Jump to content
RemedySpot.com

Why enmeshment?

Rate this topic


Guest guest

Recommended Posts

I am more and more amazed at how I, up until now, seemed to attract--or be drawn

to--people that eventually became enmeshed with me, or wanted to be. I mean

emotionally fused to the point that they would become upset if I pulled away and

I would become jealous as well if they were friendly with others. sick!!!

At the company I used to work at, I was in the same department for 10 years.

There were only 3 of us in the department. I didn’t realize it at the time,

but we were enmeshed. I remember feeling funny, like “there’s something

wrong with this situation.†But I definitely knew I wasn’t being authentic,

I was pretending to like certain things and would do activities that I had no

interest in, all to be part of the gang. When I look back on it now, I think of

what a waste those 10 years were. It saddens me that I diminished myself because

of this unhealthy pattern in myself. And hate to say it without sounding like a

blamer, but I do blame my parents. They were both very much of the don’t rock

the boat/make others happy/what will the neighbors say variety. And it really

affected my personality. When I left that company, I felt so free. I felt like a

new person.

Now, I’ve been in my present company for five years. I’m definitely much

more aware of myself, therapy has helped. But when I started here, I found

myself working alongside someone who I had to see and talk to every day. I’ll

call her Jane. She is a complainer, fearful, anxious. Reminded me so much of my

mother, which was dreadful. Well, Jane and I grew closer, because of my sick

relational pattern (and hers) and because my father had been diagnosed with lung

cancer. She was very nice about it and would check in to see how he was doing

and how I was (now I think it was just her way of latching onto me), so I

readily accepted her friendship.

After 3 years of therapy and taking inventory of myself and my patterns, I began

to scale back my contact with my mother AND with Jane as much as possible. As I

said, she complains always. There is not a conversation with her that does not

include a complaint, a grievance shared, or mean gossip about people she feels

have wronged her. For the most part, I just ignore her and say something " oh?

that's too bad. " I limit my contribution to the point that the conversation

just dies.

So yesterday, she began kvetching about a woman in our dept who she claimed

slammed a door in her face (that is, she walked through a door and didn’t hold

it open for her). Before she even started her story, I said, “oh you mean

Sally?? I LIKE Sally.†That was my way of saying, stop. Don’t continue this

story. But she went on, with great venom, to say what a b***ch Sally is. I

said, “I really can’t imagine Sally would do that.†Jane freaked out and

said, “don’t you think it was mean of Sally to do that??†I said, “I

wasn’t there, Jane.â€

Like my mother, you cannot disagree with Jane. She practically spit at me when

she said, “I am so glad so and so was there with me. SHE knows I’m not

lying.†After that, there was no talking to her. We ended our conversation

with her saying, “I hope YOU don’t get a door slammed in YOUR face today.â€

It was so unpleasant, the force she spat her words out with, it was startling.

And then she can’t imagine why no one — NO ONE – will befriend her in our

department.

I saw her later in the day and she fake-smiled/immediately scowled at me. She

really is a child.

My question is: WWWHHHHYYY, knowing my patterns and my family history with this

kind of lunacy, do I have the desire to approach Jane and clarify things?? Why

is this bugging me so much? I don’t want to give her dirty looks, I don’t

want to pretend I don’t see her. I just want to not have her behavior matter

to me. Sigh. Any insights out there from fellow recovering enmeshed ones?

Thanks,

Fiona

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Me personally, its been hard to find that normal, mentally healthy, middle road

in life, in relationships with other people. I think its due to the

black-and-white-thinking flea that I absorbed from my nada. But now that I know

that I tend to do that, I can get a little emotional distance and try to work on

it.

If Jane your co-worker genuinely feels that you called her a liar and that hurt

her feelings, then, I think its OK to apologize to her. Your intention wasn't

to insult her, you just couldn't believe that the third party, the other

co-worker, would deliberately slam a door in Jane's face. But Jane

*interpreted* that as you calling her a liar (probably due to her warped pd

cognitive processing.)

Unfortunately with pd people, even if you do apologize she will probably remain

hostile and resentful and perhaps even feel entitled to retaliate against you.

But at least you would have done the right thing and apologized for

inadvertently hurting her feelings.

RE the big question of WHY is it that we keep going back for more abuse, why do

we keep trying over and over to normalize those with pd that are in our lives,

why do we even feel attracted to and befriend and even marry those with the

identical personality disorders our parents have ... good question.

