Re: Am I fooling myself? (lengthy)

August 10, 2010

Hi, Nell -

It sounds to me like you're starting off just about like I did - already having

boundaries in place, already practicing a " distancing " from your mom, in the

interest of your own mental health - but just now finding out that there's a

vocabulary for what you've been doing by instinct, and that what you've been

feeling and doing all these years actually makes sense to a large group of

fellow " Kids Of " (KO's)these BPD parents.

Like you, I feel that I want to give my mom credit for the things she did right,

give her the benefit of the doubt, and give her a " pass " on some of the things

she did because she has been mentally ill. And then, sometimes I just get so

fed up that she's such a royal pain in the butt, that she's done such stupid

things, that she couldn't put her kids ahead of her craziness. And no matter

what credit I do or don't give her, I still have to contend with the fact that

she is impaired - she'll never be a " normal " mom, and every interaction I have

with her has to be constrained by and filtered through my boundaries and her

craziness. It's exhausting.

I don't have a problem calling my mom " Nada " - because it's a shorthand way of

letting the other posters here know who's the BPD parent in my posts. Some of

us have " Fada's " (dads with BPD), and some of our dads enabled our BPD moms -

they're " dishrag dads " - and then some of us have brothers with BPD (Badas),

etc. Yes, the names sound pejorative, but they also save time and keystrokes.

Although many of us use this space to vent about our crazy Family of Origin

(FOO), those same posters will later write about how they still have affection

for their Nadas, or how they are working toward a goal of trying to connect

better. We're all over the place, and we're all at different points of dealing

with our parents' BPD and our own reactions. So you're in good company as you

figure all this stuff out. Some of the posts here will be completely foreign to

your situation, and some will hit home so hard it takes your breath away. We

take what we can use, and try to help each other out when we can. I've found

this site extremely helpful, simply because I can get " reality checks " here when

I feel the rest of the world would not understand what I'm talking about.

As to your question - no, I don't think you're kidding yourself. It is possible

to hold two contradictory ideas at once - your Mom tried her best, but her best

wasn't good enough. You can honor her for what she was able to accomplish,

while mourning the lack of really good mothering. Most important, you can start

to figure out what was real or normal, and what was part of the BPD worldview

you were raised with. You can identify the techniques and life " skills " that

you DON'T want to copy from her (like manipulation, painting people either

all-good or all-bad, cycling through " friends, " etc.) You can start to put

together a picture of what you will look like as a mentally, emotionally healthy

person, then figure out what you have to do to get there - and you can figure

out how much control and contact to allow your mother. As is often repeated

here, there's nothing we can do about our BPD parents - the boundaries aren't

for them, they're for US.

Since a lot of what we KO's have to do is contrary to our cultural view of what

mothers and children are " supposed " to do, sometimes the best thing about this

site is that we give each other " permission " to put up those boundaries, limit

contact, and take action for our own self-preservation. It's such a relief!

August 10, 2010

Hello Nell,

You may or may not be fooling yourself in thinking that she did

her best. When a mental illness like BPD is involved, it is hard

to separate out how much misbehavior is caused by the mental

illness and how much is part of the person's underlying

personality. Some people with BPD just plain seem to be nasty.

Some don't. Generally they all make bad choices when it comes to

their partners, children and anyone else they would be expected

to have a close relationship with. Nothing forces them to make

the choices that cause us harm, but BPD distorts their thinking

so much that I don't believe they understand what they're doing.

Some of them appear to enjoy causing others pain, possibly

because their distorted thinking causes them to believe that the

other people deserve to feel pain. I believe that my nada is

often mostly oblivious of the damage she's done, but there are

times when she does set out to intentionally hurt someone else.

Whether or not she did the best she could, the things she did to

me, my brother, and even more so to my sister were damaging,

neglectful, and sometimes downright abusive.

Even if your mother did the best she could that doesn't mean

your husband doesn't have a point in saying you'd have been

better off raised by wolves. Sometimes the best that someone can

do is nowhere near good enough.

If you see a rabid dog, you protect yourself and your family

from it. The fact that the dog was a wonderful pet before it

caught rabies is immaterial. You have to protect yourself from

it once it is sick with rabies. Your mother is sick and

dangerous to your well-being. You have to do what it takes to

protect yourself rather than thinking about how she'd be a good

person if she wasn't sick. Just as you don't need to feel hatred

and anger toward the dog for having caught rabies, you don't

have to feel them toward a parent with BPD. You do have to be

realistic about what she is and isn't capable of doing though.

Personally, I think BPD makes them incapable of loving anyone,

including themselves, in the way that the rest of us define it.

Because they don't feel love like we do, they can't be expected

to act in a loving manner unless it suits them to do so for

other reasons. If you're realistic about how she behaves, I

don't see anything wrong with believing that she did the best

she could.

