reminding me that this 'disorder' is dynamic, not static. Changing course is part of the daily decisions we face and the challenge to 'stay the course' or 'abandon ship' -- and you don't know unless you are there to understand the physical and mental signs of which course to take. OH, and on a last note... Another thing -- when we gave him a few wheat crackers -- I had mentioned that he didn't get any symptoms other than the eczema spot, I was wrong. He has wet the bed two nights in a row, and this morning he is craving chocolate and sweets. In the morning he tends to want things that tend to be dense with nutrition (veg drink, eggs, toast, bacon/ham, blueberries, water) and as the day goes on, he wants 'the energy.' and will ask for pineapple juice or his juicer drink that has a lot of fruits in it, noodles, rice, sandwiches, his B12 pop, etc. -- and at dinner he just likes 'broccoli' with salt and olive oil or green beans, squash, or a little chicken and lots of veggies. His night time meal tends to be small...as his huge meals are at the start of his day. (Cheryl had written about having dinner for breakfast or not tending to worry about what was 'expected' for each meal--that's what she should blog about!...) My Mom used to have this 'sign' on her wall next to her mirror that said " no enemy would dare bomb this place and end this confusion. " -- I have it next to mine...it reminds me that the less I become confused the more I become a meaningful opponent in this challenge. And I've lived the first (almost) 40 years of my life either completely confused, or a formidable opponent. Confusion can be like a smoke break for me..as I can breath in and out and remind myself that it's like anything else, you have to 'get in it's head' and then take it over and organize the crap out of it...this autism SHIT is not easy to do...it's like whack a mole sometimes.. LOL! Sometimes I wish I could be 'that' person who can wander around aimlessly happy and content in the 'just being.' Maybe when I'm 105. lol! laura > > > > > > recently posted about wheat inhibiting the uptake of b12. Is that in > > > every circumstance or only when there is a problem with the > >breakdown/digestion > > > > > > > > of wheat? > > > > > > -Tammy > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 I forget the precise reason now -- but people with oxalate issues can't do Vit C. I think it makes more oxalates? Maybe Toni would know better the exact reason. I had to stop Vit C for Maia. She's going through another oxalate dump right now. Funny you mention that 'had a hard time with supps during pregnancy' -- I did too. I threw them up as soon as I took them. I sought to find a supp that would allow me to keep it down. (all three pregnancies) -- I ended up with the New Chapter Organic Prenatal Vitamins. It was THE only one I have ever managed to keep down. I stopped trying others as it seemed pointless and a waste of money. I had actually thought Rob might benefit from this vitamin as he too has a hard time with the 'smell' of vitamins and supplements --which is why we do liquids mostly. Alberta's thoughts on the subject make me wonder as Rob doesn't do well on Potatoes either (although they did not show up on his IGg) as I found he tends to be absent minded, or thoughts just don't connect when he eats them. I noticed it one night removed them for 30 days, and then reintroduced them..and got the same result. I believe white potatoes are high oxalate and Rob doesn't do high oxalates well at all. He thrives on a low ox diet. I realized this a while a go, I just didn't make the connection to my son about it. Toni did. I like your 'Vitamin C' thoughts. As I tend to think that way myself, you can't overdose, so what seems to be the harm. When you say 'pocs' -- are talking about like a rash on the cheeks or face? Curious only because Jimmy gets that when he gets hi oxalate foods without his calcium, zinc and mag supplements. Toni actually figured that one out for us, it does wonders for us. -- It also made his ADHD symptoms completely disappear as well. (They were mostly gone, but we saw complete normalcy when we added these separately) Also, Rob did really well with the B12 nasal spray. He is currently doing shots, but even he has said he likes the nasal spray better. I wonder if it just gets to the brain faster? He also does pops, and sublinquals - he says the shot makes the area sore. *but at least he tried it...His serum B12 is crazy low. That was even doing the shots (and I think I was administering them wrong!) and pops and sublinquals. And I agree, the blood serum of vitamins is important to look at, because if the adequate resources aren't available, you're right, they hang out -- without transportation. My Doc said, sometimes they are like teenagers without anything to do on a Friday night and find themselves in front of a convenience store, bored and being useless (or wreaking havoc)...hence the 'bonkers'... makes sense. I keep meaning to get her (McCandeless) book. I did notice that when I started juicing, both Rob and Jimmy seemed to respond to other therapies better/faster. I tended to wonder if the addition of the nutrients was helpful in the 'transport' and utilization. When I started juicing 2 times a day, I noticed Jimmy got just 'better.' -- He seemed on top of his game daily. I also wonder if the rotovirus (you drink it) caused the destruction of his intestinal villi -- because Maddie never got that vaccine. She also can eat and seems to absorb the nutrition, Jimmy seems to struggle in that area still. Maddie also eats Ezekiel bread and breaks it