Re: big success please congratulate me(2)--NC Slips

October 17, 2010

(Note: unplanned very long post follows, please feel free to skip if you're not

a fast reader!)

Hi Walked, I must thank you so much for saying this, because the timing is so

perfect today. I've had a severely dissociative day for the first time in many

months, if not years. I thought I was going to spend the day at a coffee house

working on a cool work project I've got going--instead I stayed in bed for 6

hours in a dissociative sleep-like stupor, and had nightmares about nada &

NP-Dad ('fada').

The reason, was that I allowed a few two-way emails with both parents in the

start of this month. On top of all the other pressures in my life, it spiraled

my fear/anxiety so far out of control, that my body couldn't cope, and I

dissociated. When I am completely NC, there is a good deal of pain in my life,

but also a good deal of happiness, and I find that with some work and self-care,

I can handle even the very extreme situation that I now often find myself in.

(And the whole country is in, really). But, add ANY contact to that mix, even

email, with the Cluster Bs, and I am toast. Still. SO. We've confirmed that.

Lovely. I recently had some great career successes, and I thought maybe I might

be able to handle a couple of emails. But I was wrong.

I also need to vent here about my financial situation. I am in a ton of debt,

and for years nada and fada lured me into that debt, promising they would pay it

back, and pressuring me to get into it by refusing to pay for my life from

around age 15, yet pressuring me heavily to display some kindof 'luxury'

lifestyle. When I made the real break from them, I understood what had been

happening, and I immediately entered a credit counseling program and limited any

spending to a crazy-extreme extent. I mean, lost weight because I can't afford

enough FOOD extent. I am responsible, I have never been the type to miss

payments, and I am serious about paying this money back.

But it doesn't look that way to people. It looks like I took on an extreme and

irresponsible amount of debt. And it's true--I did make the charges. They are

in my name. And I did not have the income to pay them back without drastically

changing my lifestyle, and almost going under. I have many past due things

still at this moment, including my car registration, and I will not be caught up

and even reasonably comfortable until some time in early 2011--and that is only

assuming that I don't have any kind of cancer or health problem, as I am not yet

insured. My fada's abuse of choice was financial destruction, and I know in my

heart that I was truly lured into this by his abuse. He had me in this weird,

cultish, 'split' place where he posed as the real financial person in

charge--and, he was--but he was keeping me in a vulnerable and dangerous place,

not actually paying my bills or looking out for me, just buying me a luxury meal

or item every few months or so, and promising to pay off loans and school

tuition that he NEVER did, but kept me begging for. And he started this when I

was 15. In college and in grad school, I was a waitress just to pay for basics,

while he and nada drove luxury cars and lived an upper middle class lifestyle.

And my split good siblings wore mink coats and had country club memberships. I

was split bad; he held it out that if I 'behaved', I would get such treatment

too. Meanwhile, I zoned out, not able to comprehend that he was NOT caring for

me financially, he was NOT keeping track of my charging (he looked at the papers

to pretend he was), and I was in trouble, and would have to pay it back myself

some day.

Well I understand now that I have to pay it back. School,rent, clothes, all of

it. But what bothers me is how it looks to people. It looks as if I did

something really bad, really irresponsible. When in truth, I was trying to be

good. This is what my 'father' was pressuring me to do--on pain of violence

(for he was violent), on pain of excommunication from the family. But it

doesn't LOOK like that, and people don't understand why I am in such trouble

now. It feels very much like being wrongly accused of a crime I didn't commit.

