Re: Sons of borderline mothers

[Guest guest]

If you know of a boy being raised by a BP mother, get them the fuck out

of there. Get them into therapy as quickly as you can.

The effects are devastating, and lifelong. I won t go into all the

effects here. Because, in point of fact, I m writing a book detailing

it. But it is shattering.

Doug

>

> For those of you who are sons of borderline parents: Do you think

there is anything specific to your experience that is different from the

experiences of daughters? Or does what you read from females here

describe your experience also? To cope, did you " act-out " (e.g.,

aggression, crime, sex, etc.) or " act-in " (e.g., depression, eating

disorders, alcohol, etc.)? If you read " Understanding the Borderline

Mother, " did you find it helpful?

>

> I have mentioned before that two young boys I know have a alcoholic

Waif mother. I have another friend who has asked me for advice in

dealing with her BPD MIL, and also the strain it puts on her marriage

when her husband gives in to her. I would like to know how to be as

effective as possible in my reaching out to these young men and their

families, and wondered whether gender would affect how they process the

abuse.

>

> If you are female but have a brother or husband with BPD parents, feel

free to add your two cents.

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

My little brother (now 54 yrs. old!) picked up explosive anger from nada.

Most of the time he's a calm, laid back person. But, you really never

know what's going to make him explode. It could be a radiculously simple

thing and all of the sudden he's in your face screaming and you are fearing for

your life.

That being said, he was considered the golden child of our family, and

was not subjected to the same abusive treatment (physical and emotional)

that I was. The point is, he still heard it going on, he saw it going on,

and therefore grew up thinking this was " normal " to display this type of

anger.

laurie

In a message dated 9/29/2010 4:12:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

ktelewis@... writes:

For those of you who are sons of borderline parents: Do you think there is

anything specific to your experience that is different from the experiences

of daughters? Or does what you read from females here describe your

experience also? To cope, did you " act-out " (e.g., aggression, crime, sex,

etc.)

or " act-in " (e.g., depression, eating disorders, alcohol, etc.)? If you

read " Understanding the Borderline Mother, " did you find it helpful?

I have mentioned before that two young boys I know have a alcoholic Waif

mother. I have another friend who has asked me for advice in dealing with

her BPD MIL, and also the strain it puts on her marriage when her husband

gives in to her. I would like to know how to be as effective as possible in my

reaching out to these young men and their families, and wondered whether

gender would affect how they process the abuse.

If you are female but have a brother or husband with BPD parents, feel

free to add your two cents.

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

Doug,

I wish I had the authority to " get them into therapy. " Unfortuately, it is also

not in my power to " get them the f*** out of there. "

I have a borderline mother and used to frequent this board. So I know what many

of the effects are. I remember you and hoped you might respond. I was just

hoping to find out how it might have been different for boys. I am guessing

from your response that you think your gender made the situation worse for you?

Is that right? I would be interested in hearing some elaboration if you are

willing.

Best of luck with your book.

> >

> > For those of you who are sons of borderline parents: Do you think

> there is anything specific to your experience that is different from the

> experiences of daughters? Or does what you read from females here

> describe your experience also? To cope, did you " act-out " (e.g.,

> aggression, crime, sex, etc.) or " act-in " (e.g., depression, eating

> disorders, alcohol, etc.)? If you read " Understanding the Borderline

> Mother, " did you find it helpful?

> >

> > I have mentioned before that two young boys I know have a alcoholic

> Waif mother. I have another friend who has asked me for advice in

> dealing with her BPD MIL, and also the strain it puts on her marriage

> when her husband gives in to her. I would like to know how to be as

> effective as possible in my reaching out to these young men and their

> families, and wondered whether gender would affect how they process the

> abuse.

> >

> > If you are female but have a brother or husband with BPD parents, feel

> free to add your two cents.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Sadly, most of us don t have it in our power to get them out. ( Pardon

the language, was feeling pretty strongly as I read this.)

Yes, I think their are some unique aspects to being a son of a Nada. I

won t presume to say it s worse, but we get hit in a number of areas.

BP moms are nearly universally sexually inappropriate. They can be

emasculating to a teen age boy. For example, mine had a series of

intense, instantly sexual relationships. I was expected to accept that,

bond with her guy of the week, accept them acting like out of control

teenagers. She even dragged me to a prison to watch her swap spit with

a guy she " fell for " while writing letters to him.

