Re: Hello and some random thoughts...

[Guest guest]

Hi, Lynda - good to hear from you!

I'm wondering if part of that " numbness " you describe could be just a lack of

pain? Or maybe it's the kind of exhaustion that follows a surge of adrenaline.

If you've been operating in " stress mode " for a long time, when things calm down

and the stress reaction stops, you could feel really worn out. It may feel

funny to have a big gap where WWIII used to be! But you've got plenty of

material to fill that gap with positive feelings and activities - it's just

going to take a little time to rebuild the " infrastructure. "

As to the approaching holidays - if you're NC, you don't have to change just

because there's a holiday. One thing you could do is to make alternative plans

NOW. Plan a trip, or plan to do something that will make it impossible for you,

your partner and child to attend the family get-togethers. Since your child is

young, this is a perfect opportunity to start your own traditions. Otherwise,

it will become a " family tradition " that you haul your family to whatever

crapfest Nada demands, and you'll be dreading Christmas for the next twenty

years. Using grandchildren to manipulate adult kids is a time-honored

technique, so head her off at the pass!

>

> Dear friends,

>

> I've been absent from these pages for a while because I've needed some time

out from all of this. Even though it's been well needed time out, I often find

myself wondering how everyone is doing. I feel so grateful to have found this

site and wanted to thank everyone for their encouragement, support and advice,

particularly during the last " incident " when mother came and pulled out pot

plants and threw them across my yard, denied that she had done it and then

called and messaged my house until 2 in the morning.

>

> I had a few obscure messages after the event and then nothing for a couple of

weeks, so I guess I'm N.C for real. It's quite strange, a few months ago when I

found this site, I wouldn't have dreamed that I would be here. I never imagined

the possibility of not having her in my life.

>

> I feel really strange about it. Mostly it feels good and I am utterly

relieved.

>

> Well mostly...

>

> I also feel really numb and detached, which alarms me somewhat. I am scared of

emotions lurking beneath the surface. I have moments of massive self doubt,

where I wonder if I have done the wrong thing. Am I the selfish, self obsessed

person she says I am etc. etc.

>

> I also have real trouble recalling things that she has said/done over the

years. Does anyone else have that same experience? I think it has been my coping

mechanism (maybe it really is for the best ha, ha!).

> I recently had yet another experience of trying to explain my situation to a

psychologist and I was really vague on the detail and at the end of the session

I felt like I came across as a petty brat who had had a fight with my parent and

couldn't find it in my heart to forgive her.

>

> This vagueness makes it really hard to stay resolute in my thinking at times.

I start to wonder if I have over-reacted. I also think this sometimes when I

read other posts on here, by people who really did have a much harder time than

I ever did and I start to feel like I'm just being a drama queen.

>

> I know this not to be the case really. I have friends and family who

constantly affirm that her behaviour is utterly crazy. Also, she was the one who

said I was divorced after every kind of effort on my part to keep seeing her

after she had her horrible outbursts.

>

> It was like she kept testing me to see how much I would put up with. Like a

test of my love for her. Like she is a seven year old child. Sigh. It's so

draining.

>

> So all of the old confusions and emotions are there, but I'm not really

feeling them as acutely as I did in the past. I don't know if it's utter denial

or perhaps I have moved on in my journey and finally realise that I can't fix

her and that I'm not willing to be treated like it any more.

>

> Whatever the case, I'm just trying to get on with things and enjoy life with

my partner and baby. It feels really good and liberating on the one hand(mainly

because I am facing up to the reality of our relationship and I am not enmeshed

in denial and making excuses for her any more), but on the other it's a constant

effort to stay on top of it cause it's always there at the back of my mind-

questioning, worry, self doubt, sadness and anxiety about the future.

>

> For instance, I find myself getting jumpy when I get a text message and I'm

already starting to panic about the Christmas period looming. That's a serious

trigger for her and to make it even more fought with the prospect of crazy,

she's not talking to any of her five siblings.

>

> Well, I'm not really sure what my aim was with this post. I guess I just

wanted to touch base, say hi and thank you all very, very much:)

> Oh, and of course get some stuff off my chest, most of which I didn't even

know was there

>

> I hope this finds you all in strength and peace.

