Re: KO Women and abusive men

[Guest guest]

Doug you rock, thank you for the brotherly concern!!!! I LOVE the navy

analogies, they work for this cowgirl!

Here's my relationship history, if anyone cares. I'm totally open to being

psychoanalyzed on it. I think I see the replication of my relationship with

my mother all over the place.

First at age 21, while still in college, I married kind of a pansy mamma's

boy from a town even more rural than where I grew up (if you can imagine

that), and he was emotionally unavailable and terrified of his mother, who

was such a terrifying person I can't even describe her. She was big (like 6

ft 1, 300 lbs), hideously ugly, domineering, bossy, mentally ill, she would

have screaming, kicking tantrums like a 2 year old, I wouldn't turn my back

on her for fear she would bash my head in with a rock - seriously, that's

how she made me feel. She tried to run our lives, and she hated me and

wanted him to still be a child. At one point she even told him she was going

to have a life-size doll made that looked exactly like him at age 7 - is

that scary or what? Then, after he didn't speak to me for 4 months at about

the 6.5 year mark of an unhappy relationship, and he offered NO explanation

for not speaking to me, I filed for divorce and asked him to move out. The

divorce was ugly, as they almost always are. He was furious. And I fought my

ass off to keep my house and my savings, he even wanted me to pay him for

Mimi, my dog, who he hated. I won. he gave in after I put on a huge

performance at mediation (I can be very theatrical, and so I pretended I was

a domineering scary lady). My parents reaction to my divorce was horrible

and that is what lead me to NC. It's been 8 years (almost).

After that I dated a really fun artist who was completely irresponsible and

lived in his van down by the river - more or less. Of course that had to

end, though I think this was the first time in my life I ever did something

entirely because it was FUN. We even spent a week squatting in an art studio

in NY one summer, I had a blast - but I couldn't take it real serious -

though he begged me to marry him and have babies with him (I don't want

babies after the rough life I've had - why pass it on?). And then I fell in

love with an angry alcoholic ex=marine (who was physically one of the most

beautiful men I've ever seen), but who had major emotional problems after

suffering childhood abuse and neglect that he didn't deal with or get help

for. That relationship went down in utter flames - pretty much a blaze of

glory it was horrible and intense!

And then I met my Todd, a sensitive, responsible artist - I don't know how I

did it, I met someone who doesn't have a mental illness. Wow. He really has

his shit together - he is my big supporter in life and I have never felt so

precious as when I am with him. And he draws and paints my face, arms and

hands nearly every day (I have extremly long arms and hands and fingers and

got teased for it a LOT, piano hands was what my grandmother called it. . .

so its nice that he thinks its pretty)- its like wow, this guy thinks I'm a

work of art.

Okay, now I have tears in my eyes. T and I are trying to reframe my image of

myself so that I see what he sees. Isn't that beautiful? Nothing like being

in love with an artist to recreate your self-esteem.

Hugs everyone, yes please, don't date douche bags. I've done it and done it

and done it . . . its time for some real love.

>

>

> Ladies

>

> A separate topic brought to mind by another post. I think KO s are

> particularly vulnerable to unsafe relationships. Women in particular

> are vulnerable to controlling and abusive men. Nada groomed you

> perfectly for them, and they will have a finely honed radar to find you.

>

> I d like to help you set up your countermeasures, so you open fire on

> them before they get close enough. ( pardon the Navy analogies. LOL )

>

> Men who abuse women do not just walk up to you and smack you across the

> mouth. That comes months or years later, and is of course , your fault.

> We had a man near me recently kill his wife, step daughter, and a

> neighbor girl because the wife burned his eggs.

>

> They will start out charming and flattering. But you are viewed as a

> conquest, and a possession to be maneuvered and controlled, not as a

> treasure to be cherished. I know and counsel with couples and women who

> have gone thru this sort of drama. If he won t change, she must run to

> get away. And such men view their women as chattel to be brought back

> at the point of a gun, or hunted down and punished.

>

> If I m scaring you, good. Such men are ought there.

>

> Some reading for you

>

> Safe People , Cloud Townsend

>

> http://www.amazon.com/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/0425191656/ref=sr_\

>

1_1?ie=UTF8 & qid=1286725048 & sr=8-1<http://www.amazon.com/Why-Does-He-That-Control\

ling/dp/0425191656/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8 & qid=1286725048 & sr=8-1>

>

> http://www.amazon.com/But-Never-Hit-Devastating-Non-Physical/dp/05954113\

>

98/ref=pd_sim_b_2<http://www.amazon.com/But-Never-Hit-Devastating-Non-Physical/d\

p/0595411398/ref=pd_sim_b_2>

> <http://www.amazon.com/But-Never-Hit-Devastating-Non-Physical/dp/0595411\

>

398/ref=pd_sim_b_2<http://www.amazon.com/But-Never-Hit-Devastating-Non-Physical/\

dp/0595411398/ref=pd_sim_b_2>

> >

>

> http://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Vampires-Dealing-People-Drain/dp/0071381\

