Re: the 5 year old. inside....(stealth nada aunt)

[Guest guest]

, I'd be interested what happened. Or I could search for your old post

if you remember around when you posted it?

I thought my aunt was on my side too - it was and still is a shock to me that

she is not. Her role in the FOO has shifted to trying to be some kind enforcer

to try to get me to " do my duty " by my nada and subtly undermine my attempts to

be happy away from her.

>

> I agree here. I also have an aunt that I always thought was well grounded

> and sane. I thought she was on my side so to speak. After the last blow up

> with nada she became just like nada. I have posted the story before but

> will again if you need me to.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, I'd be interested what happened. Or I could search for your old post

if you remember around when you posted it?

I thought my aunt was on my side too - it was and still is a shock to me that

she is not. Her role in the FOO has shifted to trying to be some kind enforcer

to try to get me to " do my duty " by my nada and subtly undermine my attempts to

be happy away from her.

>

> I agree here. I also have an aunt that I always thought was well grounded

> and sane. I thought she was on my side so to speak. After the last blow up

> with nada she became just like nada. I have posted the story before but

> will again if you need me to.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, I'd be interested what happened. Or I could search for your old post

if you remember around when you posted it?

I thought my aunt was on my side too - it was and still is a shock to me that

she is not. Her role in the FOO has shifted to trying to be some kind enforcer

to try to get me to " do my duty " by my nada and subtly undermine my attempts to

be happy away from her.

>

> I agree here. I also have an aunt that I always thought was well grounded

> and sane. I thought she was on my side so to speak. After the last blow up

> with nada she became just like nada. I have posted the story before but

> will again if you need me to.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The most painful part of going no contact with my abusive parents is that I also

lost those extended family members that I love and care for. They don't want to

hear anything bad about my parents or my childhood. Perhaps they feel that I am

forcing them to take sides, and they have chosen to take my parents side.

Perhaps hearing about the abuse I experienced reminds them of abuse that they

experienced but don't emotionally want to acknowledge.

Like you , I lost my entire FOO this way. This is tragic and I

understand your grief. The only suggestion that I have is to create a new

family. I now have a spouse and I spend holidays with my spouse's family.

Spending time with other people that understand my background, like the people

in this on-line support group, also helps. You are not alone.

>

> I can post it, last night was just late and I was not up for a long post.

>

> All my life I believed that nada's oldest sister was the most stable.

> Things with nada really began to escalate when I had my first child. Nada

> felt entitled to my child(now children) and showed no responsibility. She

> demands to do what she wants with older daughter(she has only met the

> younger daughter once). There are many many issues but for now we'll just

> shorten it to safety issues and undermining me. My aunt that I felt close

> to lives out of state so she does not see all this first hand. Once nada

> was acting out at a family function when she was here visiting. Nada was

> complaining to aunt how horrible I treat her. Aunt asked me in private what

> was going on. I explained that nada has been asked many times not to allow

> Daughter to put her metal keychain and dogtags in her mount but kept it up

> right in front of me. Later, at dinner, nada did it in front of aunt and

> aunt put her foot down, loudly,in front of everyone to stop giving it to

> daughter. That solidified for me that she was reasonable and cared for me

> and daughter. Time went on and nada's behavior continued to escalate.

> Right after the birth of daughter2, in fact the day after I left the

> hospital, nada gave me a three page letter full of FOG and an ultimatum.

> Nada said she was tired of hubby and I treating her like crap and basically

> demanded that we bring Daughters to her house so she can see them on her

> terms. We refused and thus began 4 months of NC. Other family(not aunt)

> pushed and pushed for me to call nada. I held my guns that nada must make

> contact and be willing to " play by the rules " . Nada finally called and left

> a calm message. I returned the call. Nada DEMANDED to see the girls. I

> calmly explained tat we will first need to discuss new boundaries on how to

> behave around the girls and towards me. Nada blew up screaming at the top

> of her lungs. She demanded that she has never done anything wrong, it is

> her right to have the girls unsupervised, she can take us to court to get

> unsupervised visitation, and that I ruined her life. I hung up and we have

> had NC since.

>

> Several weeks later Aunt called and once again asked me what was going on.