>

> With warmth,

>

> Lynda

>

> P.S

> Does anyone else's Nada/Fada use their full name to refer to themselves?

> Mine always addressed herself with her full name, including her middle name

when she left messages on the answering machine- like she was saying " so there! "

or was trying to prove that she really did exist!

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Hon, Great to hear from you. Yes, we all need a break once in a while. To

answer your question - yes it was that bad, yes you were abused, yes you

deserve better and yes you should continue to fight to take care of

yourself. The experience at therapy was just the old family script replaying

in your head. Its amazing how well they program us.

As for Christmas, what I would do is take some time. And sit down, and think

about what YOU really want to do. And then figure out your resources. And

just do what YOU want, and screw them. I've been doing that every year for

the last 8 (with the exception of one year with the FOO came over and I got

mildly drunk to deal with them ha ha). Some things I've done on Christmas -

gone hunting for wild horses (yes we have them around here), built my own

gingerbread house, from mixing the dough to cutting out the shapes I wanted

to laughing my ass off when the dog ate it, to \going to see the new

Twilight movie on Thanksgiving and then making chili.

So it doesn't need to be expensive. It just needs to be satisfying to you as

a person. It's actually kind of a fun exercise. I hope you'll try it with me

and share your thoughts. I think this year we might tackle making a Handmade

Christmas for a needy family or school with our friends - tree, ornaments,

presents, how to lessons for kids. Sounds so fulfilling to me! I also think

we are going to revisit the gingerbread house.

One thing I love is that you are thinking about it now and making plans so

that you don't end up letting someone else decide for you. good job!

XOXO Girlscout

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 6:16 AM, shirleyspawn wrote:

>

>

>

> Hi, Lynda - good to hear from you!

>

> I'm wondering if part of that " numbness " you describe could be just a lack

> of pain? Or maybe it's the kind of exhaustion that follows a surge of

> adrenaline. If you've been operating in " stress mode " for a long time, when

> things calm down and the stress reaction stops, you could feel really worn

> out. It may feel funny to have a big gap where WWIII used to be! But you've

> got plenty of material to fill that gap with positive feelings and

> activities - it's just going to take a little time to rebuild the

> " infrastructure. "

>

> As to the approaching holidays - if you're NC, you don't have to change

> just because there's a holiday. One thing you could do is to make

> alternative plans NOW. Plan a trip, or plan to do something that will make

> it impossible for you, your partner and child to attend the family

> get-togethers. Since your child is young, this is a perfect opportunity to

> start your own traditions. Otherwise, it will become a " family tradition "

> that you haul your family to whatever crapfest Nada demands, and you'll be

> dreading Christmas for the next twenty years. Using grandchildren to

> manipulate adult kids is a time-honored technique, so head her off at the

> pass!

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > Dear friends,

> >

> > I've been absent from these pages for a while because I've needed some

> time out from all of this. Even though it's been well needed time out, I

> often find myself wondering how everyone is doing. I feel so grateful to

> have found this site and wanted to thank everyone for their encouragement,

> support and advice, particularly during the last " incident " when mother came

> and pulled out pot plants and threw them across my yard, denied that she had

> done it and then called and messaged my house until 2 in the morning.

> >

> > I had a few obscure messages after the event and then nothing for a

> couple of weeks, so I guess I'm N.C for real. It's quite strange, a few

> months ago when I found this site, I wouldn't have dreamed that I would be

> here. I never imagined the possibility of not having her in my life.

> >

> > I feel really strange about it. Mostly it feels good and I am utterly

> relieved.

> >

> > Well mostly...

> >

> > I also feel really numb and detached, which alarms me somewhat. I am

> scared of emotions lurking beneath the surface. I have moments of massive

> self doubt, where I wonder if I have done the wrong thing. Am I the selfish,

> self obsessed person she says I am etc. etc.

> >

> > I also have real trouble recalling things that she has said/done over the

> years. Does anyone else have that same experience? I think it has been my

> coping mechanism (maybe it really is for the best ha, ha!).

