did you have an identity separate from your parents?

[Guest guest]

Hello All-

I was thinking over my childhood today, and I remember how much my parents

seemed to over-identify with me. At least, with what they saw as my good traits

(my bad traits were my own evil business).

For example:

If I did well at school, it was " of course, you are smart like me " .

If I won an art contest, it was " of course, I have a lot of artistic talent and

you take after me. I could have been a painter if I wanted to " .

If I wrote a story " this is good. This really shows how well I would have done

if I'd pursued a writing career. "

Maybe to someone not familiar with BPD this might sound complimentary, but it

came across as creepy and invasive.

Sometimes they would catalog out loud what they saw as my personality traits and

assign them to themselves or each other. " Like this you get from me, that from

dad, this from me, that from dad, this from me. "

If I said something like " that's not how I see myself " or " actually, I'm not

really like that " they'd laugh or grow angry. My BPD dad would say over and over

" I know you better than you know yourself " .

My dad told me several times that I was " him, reincarnated " that we " shared the

same soul " .

The thought that I might want my own soul didn't seem to occur to them.

Actually (rueful laughter) it still doesn't.

Did anyone else experience this?

I think I was 18 before I had the epiphany that I wasn't just made up of bits of

my parents.

Letty

[Guest guest]

uuughhh, all to familiar...

Mum taught us that we had no privacy of any sort, anything we did or had was her

property, and everything we ever achieved was also hers.

If we did well at school it was because she was so talented. If we did bad we

were beaten for " making her look bad " . Everything was to do with her. I had her

eyes, her artistic talent etc. She was " edit " my drawings so they were how she

would have done them. She never did well at sport, so we were never allowed to

do sport. Even now, she tells people that Im so successful because of her, and

because Im just like her, and that I should be greatful to have her genes.

She gave me a painting she did to " display in your house so people can see how

you got your talent " . I took great pleasure in painting over it!

Im just grateful that I actually look like my father, and dont have her " crazy

genes " .

My twin sister looks just like her, has had twins just like her, is almost as

nuts as her - and mum loves it. She sees her as her life's work and tries very

hard to be a big part of my sisters life. Im quite glad, since she has my sister

to dote on, she leaves me alone.

>

> Hello All-

>

> I was thinking over my childhood today, and I remember how much my parents

seemed to over-identify with me. At least, with what they saw as my good traits

(my bad traits were my own evil business).

>

> For example:

>

> If I did well at school, it was " of course, you are smart like me " .

>

> If I won an art contest, it was " of course, I have a lot of artistic talent

and you take after me. I could have been a painter if I wanted to " .

>

> If I wrote a story " this is good. This really shows how well I would have done

if I'd pursued a writing career. "

>

> Maybe to someone not familiar with BPD this might sound complimentary, but it

came across as creepy and invasive.

>

> Sometimes they would catalog out loud what they saw as my personality traits

and assign them to themselves or each other. " Like this you get from me, that

from dad, this from me, that from dad, this from me. "

>

> If I said something like " that's not how I see myself " or " actually, I'm not

really like that " they'd laugh or grow angry. My BPD dad would say over and over

" I know you better than you know yourself " .

>

> My dad told me several times that I was " him, reincarnated " that we " shared

the same soul " .

>

> The thought that I might want my own soul didn't seem to occur to them.

>

> Actually (rueful laughter) it still doesn't.

>

> Did anyone else experience this?

>

> I think I was 18 before I had the epiphany that I wasn't just made up of bits

of my parents.

>

> Letty

>

[Guest guest]

uuughhh, all to familiar...

Mum taught us that we had no privacy of any sort, anything we did or had was her

property, and everything we ever achieved was also hers.

If we did well at school it was because she was so talented. If we did bad we

were beaten for " making her look bad " . Everything was to do with her. I had her

eyes, her artistic talent etc. She was " edit " my drawings so they were how she

would have done them. She never did well at sport, so we were never allowed to

do sport. Even now, she tells people that Im so successful because of her, and

because Im just like her, and that I should be greatful to have her genes.

She gave me a painting she did to " display in your house so people can see how

you got your talent " . I took great pleasure in painting over it!

Im just grateful that I actually look like my father, and dont have her " crazy

genes " .

My twin sister looks just like her, has had twins just like her, is almost as

nuts as her - and mum loves it. She sees her as her life's work and tries very

hard to be a big part of my sisters life. Im quite glad, since she has my sister

to dote on, she leaves me alone.

>

> Hello All-

>

> I was thinking over my childhood today, and I remember how much my parents

seemed to over-identify with me. At least, with what they saw as my good traits

(my bad traits were my own evil business).

>

> For example:

>

> If I did well at school, it was " of course, you are smart like me " .

