Re: how does she always know?

[Guest guest]

I do get it. Truly. And please know that I am not 'yelling' at you.

Like everybody else, I want us ALL to get out from under our life-sucking

relatives, no matter how pitiful they are. There just has to be another way.

So I'm thinking - not just for you, but for me too (my mom has no other next of

kin and it seems the entire world thinks I should " want " to care for her - um,

no...)...

I read a study once that said job stress relates directly to the lack of

authority and control we have over our work life. This caretaking role counts

as a job - and at this point, it doesn't sound like you feel you have a lot of

control over the amount of time and effort it requires. So I'm thinking - keep

the job, but exert more control over the things that are within your power.

I still think that taking a " CEO " attitude might help. Do that which requires

your presence, and delegate absolutely everything else. Doctors' appointments?

Sure (and I know - you have to deal with the docs' schedules, and they are NEVER

compatible with your own). Maybe try to schedule things only on Mondays, or

only during the last week in the month, or only before noon? See if you can

limit the number of days devoted to that? Clothes shopping - get their

measurements, find their sizes, then order things off the Walmart site (or

whatever store you want to use) - and when you find something that fits, get 3

or 4 in different colors. Will they like it? No. Will they be adequately

clothed? Yes - and you don't have to set foot in a store with them. Hair

appointments? That sounds like something the aide could manage. Or, see if

there's a hairdresser that routinely comes to the group home. It would be more

expensive, but maybe your time is worth enough to make it balance out. Take

over the bill-paying, and do it at home, on your computer, with no apologies.

Yes, she may be upset. No, it doesn't have to change your resolve. Pharmacy

runs - can be mailed directly to the home, or to your address, for most drugs.

For the stuff that's not mailable, see if the doc will give you two or three

prescriptions at once - date a couple of months apart - and ask the pharmacy to

keep them on file and refill them automatically. Tell the docs that caring for

these two elderly women is a huge burden and you need to have their cooperation

so that you can continue in the role. There's no telling what kind of

time-saving ideas they will be willing to share with you.

And about that husband of yours (and mine, too) - take a load out of the dryer,

fold your stuff, and hand him the basket with his own socks and underwear. IF

he doesn't care, fine. If he does, he will fold them. Designate a " man cave "

room that is not on view to the public and stash his stuff in there, to put away

or not, as he pleases. The rest of the house will be man-clutter free. Can you

maybe afford a mini-maid team every two or three months, instead of a weekly

cleaning service? Or do the " vacuum run-through " yourself and hire a team when

it's time to clean the windows or the oven. Maybe just prior to the holidays,

or when you're getting ready to entertain. I can't afford this either, right

now, but boy, once I get back to work, I am SO calling them every few months.

I can hear you when you say they were kind. But now they are in the role of

dependents - more like your children than like independent adults who get to

call their own shots. So you are being required to take the parenting role.

And as a parent, I can tell you with absolutely no guilt at ALL that I do what I

have to do to keep my kid clothed, fed, schooled, and taken to the doctor - and

I use every possible time-saving and money-saving tool I can get my hands on.

He doesn't always want to wear the jeans and 5-for-$10 tee shirts I get for him,

but he is clothed appropriately, fed nourishing food, and he gets his checkups

as needed. He can bitch about it, but I don't have to care what he says.

, you are not " just " a caretaker. You're a working writer, plus holding

down another job, plus trying to stave off tendonitis and keep your own health

up. You deserve to take care of yourself and limit the amount of time devoted

to relatives.

My 2 cents, as we say. -

> >

> > - Sit down, hon. Put your feet up. Here goes...

> >

> > " When is it time to turn them over to someone else? " How about right now?

Yesterday? Last month?

>

> About six months ago, when their behavior was REALLY horrible, I really was at

the point of just abandoning them to the assisted living and saying, " I just

can't deal anymore. Find someone who can and don't call me anymore. " But there

I was thinking, " What will these people think? What kind of person am I if I do

that? " I know the head nurse over there; she's a client at the practice I work

at. (That's how I found the place.) And I'd keep thinking this stuff, and not

be able to do it. So, now that they're separated, and behaving better than

they've ever behaved, now I really can't do it. I feel like I'm just being

selfish.

>

> Really, I've accomplished something the people in South Carolina were never

able to do: Get them separated, and keep them well behaved. Granted, I think

it's because they're too old and feeble to fight it the way they used to, and

partially because God just put in my path people who knew how to handle them and

get them to behave, but the fact is, but my aunt and Ellen are doing better

mentally than they have in a LONG, LONG time.