I've heard two theories. One is that during our most impressionable, malleable,

formative years, we become imprinted on our parents' behaviors as " normal. " The

truth is that these behaviors aren't normal at all, they're just our reality and

they become familiar to us. Our parents define for us what loving behaviors

look like and feel like. So when we hit puberty and encounter the very familiar

traits and characteristics that were modeled to us as " normal " , our subconscious

(and newly-awakening hormones) equate these " normal " , familiar traits as

*appropriate and attractive.* So our subconscious is saying something like,

" Wow, he's cute, and he's cold and rejecting just like my mother / helpless and

needy just like my mother / angry and dramatic just like my father! I think I'm

in love! "

The other theory is that we find those with pds (like our parents) attractive or

engaging because we feel compelled to keep trying to make the relationship with

our parents work out, even if its by proxy. We keep working at it trying to

make the outcome positive this time: we're trying to make our parents love us

and approve of us, just using a substitute instead of the real thing.

-Annie

>

> I am more and more amazed at how I, up until now, seemed to attract--or be

drawn to--people that eventually became enmeshed with me, or wanted to be. I

mean emotionally fused to the point that they would become upset if I pulled

away and I would become jealous as well if they were friendly with others.

sick!!!

>

> At the company I used to work at, I was in the same department for 10 years.

There were only 3 of us in the department. I didn’t realize it at the time,

but we were enmeshed. I remember feeling funny, like “there’s something

wrong with this situation.†But I definitely knew I wasn’t being authentic,

I was pretending to like certain things and would do activities that I had no

interest in, all to be part of the gang. When I look back on it now, I think of

what a waste those 10 years were. It saddens me that I diminished myself because

of this unhealthy pattern in myself. And hate to say it without sounding like a

blamer, but I do blame my parents. They were both very much of the don’t rock

the boat/make others happy/what will the neighbors say variety. And it really

affected my personality. When I left that company, I felt so free. I felt like a

new person.

>

> Now, I’ve been in my present company for five years. I’m definitely much

more aware of myself, therapy has helped. But when I started here, I found

myself working alongside someone who I had to see and talk to every day. I’ll

call her Jane. She is a complainer, fearful, anxious. Reminded me so much of my

mother, which was dreadful. Well, Jane and I grew closer, because of my sick

relational pattern (and hers) and because my father had been diagnosed with lung

cancer. She was very nice about it and would check in to see how he was doing

and how I was (now I think it was just her way of latching onto me), so I

readily accepted her friendship.

>

> After 3 years of therapy and taking inventory of myself and my patterns, I

began to scale back my contact with my mother AND with Jane as much as possible.

As I said, she complains always. There is not a conversation with her that does

not include a complaint, a grievance shared, or mean gossip about people she

feels have wronged her. For the most part, I just ignore her and say something

" oh? that's too bad. " I limit my contribution to the point that the

conversation just dies.

>

> So yesterday, she began kvetching about a woman in our dept who she claimed

slammed a door in her face (that is, she walked through a door and didn’t hold

it open for her). Before she even started her story, I said, “oh you mean

Sally?? I LIKE Sally.†That was my way of saying, stop. Don’t continue this

story. But she went on, with great venom, to say what a b***ch Sally is. I

said, “I really can’t imagine Sally would do that.†Jane freaked out and

said, “don’t you think it was mean of Sally to do that??†I said, “I

wasn’t there, Jane.â€

>

> Like my mother, you cannot disagree with Jane. She practically spit at me when

she said, “I am so glad so and so was there with me. SHE knows I’m not

lying.†After that, there was no talking to her. We ended our conversation

with her saying, “I hope YOU don’t get a door slammed in YOUR face today.â€

It was so unpleasant, the force she spat her words out with, it was startling.

And then she can’t imagine why no one †" NO ONE †" will befriend her in our

department.

>

> I saw her later in the day and she fake-smiled/immediately scowled at me. She

really is a child.

>

> My question is: WWWHHHHYYY, knowing my patterns and my family history with

this kind of lunacy, do I have the desire to approach Jane and clarify things??

Why is this bugging me so much? I don’t want to give her dirty looks, I

don’t want to pretend I don’t see her. I just want to not have her behavior

matter to me. Sigh. Any insights out there from fellow recovering enmeshed ones?