>

> If I won an art contest, it was " of course, I have a lot of artistic talent

and you take after me. I could have been a painter if I wanted to " .

>

> If I wrote a story " this is good. This really shows how well I would have done

if I'd pursued a writing career. "

>

> Maybe to someone not familiar with BPD this might sound complimentary, but it

came across as creepy and invasive.

>

> Sometimes they would catalog out loud what they saw as my personality traits

and assign them to themselves or each other. " Like this you get from me, that

from dad, this from me, that from dad, this from me. "

>

> If I said something like " that's not how I see myself " or " actually, I'm not

really like that " they'd laugh or grow angry. My BPD dad would say over and over

" I know you better than you know yourself " .

>

> My dad told me several times that I was " him, reincarnated " that we " shared

the same soul " .

>

> The thought that I might want my own soul didn't seem to occur to them.

>

> Actually (rueful laughter) it still doesn't.

>

> Did anyone else experience this?

>

> I think I was 18 before I had the epiphany that I wasn't just made up of bits

of my parents.

>

> Letty

>

[Guest guest]

uuughhh, all to familiar...

Mum taught us that we had no privacy of any sort, anything we did or had was her

property, and everything we ever achieved was also hers.

If we did well at school it was because she was so talented. If we did bad we

were beaten for " making her look bad " . Everything was to do with her. I had her

eyes, her artistic talent etc. She was " edit " my drawings so they were how she

would have done them. She never did well at sport, so we were never allowed to

do sport. Even now, she tells people that Im so successful because of her, and

because Im just like her, and that I should be greatful to have her genes.

She gave me a painting she did to " display in your house so people can see how

you got your talent " . I took great pleasure in painting over it!

Im just grateful that I actually look like my father, and dont have her " crazy

genes " .

My twin sister looks just like her, has had twins just like her, is almost as

nuts as her - and mum loves it. She sees her as her life's work and tries very

hard to be a big part of my sisters life. Im quite glad, since she has my sister

to dote on, she leaves me alone.

>

> Hello All-

>

> I was thinking over my childhood today, and I remember how much my parents

seemed to over-identify with me. At least, with what they saw as my good traits

(my bad traits were my own evil business).

>

> For example:

>

> If I did well at school, it was " of course, you are smart like me " .

>

> If I won an art contest, it was " of course, I have a lot of artistic talent

and you take after me. I could have been a painter if I wanted to " .

>

> If I wrote a story " this is good. This really shows how well I would have done

if I'd pursued a writing career. "

>

> Maybe to someone not familiar with BPD this might sound complimentary, but it

came across as creepy and invasive.

>

> Sometimes they would catalog out loud what they saw as my personality traits

and assign them to themselves or each other. " Like this you get from me, that

from dad, this from me, that from dad, this from me. "

>

> If I said something like " that's not how I see myself " or " actually, I'm not

really like that " they'd laugh or grow angry. My BPD dad would say over and over

" I know you better than you know yourself " .

>

> My dad told me several times that I was " him, reincarnated " that we " shared

the same soul " .

>

> The thought that I might want my own soul didn't seem to occur to them.

>

> Actually (rueful laughter) it still doesn't.

>

> Did anyone else experience this?

>

> I think I was 18 before I had the epiphany that I wasn't just made up of bits

of my parents.

>

> Letty

>

[Guest guest]

yes yes yes!!! To almost all of it (not the reincarnation part though).

And my therapist today told me my task for the week is to work on my

identity. I'm like, what identity?

So where do I find this identity?

I mean, I know certain things about myself, tastes, preferences, colors. .

.. and I'm sure there is more to learn, but I don't think that's what she

means. I'm not sure what she means exactly. . . Anyone Anyone? Buhler

Buhler? Help me out, guys.

On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 8:12 PM, crazy150345 wrote:

>

>

> uuughhh, all to familiar...

>

> Mum taught us that we had no privacy of any sort, anything we did or had

> was her property, and everything we ever achieved was also hers.

> Y

> If we did well at school it was because she was so talented. If we did bad

> we were beaten for " making her look bad " . Everything was to do with her. I

> had her eyes, her artistic talent etc. She was " edit " my drawings so they

> were how she would have done them. She never did well at sport, so we were

> never allowed to do sport. Even now, she tells people that Im so successful

> because of her, and because Im just like her, and that I should be greatful

> to have her genes.

>

> She gave me a painting she did to " display in your house so people can see

> how you got your talent " . I took great pleasure in painting over it!

>

> Im just grateful that I actually look like my father, and dont have her

> " crazy genes " .

> My twin sister looks just like her, has had twins just like her, is almost

> as nuts as her - and mum loves it. She sees her as her life's work and tries

> very hard to be a big part of my sisters life. Im quite glad, since she has

> my sister to dote on, she leaves me alone.

