Re: I'm DIZZY

[Guest guest]

Wow, Meg-

Thanks for sharing...work is slow for me tonight, so I'm lucky to be able to

spend some time reading the messages here, and respond to some as well.

I'll address the part about the siblings...

My mother is BPD. For years upon years, she manipulated me into believing the

problem I had with my only sibling was because HE WAS THE CRAZY ONE. I believed

her version of incidents, slights, etc., when the truth was so in my face, I

couldn't even see it!

Now that I have had some time away from her constant manipulation, I can clearly

see why my brother has done many of the things he has chosen to do, when it

comes to my mother. He cut contact with her, for years, because she was indeed

so toxic. So toxic, she hauled him and his first wife into court, because my

mother claims his first wife took a perceived insult to mean actual bodily harm.

I believed for years, that all my mother did was simply call my ex-sister in law

a red-haired, sheep-dog looking bi..., but in reality, NO one gets a permanent

restraining order based on that. There had to have been real danger presented

for the judge to issue the order.

If your sibings in law are buying every single emotional manipulation your MIL

is giving out, it does make it impossible for you and your family to have a

decent relationship.

My brother tried for years to " talk things out " with my mother. How in the world

does anyone talk out anything with someone who refuses to believe they've done

anything wrong, and can turn every conversation around into how people have

" injured " her? I think my mother also has some narcissitic personality traits,

too. I've never met anyone who can take any situation, book, movie, or news

story and turn it around into how it impacts her, but that's a story for another

day!

I'm struggling with no contact with my mother right now. The blessing in this, I

am able to spend time with my brother and his wife, as well as my nieces and

nephew. The kids clearly understand that their grandmother has mental problems,

but-- their aunt is sane. They also understand their aunt did everything she

could to help their grandmother; however, sometimes, we can only help people as

much as they want to be helped.

I don't know if I've offered anything to help you, all of this is a new struggle

for me, as well. I hope it helps to know there are others out here (It's only

within the last 6 months I've realized I'm not the only one with the crazy

mother!) who are going through such struggles as you are...I wanted to offer up

to you a reason why your SIL might not be able to have the relationship she

could be having with you...

>

> Hello All,

>

> I'm new to this group and my MIL is BPD. I've been married for 5 years and

we've finally broke ties with her because we can't seem to manage a relationship

with her at all. We have kids and we need to protect them from her.

>

> The issue now is: since we have stopped talking to her, she's worked her lies

into other siblings of the family and turned them against us. Her husband won't

talk to us anymore as well - which is sad because he has cancer and we don't

know how long he has left. He has never been able to assert himself with her.

We've made it clear that we'd like to discuss the issues at hand, but no one

will respond. Instead they play victim and ignore our suggestions to address the

issue and talk things out.

>

> I think my sister-in-law is BPD as well.

> Last week I found a gift wrapped in black paper on my front doorstep. It was a

Birthday present to my son (his birthday was 6 months ago). The card had all of

these passive aggressive statements about how she wished she could see him

(we've never said that she couldn't, and he was on the other side of the door

when she left the gift. She could have knocked and come in). She is playing the

guilt game as well.

>

> My brother-in-law committed suicide this last year. No doubt because of being

raised by a woman that constantly belittled him and broke him down. She pushed

him right up to the edge and he jumped. I sort of feel like it was empowering to

her to have that much control over him - enough control to cause him to kill

himself. He committed suicide on mother's day. She somehow came out of the deal

preaching that he was the best son ever, and that she was the best mother.

Months before, when he was alive, she only talked about what a disappointment he

had always been to her.

>

> Has anyone read the book Understanding the Borderline Mother? I love it so

far, but don't really feel like it's teaching me enough techniques to help me

not get emotional about the situation.

>

> I need help trying to support my husband because he was raised by her. What is

your advise for me, the spouse? Right now we aren't talking to the mom, dad, and

both sisters. The Holidays are coming up and I'm dreading the gifts with

strings, mass Christmas letters with lies to family and friends, and guilt games

about not seeing the family around the Holidays. Any advice there either? It

sounds like y'all have way more experience with this then I do.

>

> Meg

>

[Guest guest]

Sunny,

THANK YOU.

> >

> > Hello All,

> >

> > I'm new to this group and my MIL is BPD. I've been married for 5 years and

we've finally broke ties with her because we can't seem to manage a relationship

with her at all. We have kids and we need to protect them from her.

> >

> > The issue now is: since we have stopped talking to her, she's worked her

lies into other siblings of the family and turned them against us. Her husband

won't talk to us anymore as well - which is sad because he has cancer and we

don't know how long he has left. He has never been able to assert himself with

her. We've made it clear that we'd like to discuss the issues at hand, but no

one will respond. Instead they play victim and ignore our suggestions to address

the issue and talk things out.