>

> Thanks,

>

> Fiona

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Fiona, to me it seems like relating to someone who has the patterns of people

in my FOO is like dancing with someone who knows the same dance. It's so

familiar, I know exactly what to do, they do exactly what I expect. It's

comfortable, easy, even a confidence booster,...until it becomes very very

unpleasant. I tend to get involved with people like Jane too - if anything I

know how to play the sympathetic " ain't it awful " friend to a complainer. Sad

to say if I don't watch myself I become the complainer myself - that's how my

family communicated and bonded as I grew up.

So sounds like you were doing the complainer/validater dance with Jane and

decided to miss you cue! No validating, horrors! I guess at this point it's up

to you to decide how much of the relationship (if any) you want to keep. It's

not really about whether the door got slammed by Sally - maybe it did - but you

just don't want to be part of bad-mouthing your coworkers anymore...don't know

if she could understand that though.

>

> I am more and more amazed at how I, up until now, seemed to attract--or be

drawn to--people that eventually became enmeshed with me, or wanted to be. I

mean emotionally fused to the point that they would become upset if I pulled

away and I would become jealous as well if they were friendly with others.

sick!!!

>

> At the company I used to work at, I was in the same department for 10 years.

There were only 3 of us in the department. I didn’t realize it at the time,

but we were enmeshed. I remember feeling funny, like “there’s something

wrong with this situation.†But I definitely knew I wasn’t being authentic,

I was pretending to like certain things and would do activities that I had no

interest in, all to be part of the gang. When I look back on it now, I think of

what a waste those 10 years were. It saddens me that I diminished myself because

of this unhealthy pattern in myself. And hate to say it without sounding like a

blamer, but I do blame my parents. They were both very much of the don’t rock

the boat/make others happy/what will the neighbors say variety. And it really

affected my personality. When I left that company, I felt so free. I felt like a

new person.

>

> Now, I’ve been in my present company for five years. I’m definitely much

more aware of myself, therapy has helped. But when I started here, I found

myself working alongside someone who I had to see and talk to every day. I’ll

call her Jane. She is a complainer, fearful, anxious. Reminded me so much of my

mother, which was dreadful. Well, Jane and I grew closer, because of my sick

relational pattern (and hers) and because my father had been diagnosed with lung

cancer. She was very nice about it and would check in to see how he was doing

and how I was (now I think it was just her way of latching onto me), so I

readily accepted her friendship.

>

> After 3 years of therapy and taking inventory of myself and my patterns, I

began to scale back my contact with my mother AND with Jane as much as possible.

As I said, she complains always. There is not a conversation with her that does

not include a complaint, a grievance shared, or mean gossip about people she

feels have wronged her. For the most part, I just ignore her and say something

" oh? that's too bad. " I limit my contribution to the point that the

conversation just dies.

>

> So yesterday, she began kvetching about a woman in our dept who she claimed

slammed a door in her face (that is, she walked through a door and didn’t hold

it open for her). Before she even started her story, I said, “oh you mean

Sally?? I LIKE Sally.†That was my way of saying, stop. Don’t continue this

story. But she went on, with great venom, to say what a b***ch Sally is. I

said, “I really can’t imagine Sally would do that.†Jane freaked out and

said, “don’t you think it was mean of Sally to do that??†I said, “I

wasn’t there, Jane.â€

>

> Like my mother, you cannot disagree with Jane. She practically spit at me when

she said, “I am so glad so and so was there with me. SHE knows I’m not

lying.†After that, there was no talking to her. We ended our conversation

with her saying, “I hope YOU don’t get a door slammed in YOUR face today.â€

It was so unpleasant, the force she spat her words out with, it was startling.

And then she can’t imagine why no one †" NO ONE †" will befriend her in our

department.

>

> I saw her later in the day and she fake-smiled/immediately scowled at me. She

really is a child.

>

> My question is: WWWHHHHYYY, knowing my patterns and my family history with

this kind of lunacy, do I have the desire to approach Jane and clarify things??

Why is this bugging me so much? I don’t want to give her dirty looks, I

don’t want to pretend I don’t see her. I just want to not have her behavior

matter to me. Sigh. Any insights out there from fellow recovering enmeshed ones?

>

> Thanks,

>

> Fiona

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, Fi,

You know where you are. You see the STUFF happening. Now, what do you

do about it?

Are you up for some hard work? Some painful insights, peeling off of

scabs?

Try the book How People Grow, By Drs Henry Cloud and Townsend.

Girl, it aint easy. We spent a lifetime learning how to get this way.

But we can change. We can grow. We can heal.

And you all know my aegis statement for us all:

May we ALL heal.