At the same time, she could shift to a highly pious mode and berate me

about whether I had sex with a particular girl, and even go so far as to

demand that I tell her I would NEVER think of having sex with some teen

aged girl. I was 16, for goodness sake. Having sex with a teen age girl

was about all I DID think about! But I get to link that to a screaming

, crying , histrionic episode from my Mother.

Emasculating, indeed.

At one point, she decided I was out of control and needed a solid male

figure in my life. So she found me one. And forced me to spend time

with him, ride around in his car in the evenings with him, try to bond.

I guess she missed the part where he was a homosexual, who wanted to

have sex with me. As I already indicated, I m not wired that way, I

wanted the curvy, squeezable giggly types.

Another gender specific aspect is that they often tend to parentify us,

and force us into a highly uncomfortable quasi spouse role, being the "

man " of the house, providing emotional support, letting them cry on our

shoulders. At 17, I was in school and working, she was neither. She

expected money from me.

When I left to go to boot camp in the Navy, she wheedled my recruiter

into taking her in the car with us when we went to the airport 2 hours

away where I would fly out. She made a scene, sobbing and clinging to

my neck. My consolation is, she sobbed for 2 solid hours on the way

back with him. How did that work out for you there, Ray?

The afternoon before my wedding, she took me aside, to implore, now,

whatever you do, just don t let her take my little boy away from me.

Hello? Woman, I m about to marry this girl. Tomorrow night I ll be on

my honeymoon. There s a pretty good chance we ll have sex. Your "

little boy " is a grown man, a Sailor, and about to take a bride.

A few years later, she wanted me to give her my blessing and permission

to marry her second husband, a man only 4 years older than me.

So, you see here, a few examples how the blur the roles, emasculate us,

and make us either helpless or ready to run like hell.

Hope that helps.

Doug

>

> Doug,

>

> I wish I had the authority to " get them into therapy. " Unfortuately,

it is also not in my power to " get them the f*** out of there. "

>

> I have a borderline mother and used to frequent this board. So I know

what many of the effects are. I remember you and hoped you might

respond. I was just hoping to find out how it might have been different

for boys. I am guessing from your response that you think your gender

made the situation worse for you? Is that right? I would be interested

in hearing some elaboration if you are willing.

>

> Best of luck with your book.

>

>

>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

That information is very helpful, especially the part about being expected to be

" the man of the house " and meet her emotional needs for a husband. I'm sorry

you had to go through all of that. Thank you for sharing.

> >

> > Doug,

> >

> > I wish I had the authority to " get them into therapy. " Unfortuately,

> it is also not in my power to " get them the f*** out of there. "

> >

> > I have a borderline mother and used to frequent this board. So I know

> what many of the effects are. I remember you and hoped you might

> respond. I was just hoping to find out how it might have been different

> for boys. I am guessing from your response that you think your gender

> made the situation worse for you? Is that right? I would be interested

> in hearing some elaboration if you are willing.

> >

> > Best of luck with your book.

> >

> >

> >

>

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Up through my early adult years I was very enmeshed with my nada and (I'm

ashamed to admit) mimicked her behaviors. But after my parents moved away and

I'd only see them once or twice a year, it became more and more obvious to me

that those behaviors were unpleasant, counterproductive, and most people didn't

want to be around someone (me) who acted superior, haughty, critical, insulting,

and got angry at the drop of a hat. I was puzzled at first, because my dad, my

sister and I had simply silently endured nada's " inappropriate and intense

rage " , her perfectionism, her narcissistic sense of entitlement, etc., as

" normal. " But I gradually grew to realize how self-defeating those behaviors

are, and that they genuinely hurt and repel other people, so I eventually shed

them. For the most part. Lord knows I am nowhere near free of all my damage,

but I'm like a different person than I was in my youth.

I think I was able to " de-flea " myself because (a) I don't have a mis-wired,

abnormal bpd brain, and therefor have the capacity to be objective about myself,

accept responsibility for my own behaviors, feel empathy and true remorse for

hurting others, have the desire to change my unwanted behaviors, and ( the

negative, hateful, entitled behaviors weren't really me, to begin with. I'd

simply adapted to my environment.

So maybe if your little brother can have less contact with your parents, he can

gradually change his negative behaviors too. There is always hope.

-Annie

>

> My little brother (now 54 yrs. old!) picked up explosive anger from nada.