>

>

> >

> >But it doesn't mean you have to go, or feel guilty about not going.

>

> This is the thing. I do feel guilty about not going. I feel like I should be

there. I feel like they always loved me (they always treated me better than my

own mother ever did) and they will miss me and feel hurt. And there are some

things I really should be doing. At the doctor, I really should be there to

hear what the doctor has to say, not hired help. You can get volunteers to

handle financial matters, but is that really wise? (And, would my aunt have a

fit? Most undoubtedly, yes.)

> >

> > You have been sounding very upset, angry, desperate, and hopeless ever since

you started writing about them. This isn't getting any better for you, is it?

And I don't think it matters to either of them, as long as they're cared for by

somebody. It does not have to be you. Please, PLEASE delegate some of this

stuff before it destroys you.

>

>

> I'm trying to figure that out. What really is OK to delegate? What really

isn't? How much time should I really be spending with these people? Since once

you're over there, they're so slow, you're over there all day. A short visit

can be had, but is difficult!

>

>

> >

> > If you got hit by a bus TODAY, who would take over these chores? Why can't

those same people take over the chores NOW?

>

>

> It would have to be social services. They would have to be in the social

services system.

>

> >

> > You could remain the " CEO " if you like - being sure that the aides or

nursing home workers aren't abusing your relatives. You could visit every month

for ONE HOUR to assess their physical well-being, and know that the home has

your phone number for emergencies. You can even continue to write out the

checks - but make arrangements with the bank so you can do it from home, sign

the damned things, and send them out. She'll never notice if she's that senile.

>

>

> Sad to say, she isn't that senile yet. But can she understand her bills, or

any reports on her money? Only enough to see that it's less than the last time,

and freak out over how much things cost. And one hour? I feel really, really

good about that and really, really bad about that, at the same time. Bleah.

>

> >

> > You can retain your " fiduciary duty " to handle their money honestly and

competently, while declining to perform the hands-on care. If it's all you can

manage, then IT'S ALL YOU CAN MANAGE. Being a grownup with a life of your own

is not something you have to apologize for, whether you're a budding novelist or

an anonymous middle-aged woman who wants to take a nap once in a while. Do what

you can manage, let paid staff handle the rest, and give yourself a break. If

assisted living can't handle them, they'll have to move on into a nursing home.

>

>

> See, I know where all this is coming from. I can just hear voices of people

in the past...parents...grandparents...and what they would say. " She took on

the responsibility, and now she won't do a good job. Here she is foisting it

onto other people they don't even know, wasting their money to pay people to do

things she could do for free, to do what?? Sit at a cafe and write some stupid

novel or go to the beach! Selfish, selfish, selfish!! "

>

> I am just having a really hard time believing that it isn't. Of course, when

you look back at the life I've had, it makes perfect sense that, after handing

38 years of it to mentally ill people and ruining it in so doing, I don't want

to hand the next 5-20 to yet some MORE mentally ill people and let them ruin the

rest of it, but...I said yes. I took the job. Now I've got the job. It's my

responsibility. What kind of family member just says, " I'm never going to see

these people again, " and splits, especially when the people are only like ten

minutes away???

>

>

>

> >

> > Final thought - if you were a man, do you think for ONE MINUTE anybody would

expect you to give everything up and take care of them? No chance, sister.

You're getting dumped on because it's convenient for everybody else to have you

carry the load. It's time to either make the other relatives (or whoever it is

that's sending you guilt)either step up or shut up. And by the way, if you're

working all day and your husband has time to sit down and watch a movie at

night, he can bloody well write out some checks during the commercials or fold

laundry while he watches, so you both get a break at the end of the day.

> >

> >

>

>

>

> Thanks for all the thoughts. I wish I could feel this way and not feel guilty

about it. It would be different if I were already published--then it would be

my career, and you have to have your career, right? But it's not a career.

It's just a fairy tale, really, and nobody knows better than me how unlikely

this particular fairy tale is to ever come true. The fact is, taking care of

these people is probably the most good I will ever do anyone in my whole entire

life.

>

> But I hate it.

>

> And I agree about the husband thing. But, as I've said, you can't MAKE anyone

want to do anything. Even if you've got a loaded pistol. Exactly how is a

woman supposed to secure this kind of cooperation?? Short of divorce, she

can't. Do I want to divorce my husband? No. So, he gets things his way, and I

just have to lump it. You can't MAKE anyone change his behavior.

>

> I don't know. I feel a little bit better about it, but I still don't know how

to make all these needs fit on the head of a pin. And you said it about the man

thing. Would anybody, anybody at ALL, even think anything like this about a

MAN, saddled with the same responsibilities??? Nope. Nobody says anything

about a man who keeps a messy house, either.