At 10:09 AM 08/10/2010 Lynell wrote:

>Hello to everyone,

>

>This is my sescond day in this group after accepting the fact

>that my mother is BPD. A new therapist of mine recogized the

>symptoms from our discussions. I have been riding a " high "

>since the discovery because I finally have a reason WHY? Also,

>that it's not my fault that she is miserable.

>

>After reading many posts and looking at the list of

>abbreviations I know why many of you refer to your parents as

>nada or fada. But I'm not comfortable refering to my mother

>that way as I feel that she did the best she could with her

>limited resources and within the confines of her mental

>illness. Before learning about BPD, I would rage about my

>mother, say I hated her and couldn't wait for her to die to my

>husband. Now I just feel pity and sadness for the lives not

>lived because of her illness. She put herself in circumstances

>that were less than ideal for her three daughters which proved

>detrimental to us and our futures but she suffered, too.

>

>Am I fooling myself that she did her best and hoped for the

>best for each of us? That she was not and is not conscience of

>how her behaviour causes such pain for me? That her constant

>manipulations have determined the course of my life up until

>four years ago? Can I believe that she deserves my respect as

>my mother and that I love her but don't have to like her.

>

>Could I be wearing rose coloured glasses by thinking that she

>wasn't a great mother, or the kind of mother I am, or wish I

>would have had but what she did wasn't meant to negatively

>affect us for years. Or, as my husband says, I would have been

>better off being raised by wolves?

>

>Am I making excuses for her and need to see her for what she

>is: mean, deceiful, manipulative, controlling, overbearing,

>hurtful, selfish and unfaithful person with evil doing as her

>motive? Or am I accepting of her and her illness and have

>learned how to protect myself. Should I give her a break

>because mental illness has run rampant in our family for 5

>generations?

>

>Bit of backstory: she was married 7 times from 15 to 32. She

>has three daughters, two of which were sexually abused by her

>last husband. I am the youngest of the two. When we disclosed

>to her she didn't believe us and continued to live with him

>until he died. I have been in therapy and on medication since

>I was 22 and am now 46. Over the last 4 years I have placed

>firm boundaries and force her to live by them. I moved out of

>the country for six months to break her hold on me. I still

>see her and communicate with her but it is always on my terms.

>

>I have always been her favourite child and was treated

>accordingly and have been on a pedastal until I set those

>boundaries. Now, in her opinion, I am selfish, uncaring,

>manipulative, mean spirited and have let her down just like

>everyone else in her life.

>

>I am so saddened to see how many people have been raised by

>BPDs and yet am grateful to know I am not the only one.

>

>Am I in survival mode, " it wasn't that bad, it's not like that,

>she loves you deep down " ? Or can I really feel pity and

>sadness for her without wishing her dead?

>

>I wish all of you healing and peace.

>

>Thank you,

>

>Nell

--

Katrina

August 10, 2010

Nell,

I'm glad you were able to figure out what was wrong with your mother. I too

have difficulty calling my BPD dad, " fada " and my dishrag mom, " nada. " It

helps some of us, but I feel like you--that they did the best they could

within the constrains of their mental illness. Unfortunately that " best they

could " was abusive, and they should have gotten treated for it, or

controlled themselves better.

Also, your statement:

Am I in survival mode, " it wasn't that bad, it's not like that, she loves

you deep down " ? Or can I really feel pity and sadness for her without

wishing her dead?

That sounds exactly how I'm feeling right now. I can't wish my father dead,

although I know that's the only way my mom will ever come out from under his

shadow, and my siblings too. I keep thinking, " it wasn't that bad " but to be

perfectly honest, it was really bad. You can feel pity and sadness without

wishing her dead. I am feeling the same way with my dad. But I have to keep

reminding myself, it REALLY was that bad. Otherwise I'm afraid I'll

backslide and lose all my progress by going back to the victim mode with my

BPD parent.

Yes, it's still survival mode, but you can work on breaking free of that.

And it's good you have compassion and pity for your mother.

Holly

>

> Hello to everyone,

>

> This is my sescond day in this group after accepting the fact that my

> mother is BPD. A new therapist of mine recogized the symptoms from our

> discussions. I have been riding a " high " since the discovery because I

> finally have a reason WHY? Also, that it's not my fault that she is

> miserable.

>

> After reading many posts and looking at the list of abbreviations I know

> why many of you refer to your parents as nada or fada. But I'm not

> comfortable refering to my mother that way as I feel that she did the best

> she could with her limited resources and within the confines of her mental

> illness. Before learning about BPD, I would rage about my mother, say I

> hated her and couldn't wait for her to die to my husband. Now I just feel

> pity and sadness for the lives not lived because of her illness. She put

> herself in circumstances that were less than ideal for her three daughters

> which proved detrimental to us and our futures but she suffered, too.