>

>

> >

> > Hello All-

> >

> > I was thinking over my childhood today, and I remember how much my

> parents seemed to over-identify with me. At least, with what they saw as my

> good traits (my bad traits were my own evil business).

> >

> > For example:

> >

> > If I did well at school, it was " of course, you are smart like me " .

> >

> > If I won an art contest, it was " of course, I have a lot of artistic

> talent and you take after me. I could have been a painter if I wanted to " .

> >

> > If I wrote a story " this is good. This really shows how well I would have

> done if I'd pursued a writing career. "

> >

> > Maybe to someone not familiar with BPD this might sound complimentary,

> but it came across as creepy and invasive.

> >

> > Sometimes they would catalog out loud what they saw as my personality

> traits and assign them to themselves or each other. " Like this you get from

> me, that from dad, this from me, that from dad, this from me. "

> >

> > If I said something like " that's not how I see myself " or " actually, I'm

> not really like that " they'd laugh or grow angry. My BPD dad would say over

> and over " I know you better than you know yourself " .

> >

> > My dad told me several times that I was " him, reincarnated " that we

> " shared the same soul " .

> >

> > The thought that I might want my own soul didn't seem to occur to them.

> >

> > Actually (rueful laughter) it still doesn't.

> >

> > Did anyone else experience this?

> >

> > I think I was 18 before I had the epiphany that I wasn't just made up of

> bits of my parents.

> >

> > Letty

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

yes yes yes!!! To almost all of it (not the reincarnation part though).

And my therapist today told me my task for the week is to work on my

identity. I'm like, what identity?

So where do I find this identity?

I mean, I know certain things about myself, tastes, preferences, colors. .

.. and I'm sure there is more to learn, but I don't think that's what she

means. I'm not sure what she means exactly. . . Anyone Anyone? Buhler

Buhler? Help me out, guys.

On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 8:12 PM, crazy150345 wrote:

>

>

> uuughhh, all to familiar...

>

> Mum taught us that we had no privacy of any sort, anything we did or had

> was her property, and everything we ever achieved was also hers.

> Y

> If we did well at school it was because she was so talented. If we did bad

> we were beaten for " making her look bad " . Everything was to do with her. I

> had her eyes, her artistic talent etc. She was " edit " my drawings so they

> were how she would have done them. She never did well at sport, so we were

> never allowed to do sport. Even now, she tells people that Im so successful

> because of her, and because Im just like her, and that I should be greatful

> to have her genes.

>

> She gave me a painting she did to " display in your house so people can see

> how you got your talent " . I took great pleasure in painting over it!

>

> Im just grateful that I actually look like my father, and dont have her

> " crazy genes " .

> My twin sister looks just like her, has had twins just like her, is almost

> as nuts as her - and mum loves it. She sees her as her life's work and tries

> very hard to be a big part of my sisters life. Im quite glad, since she has

> my sister to dote on, she leaves me alone.

>

>

> >

> > Hello All-

> >

> > I was thinking over my childhood today, and I remember how much my

> parents seemed to over-identify with me. At least, with what they saw as my

> good traits (my bad traits were my own evil business).

> >

> > For example:

> >

> > If I did well at school, it was " of course, you are smart like me " .

> >

> > If I won an art contest, it was " of course, I have a lot of artistic

> talent and you take after me. I could have been a painter if I wanted to " .

> >

> > If I wrote a story " this is good. This really shows how well I would have

> done if I'd pursued a writing career. "

> >

> > Maybe to someone not familiar with BPD this might sound complimentary,

> but it came across as creepy and invasive.

> >

> > Sometimes they would catalog out loud what they saw as my personality

> traits and assign them to themselves or each other. " Like this you get from

> me, that from dad, this from me, that from dad, this from me. "

> >

> > If I said something like " that's not how I see myself " or " actually, I'm

> not really like that " they'd laugh or grow angry. My BPD dad would say over

> and over " I know you better than you know yourself " .

> >

> > My dad told me several times that I was " him, reincarnated " that we

> " shared the same soul " .

> >

> > The thought that I might want my own soul didn't seem to occur to them.

> >

> > Actually (rueful laughter) it still doesn't.

> >

> > Did anyone else experience this?

> >

> > I think I was 18 before I had the epiphany that I wasn't just made up of

> bits of my parents.

> >

> > Letty

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

yes yes yes!!! To almost all of it (not the reincarnation part though).

And my therapist today told me my task for the week is to work on my

identity. I'm like, what identity?

So where do I find this identity?

I mean, I know certain things about myself, tastes, preferences, colors. .

.. and I'm sure there is more to learn, but I don't think that's what she

means. I'm not sure what she means exactly. . . Anyone Anyone? Buhler

Buhler? Help me out, guys.