It is very painful. It is embarrassing. My friends are SICK of hearing about

how poor I am. And I am sick of being terrified. I am inches, just one tiny

crisis, from having my credit picture permanently ruined; and if I have cancer

or another serious health condition right now, I AM going to die from it

prematurely, because there is no way I can afford health insurance for many,

many months. Ok maybe my priorities sound out of whack--maybe I need to look at

just getting rid of the debt program and getting health insurance and paying for

car repairs instead. I promise I will think about that. But what I mainly need

to say right now is, I am SICK of being scared for my life. I am sick of being

scared my car is unsafe, my this or that is past due, my health might be at

risk, I don't have enough to eat--I am almost caught up but NOT YET--I am sick

of being almost there. I am sick of having to interact in the professional

world and pretend like nothing is wrong, when I can't afford dry cleaning and I

am scared for my life every second. I am sick of my friends being so tapped out

on this that they can't listen to the story any more. I am sick of being SO

disenfranchised about it, because noone who did not have an NPD financially

destructive Dad could possibly get how a person could 'zone out' into school and

credit debt, but truly be a responsible person at heart; or believe that the Dad

would do it on purpose gleefully, waiting for the day when the real fire started

and the daughter was in pain and fear. (Which was a year ago, when NP-Dad cut

off any little extra bits of help to me whatsoever just as I had my last round

of final exams.)

Ok thanks everyone--I needed very much to rant and just express the terror.

Like I said my friends have been wonderful, but they listened to me for a whole

year and I've been set up with some extra work for quite awhile now, so they

don't get why I'm still in crisis. It's because my evil NP-Dad set up my

finances so that I would be. But that's something that only someone who has

severely 'shelved' with a Cluster B parent over the course of a lifetime could

possibly comprehend. I hope that just expressing all this fear and anxiety

publically to all of you will help me to stop dissociating now, and go about my

business more tonight.

Again--it is the contact with the parents that put me over the edge. The severe

pressure I actually am handling, and despite all I wrote I AM crawling out

slowly--but when you put contact with the people who created the situation into

the mix, I lose the ability to cope. The Complex PTSD kicks in, hard. It was a

hard day! A really hard day. NO more FOO emails. Thanks again, Walked.

--ChhC

> > >

> > > I did it. I visited the FOO, to meet my nieces. I achieved that

expectation. Good thing I kept the expectation low.

> > > It was so sad, I am sad, but I know that I have overcome my fears and

anger, and a lot of stuff. It's been 5 years.

> > > I also have let go of any other expectations. These people are stuck and

limited, adn that is all they will ever be. I am so sorry for them.

> > > It is realy sad.

> > > but it was worth it, to meet my nieces.

> > >

> > > I spent about three hours over at their house, and I IGNORED nada, pretty

easy to do, bc she makes no sense when she talks. I gave her the " you don't

exist " treatment she gave me all my childhood. Works pretty well, but I have

worked a long time to get to where I am psychologically, that she can't pull any

flying monkeys or tricks on me anymore. It's just, I had conversations with

others, adn she is so inappropriate; its' easy to ignore her when she interrupts

with irrelevant and childish statements that make no sense.

> > >

> > > I stay FAR AWAY, and I have STRONG BOUNDARIES. I had a car, so I left as

soon as it got uncomfortable.

> > > I also gave up any expectations of rescuing my nieces. '[

> > > I have to thank the difficult BPD boss at work that i have, the exposure

therapy has worked, but I have to say, I've been treated by a T the whole time.

" Do not attempt this at home alone "

> > > and posted here under different names.

> > > Thank you all. for your support and the healing that has happened in this

group.

> > > This can be done, I just did it. It was wierd, because they were really

manic, and I felt so sad inside. I just stayed really calm, the calm in the

center of the storm. I am so sad for all teh FOO, that this is what their lives

are. Others have told me, maybe they are happy. I doubt it. I do know, it's

no longer my problem. THey are no longer the center of my life. My problem now

is my own happiness and my own life and my own problems.

> > > too bad my FOO couldn't be different, but that is how they are. IT still

makes me REALLY sad, but I can aknowledge that and that is the best I can do.

> > > I am NOW SAFE.

> > > I AM SAFE, in that I have grown strong in my own mind, and nada can't

touch my mind now.

> > > I know you understand what i mean. Nadas function through mind games. She

can't touch me now.

> > >

> > > I am

> > > WALKED TO HAPPINESS

> > >

> >

>

October 18, 2010

Charlie, can I just tell you - I don't think you need to agree to accept the

shame you feel. I doubt people are judging you so harshly. If they are, tell

them to eff off. Freak, if people don't understand debt and not being able

to afford things in this economy, they are idiots. As far as getting into

debt, you are in good company - what 60 or 80 percent of Americans are. Good

for you for working so hard to get out if it. If I were you, I'd try looking

at what I had acheived financailly with my program, focus on the strides.