>

> Am I fooling myself that she did her best and hoped for the best for each

> of us? That she was not and is not conscience of how her behaviour causes

> such pain for me? That her constant manipulations have determined the course

> of my life up until four years ago? Can I believe that she deserves my

> respect as my mother and that I love her but don't have to like her.

>

> Could I be wearing rose coloured glasses by thinking that she wasn't a

> great mother, or the kind of mother I am, or wish I would have had but what

> she did wasn't meant to negatively affect us for years. Or, as my husband

> says, I would have been better off being raised by wolves?

>

> Am I making excuses for her and need to see her for what she is: mean,

> deceiful, manipulative, controlling, overbearing, hurtful, selfish and

> unfaithful person with evil doing as her motive? Or am I accepting of her

> and her illness and have learned how to protect myself. Should I give her a

> break because mental illness has run rampant in our family for 5

> generations?

>

> Bit of backstory: she was married 7 times from 15 to 32. She has three

> daughters, two of which were sexually abused by her last husband. I am the

> youngest of the two. When we disclosed to her she didn't believe us and

> continued to live with him until he died. I have been in therapy and on

> medication since I was 22 and am now 46. Over the last 4 years I have placed

> firm boundaries and force her to live by them. I moved out of the country

> for six months to break her hold on me. I still see her and communicate with

> her but it is always on my terms.

>

> I have always been her favourite child and was treated accordingly and have

> been on a pedastal until I set those boundaries. Now, in her opinion, I am

> selfish, uncaring, manipulative, mean spirited and have let her down just

> like everyone else in her life.

>

> I am so saddened to see how many people have been raised by BPDs and yet am

> grateful to know I am not the only one.

>

> Am I in survival mode, " it wasn't that bad, it's not like that, she loves

> you deep down " ? Or can I really feel pity and sadness for her without

> wishing her dead?

>

> I wish all of you healing and peace.

>

> Thank you,

>

> Nell

>

August 10, 2010

Hi, Nell, and welcome!!

I think these are the same questions we all wrestle with: How much did she mean

it and how much was it just her being a victim of mental illness?

For me, it has helped to use " nada " as a way of 1) affirming her difficulties

and failings with mothering, whether or not she meant it, and 2) making her seem

smaller and, therefore, less powerful over me.

My nada is a queen/witch, and I've wrestled with taking back my power. My

mother was an all-powerful " owner " for most of my life, and I did anything to

please her and make her happy. (Otherwise there was hell to pay and she

extracted that payment with great , terrifying precision). By calling her

" nada, " I felt a little more powerful in the situation. It was a good reminder

that she doesn't own me, nor does she have the right to enslave me for any of

her purposes, and I am far more powerful than her since I'm sane.

No matter what you choose, it's okay. I know there are some folks on this board

that aren't comfortable with the nickname, and that's completely fine. Some of

us only wish we could have a stronger nickname.

And, even if you are " wearing rose colored glasses " I think that's okay. Accept

your new place of healing, and just know more will come if you need it and when

you're ready. This is definitely a process!

Actually, I applaud you for setting boundaries and enforcing them with a BPD

BEFORE you even knew what BPD was!! If you read most of these posts, you'll find

that is practically miraculous. Good for you!! You're very far ahead of the

game.

Blessings,

Karla

>

> Hello to everyone,

>

> This is my sescond day in this group after accepting the fact that my mother

is BPD. A new therapist of mine recogized the symptoms from our discussions. I

have been riding a " high " since the discovery because I finally have a reason

WHY? Also, that it's not my fault that she is miserable.

>

> After reading many posts and looking at the list of abbreviations I know why

many of you refer to your parents as nada or fada. But I'm not comfortable

refering to my mother that way as I feel that she did the best she could with

her limited resources and within the confines of her mental illness. Before

learning about BPD, I would rage about my mother, say I hated her and couldn't

wait for her to die to my husband. Now I just feel pity and sadness for the

lives not lived because of her illness. She put herself in circumstances that

were less than ideal for her three daughters which proved detrimental to us and

our futures but she suffered, too.

>

> Am I fooling myself that she did her best and hoped for the best for each of

us? That she was not and is not conscience of how her behaviour causes such

pain for me? That her constant manipulations have determined the course of my

life up until four years ago? Can I believe that she deserves my respect as my

mother and that I love her but don't have to like her.

>

> Could I be wearing rose coloured glasses by thinking that she wasn't a great

mother, or the kind of mother I am, or wish I would have had but what she did

wasn't meant to negatively affect us for years. Or, as my husband says, I would

have been better off being raised by wolves?