On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 8:12 PM, crazy150345 wrote:

>

>

> uuughhh, all to familiar...

>

> Mum taught us that we had no privacy of any sort, anything we did or had

> was her property, and everything we ever achieved was also hers.

> Y

> If we did well at school it was because she was so talented. If we did bad

> we were beaten for " making her look bad " . Everything was to do with her. I

> had her eyes, her artistic talent etc. She was " edit " my drawings so they

> were how she would have done them. She never did well at sport, so we were

> never allowed to do sport. Even now, she tells people that Im so successful

> because of her, and because Im just like her, and that I should be greatful

> to have her genes.

>

> She gave me a painting she did to " display in your house so people can see

> how you got your talent " . I took great pleasure in painting over it!

>

> Im just grateful that I actually look like my father, and dont have her

> " crazy genes " .

> My twin sister looks just like her, has had twins just like her, is almost

> as nuts as her - and mum loves it. She sees her as her life's work and tries

> very hard to be a big part of my sisters life. Im quite glad, since she has

> my sister to dote on, she leaves me alone.

>

>

> >

> > Hello All-

> >

> > I was thinking over my childhood today, and I remember how much my

> parents seemed to over-identify with me. At least, with what they saw as my

> good traits (my bad traits were my own evil business).

> >

> > For example:

> >

> > If I did well at school, it was " of course, you are smart like me " .

> >

> > If I won an art contest, it was " of course, I have a lot of artistic

> talent and you take after me. I could have been a painter if I wanted to " .

> >

> > If I wrote a story " this is good. This really shows how well I would have

> done if I'd pursued a writing career. "

> >

> > Maybe to someone not familiar with BPD this might sound complimentary,

> but it came across as creepy and invasive.

> >

> > Sometimes they would catalog out loud what they saw as my personality

> traits and assign them to themselves or each other. " Like this you get from

> me, that from dad, this from me, that from dad, this from me. "

> >

> > If I said something like " that's not how I see myself " or " actually, I'm

> not really like that " they'd laugh or grow angry. My BPD dad would say over

> and over " I know you better than you know yourself " .

> >

> > My dad told me several times that I was " him, reincarnated " that we

> " shared the same soul " .

> >

> > The thought that I might want my own soul didn't seem to occur to them.

> >

> > Actually (rueful laughter) it still doesn't.

> >

> > Did anyone else experience this?

> >

> > I think I was 18 before I had the epiphany that I wasn't just made up of

> bits of my parents.

> >

> > Letty

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I believe my nada always thought of me as either an extra appendage she grew,

just an extension of herself, or as an object: just a thing like a doll with no

feelings, needs, wishes or thoughts of its own.

She tended to tell me that I was " just like her " , then she'd proceed to catalog

and lament all of " our " physical imperfections and what a shame how homely this

or that feature was. Although I did take after my dad in some ways that are

very nice, she made me feel ashamed of having his square hands instead of her

long, slender ones.

She always seemed to be focused on the negative, rarely on the positive, as far

as I was concerned.

And she often put me in that " no win " position: when I did something well it was

all due to her efforts, but when I screwed up it was my fault.

-Annie

>

> Hello All-

>

> I was thinking over my childhood today, and I remember how much my parents

seemed to over-identify with me. At least, with what they saw as my good traits

(my bad traits were my own evil business).

>

> For example:

>

> If I did well at school, it was " of course, you are smart like me " .

>

> If I won an art contest, it was " of course, I have a lot of artistic talent

and you take after me. I could have been a painter if I wanted to " .

>

> If I wrote a story " this is good. This really shows how well I would have done

if I'd pursued a writing career. "

>

> Maybe to someone not familiar with BPD this might sound complimentary, but it

came across as creepy and invasive.

>

> Sometimes they would catalog out loud what they saw as my personality traits

and assign them to themselves or each other. " Like this you get from me, that

from dad, this from me, that from dad, this from me. "

>

> If I said something like " that's not how I see myself " or " actually, I'm not

really like that " they'd laugh or grow angry. My BPD dad would say over and over

" I know you better than you know yourself " .

>

> My dad told me several times that I was " him, reincarnated " that we " shared

the same soul " .

>

> The thought that I might want my own soul didn't seem to occur to them.

>

> Actually (rueful laughter) it still doesn't.

>

> Did anyone else experience this?

>

> I think I was 18 before I had the epiphany that I wasn't just made up of bits

of my parents.

>

> Letty

>

[Guest guest]

I absolutely was not allowed to have an identity separate from nada! Are you

kidding? God forbid I try to assert my own self...all hell broke loose!! Even

with little things, like a favorite color or song. I just stopped having

favorites. Or dreams for myself.

