Guest guest Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 I am more and more amazed at how I, up until now, seemed to attract--or be drawn to--people that eventually became enmeshed with me, or wanted to be. I mean emotionally fused to the point that they would become upset if I pulled away and I would become jealous as well if they were friendly with others. sick!!! At the company I used to work at, I was in the same department for 10 years. There were only 3 of us in the department. I didn’t realize it at the time, but we were enmeshed. I remember feeling funny, like “there’s something wrong with this situation.†But I definitely knew I wasn’t being authentic, I was pretending to like certain things and would do activities that I had no interest in, all to be part of the gang. When I look back on it now, I think of what a waste those 10 years were. It saddens me that I diminished myself because of this unhealthy pattern in myself. And hate to say it without sounding like a blamer, but I do blame my parents. They were both very much of the don’t rock the boat/make others happy/what will the neighbors say variety. And it really affected my personality. When I left that company, I felt so free. I felt like a new person. Now, I’ve been in my present company for five years. I’m definitely much more aware of myself, therapy has helped. But when I started here, I found myself working alongside someone who I had to see and talk to every day. I’ll call her Jane. She is a complainer, fearful, anxious. Reminded me so much of my mother, which was dreadful. Well, Jane and I grew closer, because of my sick relational pattern (and hers) and because my father had been diagnosed with lung cancer. She was very nice about it and would check in to see how he was doing and how I was (now I think it was just her way of latching onto me), so I readily accepted her friendship. After 3 years of therapy and taking inventory of myself and my patterns, I began to scale back my contact with my mother AND with Jane as much as possible. As I said, she complains always. There is not a conversation with her that does not include a complaint, a grievance shared, or mean gossip about people she feels have wronged her. For the most part, I just ignore her and say something " oh? that's too bad. " I limit my contribution to the point that the conversation just dies. So yesterday, she began kvetching about a woman in our dept who she claimed slammed a door in her face (that is, she walked through a door and didn’t hold it open for her). Before she even started her story, I said, “oh you mean Sally?? I LIKE Sally.†That was my way of saying, stop. Don’t continue this story. But she went on, with great venom, to say what a b***ch Sally is. I said, “I really can’t imagine Sally would do that.†Jane freaked out and said, “don’t you think it was mean of Sally to do that??†I said, “I wasn’t there, Jane.†Like my mother, you cannot disagree with Jane. She practically spit at me when she said, “I am so glad so and so was there with me. SHE knows I’m not lying.†After that, there was no talking to her. We ended our conversation with her saying, “I hope YOU don’t get a door slammed in YOUR face today.†It was so unpleasant, the force she spat her words out with, it was startling. And then she can’t imagine why no one — NO ONE – will befriend her in our department. I saw her later in the day and she fake-smiled/immediately scowled at me. She really is a child. My question is: WWWHHHHYYY, knowing my patterns and my family history with this kind of lunacy, do I have the desire to approach Jane and clarify things?? Why is this bugging me so much? I don’t want to give her dirty looks, I don’t want to pretend I don’t see her. I just want to not have her behavior matter to me. Sigh. Any insights out there from fellow recovering enmeshed ones? Thanks, Fiona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Me personally, its been hard to find that normal, mentally healthy, middle road in life, in relationships with other people. I think its due to the black-and-white-thinking flea that I absorbed from my nada. But now that I know that I tend to do that, I can get a little emotional distance and try to work on it. If Jane your co-worker genuinely feels that you called her a liar and that hurt her feelings, then, I think its OK to apologize to her. Your intention wasn't to insult her, you just couldn't believe that the third party, the other co-worker, would deliberately slam a door in Jane's face. But Jane *interpreted* that as you calling her a liar (probably due to her warped pd cognitive processing.) Unfortunately with pd people, even if you do apologize she will probably remain hostile and resentful and perhaps even feel entitled to retaliate against you. But at least you would have done the right thing and apologized for inadvertently hurting her feelings. RE the big question of WHY is it that we keep going back for more abuse, why do we keep trying over and over to normalize those with pd that are in our lives, why do we even feel attracted to and befriend and even marry those with the identical personality disorders our parents have ... good question. I've heard two theories. One is that during our most impressionable, malleable, formative years, we become imprinted on our parents' behaviors as " normal. " The truth is that these behaviors aren't normal at all, they're just our reality and they become familiar to us. Our parents define for us what loving behaviors look like and feel like. So when we hit puberty and encounter the very familiar traits and characteristics that were modeled to us as " normal " , our subconscious (and newly-awakening hormones) equate these " normal " , familiar traits as *appropriate and attractive.