Re: Iodine as a fever reducer

[Guest guest]

Is oxalate ever good?Well, I believe sometime in December, I think after my son had his most recent febrile seizure episode, the folks in my house got a stomach bug. Me, hubby, daughter... mom who lives next door, and my dad... somehow he missed it. Now, I sleep in this kids bed. No way he wasn't exposed to whatever we had.

So somehow I am guessing he was dumping at the time (what with the fever, seizure, aggression at school) and just never developed the tummy flu.Not sure why at all! Can you return to eating normally?Well, the same way you " can " return to eating gluten and casein after you've healed the leaky gut. (Do you want to risk re-injury?) It seems a lot of people on the LOD list feel like why would you want to eat it anyway? I do miss beans and chocolate, however! LOL And nuts, a bit.

 

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This post really got me thinking. Very nice explanation.

I think you tied things in my mind! Which made me have more questions.

The iodine oxalate connection. Very fascinating. Have never seen it put so eloquently. Or understandable! I had to think and read more before i could ask more.

If i understand correctly a low oxalate diet allows what iodine the body has work more efficiently. Thats the simple version. Similiar to how i have learned about how goitrogens effect iodine availablity.

The foods seems to cross in some aspects, with some known goitrogen foods on low oxalate lists. But some considered low goitrogen on the high oxalate so dont know how it compares that much. I dont even pretend to know all the oxalate foods, or goitrogens (yet), i have to learn more! I have learned alot since your post tho cause it sparked so many connections and questions.

It's like i can now see the process of iodine, which i thought was happening, but didnt know the actual mechanics. And sulfa. And Oxalate. It seems to me oxalate also displaces iodine from cells, like other halides. And it effects enzyme cofactors. Something i think alot of us and our kids share.

Which leads me to ask is oxalate ever good?

Are you finding lots of people are having the oxalate issue? Not just in the autism community?

It seems to be my conclusion that the Low Oxalate diet has created better iodine utilization. You are seeing lots of improvement in many areas. Improvement Similiar to those on the iodine and thyroid boards are seeing with iodine supplementation and/or avoiding goitrogenic foods.

So it seems safe to conclude that both the diet and the supplementation/avoiding goitrogens seem to help the utilization of iodine. Correct me if i am wrong!

Are there any doing the low oxalate diet also using iodine? Have you seen more improvement when both are done (if you have). Less?

Is there a specific known reason some bodies cant get rid of oxalates? That might be an easy question to google but figure you would know best.

Does a low oxalate diet eventually correct the problem and then a regular diet can be eaten? (Wondering if by creating better utilization eventually corrects the problem as seen with the iodine people).

Is it just the lowering of oxalate foods that bring the elimination of symptoms or also improved overall nutrition with both food and supplements?

Do you think oxalate is basically a halide?

So many questions! Hope you dont mind :-)

Cheryl

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> Can I try and tie these things together? You may not know this, but iodine is another one of the ions that moves across the cell membrane using a sulfate/oxalate exchanger.

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> This class of transporters give signals that regulate the cystic fibrosis transporter. This CFTR transporter regulates fluid secretion in the gut and in the mucus membranes (and pretty much every secretory organ including the kidneys).

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> So unexpectedly high or low levels of sulfate, iodine or oxalate may change the regulation of the cystic fibrosis transporter, but indirectly. When the cystic fibrosis transporter function is entirely lost (as in the disease by the same name), the lungs have very gunky, globby mucus because the mucus is low in fluid, and that makes it more easily infected.

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> In this area, an avalanche of brand new basic science research in the last three years has completely changed how scientists understand the regulation of fluid and pH,and how cells of the gut and lungs protect themselves from infection. The DAN! doctors don't know this new material yet, but they will soon, hopefully!

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> So, , the way these transporters work, it makes sense why adding in higher levels of iodine might cause nasal drip, because it might change how much fluid is crossing at the cystic fibrosis transporter.

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> The shared use of the same ion transporter may be telling us that high oxalate diets would alter the absorption of iodine. It is all an issue of quantity on each side of the cell membrane, and how things are regulated together.

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> People with cystic fibrosis are also very prone to infection because the missing CFTR transporter cuts off the transport of thiocyanate and glutathione into the mucus layer. Thiocyanate is being secreted there because it is quickly converted right outside the cell into an antimicrobial, which is the second reason those with CF get terrible lung infections and have bad guts, because their secretion of thiocyanate is impaired.

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> What does this have to do with autism?