> I calmly explained that nada was demanding to have the girls unsupervised

> but could not even behave in a reasonable manner in my home right in front

> of me. I detailed all the worst safety issues. Aunt agreed that she cannot

> put the girls in danger BUT that it was my responsibility to fix the

> situation. She handed me all the typical lines that this is just how nada

> is, she is loud but will never hurt the girls(as if screaming at me in front

> of them is not harmful?), and that I was spoiled by nada and therefore nada

> is automatically a good mother. She went on to say that I am depriving my

> children of a grandma, depriving my nada of her grandkids, and going to hell

> for not honoring my mother. The most hurtful thing she said was that nada

> had every right to be at my 2nd birth, even though she treated me terribly

> during both births(one of nadas complaints in the letter). Aunt told me she

> read the horrible letter and there was nothing wron with it.

>

> Aunt then asked if I would agree to work this out with nada with a

> mediator. I refused stating that nada made in perfectly clear on the phone

> that she feels 100 percent right and therefore there was no room for

> compromising. Also, that I have already given as much as I am comfortable

> with and at this point nada is being unreasonable. Aunt pushed and I

> caved. Aunt called nada and nada agreed ONLY if aunt(who at this point

> obviously agrees with nada) was the mediator. Aunt called me back with this

> offer. I refused and explained that whether or not aunt see it, nada is

> choosing the person that she feels is on her side. I explained that nada is

> not looking for mediation but is expecting that they will gang up on me and

> convince me that I am wrong. Aunt disagreed and promised to not get

> involved, just to be there to keep us from yelling. I continued to refuse

> and would agree only to a third party mediator. That was the last time I

> spoke to ANYONE on nada's side of the family.

>

> I was crushed that the only person in the FOO that I felt close to was

> acting like this. I never saw this coming. It started the grieving for me

> all over again because now instead of losing a mother I felt as if I lost my

> entire family.

>

> There it is. Sorry that it is rambling and poorly punctuated. It's 5am now

> and I have to get ready for class

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

((((((()))))))

You are to be honored for holding your ground the way you did, and protecting

your children. Wow. You have a backbone of steel, girl!

Of course you are right. You offered to let your mother spend time with your

children in your presence but she refused. And you are also right that if your

mother treats you with disrespect and even contempt in front of your children,

that is very bewildering and damaging and corrupting to them.

And yes it is so heartbreaking when doing the right thing, being strong, and

protecting yourself and your children from a dysfunctional person gets you

excommunicated from your family of origin. It means the dysfunction is deeply

embedded in your foo, and that is sad. I'm so sorry you're having to go through

that mourning period again, for the aunt who betrayed your trust; it is sad.

Keep posting when you can.

-Annie

>

> I can post it, last night was just late and I was not up for a long post.

>

> All my life I believed that nada's oldest sister was the most stable.

> Things with nada really began to escalate when I had my first child. Nada

> felt entitled to my child(now children) and showed no responsibility. She

> demands to do what she wants with older daughter(she has only met the

> younger daughter once). There are many many issues but for now we'll just

> shorten it to safety issues and undermining me. My aunt that I felt close

> to lives out of state so she does not see all this first hand. Once nada

> was acting out at a family function when she was here visiting. Nada was

> complaining to aunt how horrible I treat her. Aunt asked me in private what

> was going on. I explained that nada has been asked many times not to allow

> Daughter to put her metal keychain and dogtags in her mount but kept it up

> right in front of me. Later, at dinner, nada did it in front of aunt and

> aunt put her foot down, loudly,in front of everyone to stop giving it to

> daughter. That solidified for me that she was reasonable and cared for me

> and daughter. Time went on and nada's behavior continued to escalate.

> Right after the birth of daughter2, in fact the day after I left the

> hospital, nada gave me a three page letter full of FOG and an ultimatum.

> Nada said she was tired of hubby and I treating her like crap and basically

> demanded that we bring Daughters to her house so she can see them on her

> terms. We refused and thus began 4 months of NC. Other family(not aunt)

> pushed and pushed for me to call nada. I held my guns that nada must make

> contact and be willing to " play by the rules " . Nada finally called and left

> a calm message. I returned the call. Nada DEMANDED to see the girls. I

> calmly explained tat we will first need to discuss new boundaries on how to

> behave around the girls and towards me. Nada blew up screaming at the top

> of her lungs. She demanded that she has never done anything wrong, it is

> her right to have the girls unsupervised, she can take us to court to get

> unsupervised visitation, and that I ruined her life. I hung up and we have

> had NC since.