Doug

>

> I am more and more amazed at how I, up until now, seemed to

attract--or be drawn to--people that eventually became enmeshed with me,

or wanted to be. I mean emotionally fused to the point that they would

become upset if I pulled away and I would become jealous as well if they

were friendly with others. sick!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been wanting to read Mom Factor.

I'll have to pick it up.

> >

> > I am more and more amazed at how I, up until now, seemed to attract--or be

drawn to--people that eventually became enmeshed with me, or wanted to be. I

mean emotionally fused to the point that they would become upset if I pulled

away and I would become jealous as well if they were friendly with others.

sick!!!

> >

> > At the company I used to work at, I was in the same department for 10 years.

There were only 3 of us in the department. I didn’t realize it at the

time, but we were enmeshed. I remember feeling funny, like  " there’s

something wrong with this situation.� But I definitely knew I

wasn’t being authentic, I was pretending to like certain things and would

do activities that I had no interest in, all to be part of the gang. When I look

back on it now, I think of what a waste those 10 years were. It saddens me that

I diminished myself because of this unhealthy pattern in myself. And hate to say

it without sounding like a blamer, but I do blame my parents. They were both

very much of the don’t rock the boat/make others happy/what will the

neighbors say variety. And it really affected my personality. When I left that

company, I felt so free. I felt like a new person.

> >

> > Now, I’ve been in my present company for five years. I’m

definitely much more aware of myself, therapy has helped. But when I started

here, I found myself working alongside someone who I had to see and talk to

every day. I’ll call her Jane. She is a complainer, fearful, anxious.

Reminded me so much of my mother, which was dreadful. Well, Jane and I grew

closer, because of my sick relational pattern (and hers) and because my father

had been diagnosed with lung cancer. She was very nice about it and would check

in to see how he was doing and how I was (now I think it was just her way of

latching onto me), so I readily accepted her friendship.

> >

> > After 3 years of therapy and taking inventory of myself and my patterns, I

began to scale back my contact with my mother AND with Jane as much as possible.

As I said, she complains always. There is not a conversation with her that does

not include a complaint, a grievance shared, or mean gossip about people she

feels have wronged her. For the most part, I just ignore her and say something

" oh? that's too bad. " I limit my contribution to the point that the conversation

just dies.

> >

> > So yesterday, she began kvetching about a woman in our dept who she claimed

slammed a door in her face (that is, she walked through a door and didn’t

hold it open for her). Before she even started her story, I said,  " oh you

mean Sally?? I LIKE Sally.� That was my way of saying, stop. Don’t

continue this story. But she went on, with great venom, to say what a b***ch

Sally is. I said,  " I really can’t imagine Sally would do

that.� Jane freaked out and said,  " don’t you think it was

mean of Sally to do that??� I said,  " I wasn’t there,

Jane.�

> >

> > Like my mother, you cannot disagree with Jane. She practically spit at me

when she said,  " I am so glad so and so was there with me. SHE knows

I’m not lying.� After that, there was no talking to her. We ended

our conversation with her saying,  " I hope YOU don’t get a door

slammed in YOUR face today.� It was so unpleasant, the force she spat her

words out with, it was startling. And then she can’t imagine why no one

†" NO ONE †" will befriend her in our department.

> >

> > I saw her later in the day and she fake-smiled/immediately scowled at me.

She really is a child.

> >

> > My question is: WWWHHHHYYY, knowing my patterns and my family history with

this kind of lunacy, do I have the desire to approach Jane and clarify things??

Why is this bugging me so much? I don’t want to give her dirty looks, I

don’t want to pretend I don’t see her. I just want to not have her

behavior matter to me. Sigh. Any insights out there from fellow recovering

enmeshed ones?

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Fiona

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

- you nailed it.

I decided to miss my cue and Jane got furious.

And you described it so perfectly: that's exactly our relationship --she

complains, I tut-tut and validate her (oh, Jane, I'm sure it's not all that bad

blah blah).

I would like to cease the relationship but we work together; there's the

challenge.

As Annie suggested, I would apologize to her for the misunderstanding, but

she'll just gain more steam that way. I don't know how I'll proceed. It's

assumed between us that we go down for coffee every morning. When I've tried to

pull away from it, by making up excuses, she gets weird... " I missed you; are

you getting coffee next week?? " It's creepy.

