Re: Anxiety/Crying, Is It Strep Infection or Antibiotic That Is Triggering It?

February 20, 2011

Does Calm PRT have L-theanine? Known to cause crying outbursts in my daughter. My son does ok with L-theanine. My daughter is really sensitive to phenols/salicylates...

My son (high functioning asperger, 12 yr old), has had anxiety problems in the past along with gut issues. He has been doing so well for the last few years with the treatment from our DAN! Dr, and now due to a strep infection and antibiotic use has really relapsed. He has been crying constantly when something doesn't go his way, or he suffers from the slightest dissapointment. He is getting so frustrated that he is pulling at his skin with frustration. I thought this was something in our past and am very discouraged to see this behavior resurface. My question is this, is it the strep infection (he has shown a high count during previous testing), or the antibiotic (Amoxacilin) that he is on that is causing the problem?

I am giving him a good probiotic, am planning on doubling it, as well as, starting the Calm PRT again to help regulate his neurotransmitters. Has anyone else experienced this? If so, did you see the symptoms go away once the antibiotics are stopped? Any advise is appreciated.

Thanks In Advance,

Connie

-- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

February 20, 2011

No, I don't believe it does. I don't have the bottle in front of me to look. We had gotten to the point where he didn't need it anymore until now. I had my son on L-theanine for a while, but took him off of it. It's been over 6 months since he was on that. I will have to look at the Calm PRT bottle when I pick it up tomorrow from our DAN. I do know the Calm PRT made a HUGE improvement with his anxiety, and his Dr said it takes about 6 months to see the full benefits. I pray that it does not take that long this time around. I'm still hoping that it's the antibiotic, and when we get off of it he will go back to the place where he was before the strep began!

Connie

To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Sun, February 20, 2011 9:21:26 PMSubject: Re: Anxiety/Crying, Is It Strep Infection or Antibiotic That Is Triggering It?

Does Calm PRT have L-theanine? Known to cause crying outbursts in my daughter. My son does ok with L-theanine. My daughter is really sensitive to phenols/salicylates...

My son (high functioning asperger, 12 yr old), has had anxiety problems in the past along with gut issues. He has been doing so well for the last few years with the treatment from our DAN! Dr, and now due to a strep infection and antibiotic use has really relapsed. He has been crying constantly when something doesn't go his way, or he suffers from the slightest dissapointment. He is getting so frustrated that he is pulling at his skin with frustration. I thought this was something in our past and am very discouraged to see this behavior resurface. My question is this, is it the strep infection (he has shown a high count during previous testing), or the antibiotic (Amoxacilin) that he is on that is causing the problem?I am giving him a good probiotic, am planning on doubling it, as well as, starting the Calm PRT again to help regulate his neurotransmitters. Has anyone else experienced this? If so, did you see the symptoms go away once the

antibiotics are stopped? Any advise is appreciated.Thanks In Advance,Connie

-- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

February 20, 2011

Did you remove a food recently? Oxalate dumps in me bring on severe anxiety. In my son, aggression.When I am dumping, I need twice the normal GABA I take. When I am not dumping, I can skip my daily GABA and be " ok. "

No, I don't believe it does. I don't have the bottle in front of me to look. We had gotten to the point where he didn't need it anymore until now. I had my son on L-theanine for a while, but took him off of it. It's been over 6 months since he was on that. I will have to look at the Calm PRT bottle when I pick it up tomorrow from our DAN. I do know the Calm PRT made a HUGE improvement with his anxiety, and his Dr said it takes about 6 months to see the full benefits. I pray that it does not take that long this time around. I'm still hoping that it's the antibiotic, and when we get off of it he will go back to the place where he was before the strep began!

Connie

To: mb12 valtrex

Sent: Sun, February 20, 2011 9:21:26 PMSubject: Re: Anxiety/Crying, Is It Strep Infection or Antibiotic That Is Triggering It?

Does Calm PRT have L-theanine? Known to cause crying outbursts in my daughter. My son does ok with L-theanine. My daughter is really sensitive to phenols/salicylates...

My son (high functioning asperger, 12 yr old), has had anxiety problems in the past along with gut issues. He has been doing so well for the last few years with the treatment from our DAN! Dr, and now due to a strep infection and antibiotic use has really relapsed. He has been crying constantly when something doesn't go his way, or he suffers from the slightest dissapointment. He is getting so frustrated that he is pulling at his skin with frustration. I thought this was something in our past and am very discouraged to see this behavior resurface. My question is this, is it the strep infection (he has shown a high count during previous testing), or the antibiotic (Amoxacilin) that he is on that is causing the problem?