> > I recently had yet another experience of trying to explain my situation

> to a psychologist and I was really vague on the detail and at the end of the

> session I felt like I came across as a petty brat who had had a fight with

> my parent and couldn't find it in my heart to forgive her.

> >

> > This vagueness makes it really hard to stay resolute in my thinking at

> times. I start to wonder if I have over-reacted. I also think this sometimes

> when I read other posts on here, by people who really did have a much harder

> time than I ever did and I start to feel like I'm just being a drama queen.

> >

> > I know this not to be the case really. I have friends and family who

> constantly affirm that her behaviour is utterly crazy. Also, she was the one

> who said I was divorced after every kind of effort on my part to keep seeing

> her after she had her horrible outbursts.

> >

> > It was like she kept testing me to see how much I would put up with. Like

> a test of my love for her. Like she is a seven year old child. Sigh. It's so

> draining.

> >

> > So all of the old confusions and emotions are there, but I'm not really

> feeling them as acutely as I did in the past. I don't know if it's utter

> denial or perhaps I have moved on in my journey and finally realise that I

> can't fix her and that I'm not willing to be treated like it any more.

> >

> > Whatever the case, I'm just trying to get on with things and enjoy life

> with my partner and baby. It feels really good and liberating on the one

> hand(mainly because I am facing up to the reality of our relationship and I

> am not enmeshed in denial and making excuses for her any more), but on the

> other it's a constant effort to stay on top of it cause it's always there at

> the back of my mind- questioning, worry, self doubt, sadness and anxiety

> about the future.

> >

> > For instance, I find myself getting jumpy when I get a text message and

> I'm already starting to panic about the Christmas period looming. That's a

> serious trigger for her and to make it even more fought with the prospect of

> crazy, she's not talking to any of her five siblings.

> >

> > Well, I'm not really sure what my aim was with this post. I guess I just

> wanted to touch base, say hi and thank you all very, very much:)

> > Oh, and of course get some stuff off my chest, most of which I didn't

> even know was there

> >

> > I hope this finds you all in strength and peace.

> >

> > With warmth,

> >

> > Lynda

> >

> > P.S

> > Does anyone else's Nada/Fada use their full name to refer to themselves?

> > Mine always addressed herself with her full name, including her middle

> name when she left messages on the answering machine- like she was saying

> " so there! " or was trying to prove that she really did exist!

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Memory loss is a normal symptom of post TRAUMATIC STRESS disorder. What we have

endured, I say again, is ***traumatic stress!***

Interestingly, there is one medical definition more severe than PTSD, called

Acute Stress Disorder. Wikipedia has this haunting observation to offer:

The symptoms show great variation but typically include an initial state of

" daze " , with some constriction of the field of consciousness and narrowing of

attention, inability to comprehend stimuli, and disorientation.

This state may be quickly followed by either further withdrawal from the

surrounding situation (to the extent of a dissociative stupor), or by agitation

and overeactivity, anxiety, impaired judgement, confusion, detachment, and

depression. Autonomic signs of panic anxiety (tachycardia, sweating, flushing)

are also commonly present.

The **symptoms** [not the stress, ed.] usually appear within minutes of the

impact of the stressful stimulus or event, and disappear within 2–3 days (often

within hours). Partial or complete amnesia for the episode may be present.

--

Interesting, eh? PTSD suffices for soldiers who endure repeated shellings for

comparatively short periods of time. We have endured repeated shellings for

years upon years, without a buddy in the trenches in many cases, and without

let-up. I think that qualifies as a level higher severity than PTSD.

Don't discount it, don't doubt it. I'm sure Nada would hurry to discount it.

Instead let it remind you why you have chosen the course you are now taking. To

get away from shelling is good.

As Doug says, May we all heal,

Tina

> >

> > Dear friends,

> >

> > I've been absent from these pages for a while because I've needed some time

out from all of this. Even though it's been well needed time out, I often find

myself wondering how everyone is doing. I feel so grateful to have found this

site and wanted to thank everyone for their encouragement, support and advice,

particularly during the last " incident " when mother came and pulled out pot

plants and threw them across my yard, denied that she had done it and then

called and messaged my house until 2 in the morning.

> >

> > I had a few obscure messages after the event and then nothing for a couple

of weeks, so I guess I'm N.C for real. It's quite strange, a few months ago when

I found this site, I wouldn't have dreamed that I would be here. I never

imagined the possibility of not having her in my life.

> >

> > I feel really strange about it. Mostly it feels good and I am utterly

relieved.

> >

> > Well mostly...

> >

> > I also feel really numb and detached, which alarms me somewhat. I am scared

of emotions lurking beneath the surface. I have moments of massive self doubt,

where I wonder if I have done the wrong thing. Am I the selfish, self obsessed

person she says I am etc. etc.

> >

> > I also have real trouble recalling things that she has said/done over the

years. Does anyone else have that same experience? I think it has been my coping

mechanism (maybe it really is for the best ha, ha!).

> > I recently had yet another experience of trying to explain my situation to a

psychologist and I was really vague on the detail and at the end of the session

I felt like I came across as a petty brat who had had a fight with my parent and

couldn't find it in my heart to forgive her.

> >

> > This vagueness makes it really hard to stay resolute in my thinking at

times. I start to wonder if I have over-reacted. I also think this sometimes

when I read other posts on here, by people who really did have a much harder

time than I ever did and I start to feel like I'm just being a drama queen.

> >

> > I know this not to be the case really. I have friends and family who

constantly affirm that her behaviour is utterly crazy. Also, she was the one who

said I was divorced after every kind of effort on my part to keep seeing her

after she had her horrible outbursts.

> >

> > It was like she kept testing me to see how much I would put up with. Like a

test of my love for her. Like she is a seven year old child. Sigh. It's so

draining.

> >

> > So all of the old confusions and emotions are there, but I'm not really

feeling them as acutely as I did in the past. I don't know if it's utter denial

or perhaps I have moved on in my journey and finally realise that I can't fix

her and that I'm not willing to be treated like it any more.

> >

> > Whatever the case, I'm just trying to get on with things and enjoy life with

my partner and baby. It feels really good and liberating on the one hand(mainly

because I am facing up to the reality of our relationship and I am not enmeshed

in denial and making excuses for her any more), but on the other it's a constant

effort to stay on top of it cause it's always there at the back of my mind-

questioning, worry, self doubt, sadness and anxiety about the future.

> >

> > For instance, I find myself getting jumpy when I get a text message and I'm

already starting to panic about the Christmas period looming. That's a serious

trigger for her and to make it even more fought with the prospect of crazy,

she's not talking to any of her five siblings.

> >

> > Well, I'm not really sure what my aim was with this post. I guess I just

wanted to touch base, say hi and thank you all very, very much:)

> > Oh, and of course get some stuff off my chest, most of which I didn't even

know was there

> >

> > I hope this finds you all in strength and peace.

> >

> > With warmth,

> >

> > Lynda

> >

> > P.S

> > Does anyone else's Nada/Fada use their full name to refer to themselves?

> > Mine always addressed herself with her full name, including her middle name

when she left messages on the answering machine- like she was saying " so there! "

or was trying to prove that she really did exist!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Although its not formally recognized disorder at this time (by the American

Psychiatric Association; its not in the DSM-IV) it would appear that " Complex

Post Traumatic Stress Disorder " or C-PTSD, is gaining support to be added as

another form of or sub-category of PTSD.

PTSD can occur after being exposed to one (!) single traumatic incident (a car

accident, being taken hostage at gunpoint, witnessing a violent death, etc.)

whereas C-PTSD is " chronic repetitive trauma " including " ... sexual abuse

(especially child sexual abuse), physical abuse, emotional abuse, domestic

violence or torture. "

Being a soldier in combat for years, being held prisoner for years, growing up

in a war zone, or growing up in the care of mentally

ill/substance-abusing/emotionally or physically violent parents would certainly

qualify.

I'm posting a link to the article about this at Wikipedia. Interestingly the

author(s) tie in the condition with both attachment disorder and borderline pd

in the cause-and-effect areas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_post-traumatic_stress_disorder

-Annie

> > >

> > > Dear friends,

> > >

> > > I've been absent from these pages for a while because I've needed some

time out from all of this. Even though it's been well needed time out, I often

find myself wondering how everyone is doing. I feel so grateful to have found

this site and wanted to thank everyone for their encouragement, support and

advice, particularly during the last " incident " when mother came and pulled out

pot plants and threw them across my yard, denied that she had done it and then

called and messaged my house until 2 in the morning.

> > >

> > > I had a few obscure messages after the event and then nothing for a couple

of weeks, so I guess I'm N.C for real. It's quite strange, a few months ago when

I found this site, I wouldn't have dreamed that I would be here. I never

imagined the possibility of not having her in my life.

> > >

> > > I feel really strange about it. Mostly it feels good and I am utterly

relieved.

> > >

> > > Well mostly...

> > >

> > > I also feel really numb and detached, which alarms me somewhat. I am

scared of emotions lurking beneath the surface. I have moments of massive self

doubt, where I wonder if I have done the wrong thing. Am I the selfish, self

obsessed person she says I am etc. etc.

> > >

> > > I also have real trouble recalling things that she has said/done over the

years. Does anyone else have that same experience? I think it has been my coping

mechanism (maybe it really is for the best ha, ha!).

> > > I recently had yet another experience of trying to explain my situation to

a psychologist and I was really vague on the detail and at the end of the

session I felt like I came across as a petty brat who had had a fight with my

parent and couldn't find it in my heart to forgive her.

> > >

> > > This vagueness makes it really hard to stay resolute in my thinking at

times. I start to wonder if I have over-reacted. I also think this sometimes

when I read other posts on here, by people who really did have a much harder

time than I ever did and I start to feel like I'm just being a drama queen.

> > >

> > > I know this not to be the case really. I have friends and family who

constantly affirm that her behaviour is utterly crazy. Also, she was the one who

said I was divorced after every kind of effort on my part to keep seeing her

after she had her horrible outbursts.

> > >

> > > It was like she kept testing me to see how much I would put up with. Like

a test of my love for her. Like she is a seven year old child. Sigh. It's so

draining.

> > >

> > > So all of the old confusions and emotions are there, but I'm not really

feeling them as acutely as I did in the past. I don't know if it's utter denial

or perhaps I have moved on in my journey and finally realise that I can't fix

her and that I'm not willing to be treated like it any more.

> > >

> > > Whatever the case, I'm just trying to get on with things and enjoy life

with my partner and baby. It feels really good and liberating on the one

hand(mainly because I am facing up to the reality of our relationship and I am

not enmeshed in denial and making excuses for her any more), but on the other

it's a constant effort to stay on top of it cause it's always there at the back

of my mind- questioning, worry, self doubt, sadness and anxiety about the

future.

> > >

> > > For instance, I find myself getting jumpy when I get a text message and

I'm already starting to panic about the Christmas period looming. That's a

serious trigger for her and to make it even more fought with the prospect of

crazy, she's not talking to any of her five siblings.

> > >

> > > Well, I'm not really sure what my aim was with this post. I guess I just

wanted to touch base, say hi and thank you all very, very much:)

> > > Oh, and of course get some stuff off my chest, most of which I didn't even

know was there

> > >

> > > I hope this finds you all in strength and peace.

> > >

> > > With warmth,

> > >

> > > Lynda

> > >

> > > P.S

> > > Does anyone else's Nada/Fada use their full name to refer to themselves?

> > > Mine always addressed herself with her full name, including her middle

name when she left messages on the answering machine- like she was saying " so

there! " or was trying to prove that she really did exist!

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Way to make a girl feel better! Thanks all

I think I have given up on trying to find a psychiatrist who understands. After

all, the knowledge, support and affirmation that I get here is just amazing and

doesn't cost $150 an hour!

, I think you were right about getting used to that gap where ww11 used to

be. I have a quite unrelenting sense of impending doom and it will probably take

some adjusting to the lack of drama.