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> Dr. Rosemary Waring about twelve years ago found that the thiocyanate was also extremely low in autism in urine. This suggests that abnormal function of the sulfate/oxalate exchanger may be creating the perfect breeding ground for dysbiosis that would only temporarily be helped by antibiotics or by other antimicrobials because the drugs can kill the bugs, but cannot solve the problem that got the bugs disordered in the first place.

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> This is the area of science that our project at ARI thinks explains why people reducing oxalate in the diet see the amazing improvements in dysbiosis and why many can finally get off the " anti-fungal parade " .

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> Anyway, , because these ions share transport, this is why something being physiologically low (like sulfate or iodine) while something else is physiologically higher than expected (like oxalate) would change the regulation of fluid in the gut, the kidneys and the lungs.

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> But lets talk about the bedwetting. When the body is detoxifying oxalate, some boys will have accidents again at night until the dump is over. We've found that after the body detoxifies from stored oxalate over time, it is very common for those who weren't potty trained before to become potty trained. We've even seen older children develop urinary control including stopping bedwetting.

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> What about the fever? We sometimes see very high fevers accompanying dumping on our listserve. We don't yet understand WHY this happens, but we also often have parents saying their kids seem better while it is going on. Nighttime fevers can be a sign of a dysregulation that DAN! doctor and thiamine expert, Derrick Lonsdale, has reported happening in children that is treated with thiamine. (see below) Thiamine deficiency increases the body making its own oxalate because of impairing the mitochondrial enzyme, alpha ketoglutarate:glyoxylate carboligase.

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> You might find taking thiamine would help the fever. I hadn't thought about this until now!

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> The body has a " set point " that measures blood oxalate levels (not urinary levels which might not " match " ). When oxalate in blood gets too high, if things are working right, it causes the body to turn on oxalate protective mechanisms which are what may induce a dump. You don't have to be low oxalate for that to happen, because the " switch " doesn't care WHERE the oxalate came from.

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> When you are eating high oxalate, the oxalate you are dumping may have come recently from your diet. When your diet is low in oxalate, the increases of blood oxalate only happen when the cells of the body start to clear oxalate, releasing oxalate to the blood for disposal.

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> Sometimes, these levels of freed oxalate can be extraordinarily high, and until the oxalate clears during the dump, there are symptoms it brings on, but as soon as it is cleared, if that was the only source of oxalate, then you see the improvements.

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> I hope this explains why these things might happen together. For more info, or just to talk about these issues with experienced moms and dads who have seen the same sorts of things in their children, join the support group (Trying_Low_Oxalates ) that is linked to our website at lowoxalate.info. It now has more than 3500 members.

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> lowoxalate.info

> Head of the Autism Oxalate Project at ARI

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> PS. Years ago, a child in our neighborhood had very high night fevers and slowly started to go blind. She was put in the hospital, but I sent her doctors there papers talking about the relationship of thiamine deficiency to this sort of blindness that she described as a big black hole in her central vision that got bigger and bigger until her vision was gone. The doctors gave her IV thiamine in the hospital, but it didn't change things. I thought it might not because there were genetic reasons in her family that might come from a thiamine transport defect. When she got home, her dad gave her TTFD, and her blindness went away and fevers stopped. TTFD is a form of thiamine that crosses the cell membrane even when there is a thiamine transport problem, but it also crosses the blood brain barrier in a way that other forms of thiamine cannot. At any rate, it solved the problem quickly. She is now in high school and a very talented musician and actress!

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> Dev Pharmacol Ther. 1980;1(4):254-64.

> Recurrent febrile lymphadenopathy treated with large doses of vitamin B1: report of two cases.

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> Lonsdale D.

> Abstract

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> The 2 children whose cases are reported here both had recurrent episodes of fever and cervical lymphadenopathy. The conventional approach had been unsuccessful in identifying the cause or therapy. In neither case was there an infectious agent demonstrated, and biopsy of a pathologically enlarged lymph gland revealed only reactive hyperplasia in each case. Abnormal metabolism was revealed in the first patient by detecting a substance in urine which is reported to be diagnostic for a form of subacute necrotizing encephalomyelopathy. In the second case, red cell transketolase indicated thiamine pyrophosphate deficiency. Both children had elevated concentrations of folate and B12 in serum. Neither of the 2 patients had further episodes when given a clinical trial with large doses of thiamine hydrochloride. Recurrent episodes of febrile lymphadenopathy are extemely frequent in children and spontaneous resolution occurs, while in others there is either proven or assumed infection. Although final proof of therapeutic efficacy is lacking, the rapid improvement and maintenance of health in both children was striking after conventional therapy had failed.

-- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states.