Dude, being out of debt by 2011, that is something to celebrate!!!!! Who can

say that? Good girl. Screw shame and celebrate your acheivments!

On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 5:41 PM, charlottehoneychurch <

charlottehoneychurch@...> wrote:

>

> (Note: unplanned very long post follows, please feel free to skip if you're

> not a fast reader!)

>

> Hi Walked, I must thank you so much for saying this, because the timing is

> so perfect today. I've had a severely dissociative day for the first time in

> many months, if not years. I thought I was going to spend the day at a

> coffee house working on a cool work project I've got going--instead I stayed

> in bed for 6 hours in a dissociative sleep-like stupor, and had nightmares

> about nada & NP-Dad ('fada').

>

> The reason, was that I allowed a few two-way emails with both parents in

> the start of this month. On top of all the other pressures in my life, it

> spiraled my fear/anxiety so far out of control, that my body couldn't cope,

> and I dissociated. When I am completely NC, there is a good deal of pain in

> my life, but also a good deal of happiness, and I find that with some work

> and self-care, I can handle even the very extreme situation that I now often

> find myself in. (And the whole country is in, really). But, add ANY contact

> to that mix, even email, with the Cluster Bs, and I am toast. Still. SO.

> We've confirmed that. Lovely. I recently had some great career successes,

> and I thought maybe I might be able to handle a couple of emails. But I was

> wrong.

>

> I also need to vent here about my financial situation. I am in a ton of

> debt, and for years nada and fada lured me into that debt, promising they

> would pay it back, and pressuring me to get into it by refusing to pay for

> my life from around age 15, yet pressuring me heavily to display some kindof

> 'luxury' lifestyle. When I made the real break from them, I understood what

> had been happening, and I immediately entered a credit counseling program

> and limited any spending to a crazy-extreme extent. I mean, lost weight

> because I can't afford enough FOOD extent. I am responsible, I have never

> been the type to miss payments, and I am serious about paying this money

> back.

>

> But it doesn't look that way to people. It looks like I took on an extreme

> and irresponsible amount of debt. And it's true--I did make the charges.

> They are in my name. And I did not have the income to pay them back without

> drastically changing my lifestyle, and almost going under. I have many past

> due things still at this moment, including my car registration, and I will

> not be caught up and even reasonably comfortable until some time in early

> 2011--and that is only assuming that I don't have any kind of cancer or

> health problem, as I am not yet insured. My fada's abuse of choice was

> financial destruction, and I know in my heart that I was truly lured into

> this by his abuse. He had me in this weird, cultish, 'split' place where he

> posed as the real financial person in charge--and, he was--but he was

> keeping me in a vulnerable and dangerous place, not actually paying my bills

> or looking out for me, just buying me a luxury meal or item every few months

> or so, and promising to pay off loans and school tuition that he NEVER did,

> but kept me begging for. And he started this when I was 15. In college and

> in grad school, I was a waitress just to pay for basics, while he and nada

> drove luxury cars and lived an upper middle class lifestyle. And my split

> good siblings wore mink coats and had country club memberships. I was split

> bad; he held it out that if I 'behaved', I would get such treatment too.

> Meanwhile, I zoned out, not able to comprehend that he was NOT caring for me

> financially, he was NOT keeping track of my charging (he looked at the

> papers to pretend he was), and I was in trouble, and would have to pay it

> back myself some day.

>

> Well I understand now that I have to pay it back. School,rent, clothes, all

> of it. But what bothers me is how it looks to people. It looks as if I did

> something really bad, really irresponsible. When in truth, I was trying to

> be good. This is what my 'father' was pressuring me to do--on pain of

> violence (for he was violent), on pain of excommunication from the family.