>

> Several weeks later Aunt called and once again asked me what was going on.

> I calmly explained that nada was demanding to have the girls unsupervised

> but could not even behave in a reasonable manner in my home right in front

> of me. I detailed all the worst safety issues. Aunt agreed that she cannot

> put the girls in danger BUT that it was my responsibility to fix the

> situation. She handed me all the typical lines that this is just how nada

> is, she is loud but will never hurt the girls(as if screaming at me in front

> of them is not harmful?), and that I was spoiled by nada and therefore nada

> is automatically a good mother. She went on to say that I am depriving my

> children of a grandma, depriving my nada of her grandkids, and going to hell

> for not honoring my mother. The most hurtful thing she said was that nada

> had every right to be at my 2nd birth, even though she treated me terribly

> during both births(one of nadas complaints in the letter). Aunt told me she

> read the horrible letter and there was nothing wron with it.

>

> Aunt then asked if I would agree to work this out with nada with a

> mediator. I refused stating that nada made in perfectly clear on the phone

> that she feels 100 percent right and therefore there was no room for

> compromising. Also, that I have already given as much as I am comfortable

> with and at this point nada is being unreasonable. Aunt pushed and I

> caved. Aunt called nada and nada agreed ONLY if aunt(who at this point

> obviously agrees with nada) was the mediator. Aunt called me back with this

> offer. I refused and explained that whether or not aunt see it, nada is

> choosing the person that she feels is on her side. I explained that nada is

> not looking for mediation but is expecting that they will gang up on me and

> convince me that I am wrong. Aunt disagreed and promised to not get

> involved, just to be there to keep us from yelling. I continued to refuse

> and would agree only to a third party mediator. That was the last time I

> spoke to ANYONE on nada's side of the family.

>

> I was crushed that the only person in the FOO that I felt close to was

> acting like this. I never saw this coming. It started the grieving for me

> all over again because now instead of losing a mother I felt as if I lost my

> entire family.

>

> There it is. Sorry that it is rambling and poorly punctuated. It's 5am now

> and I have to get ready for class

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

- Your mom AND aunt are both shoveling the nonsense with bulldozers.

Your mom has no " right " to her grandchildren. Grandparents rights are sometimes

considered when there's a divorce or other breakup of the parents (or if the

government gets involved in custody). Otherwise, the kids' mom and dad decide

what's what for their kids. As long as your home is stable and your kids are

OK, there's not a damned thing your mom can do, legally.

We went through this when we were making our wills - I was very concerned that

if something happened to both of us, my son would wind up in the hands of my

Nada. The lawyer explained all this to me - and we made sure to include

language specifically excluding her from custody or visitation, should my son

have to go live with either of the two guardians we selected. (And we selected

people who would not get sucked in by her manipulation, then gave them strict

instructions about keeping him safe from unsupervised contact with Nada.)

Nobody - NOBODY - gets to call you up and harangue you about visiting your

children. Trying to dictate the terms of visitation is beyond ridiculous. You

are their mom - their number one guardian against dysfunction and mistreatment,

and their most important teacher about what it means to have self-respect and

dignity. You set the terms, case closed. No need to explain or apologize, or

to listen to your Nada or aunt go on and on about it. If they can't play by the

rules you set, the game's over.

As to losing your family - no, you HAVE your family. Your kids are your family.

The others USED to be your family. Their behavior and decisions will determine

whether they get to be anywhere near your family circle now. Raging,

threatening, manipulating, and gross violation of your household's safety rules

- means that further contact is declined.

I tell you, I went through feelings of guilt and worry about my mother - up

until my son was born. Then, just like giving up caffeine and alcohol while I

was pregnant, the idea of putting my mom's well-being over that of my son just

seemed impossible. It wasn't even an issue. She might be able to mess with me,

but when it comes to messing with my kid - it's a non-starter.

Next time Nada or your aunt start this crap, just hang up and go do something

fun with your kids.

> >

> > I can post it, last night was just late and I was not up for a long post.

> >

> > All my life I believed that nada's oldest sister was the most stable.