> >

> > I think my sister-in-law is BPD as well.

> > Last week I found a gift wrapped in black paper on my front doorstep. It was

a Birthday present to my son (his birthday was 6 months ago). The card had all

of these passive aggressive statements about how she wished she could see him

(we've never said that she couldn't, and he was on the other side of the door

when she left the gift. She could have knocked and come in). She is playing the

guilt game as well.

> >

> > My brother-in-law committed suicide this last year. No doubt because of

being raised by a woman that constantly belittled him and broke him down. She

pushed him right up to the edge and he jumped. I sort of feel like it was

empowering to her to have that much control over him - enough control to cause

him to kill himself. He committed suicide on mother's day. She somehow came out

of the deal preaching that he was the best son ever, and that she was the best

mother. Months before, when he was alive, she only talked about what a

disappointment he had always been to her.

> >

> > Has anyone read the book Understanding the Borderline Mother? I love it so

far, but don't really feel like it's teaching me enough techniques to help me

not get emotional about the situation.

> >

> > I need help trying to support my husband because he was raised by her. What

is your advise for me, the spouse? Right now we aren't talking to the mom, dad,

and both sisters. The Holidays are coming up and I'm dreading the gifts with

strings, mass Christmas letters with lies to family and friends, and guilt games

about not seeing the family around the Holidays. Any advice there either? It

sounds like y'all have way more experience with this then I do.

> >

> > Meg

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Meg - you asked about the role of the spouse, and about holiday pressure.

Herewith - a list of things my husband HAS done to support me in the face of my

mom's BPD behavior, and things I WISH he'd do.

Most important - early on, he saw through my mom's facade and believed me.

Neither of us could explain her behavior, but he validated that there was

something wrong, and it wasn't me. He could throw his dirty socks on the floor

for the rest of his life, and I'd forgive him - just because he believed that I

wasn't what my mother said I was.

When I'd come home from visiting my parents, I'd be shaking and sobbing, and

he'd put up with me. Nobody else we knew had this kind of reaction to

Thanksgiving dinner with the folks. He could have assumed that I was just

oversensitive or crazy myself, but because he'd seen my mother in operation, he

would just give me a hug and let me cry through it, then we'd go do something

fun.

When I realized that we could NOT let our son be Mom's next victim, my husband

never, ever said " but she's his grandmother... " He was fully behind me when I

cut ties, just as he was patient when I was still in her clutches. While she

messed with me the most, she's done her share of messing with his head, too. He

put up with it, but was more than ready to walk away when I did.

That being said - he's enmeshed with his own family, and we have conflict about

that. He's a lot more able to set boundaries (brick walls!) with my mom than he

is with his own relatives. It's not perfect, but I think he'll get there

eventually. That puts me in your shoes, Meg - the spouse of the person with the

crazies in their family tree.

So - I WISH he'd just go ahead and say what we're both thinking ( " my niece is a

skank and my nephew is a loss to humankind " ) rather than defending them due to

family loyalty. Then we could get past it and move on.

I WISH he'd quit trying to make peace with his family, or be involved with them

at the holidays, or feel guilty that they have children who need guidance, etc.

He can't fix them any more than I can fix my mom. I wish he'd declare his

allegiance to our own family unit and let his relatives stew in their own

dysfunctional juices.

I wish he'd quit making long-term (as in, retirement) plans that involve owning

stuff with his brother. This is going to be bad, bad news for a long, long

time. But he won't listen.

As to the holidays - if I had the power to do it, I'd book a cruise for our

small family unit, or a ski trip, or plan a road trip for all the major

holidays. Put down the deposits, start packing, and under no circumstances be

available for the extended family crapfest that runs from Halloween to New

Year's.

But that's just me...

> > >

> > > Hello All,

> > >

> > > I'm new to this group and my MIL is BPD. I've been married for 5 years and

we've finally broke ties with her because we can't seem to manage a relationship

with her at all. We have kids and we need to protect them from her.

> > >

> > > The issue now is: since we have stopped talking to her, she's worked her

lies into other siblings of the family and turned them against us. Her husband

won't talk to us anymore as well - which is sad because he has cancer and we

don't know how long he has left. He has never been able to assert himself with

her. We've made it clear that we'd like to discuss the issues at hand, but no

one will respond. Instead they play victim and ignore our suggestions to address

the issue and talk things out.

> > >

> > > I think my sister-in-law is BPD as well.