> Most of the time he's a calm, laid back person. But, you really never

> know what's going to make him explode. It could be a radiculously simple

> thing and all of the sudden he's in your face screaming and you are fearing

for

> your life.

> That being said, he was considered the golden child of our family, and

> was not subjected to the same abusive treatment (physical and emotional)

> that I was. The point is, he still heard it going on, he saw it going on,

> and therefore grew up thinking this was " normal " to display this type of

> anger.

>

> laurie

>

> In a message dated 9/29/2010 4:12:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> ktelewis@... writes:

>

>

>

>

> For those of you who are sons of borderline parents: Do you think there is

> anything specific to your experience that is different from the experiences

> of daughters? Or does what you read from females here describe your

> experience also? To cope, did you " act-out " (e.g., aggression, crime, sex,

etc.)

> or " act-in " (e.g., depression, eating disorders, alcohol, etc.)? If you

> read " Understanding the Borderline Mother, " did you find it helpful?

>

> I have mentioned before that two young boys I know have a alcoholic Waif

> mother. I have another friend who has asked me for advice in dealing with

> her BPD MIL, and also the strain it puts on her marriage when her husband

> gives in to her. I would like to know how to be as effective as possible in

my

> reaching out to these young men and their families, and wondered whether

> gender would affect how they process the abuse.

>

> If you are female but have a brother or husband with BPD parents, feel

> free to add your two cents.

>

> Thanks,

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Annie, can I tell you it is freaking beautiful that you decided to change

and you worked on it and did it. So proud of you. So amazed!

I remember, too, deciding not to be like my nada. I was about 14 years old,

with my dad at an event. I was painfully painfully shy. I decided to screw

being shy, I wanted to be like my dad. So I followed him and did everything

he did, and by the end of the night, I had made my first friends. Nada

wasn't like that - she didn't go places like that. She didn't stick out her

hand. My therapist tells me that I am very fortunate that I had the love and

support from my dad that I had. And my grandmother as well. Between the two

of them, they probably saved my life. And she says its unfortunate for them

that they allowed my nada to come between us, but it was their choice. So

I'm like - " cool " I'll take it.

Hugs congrats!!!!

On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 1:38 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

>

>

> Up through my early adult years I was very enmeshed with my nada and (I'm

> ashamed to admit) mimicked her behaviors. But after my parents moved away

> and I'd only see them once or twice a year, it became more and more obvious

> to me that those behaviors were unpleasant, counterproductive, and most

> people didn't want to be around someone (me) who acted superior, haughty,

> critical, insulting, and got angry at the drop of a hat. I was puzzled at

> first, because my dad, my sister and I had simply silently endured nada's

> " inappropriate and intense rage " , her perfectionism, her narcissistic sense

> of entitlement, etc., as " normal. " But I gradually grew to realize how

> self-defeating those behaviors are, and that they genuinely hurt and repel

> other people, so I eventually shed them. For the most part. Lord knows I am

> nowhere near free of all my damage, but I'm like a different person than I

> was in my youth.

>

> I think I was able to " de-flea " myself because (a) I don't have a

> mis-wired, abnormal bpd brain, and therefor have the capacity to be

> objective about myself, accept responsibility for my own behaviors, feel

> empathy and true remorse for hurting others, have the desire to change my

> unwanted behaviors, and ( the negative, hateful, entitled behaviors

> weren't really me, to begin with. I'd simply adapted to my environment.

>

> So maybe if your little brother can have less contact with your parents, he

> can gradually change his negative behaviors too. There is always hope.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> >

> > My little brother (now 54 yrs. old!) picked up explosive anger from nada.

>

> > Most of the time he's a calm, laid back person. But, you really never

> > know what's going to make him explode. It could be a radiculously simple

> > thing and all of the sudden he's in your face screaming and you are

> fearing for

> > your life.

> > That being said, he was considered the golden child of our family, and

> > was not subjected to the same abusive treatment (physical and emotional)

> > that I was. The point is, he still heard it going on, he saw it going on,

>

> > and therefore grew up thinking this was " normal " to display this type of

> > anger.

> >

> > laurie

> >

> > In a message dated 9/29/2010 4:12:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> > ktelewis@... writes:

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > For those of you who are sons of borderline parents: Do you think there

> is

> > anything specific to your experience that is different from the

> experiences

> > of daughters? Or does what you read from females here describe your

> > experience also? To cope, did you " act-out " (e.g., aggression, crime,

> sex, etc.)