I think Sally slammed the door in her face on purpose. Jane's not well-liked

here at all. I mean, it's gotten ugly at times.

thank you all for your insights; it's true, some part of me felt like relating

to her was " normal " and " comfortable. " Now I know better! I can spot them a

mile away lately and STEER AWAY. Now, what to do with Jane????

> >

> > I am more and more amazed at how I, up until now, seemed to attract--or be

drawn to--people that eventually became enmeshed with me, or wanted to be. I

mean emotionally fused to the point that they would become upset if I pulled

away and I would become jealous as well if they were friendly with others.

sick!!!

> >

> > At the company I used to work at, I was in the same department for 10 years.

There were only 3 of us in the department. I didn’t realize it at the time,

but we were enmeshed. I remember feeling funny, like “there’s something

wrong with this situation.†But I definitely knew I wasn’t being authentic,

I was pretending to like certain things and would do activities that I had no

interest in, all to be part of the gang. When I look back on it now, I think of

what a waste those 10 years were. It saddens me that I diminished myself because

of this unhealthy pattern in myself. And hate to say it without sounding like a

blamer, but I do blame my parents. They were both very much of the don’t rock

the boat/make others happy/what will the neighbors say variety. And it really

affected my personality. When I left that company, I felt so free. I felt like a

new person.

> >

> > Now, I’ve been in my present company for five years. I’m definitely much

more aware of myself, therapy has helped. But when I started here, I found

myself working alongside someone who I had to see and talk to every day. I’ll

call her Jane. She is a complainer, fearful, anxious. Reminded me so much of my

mother, which was dreadful. Well, Jane and I grew closer, because of my sick

relational pattern (and hers) and because my father had been diagnosed with lung

cancer. She was very nice about it and would check in to see how he was doing

and how I was (now I think it was just her way of latching onto me), so I

readily accepted her friendship.

> >

> > After 3 years of therapy and taking inventory of myself and my patterns, I

began to scale back my contact with my mother AND with Jane as much as possible.

As I said, she complains always. There is not a conversation with her that does

not include a complaint, a grievance shared, or mean gossip about people she

feels have wronged her. For the most part, I just ignore her and say something

" oh? that's too bad. " I limit my contribution to the point that the

conversation just dies.

> >

> > So yesterday, she began kvetching about a woman in our dept who she claimed

slammed a door in her face (that is, she walked through a door and didn’t hold

it open for her). Before she even started her story, I said, “oh you mean

Sally?? I LIKE Sally.†That was my way of saying, stop. Don’t continue this

story. But she went on, with great venom, to say what a b***ch Sally is. I

said, “I really can’t imagine Sally would do that.†Jane freaked out and

said, “don’t you think it was mean of Sally to do that??†I said, “I

wasn’t there, Jane.â€

> >

> > Like my mother, you cannot disagree with Jane. She practically spit at me

when she said, “I am so glad so and so was there with me. SHE knows I’m not

lying.†After that, there was no talking to her. We ended our conversation

with her saying, “I hope YOU don’t get a door slammed in YOUR face today.â€

It was so unpleasant, the force she spat her words out with, it was startling.

And then she can’t imagine why no one †" NO ONE †" will befriend her in our

department.

> >

> > I saw her later in the day and she fake-smiled/immediately scowled at me.

She really is a child.

> >

> > My question is: WWWHHHHYYY, knowing my patterns and my family history with

this kind of lunacy, do I have the desire to approach Jane and clarify things??

Why is this bugging me so much? I don’t want to give her dirty looks, I

don’t want to pretend I don’t see her. I just want to not have her behavior

matter to me. Sigh. Any insights out there from fellow recovering enmeshed ones?

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Fiona

> >

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Laurie - YUP! sounds very familiar to me.

Too familiar.

> >

> > I am more and more amazed at how I, up until now, seemed to attract--or

> be drawn to--people that eventually became enmeshed with me, or wanted to

> be. I mean emotionally fused to the point that they would become upset if I

> pulled away and I would become jealous as well if they were friendly with

> others. sick!!!

> >

> > At the company I used to work at, I was in the same department for 10

> years. There were only 3 of us in the department. I didn’t realize it

at

> the time, but we were enmeshed. I remember feeling funny, like

 " there’s

> something wrong with this situation.†But I definitely knew I

wasn’t

> being authentic, I was pretending to like certain things and would do

> activities that I had no interest in, all to be part of the gang. When I look

> back on it now, I think of what a waste those 10 years were. It saddens me

> that I diminished myself because of this unhealthy pattern in myself. And

> hate to say it without sounding like a blamer, but I do blame my parents.

