Re: having a chat to those who knew your family

[Guest guest]

no but I would really like to know that.

I guess my therapist would say its our impressions that matter the most

anyway --- but I would love to know!

On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 7:09 PM, crazy150345 wrote:

>

>

> Has anyone here gone back to their home town (or mothers family) and sat

> down for a chat about what their impressions were of your childhood?

>

> I had a close friend of mine over for dinner last night and even though we

> have been close since I was 3, we have never really talked about my mother.

> I was telling her about this website, and explaining to her what mum was

> like behind closed doors. She said she knew as a kid that mum was a bit

> " funny " , but said that mum was nothing but lovely to her. I told her that

> the main reason I loved having her over to stay was that mum was nice to all

> of us while other kids were around - we got a holiday of sorts from the

> craziness when friends were over. She knows that mum is nuts. she has heard

> enough of the general stuff over the years, so she believes me when I tell

> her it was worse than she ever knew.

>

> Her parents are probably the only people that have ever had a long term

> " friendship " with my mother. I say that loosely, as I think it was more of a

> case of them putting up with her (they are the loveliest patient people in

> the world!). I would never tell my friend that mum used to say horrid things

> about her and her parents. I dont think that is necessary!!

>

> My friend said her parents always knew there was something wrong with mum,

> but when she visits them later this week, she is going to have a chat to

> them and see how much they really figured out over the years. Id find it

> fascinating to know the viewpoint of other people, and cant wait to hear

> what they have to say.

>

> Has anyone else had a frank discussion with friends parents/relatives etc,

> about what they really thought was going on when we were living in hell as

> kids? I simply want to talk to people out of curiosity - I find it

> fascinating!!! But only people who REALLY knew mum, not flying monkeys or

> aquaintences. I dont give a crap what they thought..

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I sort of had a conversation. The last fight I had with my mom. was because

she brought me into a fight she was having with my brother. He is the

golden child...and can do no wrong. Therefor since he is angry with her it

has to be because I told him lies...That was what she believed. I tried for

a week to stay neutral..I really did but I ended up blowing up on her one

day..and said some thing that felt good to for me to say.

My brother also involved my uncle (her brother) . When I told my brother

what I said we stated talking about how crazy she is and has always been..he

reminded me that she use to tie us up and put duct tape on our mouth and

lock using the shed for what seemed hours...I had forgot this so it freaked

me out I just cried and couldn't seem to stop. My brother not use to seeing

me so upset talked me into calling my uncle he said he would make me feel

better that he talked to him and he felt better.

My uncle validated so much for me. I told him about some things that my

brother had apparently told him already he said the details were the same. I

told him she use to bite us all the time..he said when she was young she

would bit people all the time too and that she would threaten to hurt

herself if she had to do something she didn't want to. So he validated a

lot of things for me. I don't know about anyone else but I doubt myself

sometimes..was I just a child with a great imagination..did it all really

happen..so it was good to hear that she has done that before.

He also told me that she use to leave us alone alot when we were too little

to be alone...I remember that!..I remember someone called once and I told

them we were alone and I got a beating and I was to never tell her family I

was alone....(Not strangers..her family)

My cousin who knew of this fight I had with my mom told me.. " my mother is

nuts too...(my mothers sister) but I have to say she never said all the bad

things to me your mother always said to you. I have to admit I grateful my

mother speaks well of me to others " She didn't go into detail of what she

remembered..which is fine My mother never has anything good to say about

me..for years I thought everyone hated me..other then maybe bragging about

something as if it was her accomplishment. She has always called me the

most awful names..which are in Italian and really don't translate well to

tell you any way..

So basically I got to remember somethings I wish I didn't..but I am glad I

did now. Mostly I got some validation. I could talk to them more about it

but frankly I'm afraid of what I don't remember..I have a feeling I

shouldn't go there..not now

Stefanie

On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 9:44 PM, Girlscout Cowboy <girlscout.cowboy@...

> wrote:

> no but I would really like to know that.