down fine without issues (although there is gluten in there that isn't sprouted) -- Jimmy cannot tolerate it, nor can he break it down. He does eat citrus..so I wonder if that helps as well. (You've got me thinking again...) I did not know/realize/remember? that B vitamins help with dopamine and seratonin...this actually makes great sense and applicable in our case. Rob seemed to suffer from depression when we got his vitamins compounded, this seemed to disappear. I had added B6 back to Jimmy's mix here about 4 months ago. (I had stopped supplementing because he was waking up a lot at night with nightmares) -- This also seemed to help him tremendously. A reminder to me that just because it didn't work 12 months ago, doesn't mean I shouldn't revisit it...That is why I like this board, they are constantly reminding me that this 'disorder' is dynamic, not static. Changing course is part of the daily decisions we face and the challenge to 'stay the course' or 'abandon ship' -- and you don't know unless you are there to understand the physical and mental signs of which course to take. OH, and on a last note... Another thing -- when we gave him a few wheat crackers -- I had mentioned that he didn't get any symptoms other than the eczema spot, I was wrong. He has wet the bed two nights in a row, and this morning he is craving chocolate and sweets. In the morning he tends to want things that tend to be dense with nutrition (veg drink, eggs, toast, bacon/ham, blueberries, water) and as the day goes on, he wants 'the energy.' and will ask for pineapple juice or his juicer drink that has a lot of fruits in it, noodles, rice, sandwiches, his B12 pop, etc. -- and at dinner he just likes 'broccoli' with salt and olive oil or green beans, squash, or a little chicken and lots of veggies. His night time meal tends to be small...as his huge meals are at the start of his day. (Cheryl had written about having dinner for breakfast or not tending to worry about what was 'expected' for each meal--that's what she should blog about!...) My Mom used to have this 'sign' on her wall next to her mirror that said " no enemy would dare bomb this place and end this confusion. " -- I have it next to mine...it reminds me that the less I become confused the more I become a meaningful opponent in this challenge. And I've lived the first (almost) 40 years of my life either completely confused, or a formidable opponent. Confusion can be like a smoke break for me..as I can breath in and out and remind myself that it's like anything else, you have to 'get in it's head' and then take it over and organize the crap out of it...this autism SHIT is not easy to do...it's like whack a mole sometimes.. LOL! Sometimes I wish I could be 'that' person who can wander around aimlessly happy and content in the 'just being.' Maybe when I'm 105. lol! laura > > > > > > recently posted about wheat inhibiting the uptake of b12. Is that in > > > every circumstance or only when there is a problem with the > >breakdown/digestion > > > > > > > > of wheat? > > > > > > -Tammy > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Vitamin C can convert to oxalate in the cell. So you can't take calcium citrate before meals to absorb the oxalate, like you can with food... it's just that excess C inside the cell will convert to oxalate and remain trapped in the cell if the blood level of oxalate is not low enough for it to escape. I am not really sure on the specifics, but Owens would have gobs of documentation. My kids are low in C, and I am supposed to supp both by spacing out the C and supp it several times a day. I haven't been but I need to do it. I bet they will improve., dumping oxalates causes wet beds in many a list-mate. Alek wets the bed when dumping. It has explained the weeks of dry nights followed by a few days of wet bed, and then back to dry nights. It's actually a pretty amazing thing. LOL I forget the precise reason now -- but people with oxalate issues can't do Vit C. I think it makes more oxalates? Maybe Toni would know better the exact reason. I had to stop Vit C for Maia. She's going through another oxalate dump right now. Funny you mention that 'had a hard time with supps during pregnancy' -- I did too. I threw them up as soon as I took them. I sought to find a supp that would allow me to keep it down. (all three pregnancies) -- I ended up with the New Chapter Organic Prenatal Vitamins. It was THE only one I have ever managed to keep down. I stopped trying others as it seemed pointless and a waste of money. I had actually thought Rob might benefit from this vitamin as he too has a hard time with the 'smell' of vitamins and supplements --which is why we do liquids mostly. Alberta's thoughts on the subject make me wonder as Rob doesn't do well on Potatoes either (although they did not show up on his IGg) as I found he tends to be absent minded, or thoughts just don't connect when he eats them. I noticed it one night removed them for 30 days, and then reintroduced them..and got the same result. I believe white potatoes are high oxalate and Rob doesn't do high oxalates well at all. He thrives on a low ox diet. I realized this a while a go, I just didn't make the connection to my son about it. Toni did. I like your 'Vitamin C' thoughts. As I tend to think that way myself, you can't overdose, so what seems to be the harm. When you say 'pocs' -- are talking about like a rash on the cheeks or face? Curious only because Jimmy gets that when he gets hi oxalate foods without his calcium, zinc and mag supplements. Toni actually figured that one out for us, it does wonders for us. -- It