> But it doesn't LOOK like that, and people don't understand why I am in such

> trouble now. It feels very much like being wrongly accused of a crime I

> didn't commit. It is very painful. It is embarrassing. My friends are SICK

> of hearing about how poor I am. And I am sick of being terrified. I am

> inches, just one tiny crisis, from having my credit picture permanently

> ruined; and if I have cancer or another serious health condition right now,

> I AM going to die from it prematurely, because there is no way I can afford

> health insurance for many, many months. Ok maybe my priorities sound out of

> whack--maybe I need to look at just getting rid of the debt program and

> getting health insurance and paying for car repairs instead. I promise I

> will think about that. But what I mainly need to say right now is, I am SICK

> of being scared for my life. I am sick of being scared my car is unsafe, my

> this or that is past due, my health might be at risk, I don't have enough to

> eat--I am almost caught up but NOT YET--I am sick of being almost there. I

> am sick of having to interact in the professional world and pretend like

> nothing is wrong, when I can't afford dry cleaning and I am scared for my

> life every second. I am sick of my friends being so tapped out on this that

> they can't listen to the story any more. I am sick of being SO

> disenfranchised about it, because noone who did not have an NPD financially

> destructive Dad could possibly get how a person could 'zone out' into school

> and credit debt, but truly be a responsible person at heart; or believe that

> the Dad would do it on purpose gleefully, waiting for the day when the real

> fire started and the daughter was in pain and fear. (Which was a year ago,

> when NP-Dad cut off any little extra bits of help to me whatsoever just as I

> had my last round of final exams.)

>

> Ok thanks everyone--I needed very much to rant and just express the terror.

> Like I said my friends have been wonderful, but they listened to me for a

> whole year and I've been set up with some extra work for quite awhile now,

> so they don't get why I'm still in crisis. It's because my evil NP-Dad set

> up my finances so that I would be. But that's something that only someone

> who has severely 'shelved' with a Cluster B parent over the course of a

> lifetime could possibly comprehend. I hope that just expressing all this

> fear and anxiety publically to all of you will help me to stop dissociating

> now, and go about my business more tonight.

>

> Again--it is the contact with the parents that put me over the edge. The

> severe pressure I actually am handling, and despite all I wrote I AM

> crawling out slowly--but when you put contact with the people who created

> the situation into the mix, I lose the ability to cope. The Complex PTSD

> kicks in, hard. It was a hard day! A really hard day. NO more FOO emails.

> Thanks again, Walked.

>

> --ChhC

>

> > > >

> > > > I did it. I visited the FOO, to meet my nieces. I achieved that

> expectation. Good thing I kept the expectation low.

> > > > It was so sad, I am sad, but I know that I have overcome my fears and

> anger, and a lot of stuff. It's been 5 years.

> > > > I also have let go of any other expectations. These people are stuck

> and limited, adn that is all they will ever be. I am so sorry for them.

> > > > It is realy sad.

> > > > but it was worth it, to meet my nieces.

> > > >

> > > > I spent about three hours over at their house, and I IGNORED nada,

> pretty easy to do, bc she makes no sense when she talks. I gave her the " you

> don't exist " treatment she gave me all my childhood. Works pretty well, but

> I have worked a long time to get to where I am psychologically, that she

> can't pull any flying monkeys or tricks on me anymore. It's just, I had

> conversations with others, adn she is so inappropriate; its' easy to ignore

> her when she interrupts with irrelevant and childish statements that make no

> sense.

> > > >

> > > > I stay FAR AWAY, and I have STRONG BOUNDARIES. I had a car, so I left

> as soon as it got uncomfortable.

> > > > I also gave up any expectations of rescuing my nieces. '[

> > > > I have to thank the difficult BPD boss at work that i have, the

> exposure therapy has worked, but I have to say, I've been treated by a T the

> whole time. " Do not attempt this at home alone "

> > > > and posted here under different names.

> > > > Thank you all. for your support and the healing that has happened in

> this group.

> > > > This can be done, I just did it. It was wierd, because they were

> really manic, and I felt so sad inside. I just stayed really calm, the calm

> in the center of the storm. I am so sad for all teh FOO, that this is what

> their lives are. Others have told me, maybe they are happy. I doubt it. I do

> know, it's no longer my problem. THey are no longer the center of my life.