They

> were both very much of the don’t rock the boat/make others happy/what

> will the neighbors say variety. And it really affected my personality. When

> I left that company, I felt so free. I felt like a new person.

> >

> > Now, I’ve been in my present company for five years. I’m

> definitely much more aware of myself, therapy has helped. But when I started

here, I

> found myself working alongside someone who I had to see and talk to every

> day. I’ll call her Jane. She is a complainer, fearful, anxious.

Reminded

> me so much of my mother, which was dreadful. Well, Jane and I grew closer,

> because of my sick relational pattern (and hers) and because my father had

> been diagnosed with lung cancer. She was very nice about it and would

> check in to see how he was doing and how I was (now I think it was just her

way

> of latching onto me), so I readily accepted her friendship.

> >

> > After 3 years of therapy and taking inventory of myself and my patterns,

> I began to scale back my contact with my mother AND with Jane as much as

> possible. As I said, she complains always. There is not a conversation with

> her that does not include a complaint, a grievance shared, or mean gossip

> about people she feels have wronged her. For the most part, I just ignore

> her and say something " oh? that's too bad. " I limit my contribution to the

> point that the conversation just dies.

> >

> > So yesterday, she began kvetching about a woman in our dept who she

> claimed slammed a door in her face (that is, she walked through a door and

didnâ

> €™t hold it open for her). Before she even started her story, I said,

 "

> oh you mean Sally?? I LIKE Sally.†That was my way of saying, stop.

Donâ

> €™t continue this story. But she went on, with great venom, to say what a

> b***ch Sally is. I said,  " I really can’t imagine Sally would do

that.â€

>  Jane freaked out and said,  " don’t you think it was mean of

Sally

> to do that??†I said,  " I wasn’t there, Jane.â€Â

> >

> > Like my mother, you cannot disagree with Jane. She practically spit at

> me when she said,  " I am so glad so and so was there with me. SHE knows

Iâ

> €™m not lying.†After that, there was no talking to her. We ended

our

> conversation with her saying,  " I hope YOU don’t get a door

slammed in

> YOUR face today.†It was so unpleasant, the force she spat her words

out

> with, it was startling. And then she can’t imagine why no one †"

NO ONE â

> € " will befriend her in our department.

> >

> > I saw her later in the day and she fake-smiled/immediately scowled at

> me. She really is a child.

> >

> > My question is: WWWHHHHYYY, knowing my patterns and my family history

> with this kind of lunacy, do I have the desire to approach Jane and clarify

> things?? Why is this bugging me so much? I don’t want to give her dirty

> looks, I don’t want to pretend I don’t see her. I just want to

not have

> her behavior matter to me. Sigh. Any insights out there from fellow

> recovering enmeshed ones?

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Fiona

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<< Are you up for some hard work? Some painful insights, peeling off of scabs?>>

you know, I think I AM up for it.

I've been catching myself saying NO more lately, telling my brother " no, that

doesn't work for me " instead of walking on eggshells to explain myself.

I admire Cloud/Townsend a lot; am reading Changes That Heal. I tried reading How

We Grow last year, but decided I wasn't ready for it yet. I'll give it another

go.

> >

> > I am more and more amazed at how I, up until now, seemed to

> attract--or be drawn to--people that eventually became enmeshed with me,

> or wanted to be. I mean emotionally fused to the point that they would

> become upset if I pulled away and I would become jealous as well if they

> were friendly with others. sick!!!

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fiona, here's an idea...don't know how practical it is but I'll throw it out

there. You could tell Jane that you noticed she seemed upset after your

discussion about Sally. That you wanted her to know it wasn't about her but

that *you* were instituting a new policy of not talking about third parties

based on self-help book X that you read. In an effort to be more positive and

encourage direct communication in the workplace...that this has nothing to do

with Jane herself but something you are trying. At that point what's she gonna

say - no, I insist on being negative and you must be too! Maybe. But if she's

got any of her inner image tied up with being a nice person this might work.

She'll probably also find this so unsatisfying that she might not want to get

coffee so much.

Good luck!

>

> - you nailed it.

> I decided to miss my cue and Jane got furious.

> And you described it so perfectly: that's exactly our relationship --she

complains, I tut-tut and validate her (oh, Jane, I'm sure it's not all that bad

blah blah).

>

> I would like to cease the relationship but we work together; there's the

challenge.