>

678/ref=pd_sim_b_6<http://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Vampires-Dealing-People-Drain\

/dp/0071381678/ref=pd_sim_b_6>

> <http://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Vampires-Dealing-People-Drain/dp/007138\

>

1678/ref=pd_sim_b_6<http://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Vampires-Dealing-People-Drai\

n/dp/0071381678/ref=pd_sim_b_6>

> >

>

> Don t be a victim again. You were a victim of nada. And you learned

> patterns of response that make you terribly vulnerable to these

> sociopathic Vampires. Arm yourself with knowledge and a radar for

> them. When you find one charming you

>

> RUN LIKE HELL. Give him nothing. Do NOT let him down easy, and try to

> gently say I m not interested.

> Repeat after me: Get the fuck away from me and if you ever call or come

> around me again I ll have you arrested, and I will press charges. I will

> not permit you to be a part of my life , I know what you are. I have a

> gun and PMS and I m not afraid to use either.

>

> Not trying to be a snoop or control freak here, just viewing all you KO

> women as my extended family, dozens of lil sisters!

>

> As a husband, a father of daughters, a brother of sisters, I never want

> to see any women endure that shit.

>

> Defenses up!

>

> Doug

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Doug! I always wanted an older brother, so I'll adopt you as my

virtual big brother (even though I think I'm older than you!)

That is excellent advice.

Yes, I too think that being raised by abusive or negligent

personality-disordered, mentally ill (or substance-abusing) parents sets up

their children to be targeted by similarly abusive dates/spouses.

As you point out, we KOs have been groomed, trained/conditioned/brainwashed to

accept that being controlled, dominated, mistreated, or ignored, rejected,

neglected is what " normal " , " loving " relationships look like & feel like.

Sometimes we try to " redo " our original parent/child relationship by " repairing "

a similarly mentally ill partner so the outcome is different this time:

mommy/daddy will love me.

I would also like to suggest " The Gift of Fear " by Gavin DeBecker as a good book

on learning to become more consciously aware of the signals and behaviors that

dangerous, psychotic, narcissistic, manipulative people engage in to charm and

seduce you, and gain your trust. Its also about personal safety and learning to

naturally avoid situations that will put you in danger.

-Annie

>

> Ladies

>

> A separate topic brought to mind by another post. I think KO s are

> particularly vulnerable to unsafe relationships. Women in particular

> are vulnerable to controlling and abusive men. Nada groomed you

> perfectly for them, and they will have a finely honed radar to find you.

>

> I d like to help you set up your countermeasures, so you open fire on

> them before they get close enough. ( pardon the Navy analogies. LOL )

>

> Men who abuse women do not just walk up to you and smack you across the

> mouth. That comes months or years later, and is of course , your fault.

> We had a man near me recently kill his wife, step daughter, and a

> neighbor girl because the wife burned his eggs.

>

> They will start out charming and flattering. But you are viewed as a

> conquest, and a possession to be maneuvered and controlled, not as a

> treasure to be cherished. I know and counsel with couples and women who

> have gone thru this sort of drama. If he won t change, she must run to

> get away. And such men view their women as chattel to be brought back

> at the point of a gun, or hunted down and punished.

>

> If I m scaring you, good. Such men are ought there.

>

> Some reading for you

>

> Safe People , Cloud Townsend

>

> http://www.amazon.com/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/0425191656/ref=sr_\

> 1_1?ie=UTF8 & qid=1286725048 & sr=8-1

>

>

> http://www.amazon.com/But-Never-Hit-Devastating-Non-Physical/dp/05954113\

> 98/ref=pd_sim_b_2

> <http://www.amazon.com/But-Never-Hit-Devastating-Non-Physical/dp/0595411\

> 398/ref=pd_sim_b_2>

>

>

> http://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Vampires-Dealing-People-Drain/dp/0071381\

> 678/ref=pd_sim_b_6

> <http://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Vampires-Dealing-People-Drain/dp/007138\

> 1678/ref=pd_sim_b_6>

>

>

> Don t be a victim again. You were a victim of nada. And you learned

> patterns of response that make you terribly vulnerable to these

> sociopathic Vampires. Arm yourself with knowledge and a radar for

> them. When you find one charming you

>

> RUN LIKE HELL. Give him nothing. Do NOT let him down easy, and try to

> gently say I m not interested.

> Repeat after me: Get the fuck away from me and if you ever call or come

> around me again I ll have you arrested, and I will press charges. I will

> not permit you to be a part of my life , I know what you are. I have a

> gun and PMS and I m not afraid to use either.

>

> Not trying to be a snoop or control freak here, just viewing all you KO

> women as my extended family, dozens of lil sisters!