> My problem now is my own happiness and my own life and my own problems.

> > > > too bad my FOO couldn't be different, but that is how they are. IT

> still makes me REALLY sad, but I can aknowledge that and that is the best I

> can do.

> > > > I am NOW SAFE.

> > > > I AM SAFE, in that I have grown strong in my own mind, and nada can't

> touch my mind now.

> > > > I know you understand what i mean. Nadas function through mind games.

> She can't touch me now.

> > > >

> > > > I am

> > > > WALKED TO HAPPINESS

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

October 18, 2010

Hello,

My situation with debt is very different but I still completely understand

what you mean and feel. My nada was/is a compulsive gambler and never put

the money needed into thing that I wanted/needed. During my teenage years

my grandparents bailed her out often and made sure I had clothes and money

for school activities so that I didn't always have to miss out.

After they passed I had no one to assist me financially. I was 18 and

living with nada in a horrible and dangerous neighborhood. I knew I needed

to get out of that situation but was only making minimum wage. Then, the

debt began. Shortly after getting my first credit card there was a shooting

fifty feet from her house. I used the card for money for a deposit and to

get started in an apartment.

I frequently had to use the card to make ends meet. Before I knew it I had

$4,000 on the card. Similar things came up over the years. Getting

married, buying a house, and having children. Now, I am very happy and

settled in life but I am carrying about $20,000 debt.

I am not in crisis with the debt but I often resent the fact that I do not

have disposable income for things I want due to paying off the debt. I get

the negative comments from friends and such accusing me of being in debt by

my own irresponsibility. In reality, the debt is from rent/utilities, our

wedding(which was far from expensive/elaborate), the closing on the house,

and hospital bills when my daughters were born (and of course 7 years of

interest ect).

I feel like I am living a more responsible life than most my age but when I

cannot afford a night out or designer clothing I get criticized for " being

irresponsible " when all I ever did was to save myself.

--

" By definition, madness ends in one of two ways: clarity...or death. "

-- *Frantic

Purification*

October 19, 2010

Charlie,

I read your post, all of it, and I just want to reply quickly because today is a

busy day, but I will write more later when I get a chance.

I just want to say that debt for education is ok debt, there are different kinds

of debt. There's all kinds of advice out there, personally I like Suze Orman,

she has a lot of books, and she has a list of priorities: People First, then

Money, then Things.

So, take care of yourself (your emotional and health) well-being first.

I understand you are scared, and that is normal, given what you have been

through. It sounds truly awful. I just want to address what I hear as a major

fear of yours: that you might get sick and have no way to care for yourself. I

know this sounds like a last resort, but just know that if you were to really

get sick, you can go to a hospital emergency room and they are obligated to care

for you; even if you don't have insurance. I'm not saying you will need to do

this, I just want to alleviate your fear a little bit. Sometimes it helps to

think about the absolute real worst case scenario, and realize we can handle it.

In terms of the PTSD and dissociating, are you in T? Are you adressing these

with someone who can help, to alleviate these horrible painful circumstances you

are in?

Also, I think it is really clear that your FOO is not the answer to get yourself

out of your situation. I suggest finding other people to turn to, and it sounds

like you are able to nurture and be gentle with yourself, which is a huge

success.

All of us suffer emotional setbacks, and that is all this is. Your email

exchange was only an emotional setback. It seems like for every two steps

forward, we have to take a step back, we are just human. All of us.

But, YOU are in control now. As an adult, you can choose to block their emails

as SPAM, or even change your email address. Or just not answer for a week, if

you want.

YOU control your boundaries now.

I found when I went through NC, that learning that I had control of my own

boundaries was really hard to learn, and I had to go through some difficult

painful situations with other people crossing my boundaires to learn where my

own boundaries are... because I had never known them before. Please be really

careful and gently with yourself.

I will write more, when I get a chance.

HUGS

Walked.