I am giving him a good probiotic, am planning on doubling it, as well as, starting the Calm PRT again to help regulate his neurotransmitters. Has anyone else experienced this? If so, did you see the symptoms go away once the

antibiotics are stopped? Any advise is appreciated.Thanks In Advance,Connie

-- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

February 20, 2011

No, I have not changed anything other than the antibiotic when he got strep. He also takes GABA. His supplements are: Multi Vit, B6, B12, folic acid, Vit D, Vit C, Enhansa, Phosphatidyl Choline, Candida Clear, N-Acetyl Cysteine, Probiotics and Digestive Enzymes, Melatonin, and prescriptions are Valtrex, Nexium, Impipramine & Intuniv. With this regimine, he has been in a really good place. For the past year he has mainstreamed with the neighborhood kids, playing in the street every afternoon without conflict, being invited and participating in sleep overs, etc. That is saying a lot considering that 2 years ago, he couldn't be left with anyone but immediate family (me, dad, brother or sisters who are all adults) without having an anxiety meltdown.

Connie

To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Sun, February 20, 2011 9:42:34 PMSubject: Re: Anxiety/Crying, Is It Strep Infection or Antibiotic That Is Triggering It?

Did you remove a food recently? Oxalate dumps in me bring on severe anxiety. In my son, aggression.When I am dumping, I need twice the normal GABA I take. When I am not dumping, I can skip my daily GABA and be "ok."

No, I don't believe it does. I don't have the bottle in front of me to look. We had gotten to the point where he didn't need it anymore until now. I had my son on L-theanine for a while, but took him off of it. It's been over 6 months since he was on that. I will have to look at the Calm PRT bottle when I pick it up tomorrow from our DAN. I do know the Calm PRT made a HUGE improvement with his anxiety, and his Dr said it takes about 6 months to see the full benefits. I pray that it does not take that long this time around. I'm still hoping that it's the antibiotic, and when we get off of it he will go back to the place where he was before the strep began!

Connie

To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Sun, February 20, 2011 9:21:26 PMSubject: Re: Anxiety/Crying, Is It Strep Infection or Antibiotic That Is Triggering It?

Does Calm PRT have L-theanine? Known to cause crying outbursts in my daughter. My son does ok with L-theanine. My daughter is really sensitive to phenols/salicylates...

My son (high functioning asperger, 12 yr old), has had anxiety problems in the past along with gut issues. He has been doing so well for the last few years with the treatment from our DAN! Dr, and now due to a strep infection and antibiotic use has really relapsed. He has been crying constantly when something doesn't go his way, or he suffers from the slightest dissapointment. He is getting so frustrated that he is pulling at his skin with frustration. I thought this was something in our past and am very discouraged to see this behavior resurface. My question is this, is it the strep infection (he has shown a high count during previous testing), or the antibiotic (Amoxacilin) that he is on that is causing the problem?I am giving him a good probiotic, am planning on doubling it, as well as, starting the Calm PRT again to help regulate his neurotransmitters. Has anyone else experienced this? If so, did you see the symptoms go away once the

antibiotics are stopped? Any advise is appreciated.Thanks In Advance,Connie

-- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.

February 20, 2011

Connie,

There are some things about the whole PANDAS, strep things that have really

puzzled me, and maybe you and some other parents can give me some insights.

Toni has proposed that there are a lot of shared symptoms when these episodes

come on compared to oxalate dumping. Could there be some reason it would be

linked?

Scientists have found that bacteria CAN survive within kidney stones, but they

certainly haven't looked anywhere else but the kidney, and these tend to be in

calcium phosphate stones, but may start with oxalate. See

http://www.endotext.org/parathyroid/parathyroid14/ch01s04.html

Liths can be found in other places, and calcium oxalate is discoverable on Xrays

within tissues all over the body in oxalosis, especially in the bone, but that's

different from stones.

66% of the oxalate that is retained in the body is retained in the bone, making

sense of why many kids that were growing and having growing pains found that

after decreasing oxalate, the pain went away. Other children just were not

growing, but after the low oxalate diet wove its magic, some who had not grown

for a year or more had catch up growth of as much as five inches. Genetic

hyperoxaluria also causes growth problems in children.

So, we know that oxalate may store in bone and other tissues, but is there

enough there that it may harbor an infection if that infection happens when

blood levels of oxalate were high?

If so, it might be that during " dumping " , when oxalate crystals may dissolve in

tissues and cause oxalate release, that maybe at the same time it releases strep

that had been encapsulated.

The unfortunate thing about that idea if it were true is that the released

oxalate would cause oxidative stress at the same time as the body was trying to

fight this infection and that is a bad combination because the immune response

would be weakened, probably, as well as the blood brain barrier by cytokines

involved with infection.

Is there any chance this happens?

You who have kids with PANDAS or recurrent strep, was there any chance your

child was high in oxalate in blood when his first strep infection took place?

That could explain why dumping and a new outbreak of strep might happen at the

same time, but I don't know if this actually might happen. At one point, it

seemed we had several parents who found strep titres went up during dumping when

they knew it was dumping because of being on the diet. I think dumping happens

also when you are on a high oxalate diet periodically when the body recognizes

the blood is too high in oxalate.