>

> As a husband, a father of daughters, a brother of sisters, I never want

> to see any women endure that shit.

>

>

> Defenses up!

>

> Doug

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sailor, big brother, and Artist! ( didnt you know?) ,

and I m sharing your tears.

Yes, reframing that image of ourselves is what it s about. Wise T.

It s hard, hon, but it pays off.

Doug

>

> Doug you rock, thank you for the brotherly concern!!!! I LOVE the navy

> analogies, they work for this cowgirl!

>

> And then I met my Todd, a sensitive, responsible artist - I don't know

how I

> did it, I met someone who doesn't have a mental illness. Wow. He

really has

> his shit together - he is my big supporter in life and I have never

felt so

> precious as when I am with him. And he draws and paints my face, arms

and

> hands nearly every day (I have extremly long arms and hands and

fingers and

> got teased for it a LOT, piano hands was what my grandmother called

it. . .

> so its nice that he thinks its pretty)- its like wow, this guy thinks

I'm a

> work of art.

>

> Okay, now I have tears in my eyes. T and I are trying to reframe my

image of

> myself so that I see what he sees. Isn't that beautiful? Nothing like

being

> in love with an artist to recreate your self-esteem.

[Guest guest]

I was born old. As were most of us.

We didnt have a mom, we had a nada.

We didnt have the nurture then, but part of our strength, part of our

healing now, is we DO have siblings.

Each other. We are gonna do it together. We are gonna do it because we

know there are really folks who care what the hell happens to us.

So, may we all heal!

Doug

>

> Thank you Doug! I always wanted an older brother, so I'll adopt you

as my virtual big brother (even though I think I'm older than you!)

> That is excellent advice.

>

> Yes, I too think that being raised by abusive or negligent

personality-disordered, mentally ill (or substance-abusing) parents sets

up their children to be targeted by similarly abusive dates/spouses.

>

> As you point out, we KOs have been groomed,

trained/conditioned/brainwashed to accept that being controlled,

dominated, mistreated, or ignored, rejected, neglected is what " normal " ,

" loving " relationships look like & feel like. Sometimes we try to

" redo " our original parent/child relationship by " repairing " a similarly

mentally ill partner so the outcome is different this time: mommy/daddy

will love me.

>

> I would also like to suggest " The Gift of Fear " by Gavin DeBecker as a

good book on learning to become more consciously aware of the signals

and behaviors that dangerous, psychotic, narcissistic, manipulative

people engage in to charm and seduce you, and gain your trust. Its also

about personal safety and learning to naturally avoid situations that

will put you in danger.

>

> -Annie

>

>

[Guest guest]

Doug, you are a gift.

Thank you for this!

As I've progressed through therapy I've started to at least be a little more

aware and have altered some of my standards. I'm thankful that my therapist

kind of helps me sort through things.

Ninera

>

> Subject: KO Women and abusive men

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Date: Sunday, October 10, 2010, 4:04 PM

> Ladies

>

> A separate topic brought to mind by another post.  I

> think KO s are

> particularly vulnerable to unsafe relationships. 

> Women in particular

> are vulnerable to controlling and abusive men. Nada groomed

> you

> perfectly for them, and they will have a finely honed radar

> to find you.

>

> I d like to help you set up your countermeasures, so you

> open fire on

> them before they get close enough.  ( pardon the Navy

> analogies. LOL )

>

> Men who abuse women do not just walk up to you and smack

> you across the

> mouth. That comes months or years later, and is of course ,

> your fault.

> We had a man near me recently kill his wife, step daughter,

> and a

> neighbor girl because the wife burned his eggs.

>

> They will start out charming and

> flattering.   But you are viewed as a

> conquest, and a possession to be maneuvered and controlled,

> not as a

> treasure to be cherished.  I know and counsel with

> couples and women who

> have gone thru this sort of drama.  If he won t

> change, she must run to

> get away.  And such men view their women as chattel to

> be brought back

> at the point of a gun, or hunted down and punished.

>

> If I m scaring you, good. Such men are ought there.

>

> Some reading for you

>

> Safe People  , Cloud Townsend

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow,

Never was much the ladies man. Now I have this growing harem!

I should write a book! Oh, yea, I AM writing a book.

Never mind.

Doug

>

> > From: doug883@... doug883@...

> > Subject: KO Women and abusive men

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1

> > Date: Sunday, October 10, 2010, 4:04 PM

> > Ladies

> >

> > A separate topic brought to mind by another post. I

> > think KO s are

> > particularly vulnerable to unsafe relationships.

> > Women in particular

> > are vulnerable to controlling and abusive men. Nada groomed

> > you

> > perfectly for them, and they will have a finely honed radar

> > to find you.