>

> I guess my therapist would say its our impressions that matter the most

> anyway --- but I would love to know!

>

> On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 7:09 PM, crazy150345 <crazy150345@...

> >wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Has anyone here gone back to their home town (or mothers family) and sat

> > down for a chat about what their impressions were of your childhood?

> >

> > I had a close friend of mine over for dinner last night and even though

> we

> > have been close since I was 3, we have never really talked about my

> mother.

> > I was telling her about this website, and explaining to her what mum was

> > like behind closed doors. She said she knew as a kid that mum was a bit

> > " funny " , but said that mum was nothing but lovely to her. I told her that

> > the main reason I loved having her over to stay was that mum was nice to

> all

> > of us while other kids were around - we got a holiday of sorts from the

> > craziness when friends were over. She knows that mum is nuts. she has

> heard

> > enough of the general stuff over the years, so she believes me when I

> tell

> > her it was worse than she ever knew.

> >

> > Her parents are probably the only people that have ever had a long term

> > " friendship " with my mother. I say that loosely, as I think it was more

> of a

> > case of them putting up with her (they are the loveliest patient people

> in

> > the world!). I would never tell my friend that mum used to say horrid

> things

> > about her and her parents. I dont think that is necessary!!

> >

> > My friend said her parents always knew there was something wrong with

> mum,

> > but when she visits them later this week, she is going to have a chat to

> > them and see how much they really figured out over the years. Id find it

> > fascinating to know the viewpoint of other people, and cant wait to hear

> > what they have to say.

> >

> > Has anyone else had a frank discussion with friends parents/relatives

> etc,

> > about what they really thought was going on when we were living in hell

> as

> > kids? I simply want to talk to people out of curiosity - I find it

> > fascinating!!! But only people who REALLY knew mum, not flying monkeys or

> > aquaintences. I dont give a crap what they thought..

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I can't help it; to me those who KNOW that a relative is terribly, severely

emotionally ill and yet do *nothing* to intervene and protect the children when

their mentally ill relative neglects, abuses and mistreats her small children

....!?

To me that's worse.

The enablers do more damage than the perp, according to an article

I posted earlier. I totally buy this. Condoning mistreatment of helpless little

children by ignoring it is even worse than actually committing the abuse. Its a

lack of morals and courage as opposed to a lack of sanity. Its unconscionable.

-Annie

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > Has anyone here gone back to their home town (or mothers family) and sat

> > > down for a chat about what their impressions were of your childhood?

> > >

> > > I had a close friend of mine over for dinner last night and even though

> > we

> > > have been close since I was 3, we have never really talked about my

> > mother.

> > > I was telling her about this website, and explaining to her what mum was

> > > like behind closed doors. She said she knew as a kid that mum was a bit

> > > " funny " , but said that mum was nothing but lovely to her. I told her that

> > > the main reason I loved having her over to stay was that mum was nice to

> > all

> > > of us while other kids were around - we got a holiday of sorts from the

> > > craziness when friends were over. She knows that mum is nuts. she has

> > heard

> > > enough of the general stuff over the years, so she believes me when I

> > tell

> > > her it was worse than she ever knew.

> > >

> > > Her parents are probably the only people that have ever had a long term

> > > " friendship " with my mother. I say that loosely, as I think it was more

> > of a

> > > case of them putting up with her (they are the loveliest patient people

> > in

> > > the world!). I would never tell my friend that mum used to say horrid

> > things

> > > about her and her parents. I dont think that is necessary!!

> > >

> > > My friend said her parents always knew there was something wrong with

> > mum,

> > > but when she visits them later this week, she is going to have a chat to

> > > them and see how much they really figured out over the years. Id find it

> > > fascinating to know the viewpoint of other people, and cant wait to hear

> > > what they have to say.