> > > >

> > > > I did it. I visited the FOO, to meet my nieces. I achieved that

expectation. Good thing I kept the expectation low.

> > > > It was so sad, I am sad, but I know that I have overcome my fears and

anger, and a lot of stuff. It's been 5 years.

> > > > I also have let go of any other expectations. These people are stuck

and limited, adn that is all they will ever be. I am so sorry for them.

> > > > It is realy sad.

> > > > but it was worth it, to meet my nieces.

> > > >

> > > > I spent about three hours over at their house, and I IGNORED nada,

pretty easy to do, bc she makes no sense when she talks. I gave her the " you

don't exist " treatment she gave me all my childhood. Works pretty well, but I

have worked a long time to get to where I am psychologically, that she can't

pull any flying monkeys or tricks on me anymore. It's just, I had conversations

with others, adn she is so inappropriate; its' easy to ignore her when she

interrupts with irrelevant and childish statements that make no sense.

> > > >

> > > > I stay FAR AWAY, and I have STRONG BOUNDARIES. I had a car, so I left

as soon as it got uncomfortable.

> > > > I also gave up any expectations of rescuing my nieces. '[

> > > > I have to thank the difficult BPD boss at work that i have, the exposure

therapy has worked, but I have to say, I've been treated by a T the whole time.

" Do not attempt this at home alone "

> > > > and posted here under different names.

> > > > Thank you all. for your support and the healing that has happened in

this group.

> > > > This can be done, I just did it. It was wierd, because they were really

manic, and I felt so sad inside. I just stayed really calm, the calm in the

center of the storm. I am so sad for all teh FOO, that this is what their lives

are. Others have told me, maybe they are happy. I doubt it. I do know, it's

no longer my problem. THey are no longer the center of my life. My problem now

is my own happiness and my own life and my own problems.

> > > > too bad my FOO couldn't be different, but that is how they are. IT still

makes me REALLY sad, but I can aknowledge that and that is the best I can do.

> > > > I am NOW SAFE.

> > > > I AM SAFE, in that I have grown strong in my own mind, and nada can't

touch my mind now.

> > > > I know you understand what i mean. Nadas function through mind games.

She can't touch me now.

> > > >

> > > > I am

> > > > WALKED TO HAPPINESS

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

October 19, 2010

Love Suze Orman's books!

On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 1:57 PM, walkingto_happiness <

walkingto_happiness@...> wrote:

>

> Charlie,

> I read your post, all of it, and I just want to reply quickly because today

> is a busy day, but I will write more later when I get a chance.

> I just want to say that debt for education is ok debt, there are different

> kinds of debt. There's all kinds of advice out there, personally I like Suze

> Orman, she has a lot of books, and she has a list of priorities: People

> First, then Money, then Things.

> So, take care of yourself (your emotional and health) well-being first.

> I understand you are scared, and that is normal, given what you have been

> through. It sounds truly awful. I just want to address what I hear as a

> major fear of yours: that you might get sick and have no way to care for

> yourself. I know this sounds like a last resort, but just know that if you

> were to really get sick, you can go to a hospital emergency room and they

> are obligated to care for you; even if you don't have insurance. I'm not

> saying you will need to do this, I just want to alleviate your fear a little

> bit. Sometimes it helps to think about the absolute real worst case

> scenario, and realize we can handle it.

>

> In terms of the PTSD and dissociating, are you in T? Are you adressing

> these with someone who can help, to alleviate these horrible painful

> circumstances you are in?

>

> Also, I think it is really clear that your FOO is not the answer to get

> yourself out of your situation. I suggest finding other people to turn to,

> and it sounds like you are able to nurture and be gentle with yourself,

> which is a huge success.

>

> All of us suffer emotional setbacks, and that is all this is. Your email

> exchange was only an emotional setback. It seems like for every two steps

> forward, we have to take a step back, we are just human. All of us.

> But, YOU are in control now. As an adult, you can choose to block their

> emails as SPAM, or even change your email address. Or just not answer for a

> week, if you want.

> YOU control your boundaries now.