also made his ADHD symptoms completely disappear as well. (They were mostly gone, but we saw complete normalcy when we added these separately) Also, Rob did really well with the B12 nasal spray. He is currently doing shots, but even he has said he likes the nasal spray better. I wonder if it just gets to the brain faster? He also does pops, and sublinquals - he says the shot makes the area sore. *but at least he tried it...His serum B12 is crazy low. That was even doing the shots (and I think I was administering them wrong!) and pops and sublinquals. And I agree, the blood serum of vitamins is important to look at, because if the adequate resources aren't available, you're right, they hang out -- without transportation. My Doc said, sometimes they are like teenagers without anything to do on a Friday night and find themselves in front of a convenience store, bored and being useless (or wreaking havoc)...hence the 'bonkers'... makes sense. I keep meaning to get her (McCandeless) book. I did notice that when I started juicing, both Rob and Jimmy seemed to respond to other therapies better/faster. I tended to wonder if the addition of the nutrients was helpful in the 'transport' and utilization. When I started juicing 2 times a day, I noticed Jimmy got just 'better.' -- He seemed on top of his game daily. I also wonder if the rotovirus (you drink it) caused the destruction of his intestinal villi -- because Maddie never got that vaccine. She also can eat and seems to absorb the nutrition, Jimmy seems to struggle in that area still. Maddie also eats Ezekiel bread and breaks it down fine without issues (although there is gluten in there that isn't sprouted) -- Jimmy cannot tolerate it, nor can he break it down. He does eat citrus..so I wonder if that helps as well. (You've got me thinking again...) I did not know/realize/remember? that B vitamins help with dopamine and seratonin...this actually makes great sense and applicable in our case. Rob seemed to suffer from depression when we got his vitamins compounded, this seemed to disappear. I had added B6 back to Jimmy's mix here about 4 months ago. (I had stopped supplementing because he was waking up a lot at night with nightmares) -- This also seemed to help him tremendously. A reminder to me that just because it didn't work 12 months ago, doesn't mean I shouldn't revisit it...That is why I like this board, they are constantly reminding me that this 'disorder' is dynamic, not static. Changing course is part of the daily decisions we face and the challenge to 'stay the course' or 'abandon ship' -- and you don't know unless you are there to understand the physical and mental signs of which course to take. OH, and on a last note... Another thing -- when we gave him a few wheat crackers -- I had mentioned that he didn't get any symptoms other than the eczema spot, I was wrong. He has wet the bed two nights in a row, and this morning he is craving chocolate and sweets. In the morning he tends to want things that tend to be dense with nutrition (veg drink, eggs, toast, bacon/ham, blueberries, water) and as the day goes on, he wants 'the energy.' and will ask for pineapple juice or his juicer drink that has a lot of fruits in it, noodles, rice, sandwiches, his B12 pop, etc. -- and at dinner he just likes 'broccoli' with salt and olive oil or green beans, squash, or a little chicken and lots of veggies. His night time meal tends to be small...as his huge meals are at the start of his day. (Cheryl had written about having dinner for breakfast or not tending to worry about what was 'expected' for each meal--that's what she should blog about!...) My Mom used to have this 'sign' on her wall next to her mirror that said " no enemy would dare bomb this place and end this confusion. " -- I have it next to mine...it reminds me that the less I become confused the more I become a meaningful opponent in this challenge. And I've lived the first (almost) 40 years of my life either completely confused, or a formidable opponent. Confusion can be like a smoke break for me..as I can breath in and out and remind myself that it's like anything else, you have to 'get in it's head' and then take it over and organize the crap out of it...this autism SHIT is not easy to do...it's like whack a mole sometimes.. LOL! Sometimes I wish I could be 'that' person who can wander around aimlessly happy and content in the 'just being.' Maybe when I'm 105. lol! laura > > > > > > recently posted about wheat inhibiting the uptake of b12. Is that in > > > every circumstance or only when there is a problem with the > >breakdown/digestion > > > > > > > > of wheat? > > > > > > -Tammy > > > > > > -- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Vitamin C can convert to oxalate in the cell. So you can't take calcium citrate before meals to absorb the oxalate, like you can with food... it's just that excess C inside the cell will convert to oxalate and remain trapped in the cell if the blood level of oxalate is not low enough for it to escape. I am not really sure on the specifics, but Owens would have gobs of documentation. My kids are low in C, and I am supposed to supp both by spacing out the C and supp it several times a day. I haven't been but I need to do it. I bet they will improve., dumping oxalates causes wet beds in many a list-mate. Alek wets the bed when dumping. It has explained the weeks of dry nights followed by a few days of wet bed, and then back to dry nights. It's actually a pretty amazing thing. LOL I forget the precise reason now -- but people with oxalate issues can't do Vit C. I think it makes more