One article below said, " Streptococcus faecalis, a nonurea -splitting bacteria,

also was found in some infection stones and probably represents a superimposed

infection as a result of changes in

bacterial flora owing to treatment with antibiotics. "

I'd like to ask those who have the recurrent strep what you think.

I'll put some articles below on the way bacteria can survive inside oxalate

crystals.

Connie, the biochemistry is certainly obvious why gut issues may accompany

dumping.

On the oxalate listserve at Trying_Low_Oxalates , we have had a

lot of conversation about attitudes changing during dumping, like people without

autism getting to where they lose their theory of mind temporarily and just

cannot see someone else's perspective, and they get anxious, depressed,

combative, sullen, etc.

The skin may have pain, or itch, or lose its feeling or get tingly. Many people

dump oxalate to the skin and it can cause rashes, and if severe as in in genetic

hyperoxaluria, lesions that look just like those you might see in

diabetes...even gangrene. But the counter to that is that in time people who

have had skin lesions can lose them while on the diet!

One of the vendors has developed what is purported to degrade oxalate that

doesn't have the strep species in it that has caused some people problems in

either VSL#3 or Now brand 4X6 which were tested by an independent laboratory.

We don't know what this company did in proving the oxalate degradation on that

product, so I can't endorse it, really. I wish they had been in touch with us!

I hope this got to your questions.

1. J Urol. 1984 Jul;132(1):67-9.

Scanning electron microscopy detects bacteria within infection stones.

Takeuchi H, Takayama H, Konishi T, Tomoyoshi T.

The viability and location of bacteria within infection stones were

investigated.

Many stones were infected with urea-splitting bacteria, such as Proteus

mirabilis

and Pseudomonas aeruginosa. Large numbers of bacterial impressions and bodies

were found in the interstices surrounded by crystals of apatite and struvite

from

the nuclei to the peripheral layers. The presence of bacterial colonies even in

the nuclear portion of the stones suggests that bacteria participate in the

initial stone formation as well as in growth of infection stones. Streptococcus

faecalis, a nonurea -splitting bacteria, also was found in some infection stones

and probably represents a superimposed infection as a result of changes in

bacterial flora owing to treatment with antibiotics.

PMID: 6427487 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

2. J Endourol. 2009 Mar;23(3):519-22.

Interaction of intracorporeal lithotripters with Proteus mirabilis inoculated

inside artificial calcium and struvite stones.

Gómez-Núñez JG, Alvarez UM, Fernández F, Aceves JG, Loske AM.

Instituto de Endourología, Hospital Puerta de Hierro, Zapopan, México.

gusgo@...

BACKGROUND AND PURPOSE: Renal calculi may contain bacteria that can remain

active

inside the stone and produce bacteremia and/or endotoxemia after lithotripsy.

Urinary tract infection associated with urinary stones represents high

morbidity.

The purpose of this research was to use novel artificial struvite stones

inoculated with living bacteria and to study the effect of four different

intracorporeal lithotripters on bacterial inactivation after in vitro

lithotripsy.

MATERIALS AND METHODS: Two types of artificial kidney stone models (calcium

sulphate and mixed struvite-calcium sulphate) were manufactured and infected

with

Proteus mirabilis. Stones were fractured using either electrohydraulic, laser,

ultrasonic, or pneumatic lithotripters. Bacterial viability was determined

before

and after the lithotripsy.

RESULTS: Bacterial inactivation was not affected by the stone matrix; ie,

calcium

or struvite. The four tested lithotripters were almost equally efficient at

reducing the viability of P mirabilis in both the low and the high energy

setting.

CONCLUSIONS: We were able to obtain novel artificial struvite stones infected

with bacteria. Intracorporeal lithotripters are efficient at reducing the

viability of P mirabilis in vitro. Tested stone materials play a minor role

regarding inactivation. Whether the bactericidal effect reported is desirable or

not is still to be answered, because the presence of endotoxin from cell lysis

may increase the risk of urosepsis.

PMID: 19216637 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

>

> My son (high functioning asperger, 12 yr old), has had anxiety problems in the

past along with gut issues. He has been doing so well for the last few years

with the treatment from our DAN! Dr, and now due to a strep infection and

antibiotic use has really relapsed. He has been crying constantly when something

doesn't go his way, or he suffers from the slightest dissapointment. He is

getting so frustrated that he is pulling at his skin with frustration. I

thought this was something in our past and am very discouraged to see this

behavior resurface. My question is this, is it the strep infection (he has

shown a high count during previous testing), or the antibiotic (Amoxacilin) that

he is on that is causing the problem?

>

> I am giving him a good probiotic, am planning on doubling it, as well as,

starting the Calm PRT again to help regulate his neurotransmitters. Has anyone

else experienced this? If so, did you see the symptoms go away once the

antibiotics are stopped? Any advise is appreciated.

>

> Thanks In Advance,

> Connie

>

February 20, 2011

both those things can also tie into PANDAS and it may mean the strep has triggered it and the antibitoics aren't working and you need to try a different one