> > or " act-in " (e.g., depression, eating disorders, alcohol, etc.)? If you

> > read " Understanding the Borderline Mother, " did you find it helpful?

> >

> > I have mentioned before that two young boys I know have a alcoholic Waif

> > mother. I have another friend who has asked me for advice in dealing with

>

> > her BPD MIL, and also the strain it puts on her marriage when her husband

>

> > gives in to her. I would like to know how to be as effective as possible

> in my

> > reaching out to these young men and their families, and wondered whether

> > gender would affect how they process the abuse.

> >

> > If you are female but have a brother or husband with BPD parents, feel

> > free to add your two cents.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

My observations:

My mother's enmeshment and passive agression seemed to come out much worse with

my brother. It was like . . . his masculinity was something she had to own and

control. To a sick extreme, of course. She would time how long he would stay

in the bathroom, for cryin' out loud. He never had a minute of seperation, and

she held him under a microscope constantly. It was like she expected him to

somehow fill some ultimate " conquering " need she had and she expected him to

fulfill every emotional/mental male need she had.

My brother didn't fare well. He's bi-polar, alcoholic, rage-aholic, NP, man

with occasional psychosis. . . it's nothing pretty.

My aunt is also BPD, and had 7 kids. Interestingly, the girls are (for the most

part) productive citizens and lead healthy lives. In fact, out of the 3 girls,

two of them are wild success stories. Out of the 4 boys, one can hold a job

(but is NOT a healthy person) and one is a fairly stable/compassionate person.

The other two are rage-filled adult children who are constantly drunk and high.

They live off of mommy, of course.

So . . yes. I think the boys fair worse. It seems female BPD

control/enmeshment/enslavement stuff goes wild with boys.

Both my mother and my aunt (not related to one another except by marriage, BTW)

also had this super vigilant over-protective thing going on with their boys. It

was like the women were constantly up their . . . well, you know.

Hope this all works out. I'm with you--if only you could get them the F*** out

of there. You're constancy and sane voice will do wonders, though.

Blessings,

Karla

>

> For those of you who are sons of borderline parents: Do you think there is

anything specific to your experience that is different from the experiences of

daughters? Or does what you read from females here describe your experience

also? To cope, did you " act-out " (e.g., aggression, crime, sex, etc.) or

" act-in " (e.g., depression, eating disorders, alcohol, etc.)? If you read

" Understanding the Borderline Mother, " did you find it helpful?

>

> I have mentioned before that two young boys I know have a alcoholic Waif

mother. I have another friend who has asked me for advice in dealing with her

BPD MIL, and also the strain it puts on her marriage when her husband gives in

to her. I would like to know how to be as effective as possible in my reaching

out to these young men and their families, and wondered whether gender would

affect how they process the abuse.

>

> If you are female but have a brother or husband with BPD parents, feel free to

add your two cents.

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

YW.

Buy the book when it comes out! Ben Affeck will play me in the movie.

Or did they say Ernest Borgnine?

Doug

> > >

> > > Doug,

> > >

> > > I wish I had the authority to " get them into therapy. "

Unfortuately,

> > it is also not in my power to " get them the f*** out of there. "

> > >

> > > I have a borderline mother and used to frequent this board. So I

know

> > what many of the effects are. I remember you and hoped you might

> > respond. I was just hoping to find out how it might have been

different

> > for boys. I am guessing from your response that you think your

gender

> > made the situation worse for you? Is that right? I would be

interested

> > in hearing some elaboration if you are willing.

> > >

> > > Best of luck with your book.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I think my brothers experiences were a bit different to mine - for starters two

girls and he lived with their father, so they only had to deal with mum on

school holidays and the randlom times she would pop in on them for a visit. They

were always " evil " because she had not been allowed to have custody of them, and

I dont think my mother ever had any real attachment to them.

One thing thatI think might be a common thing with BP mothers, is HATING their

sons partners with a vengence that us girls dont seem to get as much. It wasnt

until my brother had a serious girlfrined that mum really got into his life.

With me, she would be nasty to MY face about a partner but be all chummy to the

guy; with my brother, she would be nasty to the girlfriend directly. It was a

lot less covert/slimy and more " I hate you and will spit on you if I see you

again " .