>

> I found when I went through NC, that learning that I had control of my own

> boundaries was really hard to learn, and I had to go through some difficult

> painful situations with other people crossing my boundaires to learn where

> my own boundaries are... because I had never known them before. Please be

> really careful and gently with yourself.

>

> I will write more, when I get a chance.

> HUGS

> Walked.

>

> > > > >

> > > > > I did it. I visited the FOO, to meet my nieces. I achieved that

> expectation. Good thing I kept the expectation low.

> > > > > It was so sad, I am sad, but I know that I have overcome my fears

> and anger, and a lot of stuff. It's been 5 years.

> > > > > I also have let go of any other expectations. These people are

> stuck and limited, adn that is all they will ever be. I am so sorry for

> them.

> > > > > It is realy sad.

> > > > > but it was worth it, to meet my nieces.

> > > > >

> > > > > I spent about three hours over at their house, and I IGNORED nada,

> pretty easy to do, bc she makes no sense when she talks. I gave her the " you

> don't exist " treatment she gave me all my childhood. Works pretty well, but

> I have worked a long time to get to where I am psychologically, that she

> can't pull any flying monkeys or tricks on me anymore. It's just, I had

> conversations with others, adn she is so inappropriate; its' easy to ignore

> her when she interrupts with irrelevant and childish statements that make no

> sense.

> > > > >

> > > > > I stay FAR AWAY, and I have STRONG BOUNDARIES. I had a car, so I

> left as soon as it got uncomfortable.

> > > > > I also gave up any expectations of rescuing my nieces. '[

> > > > > I have to thank the difficult BPD boss at work that i have, the

> exposure therapy has worked, but I have to say, I've been treated by a T the

> whole time. " Do not attempt this at home alone "

> > > > > and posted here under different names.

> > > > > Thank you all. for your support and the healing that has happened

> in this group.

> > > > > This can be done, I just did it. It was wierd, because they were

> really manic, and I felt so sad inside. I just stayed really calm, the calm

> in the center of the storm. I am so sad for all teh FOO, that this is what

> their lives are. Others have told me, maybe they are happy. I doubt it. I do

> know, it's no longer my problem. THey are no longer the center of my life.

> My problem now is my own happiness and my own life and my own problems.

> > > > > too bad my FOO couldn't be different, but that is how they are. IT

> still makes me REALLY sad, but I can aknowledge that and that is the best I

> can do.

> > > > > I am NOW SAFE.

> > > > > I AM SAFE, in that I have grown strong in my own mind, and nada

> can't touch my mind now.

> > > > > I know you understand what i mean. Nadas function through mind

> games. She can't touch me now.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am

> > > > > WALKED TO HAPPINESS

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

October 20, 2010

Chhc:

I completely hear you. Totally. I grok it in fullness.

In my situation, I have had to stay in work that doesn't fit me, that doesn't

feel good, that I really don't like and don't want to do anymore (read: WORK

CHOSEN BY THE FOO) in order just to keep barely abreast of the financial

obligations. In years gone by I, too, have felt absolutely terrified for my

life. Yeah, things are sort of hangin' in now, but if anything like cancer

really happened, oh, well. And forget anything like living indoors or having

food to eat once I'm too old and sick to work. It's not going to happen. I

can't file bankruptcy because the bulk of the debt is student loans, and student

loans are not dischargable in bankruptcy.

I used to think, like children often do, that some great, brilliant, wonderful

success would happen, and all I'd have to do is hang on 'til then, and then:

presto chango! Debts would be paid, and I'd have the secure life and nest egg a

person really ought to have at my age. Plus some play pretties, like money to

repair the floor that's coming up and the tub that was put in wrong, and maybe

fix these age old windows and doors that let cold in in the winter and heat in

in the summer.