>

> Am I making excuses for her and need to see her for what she is: mean,

deceiful, manipulative, controlling, overbearing, hurtful, selfish and

unfaithful person with evil doing as her motive? Or am I accepting of her and

her illness and have learned how to protect myself. Should I give her a break

because mental illness has run rampant in our family for 5 generations?

>

> Bit of backstory: she was married 7 times from 15 to 32. She has three

daughters, two of which were sexually abused by her last husband. I am the

youngest of the two. When we disclosed to her she didn't believe us and

continued to live with him until he died. I have been in therapy and on

medication since I was 22 and am now 46. Over the last 4 years I have placed

firm boundaries and force her to live by them. I moved out of the country for

six months to break her hold on me. I still see her and communicate with her

but it is always on my terms.

>

> I have always been her favourite child and was treated accordingly and have

been on a pedastal until I set those boundaries. Now, in her opinion, I am

selfish, uncaring, manipulative, mean spirited and have let her down just like

everyone else in her life.

>

> I am so saddened to see how many people have been raised by BPDs and yet am

grateful to know I am not the only one.

>

> Am I in survival mode, " it wasn't that bad, it's not like that, she loves you

deep down " ? Or can I really feel pity and sadness for her without wishing her

dead?

>

> I wish all of you healing and peace.

>

> Thank you,

>

> Nell

>

August 11, 2010

Thank you all so much for the validation of understanding what I am feeling and

giving me such eloquent insights into this process. I now understand about

using the shorthand for the bpd in your life and it makes sense to me.

You all have given me much to think about and the rabib dog analogy was spot

on....I have a great love of dogs and have participated in rescue for several

years. In fact, I always say I like dogs more than most people. : ) So it spoke

to my heart.

I really agree that she may have done her best but it was far from being good

enough. So a little credit for going through the motions of being a caring and

loving mother but I need to let her shoulder the blame for sacrificing the lives

of her daughters for her own personal wants and needs.

I think, after joining this group, that there may be a shift in my perspective

and it may be the catalyst to move me pass this feeling of acceptance. I now

see there is still much work to be done. Anger is very scary for me so it could

be acceptance and forgiveness is safer.

I look forward to making this journey with you and gaining the wisdom and

perspective that is apparent in each of your posts.

Gratefully,

Nell

ltChildren1 , Christian wrote:

>

> Hello Nell,

> Glad you are here.Â For me Nada's diagnosis of BPD was a relief.Â It has

been a year or pain and growth for me.Â It has given me freedom to leave the

FOG (fear, obligation, and guilt)Â I lived with for 58 years.Â Yes, she is

mentally ill, but I don't and won't be miserable because of her anymore.Â I am

getting my life back.Â It is a process, but for me a worthy one.

> Â /Illinois

August 11, 2010

it really depends on your parent. My nada is a nasty human being...with

out without BPD she's plain evil !! she makes the choice to be very nasty to

her children and husband when he was alive, and yet she's so nice and sweet

to others outside the family !! to neighbors and their children, they think

she's a wonderful lovely human...so I'd say it's not always the BPD...I

think underneath the BPD my nada is a nasty bully who loves to manipulate,

guilt and attack her children. My nada always took the easy way

out...whatever would take the least effort on her part is what she did for

her family. To others not in her family, she goes way out of her way to

help and show kindness...but to her children, they get whatever is left

over...and many times we've had our things taken from us and given to

others...to make nada look well in others eyes. Her children and husband

always come last..

Jackie

>

> Am I fooling myself that she did her best and hoped for the best for each

> of us? That she was not and is not conscience of how her behaviour causes

> such pain for me? That her constant manipulations have determined the

> course of my life up until four years ago? Can I believe that she

> deserves my respect as my mother and that I love her but don't have to

> like her.

>

> Could I be wearing rose coloured glasses by thinking that she wasn't a

> great mother, or the kind of mother I am, or wish I would have had but

> what she did wasn't meant to negatively affect us for years. Or, as my

> husband says, I would have been better off being raised by wolves?

>

August 12, 2010

I think as KO's we are so used to having our reality dictated to us and changed

at whim that it is important for us to honor what we feel and if you feel she

did 'the best she could' then no one can interpret your feelings but you. Just

the fact that you have to ask permission to feel the way you feel is indicative

of damage. Really I think it's important to honor what you feel, as long as you

don't shame other KO's or people with similar circumstances who feel

differently. Like a friend of mine once said that she felt riled every time

someone told her that her parents did 'the best they could'; she said 'no they

didn't do the best they could, and in fact, they did a lousy job'. But that is

unique to her experience, and everyone is different. What's important i think is

to honor ALL your feelings as they come up, which is the opposite of what we

learn as KO's. And really feel them and experience them, even if tomorrow you

feel differently, and the next day you are back in 'best she could' mode. Since

BPD people are walking contradictions it's no surprise our feelings about them

can be as well.