My brother now does the same as me, doesnt call, and hangs up if she calls and

gets nasty. So far she has been nice to his wife, but bitches about her

constantly behind her back. I dont think mum realises, but my SIL will happily

tear her a new you-know-what if it is required - she dont take rubbish from

noone, which is why I like her so much :]

>

> For those of you who are sons of borderline parents: Do you think there is

anything specific to your experience that is different from the experiences of

daughters? Or does what you read from females here describe your experience

also? To cope, did you " act-out " (e.g., aggression, crime, sex, etc.) or

" act-in " (e.g., depression, eating disorders, alcohol, etc.)? If you read

" Understanding the Borderline Mother, " did you find it helpful?

>

> I have mentioned before that two young boys I know have a alcoholic Waif

mother. I have another friend who has asked me for advice in dealing with her

BPD MIL, and also the strain it puts on her marriage when her husband gives in

to her. I would like to know how to be as effective as possible in my reaching

out to these young men and their families, and wondered whether gender would

affect how they process the abuse.

>

> If you are female but have a brother or husband with BPD parents, feel free to

add your two cents.

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, GS! I give a lot of credit to a boss I had for quite a long time,

someone whose talent I admired greatly, and I also admired the way he related to

people. He actually respected the people he'd hired, was self-confident without

being arrogant, had a good sense of humor, and he wanted our input, my input, on

projects instead of just telling me what to do. *He actually protected his

crew* from " abuse " by other department heads who felt entitled to pressure us to

do free personal work for them, or pile on more work without paying us overtime

for it, etc. He was sort of the anti-nada. I started patterning myself after

his style of relating to people.

Just being around more normal, mentally healthy people for 40 hours a week for

years really helped me; I guess I was lucky to fall into a bunch of really

decent, regular people at that company. It made a positive difference in my

life.

That's why I feel very optimistic for those of us who emerged from our formative

years covered in fleas; I personally believe that those who acquire a bad case

of fleas but do not have bpd itself have the capability, the possibility of

change. I am still fairly damaged; I think there are some things about me that

will never normalize but for the most part I'm a much more functional and

happier person than I was growing up/up age 33 (when my parents moved away.)

-Annie

> > >

> > > My little brother (now 54 yrs. old!) picked up explosive anger from nada.

> >

> > > Most of the time he's a calm, laid back person. But, you really never

> > > know what's going to make him explode. It could be a radiculously simple

> > > thing and all of the sudden he's in your face screaming and you are

> > fearing for

> > > your life.

> > > That being said, he was considered the golden child of our family, and

> > > was not subjected to the same abusive treatment (physical and emotional)

> > > that I was. The point is, he still heard it going on, he saw it going on,

> >

> > > and therefore grew up thinking this was " normal " to display this type of

> > > anger.

> > >

> > > laurie

> > >

> > > In a message dated 9/29/2010 4:12:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> > > ktelewis@ writes:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > For those of you who are sons of borderline parents: Do you think there

> > is

> > > anything specific to your experience that is different from the

> > experiences

> > > of daughters? Or does what you read from females here describe your

> > > experience also? To cope, did you " act-out " (e.g., aggression, crime,

> > sex, etc.)

> > > or " act-in " (e.g., depression, eating disorders, alcohol, etc.)? If you

> > > read " Understanding the Borderline Mother, " did you find it helpful?

> > >

> > > I have mentioned before that two young boys I know have a alcoholic Waif

> > > mother. I have another friend who has asked me for advice in dealing with

> >

> > > her BPD MIL, and also the strain it puts on her marriage when her husband

> >

> > > gives in to her. I would like to know how to be as effective as possible

> > in my

> > > reaching out to these young men and their families, and wondered whether

> > > gender would affect how they process the abuse.

> > >

> > > If you are female but have a brother or husband with BPD parents, feel

> > > free to add your two cents.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the responses!

kt

> >

> > For those of you who are sons of borderline parents: Do you think there is

anything specific to your experience that is different from the experiences of

daughters? Or does what you read from females here describe your experience

also? To cope, did you " act-out " (e.g., aggression, crime, sex, etc.) or

" act-in " (e.g., depression, eating disorders, alcohol, etc.)? If you read

" Understanding the Borderline Mother, " did you find it helpful?

> >

> > I have mentioned before that two young boys I know have a alcoholic Waif

mother. I have another friend who has asked me for advice in dealing with her

BPD MIL, and also the strain it puts on her marriage when her husband gives in

to her. I would like to know how to be as effective as possible in my reaching

out to these young men and their families, and wondered whether gender would

affect how they process the abuse.

