Re: does anyone think bpd is a fancy scientific term for evil?

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I really like Rose's idea of working to throw out the untruths to get to the

kernel of truth. I think we get fed so many lies by crazy parents and our

culture in general that that is a big job. Perhaps having an attitude mentally

of " is that true? " for most everything might really help. I like his idea of

the observer stance too...I can get in that mode if I've been regularly

meditating and it does help a great deal. Though I could see where that could

easily slip into dissociation if your brain had a well worn path in that

direction.

What do they say the opposite of love and hate is indifference while love and

hate represent the ultimate involvement just two ends of the same spectrum. I

too would like to get to where I don't still want their love and I don't have to

hate them either for the damage they've done or the love they can't give.

I winced for the 14 year old you in the car, hoping to have a happy date,

feeling utterly humiliated. At that age even having a pimple can be a cause of

feeling not worth being seen or wanted. I can imagine whatever she said was

like that times a million. People who revel in making others feel humiliated

are indeed very low individuals. There's a malevolence in that that shows the

devolved state of her mind.

I'm sorry you are having to work through so much grief lately. It sounds like

it is a healing process though - I really liked what you said " I do know that I

don't want to waste this life I have been given the way she wasted hers. "

Amen.

>

> ,your post wasn't in the slightest bit disjointed

>

> I can definitely imagine two " devoted " (uhm:disordered) daughters being ok

with their mother going mute from a medication an authority figure had given to

her--good for you for standing up and advocating for her.Their passivity can be

maddening.

>

> I didn't give a very good over view of Rose's views--my " excuse "

being that I had something else going on on Sunday and was a bit

distracted...but I think he was sincere in his seeking after spiritual

truth.That is always a slippery slope.

>

> I am myself in a transitional phase right now--I feel that much of what

I believed I *wanted* to believe.Like you,I wouldn't say that I have a market on

" how it is " .And it all gets very tricky when so much psychological trauma is

involved.Rose proposed adopting an " Observer " stance towards personal problems

and that requires much discipline to achieve in a healthy way.I had to do that

as a child and it got me into a habit of depersonalizing/dissociating ,so now as

an adult I have to retrain that to be something more personally functional.

>

> I'm just not up to the task right now of giving an adequate synopsis of

Rose's views but one thing he advocated was proceeding from what is untruth

rather than holding on to what one assumes is a or *the* truth.Shedding untruth

bit by bit to pare one's view of being down to what would more closely

approximate truth.He didn't advocate a feel good discipline,so it's not for

everyone--what he proposed was less about reassuring oneself with what we wish

could be than seeking to clarify oneself by learning to acknowledge what *is*.

>

> Personally--and this is just me--I want to get beyond both giving my

parents a " pass " for their behavior AND condemning them for it.I mean,I want to

step beyond that.For me right now,saying that my parents did know better on some

levels and could have controlled themselves is still getting into wanting to

find that pause button that could reverse the past.The past is what it is now

and I have to confront the damage for my own sake.Even though my nada claimed to

have " purposefully " torn me down,to my view right now she was also wanting to

claim a power and control over *herself* that she didn't really have--how much

easier to tell yourself that you did it on purpose than to admit to yourself

that you couldn't stop it because you needed help--to me her saying she did any

of the abuse " purposefully " is an expression of denial and weakness plus it is

sad and pathetic.Because anyone who is truly in command of their own mind

wouldn't purposefully choose to be so destructive.It did her no good.

>

> Right now all of it seems more sad to me than a cause for rage.I can't

bring myself to mention the precise details but one Friday night when she was

driving me and my first boyfriend to the skating rink for a date,she said

something humiliating to me out of the blue,some scatalogical humor,and my

boyfriend laughed at it/at me...which is exactly what she wanted: to ruin my

evening with him before it even began...I imagine her now driving home that

night after dropping us off and the thought of her feeling *any* satisfaction

over making her fourteen year old daughter ashamed of herself as she drove home

is deeply deeply pathetic.I'd be squirming in my seat and feeling horrible if

I'd done something like that to a fourteen year old who was all excited about

going on a date with a boy who had asked her out.I'd think: Oh god,what is wrong

with me? I just stooped *really* low; I am pathetic...