* So our subconscious is saying something like, " Wow, he's cute, and he's cold and rejecting just like my mother / helpless and needy just like my mother / angry and dramatic just like my father! I think I'm in love! " The other theory is that we find those with pds (like our parents) attractive or engaging because we feel compelled to keep trying to make the relationship with our parents work out, even if its by proxy. We keep working at it trying to make the outcome positive this time: we're trying to make our parents love us and approve of us, just using a substitute instead of the real thing. -Annie > > I am more and more amazed at how I, up until now, seemed to attract--or be drawn to--people that eventually became enmeshed with me, or wanted to be. I mean emotionally fused to the point that they would become upset if I pulled away and I would become jealous as well if they were friendly with others. sick!!! > > At the company I used to work at, I was in the same department for 10 years. There were only 3 of us in the department. I didn’t realize it at the time, but we were enmeshed. I remember feeling funny, like “there’s something wrong with this situation.†But I definitely knew I wasn’t being authentic, I was pretending to like certain things and would do activities that I had no interest in, all to be part of the gang. When I look back on it now, I think of what a waste those 10 years were. It saddens me that I diminished myself because of this unhealthy pattern in myself. And hate to say it without sounding like a blamer, but I do blame my parents. They were both very much of the don’t rock the boat/make others happy/what will the neighbors say variety. And it really affected my personality. When I left that company, I felt so free. I felt like a new person. > > Now, I’ve been in my present company for five years. I’m definitely much more aware of myself, therapy has helped. But when I started here, I found myself working alongside someone who I had to see and talk to every day. I’ll call her Jane. She is a complainer, fearful, anxious. Reminded me so much of my mother, which was dreadful. Well, Jane and I grew closer, because of my sick relational pattern (and hers) and because my father had been diagnosed with lung cancer. She was very nice about it and would check in to see how he was doing and how I was (now I think it was just her way of latching onto me), so I readily accepted her friendship. > > After 3 years of therapy and taking inventory of myself and my patterns, I began to scale back my contact with my mother AND with Jane as much as possible. As I said, she complains always. There is not a conversation with her that does not include a complaint, a grievance shared, or mean gossip about people she feels have wronged her. For the most part, I just ignore her and say something " oh? that's too bad. " I limit my contribution to the point that the conversation just dies. > > So yesterday, she began kvetching about a woman in our dept who she claimed slammed a door in her face (that is, she walked through a door and didn’t hold it open for her). Before she even started her story, I said, “oh you mean Sally?? I LIKE Sally.†That was my way of saying, stop. Don’t continue this story. But she went on, with great venom, to say what a b***ch Sally is. I said, “I really can’t imagine Sally would do that.†Jane freaked out and said, “don’t you think it was mean of Sally to do that??†I said, “I wasn’t there, Jane.†> > Like my mother, you cannot disagree with Jane. She practically spit at me when she said, “I am so glad so and so was there with me. SHE knows I’m not lying.†After that, there was no talking to her. We ended our conversation with her saying, “I hope YOU don’t get a door slammed in YOUR face today.†It was so unpleasant, the force she spat her words out with, it was startling. And then she can’t imagine why no one †" NO ONE †" will befriend her in our department. > > I saw her later in the day and she fake-smiled/immediately scowled at me. She really is a child. > > My question is: WWWHHHHYYY, knowing my patterns and my family history with this kind of lunacy, do I have the desire to approach Jane and clarify things?? Why is this bugging me so much? I don’t want to give her dirty looks, I don’t want to pretend I don’t see her. I just want to not have her behavior matter to me. Sigh. Any insights out there from fellow recovering enmeshed ones? > > Thanks, > > Fiona > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Hi Fiona, to me it seems like relating to someone who has the patterns of people in my FOO is like dancing with someone who knows the same dance. It's so familiar, I know exactly what to do, they do exactly what I expect. It's comfortable, easy, even a confidence booster,...until it becomes very very