> >

> > If you are female but have a brother or husband with BPD parents, feel free

to add your two cents.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Work and corporate culture is an interesting animal too. It can tear you

down and inspire you both. . . I'm going to post on that soon. i'm doing

some research.

Hugs everyone (ha ha I almost said Jugs. Freud. Ha ha)

xoxo

>

>

> Thanks for the responses!

> kt

>

>

>

> > >

> > > For those of you who are sons of borderline parents: Do you think there

> is anything specific to your experience that is different from the

> experiences of daughters? Or does what you read from females here describe

> your experience also? To cope, did you " act-out " (e.g., aggression, crime,

> sex, etc.) or " act-in " (e.g., depression, eating disorders, alcohol, etc.)?

> If you read " Understanding the Borderline Mother, " did you find it helpful?

> > >

> > > I have mentioned before that two young boys I know have a alcoholic

> Waif mother. I have another friend who has asked me for advice in dealing

> with her BPD MIL, and also the strain it puts on her marriage when her

> husband gives in to her. I would like to know how to be as effective as

> possible in my reaching out to these young men and their families, and

> wondered whether gender would affect how they process the abuse.

> > >

> > > If you are female but have a brother or husband with BPD parents, feel

> free to add your two cents.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I have a suggestion for you which are based on my experiences and observations

about my brothers. , if you can work it out, get these boys into activites

outside of their family home/influence. Sports, scouts, music, social groups,

friends, trips, whatever...... anything to get them away from their BPD family

as much as possible. A LOT OF TIME SPENT AWAY FROM THE FOO IS KEY. I suggest

this because...

Firsly, I am the adult daughter of a BPD waif/witch type mother and I have two

older brothers. My fada and nada divorced when we were in elementary school,

fada is an alcoholic/drug addict NPD and was mostly absent from our lives after

about Jr. high school.

My nada split the two boys black and white. Oldest was golden, middle boy was

split rotten and I was basically ignored and/or scapegoated by all three. Nada

was and still is, trying to make up for the idiot/absentee father, for some

reason she thinks the boys suffered more than me because of this. According to

her, I guess I don't have feelings about it, and couldn't possibly be damaged by

it. I think it's because nada sees me as the same (enmeshed) with her so

therefore I can't possibly be allowed to have feelings about anything, just like

her. So therefore I don't count and should just shut up and put up. Maybe that

was my blessing as I can function in normal society now.

Anyway, Nada always doted on golden boy whilst punishing, ignoring, or bad

mouthing bad brother. Both boys became completely enmeshed with her and acted

out outrageously in very different ways. Nada had no boundaries whatsoever with

either boy, and often was over indulgent with gifts, money, etc, but only with

the boys. Both brothers ended up crippled emotionally and completely dependent

on nada financially and emotionally.

Painted black bada is now NPD, bipolar, abusive, broke and chronically

unemployed, alcoholic (uses drugs), controlling, unstable, a criminal, theif,

and physically violent.. oh and he lives with nada still at age 33 and abuses

her. Golden boy is 36 and is still cannot hold a job, is broke, bully, and

emotionally unstable, drinks/uses drugs but is not as physically violent

anymore. Nada, nor either bada has ever had a successful romantic relationship

ever; all three will remain enmeshed with eachother and single, probably

forever. They now think it is unnatural for an adult child to want to have a

life/holiday events separate from the FOO. It's so enmeshed and gross that it's

almost incestuous....... ewwwww, ew, ew.

My suggestion to try and involve these young boys in activities and people

outside the home is to try to offset the negative dysfunction they're

experiencing at home. I noticed that my brothers would behave better, as

children, when they were involved in hockey and music groups. The healthy adults

and children seemed to have a calming and reassuring affect on them, but nada

pulled them from these things gradually over time........ that's when things got

worse.

It seemed the more enmeshed and the more time they spent at home near nada, the

more they seemed to break down and become dysfunctional and abusive themselves.

I am talking violent outbursts here, one brother strangled his girlfriend as a

teenager (she lived to tell me the awful tale), the other poured beer and water

on my head for no apparent reason. These are just examples but it was bad, very

bad, extreme physical and emotional abuse towards women. They started thinking

this was normal behaviour because nada encouraged it, reinforced it, encouraged

the women (me and her) to be victims and submissive, etc. etc.

