Re: Martyr Mom

[Guest guest]

i feel the exact same as you...it's so confusing and I end up feeling like the

sickie and why can't i appreciate her while she's still alive. It's very

twisting. I have terrible memories of her disrespect of my civil rights, then

she wants to act normal...I have a very hard time with it also. You are not

alone!

Amy

Martyr Mom

So I just got off the phone with my mother, and the worst part of it was that

she wasn't acting manipulative or mean or crazy. She was really reasonable and

normal. I absolutely HATE those kinds of conversations! I wish she would just

act like somebody who I'm justified in cutting out of my life. When she doesn't,

when she goes all maternal and martyr-esque on me, I feel like the world's most

ungrateful daughter. I feel like maybe *I'm* the one with BPD instead of her!

Anybody else ever have a similar experience with their BPD parent?

It's almost to the point where I don't want to be around her because the times

when she acts like a normal parent are WORSE than the times she acts angry,

selfish, manipulative, or abusive. At least then I know what I'm dealing with

and I can resist. How do you resist a mother who's saying to you, " I just want

us to have a relationship " and " I've always loved you " , even if you remember

some of the horrible things that have happened in the past?

As long as she's living, am I ever going to be okay?

Psyclone47

[Guest guest]

Dude. I just had one of these conversations the other day. My mom is especially

good at these because she was a single mom, and we were pretty poor when I was

growing up. Oh, the times I've heard, " I had to do whatever it took to get us

from Point A to Point B. " It's a like a broken record, for sure. Bear with me

while I relate this recent example.

Recently, Mom threw out another of her " tests, " involving me being somewhere I

didn't want to be to prove that I love her, saying that I " never go out of my

comfort zone for her, only for other people, " and that she is always going out

of her way for me. She spoke so calmly, without screaming or cursing, that I

started to feel like a giant pile of shit. Then she started to cry.

And then she started dissociating, describing things I'd never said to her and

events that had happened in an entirely different way than she remembers. And I

remembered, " That's right. She's crazy. "

I tried to think of something I'd asked her for since I was 17. Oh yeah, I asked

her to stop swearing at me/threatening me/calling me names when she was angry

and to be nice to my husband. The long and short of it is, she considers these

things to be above and beyond the requirements of a normal relationship, and

therefore, feels she is " going out of her way " for me.

Psyclone, when you wrote, " I wish she would just act like somebody who I'm

justified in cutting out of my life, " I started nodding vigorously at my

computer. Thing is, my mom, and I'm sure yours as well, has done many things

that anyone who was not her child would consider just grounds for giving her the

heave-ho. The difference with mine, at least, is that (and I'm chuckling as I

write this) she's only Really Abusive every once in a while. The rest of the

time, she's only manipulative, needy, untrustworthy, and slightly nuts.

One thing I've done that's really helped is writing down events and

conversations that we have. Then, when I'm not sure which of us actually has

BPD, I look over my writings and remember why I'm so damn confused and angry all

the time!

" As long as she's living, am I ever going to be okay? "

I wonder this often. I don't wish death on my mother, but I can't help feeling

that my life will get dramatically easier when she goes. When she's acting

" reasonable and normal, " I just try to remember that she's doing it in the

context of mental illness; the semblance of sanity is just another tool for

getting what she wants.

>

> So I just got off the phone with my mother, and the worst part of it was that

she wasn't acting manipulative or mean or crazy. She was really reasonable and

normal. I absolutely HATE those kinds of conversations! I wish she would just

act like somebody who I'm justified in cutting out of my life. When she doesn't,

when she goes all maternal and martyr-esque on me, I feel like the world's most

ungrateful daughter. I feel like maybe *I'm* the one with BPD instead of her!

Anybody else ever have a similar experience with their BPD parent?

>

> It's almost to the point where I don't want to be around her because the times

when she acts like a normal parent are WORSE than the times she acts angry,

selfish, manipulative, or abusive. At least then I know what I'm dealing with

and I can resist. How do you resist a mother who's saying to you, " I just want

us to have a relationship " and " I've always loved you " , even if you remember

some of the horrible things that have happened in the past?

