Re: Nada and Terrorism

[Guest guest]

Annie,

I think we had the same fadas! You described all of the characteristics that

have been driving me crazy- the fact that fada is/was an adult and should have

protected his children. The fact that he barely handled the stress that affected

him, and that was good enough and he didn't try to handle the stress that

affected his kids.

I've always known nada was crazy- I just recently have been able to put names,

labels, and explanations to my experiences. I think the hardest part about

learning about BPD is the ancillary details, since we all have at least

unconsciously known our nadas are crazy. It's been so much harder to now see how

much fada enabled everything. It was easier to see him as an uninvolved parent

who wasn't liable for our damage. It's so much harder to see that we really were

screwed on so many levels with our families .

>

> The topic of the enabling dad's mood paralleling the nada's mood got me to

thinking about my own situation.

>

> My dad would usually just leave the house when nada would escalate her

carping, critical attacks, but sometimes she'd succeed in goading him into

defending himself and fighting back (verbally only, he never hit anybody).

Listening to them yelling at each other was stressful for Sister and me. We'd

leave the house if we could, go play at a friends house, or shut our doors to

try and ignore it. After dad retired from work, though, he was stuck at home

24-7 with his wife and ended up drinking himself to death in rather short order.

>

> Yet, he was very consistent in his defense of nada in relation to us kids. I

can count only three times in my entire life that my dad intervened in one of my

nada's screaming, out-of-control tirades of rage against me. Granted, she

usually indulged in these outrageous fits of anger when he wasn't around, but he

saw enough of them to know how she treated us and usually did nothing.

>

> All I can guess is that he was clueless as to how deeply damaging being

emotionally and physically abused is to a child. He, as a fellow adult in a

chosen relationship, was on a equal power level with his wife. He could

physically leave when she became abusive. He could hit her back (although he

never did) but bottom line: although the emotional abuse she inflicted was very

stressful for him (it was upsetting, angering, hurtful and ego-deflating) it was

*not traumatizing*. Not terrifying: he had the power/status/ability to defend

himself.

>

> However, my Sister and I as children were in a totally, abjectly powerless

position, unable to face down our abuser and make her stop. I have no doubt

that to even have attempted such a act would have enraged nada to the point of

doing us life-threatening physical injury or even gotten us killed. We as

little children were literally at the mercy of a mentally ill, out-of-control

adult who had dissociated and had the power of life or death over us.

>

> The nearest equivalent would be finding yourself alone, but suddenly

confronted by another adult who is enraged at you and waving a loaded gun at

you, threatening to pump you full of bullets. The sheer terror and trauma level

is that high for a child at the mercy of an enraged adult (particularly when

that adult has demonstrated countless times that she will beat the crap out of

you even if she chooses not to kill you.)

>

> No wonder both Sister and I grew up with many symptoms of Post Traumatic

Stress Disorder (and with repressed, unexpressed rage ourselves over the

injustice.) We grew up in the equivalent of a war zone where a terrorist attack

could happen at any moment.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Exactly. When the enabling parent looks the other way and allows the mentally

ill spouse to repeatedly, continually act out and mistreat the kids, its exactly

the same thing as saying out loud, " Its OK for you to be screamed at and hit;

your mother has my permission to do this. I'm not going to stop her. "

Dad might as well have handed nada the belt to beat us with and held us down

while she did it.

The weak, uncaring, enabling parent is just as guilty as the

personality-disordered abusive parent; its a tag-team effort.

It also seems to me to be another aspect of bullying behavior and the bystanders

who will just passively watch someone being brutalized right in front of them

and do nothing to stop it. Parental bullying, peer bullying, and passive,

enabling bystanders are a sad, sad commentary on the apparent lack of morality,

ethics and personal responsibility in our culture. In my opinion.

Ahh...! If only there were lawyers who specialize in representing children

directly, and would advertise their services during children's TV programming,

in schools and on the Internet. " Hey, Kids! Do your parents beat the crap out

of you with sticks, belts and other objects? That's called " criminal assault

and battery " ! Does your new Daddy ask you to kiss his private parts? That's

called " criminal child abuse " ! Did Mommy leave you locked alone in the house

all week to take care of your baby brother while she went away somewhere? That's

called " criminal neglect " , kids, and you have the right to legal representation

in court! Call your " Uncle Lawyer " , kids: he'll do the job! "

-Annie

>

> Annie,

>

> I think we had the same fadas! You described all of the characteristics that

have been driving me crazy- the fact that fada is/was an adult and should have

protected his children. The fact that he barely handled the stress that affected

him, and that was good enough and he didn't try to handle the stress that

affected his kids.