> > >

> > > Has anyone else had a frank discussion with friends parents/relatives

> > etc,

> > > about what they really thought was going on when we were living in hell

> > as

> > > kids? I simply want to talk to people out of curiosity - I find it

> > > fascinating!!! But only people who REALLY knew mum, not flying monkeys or

> > > aquaintences. I dont give a crap what they thought..

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes, I thought there would be mostly responses where people just wouldnt want to

" go there " . I wouldnt have the guts to talk to my mothers family, I dont think,

because they knew more than anyone exactly what she was like and none of them

ever made any effort to check that us kids were ok.

Im interested in my friends parents, as I think they stayed in contact with mum

for the sake of us kids. They used to babysit us and I loved them like an aunt

and uncle. Im really curious as to what their viewpoint of the situation was,

and whether they ever considered doing something about mum. However, mum was so

good at hiding her true self from friends that I dont blame them for being

ignorant of the fact she was violent etc.

The school however, Im mad at. They KNEW. Even more than mumns family, they

KNEW. My friend suggested that we go to the school soon for the opening of a

time capsule that we put things into when we were 6. Im interested to see what I

actually wrote to go in there. Plus, my friend suggested that since all the

older teachers will be there, ask them " what the f & *#k? " and get some real

answers to what was going on behind the scenes when my mother would send nasty

paranoid notes to the school. I want to know if someone ever actually said

something. I think if I found out that they did try to get help for us kids, it

would help me a lot. If not, I want to know why.

I cant help it, its like watching a car crash.. morbidly curious!

>

> I can't help it; to me those who KNOW that a relative is terribly, severely

emotionally ill and yet do *nothing* to intervene and protect the children when

their mentally ill relative neglects, abuses and mistreats her small children

....!?

>

> To me that's worse.

>

> The enablers do more damage than the perp, according to an article

> I posted earlier. I totally buy this. Condoning mistreatment of helpless

little children by ignoring it is even worse than actually committing the abuse.

Its a lack of morals and courage as opposed to a lack of sanity. Its

unconscionable.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

We moved around a lot when I was a child, so many of my childhood contacts are

lost.  Most of the ones that were maintained were maintained by nada...so those

tend to be flying monkeys.  I have one dear cherished friend from my junior high

years that I have stayed in touch with all this time, despite both of us moving

around the globe at different times.  She and her mother are quite willing to

share their own experiences with nada's crazy...apparently part of their

motivation for developing our friendship and staying in touch was that it was

their way of " protecting " ...I spent a lot of time at their home when we lived in

the same state.  AFter that, a lot of contact and effort on their part.  Her mom

told me several years ago " I figured at least if you had to get out and go

somewhere, you'd always be able to come to us "   I only wish I had KNOWN I could

do that back then!

In any case, as my NC has gone on and various family members have been forced to

view me as ME and not through nada's lens of crazy, more and more of my extended

family are willing to step forward and say things.  In a very revealing

conversation with one of my cousin's last year, she spilled out all this stuff

about how her mother had seen the crazy in nada, how it was often a topic of

conversation among the aunts and uncles (all brothers to my dad), and so

>

> Subject: having a chat to those who knew your family

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Date: Thursday, October 7, 2010, 1:09 AM

> Has anyone here gone back to their

> home town (or mothers family) and sat down for a chat about

> what their impressions were of your childhood?

>

> I had a close friend of mine over for dinner last night and

> even though we have been close since I was 3, we have never

> really talked about my mother. I was telling her about this

> website, and explaining to her what mum was like behind

> closed doors. She said she knew as a kid that mum was a bit

> " funny " , but said that mum was nothing but lovely to her. I

> told her that the main reason I loved having her over to

> stay was that mum was nice to all of us while other kids

> were around - we got a holiday of sorts from the craziness

> when friends were over. She knows that mum is nuts. she has

> heard enough of the general stuff over the years, so she

> believes me when I tell her it was worse than she ever

> knew.

>

> Her parents are probably the only people that have ever had

> a long term " friendship " with my mother. I say that loosely,

> as I think it was more of a case of them putting up with her

> (they are the loveliest  patient people in the world!).