oxalates? Maybe Toni would know better the exact reason. I had to stop Vit C for Maia. She's going through another oxalate dump right now. Funny you mention that 'had a hard time with supps during pregnancy' -- I did too. I threw them up as soon as I took them. I sought to find a supp that would allow me to keep it down. (all three pregnancies) -- I ended up with the New Chapter Organic Prenatal Vitamins. It was THE only one I have ever managed to keep down. I stopped trying others as it seemed pointless and a waste of money. I had actually thought Rob might benefit from this vitamin as he too has a hard time with the 'smell' of vitamins and supplements --which is why we do liquids mostly. Alberta's thoughts on the subject make me wonder as Rob doesn't do well on Potatoes either (although they did not show up on his IGg) as I found he tends to be absent minded, or thoughts just don't connect when he eats them. I noticed it one night removed them for 30 days, and then reintroduced them..and got the same result. I believe white potatoes are high oxalate and Rob doesn't do high oxalates well at all. He thrives on a low ox diet. I realized this a while a go, I just didn't make the connection to my son about it. Toni did. I like your 'Vitamin C' thoughts. As I tend to think that way myself, you can't overdose, so what seems to be the harm. When you say 'pocs' -- are talking about like a rash on the cheeks or face? Curious only because Jimmy gets that when he gets hi oxalate foods without his calcium, zinc and mag supplements. Toni actually figured that one out for us, it does wonders for us. -- It also made his ADHD symptoms completely disappear as well. (They were mostly gone, but we saw complete normalcy when we added these separately) Also, Rob did really well with the B12 nasal spray. He is currently doing shots, but even he has said he likes the nasal spray better. I wonder if it just gets to the brain faster? He also does pops, and sublinquals - he says the shot makes the area sore. *but at least he tried it...His serum B12 is crazy low. That was even doing the shots (and I think I was administering them wrong!) and pops and sublinquals. And I agree, the blood serum of vitamins is important to look at, because if the adequate resources aren't available, you're right, they hang out -- without transportation. My Doc said, sometimes they are like teenagers without anything to do on a Friday night and find themselves in front of a convenience store, bored and being useless (or wreaking havoc)...hence the 'bonkers'... makes sense. I keep meaning to get her (McCandeless) book. I did notice that when I started juicing, both Rob and Jimmy seemed to respond to other therapies better/faster. I tended to wonder if the addition of the nutrients was helpful in the 'transport' and utilization. When I started juicing 2 times a day, I noticed Jimmy got just 'better.' -- He seemed on top of his game daily. I also wonder if the rotovirus (you drink it) caused the destruction of his intestinal villi -- because Maddie never got that vaccine. She also can eat and seems to absorb the nutrition, Jimmy seems to struggle in that area still. Maddie also eats Ezekiel bread and breaks it down fine without issues (although there is gluten in there that isn't sprouted) -- Jimmy cannot tolerate it, nor can he break it down. He does eat citrus..so I wonder if that helps as well. (You've got me thinking again...) I did not know/realize/remember? that B vitamins help with dopamine and seratonin...this actually makes great sense and applicable in our case. Rob seemed to suffer from depression when we got his vitamins compounded, this seemed to disappear. I had added B6 back to Jimmy's mix here about 4 months ago. (I had stopped supplementing because he was waking up a lot at night with nightmares) -- This also seemed to help him tremendously. A reminder to me that just because it didn't work 12 months ago, doesn't mean I shouldn't revisit it...That is why I like this board, they are constantly reminding me that this 'disorder' is dynamic, not static. Changing course is part of the daily decisions we face and the challenge to 'stay the course' or 'abandon ship' -- and you don't know unless you are there to understand the physical and mental signs of which course to take. OH, and on a last note... Another thing -- when we gave him a few wheat crackers -- I had mentioned that he didn't get any symptoms other than the eczema spot, I was wrong. He has wet the bed two nights in a row, and this morning he is craving chocolate and sweets. In the morning he tends to want things that tend to be dense with nutrition (veg drink, eggs, toast, bacon/ham, blueberries, water) and as the day goes on, he wants 'the energy.' and will ask for pineapple juice or his juicer drink that has a lot of fruits in it, noodles, rice, sandwiches, his B12 pop, etc. -- and at dinner he just likes 'broccoli' with salt and olive oil or green beans, squash, or a little chicken and lots of veggies. His night time meal tends to be small...as his huge meals are at the start of his day. (Cheryl had written about having dinner for breakfast or not tending to worry about what was 'expected' for each meal--that's what she should blog about!...) My Mom used to have this 'sign' on her wall next to her mirror that said " no enemy would dare bomb this place and end this confusion. " -- I have it next to mine...it reminds me that the less I become confused the more I become a meaningful opponent in this challenge. And I've lived the first (almost) 40 years of my life either completely confused, or a formidable