>

> I've always known nada was crazy- I just recently have been able to put names,

labels, and explanations to my experiences. I think the hardest part about

learning about BPD is the ancillary details, since we all have at least

unconsciously known our nadas are crazy. It's been so much harder to now see how

much fada enabled everything. It was easier to see him as an uninvolved parent

who wasn't liable for our damage. It's so much harder to see that we really were

screwed on so many levels with our families .

>

>

[Guest guest]

My fada was the same way. He scheduled his work hours around the time nada was

home, so he would leave in the late morning after nada (so he didn't have to see

her in the morning) and get home really late, so he only had to deal with her

for an hour or two each day. All of this drove her nuts, and my sister and I had

to deal with the fallout. When he was home, he was often the object of her

rages, and he (very, very rarely) would stand up for himself. But when he got

angry, which wasn't often, all hell would break loose. His tirades were just as

bad as nada's, which would anger her so much that she would rage even more. They

would yell and fight for hours, which would inevitably lead to nada in tears and

fada feeling guilty and apologizing profusely for some nonexistent

transgression.

But he never, not once in my memory, defended me against nada. No matter what

the situation or the scenario, he would just ignore it. I can remember a couple

of time he defended my sister, weakly and ineffectively, but it's the fact that

he tried for her and not for me that always bothered me. Even today, she has the

ability to have a quasi-normal relationship with our father, but he and I simply

can't have a civil conversation.

It drives me up a wall. He clearly KNEW that something was wrong with her, and

that she would rage or go on tirades constantly while he wasn't home. But

somehow that didn't matter to him. HE was " safe " most of the time, and that was

enough for him. I hate that he didn't care enough or wasn't strong enough to

protect his own children from this monster.

You're right, it was a war zone. But on top of the random terrorist attacks,

your commanding officer went AWOL. We were children, unable to take care of

ourselves or defend ourselves, but we were left to survive to the best of our

ability in this hostile environment with no help from the two people who were

supposed to take care of us always.

-Rae

>

> The topic of the enabling dad's mood paralleling the nada's mood got me to

thinking about my own situation.

>

> My dad would usually just leave the house when nada would escalate her

carping, critical attacks, but sometimes she'd succeed in goading him into

defending himself and fighting back (verbally only, he never hit anybody).

Listening to them yelling at each other was stressful for Sister and me. We'd

leave the house if we could, go play at a friends house, or shut our doors to

try and ignore it. After dad retired from work, though, he was stuck at home

24-7 with his wife and ended up drinking himself to death in rather short order.

>

> Yet, he was very consistent in his defense of nada in relation to us kids. I

can count only three times in my entire life that my dad intervened in one of my

nada's screaming, out-of-control tirades of rage against me. Granted, she

usually indulged in these outrageous fits of anger when he wasn't around, but he

saw enough of them to know how she treated us and usually did nothing.

>

> All I can guess is that he was clueless as to how deeply damaging being

emotionally and physically abused is to a child. He, as a fellow adult in a

chosen relationship, was on a equal power level with his wife. He could

physically leave when she became abusive. He could hit her back (although he

never did) but bottom line: although the emotional abuse she inflicted was very

stressful for him (it was upsetting, angering, hurtful and ego-deflating) it was

*not traumatizing*. Not terrifying: he had the power/status/ability to defend

himself.

>

> However, my Sister and I as children were in a totally, abjectly powerless

position, unable to face down our abuser and make her stop. I have no doubt

that to even have attempted such a act would have enraged nada to the point of

doing us life-threatening physical injury or even gotten us killed. We as

little children were literally at the mercy of a mentally ill, out-of-control

adult who had dissociated and had the power of life or death over us.

>

> The nearest equivalent would be finding yourself alone, but suddenly

confronted by another adult who is enraged at you and waving a loaded gun at

you, threatening to pump you full of bullets. The sheer terror and trauma level

is that high for a child at the mercy of an enraged adult (particularly when

that adult has demonstrated countless times that she will beat the crap out of

you even if she chooses not to kill you.)