> > Things with nada really began to escalate when I had my first child. Nada

> > felt entitled to my child(now children) and showed no responsibility. She

> > demands to do what she wants with older daughter(she has only met the

> > younger daughter once). There are many many issues but for now we'll just

> > shorten it to safety issues and undermining me. My aunt that I felt close

> > to lives out of state so she does not see all this first hand. Once nada

> > was acting out at a family function when she was here visiting. Nada was

> > complaining to aunt how horrible I treat her. Aunt asked me in private what

> > was going on. I explained that nada has been asked many times not to allow

> > Daughter to put her metal keychain and dogtags in her mount but kept it up

> > right in front of me. Later, at dinner, nada did it in front of aunt and

> > aunt put her foot down, loudly,in front of everyone to stop giving it to

> > daughter. That solidified for me that she was reasonable and cared for me

> > and daughter. Time went on and nada's behavior continued to escalate.

> > Right after the birth of daughter2, in fact the day after I left the

> > hospital, nada gave me a three page letter full of FOG and an ultimatum.

> > Nada said she was tired of hubby and I treating her like crap and basically

> > demanded that we bring Daughters to her house so she can see them on her

> > terms. We refused and thus began 4 months of NC. Other family(not aunt)

> > pushed and pushed for me to call nada. I held my guns that nada must make

> > contact and be willing to " play by the rules " . Nada finally called and left

> > a calm message. I returned the call. Nada DEMANDED to see the girls. I

> > calmly explained tat we will first need to discuss new boundaries on how to

> > behave around the girls and towards me. Nada blew up screaming at the top

> > of her lungs. She demanded that she has never done anything wrong, it is

> > her right to have the girls unsupervised, she can take us to court to get

> > unsupervised visitation, and that I ruined her life. I hung up and we have

> > had NC since.

> >

> > Several weeks later Aunt called and once again asked me what was going on.

> > I calmly explained that nada was demanding to have the girls unsupervised

> > but could not even behave in a reasonable manner in my home right in front

> > of me. I detailed all the worst safety issues. Aunt agreed that she cannot

> > put the girls in danger BUT that it was my responsibility to fix the

> > situation. She handed me all the typical lines that this is just how nada

> > is, she is loud but will never hurt the girls(as if screaming at me in front

> > of them is not harmful?), and that I was spoiled by nada and therefore nada

> > is automatically a good mother. She went on to say that I am depriving my

> > children of a grandma, depriving my nada of her grandkids, and going to hell

> > for not honoring my mother. The most hurtful thing she said was that nada

> > had every right to be at my 2nd birth, even though she treated me terribly

> > during both births(one of nadas complaints in the letter). Aunt told me she

> > read the horrible letter and there was nothing wron with it.

> >

> > Aunt then asked if I would agree to work this out with nada with a

> > mediator. I refused stating that nada made in perfectly clear on the phone

> > that she feels 100 percent right and therefore there was no room for

> > compromising. Also, that I have already given as much as I am comfortable

> > with and at this point nada is being unreasonable. Aunt pushed and I

> > caved. Aunt called nada and nada agreed ONLY if aunt(who at this point

> > obviously agrees with nada) was the mediator. Aunt called me back with this

> > offer. I refused and explained that whether or not aunt see it, nada is

> > choosing the person that she feels is on her side. I explained that nada is

> > not looking for mediation but is expecting that they will gang up on me and

> > convince me that I am wrong. Aunt disagreed and promised to not get

> > involved, just to be there to keep us from yelling. I continued to refuse

> > and would agree only to a third party mediator. That was the last time I

> > spoke to ANYONE on nada's side of the family.

> >

> > I was crushed that the only person in the FOO that I felt close to was

> > acting like this. I never saw this coming. It started the grieving for me

> > all over again because now instead of losing a mother I felt as if I lost my

> > entire family.

> >

> > There it is. Sorry that it is rambling and poorly punctuated. It's 5am now

> > and I have to get ready for class

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

- excellent advice!

I have a different situation with my FOO. My nada completely alienated her

brothers, who are " true evil " in her mind. I never really knew my uncles, aunts

and first cousins because nada told me it would be completely disloyal of me to

have a relationship with them. It wasn't until I was in my late 30's early 40's

that I decided to have my own relationship with nada's FOO. Turns out, they've

been wonderful to me and completely understand that nada is crazy. Two of my

cousins and I are now very close and were shocked at how much we had in common.

I missed knowing them as a kid and young adult, but although we are not super

close, we are enjoying each other as adults.

So Malinda, maybe some sort of relationship with your aunt is possible - you can

always feel out the situation and see what her response is. Chances are if your

nada thinks she is evil, she is probably not. Make your own decision.