opponent. Confusion can be like a smoke break for me..as I can breath in and out and remind myself that it's like anything else, you have to 'get in it's head' and then take it over and organize the crap out of it...this autism SHIT is not easy to do...it's like whack a mole sometimes.. LOL! Sometimes I wish I could be 'that' person who can wander around aimlessly happy and content in the 'just being.' Maybe when I'm 105. lol! laura > > > > > > recently posted about wheat inhibiting the uptake of b12. Is that in > > > every circumstance or only when there is a problem with the > >breakdown/digestion > > > > > > > > of wheat? > > > > > > -Tammy > > > > > > -- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Vitamin C can convert to oxalate in the cell. So you can't take calcium citrate before meals to absorb the oxalate, like you can with food... it's just that excess C inside the cell will convert to oxalate and remain trapped in the cell if the blood level of oxalate is not low enough for it to escape. I am not really sure on the specifics, but Owens would have gobs of documentation. My kids are low in C, and I am supposed to supp both by spacing out the C and supp it several times a day. I haven't been but I need to do it. I bet they will improve., dumping oxalates causes wet beds in many a list-mate. Alek wets the bed when dumping. It has explained the weeks of dry nights followed by a few days of wet bed, and then back to dry nights. It's actually a pretty amazing thing. LOL I forget the precise reason now -- but people with oxalate issues can't do Vit C. I think it makes more oxalates? Maybe Toni would know better the exact reason. I had to stop Vit C for Maia. She's going through another oxalate dump right now. Funny you mention that 'had a hard time with supps during pregnancy' -- I did too. I threw them up as soon as I took them. I sought to find a supp that would allow me to keep it down. (all three pregnancies) -- I ended up with the New Chapter Organic Prenatal Vitamins. It was THE only one I have ever managed to keep down. I stopped trying others as it seemed pointless and a waste of money. I had actually thought Rob might benefit from this vitamin as he too has a hard time with the 'smell' of vitamins and supplements --which is why we do liquids mostly. Alberta's thoughts on the subject make me wonder as Rob doesn't do well on Potatoes either (although they did not show up on his IGg) as I found he tends to be absent minded, or thoughts just don't connect when he eats them. I noticed it one night removed them for 30 days, and then reintroduced them..and got the same result. I believe white potatoes are high oxalate and Rob doesn't do high oxalates well at all. He thrives on a low ox diet. I realized this a while a go, I just didn't make the connection to my son about it. Toni did. I like your 'Vitamin C' thoughts. As I tend to think that way myself, you can't overdose, so what seems to be the harm. When you say 'pocs' -- are talking about like a rash on the cheeks or face? Curious only because Jimmy gets that when he gets hi oxalate foods without his calcium, zinc and mag supplements. Toni actually figured that one out for us, it does wonders for us. -- It also made his ADHD symptoms completely disappear as well. (They were mostly gone, but we saw complete normalcy when we added these separately) Also, Rob did really well with the B12 nasal spray. He is currently doing shots, but even he has said he likes the nasal spray better. I wonder if it just gets to the brain faster? He also does pops, and sublinquals - he says the shot makes the area sore. *but at least he tried it...His serum B12 is crazy low. That was even doing the shots (and I think I was administering them wrong!) and pops and sublinquals. And I agree, the blood serum of vitamins is important to look at, because if the adequate resources aren't available, you're right, they hang out -- without transportation. My Doc said, sometimes they are like teenagers without anything to do on a Friday night and find themselves in front of a convenience store, bored and being useless (or wreaking havoc)...hence the 'bonkers'... makes sense. I keep meaning to get her (McCandeless) book. I did notice that when I started juicing, both Rob and Jimmy seemed to respond to other therapies better/faster. I tended to wonder if the addition of the nutrients was helpful in the 'transport' and utilization. When I started juicing 2 times a day, I noticed Jimmy got just 'better.' -- He seemed on top of his game daily. I also wonder if the rotovirus (you drink it) caused the destruction of his intestinal villi -- because Maddie never got that vaccine. She also can eat and seems to absorb the nutrition, Jimmy seems to struggle in that area still. Maddie also eats Ezekiel bread and breaks it down fine without issues (although there is gluten in there that isn't sprouted) -- Jimmy cannot tolerate it, nor can he break it down. He does eat citrus..so I wonder if that helps as well. (You've got me thinking again...) I did not know/realize/remember? that B vitamins help with dopamine and seratonin...this actually makes great sense and applicable in our case. Rob seemed to suffer from depression when we got his vitamins compounded, this seemed to disappear. I had added B6 back to Jimmy's mix here about 4 months ago. (I had stopped supplementing because he was waking up a lot at night with nightmares) -- This also seemed to help him tremendously. A reminder to me that just because it didn't work 12 months ago, doesn't mean I shouldn't revisit it...That is why I like this board, they are