>

> If she was pleased with herself that night,to me,that is incredibly

pathetic.It's an incredible waste.She wasted her life as a mother; she did her

own self down.Only a sick mind would come up with what she said,only a sick mind

would go ahead and actually *say* it.Only a sick and helpless person would then

flatter their ego with notions of doing such things " on purpose " .What kind of

power is that? It is no power--lashing out is not owning your power.It is caving

to your own weakness,to my view,it is completely pathetic.She was a sick woman

and that sickness wasted her life,wasted away any goodness and true happiness

she might have known.It's a total waste.

>

> To me right now that is very sad.I feel sorry for her--not in a way

that I want to " forgive " her for her behavior,but in a way that goes beyond

needing to bother with forgiveness.That seems to me right now to be beside the

point.She was and she is sick.If she had known that,she wouldn't have put it on

me.She had no courage at all--she was profoundly weak.She is profoundly pathetic

and sad--her entire life has been and will be wasted by this.Even if she never

truly knows in this life what she did wrong--she will also never know the bounty

beauty and peace of doing your best; of seeking and finding rightness and

wholeness for yourself even when it hurts...she will never know what it is to be

fully and simply human..she lost out on *life*; her illness consumed her.

>

> But I don't have to live like that.I'm feeling a ton of grief

lately over how many years of my own life her sickness took from me.It's

tragically sad for both of us.She is stuck where she is.But I have the potential

to grow.Life,for me,is still there to be lived.Her liabilities are her own at

this point.No longer mine.I don't believe in a straight up heaven or hell and I

no longer know if I even believe in reincarnation but I do know that I don't

want to waste this life I have been given the way she wasted hers.Even with this

grief: my own life is still *there* to be lived...I survived her,not intact,but

I survived--judgment of her I leave to a wsidom greater than my own.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ha,,I love that phrase: " the devolved state of (nada's) mind " ! Since

" unevolved " would imply some kind of eventual possibility of evolution--no!

Their minds are truly *devolved*--so very apt...

The thing for me with throwing out the untruths is that at times it's

liberating but at other times it feels very isolating--and yeah it's totally a

big job given that most of what passes for truth is delusional BS.That's also

where the Observer stance would come in handy since you're never going to know

for sure anyway but you can step back from taking your own mind too

literally.I'm glad meditation works for you,I think that's a very healthy and

worthwhile pursuit--and it seems to me even though meditation makes my own mind

" slip " that doing so could also function as a way to focus on a deeper or wider

trueness of being,so it's great that you have that in your healing arsenal.

Thank you for your compassion about the grief thing--I've lamented for

years to myself that I have trouble accessing my own feelings of sadness and

have discovered after all that I *can* feel deeply sad about all of this in an

immediate way.It's hard but it's also " humanizing " and therefore healing.I've

been amazed by the stuff I am actually sad about,it's been consciousness

expanding to notice I had tamped down so much grief...I do feel like I'm slowly

coming back to life even though to do so through feeling sad sounds very counter

intuitive--trauma seems to turn everything upside down...But I had my ability to

experience being sad (and being safe while being sad) taken from me,so I'm

putting that back into my right to feel the full range of my own emotions.

Thanks again,

>

> Hi ,

>

> I really like Rose's idea of working to throw out the untruths to get to the

kernel of truth. I think we get fed so many lies by crazy parents and our

culture in general that that is a big job. Perhaps having an attitude mentally

of " is that true? " for most everything might really help. I like his idea of

the observer stance too...I can get in that mode if I've been regularly

meditating and it does help a great deal. Though I could see where that could

easily slip into dissociation if your brain had a well worn path in that

direction.

>

> What do they say the opposite of love and hate is indifference while love and

hate represent the ultimate involvement just two ends of the same spectrum. I

too would like to get to where I don't still want their love and I don't have to

hate them either for the damage they've done or the love they can't give.

>

> I winced for the 14 year old you in the car, hoping to have a happy date,

feeling utterly humiliated. At that age even having a pimple can be a cause of

feeling not worth being seen or wanted. I can imagine whatever she said was

like that times a million. People who revel in making others feel humiliated

are indeed very low individuals. There's a malevolence in that that shows the

devolved state of her mind.

>

> I'm sorry you are having to work through so much grief lately. It sounds

like it is a healing process though - I really liked what you said " I do know

that I don't want to waste this life I have been given the way she wasted hers. "

Amen.

>

>