> > > Last week I found a gift wrapped in black paper on my front doorstep. It

was a Birthday present to my son (his birthday was 6 months ago). The card had

all of these passive aggressive statements about how she wished she could see

him (we've never said that she couldn't, and he was on the other side of the

door when she left the gift. She could have knocked and come in). She is playing

the guilt game as well.

> > >

> > > My brother-in-law committed suicide this last year. No doubt because of

being raised by a woman that constantly belittled him and broke him down. She

pushed him right up to the edge and he jumped. I sort of feel like it was

empowering to her to have that much control over him - enough control to cause

him to kill himself. He committed suicide on mother's day. She somehow came out

of the deal preaching that he was the best son ever, and that she was the best

mother. Months before, when he was alive, she only talked about what a

disappointment he had always been to her.

> > >

> > > Has anyone read the book Understanding the Borderline Mother? I love it so

far, but don't really feel like it's teaching me enough techniques to help me

not get emotional about the situation.

> > >

> > > I need help trying to support my husband because he was raised by her.

What is your advise for me, the spouse? Right now we aren't talking to the mom,

dad, and both sisters. The Holidays are coming up and I'm dreading the gifts

with strings, mass Christmas letters with lies to family and friends, and guilt

games about not seeing the family around the Holidays. Any advice there either?

It sounds like y'all have way more experience with this then I do.

> > >

> > > Meg

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I know what you mean hun! Im very lucky at the moment that Ive found a lovely

man who - although he has only met mum twice - believes me when I say she isnt

as nice as she seems. Ive recently told him a few of the more full-on incidents

that happened when I was a kid and he said he isnt surprised I stay away from

her. So thankgoodness for that.

Having said that tho, it is ALWAYS easier for people to be objective about

someone elses family rather than their own (hence why he thinks his family is

fine). And every family has some wierdos of some description - some wierder and

crazier than others. Most people just wont admit it.

Probably the best thing you can do is not say anything about his family - if he

is defensive it will take longer for him to admit that they really are a pain.

Perhaps it is better to encourage him to spend MORE time with them - the sooner

it all goes pearshaped and to hell in a flaming handbasket, the sooner he will

realise what they are like.

While he does that, go get a massage, go shoe shopping, have coffee with

girlfriends etc ;] No need for both of you to suffer!

>

> Meg - you asked about the role of the spouse, and about holiday pressure.

Herewith - a list of things my husband HAS done to support me in the face of my

mom's BPD behavior, and things I WISH he'd do.

>

> Most important - early on, he saw through my mom's facade and believed me.

Neither of us could explain her behavior, but he validated that there was

something wrong, and it wasn't me. He could throw his dirty socks on the floor

for the rest of his life, and I'd forgive him - just because he believed that I

wasn't what my mother said I was.

>

> When I'd come home from visiting my parents, I'd be shaking and sobbing, and

he'd put up with me. Nobody else we knew had this kind of reaction to

Thanksgiving dinner with the folks. He could have assumed that I was just

oversensitive or crazy myself, but because he'd seen my mother in operation, he

would just give me a hug and let me cry through it, then we'd go do something

fun.

>

> When I realized that we could NOT let our son be Mom's next victim, my husband

never, ever said " but she's his grandmother... " He was fully behind me when I

cut ties, just as he was patient when I was still in her clutches. While she

messed with me the most, she's done her share of messing with his head, too. He

put up with it, but was more than ready to walk away when I did.

>

> That being said - he's enmeshed with his own family, and we have conflict

about that. He's a lot more able to set boundaries (brick walls!) with my mom

than he is with his own relatives. It's not perfect, but I think he'll get

there eventually. That puts me in your shoes, Meg - the spouse of the person

with the crazies in their family tree.

>

> So - I WISH he'd just go ahead and say what we're both thinking ( " my niece is

a skank and my nephew is a loss to humankind " ) rather than defending them due to

family loyalty. Then we could get past it and move on.

>

> I WISH he'd quit trying to make peace with his family, or be involved with

them at the holidays, or feel guilty that they have children who need guidance,

etc. He can't fix them any more than I can fix my mom. I wish he'd declare his

allegiance to our own family unit and let his relatives stew in their own

dysfunctional juices.

>

> I wish he'd quit making long-term (as in, retirement) plans that involve

owning stuff with his brother. This is going to be bad, bad news for a long,

long time. But he won't listen.

>

> As to the holidays - if I had the power to do it, I'd book a cruise for our

small family unit, or a ski trip, or plan a road trip for all the major

holidays. Put down the deposits, start packing, and under no circumstances be

available for the extended family crapfest that runs from Halloween to New

Year's.

>

> But that's just me...

>

>