> I would never tell my friend that mum used to say horrid

> things about her and her parents. I dont think that is

> necessary!!

>

> My friend said her parents always knew there was something

> wrong with mum, but when she visits them later this week,

> she is going to have a chat to them and see how much they

> really figured out over the years. Id find it fascinating to

> know the viewpoint of other people, and cant wait to hear

> what they have to say.

>

> Has anyone else had a frank discussion with friends

> parents/relatives etc, about what they really thought was

> going on when we were living in hell as kids? I simply want

> to talk to people out of curiosity - I find it

> fascinating!!! But only people who REALLY knew mum, not

> flying monkeys or aquaintences. I dont give a crap what they

> thought..

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>  **This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new

> book The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality

> Disorder: New Tips and Tools to Stop Walking on Eggshells,

> available at www.BPDCentral.com.** Problems? Write @....

> DO NOT RESPOND ON THE LIST.

>

> To unsub from this list, send a blank email to

WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe .

>

>

> Recommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline

> Parent, " and " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to

> find)

[Guest guest]

The closest thing that I can think of is talking to my ex-boyfriend from high

school once when i was around 30 and he referred to my childhood as " your

situation " . I can't remember the sentence but it was something like, " that's

understandable given your situation " . It was rather heartening to hear that

someone had picked up on the craziness. I would have liked to have talked to him

more about it but his wife freaked out when she found out we were in contact and

that put the kibbosh on it.

>

> Has anyone here gone back to their home town (or mothers family) and sat down

for a chat about what their impressions were of your childhood?

>

> I had a close friend of mine over for dinner last night and even though we

have been close since I was 3, we have never really talked about my mother. I

was telling her about this website, and explaining to her what mum was like

behind closed doors. She said she knew as a kid that mum was a bit " funny " , but

said that mum was nothing but lovely to her. I told her that the main reason I

loved having her over to stay was that mum was nice to all of us while other

kids were around - we got a holiday of sorts from the craziness when friends

were over. She knows that mum is nuts. she has heard enough of the general stuff

over the years, so she believes me when I tell her it was worse than she ever

knew.

>

> Her parents are probably the only people that have ever had a long term

" friendship " with my mother. I say that loosely, as I think it was more of a

case of them putting up with her (they are the loveliest patient people in the

world!). I would never tell my friend that mum used to say horrid things about

her and her parents. I dont think that is necessary!!

>

> My friend said her parents always knew there was something wrong with mum, but

when she visits them later this week, she is going to have a chat to them and

see how much they really figured out over the years. Id find it fascinating to

know the viewpoint of other people, and cant wait to hear what they have to say.

>

> Has anyone else had a frank discussion with friends parents/relatives etc,

about what they really thought was going on when we were living in hell as kids?

I simply want to talk to people out of curiosity - I find it fascinating!!! But

only people who REALLY knew mum, not flying monkeys or aquaintences. I dont give

a crap what they thought..

>

[Guest guest]

I ve spoken to people who were adults when I was a child, after I was

grown. I ve heard such comments as " We were really worried about you "

, " We don t know how you made it. " " How did you hold up "

I used to just nod and say well thank you. Now, I say, my

Therapist says another 10 years and my homicidal urges may start to

fade.

It was nothing.

I m in a support group for grandchildren of Auschwitz survivors.

Yes, you were right! She was crazy as hell. And despite your concerns,

you left a child to grow up in her home?

Or, remember when I used to show up on your front porch asleep when you

got up for work in the morning, never took a hint from that?

And yet knowing it was not right, you left me there! You never grew the

balls to voice your concerns to child welfare, the cops, a psychiatrist,

her church, anyone? Or was it just juicy gossip? Whatever it was for

you, it was growing up in hell for me, and yes, no shit , I am STILL in

therapy.

So, how did YOUR life turn out.

And if I m feeling particularly vicious, I ll be specific about things

they suspected, or about the things for which I m in therapy.