unpleasant. I tend to get involved with people like Jane too - if anything I know how to play the sympathetic " ain't it awful " friend to a complainer. Sad to say if I don't watch myself I become the complainer myself - that's how my family communicated and bonded as I grew up. So sounds like you were doing the complainer/validater dance with Jane and decided to miss you cue! No validating, horrors! I guess at this point it's up to you to decide how much of the relationship (if any) you want to keep. It's not really about whether the door got slammed by Sally - maybe it did - but you just don't want to be part of bad-mouthing your coworkers anymore...don't know if she could understand that though. > > I am more and more amazed at how I, up until now, seemed to attract--or be drawn to--people that eventually became enmeshed with me, or wanted to be. I mean emotionally fused to the point that they would become upset if I pulled away and I would become jealous as well if they were friendly with others. sick!!! > > At the company I used to work at, I was in the same department for 10 years. There were only 3 of us in the department. I didn’t realize it at the time, but we were enmeshed. I remember feeling funny, like “there’s something wrong with this situation.†But I definitely knew I wasn’t being authentic, I was pretending to like certain things and would do activities that I had no interest in, all to be part of the gang. When I look back on it now, I think of what a waste those 10 years were. It saddens me that I diminished myself because of this unhealthy pattern in myself. And hate to say it without sounding like a blamer, but I do blame my parents. They were both very much of the don’t rock the boat/make others happy/what will the neighbors say variety. And it really affected my personality. When I left that company, I felt so free. I felt like a new person. > > Now, I’ve been in my present company for five years. I’m definitely much more aware of myself, therapy has helped. But when I started here, I found myself working alongside someone who I had to see and talk to every day. I’ll call her Jane. She is a complainer, fearful, anxious. Reminded me so much of my mother, which was dreadful. Well, Jane and I grew closer, because of my sick relational pattern (and hers) and because my father had been diagnosed with lung cancer. She was very nice about it and would check in to see how he was doing and how I was (now I think it was just her way of latching onto me), so I readily accepted her friendship. > > After 3 years of therapy and taking inventory of myself and my patterns, I began to scale back my contact with my mother AND with Jane as much as possible. As I said, she complains always. There is not a conversation with her that does not include a complaint, a grievance shared, or mean gossip about people she feels have wronged her. For the most part, I just ignore her and say something " oh? that's too bad. " I limit my contribution to the point that the conversation just dies. > > So yesterday, she began kvetching about a woman in our dept who she claimed slammed a door in her face (that is, she walked through a door and didn’t hold it open for her). Before she even started her story, I said, “oh you mean Sally?? I LIKE Sally.†That was my way of saying, stop. Don’t continue this story. But she went on, with great venom, to say what a b***ch Sally is. I said, “I really can’t imagine Sally would do that.†Jane freaked out and said, “don’t you think it was mean of Sally to do that??†I said, “I wasn’t there, Jane.†> > Like my mother, you cannot disagree with Jane. She practically spit at me when she said, “I am so glad so and so was there with me. SHE knows I’m not lying.†After that, there was no talking to her. We ended our conversation with her saying, “I hope YOU don’t get a door slammed in YOUR face today.†It was so unpleasant, the force she spat her words out with, it was startling. And then she can’t imagine why no one †" NO ONE †" will befriend her in our department. > > I saw her later in the day and she fake-smiled/immediately scowled at me. She really is a child. > > My question is: WWWHHHHYYY, knowing my patterns and my family history with this kind of lunacy, do I have the desire to approach Jane and clarify things?? Why is this bugging me so much? I don’t want to give her dirty looks, I don’t want to pretend I don’t see her. I just want to not have her behavior matter to me. Sigh. Any insights out there from fellow recovering enmeshed ones? > > Thanks, > > Fiona > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Well, Fi, You know where you are. You see the STUFF happening. Now, what do you do about it? Are you up for some hard work? Some painful insights, peeling off of scabs? Try the book How People Grow, By Drs Henry Cloud and Townsend. Girl, it aint easy. We spent a lifetime learning how to get this way. But we can change. We can grow. We can heal. And you all know my aegis statement for us all: May we ALL heal. Doug > > I am more and more amazed at how I, up until now, seemed to attract--or be drawn to--people that eventually became enmeshed with me, or wanted to be. I mean emotionally fused to the point that they would become upset if I pulled away and I would become jealous as well if they were friendly with others. sick!