>

> Thanks for listening.

>

> --.

>

[Guest guest]

Annie,

I am reading the harpys child website and wow - I am in tears - that is my

mother exactly. You learn something new every day. What tears me up is my Dad

and brother are so stuck - I was/am def. the scapegoat and got the brunt of the

abuse and they are seeing this now, but they won't confront her. So I am still

stuck being the villain and I'm still banging my head against a wall.

Thanks for posting that.

> > > > >

> > > > > Has anyone else noticed a pattern that whenever you make a jump in

> > a

> > > > positive direction for yourself or even a small one, somehow your

> > nada

> > > > seems to know and at that moment has a crisis of some kind? This

> > has

> > > > happened so many times in my life that it is just ridiculous. I

> > had an

> > > > extreme version of this when I made a very sudden jump in my

> > meditation

> > > > practice and my father (NPD) who I'd been NC with for two decades

> > > > tracked me down. This weirds me out to say the least.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thoughts?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,this situation sounds like it's very triggering for you--which is

understandable--I mean,I'm sure you know this but all the stuff you're

mentioning here is a parallel with what went on with your nada.That is something

" other people " / " outsiders " just don't appreciate: just how triggering this kind

of " family responsibility " is for the KO in the caretaker role.There are layers

and layers of memories and associations unique to the KO caretaker's own

experience that *add* to the burden on a feeling level.I just want to validate

for you that what's going on here isn't just a simple matter of

-tends-to-the-relations.Perhaps that is what other people see but those

people are not seeing the full reality here of what's really going on.Their

opinions,therefore,are based on appearances not on reality as such.*Your*

reality matters--*your* feelings matter.It seems to me that what is most

important here is to find some ways,even small ways,to make this whole situation

be less triggering for you.To break that triggering down a bit where and however

you can.

I think it's completely understandable that you would feel oppressed

by this situation--it is too damned symbolic of everything you've already been

through and naturally and rightfully want to get beyond.

has given you some great practical suggestions that could serve to

start to break down the enormity of the triggering into managable parts as you

tailor them bit by bit to the situation.I love what she said about working with

their doctors on scheduling appointments.I'm sure that their doctors would be

able to work out a regular appointments schedule with you that accomodates

yours--this is an entirely reasonable request.

You've already accomplished getting them much more settled than they

were.You have stabilized their housing situation,you've already done the

essential: these relatives are no longer in any danger;they're safe where they

are.That's alot already--you've set this essential foundation of safety for

them.Nobody could reasonably say at this point that you have not done right by

these relatives because you already *have*.

,you have every right on Earth to feed your soul without being

called " selfish " .Through your writing or going to the beach..or whatever you

need to do for you.It isn't your fault in any way that your relatives happen to

be mentally ill,is it? You certainly didn't create the circumstances that lead

to them needing assistance nor have you abandoned them--tailoring what you can

do from here on in according to your own needs to live your own life isn't

selfish.Taking on the " job " of helping out a needy relative should never entail

running yourself into the ground--you took on the job and have accomplished

something good by getting them into a secure situation.Please credit yourself

with that and please give yourself a break from those judgmental FOO voices

saying it's never enough.You've done well by them.

Take care,

> > >

> > > - Sit down, hon. Put your feet up. Here goes...

> > >

> > > " When is it time to turn them over to someone else? " How about right

now? Yesterday? Last month?

> >

> > About six months ago, when their behavior was REALLY horrible, I really was

at the point of just abandoning them to the assisted living and saying, " I just

can't deal anymore. Find someone who can and don't call me anymore. " But there

I was thinking, " What will these people think? What kind of person am I if I do

that? " I know the head nurse over there; she's a client at the practice I work

at. (That's how I found the place.) And I'd keep thinking this stuff, and not

be able to do it. So, now that they're separated, and behaving better than

they've ever behaved, now I really can't do it. I feel like I'm just being

selfish.

> >

> > Really, I've accomplished something the people in South Carolina were never

able to do: Get them separated, and keep them well behaved. Granted, I think

it's because they're too old and feeble to fight it the way they used to, and

partially because God just put in my path people who knew how to handle them and

get them to behave, but the fact is, but my aunt and Ellen are doing better

mentally than they have in a LONG, LONG time.

> >

> >

> > >

> > >But it doesn't mean you have to go, or feel guilty about not going.