My " evil " traits she would blame on her sister or occasionally on my father, and

often on Satan. But everything I did...good, bad, or otherwise, came back

around to " How do you think that makes me look? Do you know what other people

say about me when you do this?? "

I still get randomly amazed by revelations of " Hey, I am not her! I can do this

totally different! " or " Hey, I actually DO like this/DON'T like that! " Moreso

since I went NC.

I got a lot of the " I know you better than you know yourself " and then to back

herself up she'd claim that this or that other person (my friends, other adults

I looked up to, teachers, etc) totally agreed with her and had discussed it with

her. I didn't figure out until I was in college that she'd probably been lying

about all those other people. I was home one summer and working...I ended up

working late. Some friends of mine happened to be up near my parent's house so

decided to surprise me and drop in. I got two versions of the story later:

According to nada, my friends showed up to voice their concerns to her about my

lack of character, selfishness, abusiveness to others, hatefulness, etc. Same

story I'd heard my whole life from nada about others opinions of me. According

to my friends, they showed up to surprise me and maybe all go catch dinner

together and nada told them I'd be home soon and then she ranted at them for

over an hour about how

awful I was and how they should not trust me...and they finally managed to

leave, two of them in tears because they thought her behaviour was so atrocious.

They were all horrified.

I'm gonna lean towards believing my friends on that one (and you'd better bet

that almost 20 years later, we're all still friends!!)

Ninera

>

> Subject: did you have an identity separate from your

parents?

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Date: Tuesday, September 7, 2010, 1:55 AM

> Hello All-

>

> I was thinking over my childhood today, and I remember how

> much my parents seemed to over-identify with me. At least,

> with what they saw as my good traits (my bad traits were my

> own evil business).

>

> For example:

>

> If I did well at school, it was " of course, you are smart

> like me " .

>

> If I won an art contest, it was " of course, I have a lot of

> artistic talent and you take after me. I could have been a

> painter if I wanted to " .

>

> If I wrote a story " this is good. This really shows how

> well I would have done if I'd pursued a writing career. "

>

> Maybe to someone not familiar with BPD this might sound

> complimentary, but it came across as creepy and invasive.

>

> Sometimes they would catalog out loud what they saw as my

> personality traits and assign them to themselves or each

> other. " Like this you get from me, that from dad, this from

> me, that from dad, this from me. "

>

> If I said something like " that's not how I see myself " or

> " actually, I'm not really like that " they'd laugh or grow

> angry. My BPD dad would say over and over " I know you better

> than you know yourself " .

>

> My dad told me several times that I was " him, reincarnated "

> that we " shared the same soul " .

>

> The thought that I might want my own soul didn't seem to

> occur to them.

>

> Actually (rueful laughter) it still doesn't.

>

> Did anyone else experience this?

>

> I think I was 18 before I had the epiphany that I wasn't

> just made up of bits of my parents.

>

> Letty

[Guest guest]

oooh...I still have this problem. Don't know if my experience will help you,

but I'll toss it out there just in case.

That was also one of the first questions my own therapist posed to me when I

began with her. At first, we went through " words that I use to identify

myself " ...so for me that was,

nanny...redhead...ish/Irish/German...daughter...sister...Catholic... and so

on. There were other words that came out later... " Lazy...self

centered...irresponsible... " that were really what I'd been *trained* to think

of myself by nada. One of my earlier " homework assignments " was to write a list

of favorites. Favorite...ANYTHING. That was really really difficult for me.

My therapist pointed out that those may be identifiers, but WHO am I? Like, what

would people say about me at my funeral...To try and finish the sentence " Ninera

is a person who... " loves to sing and expresses strong emotion through

song...has a deeply compassionate heart...advocates well for others...lives her

faith... Things that went a little deeper than what I do (nanny) and what I

have no control over (cultural labels, genetic color of my hair, etc).

It takes a lot of time...at least for me. I may just not be smart at it. I

sometimes feel like maybe my " self " is just...gone. But then...I have moments

where I realize that isn't true, that I'm here, I just have to dig me out from

under all the layers of " imposed identity " that nada heaped on me over the

years.

Some of it...I had to look at the live I've lived and what that says about me.

I help raise children. I did 2 years of mission work, mostly in the third

world. I volunteer in a number of organizations that are all oriented towards

improving the lives of people. When my friends call for help or support, I drop

everything to help (sometimes this is pretty unhealthy!). Looking at those

realities...of the things I do without a ton of thought, but that I do because I

am compelled to do them...I realized, Huh...probably not a self centered person,

am I? Because what self centered, lazy, hateful person does those things?

