Re: Fun for all - Family Tree Assignment

[Guest guest]

I think she would understand, especially since she said that if there was

abuse, she'd excuse you. Just let her know that your nada is abusive, and

your father is suffering from severe dementia, but you have other sources to

ask about your ancestors (if you do...like an aunt or a family bible or

something) You don't have to go into more details about your abusive past

than absolutely necessary--you don't even have to mention whether it was

physical, mental, emotional, or sexual.

" You assigned the family tree assignment and told us to talk to relatives.

Unfortunately my mother is very mentally ill and abusive, so I have had to

limit contact with her to protect myself. My father is in the end stages of

dementia.

However, I do have X, Y, and Z sources that I will use to figure out my

family tree. Will this be acceptable to you? "

If she's a good person, she will understand. If not, you should talk with

the department chair about your problem, or the dean of the college

(depending on how your school is set up.) You can also, if your school

offers it, use an ombudsperson to help sort it out, because they know the

rules and procedures that people have to follow in order to resolve an

issue.

I unfortunately know about this procedure because my husband had to get an

ombudsperson involved when the graduate chair was being very

vindicative/unfair to him.

But...any sane and understanding person would be okay with your explanation,

psychology degrees notwithstanding.

Holly

>

>

> Guys, I am taking a college course where we are being assigned a family

> tree. Our professor made some kind of statement like, " I don't care if you

> hate your mother or you hate your father - that is no reason not to ask them

> about their parents. " Then she said something to the effect of if there was

> sexual or physical abuse, she would excuse you from having to talk to that

> parent.

>

> Have any of you been through this? I am LC with my nada - I won't take her

> phone calls. My father is at the end stages of dementia. This professor, I

> noticed, has a Masters in psychology, so she should know what a borderline

> is, right?

>

> Any advice? I'm trying to make an appointment with her, but I just don't

> know what to say.

>

> Deanna

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree about maintaining your boundaries with NC - but if you can do a

little of it, it could be an interesting exercise for you. I just did it

with what I know of my family tree, and it was very hard, but worthwhile.

On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 6:35 PM, Holly Byers

wrote:

> I think she would understand, especially since she said that if there was

> abuse, she'd excuse you. Just let her know that your nada is abusive, and

> your father is suffering from severe dementia, but you have other sources

> to

> ask about your ancestors (if you do...like an aunt or a family bible or

> something) You don't have to go into more details about your abusive past

> than absolutely necessary--you don't even have to mention whether it was

> physical, mental, emotional, or sexual.

>

> " You assigned the family tree assignment and told us to talk to relatives.

> Unfortunately my mother is very mentally ill and abusive, so I have had to

> limit contact with her to protect myself. My father is in the end stages of

> dementia.

>

> However, I do have X, Y, and Z sources that I will use to figure out my

> family tree. Will this be acceptable to you? "

>

> If she's a good person, she will understand. If not, you should talk with

> the department chair about your problem, or the dean of the college

> (depending on how your school is set up.) You can also, if your school

> offers it, use an ombudsperson to help sort it out, because they know the

> rules and procedures that people have to follow in order to resolve an

> issue.

>

> I unfortunately know about this procedure because my husband had to get an

> ombudsperson involved when the graduate chair was being very

> vindicative/unfair to him.

>

> But...any sane and understanding person would be okay with your

> explanation,

> psychology degrees notwithstanding.

>

> Holly

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > Guys, I am taking a college course where we are being assigned a family

> > tree. Our professor made some kind of statement like, " I don't care if

> you

> > hate your mother or you hate your father - that is no reason not to ask

> them

> > about their parents. " Then she said something to the effect of if there

> was

> > sexual or physical abuse, she would excuse you from having to talk to

> that

> > parent.

> >

> > Have any of you been through this? I am LC with my nada - I won't take

> her

> > phone calls. My father is at the end stages of dementia. This professor,

> I

> > noticed, has a Masters in psychology, so she should know what a

> borderline

> > is, right?

> >

> > Any advice? I'm trying to make an appointment with her, but I just don't

> > know what to say.

> >

> > Deanna

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You know, I was thinking about it - like what if I HAD to do it.

Here is what I think would happen: she would be really happy to talk to me,

she would cry when I leave, but she would help me. THEN after I left, she would

think about it, and think about it, and think about it, and she would feel used,

and angry and she would call everyone she knows to tell them what an asshole I

am and how I used her and now I won't talk to her. And everyone in the family

would get angry, and it would cause everyone (especially her) a lot of harm.

So now I'm thinking that it would just be a bad idea all around.