> >

> > This is the thing. I do feel guilty about not going. I feel like I should

be there. I feel like they always loved me (they always treated me better than

my own mother ever did) and they will miss me and feel hurt. And there are some

things I really should be doing. At the doctor, I really should be there to

hear what the doctor has to say, not hired help. You can get volunteers to

handle financial matters, but is that really wise? (And, would my aunt have a

fit? Most undoubtedly, yes.)

> > >

> > > You have been sounding very upset, angry, desperate, and hopeless ever

since you started writing about them. This isn't getting any better for you, is

it? And I don't think it matters to either of them, as long as they're cared

for by somebody. It does not have to be you. Please, PLEASE delegate some of

this stuff before it destroys you.

> >

> >

> > I'm trying to figure that out. What really is OK to delegate? What really

isn't? How much time should I really be spending with these people? Since once

you're over there, they're so slow, you're over there all day. A short visit

can be had, but is difficult!

> >

> >

> > >

> > > If you got hit by a bus TODAY, who would take over these chores? Why

can't those same people take over the chores NOW?

> >

> >

> > It would have to be social services. They would have to be in the social

services system.

> >

> > >

> > > You could remain the " CEO " if you like - being sure that the aides or

nursing home workers aren't abusing your relatives. You could visit every month

for ONE HOUR to assess their physical well-being, and know that the home has

your phone number for emergencies. You can even continue to write out the

checks - but make arrangements with the bank so you can do it from home, sign

the damned things, and send them out. She'll never notice if she's that senile.

> >

> >

> > Sad to say, she isn't that senile yet. But can she understand her bills, or

any reports on her money? Only enough to see that it's less than the last time,

and freak out over how much things cost. And one hour? I feel really, really

good about that and really, really bad about that, at the same time. Bleah.

> >

> > >

> > > You can retain your " fiduciary duty " to handle their money honestly and

competently, while declining to perform the hands-on care. If it's all you can

manage, then IT'S ALL YOU CAN MANAGE. Being a grownup with a life of your own

is not something you have to apologize for, whether you're a budding novelist or

an anonymous middle-aged woman who wants to take a nap once in a while. Do what

you can manage, let paid staff handle the rest, and give yourself a break. If

assisted living can't handle them, they'll have to move on into a nursing home.

> >

> >

> > See, I know where all this is coming from. I can just hear voices of people

in the past...parents...grandparents...and what they would say. " She took on

the responsibility, and now she won't do a good job. Here she is foisting it

onto other people they don't even know, wasting their money to pay people to do

things she could do for free, to do what?? Sit at a cafe and write some stupid

novel or go to the beach! Selfish, selfish, selfish!! "

> >

> > I am just having a really hard time believing that it isn't. Of course,

when you look back at the life I've had, it makes perfect sense that, after

handing 38 years of it to mentally ill people and ruining it in so doing, I

don't want to hand the next 5-20 to yet some MORE mentally ill people and let

them ruin the rest of it, but...I said yes. I took the job. Now I've got the

job. It's my responsibility. What kind of family member just says, " I'm never

going to see these people again, " and splits, especially when the people are

only like ten minutes away???

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Final thought - if you were a man, do you think for ONE MINUTE anybody

would expect you to give everything up and take care of them? No chance,

sister. You're getting dumped on because it's convenient for everybody else to

have you carry the load. It's time to either make the other relatives (or

whoever it is that's sending you guilt)either step up or shut up. And by the

way, if you're working all day and your husband has time to sit down and watch

a movie at night, he can bloody well write out some checks during the

commercials or fold laundry while he watches, so you both get a break at the end

of the day.

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > Thanks for all the thoughts. I wish I could feel this way and not feel

guilty about it. It would be different if I were already published--then it

would be my career, and you have to have your career, right? But it's not a

career. It's just a fairy tale, really, and nobody knows better than me how

unlikely this particular fairy tale is to ever come true. The fact is, taking

care of these people is probably the most good I will ever do anyone in my whole

entire life.

> >

> > But I hate it.

> >

> > And I agree about the husband thing. But, as I've said, you can't MAKE

anyone want to do anything. Even if you've got a loaded pistol. Exactly how is

a woman supposed to secure this kind of cooperation?? Short of divorce, she

can't. Do I want to divorce my husband? No. So, he gets things his way, and I

just have to lump it. You can't MAKE anyone change his behavior.

> >

> > I don't know. I feel a little bit better about it, but I still don't know

how to make all these needs fit on the head of a pin. And you said it about the

man thing. Would anybody, anybody at ALL, even think anything like this about a

MAN, saddled with the same responsibilities??? Nope. Nobody says anything

about a man who keeps a messy house, either.

> >

> > Thanks for listening.

> >

> > --.

> >

>