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2010 Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 I've been wanting to read Mom Factor. I'll have to pick it up. > > > > I am more and more amazed at how I, up until now, seemed to attract--or be drawn to--people that eventually became enmeshed with me, or wanted to be. I mean emotionally fused to the point that they would become upset if I pulled away and I would become jealous as well if they were friendly with others. sick!!! > > > > At the company I used to work at, I was in the same department for 10 years. There were only 3 of us in the department. I didn’t realize it at the time, but we were enmeshed. I remember feeling funny, like  " there’s something wrong with this situation.� But I definitely knew I wasn’t being authentic, I was pretending to like certain things and would do activities that I had no interest in, all to be part of the gang. When I look back on it now, I think of what a waste those 10 years were. It saddens me that I diminished myself because of this unhealthy pattern in myself. And hate to say it without sounding like a blamer, but I do blame my parents. They were both very much of the don’t rock the boat/make others happy/what will the neighbors say variety. And it really affected my personality. When I left that company, I felt so free. I felt like a new person. > > > > Now, I’ve been in my present company for five years. I’m definitely much more aware of myself, therapy has helped. But when I started here, I found myself working alongside someone who I had to see and talk to every day. I’ll call her Jane. She is a complainer, fearful, anxious. Reminded me so much of my mother, which was dreadful. Well, Jane and I grew closer, because of my sick relational pattern (and hers) and because my father had been diagnosed with lung cancer. She was very nice about it and would check in to see how he was doing and how I was (now I think it was just her way of latching onto me), so I readily accepted her friendship. > > > > After 3 years of therapy and taking inventory of myself and my patterns, I began to scale back my contact with my mother AND with Jane as much as possible. As I said, she complains always. There is not a conversation with her that does not include a complaint, a grievance shared, or mean gossip about people she feels have wronged her. For the most part, I just ignore her and say something " oh? that's too bad. " I limit my contribution to the point that the conversation just dies. > > > > So yesterday, she began kvetching about a woman in our dept who she claimed slammed a door in her face (that is, she walked through a door and didn’t hold it open for her). Before she even started her story, I said,  " oh you mean Sally?? I LIKE Sally.� That was my way of saying, stop. Don’t continue this story. But she went on, with great venom, to say what a b***ch Sally is. I said,  " I really can’t imagine Sally would do that.� Jane freaked out and said,  " don’t you think it was mean of Sally to do that??� I said,  " I wasn’t there, Jane.� > > > > Like my mother, you cannot disagree with Jane. She practically spit at me when she said,  " I am so glad so and so was there with me. SHE knows I’m not lying.� After that, there was no talking to her. We ended our conversation with her saying,  " I hope YOU don’t get a door slammed in YOUR face today.� It was so unpleasant, the force she spat her words out with, it was startling. And then she can’t imagine why no one †" NO ONE †" will befriend her in our department. > > > > I saw her later in the day and she fake-smiled/immediately scowled at me. She really is a child. > > > > My question is: WWWHHHHYYY, knowing my patterns and my family history with this kind of lunacy, do I have the desire to approach Jane and clarify things?? Why is this bugging me so much? I don’t want to give her dirty looks, I don’t want to pretend I don’t see her. I just want to not have her behavior matter to me. Sigh. Any insights out there from fellow recovering enmeshed ones? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Fiona > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2010 Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 - you nailed it. I decided to miss my cue and Jane got furious. And you described it so perfectly: that's exactly our relationship --she complains, I tut-tut and validate her (oh, Jane, I'm sure it's not all that bad blah blah). I would like to cease the relationship but we work together; there's the challenge. As Annie suggested, I would apologize to her for the misunderstanding, but she'll just gain more steam that way. I don't know how I'll proceed. It's assumed between us that we go down for coffee every morning. When I've tried to pull away from it, by making up excuses, she gets weird... " I missed you; are you getting coffee next week?? " It's creepy. I think Sally slammed the door in her face on purpose. Jane's not well-liked here at all. I mean, it's gotten ugly at times. thank you all for your insights; it's true, some part of me felt like relating to her was " normal " and " comfortable. " Now I know better! I can spot them a mile away lately and STEER AWAY. Now, what to do with Jane???? > > > > I am more and more amazed at how I, up until now, seemed to attract--or be drawn to--people that eventually became enmeshed with me, or wanted to be. I mean emotionally fused to the point that they would become upset if I pulled away and I would become jealous as well if they were friendly with others. sick!!! > > > > At the company I used to work at, I was in the same department for 10 years. There were only 3 of us in the department. I didn’t realize it at the time, but we were enmeshed. I remember feeling funny, like “there’s something wrong with this situation.