>

> No wonder both Sister and I grew up with many symptoms of Post Traumatic

Stress Disorder (and with repressed, unexpressed rage ourselves over the

injustice.) We grew up in the equivalent of a war zone where a terrorist attack

could happen at any moment.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

My fada was the same way. He scheduled his work hours around the time nada was

home, so he would leave in the late morning after nada (so he didn't have to see

her in the morning) and get home really late, so he only had to deal with her

for an hour or two each day. All of this drove her nuts, and my sister and I had

to deal with the fallout. When he was home, he was often the object of her

rages, and he (very, very rarely) would stand up for himself. But when he got

angry, which wasn't often, all hell would break loose. His tirades were just as

bad as nada's, which would anger her so much that she would rage even more. They

would yell and fight for hours, which would inevitably lead to nada in tears and

fada feeling guilty and apologizing profusely for some nonexistent

transgression.

But he never, not once in my memory, defended me against nada. No matter what

the situation or the scenario, he would just ignore it. I can remember a couple

of time he defended my sister, weakly and ineffectively, but it's the fact that

he tried for her and not for me that always bothered me. Even today, she has the

ability to have a quasi-normal relationship with our father, but he and I simply

can't have a civil conversation.

It drives me up a wall. He clearly KNEW that something was wrong with her, and

that she would rage or go on tirades constantly while he wasn't home. But

somehow that didn't matter to him. HE was " safe " most of the time, and that was

enough for him. I hate that he didn't care enough or wasn't strong enough to

protect his own children from this monster.

You're right, it was a war zone. But on top of the random terrorist attacks,

your commanding officer went AWOL. We were children, unable to take care of

ourselves or defend ourselves, but we were left to survive to the best of our

ability in this hostile environment with no help from the two people who were

supposed to take care of us always.

-Rae

>

> The topic of the enabling dad's mood paralleling the nada's mood got me to

thinking about my own situation.

>

> My dad would usually just leave the house when nada would escalate her

carping, critical attacks, but sometimes she'd succeed in goading him into

defending himself and fighting back (verbally only, he never hit anybody).

Listening to them yelling at each other was stressful for Sister and me. We'd

leave the house if we could, go play at a friends house, or shut our doors to

try and ignore it. After dad retired from work, though, he was stuck at home

24-7 with his wife and ended up drinking himself to death in rather short order.

>

> Yet, he was very consistent in his defense of nada in relation to us kids. I

can count only three times in my entire life that my dad intervened in one of my

nada's screaming, out-of-control tirades of rage against me. Granted, she

usually indulged in these outrageous fits of anger when he wasn't around, but he

saw enough of them to know how she treated us and usually did nothing.

>

> All I can guess is that he was clueless as to how deeply damaging being

emotionally and physically abused is to a child. He, as a fellow adult in a

chosen relationship, was on a equal power level with his wife. He could

physically leave when she became abusive. He could hit her back (although he

never did) but bottom line: although the emotional abuse she inflicted was very

stressful for him (it was upsetting, angering, hurtful and ego-deflating) it was

*not traumatizing*. Not terrifying: he had the power/status/ability to defend

himself.

>

> However, my Sister and I as children were in a totally, abjectly powerless

position, unable to face down our abuser and make her stop. I have no doubt

that to even have attempted such a act would have enraged nada to the point of

doing us life-threatening physical injury or even gotten us killed. We as

little children were literally at the mercy of a mentally ill, out-of-control

adult who had dissociated and had the power of life or death over us.

>

> The nearest equivalent would be finding yourself alone, but suddenly

confronted by another adult who is enraged at you and waving a loaded gun at

you, threatening to pump you full of bullets. The sheer terror and trauma level

is that high for a child at the mercy of an enraged adult (particularly when

that adult has demonstrated countless times that she will beat the crap out of

you even if she chooses not to kill you.)

>

> No wonder both Sister and I grew up with many symptoms of Post Traumatic

Stress Disorder (and with repressed, unexpressed rage ourselves over the

injustice.) We grew up in the equivalent of a war zone where a terrorist attack

could happen at any moment.

>

> -Annie

>