Deanna

>

> I agree about maintaining your boundaries with NC - but if you can do a

> little of it, it could be an interesting exercise for you. I just did it

> with what I know of my family tree, and it was very hard, but worthwhile.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Deanna,

I'm not sure what kind of information your professor thinks her

students would get from their parents for this assignment--and of course I

understand your reasons for not being able to do it--but I wonder if you even

did ask your nada to tell you stuff about the family tree,would she be able to

truly participate?

I ask this because when I imagine asking my nada questions about her

parents,I know that her first reaction (esp since it's related to me,the " bad "

one,and something I am doing) would be to get defensive and think: I'm not

telling these strangers *my* business...So all I'd get would be pretty useless

stuff anyway that would make for a pretty superficial paper.

Like: Your grandmother was voted Queen of the May in high school

(looks good)

Instead of:Your grandmother was head hunted by an Olympic coach in

high school because she was the star of her track team but her family was too

poor to send her to the training camp for potential Olympians and she wondered

for the rest of her life if she would have gone all the way to the Olympics and

felt bitter about this (looks bad)

Or: Your grandfather became a naturalized US citizen

Not: Your grandfather became a US citizen because during WW2 he was

interned as an enemy alien and he was terrified of being deported back to Italy

I mean,just a thought--even if you did ask her,you might not get

anything useful to the assigment from her anyway.

I like what Holly suggested you say to your professor about your

nada being very mentally ill--and like Girlscout said maybe there would be a way

to do the assignment based on what you already know without having to actually

speak to your nada.

You have a legitimate reason not to participate as required

however--basically because of circumstances beyond your control,you are simply

not able to involve your parents in this project.It has nothing to do with

" hating " your parents or just not wanting to do the assignment.You have

legitimate extenuating circumstances here.

>

> Guys, I am taking a college course where we are being assigned a family tree.

Our professor made some kind of statement like, " I don't care if you hate your

mother or you hate your father - that is no reason not to ask them about their

parents. " Then she said something to the effect of if there was sexual or

physical abuse, she would excuse you from having to talk to that parent.

>

> Have any of you been through this? I am LC with my nada - I won't take her

phone calls. My father is at the end stages of dementia. This professor, I

noticed, has a Masters in psychology, so she should know what a borderline is,

right?

>

> Any advice? I'm trying to make an appointment with her, but I just don't know

what to say.

>

> Deanna

>

[Guest guest]

Deanna - 's right - the information you'd get from Nada might be warped

beyond all usefulness, and the price you'd pay for getting it - whew, I don't

even want to go there. I started tracking some family genealogy at one point

and asked my mom for information - she was unable to stay focused on the task

and answer questions, kept going off on self-serving tangents, circling back

around to how she'd been neglected or abused by one relative or another. It

had to be all about her, even though I was asking straight, easy questions about

more distant relatives. She also used the opportunity to keep telling me,

" that's why we're so XYZ " - as if everything in our lives is determined by our

ancestors' characteristics and life experiences. It was incredibly frustrating.

To make matters worse, she then used this conversation for months of Hoovering,

promising to " find that box of family photos if you'll come help me clean up the

storage room " (which is stacked floor to ceiling with hoarded junk). Overall,

not a worthwhile endeavor.

SO - I used what I knew, went online to Ancestry.com and the Social Security

Death Index (as well as some cemetery indices), and was able to cobble together

some useful information. That might be a way to satisfy the requirements for

your assignment while avoiding the mess with Nada. Your local genealogy

resources are probably a lot less trouble than Nada would be.

> >

> > Guys, I am taking a college course where we are being assigned a family

tree. Our professor made some kind of statement like, " I don't care if you hate

your mother or you hate your father - that is no reason not to ask them about

their parents. " Then she said something to the effect of if there was sexual or

physical abuse, she would excuse you from having to talk to that parent.

> >

> > Have any of you been through this? I am LC with my nada - I won't take her

phone calls. My father is at the end stages of dementia. This professor, I

noticed, has a Masters in psychology, so she should know what a borderline is,

right?

> >

> > Any advice? I'm trying to make an appointment with her, but I just don't

know what to say.

> >

> > Deanna

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hm...

I have issues, sometimes, with family tree assignments. They presume that 1.

the info is easily accessible (and obviously, for KO's, it can be tough) and 2.

demands that one have a traditionally mappable family. It's a common issue for

gradeschoolers who were adopted or who are in foster care...family tree

assignments/autobiography assignments are tough. (I nannied for several years

for a family with a single adoptive mother, both children adopted separately

from Russia...the 3rd grade autobiography assignment asked the children to

question their parents about how they discovered they were pregnant, what the

birth was like, what the weather was like that day, etc...all questions an

adopted child cannot always answer).