constantly reminding me that this 'disorder' is dynamic, not static. Changing course is part of the daily decisions we face and the challenge to 'stay the course' or 'abandon ship' -- and you don't know unless you are there to understand the physical and mental signs of which course to take. OH, and on a last note... Another thing -- when we gave him a few wheat crackers -- I had mentioned that he didn't get any symptoms other than the eczema spot, I was wrong. He has wet the bed two nights in a row, and this morning he is craving chocolate and sweets. In the morning he tends to want things that tend to be dense with nutrition (veg drink, eggs, toast, bacon/ham, blueberries, water) and as the day goes on, he wants 'the energy.' and will ask for pineapple juice or his juicer drink that has a lot of fruits in it, noodles, rice, sandwiches, his B12 pop, etc. -- and at dinner he just likes 'broccoli' with salt and olive oil or green beans, squash, or a little chicken and lots of veggies. His night time meal tends to be small...as his huge meals are at the start of his day. (Cheryl had written about having dinner for breakfast or not tending to worry about what was 'expected' for each meal--that's what she should blog about!...) My Mom used to have this 'sign' on her wall next to her mirror that said " no enemy would dare bomb this place and end this confusion. " -- I have it next to mine...it reminds me that the less I become confused the more I become a meaningful opponent in this challenge. And I've lived the first (almost) 40 years of my life either completely confused, or a formidable opponent. Confusion can be like a smoke break for me..as I can breath in and out and remind myself that it's like anything else, you have to 'get in it's head' and then take it over and organize the crap out of it...this autism SHIT is not easy to do...it's like whack a mole sometimes.. LOL! Sometimes I wish I could be 'that' person who can wander around aimlessly happy and content in the 'just being.' Maybe when I'm 105. lol! laura > > > > > > recently posted about wheat inhibiting the uptake of b12. Is that in > > > every circumstance or only when there is a problem with the > >breakdown/digestion > > > > > > > > of wheat? > > > > > > -Tammy > > > > > > -- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 PPSThe choc craving is likely linked to the oxalate too. And the fact it is high arginine. Both these things would ease a person's dumping symptoms and whatever feelings he is having while dumping are pushing him to crave it. I know you don't have a hard time believing that , you have dug up a lot of alternative thinking and such to look into... but in case someone else is reading and has a hard time believing it... being on the low oxalate diet is putting your body thru detox, and lots of people get the sort-of DTs from not eating some of their favorite foods. We crave the poisons... so sad... I think says those who do not have leaky gut absorb maybe 2-4% of the oxalate coming in, while those with the leaky guts are absorbing far more. And if you are " here " on this list-serve, it is likely due to a leaky gut issue. :-( -- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 The "pocs" are not quite blisters, & not quite measles or chicken pocs. Just something in between. He got them the first time on his face and trunk. This time, I'm only seeing them on his face. I've never noticed these pocs emerging in relation to his diet. They appear a few weeks after "the cough" leaves - this is the second time in less than a year. The timing could just be coincidence - I'll have to make it a point to watch and see.....He does have one spot under the bridge of his nose that remains (at times becoming very faint, but always "there" to some degree. It was the first one to ever appear and only one of a few to ever "blister up" --for lack of better term----at times it will become red and inflammed, other times it's quiet). Now, I'll try to watch it from a dietary point of view. To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 1:00:05 PMSubject: Re: Wheat and b-12 Funny you mention that 'had a hard time with supps during pregnancy' -- I did too. I threw them up as soon as I took them. I sought to find a supp that would allow me to keep it down. (all three pregnancies) -- I ended up with the New Chapter Organic Prenatal Vitamins. It was THE only one I have ever managed to keep down. I stopped trying others as it seemed pointless and a waste of money. I had actually thought Rob might benefit from this vitamin as he too has a hard time with the 'smell' of vitamins and supplements --which is why we do liquids mostly. Alberta's thoughts on the subject make me wonder as Rob doesn't do well on Potatoes either (although they did not show up on his IGg) as I found he tends to be absent minded, or thoughts just don't connect when he eats them. I noticed it one night removed them for 30 days, and then reintroduced them..and got the same result. I believe white potatoes are high oxalate and Rob doesn't do high oxalates well at all. He thrives on a low ox diet. I realized this a while a go, I just didn't make the connection to my son about it. Toni did. I like your 'Vitamin C' thoughts. As I tend to think that way myself, you can't overdose, so what seems to be the harm. When you say 'pocs' -- are talking about like a rash on the cheeks or face? Curious only because Jimmy gets that when he gets hi oxalate foods without his calcium, zinc and mag supplements. Toni actually figured that one out for us, it does wonders for us. -- It also made his ADHD symptoms