I kind of stepped back and looked at my life...the things I CHOSE...and tried to

view it as a (sane, stable) outsider would view it...and got a chance to see who

I am. Of course, I saw my shortcomings, too, and learning to not condemn myself

for those has been a whole different effort. :-)

Ninera

>

> Subject: Re: Re: did you have an identity separate from

your parents?

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Date: Tuesday, September 7, 2010, 2:50 AM

> yes yes yes!!! To almost all of it

> (not the reincarnation part though).

>

> And my therapist today told me my task for the week is to

> work on my

> identity. I'm like, what identity?

>

> So where do I find this identity?

>

> I mean, I know certain things about myself, tastes,

> preferences, colors. .

> . and I'm sure there is more to learn, but I don't think

> that's what she

> means. I'm not sure what she means exactly. . . Anyone

> Anyone? Buhler

> Buhler? Help me out, guys.

>

[Guest guest]

that is so true, I never thought of it. when I first realized I had the symptoms

of aspergers, I told my mother and she said she could see it in my brother, " but

not in you " she said, even though my brother and I are practically the same

person in so many ways.

the other time I discussed it with her, she took over the conversation and

talked about it in relationship to her and what traits she had. I think they get

so filled up with negative feedback from abuse that it's not containable in them

so they have to cast it on one of their own children.

you really only have the choice of being a vestige of them, or being the painted

black evil thing. there is no in between.

>

> Hello All-

>

> I was thinking over my childhood today, and I remember how much my parents

seemed to over-identify with me. At least, with what they saw as my good traits

(my bad traits were my own evil business).

>

> For example:

>

> If I did well at school, it was " of course, you are smart like me " .

>

> If I won an art contest, it was " of course, I have a lot of artistic talent

and you take after me. I could have been a painter if I wanted to " .

>

> If I wrote a story " this is good. This really shows how well I would have done

if I'd pursued a writing career. "

>

> Maybe to someone not familiar with BPD this might sound complimentary, but it

came across as creepy and invasive.

>

> Sometimes they would catalog out loud what they saw as my personality traits

and assign them to themselves or each other. " Like this you get from me, that

from dad, this from me, that from dad, this from me. "

>

> If I said something like " that's not how I see myself " or " actually, I'm not

really like that " they'd laugh or grow angry. My BPD dad would say over and over

" I know you better than you know yourself " .

>

> My dad told me several times that I was " him, reincarnated " that we " shared

the same soul " .

>

> The thought that I might want my own soul didn't seem to occur to them.

>

> Actually (rueful laughter) it still doesn't.

>

> Did anyone else experience this?

>

> I think I was 18 before I had the epiphany that I wasn't just made up of bits

of my parents.

>

> Letty

>

[Guest guest]

Okay, so I'm still trying to come up with a definition of what I need to

define when I define my identity. Baby steps. Sounds like it is basically an

elevator speach - that's what we would call it in marketing. Or an obituary?

>

>

> that is so true, I never thought of it. when I first realized I had the

> symptoms of aspergers, I told my mother and she said she could see it in my

> brother, " but not in you " she said, even though my brother and I are

> practically the same person in so many ways.

>

> the other time I discussed it with her, she took over the conversation and

> talked about it in relationship to her and what traits she had. I think they

> get so filled up with negative feedback from abuse that it's not containable

> in them so they have to cast it on one of their own children.

>

> you really only have the choice of being a vestige of them, or being the

> painted black evil thing. there is no in between.

>

>

>

> >

> > Hello All-

> >

> > I was thinking over my childhood today, and I remember how much my

> parents seemed to over-identify with me. At least, with what they saw as my

> good traits (my bad traits were my own evil business).

> >

> > For example:

> >

> > If I did well at school, it was " of course, you are smart like me " .

> >

> > If I won an art contest, it was " of course, I have a lot of artistic

> talent and you take after me. I could have been a painter if I wanted to " .

> >

> > If I wrote a story " this is good. This really shows how well I would have

> done if I'd pursued a writing career. "

> >

> > Maybe to someone not familiar with BPD this might sound complimentary,

> but it came across as creepy and invasive.

> >

> > Sometimes they would catalog out loud what they saw as my personality

> traits and assign them to themselves or each other. " Like this you get from

> me, that from dad, this from me, that from dad, this from me. "

> >

> > If I said something like " that's not how I see myself " or " actually, I'm

> not really like that " they'd laugh or grow angry. My BPD dad would say over

> and over " I know you better than you know yourself " .

> >

> > My dad told me several times that I was " him, reincarnated " that we

> " shared the same soul " .

> >

> > The thought that I might want my own soul didn't seem to occur to them.

> >

> > Actually (rueful laughter) it still doesn't.

> >

> > Did anyone else experience this?

> >

> > I think I was 18 before I had the epiphany that I wasn't just made up of

> bits of my parents.