-

> > >

> > > I can post it, last night was just late and I was not up for a long post.

> > >

> > > All my life I believed that nada's oldest sister was the most stable.

> > > Things with nada really began to escalate when I had my first child. Nada

> > > felt entitled to my child(now children) and showed no responsibility. She

> > > demands to do what she wants with older daughter(she has only met the

> > > younger daughter once). There are many many issues but for now we'll just

> > > shorten it to safety issues and undermining me. My aunt that I felt close

> > > to lives out of state so she does not see all this first hand. Once nada

> > > was acting out at a family function when she was here visiting. Nada was

> > > complaining to aunt how horrible I treat her. Aunt asked me in private

what

> > > was going on. I explained that nada has been asked many times not to

allow

> > > Daughter to put her metal keychain and dogtags in her mount but kept it up

> > > right in front of me. Later, at dinner, nada did it in front of aunt and

> > > aunt put her foot down, loudly,in front of everyone to stop giving it to

> > > daughter. That solidified for me that she was reasonable and cared for me

> > > and daughter. Time went on and nada's behavior continued to escalate.

> > > Right after the birth of daughter2, in fact the day after I left the

> > > hospital, nada gave me a three page letter full of FOG and an ultimatum.

> > > Nada said she was tired of hubby and I treating her like crap and

basically

> > > demanded that we bring Daughters to her house so she can see them on her

> > > terms. We refused and thus began 4 months of NC. Other family(not aunt)

> > > pushed and pushed for me to call nada. I held my guns that nada must make

> > > contact and be willing to " play by the rules " . Nada finally called and

left

> > > a calm message. I returned the call. Nada DEMANDED to see the girls. I

> > > calmly explained tat we will first need to discuss new boundaries on how

to

> > > behave around the girls and towards me. Nada blew up screaming at the top

> > > of her lungs. She demanded that she has never done anything wrong, it is

> > > her right to have the girls unsupervised, she can take us to court to get

> > > unsupervised visitation, and that I ruined her life. I hung up and we

have

> > > had NC since.

> > >

> > > Several weeks later Aunt called and once again asked me what was going on.

> > > I calmly explained that nada was demanding to have the girls unsupervised

> > > but could not even behave in a reasonable manner in my home right in front

> > > of me. I detailed all the worst safety issues. Aunt agreed that she

cannot

> > > put the girls in danger BUT that it was my responsibility to fix the

> > > situation. She handed me all the typical lines that this is just how nada

> > > is, she is loud but will never hurt the girls(as if screaming at me in

front

> > > of them is not harmful?), and that I was spoiled by nada and therefore

nada

> > > is automatically a good mother. She went on to say that I am depriving my

> > > children of a grandma, depriving my nada of her grandkids, and going to

hell

> > > for not honoring my mother. The most hurtful thing she said was that nada

> > > had every right to be at my 2nd birth, even though she treated me terribly

> > > during both births(one of nadas complaints in the letter). Aunt told me

she

> > > read the horrible letter and there was nothing wron with it.

> > >

> > > Aunt then asked if I would agree to work this out with nada with a

> > > mediator. I refused stating that nada made in perfectly clear on the

phone

> > > that she feels 100 percent right and therefore there was no room for

> > > compromising. Also, that I have already given as much as I am comfortable

> > > with and at this point nada is being unreasonable. Aunt pushed and I

> > > caved. Aunt called nada and nada agreed ONLY if aunt(who at this point

> > > obviously agrees with nada) was the mediator. Aunt called me back with

this

> > > offer. I refused and explained that whether or not aunt see it, nada is

> > > choosing the person that she feels is on her side. I explained that nada

is

> > > not looking for mediation but is expecting that they will gang up on me

and

> > > convince me that I am wrong. Aunt disagreed and promised to not get

> > > involved, just to be there to keep us from yelling. I continued to refuse

> > > and would agree only to a third party mediator. That was the last time I

> > > spoke to ANYONE on nada's side of the family.

> > >

> > > I was crushed that the only person in the FOO that I felt close to was

> > > acting like this. I never saw this coming. It started the grieving for

me

> > > all over again because now instead of losing a mother I felt as if I lost

my

> > > entire family.

> > >

> > > There it is. Sorry that it is rambling and poorly punctuated. It's 5am

now

> > > and I have to get ready for class

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >