Guest guest Posted September 16, 2010 Report Share Posted September 16, 2010 That to me is one of the worst aspects of being raised by a narcissist or bpd/narcissist: when all the narcissist's or bpd/narcissist's attention is focused on their own self it robs their child of a sense of self-hood, of being worthy of being treated like any other regular human being. We are raised to believe that our feelings don't count, or worse: maybe we don't count because we're lower than dirt. The parent's job is to mirror the child and give the child a sense of who he or she is in this world, to recognize the child's humanity and worthiness and individuality... so if that never happens or rarely happens, its a horrible thing to do to a child. The message is, " You are nobody. You are nothing. You barely exist for me, you are so unimportant that you're lucky I remember your name. " And this lack of basic parenting can have long-term consequences (as a lot of us have found out.) The child can only assume that he or she is somehow badly flawed, so defective and disappointing that he or she is not deserving of love. -Annie > > > > > > My therapist is really wanting me to discover who I am without my mom's voice in > > my head telling me what a fat, selfish, uncaring, foolish, ugly slob I am. I > > have such a low self esteem because of what I have always been told about > > myself. For instance, what weight would I be happy at? (without my mom's voice > > telling me I need to be her anorexic size 0) It is difficult for me to tell?? I > > have never formed my own opinions on things like weight because it was pounded > > into me since I was a tiny girl that the most important thing was to be thin... > > > > Now, being slightly overweight causes great depression for me... But, > > realitically, I have had four boys... Of course I am going to have a stomach > > with extra skin that wont go away... My mom always laughs at my breasts... (I > > breast fed all my sons for 1 year each) and my breasts are a little saggy now... > > She makes fun and says that if I dont get implants I will need to start buying > > panty hose to use for bras... > > > > How does one build a self-esteem at the age of 31 without her NADA's voice > > constantly in her head when its been there since she was born?... Personally, I > > do not agree with all the plastic surgery my NADA goes through... I want to > > learn to be happy with what God gave me... I want to be happy with the saggy > > breasts that allowed me to breast feed my sons... > > > > Do any of you find yourselves trying to figure out who you would like to be or > > who you are (and being happy) when that is against everything youve ever been > > taught about yourself? I dont know about you but as a young child I thought my > > NADA knew it all... Dont all small children look to their parents for the > > answers? So how do you learn as an adult to throw all that rubbish in the can > > and re-create an identity for yourself? Has anyone found something that worked > > well in getting Nada's thoughts of you out of your head and creating a > > self-identity based on what makes you happy? And what does make me happy? I have > > always lived for HER happiness... NOT MINE! What does make me happy???? Good > > question...!!! I would love any thoughts! > > jen > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2010 Report Share Posted September 17, 2010 I wonder who I am too. It's a shock to realize in some aspects I don't even know. I mean, I *think* I know myself, but if I truly do why am I so uncomfortable with every decision I make, second-guessing everything and over-analyzing to the point where I lose a whole night's sleep. Over small things too! What I want, and what my goal is, is to know myself, faults and all, except myself and be confident and comfortable in my own skin. What I would give to be comfortable with myself... Am I talking about knowing myself or accepting myself? Or is that the same thing? What does your therapist recommend to help you figure this out? > > > My therapist is really wanting me to discover who I am without my mom's voice in > my head telling me what a fat, selfish, uncaring, foolish, ugly slob I am. I > have such a low self esteem because of what I have always been told about > myself. For instance, what weight would I be happy at? (without my mom's voice > telling me I need to be her anorexic size 0) It is difficult for me to tell?? I > have never formed my own opinions on things like weight because it was pounded > into me since I was a tiny girl that the most important thing was to be thin... > > Now, being slightly overweight causes great depression for me... But, > realitically, I have had four boys... Of course I am going to have a stomach > with extra skin that wont go away... My mom always laughs at my breasts... (I > breast fed all my sons for 1 year each) and my breasts are a little saggy now... > She makes fun and says that if I dont get implants I will need to start buying > panty hose to use for bras... > > How does one build a self-esteem at the age of 31 without her NADA's voice > constantly in her head when its been there since she was born?... Personally, I > do not agree with all the plastic surgery my NADA goes through... I want to > learn to be happy with what God gave me... I want to be happy with the saggy > breasts that allowed me to breast feed my sons... > > Do any of you find yourselves trying to figure out who you would like to be or > who you are (and being happy) when that is against everything youve ever been > taught about yourself? I dont know about you but as a young child I thought my > NADA knew it all... Dont all small children look to their parents for the > answers? So how do you learn as an adult to throw all that rubbish in the can > and re-create an identity for yourself? Has anyone found something that worked > well in getting Nada's thoughts of you out of your head and creating a > self-identity based on what makes you happy? And what does make me happy? I have > always lived for HER happiness... NOT MINE! What does make me happy???? Good > question...!!! I would love any thoughts! > jen > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2010 Report Share Posted September 17, 2010 The only way that I have discovered who I was, was to break off contact. I have limited contact with my NPD father and his psycho BPD wife even. I throw myself into things I like, or think I will like. I've stopped trying to get their approval for everything, or thinking about if they would be happy if i did " x, y or z " . > > > My therapist is really wanting me to discover who I am without my mom's voice in > my head telling me what a fat, selfish, uncaring, foolish, ugly slob I am. I > have such a low self esteem because of what I have always been told about > myself. For instance, what weight would I be happy at? (without my mom's voice > telling me I need to be her anorexic size 0) It is difficult for me to tell?? I > have never formed my own opinions on things like weight because it was pounded > into me since I was a tiny girl that the most important thing was to be thin... > > Now, being slightly overweight causes great depression for me... But, > realitically, I have had four boys... Of course I am going to have a stomach > with extra skin that wont go away... My mom always laughs at my breasts... (I > breast fed all my sons for 1 year each) and my breasts are a little saggy now... > She makes fun and says that if I dont get implants I will need to start buying > panty hose to use for bras... > > How does one build a self-esteem at the age of 31 without her NADA's voice > constantly in her head when its been there since she was born?... Personally, I > do not agree with all the plastic surgery my NADA goes through... I want to > learn to be happy with what God gave me... I want to be happy with the saggy > breasts that allowed me to breast feed my sons... > > Do any of you find yourselves trying to figure out who you would like to be or > who you are (and being happy) when that is against everything youve ever been > taught about yourself? I dont know about you but as a young child I thought my > NADA knew it all... Dont all small children look to their parents for the > answers? So how do you learn as an adult to throw all that rubbish in the can > and re-create an identity for yourself? Has anyone found something that worked > well in getting Nada's thoughts of you out of your head and creating a > self-identity based on what makes you happy? And what does make me happy? I have > always lived for HER happiness... NOT MINE! What does make me happy???? Good > question...!!! I would love any thoughts! > jen > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2010 Report Share Posted September 17, 2010 That sounds good. Also maybe trust yourself more. Make the decision and stick to it and believe in it. If you are wrong so what? You did the best you could with the info you were given. I am going to try to do that. Not worry about if other approve. That's a big issue w/ me. > > > > > > My therapist is really wanting me to discover who I am without my mom's voice in > > my head telling me what a fat, selfish, uncaring, foolish, ugly slob I am. I > > have such a low self esteem because of what I have always been told about > > myself. For instance, what weight would I be happy at? (without my mom's voice > > telling me I need to be her anorexic size 0) It is difficult for me to tell?? I > > have never formed my own opinions on things like weight because it was pounded > > into me since I was a tiny girl that the most important thing was to be thin... > > > > Now, being slightly overweight causes great depression for me... But, > > realitically, I have had four boys... Of course I am going to have a stomach > > with extra skin that wont go away... My mom always laughs at my breasts... (I > > breast fed all my sons for 1 year each) and my breasts are a little saggy now... > > She makes fun and says that if I dont get implants I will need to start buying > > panty hose to use for bras... > > > > How does one build a self-esteem at the age of 31 without her NADA's voice > > constantly in her head when its been there since she was born?... Personally, I > > do not agree with all the plastic surgery my NADA goes through... I want to > > learn to be happy with what God gave me... I want to be happy with the saggy > > breasts that allowed me to breast feed my sons... > > > > Do any of you find yourselves trying to figure out who you would like to be or > > who you are (and being happy) when that is against everything youve ever been > > taught about yourself? I dont know about you but as a young child I thought my > > NADA knew it all... Dont all small children look to their parents for the > > answers? So how do you learn as an adult to throw all that rubbish in the can > > and re-create an identity for yourself? Has anyone found something that worked > > well in getting Nada's thoughts of you out of your head and creating a > > self-identity based on what makes you happy? And what does make me happy? I have > > always lived for HER happiness... NOT MINE! What does make me happy???? Good > > question...!!! I would love any thoughts! > > jen > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2010 Report Share Posted September 24, 2010 basically, my therapist wants me to really focus on what I like... What actually feels good to me... what makes me happy.... without any outside voices skewing my decisions... Ask myself why I am doing it... is it for my pleasure? she really stresses journaling.... It is a tough concept for me because my decisions have always been made to what she would decide for me... Even this evening I went to a jewlery party and felt like I should ask my mom what looked good on me and I didnt buy anything she didnt like (even if I did) ... crazy!! > > > > > > My therapist is really wanting me to discover who I am without my mom's voice in > > my head telling me what a fat, selfish, uncaring, foolish, ugly slob I am. I > > have such a low self esteem because of what I have always been told about > > myself. For instance, what weight would I be happy at? (without my mom's voice > > telling me I need to be her anorexic size 0) It is difficult for me to tell?? I > > have never formed my own opinions on things like weight because it was pounded > > into me since I was a tiny girl that the most important thing was to be thin... > > > > Now, being slightly overweight causes great depression for me... But, > > realitically, I have had four boys... Of course I am going to have a stomach > > with extra skin that wont go away... My mom always laughs at my breasts... (I > > breast fed all my sons for 1 year each) and my breasts are a little saggy now... > > She makes fun and says that if I dont get implants I will need to start buying > > panty hose to use for bras... > > > > How does one build a self-esteem at the age of 31 without her NADA's voice > > constantly in her head when its been there since she was born?... Personally, I > > do not agree with all the plastic surgery my NADA goes through... I want to > > learn to be happy with what God gave me... I want to be happy with the saggy > > breasts that allowed me to breast feed my sons... > > > > Do any of you find yourselves trying to figure out who you would like to be or > > who you are (and being happy) when that is against everything youve ever been > > taught about yourself? I dont know about you but as a young child I thought my > > NADA knew it all... Dont all small children look to their parents for the > > answers? So how do you learn as an adult to throw all that rubbish in the can > > and re-create an identity for yourself? Has anyone found something that worked > > well in getting Nada's thoughts of you out of your head and creating a > > self-identity based on what makes you happy? And what does make me happy? I have > > always lived for HER happiness... NOT MINE! What does make me happy???? Good > > question...!!! I would love any thoughts! > > jen > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2010 Report Share Posted September 24, 2010 Good job! I wish I had that bravery and ambition... > > > > > > My therapist is really wanting me to discover who I am without my mom's voice in > > my head telling me what a fat, selfish, uncaring, foolish, ugly slob I am. I > > have such a low self esteem because of what I have always been told about > > myself. For instance, what weight would I be happy at? (without my mom's voice > > telling me I need to be her anorexic size 0) It is difficult for me to tell?? I > > have never formed my own opinions on things like weight because it was pounded > > into me since I was a tiny girl that the most important thing was to be thin... > > > > Now, being slightly overweight causes great depression for me... But, > > realitically, I have had four boys... Of course I am going to have a stomach > > with extra skin that wont go away... My mom always laughs at my breasts... (I > > breast fed all my sons for 1 year each) and my breasts are a little saggy now... > > She makes fun and says that if I dont get implants I will need to start buying > > panty hose to use for bras... > > > > How does one build a self-esteem at the age of 31 without her NADA's voice > > constantly in her head when its been there since she was born?... Personally, I > > do not agree with all the plastic surgery my NADA goes through... I want to > > learn to be happy with what God gave me... I want to be happy with the saggy > > breasts that allowed me to breast feed my sons... > > > > Do any of you find yourselves trying to figure out who you would like to be or > > who you are (and being happy) when that is against everything youve ever been > > taught about yourself? I dont know about you but as a young child I thought my > > NADA knew it all... Dont all small children look to their parents for the > > answers? So how do you learn as an adult to throw all that rubbish in the can > > and re-create an identity for yourself? Has anyone found something that worked > > well in getting Nada's thoughts of you out of your head and creating a > > self-identity based on what makes you happy? And what does make me happy? I have > > always lived for HER happiness... NOT MINE! What does make me happy???? Good > > question...!!! I would love any thoughts! > > jen > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2010 Report Share Posted September 24, 2010 that sounds good to me... just make a decision and believe in it... so what if others dont like it... > > > > > > > > > My therapist is really wanting me to discover who I am without my mom's voice in > > > my head telling me what a fat, selfish, uncaring, foolish, ugly slob I am. I > > > have such a low self esteem because of what I have always been told about > > > myself. For instance, what weight would I be happy at? (without my mom's voice > > > telling me I need to be her anorexic size 0) It is difficult for me to tell?? I > > > have never formed my own opinions on things like weight because it was pounded > > > into me since I was a tiny girl that the most important thing was to be thin... > > > > > > Now, being slightly overweight causes great depression for me... But, > > > realitically, I have had four boys... Of course I am going to have a stomach > > > with extra skin that wont go away... My mom always laughs at my breasts... (I > > > breast fed all my sons for 1 year each) and my breasts are a little saggy now... > > > She makes fun and says that if I dont get implants I will need to start buying > > > panty hose to use for bras... > > > > > > How does one build a self-esteem at the age of 31 without her NADA's voice > > > constantly in her head when its been there since she was born?... Personally, I > > > do not agree with all the plastic surgery my NADA goes through... I want to > > > learn to be happy with what God gave me... I want to be happy with the saggy > > > breasts that allowed me to breast feed my sons... > > > > > > Do any of you find yourselves trying to figure out who you would like to be or > > > who you are (and being happy) when that is against everything youve ever been > > > taught about yourself? I dont know about you but as a young child I thought my > > > NADA knew it all... Dont all small children look to their parents for the > > > answers? So how do you learn as an adult to throw all that rubbish in the can > > > and re-create an identity for yourself? Has anyone found something that worked > > > well in getting Nada's thoughts of you out of your head and creating a > > > self-identity based on what makes you happy? And what does make me happy? I have > > > always lived for HER happiness... NOT MINE! What does make me happy???? Good > > > question...!!! I would love any thoughts! > > > jen > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 My god her point of view is skewed. You have had FOUR CHILDREN. Four beautiful children. I am so sad that after giving birth to four children, this is all your mother can say to you. I think you are doing exactly what you need to be doing, you find a supportive place full of people just like you, who have crazy mothers, and you tell them and tell them and tell them what kinds of things are said to you, and allow yourself to be loved and supported like she should be doing, and be lifted up until you are able to support in yourself what you already know is true, that you have brought four lives into this world, and your body was the vessel through which that came about. That is a holy thing. I feel sad for her that she is that shallow, and negative, about such a beautiful thing...she's missing the whole point, and it's really tragic to think of existing in such a way. This woman is very sick. I am glad you have shared this and come here for support. I think maybe the worst thing any of us can do is to keep these thoughts to ourselves and allow them to resonate. Since our key nurturers are completely nuts, we have a duty to ourselves to get that nurturing somewhere else. By doing so, sharing the sickness and allowing people here to support you, you are honoring yourself at the highest level (not to mention helping a lot of us by letting us see the commonality of these behaviors). Congratulations on having given birth to four boys, that is amazing. > > > My therapist is really wanting me to discover who I am without my mom's voice in > my head telling me what a fat, selfish, uncaring, foolish, ugly slob I am. I > have such a low self esteem because of what I have always been told about > myself. For instance, what weight would I be happy at? (without my mom's voice > telling me I need to be her anorexic size 0) It is difficult for me to tell?? I > have never formed my own opinions on things like weight because it was pounded > into me since I was a tiny girl that the most important thing was to be thin... > > Now, being slightly overweight causes great depression for me... But, > realitically, I have had four boys... Of course I am going to have a stomach > with extra skin that wont go away... My mom always laughs at my breasts... (I > breast fed all my sons for 1 year each) and my breasts are a little saggy now... > She makes fun and says that if I dont get implants I will need to start buying > panty hose to use for bras... > > How does one build a self-esteem at the age of 31 without her NADA's voice > constantly in her head when its been there since she was born?... Personally, I > do not agree with all the plastic surgery my NADA goes through... I want to > learn to be happy with what God gave me... I want to be happy with the saggy > breasts that allowed me to breast feed my sons... > > Do any of you find yourselves trying to figure out who you would like to be or > who you are (and being happy) when that is against everything youve ever been > taught about yourself? I dont know about you but as a young child I thought my > NADA knew it all... Dont all small children look to their parents for the > answers? So how do you learn as an adult to throw all that rubbish in the can > and re-create an identity for yourself? Has anyone found something that worked > well in getting Nada's thoughts of you out of your head and creating a > self-identity based on what makes you happy? And what does make me happy? I have > always lived for HER happiness... NOT MINE! What does make me happy???? Good > question...!!! I would love any thoughts! > jen > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 One book that really helped me learn who I was, is " Approval Addiction " by Joyce Meyer; it's about overcoming your need to please everyone. My desire to jump in and make my parents 'happy' subsided real quick!!! Didn't realize I was doing that, but I was. They had trained me well to be the obedient, worthless, insecure daughter they always dreamed of!!! This book addresses all the issues we, as BPD children, deal with thru out our lives. It teaches us we are NOT flawed and unacceptable, and how to confront the controlling, manipulative people in our lives....without guilt. The other book that gave me back my confidence and helped me take control of my life was " Boundaries " by Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. Townsend. It's about when to say YES and when to say NO. It clearly shows us if we focus on others, we lose clarity about ourselves. That's why so many of us 'children of' BPD's don't really know who we are..........we've been trained to focus on them. good luck, I know and feel your pain. Laurie In a message dated 9/25/2010 12:50:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mamahintz@... writes: Good job! I wish I had that bravery and ambition... > > > > > > My therapist is really wanting me to discover who I am without my mom's voice in > > my head telling me what a fat, selfish, uncaring, foolish, ugly slob I am. I > > have such a low self esteem because of what I have always been told about > > myself. For instance, what weight would I be happy at? (without my mom's voice > > telling me I need to be her anorexic size 0) It is difficult for me to tell?? I > > have never formed my own opinions on things like weight because it was pounded > > into me since I was a tiny girl that the most important thing was to be thin... > > > > Now, being slightly overweight causes great depression for me... But, > > realitically, I have had four boys... Of course I am going to have a stomach > > with extra skin that wont go away... My mom always laughs at my breasts... (I > > breast fed all my sons for 1 year each) and my breasts are a little saggy now... > > She makes fun and says that if I dont get implants I will need to start buying > > panty hose to use for bras... > > > > How does one build a self-esteem at the age of 31 without her NADA's voice > > constantly in her head when its been there since she was born?... Personally, I > > do not agree with all the plastic surgery my NADA goes through... I want to > > learn to be happy with what God gave me... I want to be happy with the saggy > > breasts that allowed me to breast feed my sons... > > > > Do any of you find yourselves trying to figure out who you would like to be or > > who you are (and being happy) when that is against everything youve ever been > > taught about yourself? I dont know about you but as a young child I thought my > > NADA knew it all... Dont all small children look to their parents for the > > answers? So how do you learn as an adult to throw all that rubbish in the can > > and re-create an identity for yourself? Has anyone found something that worked > > well in getting Nada's thoughts of you out of your head and creating a > > self-identity based on what makes you happy? And what does make me happy? I have > > always lived for HER happiness... NOT MINE! What does make me happy???? Good > > question...!!! I would love any thoughts! > > jen > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 Joe, that was so nice of you... thank you! > > > > > > My therapist is really wanting me to discover who I am without my mom's voice in > > my head telling me what a fat, selfish, uncaring, foolish, ugly slob I am. I > > have such a low self esteem because of what I have always been told about > > myself. For instance, what weight would I be happy at? (without my mom's voice > > telling me I need to be her anorexic size 0) It is difficult for me to tell?? I > > have never formed my own opinions on things like weight because it was pounded > > into me since I was a tiny girl that the most important thing was to be thin... > > > > Now, being slightly overweight causes great depression for me... But, > > realitically, I have had four boys... Of course I am going to have a stomach > > with extra skin that wont go away... My mom always laughs at my breasts... (I > > breast fed all my sons for 1 year each) and my breasts are a little saggy now... > > She makes fun and says that if I dont get implants I will need to start buying > > panty hose to use for bras... > > > > How does one build a self-esteem at the age of 31 without her NADA's voice > > constantly in her head when its been there since she was born?... Personally, I > > do not agree with all the plastic surgery my NADA goes through... I want to > > learn to be happy with what God gave me... I want to be happy with the saggy > > breasts that allowed me to breast feed my sons... > > > > Do any of you find yourselves trying to figure out who you would like to be or > > who you are (and being happy) when that is against everything youve ever been > > taught about yourself? I dont know about you but as a young child I thought my > > NADA knew it all... Dont all small children look to their parents for the > > answers? So how do you learn as an adult to throw all that rubbish in the can > > and re-create an identity for yourself? Has anyone found something that worked > > well in getting Nada's thoughts of you out of your head and creating a > > self-identity based on what makes you happy? And what does make me happy? I have > > always lived for HER happiness... NOT MINE! What does make me happy???? Good > > question...!!! I would love any thoughts! > > jen > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 (by the way, I changed my screen name incase she ever finds this...) lol > > > > > > My therapist is really wanting me to discover who I am without my mom's voice in > > my head telling me what a fat, selfish, uncaring, foolish, ugly slob I am. I > > have such a low self esteem because of what I have always been told about > > myself. For instance, what weight would I be happy at? (without my mom's voice > > telling me I need to be her anorexic size 0) It is difficult for me to tell?? I > > have never formed my own opinions on things like weight because it was pounded > > into me since I was a tiny girl that the most important thing was to be thin... > > > > Now, being slightly overweight causes great depression for me... But, > > realitically, I have had four boys... Of course I am going to have a stomach > > with extra skin that wont go away... My mom always laughs at my breasts... (I > > breast fed all my sons for 1 year each) and my breasts are a little saggy now... > > She makes fun and says that if I dont get implants I will need to start buying > > panty hose to use for bras... > > > > How does one build a self-esteem at the age of 31 without her NADA's voice > > constantly in her head when its been there since she was born?... Personally, I > > do not agree with all the plastic surgery my NADA goes through... I want to > > learn to be happy with what God gave me... I want to be happy with the saggy > > breasts that allowed me to breast feed my sons... > > > > Do any of you find yourselves trying to figure out who you would like to be or > > who you are (and being happy) when that is against everything youve ever been > > taught about yourself? I dont know about you but as a young child I thought my > > NADA knew it all... Dont all small children look to their parents for the > > answers? So how do you learn as an adult to throw all that rubbish in the can > > and re-create an identity for yourself? Has anyone found something that worked > > well in getting Nada's thoughts of you out of your head and creating a > > self-identity based on what makes you happy? And what does make me happy? I have > > always lived for HER happiness... NOT MINE! What does make me happy???? Good > > question...!!! I would love any thoughts! > > jen > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 Annie, after reading the 2 books I previously mentioned, I knew I'd have to accept the consequences of probably losing their (my parents) " love " . When you start laying down boundaries with 'these people', it really makes them angry. Self-centered people get angry when someone tells them " no " . We have been saying " yes " to them out of FEAR, saying yes, when we wanted to say " no " .... out of fear; fear of loss of love or abandonment.. They think that to love means to always say 'yes " . They have no respect for anyone's " no " . That's why they moved out of our house. Now, they have each other to pick on every day....as it should be. There's no one that will tolerate their disgusting behavior. It used to be me, but praise God, it's not me anymore. Laurie In a message dated 9/25/2010 1:36:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, anuria-67854@... writes: It truly fascinates me how our bpd parents seem to *instinctively* hit on the exact mechanism to induce enmeshment from their child, unceasing and desperate efforts from their child to please them *and guilt in the child for not being pleasing enough.* They hit on the tactic of making us insecure by making us believe we are worthless. If the child is made to feel inadequate (defective, inferior) and unworthy of love and affection, the child will feel guilty for being so disappointing, will feel fear at the possibility of being discarded (after all, garbage gets thrown away) or replaced, and will try even more desperately and urgently to please the parents. What a win-win situation for the pd parents! By being withholding of praise and affection and very difficult to please they create a perpetual source of attention for themselves, an endless narcissistic supply, and all they have to do is toss the child a little bone now and then. This is just so cruel, so sadistic to do that to one's own child. Withholding approval and being chronically critical / fault-finding towards one's child is considered severe emotional abuse. And I'm willing to bet money that my nada felt justified in this, because from her point of view I had rejected her and made her feel inadequate and defective as a mother when I was an infant and toddler. So she was just giving tit for tat, so to speak. She has always shown this need to " get back at " me when she believed I was being critical or disrespectful toward her. Although she was/is also a " Jekyll and Hyde " type, and could appear loving, kind and thoughtful sometimes, more and more I'm coming to believe that the kind behavior was/is the mask, and the true, underlying feelings for me are and always have been resentment and anger. -Annie > > > > > > > > > My therapist is really wanting me to discover who I am without my > mom's voice in > > > my head telling me what a fat, selfish, uncaring, foolish, ugly slob I > am. I > > > have such a low self esteem because of what I have always been told > about > > > myself. For instance, what weight would I be happy at? (without my > mom's voice > > > telling me I need to be her anorexic size 0) It is difficult for me to > tell?? I > > > have never formed my own opinions on things like weight because it was > pounded > > > into me since I was a tiny girl that the most important thing was to > be thin... > > > > > > Now, being slightly overweight causes great depression for me... But, > > > realitically, I have had four boys... Of course I am going to have a > stomach > > > with extra skin that wont go away... My mom always laughs at my > breasts... (I > > > breast fed all my sons for 1 year each) and my breasts are a little > saggy now... > > > She makes fun and says that if I dont get implants I will need to > start buying > > > panty hose to use for bras... > > > > > > How does one build a self-esteem at the age of 31 without her NADA's > voice > > > constantly in her head when its been there since she was born?... > Personally, I > > > do not agree with all the plastic surgery my NADA goes through... I > want to > > > learn to be happy with what God gave me... I want to be happy with the > saggy > > > breasts that allowed me to breast feed my sons... > > > > > > Do any of you find yourselves trying to figure out who you would like > to be or > > > who you are (and being happy) when that is against everything youve > ever been > > > taught about yourself? I dont know about you but as a young child I > thought my > > > NADA knew it all... Dont all small children look to their parents for > the > > > answers? So how do you learn as an adult to throw all that rubbish in > the can > > > and re-create an identity for yourself? Has anyone found something > that worked > > > well in getting Nada's thoughts of you out of your head and creating a > > > self-identity based on what makes you happy? And what does make me > happy? I have > > > always lived for HER happiness... NOT MINE! What does make me > happy???? Good > > > question...!!! I would love any thoughts! > > > jen > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 She laughs at your breasts? Pokes fun at your body? What kind of intrusive, demeaning, ridiculous, bullying, humiliating, hateful, shockingly filthy thing is that? And she does this to her own daughter???? Oh. Yeah. Its BPD. There are just SOOOOO many things wrong with your nada's behavior, I can't list them all! That stuff is abuse. Pure and simple. It isn't designed to inform you or help you or give you any sane piece of information--it is designed to tear you down and humiliate you. It is gross, blatant abuse. It is used to harm you. Period. Her job is to be your mother, and to affirm you no matter what you weigh. ly, a good mom wouldn't care a bit about what you weigh, unless you were unhealthy. And, even if it was a problem, a good mom would SHUT UP about it. If you're grown up enough to raise 4 beautiful babies, you are certainly grown up enough to have your weight be your concern--not hers. If she were healthy and a true mother, she wouldn't do a single one of these things. She would celebrate your success (four breast-fed babies is an accomplishment, indeed) and be grateful you live well in this life. Those demeaning insults have everything to do with her crazy and nothing to do with your goodness. One of the aspects of claiming my own identity (which I'm also still trying to sort out myself) is getting a more realistic picture of who nada is. The more I can realize she's insane--and cruel as well--the more I can free myself up to find out who I am. And, strangely enough, it was hard to let go of the hatred voices in my head. They accomplished three things: 1) they held a " mommy " close who was always on the brink of abandoning me, and 2) protected me from realizing how horrible my mother really was, and 3) saving myself from a fight with her about who I was. No matter how horrid our mothers are, no one wants to readily admit that their own mother is a monster. I guess I'm saying is clinging to those nasty voices served a purpose, even if that purpose is sick coping. Also, it was a protection mechanism for me. Nada could sense success and self-esteem a mile away. Even if it was a quiet thought in my head that affirmed me, she seemed to sniff it out and attack me the next instant. Those " voices " in my head became a defense mechanism--if I could " pre-attack " myself before nada got her chance, it sometimes saved me from her. Or, at least, nada's attacks weren't a surprise. I could " pre-attack " myself and take the shock out of it when nada came at me out of nowhere. Sorry for ranting here. I can say this: You're on the right track. Asking these questions are hard, but you're doing the brave thing and starting to question and fight back. That's the first step, and sometimes that's the hardest. Be gentle on yourself, and know we are here for you in the process. This thing isn't bigger than you--of that I am sure. Blessings, Karla > > > My therapist is really wanting me to discover who I am without my mom's voice in > my head telling me what a fat, selfish, uncaring, foolish, ugly slob I am. I > have such a low self esteem because of what I have always been told about > myself. For instance, what weight would I be happy at? (without my mom's voice > telling me I need to be her anorexic size 0) It is difficult for me to tell?? I > have never formed my own opinions on things like weight because it was pounded > into me since I was a tiny girl that the most important thing was to be thin... > > Now, being slightly overweight causes great depression for me... But, > realitically, I have had four boys... Of course I am going to have a stomach > with extra skin that wont go away... My mom always laughs at my breasts... (I > breast fed all my sons for 1 year each) and my breasts are a little saggy now... > She makes fun and says that if I dont get implants I will need to start buying > panty hose to use for bras... > > How does one build a self-esteem at the age of 31 without her NADA's voice > constantly in her head when its been there since she was born?... Personally, I > do not agree with all the plastic surgery my NADA goes through... I want to > learn to be happy with what God gave me... I want to be happy with the saggy > breasts that allowed me to breast feed my sons... > > Do any of you find yourselves trying to figure out who you would like to be or > who you are (and being happy) when that is against everything youve ever been > taught about yourself? I dont know about you but as a young child I thought my > NADA knew it all... Dont all small children look to their parents for the > answers? So how do you learn as an adult to throw all that rubbish in the can > and re-create an identity for yourself? Has anyone found something that worked > well in getting Nada's thoughts of you out of your head and creating a > self-identity based on what makes you happy? And what does make me happy? I have > always lived for HER happiness... NOT MINE! What does make me happy???? Good > question...!!! I would love any thoughts! > jen > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 It truly fascinates me how our bpd parents seem to *instinctively* hit on the exact mechanism to induce enmeshment from their child, unceasing and desperate efforts from their child to please them *and guilt in the child for not being pleasing enough.* They hit on the tactic of making us insecure by making us believe we are worthless. If the child is made to feel inadequate (defective, inferior) and unworthy of love and affection, the child will feel guilty for being so disappointing, will feel fear at the possibility of being discarded (after all, garbage gets thrown away) or replaced, and will try even more desperately and urgently to please the parents. What a win-win situation for the pd parents! By being withholding of praise and affection and very difficult to please they create a perpetual source of attention for themselves, an endless narcissistic supply, and all they have to do is toss the child a little bone now and then. This is just so cruel, so sadistic to do that to one's own child. Withholding approval and being chronically critical / fault-finding towards one's child is considered severe emotional abuse. And I'm willing to bet money that my nada felt justified in this, because from her point of view I had rejected her and made her feel inadequate and defective as a mother when I was an infant and toddler. So she was just giving tit for tat, so to speak. She has always shown this need to " get back at " me when she believed I was being critical or disrespectful toward her. Although she was/is also a " Jekyll and Hyde " type, and could appear loving, kind and thoughtful sometimes, more and more I'm coming to believe that the kind behavior was/is the mask, and the true, underlying feelings for me are and always have been resentment and anger. -Annie > > > > > > > > > My therapist is really wanting me to discover who I am without my > mom's voice in > > > my head telling me what a fat, selfish, uncaring, foolish, ugly slob I > am. I > > > have such a low self esteem because of what I have always been told > about > > > myself. For instance, what weight would I be happy at? (without my > mom's voice > > > telling me I need to be her anorexic size 0) It is difficult for me to > tell?? I > > > have never formed my own opinions on things like weight because it was > pounded > > > into me since I was a tiny girl that the most important thing was to > be thin... > > > > > > Now, being slightly overweight causes great depression for me... But, > > > realitically, I have had four boys... Of course I am going to have a > stomach > > > with extra skin that wont go away... My mom always laughs at my > breasts... (I > > > breast fed all my sons for 1 year each) and my breasts are a little > saggy now... > > > She makes fun and says that if I dont get implants I will need to > start buying > > > panty hose to use for bras... > > > > > > How does one build a self-esteem at the age of 31 without her NADA's > voice > > > constantly in her head when its been there since she was born?... > Personally, I > > > do not agree with all the plastic surgery my NADA goes through... I > want to > > > learn to be happy with what God gave me... I want to be happy with the > saggy > > > breasts that allowed me to breast feed my sons... > > > > > > Do any of you find yourselves trying to figure out who you would like > to be or > > > who you are (and being happy) when that is against everything youve > ever been > > > taught about yourself? I dont know about you but as a young child I > thought my > > > NADA knew it all... Dont all small children look to their parents for > the > > > answers? So how do you learn as an adult to throw all that rubbish in > the can > > > and re-create an identity for yourself? Has anyone found something > that worked > > > well in getting Nada's thoughts of you out of your head and creating a > > > self-identity based on what makes you happy? And what does make me > happy? I have > > > always lived for HER happiness... NOT MINE! What does make me > happy???? Good > > > question...!!! I would love any thoughts! > > > jen > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 That level of cruelty smells more like narcissistic pd to me, or possibly even antisocial pd. Its sadistic, that need to (attempt to) shame and degrade another human being to make yourself feel superior. That's the very definition of sadism (without the sexual component): gaining pleasure from hurting someone else; feeding on their pain. Its hard to deal with such mean remarks in the moment when its being directed at you, and when its been directed at you your whole life: when you've been trained/conditioned/brainwashed by this individual, your own mother, to accept being shamed by her as " normal " and " deserved. " If you have a therapist, maybe the therapist could give you some tools to use when your nada does this to you, tools that can help you stay in the moment, not withdraw/dissociate and yet not react emotionally (not accept the shame) either. And, your therapist can give you some tools to use in response. Role-playing would probably be the way your therapist could help you with this. You and your therapist could take turns being you, and being your nada when she says such mean, cruel things to you. You be mean nada and make a typically cruel remark to the therapist, and the therapist will role-model a good response to make. Then you try it: the therapist will be your nada and say something nasty, and you will make a response that nullifies her remark. Below is just my own fantasy response, but I'm sure your therapist will be able to give you tools/responses that are more appropriate, healthy, and less loaded with hostility than mine is: ( " Wow, you must be feeling really old and ugly and unlovable to make such a remark to me. How long have you been feeling ashamed of your appearance, mother? You're so obviously jealous of my womanly curves and the fact that my husband finds me so attractive. Do you want to talk about it? Are you jealous that I've had sons and you didn't, or that I've been happily married for so long and you aren't, or is it something else? " ) The underlying idea is to turn her insulting, denigrating remarks back onto her. They're coming from a pit of self-loathing and jealousy, and you simply make her aware that you understand that. And in doing so you make her understand that the hurt and shame she intended you to feel just bounced off you and splatted back onto her. -Annie > > > > > > My therapist is really wanting me to discover who I am without my mom's voice in > > my head telling me what a fat, selfish, uncaring, foolish, ugly slob I am. I > > have such a low self esteem because of what I have always been told about > > myself. For instance, what weight would I be happy at? (without my mom's voice > > telling me I need to be her anorexic size 0) It is difficult for me to tell?? I > > have never formed my own opinions on things like weight because it was pounded > > into me since I was a tiny girl that the most important thing was to be thin... > > > > Now, being slightly overweight causes great depression for me... But, > > realitically, I have had four boys... Of course I am going to have a stomach > > with extra skin that wont go away... My mom always laughs at my breasts... (I > > breast fed all my sons for 1 year each) and my breasts are a little saggy now... > > She makes fun and says that if I dont get implants I will need to start buying > > panty hose to use for bras... > > > > How does one build a self-esteem at the age of 31 without her NADA's voice > > constantly in her head when its been there since she was born?... Personally, I > > do not agree with all the plastic surgery my NADA goes through... I want to > > learn to be happy with what God gave me... I want to be happy with the saggy > > breasts that allowed me to breast feed my sons... > > > > Do any of you find yourselves trying to figure out who you would like to be or > > who you are (and being happy) when that is against everything youve ever been > > taught about yourself? I dont know about you but as a young child I thought my > > NADA knew it all... Dont all small children look to their parents for the > > answers? So how do you learn as an adult to throw all that rubbish in the can > > and re-create an identity for yourself? Has anyone found something that worked > > well in getting Nada's thoughts of you out of your head and creating a > > self-identity based on what makes you happy? And what does make me happy? I have > > always lived for HER happiness... NOT MINE! What does make me happy???? Good > > question...!!! I would love any thoughts! > > jen > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 Those sound like really good books for those who were raised to be people-pleasers or to be codependent caretakers responsible for seeing to their parent's needs. Thanks for sharing the titles. Kudos to you for becoming assertive and a good caretaker to yourself! Its sad that our personality-disordered parents seem to wind up at some point forcing us to choose between saving them or saving ourselves. The pd parent appears to see nothing wrong with throwing their child to the hyenas if it will distract the hyenas long enough for the pd parent to escape. Is the bpd/npd/aspd parent thinking something like, " Oops. Well, no problem, we can always make another baby. " ? Makes me wonder. -Annie > > > > > > > > > > > > My therapist is really wanting me to discover who I am without my > > mom's voice in > > > > my head telling me what a fat, selfish, uncaring, foolish, ugly slob > I > > am. I > > > > have such a low self esteem because of what I have always been told > > about > > > > myself. For instance, what weight would I be happy at? (without my > > mom's voice > > > > telling me I need to be her anorexic size 0) It is difficult for me > to > > tell?? I > > > > have never formed my own opinions on things like weight because it > was > > pounded > > > > into me since I was a tiny girl that the most important thing was to > > be thin... > > > > > > > > Now, being slightly overweight causes great depression for me... > But, > > > > realitically, I have had four boys... Of course I am going to have a > > stomach > > > > with extra skin that wont go away... My mom always laughs at my > > breasts... (I > > > > breast fed all my sons for 1 year each) and my breasts are a little > > saggy now... > > > > She makes fun and says that if I dont get implants I will need to > > start buying > > > > panty hose to use for bras... > > > > > > > > How does one build a self-esteem at the age of 31 without her NADA's > > voice > > > > constantly in her head when its been there since she was born?... > > Personally, I > > > > do not agree with all the plastic surgery my NADA goes through... I > > want to > > > > learn to be happy with what God gave me... I want to be happy with > the > > saggy > > > > breasts that allowed me to breast feed my sons... > > > > > > > > Do any of you find yourselves trying to figure out who you would > like > > to be or > > > > who you are (and being happy) when that is against everything youve > > ever been > > > > taught about yourself? I dont know about you but as a young child I > > thought my > > > > NADA knew it all... Dont all small children look to their parents > for > > the > > > > answers? So how do you learn as an adult to throw all that rubbish > in > > the can > > > > and re-create an identity for yourself? Has anyone found something > > that worked > > > > well in getting Nada's thoughts of you out of your head and creating > a > > > > self-identity based on what makes you happy? And what does make me > > happy? I have > > > > always lived for HER happiness... NOT MINE! What does make me > > happy???? Good > > > > question...!!! I would love any thoughts! > > > > jen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 > It is a tough concept for me because my decisions have always been made to what she would decide for me... Even this evening I went to a jewlery party and felt like I should ask my mom what looked good on me and I didnt buy anything she didnt like (even if I did) ... crazy!! I totally relate to this. When I was first in college and got my first checkbook, I remember feeling as if I were going to have to show it to her and defend any purchase I made. I kept that feeling for the LONGEST time. What would she think of this? What would she think of that? I carried these big old leather granny purses for years and years and years, feeling like these were the " right " kind of purses to carry because that was what she liked. I finally bought my first couple of stylish cloth bags a couple of years ago and I remember feeling this little thrill of freedom. I didn't have to let her tell me what purse to like! She was always in the middle of every childhood friendship and acquaintanceship I had. When I came home, I had to tell her everything we said and everything we did, and then I had to go back and think, act, and say what she thought I should think, act, and say. Looking back, I now see that there wasn't even a thought in my head for some 25 years that wasn't hers first. Sad to say I chose the career SHE wanted me to have. It wasn't based on what I was good at, what I liked, or what would have made me happy. Now I feel trapped in it by the student loans and by the hospital bills I owe because the student loans were so expensive I couldn't afford health insurance. Basically my whole life has been dictated by her, and now I'm trapped in it because I don't have the financial resources to be able to make any kind of change. --. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2010 Report Share Posted September 25, 2010 Yes, yes, yes! I can totally relate to this. I am constantly looking to others for their interpretation of events, to see what will make them most happy and a lot of the time I don't at all tune in to how I feel about anything. I am coming to realise that this isn't just a reflection of me being easy going, but rather a result of constantly looking for triggers and trying to placate any potential Nada explosions. Oh and when I do tune into how I feel about something and really stick to my guns with it, I very easily feel selfish and stubborn and can easily talked out of it. While I feel very passionate about many things- social justice, humanitarian issues etc and close friends often call me stubborn, I am always easily persuaded into other ways of viewing things. I'm such a good democrat! Sometimes this worries me as often I have no sense about my own feelings, but I can always tell you how anyone in my company was feeling about anything at any given time. I think that plays a part in my amnesia problem too, where I can have trouble recalling events as I am so caught up in sussing out how other people are feeling all of the time. This probably sounds funny and is a bit embarrassing really, but what the heck! Lately I have been really aware of my tendency to have no sense of my own feelings and and I have been purposely trying to tune in to this. So the other day, I was drinking some tea that I always buy and I realised that it isn't that nice, so I made a point of telling my partner that I don't really enjoy the tea that we've been drinking and that we'd have to start buying a different brand. He agreed with me and I wondered why I kept buying the silly tea??!! It's because I didn't even bother to tune into the fact that I don't like it and I felt kind of empowered acknowledging it! I know this is a very strange example, but even on this day to day level I don't tune into my own feelings. I have always looked to my mother to decide for me. I can remember telling her things over the years to determine my feelings based on her feedback. Her Jeckyl and Hyde tendency made this interesting! I think that's how I kept getting sucked back into the cycle. Lovely, caring, nice mum would lure me in and I would feel like I had somehow misinterpreted her recent bad behaviour because it was so different to the current behaviour, I would tell her everything confession booth style waiting for her response to determine my own feelings about people/events etc until she would eventually twist everything that I had told her into some kind of skewed version of reality (where I was usually implicated as the selfish, nasty daughter who has never been there for her) that would fuel one of her rages. I guess it's easy to see why we as KOs discount our own feelings, because we instinctively feel that energy is better spent trying to predict the next rage. We lose faith in our own judgement because our feelings and interpretations of events are so discordant with their skewed versions of reality. This is especially so with the Jeckyll and Hyde style BPD because we so easily get sucked in over and over again, forgetting why we need to keep our guard up, and most probably wanting to forget because we crave the love, affection and approval that the " good " Nada or Fada give us. Well here's to a better understanding of our own feelings, wants and needs. Here's to not seeking love and approval from an external source, but rather receiving that appraisal from within. Oh, and here's to a decent cup of tea! I'm on a mission to find the one that I like the best! With warmth, Lynda > > > My therapist is really wanting me to discover who I am without my mom's voice in > my head telling me what a fat, selfish, uncaring, foolish, ugly slob I am. I > have such a low self esteem because of what I have always been told about > myself. For instance, what weight would I be happy at? (without my mom's voice > telling me I need to be her anorexic size 0) It is difficult for me to tell?? I > have never formed my own opinions on things like weight because it was pounded > into me since I was a tiny girl that the most important thing was to be thin... > > Now, being slightly overweight causes great depression for me... But, > realitically, I have had four boys... Of course I am going to have a stomach > with extra skin that wont go away... My mom always laughs at my breasts... (I > breast fed all my sons for 1 year each) and my breasts are a little saggy now... > She makes fun and says that if I dont get implants I will need to start buying > panty hose to use for bras... > > How does one build a self-esteem at the age of 31 without her NADA's voice > constantly in her head when its been there since she was born?... Personally, I > do not agree with all the plastic surgery my NADA goes through... I want to > learn to be happy with what God gave me... I want to be happy with the saggy > breasts that allowed me to breast feed my sons... > > Do any of you find yourselves trying to figure out who you would like to be or > who you are (and being happy) when that is against everything youve ever been > taught about yourself? I dont know about you but as a young child I thought my > NADA knew it all... Dont all small children look to their parents for the > answers? So how do you learn as an adult to throw all that rubbish in the can > and re-create an identity for yourself? Has anyone found something that worked > well in getting Nada's thoughts of you out of your head and creating a > self-identity based on what makes you happy? And what does make me happy? I have > always lived for HER happiness... NOT MINE! What does make me happy???? Good > question...!!! I would love any thoughts! > jen > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 your post meant a lot to me... You completely understand!! thanks > > > > It is a tough concept for me because my decisions have always been made to what she would decide for me... Even this evening I went to a jewlery party and felt like I should ask my mom what looked good on me and I didnt buy anything she didnt like (even if I did) ... crazy!! > > > I totally relate to this. When I was first in college and got my first checkbook, I remember feeling as if I were going to have to show it to her and defend any purchase I made. I kept that feeling for the LONGEST time. What would she think of this? What would she think of that? I carried these big old leather granny purses for years and years and years, feeling like these were the " right " kind of purses to carry because that was what she liked. I finally bought my first couple of stylish cloth bags a couple of years ago and I remember feeling this little thrill of freedom. I didn't have to let her tell me what purse to like! > > She was always in the middle of every childhood friendship and acquaintanceship I had. When I came home, I had to tell her everything we said and everything we did, and then I had to go back and think, act, and say what she thought I should think, act, and say. Looking back, I now see that there wasn't even a thought in my head for some 25 years that wasn't hers first. > > Sad to say I chose the career SHE wanted me to have. It wasn't based on what I was good at, what I liked, or what would have made me happy. Now I feel trapped in it by the student loans and by the hospital bills I owe because the student loans were so expensive I couldn't afford health insurance. Basically my whole life has been dictated by her, and now I'm trapped in it because I don't have the financial resources to be able to make any kind of change. > > --. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 thanks! I am going to get on amazon and order them!! > > > > > > > > > My therapist is really wanting me to discover who I am without my > mom's voice in > > > my head telling me what a fat, selfish, uncaring, foolish, ugly slob I > am. I > > > have such a low self esteem because of what I have always been told > about > > > myself. For instance, what weight would I be happy at? (without my > mom's voice > > > telling me I need to be her anorexic size 0) It is difficult for me to > tell?? I > > > have never formed my own opinions on things like weight because it was > pounded > > > into me since I was a tiny girl that the most important thing was to > be thin... > > > > > > Now, being slightly overweight causes great depression for me... But, > > > realitically, I have had four boys... Of course I am going to have a > stomach > > > with extra skin that wont go away... My mom always laughs at my > breasts... (I > > > breast fed all my sons for 1 year each) and my breasts are a little > saggy now... > > > She makes fun and says that if I dont get implants I will need to > start buying > > > panty hose to use for bras... > > > > > > How does one build a self-esteem at the age of 31 without her NADA's > voice > > > constantly in her head when its been there since she was born?... > Personally, I > > > do not agree with all the plastic surgery my NADA goes through... I > want to > > > learn to be happy with what God gave me... I want to be happy with the > saggy > > > breasts that allowed me to breast feed my sons... > > > > > > Do any of you find yourselves trying to figure out who you would like > to be or > > > who you are (and being happy) when that is against everything youve > ever been > > > taught about yourself? I dont know about you but as a young child I > thought my > > > NADA knew it all... Dont all small children look to their parents for > the > > > answers? So how do you learn as an adult to throw all that rubbish in > the can > > > and re-create an identity for yourself? Has anyone found something > that worked > > > well in getting Nada's thoughts of you out of your head and creating a > > > self-identity based on what makes you happy? And what does make me > happy? I have > > > always lived for HER happiness... NOT MINE! What does make me > happy???? Good > > > question...!!! I would love any thoughts! > > > jen > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 Karla, You are very sweet and very supportive!! thank you! > > > > > > My therapist is really wanting me to discover who I am without my mom's voice in > > my head telling me what a fat, selfish, uncaring, foolish, ugly slob I am. I > > have such a low self esteem because of what I have always been told about > > myself. For instance, what weight would I be happy at? (without my mom's voice > > telling me I need to be her anorexic size 0) It is difficult for me to tell?? I > > have never formed my own opinions on things like weight because it was pounded > > into me since I was a tiny girl that the most important thing was to be thin... > > > > Now, being slightly overweight causes great depression for me... But, > > realitically, I have had four boys... Of course I am going to have a stomach > > with extra skin that wont go away... My mom always laughs at my breasts... (I > > breast fed all my sons for 1 year each) and my breasts are a little saggy now... > > She makes fun and says that if I dont get implants I will need to start buying > > panty hose to use for bras... > > > > How does one build a self-esteem at the age of 31 without her NADA's voice > > constantly in her head when its been there since she was born?... Personally, I > > do not agree with all the plastic surgery my NADA goes through... I want to > > learn to be happy with what God gave me... I want to be happy with the saggy > > breasts that allowed me to breast feed my sons... > > > > Do any of you find yourselves trying to figure out who you would like to be or > > who you are (and being happy) when that is against everything youve ever been > > taught about yourself? I dont know about you but as a young child I thought my > > NADA knew it all... Dont all small children look to their parents for the > > answers? So how do you learn as an adult to throw all that rubbish in the can > > and re-create an identity for yourself? Has anyone found something that worked > > well in getting Nada's thoughts of you out of your head and creating a > > self-identity based on what makes you happy? And what does make me happy? I have > > always lived for HER happiness... NOT MINE! What does make me happy???? Good > > question...!!! I would love any thoughts! > > jen > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 Bird on a wire, This is so great to me that you said that about the tea!!! My therapist actually asked me why I always drink diet coke... I said, " I dont know, I just always have. " Guess what?!! that is all my mom drinks and yes, my therapist was accurate in guessing that... She asked me to really decide if I even liked it all that much or if I just drank it cause that is what she chose for me/us... Thanks... isnt it funny how we can relate to such simple, seemingly insignificant things??? Actually its pretty affirming!! jen > > > > > > My therapist is really wanting me to discover who I am without my mom's voice in > > my head telling me what a fat, selfish, uncaring, foolish, ugly slob I am. I > > have such a low self esteem because of what I have always been told about > > myself. For instance, what weight would I be happy at? (without my mom's voice > > telling me I need to be her anorexic size 0) It is difficult for me to tell?? I > > have never formed my own opinions on things like weight because it was pounded > > into me since I was a tiny girl that the most important thing was to be thin... > > > > Now, being slightly overweight causes great depression for me... But, > > realitically, I have had four boys... Of course I am going to have a stomach > > with extra skin that wont go away... My mom always laughs at my breasts... (I > > breast fed all my sons for 1 year each) and my breasts are a little saggy now... > > She makes fun and says that if I dont get implants I will need to start buying > > panty hose to use for bras... > > > > How does one build a self-esteem at the age of 31 without her NADA's voice > > constantly in her head when its been there since she was born?... Personally, I > > do not agree with all the plastic surgery my NADA goes through... I want to > > learn to be happy with what God gave me... I want to be happy with the saggy > > breasts that allowed me to breast feed my sons... > > > > Do any of you find yourselves trying to figure out who you would like to be or > > who you are (and being happy) when that is against everything youve ever been > > taught about yourself? I dont know about you but as a young child I thought my > > NADA knew it all... Dont all small children look to their parents for the > > answers? So how do you learn as an adult to throw all that rubbish in the can > > and re-create an identity for yourself? Has anyone found something that worked > > well in getting Nada's thoughts of you out of your head and creating a > > self-identity based on what makes you happy? And what does make me happy? I have > > always lived for HER happiness... NOT MINE! What does make me happy???? Good > > question...!!! I would love any thoughts! > > jen > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 yes i can totally relate to this as well. one book called 'wishcraft' has a lot of easy and interesting exercises in it that have helped me for a long time.. like asking myself, 'what would i choose to do if i knew this was the last day of my life?' or i knew i had only 6 months to live.. or what is my favorite color and why.. many simple things to think about, some that really struck me and helped me in my journey towards knowing more about myself.may we all  heal, ann Subject: Re: who am I? To: WTOAdultChildren1 Date: Saturday, September 25, 2010, 7:11 PM  Yes, yes, yes! I can totally relate to this. I am constantly looking to others for their interpretation of events, to see what will make them most happy and a lot of the time I don't at all tune in to how I feel about anything. I am coming to realise that this isn't just a reflection of me being easy going, but rather a result of constantly looking for triggers and trying to placate any potential Nada explosions. Oh and when I do tune into how I feel about something and really stick to my guns with it, I very easily feel selfish and stubborn and can easily talked out of it. While I feel very passionate about many things- social justice, humanitarian issues etc and close friends often call me stubborn, I am always easily persuaded into other ways of viewing things. I'm such a good democrat! Sometimes this worries me as often I have no sense about my own feelings, but I can always tell you how anyone in my company was feeling about anything at any given time. I think that plays a part in my amnesia problem too, where I can have trouble recalling events as I am so caught up in sussing out how other people are feeling all of the time. This probably sounds funny and is a bit embarrassing really, but what the heck! Lately I have been really aware of my tendency to have no sense of my own feelings and and I have been purposely trying to tune in to this. So the other day, I was drinking some tea that I always buy and I realised that it isn't that nice, so I made a point of telling my partner that I don't really enjoy the tea that we've been drinking and that we'd have to start buying a different brand. He agreed with me and I wondered why I kept buying the silly tea??!! It's because I didn't even bother to tune into the fact that I don't like it and I felt kind of empowered acknowledging it! I know this is a very strange example, but even on this day to day level I don't tune into my own feelings. I have always looked to my mother to decide for me. I can remember telling her things over the years to determine my feelings based on her feedback. Her Jeckyl and Hyde tendency made this interesting! I think that's how I kept getting sucked back into the cycle. Lovely, caring, nice mum would lure me in and I would feel like I had somehow misinterpreted her recent bad behaviour because it was so different to the current behaviour, I would tell her everything confession booth style waiting for her response to determine my own feelings about people/events etc until she would eventually twist everything that I had told her into some kind of skewed version of reality (where I was usually implicated as the selfish, nasty daughter who has never been there for her) that would fuel one of her rages. I guess it's easy to see why we as KOs discount our own feelings, because we instinctively feel that energy is better spent trying to predict the next rage. We lose faith in our own judgement because our feelings and interpretations of events are so discordant with their skewed versions of reality. This is especially so with the Jeckyll and Hyde style BPD because we so easily get sucked in over and over again, forgetting why we need to keep our guard up, and most probably wanting to forget because we crave the love, affection and approval that the " good " Nada or Fada give us. Well here's to a better understanding of our own feelings, wants and needs. Here's to not seeking love and approval from an external source, but rather receiving that appraisal from within. Oh, and here's to a decent cup of tea! I'm on a mission to find the one that I like the best! With warmth, Lynda > > > My therapist is really wanting me to discover who I am without my mom's voice in > my head telling me what a fat, selfish, uncaring, foolish, ugly slob I am. I > have such a low self esteem because of what I have always been told about > myself. For instance, what weight would I be happy at? (without my mom's voice > telling me I need to be her anorexic size 0) It is difficult for me to tell?? I > have never formed my own opinions on things like weight because it was pounded > into me since I was a tiny girl that the most important thing was to be thin... > > Now, being slightly overweight causes great depression for me... But, > realitically, I have had four boys... Of course I am going to have a stomach > with extra skin that wont go away... My mom always laughs at my breasts... (I > breast fed all my sons for 1 year each) and my breasts are a little saggy now... > She makes fun and says that if I dont get implants I will need to start buying > panty hose to use for bras... > > How does one build a self-esteem at the age of 31 without her NADA's voice > constantly in her head when its been there since she was born?... Personally, I > do not agree with all the plastic surgery my NADA goes through... I want to > learn to be happy with what God gave me... I want to be happy with the saggy > breasts that allowed me to breast feed my sons... > > Do any of you find yourselves trying to figure out who you would like to be or > who you are (and being happy) when that is against everything youve ever been > taught about yourself? I dont know about you but as a young child I thought my > NADA knew it all... Dont all small children look to their parents for the > answers? So how do you learn as an adult to throw all that rubbish in the can > and re-create an identity for yourself? Has anyone found something that worked > well in getting Nada's thoughts of you out of your head and creating a > self-identity based on what makes you happy? And what does make me happy? I have > always lived for HER happiness... NOT MINE! What does make me happy???? Good > question...!!! I would love any thoughts! > jen > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 yes i have my nada's awful critical voice in my head too.. and have lately discovered that the hatred and bitterness i have towards her has been held close to my heart for a long, long time.. i want to let these corrosive feelings go a little at a time, when they are ready (anger at my nada has been very empowering in many ways, but also keeps me back i feel now from affirming myself and allowing myself the priceless gift of serenity).. not a process to be rushed into too soon,but i have felt i am getting ready.. the doing of that entails a strong feeling of grief, as well as it is yet another loss i have chosen to endure. the loss of my own bitter feelings which have been a part of my very soul for such a long, long time.. and so i grieve. and begin to heal.may we all heal,ann Subject: Re: who am I? To: WTOAdultChildren1 Date: Saturday, September 25, 2010, 12:05 PM  She laughs at your breasts? Pokes fun at your body? What kind of intrusive, demeaning, ridiculous, bullying, humiliating, hateful, shockingly filthy thing is that? And she does this to her own daughter???? Oh. Yeah. Its BPD. There are just SOOOOO many things wrong with your nada's behavior, I can't list them all! That stuff is abuse. Pure and simple. It isn't designed to inform you or help you or give you any sane piece of information--it is designed to tear you down and humiliate you. It is gross, blatant abuse. It is used to harm you. Period. Her job is to be your mother, and to affirm you no matter what you weigh. ly, a good mom wouldn't care a bit about what you weigh, unless you were unhealthy. And, even if it was a problem, a good mom would SHUT UP about it. If you're grown up enough to raise 4 beautiful babies, you are certainly grown up enough to have your weight be your concern--not hers. If she were healthy and a true mother, she wouldn't do a single one of these things. She would celebrate your success (four breast-fed babies is an accomplishment, indeed) and be grateful you live well in this life. Those demeaning insults have everything to do with her crazy and nothing to do with your goodness. One of the aspects of claiming my own identity (which I'm also still trying to sort out myself) is getting a more realistic picture of who nada is. The more I can realize she's insane--and cruel as well--the more I can free myself up to find out who I am. And, strangely enough, it was hard to let go of the hatred voices in my head. They accomplished three things: 1) they held a " mommy " close who was always on the brink of abandoning me, and 2) protected me from realizing how horrible my mother really was, and 3) saving myself from a fight with her about who I was. No matter how horrid our mothers are, no one wants to readily admit that their own mother is a monster. I guess I'm saying is clinging to those nasty voices served a purpose, even if that purpose is sick coping. Also, it was a protection mechanism for me. Nada could sense success and self-esteem a mile away. Even if it was a quiet thought in my head that affirmed me, she seemed to sniff it out and attack me the next instant. Those " voices " in my head became a defense mechanism--if I could " pre-attack " myself before nada got her chance, it sometimes saved me from her. Or, at least, nada's attacks weren't a surprise. I could " pre-attack " myself and take the shock out of it when nada came at me out of nowhere. Sorry for ranting here. I can say this: You're on the right track. Asking these questions are hard, but you're doing the brave thing and starting to question and fight back. That's the first step, and sometimes that's the hardest. Be gentle on yourself, and know we are here for you in the process. This thing isn't bigger than you--of that I am sure. Blessings, Karla > > > My therapist is really wanting me to discover who I am without my mom's voice in > my head telling me what a fat, selfish, uncaring, foolish, ugly slob I am. I > have such a low self esteem because of what I have always been told about > myself. For instance, what weight would I be happy at? (without my mom's voice > telling me I need to be her anorexic size 0) It is difficult for me to tell?? I > have never formed my own opinions on things like weight because it was pounded > into me since I was a tiny girl that the most important thing was to be thin... > > Now, being slightly overweight causes great depression for me... But, > realitically, I have had four boys... Of course I am going to have a stomach > with extra skin that wont go away... My mom always laughs at my breasts... (I > breast fed all my sons for 1 year each) and my breasts are a little saggy now... > She makes fun and says that if I dont get implants I will need to start buying > panty hose to use for bras... > > How does one build a self-esteem at the age of 31 without her NADA's voice > constantly in her head when its been there since she was born?... Personally, I > do not agree with all the plastic surgery my NADA goes through... I want to > learn to be happy with what God gave me... I want to be happy with the saggy > breasts that allowed me to breast feed my sons... > > Do any of you find yourselves trying to figure out who you would like to be or > who you are (and being happy) when that is against everything youve ever been > taught about yourself? I dont know about you but as a young child I thought my > NADA knew it all... Dont all small children look to their parents for the > answers? So how do you learn as an adult to throw all that rubbish in the can > and re-create an identity for yourself? Has anyone found something that worked > well in getting Nada's thoughts of you out of your head and creating a > self-identity based on what makes you happy? And what does make me happy? I have > always lived for HER happiness... NOT MINE! What does make me happy???? Good > question...!!! I would love any thoughts! > jen > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 This has been an interesting thread for me to read and ponder. I had my birthday earlier this year, and it's tradition in our household that the birthday person gets to pick what and where we eat dinner. DH and DD kept asking me what I wanted, and I didn't know. It was weird, it was as if I had no really strong desire for a particular meal or restaurant. I would say: Well, we could go here or eat this or that, does that sound good? and they'd reply: It's your birthday. We'll eat whatever you want. This went on for days. So reading this thread has me thinking. I have always considered myself very easy going, and others concur. Laid back, not demanding in a certain way (very demanding in others, hey, I'm a Leo, what can I say, lol) and agreeable, willing to go along. But now I am wondering if this is actually learned behavior from Nada. Do I really not care about what we eat, where we go, and many other things? Am I truly just a laid back agreeable person? Or did I squelch my own desires so much from infancy that it's almost as if I don't have them? Am I subconsciously afraid to make a choice because it might be wrong? Or because subconsciously I am fearful that it will not please my companions? I do know that Nada would become enraged when people with her didn't do exactly what she did. For example, for years my poor father would eat the same meal in a restaurant as she chose. If DH or I chose something different she would go on and on ad nausea about how good her meal was. She did this with many other things, too many to even put in writing. One time DH and I were talking about buying a log home and she said: But do YOU want a log home? Of course what she meant was I would never have a log home and neither should you. I don't know. I'm rambling. And thinking. This forum is so valuable to me. Em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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