> >

> > Letty

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks all for comments. It's always oddly reassuring, though sad, to see that

others had these experiences.

Girlscout - sounds like a true definition, but if you notice it still defines

you in terms of your family, assuming they are what you " got away " from. Who is

Girlscout alone, without all that mess?

I used to ask myself " Who was I meant to be before all the sh*t happened " and

tried to work my way back towards that.

What's so weird to me about the over-identifying stuff is that implicit

assumption that we would WANT to be like them. When most of the time it just

made me think " Dear God, no! NO! "

My foster daughter tells me the meanest thing she and her sisters could say to

each other, if an argument got really ugly, was " You are acting just like (BPD)

mom. "

For me and my brother, it was sometimes an insult and sometimes a terrified

heartfelt warning - we'd made a pact to let each other know if we started to

" act like (BPD) Dad " .

So sad.

> >> >

> >> > Hello All-

> >> >

> >> > I was thinking over my childhood today, and I remember how much my

> >> parents seemed to over-identify with me. At least, with what they saw as my

> >> good traits (my bad traits were my own evil business).

> >> >

> >> > For example:

> >> >

> >> > If I did well at school, it was " of course, you are smart like me " .

> >> >

> >> > If I won an art contest, it was " of course, I have a lot of artistic

> >> talent and you take after me. I could have been a painter if I wanted to " .

> >> >

> >> > If I wrote a story " this is good. This really shows how well I would

> >> have done if I'd pursued a writing career. "

> >> >

> >> > Maybe to someone not familiar with BPD this might sound complimentary,

> >> but it came across as creepy and invasive.

> >> >

> >> > Sometimes they would catalog out loud what they saw as my personality

> >> traits and assign them to themselves or each other. " Like this you get from

> >> me, that from dad, this from me, that from dad, this from me. "

> >> >

> >> > If I said something like " that's not how I see myself " or " actually, I'm

> >> not really like that " they'd laugh or grow angry. My BPD dad would say over

> >> and over " I know you better than you know yourself " .

> >> >

> >> > My dad told me several times that I was " him, reincarnated " that we

> >> " shared the same soul " .

> >> >

> >> > The thought that I might want my own soul didn't seem to occur to them.

> >> >

> >> > Actually (rueful laughter) it still doesn't.

> >> >

> >> > Did anyone else experience this?

> >> >

> >> > I think I was 18 before I had the epiphany that I wasn't just made up of

> >> bits of my parents.

> >> >

> >> > Letty

> >> >

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

So, I'm not saying that's the only thing I know about myself. . . or that it

won't change, but I want to go through the other traits I have (which read

like a boy scout handbook - loyal, prompt, thrifty, true, generous etc) and

see what I choose to be and what I choose to give up. So it might take a

while. A few things I know I want to keep. A few things I don't. . .

Hugs guys!

>

>

>

> Thanks all for comments. It's always oddly reassuring, though sad, to see

> that others had these experiences.

>

> Girlscout - sounds like a true definition, but if you notice it still

> defines you in terms of your family, assuming they are what you " got away "

> from. Who is Girlscout alone, without all that mess?

>

> I used to ask myself " Who was I meant to be before all the sh*t happened "

> and tried to work my way back towards that.

>

> What's so weird to me about the over-identifying stuff is that implicit

> assumption that we would WANT to be like them. When most of the time it just

> made me think " Dear God, no! NO! "

>

> My foster daughter tells me the meanest thing she and her sisters could say

> to each other, if an argument got really ugly, was " You are acting just like

> (BPD) mom. "

>

> For me and my brother, it was sometimes an insult and sometimes a terrified

> heartfelt warning - we'd made a pact to let each other know if we started to

> " act like (BPD) Dad " .

>

> So sad.

>

>

>

> > >> >

> > >> > Hello All-

> > >> >

> > >> > I was thinking over my childhood today, and I remember how much my

> > >> parents seemed to over-identify with me. At least, with what they saw

> as my

> > >> good traits (my bad traits were my own evil business).

> > >> >

> > >> > For example:

> > >> >

> > >> > If I did well at school, it was " of course, you are smart like me " .

> > >> >

> > >> > If I won an art contest, it was " of course, I have a lot of artistic

> > >> talent and you take after me. I could have been a painter if I wanted

> to " .

> > >> >

> > >> > If I wrote a story " this is good. This really shows how well I would

> > >> have done if I'd pursued a writing career. "

> > >> >

> > >> > Maybe to someone not familiar with BPD this might sound

> complimentary,

> > >> but it came across as creepy and invasive.