Girlscout, thanks heaps for your validation- I seem to need that a lot, which

makes me feel quite pathetic, but I really do find it hard to trust my own

feelings, which is something I'm working on Thanks also for your Christmas

ideas

Joe and echobabe1, I could really relate to the way you described filtering out

the parts of the behaviour that just don't compute. I too have set my brain

on an image and disregarded what my emotions have said. I have also time and

time again forgotten why I shouldn't trust her as the cycle has repeated over

and over again.

, I am similar in that I can't really recall anything much before around

age 16. I have a best friend who remembers everything about our childhood and

school life etc and I always joke about how I can't remember much- not even

school teachers I had and so on. I have thought myself to have some kind of

brain defect too. It really disturbs me sometimes, but mostly I try and laugh it

off. There must be some suppressed memories happening there!

Tina and Annie, thanks for the info about C-PTSD. How interesting! I had a read

of the symptoms and think you are really onto something there! Annie thanks also

for your insight into the trauma bond. There is definitely elements of that at

play.

I really appreciate everyone's feedback. It has been great. I'm feeling a bit

shaky about everything at the moment.

I was driving back from a friend's house last night and I wasn't quite feeling

myself and I imagined driving to her house for a cup of tea. It's funny, I

wasn't missing her particular brand of love as I used to (I used to crave her

love because it always felt so incredibly gentle and intuitive but now

retrospectively it feels more manipulative and suffocating), but more the idea

of what I wanted it to be like. It was a really confronting moment of realising

that things are so irrepperable that I can't just go and have a tearful hug and

apology and move on. It can never be like that.

I even caught myself in the act of bargaining, where I started to downplay what

happened, as though I was leading to a scenario in my head where I could have

that tearful hug and apology.

I started feeling so sorry for myself. I felt ripped off that I didn't have a

space where I could go to relax and feel myself, as I imagine people from more

functional families feel when they visit home- that sense of history and

unconditional love. I used to have it in a way, even if it was fleeting and so

BPD flavoured. I think that's what you were getting at with the trauma bond

stuff isn't it Annie? The idea of being so attached to familiarity, even if it

is so disfunctional.

But I'm lucky. I came home to a lovely baby and partner and I am just trying to

focus on these lovely blessings now. That is my grounding in this.

And I hope that she finds peace and happiness in her journey as well.

Well, thanks again fro reading and your responses lovely people!

With warmth,

Lynda

[Guest guest]

I also have a hard time remembering some of the bad events from my childhood, at

least the specifics. There are a few highlights, perhaps lowlights would be a

better term, often that it's hard to assign dates, times, and places to events.

For example, I clearly remember the details of the day I was disowned, but the

many days that nada drove me to an extra-curricular activity with her left hand

on the steering wheel while hitting me with her right fist all blend into one.

I know it didn't happen every time, but I also know it wasn't a one time thing.

Mainly I just remember the feeling of dread and hyper-vigilance as I and my

siblings tried to " keep mom from exploding " .

This forgetfulness allowed me to paint a fairly benign picture of my childhood

and maintain the fiction that I had a loving mother who just needed extra

understanding from me because of the abuse she had suffered as a child. Then I

grew up and began to notice that other people's parents didn't act like mine.

All the crazy things that happened after I became an adult didn't exactly " jog

my memory " , they just caused me to see things in a different light. I began to

realize, slowly, that it was NOT normal to disown a child. That it wasn't right

to hit your children, even if you never left any marks. That being sworn at and

insulted regularly WAS abuse.

I too, often feel like I'm just being a petty brat who can't forgive my mother,

(even when my clergyman advised me to go LC with my mother). Part of being a KO

is being raised to believe that nada's needs (and her wants and wishes) come

first and that whatever reality she has created is the real, and you just

misinterpreted, imagined, or outright made it up.

You didn't make it up. It happened. It's just that much of the & ^*! you

experienced has blurred together so you can't isolate single memories very

easily. It's frustrating to be robbed of the evidence of the crimes against

you, but at the same time, there's no court on earth in which to plead your

case, so maybe it's a blessing not to be able to remember every insult, every

hurt.

Just some of my random thoughts.

I wish you all the best,

Anne