†But I definitely knew I wasn’t being authentic, I was pretending to like certain things and would do activities that I had no interest in, all to be part of the gang. When I look back on it now, I think of what a waste those 10 years were. It saddens me that I diminished myself because of this unhealthy pattern in myself. And hate to say it without sounding like a blamer, but I do blame my parents. They were both very much of the don’t rock the boat/make others happy/what will the neighbors say variety. And it really affected my personality. When I left that company, I felt so free. I felt like a new person. > > > > Now, I’ve been in my present company for five years. I’m definitely much more aware of myself, therapy has helped. But when I started here, I found myself working alongside someone who I had to see and talk to every day. I’ll call her Jane. She is a complainer, fearful, anxious. Reminded me so much of my mother, which was dreadful. Well, Jane and I grew closer, because of my sick relational pattern (and hers) and because my father had been diagnosed with lung cancer. She was very nice about it and would check in to see how he was doing and how I was (now I think it was just her way of latching onto me), so I readily accepted her friendship. > > > > After 3 years of therapy and taking inventory of myself and my patterns, I began to scale back my contact with my mother AND with Jane as much as possible. As I said, she complains always. There is not a conversation with her that does not include a complaint, a grievance shared, or mean gossip about people she feels have wronged her. For the most part, I just ignore her and say something " oh? that's too bad. " I limit my contribution to the point that the conversation just dies. > > > > So yesterday, she began kvetching about a woman in our dept who she claimed slammed a door in her face (that is, she walked through a door and didn’t hold it open for her). Before she even started her story, I said, “oh you mean Sally?? I LIKE Sally.†That was my way of saying, stop. Don’t continue this story. But she went on, with great venom, to say what a b***ch Sally is. I said, “I really can’t imagine Sally would do that.†Jane freaked out and said, “don’t you think it was mean of Sally to do that??†I said, “I wasn’t there, Jane.†> > > > Like my mother, you cannot disagree with Jane. She practically spit at me when she said, “I am so glad so and so was there with me. SHE knows I’m not lying.†After that, there was no talking to her. We ended our conversation with her saying, “I hope YOU don’t get a door slammed in YOUR face today.†It was so unpleasant, the force she spat her words out with, it was startling. And then she can’t imagine why no one †" NO ONE †" will befriend her in our department. > > > > I saw her later in the day and she fake-smiled/immediately scowled at me. She really is a child. > > > > My question is: WWWHHHHYYY, knowing my patterns and my family history with this kind of lunacy, do I have the desire to approach Jane and clarify things?? Why is this bugging me so much? I don’t want to give her dirty looks, I don’t want to pretend I don’t see her. I just want to not have her behavior matter to me. Sigh. Any insights out there from fellow recovering enmeshed ones? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Fiona > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2010 Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 Laurie - YUP! sounds very familiar to me. Too familiar. > > > > I am more and more amazed at how I, up until now, seemed to attract--or > be drawn to--people that eventually became enmeshed with me, or wanted to > be. I mean emotionally fused to the point that they would become upset if I > pulled away and I would become jealous as well if they were friendly with > others. sick!!! > > > > At the company I used to work at, I was in the same department for 10 > years. There were only 3 of us in the department. I didn’t realize it at > the time, but we were enmeshed. I remember feeling funny, like  " there’s > something wrong with this situation.