I do not let them off the hook. Commiserating now when you did nothing

then does NOT make it alright.

Doug

[Guest guest]

Oh dude, that makes me REALLY angry! Screw em!! Turning your back on a child

is the kind of thing that gets you sent straight to hell, if you want my

opinion.

Was your mom a single mom? My T tells me that I survived as in tact as I

did, because despite his codependence, my dad was actually a really good

parent and loved me very much.He was definitly imperfect - but loving. I'm

trying to just embrace that and keep it and throw away the rest. But I think

most of us didn't have a good enough parent in the home. . . even if it was

an ornery old cowboy, love is what makes the difference, right?

>

>

> I ve spoken to people who were adults when I was a child, after I was

> grown. I ve heard such comments as " We were really worried about you "

> , " We don t know how you made it. " " How did you hold up "

>

> I used to just nod and say well thank you. Now, I say, my

> Therapist says another 10 years and my homicidal urges may start to

> fade.

> It was nothing.

> I m in a support group for grandchildren of Auschwitz survivors.

> Yes, you were right! She was crazy as hell. And despite your concerns,

> you left a child to grow up in her home?

> Or, remember when I used to show up on your front porch asleep when you

> got up for work in the morning, never took a hint from that?

>

> And yet knowing it was not right, you left me there! You never grew the

> balls to voice your concerns to child welfare, the cops, a psychiatrist,

> her church, anyone? Or was it just juicy gossip? Whatever it was for

> you, it was growing up in hell for me, and yes, no shit , I am STILL in

> therapy.

>

> So, how did YOUR life turn out.

>

> And if I m feeling particularly vicious, I ll be specific about things

> they suspected, or about the things for which I m in therapy.

>

> I do not let them off the hook. Commiserating now when you did nothing

> then does NOT make it alright.

>

> Doug

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Annie,

Did nt read your answer before posting my own, but yes. At least with

nada, as F up as she was, one can say , to some extent, she was mentally

ill. Whether she could help herself or not, choose healing or not,

there is an excuse for her behaviours.

Sane, concerned, adults who lacked the moral fiber to do the hard thing

and protect us, deserve only our contempt.

From our perspective back then, we KNOW nada is nuts, and expect nutty

behaviour from her. But we expect that the sane relatives and friends we

know might do something, anything, to ease our suffering. And it is a

hope shattered over and over, till finally , most of us, KO s, give up

hope. And say this is it. This is my life. This is how it is.

Until one day, as Adults, we read SWOE, and a whole world opens up to

us.

Doug

[Guest guest]

And may I add - may we all heal.

Amen, Doug.

On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 9:26 AM, Girlscout Cowboy <

girlscout.cowboy@...> wrote:

> Oh dude, that makes me REALLY angry! Screw em!! Turning your back on a

> child is the kind of thing that gets you sent straight to hell, if you want

> my opinion.

>

> Was your mom a single mom? My T tells me that I survived as in tact as I

> did, because despite his codependence, my dad was actually a really good

> parent and loved me very much.He was definitly imperfect - but loving. I'm

> trying to just embrace that and keep it and throw away the rest. But I think

> most of us didn't have a good enough parent in the home. . . even if it was

> an ornery old cowboy, love is what makes the difference, right?

>

>

>

>>

>>

>> I ve spoken to people who were adults when I was a child, after I was

>> grown. I ve heard such comments as " We were really worried about you "

>> , " We don t know how you made it. " " How did you hold up "

>>

>> I used to just nod and say well thank you. Now, I say, my

>> Therapist says another 10 years and my homicidal urges may start to

>> fade.

>> It was nothing.

>> I m in a support group for grandchildren of Auschwitz survivors.

>> Yes, you were right! She was crazy as hell. And despite your concerns,

>> you left a child to grow up in her home?

>> Or, remember when I used to show up on your front porch asleep when you

>> got up for work in the morning, never took a hint from that?