>

> As Annie suggested, I would apologize to her for the misunderstanding, but

she'll just gain more steam that way. I don't know how I'll proceed. It's

assumed between us that we go down for coffee every morning. When I've tried to

pull away from it, by making up excuses, she gets weird... " I missed you; are

you getting coffee next week?? " It's creepy.

>

> I think Sally slammed the door in her face on purpose. Jane's not well-liked

here at all. I mean, it's gotten ugly at times.

>

> thank you all for your insights; it's true, some part of me felt like relating

to her was " normal " and " comfortable. " Now I know better! I can spot them a

mile away lately and STEER AWAY. Now, what to do with Jane????

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fiona,I had a coworker a bit like Jane a couple of years ago.She used my fada's

death as a way to latch on to me,calling me at home when I was on bereavement

leave *from work in front of other coworkers*,giving me flowers when I returned

to work,telling me I could call her if I needed to " talk " --and then getting

angry with me and holding a lllloooonnnnggg grudge when I didn't call her to cry

on her shoulder about fada.The more I tried to keep it casual and light because

I had caught a whiff of dysfunction from her from the beginning,the more cloying

she became.I got that too from her,the " Oh,,I missed you! " when we

hadn't worked on the same day...We both had a black knit dress and one day she

suggested we both wear our knits dresses on a Friday " so we can be twins " .I kid

you not.I was like: god,do I have a big red X on my forehead or something,that I

attract these types? I think now the thing was,I was too easy going because I

was too *used* to putting up with boundary violations from nada.She ended up

turning on me and trying to smear me to our other coworkers when I didn't want

to be her extra special friend.I later learned that she had done this to a

couple of other people and that she was a total narcissist.Her feelings were as

fact as deep as the kitchen sink,it turned out.So please remember you have

nothing to feel guilty about for wanting to avoid Jane.She sounds potentially

toxic.

I like 's suggestion that you let her know somehow that your

reaction to the door slamming incident was nothing personal.You do that with

*everybody*.You would have said the same thing to *anybody*.I suspect that might

take the wind out of her sails and bore her,and besides,like said,what is

she going to say? Especially to anyone else.It makes you look like the

reasonable one.

> >

> > - you nailed it.

> > I decided to miss my cue and Jane got furious.

> > And you described it so perfectly: that's exactly our relationship --she

complains, I tut-tut and validate her (oh, Jane, I'm sure it's not all that bad

blah blah).

> >

> > I would like to cease the relationship but we work together; there's the

challenge.

> >

> > As Annie suggested, I would apologize to her for the misunderstanding, but

she'll just gain more steam that way. I don't know how I'll proceed. It's

assumed between us that we go down for coffee every morning. When I've tried to

pull away from it, by making up excuses, she gets weird... " I missed you; are

you getting coffee next week?? " It's creepy.

> >

> > I think Sally slammed the door in her face on purpose. Jane's not well-liked

here at all. I mean, it's gotten ugly at times.

> >

> > thank you all for your insights; it's true, some part of me felt like

relating to her was " normal " and " comfortable. " Now I know better! I can spot

them a mile away lately and STEER AWAY. Now, what to do with Jane????

> >

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that's a good idea, & worth a try. I wouldn't bring it up though unless

Jane starts in on her old behaviors of wanting to share negative gossip with

you. Then mention " the self-help book " that you're following. (I suggest that

you choose a real book in case she asks about it and wants to read it... how

about SWOE? Lol!)

-Annie

> >

> > - you nailed it.

> > I decided to miss my cue and Jane got furious.

> > And you described it so perfectly: that's exactly our relationship --she

complains, I tut-tut and validate her (oh, Jane, I'm sure it's not all that bad

blah blah).

> >

> > I would like to cease the relationship but we work together; there's the

challenge.

> >

> > As Annie suggested, I would apologize to her for the misunderstanding, but

she'll just gain more steam that way. I don't know how I'll proceed. It's

assumed between us that we go down for coffee every morning. When I've tried to

pull away from it, by making up excuses, she gets weird... " I missed you; are

you getting coffee next week?? " It's creepy.

> >

> > I think Sally slammed the door in her face on purpose. Jane's not well-liked

here at all. I mean, it's gotten ugly at times.

> >

> > thank you all for your insights; it's true, some part of me felt like

relating to her was " normal " and " comfortable. " Now I know better! I can spot

them a mile away lately and STEER AWAY. Now, what to do with Jane????