When outsiders were around, the boys behaved better and responded to boundaries.

When they were isolated from healthy people all hell broke loose. So I am

convinced that, during formative years, the more positive and outside influences

on the BPD children, the better. Make sense?

, I hope this helps and I realize this is long but I want you to understand

the background and basis for my suggestion. God help these boys.

Good luck.

[Guest guest]

Doug, I vote " The Rock. "

The boy may not be able to act . . . but who cares?

> > > >

> > > > Doug,

> > > >

> > > > I wish I had the authority to " get them into therapy. "

> Unfortuately,

> > > it is also not in my power to " get them the f*** out of there. "

> > > >

> > > > I have a borderline mother and used to frequent this board. So I

> know

> > > what many of the effects are. I remember you and hoped you might

> > > respond. I was just hoping to find out how it might have been

> different

> > > for boys. I am guessing from your response that you think your

> gender

> > > made the situation worse for you? Is that right? I would be

> interested

> > > in hearing some elaboration if you are willing.

> > > >

> > > > Best of luck with your book.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your suggestions!

It is difficult to get them away from their foo. This mom is already jealous of

me and my " perfect " little family. Their parents are still married, and I'm

hoping to visit with the dad more to see what his understanding is of the

situation and see what he is doing for them. I know they got to go to summer

camp away for a whole week, and they were thrilled.

I will make more efforts to get them involved in experiences outside of their

home.

>

> ,

>

> I have a suggestion for you which are based on my experiences and observations

about my brothers. , if you can work it out, get these boys into activites

outside of their family home/influence. Sports, scouts, music, social groups,

friends, trips, whatever...... anything to get them away from their BPD family

as much as possible. A LOT OF TIME SPENT AWAY FROM THE FOO IS KEY. I suggest

this because...

>

> Firsly, I am the adult daughter of a BPD waif/witch type mother and I have two

older brothers. My fada and nada divorced when we were in elementary school,

fada is an alcoholic/drug addict NPD and was mostly absent from our lives after

about Jr. high school.

>

> My nada split the two boys black and white. Oldest was golden, middle boy was

split rotten and I was basically ignored and/or scapegoated by all three. Nada

was and still is, trying to make up for the idiot/absentee father, for some

reason she thinks the boys suffered more than me because of this. According to

her, I guess I don't have feelings about it, and couldn't possibly be damaged by

it. I think it's because nada sees me as the same (enmeshed) with her so

therefore I can't possibly be allowed to have feelings about anything, just like

her. So therefore I don't count and should just shut up and put up. Maybe that

was my blessing as I can function in normal society now.

>

> Anyway, Nada always doted on golden boy whilst punishing, ignoring, or bad

mouthing bad brother. Both boys became completely enmeshed with her and acted

out outrageously in very different ways. Nada had no boundaries whatsoever with

either boy, and often was over indulgent with gifts, money, etc, but only with

the boys. Both brothers ended up crippled emotionally and completely dependent

on nada financially and emotionally.

>

> Painted black bada is now NPD, bipolar, abusive, broke and chronically

unemployed, alcoholic (uses drugs), controlling, unstable, a criminal, theif,

and physically violent.. oh and he lives with nada still at age 33 and abuses

her. Golden boy is 36 and is still cannot hold a job, is broke, bully, and

emotionally unstable, drinks/uses drugs but is not as physically violent

anymore. Nada, nor either bada has ever had a successful romantic relationship

ever; all three will remain enmeshed with eachother and single, probably

forever. They now think it is unnatural for an adult child to want to have a

life/holiday events separate from the FOO. It's so enmeshed and gross that it's

almost incestuous....... ewwwww, ew, ew.

>

> My suggestion to try and involve these young boys in activities and people

outside the home is to try to offset the negative dysfunction they're

experiencing at home. I noticed that my brothers would behave better, as

children, when they were involved in hockey and music groups. The healthy adults

and children seemed to have a calming and reassuring affect on them, but nada

pulled them from these things gradually over time........ that's when things got

worse.

>

> It seemed the more enmeshed and the more time they spent at home near nada,

the more they seemed to break down and become dysfunctional and abusive

themselves. I am talking violent outbursts here, one brother strangled his

girlfriend as a teenager (she lived to tell me the awful tale), the other poured

beer and water on my head for no apparent reason. These are just examples but it

was bad, very bad, extreme physical and emotional abuse towards women. They

started thinking this was normal behaviour because nada encouraged it,

reinforced it, encouraged the women (me and her) to be victims and submissive,

etc. etc.