>

> As long as she's living, am I ever going to be okay?

>

> Psyclone47

>

[Guest guest]

my forgetful heart always softens and I feel the need to be with my mom...until

she disappoints me again. When will I learn reality?

Re: Martyr Mom

Dude. I just had one of these conversations the other day. My mom is especially

good at these because she was a single mom, and we were pretty poor when I was

growing up. Oh, the times I've heard, " I had to do whatever it took to get us

from Point A to Point B. " It's a like a broken record, for sure. Bear with me

while I relate this recent example.

Recently, Mom threw out another of her " tests, " involving me being somewhere I

didn't want to be to prove that I love her, saying that I " never go out of my

comfort zone for her, only for other people, " and that she is always going out

of her way for me. She spoke so calmly, without screaming or cursing, that I

started to feel like a giant pile of shit. Then she started to cry.

And then she started dissociating, describing things I'd never said to her and

events that had happened in an entirely different way than she remembers. And I

remembered, " That's right. She's crazy. "

I tried to think of something I'd asked her for since I was 17. Oh yeah, I asked

her to stop swearing at me/threatening me/calling me names when she was angry

and to be nice to my husband. The long and short of it is, she considers these

things to be above and beyond the requirements of a normal relationship, and

therefore, feels she is " going out of her way " for me.

Psyclone, when you wrote, " I wish she would just act like somebody who I'm

justified in cutting out of my life, " I started nodding vigorously at my

computer. Thing is, my mom, and I'm sure yours as well, has done many things

that anyone who was not her child would consider just grounds for giving her the

heave-ho. The difference with mine, at least, is that (and I'm chuckling as I

write this) she's only Really Abusive every once in a while. The rest of the

time, she's only manipulative, needy, untrustworthy, and slightly nuts.

One thing I've done that's really helped is writing down events and

conversations that we have. Then, when I'm not sure which of us actually has

BPD, I look over my writings and remember why I'm so damn confused and angry all

the time!

" As long as she's living, am I ever going to be okay? "

I wonder this often. I don't wish death on my mother, but I can't help feeling

that my life will get dramatically easier when she goes. When she's acting

" reasonable and normal, " I just try to remember that she's doing it in the

context of mental illness; the semblance of sanity is just another tool for

getting what she wants.

>

> So I just got off the phone with my mother, and the worst part of it was that

she wasn't acting manipulative or mean or crazy. She was really reasonable and

normal. I absolutely HATE those kinds of conversations! I wish she would just

act like somebody who I'm justified in cutting out of my life. When she doesn't,

when she goes all maternal and martyr-esque on me, I feel like the world's most

ungrateful daughter. I feel like maybe *I'm* the one with BPD instead of her!

Anybody else ever have a similar experience with their BPD parent?

>

> It's almost to the point where I don't want to be around her because the times

when she acts like a normal parent are WORSE than the times she acts angry,

selfish, manipulative, or abusive. At least then I know what I'm dealing with

and I can resist. How do you resist a mother who's saying to you, " I just want

us to have a relationship " and " I've always loved you " , even if you remember

some of the horrible things that have happened in the past?

>

> As long as she's living, am I ever going to be okay?

>

> Psyclone47

>

[Guest guest]

I know exactly how you feel. When they are being nice and what we see as

normal it is confusing, but it is part of the illness. you can only handle

so much and what you are able to handle might be less than others or more

than others. I at times feel like its my problem and I am the crazy one, but

take a second reflect and remember that there is no winning this battle. I

am estranged as well while it is my Mother IN law I believe in my situation

there has been more harm and pain than the good days and it makes it a bit

eaiser to handle. The mean hateful abuse the horrid lies is what I see.

People tell me apart of growing is forgiving. Honestly I am not there yet so

i can't advise you on this. I will never forget, I Will never remend. I

realized that If i kept her in my life my life would only be as miserable as

hers and it would be consumped with hers. I only get this one life, this one

shot at happiness and we need to do what makes us happy and in the end self

happiness and true growth within yourself is the only thing you can measure.

Would want a life full of regret? Hate? contemplating? Or happiness, good

memories, moving forward with your own life and being happy and doing what

you want. I still battle these questions everyday but in the end I have

found that my happiness and my sanity must come before hers.