>>

>> And yet knowing it was not right, you left me there! You never grew the

>> balls to voice your concerns to child welfare, the cops, a psychiatrist,

>> her church, anyone? Or was it just juicy gossip? Whatever it was for

>> you, it was growing up in hell for me, and yes, no shit , I am STILL in

>> therapy.

>>

>> So, how did YOUR life turn out.

>>

>> And if I m feeling particularly vicious, I ll be specific about things

>> they suspected, or about the things for which I m in therapy.

>>

>> I do not let them off the hook. Commiserating now when you did nothing

>> then does NOT make it alright.

>>

>> Doug

>>

>>

>>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Somehow that seems like the bigger crime to me; just watching as the gang of

bullies rapes a little girl, just stepping over the little neighbor child

sleeping on your doorstep, just closing the window so the screams of the child

being battered next door aren't so loud.

-Annie

>

> I ve spoken to people who were adults when I was a child, after I was

> grown. I ve heard such comments as " We were really worried about you "

> , " We don t know how you made it. " " How did you hold up "

>

> I used to just nod and say well thank you. Now, I say, my

> Therapist says another 10 years and my homicidal urges may start to

> fade.

> It was nothing.

> I m in a support group for grandchildren of Auschwitz survivors.

> Yes, you were right! She was crazy as hell. And despite your concerns,

> you left a child to grow up in her home?

> Or, remember when I used to show up on your front porch asleep when you

> got up for work in the morning, never took a hint from that?

>

> And yet knowing it was not right, you left me there! You never grew the

> balls to voice your concerns to child welfare, the cops, a psychiatrist,

> her church, anyone? Or was it just juicy gossip? Whatever it was for

> you, it was growing up in hell for me, and yes, no shit , I am STILL in

> therapy.

>

> So, how did YOUR life turn out.

>

> And if I m feeling particularly vicious, I ll be specific about things

> they suspected, or about the things for which I m in therapy.

>

> I do not let them off the hook. Commiserating now when you did nothing

> then does NOT make it alright.

>

> Doug

>

[Guest guest]

Yep. Since I will never have true justice for what was done to me, it makes me

want to do SOMEthing positive in the area of children's rights. Nobody rescued

me, but maybe I can make a difference in some positive way, for some child who

is being emotionally, physically or sexually abused by mentally ill parent(s).

-Annie

>

> Annie,

>

> Did nt read your answer before posting my own, but yes. At least with

> nada, as F up as she was, one can say , to some extent, she was mentally

> ill. Whether she could help herself or not, choose healing or not,

> there is an excuse for her behaviours.

>

> Sane, concerned, adults who lacked the moral fiber to do the hard thing

> and protect us, deserve only our contempt.

>

> From our perspective back then, we KNOW nada is nuts, and expect nutty

> behaviour from her. But we expect that the sane relatives and friends we

> know might do something, anything, to ease our suffering. And it is a

> hope shattered over and over, till finally , most of us, KO s, give up

> hope. And say this is it. This is my life. This is how it is.

>

> Until one day, as Adults, we read SWOE, and a whole world opens up to

> us.

>

> Doug

>

[Guest guest]

YES! " Commiserating now when you did nothing then does NOT make it alright " .

Oh,I so agree...People seem to think when they commiserate like this that

they are being big hearted and good and giving--when what they are actually

doing is offering an apologia for their bystander apathy--which cannot be

rectified or undone with pats on the victim's back.

This sort of commiseration,I think,is also a form of ego stroking on

the part of the erstwhile " sympathizer " --almost more of a plea for reassurance

from the *victim*: Oh tell me it turned out ok after all although I did nothing

so I won't have to feel bad about *me*--shore up *my* ego please by accepting my

regrets...

So I think it's understandable that a KO's reaction is to want to

TASER that commiserator's ego and to let them know:

Guess what.It's not ok.I'm not ok.It's not all as easy as saying " I'm

sorry " to me.Words are cheap.You failed me in your actions and mere words aren't

going to make that go away now.

Here: let me taser you with a jolt of *my* reality.That I have to live

with 24/7.