>

> When outsiders were around, the boys behaved better and responded to

boundaries. When they were isolated from healthy people all hell broke loose. So

I am convinced that, during formative years, the more positive and outside

influences on the BPD children, the better. Make sense?

>

> , I hope this helps and I realize this is long but I want you to

understand the background and basis for my suggestion. God help these boys.

>

> Good luck.

>

[Guest guest]

My nada also hated my brothers' wife, long before they were even married.

If they visited my parents, nada wouldn't even say 'hi'.....just go right

into insults to her.... " I hate your dress " is one my SIL and I remember

clearly. And just like fada, bro wouldn't say a word to defend her. Also

similar, nada would be sweet as apple pie to my boyfriends, and now my

husband, and openly insult me in front of them to the point of me having to

leave the room and break down in tears. She's not capable of pulling that crap

anymore, but when I was under their 'spell' she sure could. If anyone

challenged her, she would just say " oh, you're so sensitive, I was just

kidding! " She would giggle, and get away with it for the moment.

Laurie

In a message dated 10/1/2010 12:48:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

crazy150345@... writes:

I think my brothers experiences were a bit different to mine - for starters

two girls and he lived with their father, so they only had to deal with

mum on school holidays and the randlom times she would pop in on them for a

visit. They were always " evil " because she had not been allowed to have

custody of them, and I dont think my mother ever had any real attachment to

them.

One thing thatI think might be a common thing with BP mothers, is HATING

their sons partners with a vengence that us girls dont seem to get as much.

It wasnt until my brother had a serious girlfrined that mum really got into

his life. With me, she would be nasty to MY face about a partner but be

all chummy to the guy; with my brother, she would be nasty to the girlfriend

directly. It was a lot less covert/slimy and more " I hate you and will spit

on you if I see you again " .

My brother now does the same as me, doesnt call, and hangs up if she calls

and gets nasty. So far she has been nice to his wife, but bitches about

her constantly behind her back. I dont think mum realises, but my SIL will

happily tear her a new you-know-what if it is required - she dont take

rubbish from noone, which is why I like her so much :]

>

> For those of you who are sons of borderline parents: Do you think there

is anything specific to your experience that is different from the

experiences of daughters? Or does what you read from females here describe your

experience also? To cope, did you " act-out " (e.g., aggression, crime, sex,

etc.) or " act-in " (e.g., depression, eating disorders, alcohol, etc.)? If you

read " Understanding the Borderline Mother, " did you find it helpful?

>

> I have mentioned before that two young boys I know have a alcoholic Waif

mother. I have another friend who has asked me for advice in dealing with

her BPD MIL, and also the strain it puts on her marriage when her husband

gives in to her. I would like to know how to be as effective as possible in

my reaching out to these young men and their families, and wondered whether

gender would affect how they process the abuse.

>

> If you are female but have a brother or husband with BPD parents, feel

free to add your two cents.

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

My nada split me white and my brother black - while there were variations

and she sometimes switched this or painted us both white or both black at

the same time, this was the usual case. It seems that other's experience

were opposite though, boy being the golden child, so it may have just been

our particular situation. There were only the two of us so I don' know. Nada

had a much more explosive relationship with my brother, but he also tended

to not take her crap and to yell at her or call her on it while I was a

passive people pleaser. So, again I don't know how much of the differences

my brother and I experienced were due to our gender or other factors.

>

>

> For those of you who are sons of borderline parents: Do you think there is

> anything specific to your experience that is different from the experiences

> of daughters? Or does what you read from females here describe your

> experience also? To cope, did you " act-out " (e.g., aggression, crime, sex,

> etc.) or " act-in " (e.g., depression, eating disorders, alcohol, etc.)? If

> you read " Understanding the Borderline Mother, " did you find it helpful?

>

> I have mentioned before that two young boys I know have a alcoholic Waif

> mother. I have another friend who has asked me for advice in dealing with

> her BPD MIL, and also the strain it puts on her marriage when her husband

> gives in to her. I would like to know how to be as effective as possible in

> my reaching out to these young men and their families, and wondered whether

> gender would affect how they process the abuse.

>

> If you are female but have a brother or husband with BPD parents, feel free

> to add your two cents.

>

> Thanks,

>

>

>

>