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 2:02 PM, psyclone47@...

wrote:

>

>

> So I just got off the phone with my mother, and the worst part of it was

> that she wasn't acting manipulative or mean or crazy. She was really

> reasonable and normal. I absolutely HATE those kinds of conversations! I

> wish she would just act like somebody who I'm justified in cutting out of my

> life. When she doesn't, when she goes all maternal and martyr-esque on me, I

> feel like the world's most ungrateful daughter. I feel like maybe *I'm* the

> one with BPD instead of her! Anybody else ever have a similar experience

> with their BPD parent?

>

> It's almost to the point where I don't want to be around her because the

> times when she acts like a normal parent are WORSE than the times she acts

> angry, selfish, manipulative, or abusive. At least then I know what I'm

> dealing with and I can resist. How do you resist a mother who's saying to

> you, " I just want us to have a relationship " and " I've always loved you " ,

> even if you remember some of the horrible things that have happened in the

> past?

>

> As long as she's living, am I ever going to be okay?

>

> Psyclone47

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Denying reality is a very effective survival tool for helpless, dependent

children desperate for attention and affection.

If the dependent child can convince himself or herself that:

1. what is happening to me is OK, normal, and my mommy and/or daddy really loves

me,

OR

2. that I am actually very defective, unlovable, and deserve to be mistreated or

neglected

then that gives the child the ability to survive abuse.

The first response denies that the abuse even exists at all (Abuse? What abuse?)

and the second response is that even if we believe that the abuse is happening

because we deserve it, because we are bad and unlovable, still, it allows for

the possibility of change and improving ourselves so that we have the potential

to earn our parents' love.

Denial and dissociation keep reality at bay, and keep the child from committing

suicide out of complete despair and hopelessness.

When we can allow ourselves to safely experience reality, the real behaviors

from our parents the way they are really intended instead of coating the abusive

behaviors directed at us with a sugary explanation, then I think we can finally

begin to engage in setting healthy boundaries for ourselves and not buy into our

parents' familiar excuses and manipulations any longer.

That's my theory, anyway, to take or leave.

-Annie

>

> my forgetful heart always softens and I feel the need to be with my

mom...until she disappoints me again. When will I learn reality?

[Guest guest]

wow...so important...i will be thinking about this...i have always denied the

treatment i got...writing it off...feeling bad for her sad past...but the

reality was too harsh to believe. Very powerful...thank you.

Re: Martyr Mom

Denying reality is a very effective survival tool for helpless, dependent

children desperate for attention and affection.

If the dependent child can convince himself or herself that:

1. what is happening to me is OK, normal, and my mommy and/or daddy really loves

me,

OR

2. that I am actually very defective, unlovable, and deserve to be mistreated or

neglected

then that gives the child the ability to survive abuse.

The first response denies that the abuse even exists at all (Abuse? What abuse?)

and the second response is that even if we believe that the abuse is happening

because we deserve it, because we are bad and unlovable, still, it allows for

the possibility of change and improving ourselves so that we have the potential

to earn our parents' love.

Denial and dissociation keep reality at bay, and keep the child from committing

suicide out of complete despair and hopelessness.

When we can allow ourselves to safely experience reality, the real behaviors

from our parents the way they are really intended instead of coating the abusive

behaviors directed at us with a sugary explanation, then I think we can finally

begin to engage in setting healthy boundaries for ourselves and not buy into our

parents' familiar excuses and manipulations any longer.

That's my theory, anyway, to take or leave.

-Annie

>

> my forgetful heart always softens and I feel the need to be with my

mom...until she disappoints me again. When will I learn reality?

[Guest guest]

" my forgetful heart always softens and I feel the need to be with my mom...until

she disappoints me again. When will I learn reality? "

Amen, amen, AMEN!!!! That's exactly how I feel! I know sooner or later she's

going to put unreasonable demands on me, or start trashing my husband to me, or

try to tell me what to think and who to be. But I still have this image in my

head of what " mother " looks like, and I keep trying, hoping that if I can just

be a good (enough) girl, she'll match the ideal. It's terribly painful.