†But I definitely knew I wasn’t > being authentic, I was pretending to like certain things and would do > activities that I had no interest in, all to be part of the gang. When I look > back on it now, I think of what a waste those 10 years were. It saddens me > that I diminished myself because of this unhealthy pattern in myself. And > hate to say it without sounding like a blamer, but I do blame my parents. They > were both very much of the don’t rock the boat/make others happy/what > will the neighbors say variety. And it really affected my personality. When > I left that company, I felt so free. I felt like a new person. > > > > Now, I’ve been in my present company for five years. I’m > definitely much more aware of myself, therapy has helped. But when I started here, I > found myself working alongside someone who I had to see and talk to every > day. I’ll call her Jane. She is a complainer, fearful, anxious. Reminded > me so much of my mother, which was dreadful. Well, Jane and I grew closer, > because of my sick relational pattern (and hers) and because my father had > been diagnosed with lung cancer. She was very nice about it and would > check in to see how he was doing and how I was (now I think it was just her way > of latching onto me), so I readily accepted her friendship. > > > > After 3 years of therapy and taking inventory of myself and my patterns, > I began to scale back my contact with my mother AND with Jane as much as > possible. As I said, she complains always. There is not a conversation with > her that does not include a complaint, a grievance shared, or mean gossip > about people she feels have wronged her. For the most part, I just ignore > her and say something " oh? that's too bad. " I limit my contribution to the > point that the conversation just dies. > > > > So yesterday, she began kvetching about a woman in our dept who she > claimed slammed a door in her face (that is, she walked through a door and didnâ > €™t hold it open for her). Before she even started her story, I said,  " > oh you mean Sally?? I LIKE Sally.†That was my way of saying, stop. Donâ > €™t continue this story. But she went on, with great venom, to say what a > b***ch Sally is. I said,  " I really can’t imagine Sally would do that.†>  Jane freaked out and said,  " don’t you think it was mean of Sally > to do that??†I said,  " I wasn’t there, Jane.†> > > > Like my mother, you cannot disagree with Jane. She practically spit at > me when she said,  " I am so glad so and so was there with me. SHE knows Iâ > €™m not lying.†After that, there was no talking to her. We ended our > conversation with her saying,  " I hope YOU don’t get a door slammed in > YOUR face today.†It was so unpleasant, the force she spat her words out > with, it was startling. And then she can’t imagine why no one †" NO ONE â > € " will befriend her in our department. > > > > I saw her later in the day and she fake-smiled/immediately scowled at > me. She really is a child. > > > > My question is: WWWHHHHYYY, knowing my patterns and my family history > with this kind of lunacy, do I have the desire to approach Jane and clarify > things?? Why is this bugging me so much? I don’t want to give her dirty > looks, I don’t want to pretend I don’t see her. I just want to not have > her behavior matter to me. Sigh. Any insights out there from fellow > recovering enmeshed ones? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Fiona > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2010 Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 << Are you up for some hard work? Some painful insights, peeling off of scabs?>> you know, I think I AM up for it. I've been catching myself saying NO more lately, telling my brother " no, that doesn't work for me " instead of walking on eggshells to explain myself. I admire Cloud/Townsend a lot; am reading Changes That Heal. I tried reading How We Grow last year, but decided I wasn't ready for it yet. I'll give it another go. > > > > I am more and more amazed at how I, up until now, seemed to > attract--or be drawn to--people that eventually became enmeshed with me, > or wanted to be. I mean emotionally fused to the point that they would > become upset if I pulled away and I would become jealous as well if they > were friendly with others. sick!!! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2010 Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 O. M. G. Jane sounds E-X-A-C-T-L-Y like my nada. Maybe she's BP. No kidding, this is just what being around her is like and how I felt ALL THE TIME. --. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2010 Report Share Posted October 8, 2010 Fiona, here's an idea...don't know how practical it is but I'll throw it out there. You could tell Jane that you noticed she seemed upset after your discussion about Sally. That you wanted her to know it wasn't about her but that *you* were instituting a new policy of not talking about third parties based on self-help book X that you read. In an effort to be more positive and encourage direct communication in the workplace...that this has nothing to do with Jane herself but something you are trying. At that point what's she gonna say - no, I insist on being negative and you must be too! Maybe. But if she's got any of her inner image tied up with being a nice person this might work. She'll probably also find this so unsatisfying that she might not want to get coffee so much. Good luck! > > - you nailed it. > I decided to miss my cue and Jane got furious. > And you described it so perfectly: that's exactly our relationship --she complains, I tut-tut and validate her (oh, Jane, I'm sure it's not all that bad blah blah). > > I would like to cease the relationship but we work together; there's the challenge. > > As Annie suggested, I would apologize to her for the misunderstanding, but she'll just gain more steam that way. I don't know how I'll proceed. It's assumed between us that we go down for coffee every morning. When I've tried to pull away from it, by making up excuses, she gets weird... " I missed you; are you getting coffee next week?? " It's creepy. > > I think Sally slammed the door in her face on purpose. Jane's not well-liked here at all. I mean, it's gotten ugly at times. > > thank you all for your insights; it's true, some part of me felt like relating to her was " normal " and " comfortable. " Now I know better! I can spot them a mile away lately and STEER AWAY. Now, what to do with Jane???? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2010 Report Share Posted October 9, 2010 Fiona,I had a coworker a bit like Jane a couple of years ago.She used my fada's death as a way to latch on to me,calling me at home when I was on bereavement leave *from work in front of other coworkers*,giving me flowers when I returned to work,telling me I could call her if I needed to " talk " --and then getting angry with me and holding a lllloooonnnnggg grudge when I didn't call her to cry on her shoulder about fada.The more I tried to keep it casual and light because I had caught a whiff of dysfunction from her from the beginning,the more cloying she became.I got that too from her,the " Oh,,I missed you! " when we hadn't worked on the same day...We both had a black knit dress and one day she suggested we both wear our knits dresses on a Friday " so we can be twins " .I kid you not.I was like: god,do I have a big red X on my forehead or something,that I attract these types? I think now the thing was,I was too easy going because I was too *used* to putting up with boundary violations from nada.She ended up turning on me and trying to smear me to our other coworkers when I didn't want to be her extra special friend.I later learned that she had done this to a couple of other people and that she was a total narcissist.Her feelings were as fact as deep as the kitchen sink,it turned out.So please remember you have nothing to feel guilty about for wanting to avoid Jane.She sounds potentially toxic. I like 's suggestion that you let her know somehow that your reaction to the door slamming incident was nothing personal.You do that with *everybody*.You would have said the same thing to *anybody*.I suspect that might take the wind out of her sails and bore her,and besides,like said,what is she going to say? Especially to anyone else.It makes you look like the reasonable one. > > > > - you nailed it. > > I decided to miss my cue and Jane got furious. > > And you described it so perfectly: that's exactly our relationship --she complains, I tut-tut and validate her (oh, Jane, I'm sure it's not all that bad blah blah). > > > > I would like to cease the relationship but we work together; there's the challenge. > > > > As Annie suggested, I would apologize to her for the misunderstanding, but she'll just gain more steam that way. I don't know how I'll proceed. It's assumed between us that we go down for coffee every morning. When I've tried to pull away from it, by making up excuses, she gets weird... " I missed you; are you getting coffee next week?? " It's creepy. > > > > I think Sally slammed the door in her face on purpose. Jane's not well-liked here at all. I mean, it's gotten ugly at times. > > > > thank you all for your insights; it's true, some part of me felt like relating to her was " normal " and " comfortable. " Now I know better! I can spot them a mile away lately and STEER AWAY. Now, what to do with Jane???? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2010 Report Share Posted October 9, 2010 I think that's a good idea, & worth a try. I wouldn't bring it up though unless Jane starts in on her old behaviors of wanting to share negative gossip with you. Then mention " the self-help book " that you're following. (I suggest that you choose a real book in case she asks about it and wants to read it... how about SWOE? Lol!) -Annie > > > > - you nailed it. > > I decided to miss my cue and Jane got furious. > > And you described it so perfectly: that's exactly our relationship --she complains, I tut-tut and validate her (oh, Jane, I'm sure it's not all that bad blah blah). > > > > I would like to cease the relationship but we work together; there's the challenge. > > > > As Annie suggested, I would apologize to her for the misunderstanding, but she'll just gain more steam that way. I don't know how I'll proceed. It's assumed between us that we go down for coffee every morning. When I've tried to pull away from it, by making up excuses, she gets weird... " I missed you; are you getting coffee next week?? " It's creepy. > > > > I think Sally slammed the door in her face on purpose. Jane's not well-liked here at all. I mean, it's gotten ugly at times. > > > > thank you all for your insights; it's true, some part of me felt like relating to her was " normal " and " comfortable. " Now I know better! I can spot them a mile away lately and STEER AWAY. Now, what to do with Jane???? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2010 Report Share Posted October 9, 2010 Sounds like your " radar " for detecting personality disorder is working pretty well! I too am suspicious of those who are too friendly too fast, who give presents or do unusual favors for me too early in the relationship, etc. That feels to me like the person is trying to make me feel indebted to him or her in a way that obligates me to respond in kind. Too friendly too fast = red flag, for me. I do much better with slower-building relationships, or I guess I should say, I feel safer with developing a friendship slowly. Good for you for not feeling like you had to go ahead and attend his dinner and be " dessert " when you weren't ready for that. Good for you for listening to your intuition! I hope you don't allow him to pressure you and guilt you into dating him, that's not a good reason to date someone, in fact, its a horrible reason to date someone. From what you describe, he doesn't take " no " for an answer easily and resorts to using FOG (fear-obligation-guilt) to pressure others into complying with his wishes. That's how a guy I dated briefly in college acted. Wouldn't take " no " for an answer, and when I said I didn't want to go out with him anymore he began stalking me. Fortunately my parents wanted to move anyway, so I relocated with them and that's the only thing that made that guy give up. Listen to your gut! -Annie > > Hi > Recently a guy latched on to me and he wanted to see me so hed invite me to do things even though I didn't show a lot of interest. I was trying to find him attractive but something was off. He invited me to his house for a special dinner he was going to cook. I realized he was going to expect something in return and I wasn't attracted so I told him I didn't want to come over a day ahead of time. A couple of days later I got the guilt trip of my life. " He expected more of me. You made me angry. You hurt me " I said sorry twice he said " well that's a start " etc etc. It was similar to what you're describing I think. I wanted to keep it chill. He wanted to turn up the heat and then found himself wounded to the max when I couldn't comply with HIS script. Very imperious for such a meek little guy. > Please excuse any typos or terseness, this message was sent from a mobile device. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 To all my lady friends on here, No, wait that doesnt sound right. You are not ladies, but you are friends. No, wait that doesnt work. Lets try, Hey Gals! ( lol, in a silly mood) The guy who moves way too fast, expects way too much, gets highly offended when you do not meet expectations or standards that he set without your approval or knowledge, should set of bells and red flags all over the place. For any woman, but in particular for KO s , since we were programmed to subsume our own self to that of another, it is a precursor to a controlling or abusive man. The guy who ends up cutting you off from your friends and family, draining your bank account, making you feel as small and unworthy as nada ever did, and perhaps, finally beating you, will not start out that way. He will start out with a charm offensive. Too much to write it all here, but I would urge you to read some and get to know what the abusive man is like, so warning bells go off. You, as a KO woman, are, I would guess, many times more likely than other women to end up in such a relationship. With my Big Brother hat on , Doug > > > > Hi > > Recently a guy latched on to me and he wanted to see me so hed invite me to do things even though I didn't show a lot of interest. I was trying to find him attractive but something was off. He invited me to his house for a special dinner he was going to cook. I realized he was going to expect something in return and I wasn't attracted so I told him I didn't want to come over a day ahead of time. A couple of days later I got the guilt trip of my life. " He expected more of me. You made me angry. You hurt me " I said sorry twice he said " well that's a start " etc etc. It was similar to what you're describing I think. I wanted to keep it chill. He wanted to turn up the heat and then found himself wounded to the max when I couldn't comply with HIS script. Very imperious for such a meek little guy. > > Please excuse any typos or terseness, this message was sent from a mobile device. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Not to be too " enmeshy, " but I really do view you as a big brother, Doug! Your perspective is always right-on. > > > > > > Hi > > > Recently a guy latched on to me and he wanted to see me so hed > invite me to do things even though I didn't show a lot of interest. I > was trying to find him attractive but something was off. He invited me > to his house for a special dinner he was going to cook. I realized he > was going to expect something in return and I wasn't attracted so I told > him I didn't want to come over a day ahead of time. A couple of days > later I got the guilt trip of my life. " He expected more of me. You made > me angry. You hurt me " I said sorry twice he said " well that's a start " > etc etc. It was similar to what you're describing I think. I wanted to > keep it chill. He wanted to turn up the heat and then found himself > wounded to the max when I couldn't comply with HIS script. Very > imperious for such a meek little guy. > > > Please excuse any typos or terseness, this message was sent from a > mobile device. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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