> >

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds like your " radar " for detecting personality disorder is working pretty

well! I too am suspicious of those who are too friendly too fast, who give

presents or do unusual favors for me too early in the relationship, etc. That

feels to me like the person is trying to make me feel indebted to him or her in

a way that obligates me to respond in kind. Too friendly too fast = red flag,

for me. I do much better with slower-building relationships, or I guess I

should say, I feel safer with developing a friendship slowly.

Good for you for not feeling like you had to go ahead and attend his dinner and

be " dessert " when you weren't ready for that. Good for you for listening to

your intuition!

I hope you don't allow him to pressure you and guilt you into dating him,

that's not a good reason to date someone, in fact, its a horrible reason to date

someone. From what you describe, he doesn't take " no " for an answer easily and

resorts to using FOG (fear-obligation-guilt) to pressure others into complying

with his wishes.

That's how a guy I dated briefly in college acted. Wouldn't take " no " for an

answer, and when I said I didn't want to go out with him anymore he began

stalking me. Fortunately my parents wanted to move anyway, so I relocated with

them and that's the only thing that made that guy give up.

Listen to your gut!

-Annie

>

> Hi

> Recently a guy latched on to me and he wanted to see me so hed invite me to do

things even though I didn't show a lot of interest. I was trying to find him

attractive but something was off. He invited me to his house for a special

dinner he was going to cook. I realized he was going to expect something in

return and I wasn't attracted so I told him I didn't want to come over a day

ahead of time. A couple of days later I got the guilt trip of my life. " He

expected more of me. You made me angry. You hurt me " I said sorry twice he said

" well that's a start " etc etc. It was similar to what you're describing I

think. I wanted to keep it chill. He wanted to turn up the heat and then found

himself wounded to the max when I couldn't comply with HIS script. Very

imperious for such a meek little guy.

> Please excuse any typos or terseness, this message was sent from a mobile

device.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To all my lady friends on here,

No, wait that doesnt sound right.

You are not ladies, but you are friends.

No, wait that doesnt work.

Lets try,

Hey Gals!

( lol, in a silly mood)

The guy who moves way too fast, expects way too much, gets highly

offended when you do not meet expectations or standards that he set

without your approval or knowledge, should set of bells and red flags

all over the place.

For any woman, but in particular for KO s , since we were programmed to

subsume our own self to that of another, it is a precursor to a

controlling or abusive man. The guy who ends up cutting you off from

your friends and family, draining your bank account, making you feel as

small and unworthy as nada ever did, and perhaps, finally beating you,

will not start out that way.

He will start out with a charm offensive.

Too much to write it all here, but I would urge you to read some and get

to know what the abusive man is like, so warning bells go off. You, as

a KO woman, are, I would guess, many times more likely than other women

to end up in such a relationship.

With my Big Brother hat on ,

Doug

> >

> > Hi

> > Recently a guy latched on to me and he wanted to see me so hed

invite me to do things even though I didn't show a lot of interest. I

was trying to find him attractive but something was off. He invited me

to his house for a special dinner he was going to cook. I realized he

was going to expect something in return and I wasn't attracted so I told

him I didn't want to come over a day ahead of time. A couple of days

later I got the guilt trip of my life. " He expected more of me. You made

me angry. You hurt me " I said sorry twice he said " well that's a start "

etc etc. It was similar to what you're describing I think. I wanted to

keep it chill. He wanted to turn up the heat and then found himself

wounded to the max when I couldn't comply with HIS script. Very

imperious for such a meek little guy.

> > Please excuse any typos or terseness, this message was sent from a

mobile device.

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not to be too " enmeshy, " but I really do view you as a big brother, Doug!

Your perspective is always right-on.

> > >

> > > Hi

> > > Recently a guy latched on to me and he wanted to see me so hed

> invite me to do things even though I didn't show a lot of interest. I

> was trying to find him attractive but something was off. He invited me

> to his house for a special dinner he was going to cook. I realized he

> was going to expect something in return and I wasn't attracted so I told

> him I didn't want to come over a day ahead of time. A couple of days

> later I got the guilt trip of my life. " He expected more of me. You made

> me angry. You hurt me " I said sorry twice he said " well that's a start "

> etc etc. It was similar to what you're describing I think. I wanted to

> keep it chill. He wanted to turn up the heat and then found himself

> wounded to the max when I couldn't comply with HIS script. Very

> imperious for such a meek little guy.

> > > Please excuse any typos or terseness, this message was sent from a

> mobile device.

> >

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...