Anyway...I guess I'd be tempted to point out to the professor that not all

families are traditional, nor can all families be mapped like a traditional

tree. And, not all families are biological. If pushed to do one, personally,

I'd probably draw a family cluster that represented my family by choice.

Ninera

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Deanna,

I think if you explained your situation honestly and clearly to the instructor,

she'll agree with you. Don't break your boundaries on account of this project.

Sorry that this is happening to you; what should be a simple school work task

has now ripped off the borderline band-aid. Bummer D.

I once had an instructor task the class with writing a paper on our most painful

personal experience. This was high school. What a sadistic jerk he was. That's

a can o' borderline worms, let me tell you. I wrote about my parents divorce

and my dad's alcoholism ( I didn't know about BPD at the time). I regretted

writing about it as I was graded quite low even though I was a pretty good

student all around. If I could go back in time I would have challenged the

ethics of the assignment alltogether, and not written anything at all perhaps.

What kind of instructor askes for people to pour their hearts out about their

most personal pain and then grades them poorly? My feeling is that some of these

instructors don't realize how invasive this is, and that unconventional families

have a tough time with this stuff.

I hope it works out for you Deanna.

>

> Guys, I am taking a college course where we are being assigned a family tree.

Our professor made some kind of statement like, " I don't care if you hate your

mother or you hate your father - that is no reason not to ask them about their

parents. " Then she said something to the effect of if there was sexual or

physical abuse, she would excuse you from having to talk to that parent.

>

> Have any of you been through this? I am LC with my nada - I won't take her

phone calls. My father is at the end stages of dementia. This professor, I

noticed, has a Masters in psychology, so she should know what a borderline is,

right?

>

> Any advice? I'm trying to make an appointment with her, but I just don't know

what to say.

>

> Deanna

>

[Guest guest]

Nothing like a seemingly benign assignment to slap us KO's in the face with what

we already know - our family tree has a few nuts. I think I would both talk to

the prof to let them know that getting some of your family history may be

impossible and, at the same time, branch out from the bigger limbs to see if you

have a more distant family member who is into family history to see if they can

help you. I agree that nada's info will most likely be incomplete or inaccurate

anyway.

I also think even hinting to her that you want this information would only give

her, yet again, amo to try to hurt you. It doesn't sound like you are

considering this anyway but just in case you were I would caution you against

it. My nada is really wierd about this stuff. I am a bit of a family

history/memory keeping nut and nada knows this. Of course she uses that against

me. She had many family history photos, copied many, gave me about 3 of them

and sent the rest to my uncle who is basically inaccessible to me. She also is

hanging onto a book that I made with her before I was NC about my

grandparents/her parents. I told her I wanted to copy pages out of it as I lost

the photos I took of the pages. I haven't seen it since I made that request.

Having said all this - I think we deserve to have these questions answered as

much as anyone. Keep us posted on how it goes.

patinage

>

> Guys, I am taking a college course where we are being assigned a family tree.

Our professor made some kind of statement like, " I don't care if you hate your

mother or you hate your father - that is no reason not to ask them about their

parents. " Then she said something to the effect of if there was sexual or

physical abuse, she would excuse you from having to talk to that parent.

>

> Have any of you been through this? I am LC with my nada - I won't take her

phone calls. My father is at the end stages of dementia. This professor, I

noticed, has a Masters in psychology, so she should know what a borderline is,

right?

>

> Any advice? I'm trying to make an appointment with her, but I just don't know

what to say.

>

> Deanna

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, I agree that that assignment was really inappropriate and invasive,

particularly if it was a high-school level class. Good lord, high school can be

enough of a snake pit for some students without being *required* to hand over

deeply private and potentially shaming information like that in public (!?)

Good grief! And then to grade a student poorly for sharing something private

like that... wow.

Well, for me, that teacher probably had other behaviors, said and did other

things as well as this that were odd, intrusive, and inappropriate, etc.

Maybe I was just unlucky, but I had some really, really disturbed teachers in

both elementary school and high school, and even a couple in college. But the

creepy, hateful, scary, odd, sexually-inappropriate elementary school and high

school teachers were far more numerous. One of my fifth-grade teachers was

actually taken away between classes one day, she had a complete psychotic break.

(In retrospect I figure that's what it must have been; at the time us kids were

just scared and bewildered by her screaming and were told she was " sick. " )

I had a few really brilliant, compassionate, sterling-quality teachers too, but

mostly they were ordinary, not-particularly-memorable ones. Funny how the

peculiar, creepy, mean, disturbing ones stand out in my memory, though.