> >

> > I d like to help you set up your countermeasures, so you

> > open fire on

> > them before they get close enough. ( pardon the Navy

> > analogies. LOL )

> >

> > Men who abuse women do not just walk up to you and smack

> > you across the

> > mouth. That comes months or years later, and is of course ,

> > your fault.

> > We had a man near me recently kill his wife, step daughter,

> > and a

> > neighbor girl because the wife burned his eggs.

> >

> > They will start out charming and

> > flattering. But you are viewed as a

> > conquest, and a possession to be maneuvered and controlled,

> > not as a

> > treasure to be cherished. I know and counsel with

> > couples and women who

> > have gone thru this sort of drama. If he won t

> > change, she must run to

> > get away. And such men view their women as chattel to

> > be brought back

> > at the point of a gun, or hunted down and punished.

> >

> > If I m scaring you, good. Such men are ought there.

> >

> > Some reading for you

> >

> > Safe People , Cloud Townsend

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I am also all too familiar with douchebaggery among the long string of

abusive men I have dated.

It all starts with nada doesn't it? Nada taught me to be a receptacle for all

the abuse that the men could dish out, whether it came in the form of

abandonment, verbal, financial, or physical....... I have seen it all. Beyond

the bruises and tears there's still hope for us.

After about a decade and a half of repeating the same cycle, douchebag

approaches KO, douchebag charms/talks/promises the world, douchebag fails to

follow through on promises, KO becomes abused and confused, breakup ensues with

high drama... I decided I needed a counsellor or I would go crazy..... and end

up alone.

It's so common and unfortunate among us KO gals, but there's hope, if one can

sort it all out with the help of a great counsellor. My main challenge in life

is to stop being a people pleaser, and boy, how liberating!

I am happy to say that for the first time, in 32 years, literally, I am in a

healthy relationship with a man. It's so different, and it feels so good that

sometimes I want to pinch myself. My wonderful partner was divorced from a

bipolar woman who really put him through the ringer. Luckily his father is a

fantastic psychologist and managed to get him through it and successfully raised

a brilliant, sensitive, loving person. He and I have an ongoing joke that we're

both waiting for the other to " turn the corner " and go crazy suddenly. We're

both just so relieved to have found eachother amidst the maddness.

For the first time I can truly say I am happy in romance. !!!!

Thanks for the book suggestion, I will check it out for sure.

PS: Doug you're wonderful

[Guest guest]

Douchebaggery? Writing this one down.....

>

> Yes, I am also all too familiar with douchebaggery among the long

string of abusive men I have dated.

>

> It all starts with nada doesn't it? Nada taught me to be a receptacle

for all the abuse that the men could dish out, whether it came in the

form of abandonment, verbal, financial, or physical....... I have seen

it all. Beyond the bruises and tears there's still hope for us.

>

> After about a decade and a half of repeating the same cycle, douchebag

approaches KO, douchebag charms/talks/promises the world, douchebag

fails to follow through on promises, KO becomes abused and confused,

breakup ensues with high drama... I decided I needed a counsellor or I

would go crazy..... and end up alone.

>

> It's so common and unfortunate among us KO gals, but there's hope, if

one can sort it all out with the help of a great counsellor. My main

challenge in life is to stop being a people pleaser, and boy, how

liberating!

>

> I am happy to say that for the first time, in 32 years, literally, I

am in a healthy relationship with a man. It's so different, and it feels

so good that sometimes I want to pinch myself. My wonderful partner was

divorced from a bipolar woman who really put him through the ringer.

Luckily his father is a fantastic psychologist and managed to get him

through it and successfully raised a brilliant, sensitive, loving

person. He and I have an ongoing joke that we're both waiting for the

other to " turn the corner " and go crazy suddenly. We're both just so

relieved to have found eachother amidst the maddness.

>

> For the first time I can truly say I am happy in romance. !!!!

>

> Thanks for the book suggestion, I will check it out for sure.

>

> PS: Doug you're wonderful

>

[Guest guest]

*laughing hysterically*

Wanna know how I ended up with the great guy I have now? He spent 35 years

married to a BP!!!

--LL.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the information and the encouragement Doug. My parents and I always

puzzled at why I was such an abuser magnet. I dated 5 controlling men, all for

no longer than 6 months, didn't marry any of them thank the good Lord. My dad

was not abusive, just emotionally absent. It wasn't until the last few months

that I realized my mom was abusive because of her BPD and I had no idea that a

mother could have so much influence over her daughter's choice of men. It's so

helpful to read others responses to realize I'm not alone in this and that your

mom's treatment of you does have an impact on who you choose to date and or

marry. I thankfully got tired and frustrated with their control and broken up

with all of them after a few months - thought I was crazy and couldn't be happy

with a guy - now I'm realizing it was just good judgment - who knew?

Now I'm growing wiser and have slowed down the dating scene to gain persepctive

and I appreciate the input and advice from healthy men - thank you for sharing.

missrydin