completely disappear as well. (They were mostly gone, but we saw complete normalcy when we added these separately)Also, Rob did really well with the B12 nasal spray. He is currently doing shots, but even he has said he likes the nasal spray better. I wonder if it just gets to the brain faster? He also does pops, and sublinquals - he says the shot makes the area sore. *but at least he tried it...His serum B12 is crazy low. That was even doing the shots (and I think I was administering them wrong!) and pops and sublinquals.And I agree, the blood serum of vitamins is important to look at, because if the adequate resources aren't available, you're right, they hang out -- without transportation. My Doc said, sometimes they are like teenagers without anything to do on a Friday night and find themselves in front of a convenience store, bored and being useless (or wreaking havoc)...hence the 'bonkers'... makes sense. I keep meaning to get her (McCandeless) book.I did notice that when I started juicing, both Rob and Jimmy seemed to respond to other therapies better/faster. I tended to wonder if the addition of the nutrients was helpful in the 'transport' and utilization. When I started juicing 2 times a day, I noticed Jimmy got just 'better.' -- He seemed on top of his game daily. I also wonder if the rotovirus (you drink it) caused the destruction of his intestinal villi -- because Maddie never got that vaccine. She also can eat and seems to absorb the nutrition, Jimmy seems to struggle in that area still. Maddie also eats Ezekiel bread and breaks it down fine without issues (although there is gluten in there that isn't sprouted) -- Jimmy cannot tolerate it, nor can he break it down. He does eat citrus..so I wonder if that helps as well. (You've got me thinking again...)I did not know/realize/remember? that B vitamins help with dopamine and seratonin...this actually makes great sense and applicable in our case. Rob seemed to suffer from depression when we got his vitamins compounded, this seemed to disappear. I had added B6 back to Jimmy's mix here about 4 months ago. (I had stopped supplementing because he was waking up a lot at night with nightmares) -- This also seemed to help him tremendously. A reminder to me that just because it didn't work 12 months ago, doesn't mean I shouldn't revisit it...That is why I like this board, they are constantly reminding me that this 'disorder' is dynamic, not static. Changing course is part of the daily decisions we face and the challenge to 'stay the course' or 'abandon ship' -- and you don't know unless you are there to understand the physical and mental signs of which course to take. OH, and on a last note... Another thing -- when we gave him a few wheat crackers -- I had mentioned that he didn't get any symptoms other than the eczema spot, I was wrong. He has wet the bed two nights in a row, and this morning he is craving chocolate and sweets. In the morning he tends to want things that tend to be dense with nutrition (veg drink, eggs, toast, bacon/ham, blueberries, water) and as the day goes on, he wants 'the energy.' and will ask for pineapple juice or his juicer drink that has a lot of fruits in it, noodles, rice, sandwiches, his B12 pop, etc. -- and at dinner he just likes 'broccoli' with salt and olive oil or green beans, squash, or a little chicken and lots of veggies. His night time meal tends to be small...as his huge meals are at the start of his day. (Cheryl had written about having dinner for breakfast or not tending to worry about what was 'expected' for each meal--that's what she should blog about!...) My Mom used to have this 'sign' on her wall next to her mirror that said "no enemy would dare bomb this place and end this confusion." -- I have it next to mine...it reminds me that the less I become confused the more I become a meaningful opponent in this challenge. And I've lived the first (almost) 40 years of my life either completely confused, or a formidable opponent. Confusion can be like a smoke break for me..as I can breath in and out and remind myself that it's like anything else, you have to 'get in it's head' and then take it over and organize the crap out of it...this autism SHIT is not easy to do...it's like whack a mole sometimes.. LOL! Sometimes I wish I could be 'that' person who can wander around aimlessly happy and content in the 'just being.' Maybe when I'm 105. lol! laura> > >> > > recently posted about wheat inhibiting the uptake of b12. Is that in > > > every circumstance or only when there is a problem with the > >breakdown/digestion > >> > >> > > of wheat?> > > > > > -Tammy> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 so...that being said, do I give him the choc to ease his symptoms -- or do I keep him off choc? I kept him off. (that WAS the right answer right?) -- I feel so confused sometimes with oxalates. No accidents today. (yeah!) When oxalates are in full force...and I assume they are when he eats wheat (and other high ox's)-- and the detox is happening, there really isn't much one can do except to get thru it, right? I have been doing my regular calcium, zinc and magnesium supps. I also did a low ox juice today, because I thought that the chocolate had to do with sweets and ox's -- and his speech session went splendid..