Oh Lord, Please don't let me have a " negativity filter " like my nada!

Ack!!

-Annie

> >

> > Guys, I am taking a college course where we are being assigned a family

tree. Our professor made some kind of statement like, " I don't care if you hate

your mother or you hate your father - that is no reason not to ask them about

their parents. " Then she said something to the effect of if there was sexual or

physical abuse, she would excuse you from having to talk to that parent.

> >

> > Have any of you been through this? I am LC with my nada - I won't take her

phone calls. My father is at the end stages of dementia. This professor, I

noticed, has a Masters in psychology, so she should know what a borderline is,

right?

> >

> > Any advice? I'm trying to make an appointment with her, but I just don't

know what to say.

> >

> > Deanna

> >

>

[Guest guest]

How about finding out what you need to know through a website like Ancestry.com?

Or through the Mormons (whom I believe have a huge free database of ancestors).

I might say to the teacher, in a note attached to the paper. " I do not have a

family member who is well enough to help me with this assignment, so I did the

research myself "

Or, if the point is to collect some kind of family stories, could you do the

assignment with someone ELSE's family? A sort of oral history project? go to an

old folks home, find a nice lonely elderly person, and ask them about their

history?

Maybe there is a way to either learn something truthful for yourself about your

family, contact free, or else do something nice for someone else.

I'd try to figure out the point of the assignment and figure out something that

addresses that without hurting you.

I wouldn't actually talk about an abuse history with a teacher - it's really

none of their damn business, no matter what subject they teach.

If pressed, I might say " I'm sorry that I'm not able to complete the assignment

as you envisioned, but we don't all come from traditional families. What would

be an acceptable substitute? "

> >

> > Guys, I am taking a college course where we are being assigned a family

tree. Our professor made some kind of statement like, " I don't care if you hate

your mother or you hate your father - that is no reason not to ask them about

their parents. " Then she said something to the effect of if there was sexual or

physical abuse, she would excuse you from having to talk to that parent.

> >

> > Have any of you been through this? I am LC with my nada - I won't take her

phone calls. My father is at the end stages of dementia. This professor, I

noticed, has a Masters in psychology, so she should know what a borderline is,

right?

> >

> > Any advice? I'm trying to make an appointment with her, but I just don't

know what to say.

> >

> > Deanna

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My niece had to do that when she was in high school. They called it her

" pedigree " of all things.

How was she supposed to write anything down when her biological father was never

in the picture (her mother refused to let her know anything about him, even when

he tried to communicate) and her father (my brother) never adopted her? They

" didn't have the money " for a legal adoption, but they had the money for two

brand new Harley son motorcycles. What was she supposed to say? I've been

discarded by everyone who should care about me and don't really belong anywhere?

So I don't have a pedigree other than no one gives a s***?

The whole thing makes me sick. Who the bleep cares.

This isn't the most honorable advice, but I think you should claim severe abuse,

and tell your teacher that talking to your bio family will kick up your PTSD.

Then, if she pushes the issue, start to hyperventilate, sink to the floor with

your head between your knees and start to cry and wail " please don't make me

talk to that woman! "

Okay, completely silly. I'd never actually do that. But it's fun to imagine.

Seriously, if I had advice, I'd suggest you do whatever you have to to take care

of yourself and protect yourself. It's much more important to stay safe than

follow the letter of the law on this assignment. This teacher doesn't sound

like a safe person to tell your story to, anyway. I'd keep all personal info

about my family far away from her. She's already shown herself to be

uncaring/unfeeling/uninformed.

Or . . . maybe you could tell the teacher you were adopted, and use this board

as the " family " who took you in.

I hope a good answer comes for you--

Blessings,

Karla

>

> Guys, I am taking a college course where we are being assigned a family tree.

Our professor made some kind of statement like, " I don't care if you hate your

mother or you hate your father - that is no reason not to ask them about their

parents. " Then she said something to the effect of if there was sexual or

physical abuse, she would excuse you from having to talk to that parent.

>

> Have any of you been through this? I am LC with my nada - I won't take her

phone calls. My father is at the end stages of dementia. This professor, I

noticed, has a Masters in psychology, so she should know what a borderline is,

right?

>

> Any advice? I'm trying to make an appointment with her, but I just don't know

what to say.

>

> Deanna

>

[Guest guest]

You could start with what you already know and fill in the blanks with

fiction - just make it up.

It's not like the prof can check out your " story. "

Sent from my blueberry.