> > >> >

> > >> > Sometimes they would catalog out loud what they saw as my

> personality

> > >> traits and assign them to themselves or each other. " Like this you get

> from

> > >> me, that from dad, this from me, that from dad, this from me. "

> > >> >

> > >> > If I said something like " that's not how I see myself " or " actually,

> I'm

> > >> not really like that " they'd laugh or grow angry. My BPD dad would say

> over

> > >> and over " I know you better than you know yourself " .

> > >> >

> > >> > My dad told me several times that I was " him, reincarnated " that we

> > >> " shared the same soul " .

> > >> >

> > >> > The thought that I might want my own soul didn't seem to occur to

> them.

> > >> >

> > >> > Actually (rueful laughter) it still doesn't.

> > >> >

> > >> > Did anyone else experience this?

> > >> >

> > >> > I think I was 18 before I had the epiphany that I wasn't just made

> up of

> > >> bits of my parents.

> > >> >

> > >> > Letty

> > >> >

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I have several thoughts on the subject:

I had a conversation with my mom tonight in which I was alternately

compared to her mother, and then put down by how I could not hold a

candle to her mother " who only had one year of education. "

As a child I was told I was stubborn, precocious, stupid, lazy,

irresponsible, undisciplined and would never amount to anything

without her. I too was told that she " knew me better than I knew

myself. " I am pretty sure she told me that in junior high, and I knew

with every cell, that she was wrong.

As an adult, I have told her that she doesn't know me at all, and that

makes her mad. Very mad. Oh well, it is true! When she is close to

being correct the interpretation is demeaning or discounting. It could

drive me crazy, but now it has become fodder for humor.

The way I see it today, I spent lots of time alone as a child so that

I would know my traits, my tastes, and my own mind. I spent lots of

time day dreaming, singing, reading, talking story with my brother and

with whomever would listen. I knew that there was someone inside of me

that was very different than nada. I could feel those differences in

the part of my body that is the solar plexus.

I saw that when I was ten, I had already made my mind up that I wanted

a different person in the white house than my parents did. And I had

such a sense of humor, I even would risk anger and a " spanking " from

my nada, to express it.

My nada would often get angry at how I " just wanted to have fun. " She

belittled that. So, my " little Vicki " (the professor) would be even

more adamant that she would do the same thing again, only different.

I am not sure just how I chose to be as different as possible from

nada. Was it because I would crane my ears hoping for my dad to defend

me, and I would hear him say, " Let her be? " (He was talking to my mom,

and would often tell her to relax. Or to let V (me) be.)

My father would often do what needed to be done, without making any

waves. He would just quietly act. I think that taught me that if I

really wanted to do something, to do it while nada was not watching!

In that way, I found out if the things I wanted to do were worth the

price of being punished later. Mostly they were. My mom actually

respected stubbornness, much as she complained about it.

In fact, I am remembering how she was actually kind of proud that I

had some characteristics in common with my dad. She kind of thought he

was a pushover, but when I would act out things that I knew he would

never object to, she kind of sided with him. Weird.

Anyways, I think most kids are hybrids of their parents and then

venture out to find out where they are unique. Seems normal to me now

as a parent, to look at our son and say, Oh he's like you or here he

is like me. He has talents in math and music I will never have. Fine

by me. I am secure in my creativity.. my writing vocation....

voracious reader. I don't need to compare. He is already into science

like his dad, and was named after a medieval scientist. But he will be

his own person. It will be fun to see all the things where he excels

that we are not good at.

Funny, once our son began learning piano, my husband decided to teach

himself. They are kind of in competition, but it seems healthy. I do

have to intervene sometimes, because when my son does not practice, my

husband kind of takes it personally.

All of us parents live through our kids, especially same sex kids, I

believe. Is it the trick not to let it hurt your child or your

relationship with them (be candid about it?).

[Guest guest]

But that doesn't tell me much about you and who you are as YOU...it might tell

me who you are in relation to someone else, but not much about you.

Ninera

>

> Subject: Re: Re: did you have an identity separate from

your parents?

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Date: Tuesday, September 7, 2010, 11:52 PM

> Okay here is my elevator speach about

> my identity:

> " Girlscout is the one who got away. "

>

> What do you guys think?

>

[Guest guest]

Girlscout, while I applaud your fortitude, there's more to you than your escape

event.

How about:

" Girlscout is the caring, consistent friend to the wounded "

or

" Girlscout is the thoughtful, successful media magnate "

or

" Girlscout is an introspective, reliable, intelligent success story "

or...

all of the above.

Adjectives may help you figure it out. How about listing a few adjectives that

you feel describe you. Think about why you went into media in the first place.

All of these motives, these descriptives, can help you arrive at a solution that

fits you.

Both my cents,

Tina the caring training writer

>

> Okay here is my elevator speach about my identity:

> " Girlscout is the one who got away. "

>

> What do you guys think?

>