(thank God, I want them to say, " no more speech necessary, see you in 5 months for an eval-checkup " save myself like $400 a month..ugh) and one more thing - is low ox forever, or is it until the gut is healed? (and you have proper gut flora, and a good diet, right?) BTW - I have yet another good low ox drink - I'm going to post it when I go find it. laura > > PPS > The choc craving is likely linked to the oxalate too. And the fact it is > high arginine. Both these things would ease a person's dumping symptoms and > whatever feelings he is having while dumping are pushing him to crave it. I > know you don't have a hard time believing that , you have dug up a lot > of alternative thinking and such to look into... but in case someone else is > reading and has a hard time believing it... being on the low oxalate diet is > putting your body thru detox, and lots of people get the sort-of DTs from > not eating some of their favorite foods. We crave the poisons... so sad... I > think says those who do not have leaky gut absorb maybe 2-4% of the > oxalate coming in, while those with the leaky guts are absorbing far more. > And if you are " here " on this list-serve, it is likely due to a leaky gut > issue. :-( > > -- > Toni > > ------ > Mind like a steel trap... > Rusty and illegal in 37 states. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 so...that being said, do I give him the choc to ease his symptoms -- or do I keep him off choc? I kept him off. (that WAS the right answer right?) -- I feel so confused sometimes with oxalates. No accidents today. (yeah!) When oxalates are in full force...and I assume they are when he eats wheat (and other high ox's)-- and the detox is happening, there really isn't much one can do except to get thru it, right? I have been doing my regular calcium, zinc and magnesium supps. I also did a low ox juice today, because I thought that the chocolate had to do with sweets and ox's -- and his speech session went splendid..(thank God, I want them to say, " no more speech necessary, see you in 5 months for an eval-checkup " save myself like $400 a month..ugh) and one more thing - is low ox forever, or is it until the gut is healed? (and you have proper gut flora, and a good diet, right?) BTW - I have yet another good low ox drink - I'm going to post it when I go find it. laura > > PPS > The choc craving is likely linked to the oxalate too. And the fact it is > high arginine. Both these things would ease a person's dumping symptoms and > whatever feelings he is having while dumping are pushing him to crave it. I > know you don't have a hard time believing that , you have dug up a lot > of alternative thinking and such to look into... but in case someone else is > reading and has a hard time believing it... being on the low oxalate diet is > putting your body thru detox, and lots of people get the sort-of DTs from > not eating some of their favorite foods. We crave the poisons... so sad... I > think says those who do not have leaky gut absorb maybe 2-4% of the > oxalate coming in, while those with the leaky guts are absorbing far more. > And if you are " here " on this list-serve, it is likely due to a leaky gut > issue. :-( > > -- > Toni > > ------ > Mind like a steel trap... > Rusty and illegal in 37 states. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 You can give L-arginine to ease dumping. Not sure why it works. I speculate it has something to do with calcium.In Jimmy's case, since he reacts so quickly to oxalate, I would think that 1-his gut is not healed yet and 2-his diet is fairly clean... I mean he detoxifies the oxalate quick... So that would make me think that maybe he's been de-toxing oxalate for a while. I don't know, these are just guesses. I have had a few good oxalate dumps over the summer and now I get oxalate symptoms the next day (foggy head or carpal tunnel flare) I think my diet is fairly low ox now. so...that being said, do I give him the choc to ease his symptoms -- or do I keep him off choc? I kept him off. (that WAS the right answer right?) -- I feel so confused sometimes with oxalates. No accidents today. (yeah!) When oxalates are in full force...and I assume they are when he eats wheat (and other high ox's)-- and the detox is happening, there really isn't much one can do except to get thru it, right? I have been doing my regular calcium, zinc and magnesium supps. I also did a low ox juice today, because I thought that the chocolate had to do with sweets and ox's -- and his speech session went splendid..(thank God, I want them to say, " no more speech necessary, see you in 5 months for an eval-checkup " save myself like $400 a month..ugh) and one more thing - is low ox forever, or is it until the gut is healed? (and you have proper gut flora, and a good diet, right?) BTW - I have yet another good low ox drink - I'm going to post it when I go find it. laura > > PPS > The choc craving is likely linked to the oxalate too. And the fact it is > high arginine. Both these things would ease a person's dumping symptoms and > whatever feelings he is having while dumping are pushing him to crave it. I > know you don't have a hard time believing that , you have dug up a lot > of alternative thinking and such to look into... but in case someone else is > reading and has a hard time believing it... being on the low oxalate diet is > putting your body thru detox, and lots of people get the sort-of DTs from > not eating some of their favorite foods. We crave the poisons... so sad... I > think says those who do not have leaky gut absorb maybe 2-4% of the > oxalate coming in, while those with the leaky guts are absorbing far more. > And if you are " here " on this list-serve, it is likely due to a leaky gut > issue. :-( > > -- > Toni > > ------ > Mind like a steel trap... > Rusty and illegal in 37 states. > -- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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