[Guest guest]

Annie, I think you're dead-on. Thanks to my mindfulness practice, I'm starting

to be able to see that in myself. I'm all about taking the blame on myself to be

able to preserve my image of the other person as good.

Yesterday I explained to my husband, " I think part of the reason why I blame

myself for everything is a survival mechanism. I learned to think of every

disappointment somebody else suffers as BAD. I could've believed my mother was

BAD for the way she behaved towards me, but how scary is that, when the person

who basically has all the power in your life and all responsibility for taking

care of you is not okay? So I learned to take the punishment if something went

wrong and reconcile myself towards being blamed, because it meant that the

people in charge were still safe. "

Right now I'm really struggling with not letting it carry over into other areas

of my life. I have a tendency to blame myself for everything that goes wrong for

my husband . . . which is a lot, because he's a very fussy person with not much

tolerance for things not being just so. And when they're not just so and he gets

annoyed about it, I tend to put the blame on myself even though he's not blaming

me, even when it's quite frankly absurd to put the blame on myself. But I've

become a champion of twisted thought! Working on it.

Psyclone47

[Guest guest]

my aol email has been hacked after I gave Yahoo my password...be careful...never

give out your password.

I just changed my password...and now I am not receiving blog posts...anyone know

how i can do this without giving up my aol password?

Amy

[Guest guest]

This reminds me of those abusive wife-beater types who are always all sniffles

and remorse once their wife has a black eye or a broken arm.

Then they're right back to hitting her again...

This is what these nadas are like, repeated amnesia!

--.

*this post has been trimmed*

[Guest guest]

my other fear is that my mom is completely normal and somehow I've imagined this

abuse as worse than it really was and I'm punishing her for no reason...but I

know, that this was all true. It's just my defense mechanisms talking and

protecting me from all this bad stuff that seems inconceivable.

Re: Martyr Mom

This reminds me of those abusive wife-beater types who are always all sniffles

and remorse once their wife has a black eye or a broken arm.

Then they're right back to hitting her again...

This is what these nadas are like, repeated amnesia!

--.

*this post has been trimmed*

[Guest guest]

Barrycove, I struggle with same doubts too. I have seen a few therapists and

every single one of them agreed that my nada likely had BPD or NPD. If you

haven't talked about this stuff with a therapist yet you should consider it if

only to get that validation...and hey sometimes I hear you find one that can

really help.

>

> my other fear is that my mom is completely normal and somehow I've imagined

this abuse as worse than it really was and I'm punishing her for no reason...but

I know, that this was all true. It's just my defense mechanisms talking and

protecting me from all this bad stuff that seems inconceivable.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Re: Martyr Mom

>

>

>

>

>

> This reminds me of those abusive wife-beater types who are always all sniffles

and remorse once their wife has a black eye or a broken arm.

>

> Then they're right back to hitting her again...

>

> This is what these nadas are like, repeated amnesia!

>

> --.

>

> *this post has been trimmed*

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah - just want to put in another " me too "

Hate it when she acts normal - totally freaks me out. It makes me wonder if I

made it all up. I also constantly struggle with trying to understand how it

could have been so horrible and no one else saw, no one protected me. I find

myself trying to find teachers, cousins, anyone from my past who was there who

can corroborate my experience. That's how much I don't believe my own memories

and feelings, and I'm so worried that I'm being BPD myself, painting her all

black.

I have yet to get real evidence from anyone else by the way. It's still my word

against hers. I know that she thinks I'm the crazy one.

Not sure if this is a helpful comment. I just felt 'me too' while reading some

of the posts on this thread.

tre

[Guest guest]

" my other fear is that my mom is completely normal and somehow I've imagined

this abuse as worse than it really was and I'm punishing her for no reason...but

I know, that this was all true. It's just my defense mechanisms talking and

protecting me from all this bad stuff that seems inconceivable. "

This is the way I was, for years and years and YEARS.

I wasn't able to stop thinking like this until there was such incontrovertible

proof that she really wasn't remembering things the way they actually happened

(and yeah, it helped that my husband was there to see this, too.)

--

*this post has been trimmed*