On Sep 22, 2010, at 3:35 PM, " patinage4me "

wrote:

> Nothing like a seemingly benign assignment to slap us KO's in the

> face with what we already know - our family tree has a few nuts. I

> think I would both talk to the prof to let them know that getting

> some of your family history may be impossible and, at the same time,

> branch out from the bigger limbs to see if you have a more distant

> family member who is into family history to see if they can help

> you. I agree that nada's info will most likely be incomplete or

> inaccurate anyway.

>

> I also think even hinting to her that you want this information

> would only give her, yet again, amo to try to hurt you. It doesn't

> sound like you are considering this anyway but just in case you were

> I would caution you against it. My nada is really wierd about this

> stuff. I am a bit of a family history/memory keeping nut and nada

> knows this. Of course she uses that against me. She had many family

> history photos, copied many, gave me about 3 of them and sent the

> rest to my uncle who is basically inaccessible to me. She also is

> hanging onto a book that I made with her before I was NC about my

> grandparents/her parents. I told her I wanted to copy pages out of

> it as I lost the photos I took of the pages. I haven't seen it since

> I made that request.

>

> Having said all this - I think we deserve to have these questions

> answered as much as anyone. Keep us posted on how it goes.

>

> patinage

>

> >

> > Guys, I am taking a college course where we are being assigned a

> family tree. Our professor made some kind of statement like, " I

> don't care if you hate your mother or you hate your father - that is

> no reason not to ask them about their parents. " Then she said

> something to the effect of if there was sexual or physical abuse,

> she would excuse you from having to talk to that parent.

> >

> > Have any of you been through this? I am LC with my nada - I won't

> take her phone calls. My father is at the end stages of dementia.

> This professor, I noticed, has a Masters in psychology, so she

> should know what a borderline is, right?

> >

> > Any advice? I'm trying to make an appointment with her, but I just

> don't know what to say.

> >

> > Deanna

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Why the hell not! Id find that quite an enjoyable creative experience myself -

as long as you dont say your grandfather was Captain Jack or a green alien from

the Simpsons, noone would be any the wiser.

>

> You could start with what you already know and fill in the blanks with

> fiction - just make it up.

> It's not like the prof can check out your " story. "

>

> Sent from my blueberry.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your responses everyone. I did talk with her privately, and she

didn't push - she seemed to accept that it was " just not feasible " for me to

talk to her for this assignment.

She said she would help me with Ancestry.com. She told the class that she would

be checking what we turn in by looking at Ancestry.com. When I went to see her,

she did say I could come in during her office hours and she would help me with

my mother's side.

> >

> > You could start with what you already know and fill in the blanks with

> > fiction - just make it up.

> > It's not like the prof can check out your " story. "

> >

> > Sent from my blueberry.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

So... is it an assignment to teach you how to organize a family tree? or how to

do research? or how to explore medical histories within a family? It sounds

like kind of a weird assignment, unless the class is in genealogy or general

on-line research skills...

Unless the class requires you to gain knowledge specific to your own family,

seems like you could use ANYBODY's data (a spouse, a neighbor, somebody famous)

to achieve the goals of the assignment. Research is research, and documentation

skills are just skills. And if you're supposed to be exploring your own family

history for purposes of creating a disease pattern list, you'd need info that's

not on Ancestry.com - and sources of information who are lucid (eliminating a

whole lot of elderly relatives, not just Nadas).

Just sayin'...

> > >

> > > You could start with what you already know and fill in the blanks with

> > > fiction - just make it up.

> > > It's not like the prof can check out your " story. "

> > >

> > > Sent from my blueberry.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Ha ha ha I laughed when I read the fictional rewriting of family history. I

might do that just for my own entertainment one of these days. though I must

say, the reality of my family history is stranger than fiction. . .

On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:24 AM, shirleyspawn wrote:

>

>

> So... is it an assignment to teach you how to organize a family tree? or

> how to do research? or how to explore medical histories within a family? It

> sounds like kind of a weird assignment, unless the class is in genealogy or

> general on-line research skills...

>

> Unless the class requires you to gain knowledge specific to your own

> family, seems like you could use ANYBODY's data (a spouse, a neighbor,

> somebody famous) to achieve the goals of the assignment. Research is

> research, and documentation skills are just skills. And if you're supposed

> to be exploring your own family history for purposes of creating a disease

> pattern list, you'd need info that's not on Ancestry.com - and sources of

> information who are lucid (eliminating a whole lot of elderly relatives, not

> just Nadas).

>

> Just sayin'...

>

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > You could start with what you already know and fill in the blanks

> with

> > > > fiction - just make it up.

> > > > It's not like the prof can check out your " story. "

> > > >

> > > > Sent from my blueberry.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>