Letting them off the hook enables denial and perpetuates it--I say,if

you have the chance,fire up that taser,aim it,and fire.Even if only for the sake

of acknowledging your own pain and knowing that you have stood up for your own

reality.

Doug,have you ever read Rudolf Vrba's book " I Cannot Forgive " ? He was

one of the few who escaped from Auschwitz and lived.He wanted to alert the free

world to what was being done--and what happened afterward is a very sorry tale

of ostriches burying their heads in the sand and claiming to be very sorry about

it after the fact.He never compromised later in his stance of not forgiving the

ostriches--was vilified for this and fairly ignored by history and the

media--but died a decent and righteous man who knew he had risked his own life

*trying* to make the truth known and to have the crime that was being committed

adressed and punished.I think it's an inspirational book for KOs who struggle

with the facile apologies of apathetic bystanders.I first read it when I was 14

and Rudi's example of moral courage against horrifying odds has stayed with me

because he never relented in his stance of righteous accuser and was a bigger

person for it than his detractors.

>

> I ve spoken to people who were adults when I was a child, after I was

> grown. I ve heard such comments as " We were really worried about you "

> , " We don t know how you made it. " " How did you hold up "

>

> I used to just nod and say well thank you. Now, I say, my

> Therapist says another 10 years and my homicidal urges may start to

> fade.

> It was nothing.

> I m in a support group for grandchildren of Auschwitz survivors.

> Yes, you were right! She was crazy as hell. And despite your concerns,

> you left a child to grow up in her home?

> Or, remember when I used to show up on your front porch asleep when you

> got up for work in the morning, never took a hint from that?

>

> And yet knowing it was not right, you left me there! You never grew the

> balls to voice your concerns to child welfare, the cops, a psychiatrist,

> her church, anyone? Or was it just juicy gossip? Whatever it was for

> you, it was growing up in hell for me, and yes, no shit , I am STILL in

> therapy.

>

> So, how did YOUR life turn out.

>

> And if I m feeling particularly vicious, I ll be specific about things

> they suspected, or about the things for which I m in therapy.

>

> I do not let them off the hook. Commiserating now when you did nothing

> then does NOT make it alright.

>

> Doug

>

[Guest guest]

Was Mom and Dad till I was 14, then just Mom. My T once told me the

surprising thing is your not more F ed up than you are!

Would have loved to have a ornery old cowboy around.

Damn

Doug

>

> Oh dude, that makes me REALLY angry! Screw em!! Turning your back on a

child

> is the kind of thing that gets you sent straight to hell, if you want

my

> opinion.

>

> Was your mom a single mom? My T tells me that I survived as in tact as

I

> did, because despite his codependence, my dad was actually a really

good

> parent and loved me very much.He was definitly imperfect - but loving.

I'm

> trying to just embrace that and keep it and throw away the rest. But I

think

> most of us didn't have a good enough parent in the home. . . even if

it was

> an ornery old cowboy, love is what makes the difference, right?

[Guest guest]

I'll be your cowboy, Doug!!!!!

Err, cowgirl might be more realistic.

>

>

> Was Mom and Dad till I was 14, then just Mom. My T once told me the

> surprising thing is your not more F ed up than you are!

>

> Would have loved to have a ornery old cowboy around.

>

> Damn

>

> Doug

>

>

> >

> > Oh dude, that makes me REALLY angry! Screw em!! Turning your back on a

> child

> > is the kind of thing that gets you sent straight to hell, if you want

> my

> > opinion.

> >

> > Was your mom a single mom? My T tells me that I survived as in tact as

> I

> > did, because despite his codependence, my dad was actually a really

> good

> > parent and loved me very much.He was definitly imperfect - but loving.

> I'm

> > trying to just embrace that and keep it and throw away the rest. But I

> think

> > most of us didn't have a good enough parent in the home. . . even if

> it was

> > an ornery old cowboy, love is what makes the difference, right?

>

>

>