Now I understand that it will never happen. I did my best, and my best wasn't

good enough. At 42, the magnitude of the miracle straight from God that it will

take to save me is so huge that I know it isn't coming. One of these days I

will be extremely, extremely sick and financially destitute, or I will end up

not sick but just old and dirt, dirt, dirt poor. Those are the facts. And the

only way to get out of the work that I am trapped in is to just move into a

minivan right now and go homeless, because only the work I'm doing will pay

enough to keep me from being sued for nonpayment of student loans, etc. Before

I got married, I actually used to fantasize about doing this. Frying in the hot

summer and freezing in the winter didn't appeal, but the freedom to do what *I*,

and not someone else, wanted with *my* time...ahhh, the freedom, the freedom.

But then I got married, and now it's not an option at all. I guess I just

chickened out!

How do I deal with this? I guess I've just accepted it. I know that I will be

destitute some day and that's just my destiny. I've seen how enough really poor

and old people are living that I know what to expect. I know what's coming and

I know that's going to be my life, and I guess I've lived with that knowledge

for so long that I've just lost my fear of it. It will be different, but, like

everything else in life, it's just one more thing to be got through, and let's

face it, nobody in life is perfectly happy or comfortable. There's something in

everybody's life that's got them down. I just know now what mine is going to

be.

The fallacy is in thinking that you HAVE to live a comfortable life. Or that

you're SUPPOSED to, and when the time comes when you can't, YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO

STAND IT. The fact I've come in contact with is that God hasn't put me here to

enjoy comfortable, secure, or happy circumstances. He's put me here to have bad

ones, and *that's* the norm to be expected, not these nice places, a beautiful

body and youthful face, physical health, and financial security you see pictured

everywhere as the norm. Lots of people are very very poor, and they're holding

up just fine. And when the time comes that I can't hold onto my little

mortgaged house anymore, I will, too. I'm just borrowing the trappings of

middle class American life for as long as I can work and bring in money.

They're not mine, and I shouldn't expect to keep them, nor be angry or all torn

apart when they're taken away. We're not even guaranteed life; the one

certainty about it is that no one gets out alive.

There's no point panicking anymore; it's going to be the way it's going to be,

and I can either find what's good about it and be OK with it, or I can drive

myself into a heart attack over it. Won't change the external circumstances in

the least.

At least, when I'm in some dumpy state nursing home (that is, if they even have

Medicare or Medicaid in 20 years--the way the Tea Party is going there won't be

any social programs left at all then), I'll have the freedom of my own mind and

my own time. I may not be in choice surroundings, but I won't be trapped

anymore in work I don't like and don't want to do, taking care of things I don't

want to take care of. Chances are I'll be able to find a pen and a piece of

paper to write on, and that's all I really want.

If you can be out of debt in 2011, more power to you. By the time I'm out of

debt, I'll be dead or very close to it.

To everybody else:

Please notice that I have trimmed this post, and you don't have to scroll

through four more v-e-r-y long messages you have already seen five times to get

to the next one. I know reminders keep showing up. Please, please, can we trim

our posts? I had to scroll through soooo many old posts trying to read this one

I'm replying to that it really, really got annoying.

Thanks.

--.

October 21, 2010

Charlie,I just wanted to send you a (((HUG))) and to say that I understand about

the Complex PTSD dissociation--that comes over me too,still,when it's the LAST

thing I want or need.Your parents sound so very very toxic.Like you said,it's

nearly impossible to explain to someone who hasn't experienced it what that

level of gleefully malicious ill will IS--and that a *parent* would engage in

such behavior with the express intention of making their own child suffer.And

then when we are left to sort out the extremely difficult,extremely negative

consequences of our parents' destructiveness,people who don't *know* what that

is and what that does to us often don't understand--for me personally that

increases my sense of isolation and panic when the anxiety/fear is hitting

me--an anxiety/fear that is so multifacted and long standing that although I can

see it only too painfully clearly,it's not something that can be readily

explained to others.

Our sick parents put us in a place where *we* end up being negatively

judged for what were essentially *their* actions--other people fail to

appreciate that these actions were placed upon us as a burden and were not a

free will choice that *we* made.Someone said, " True freedom is choosing your own

burdens " --as the child of our parents even as teens and young adults we are

wanting to please our parents; to have their approval and acceptance...and in

our sick FOOs that belongingness can become a very very twisted game that does

NOT serve our best interests at all--when in truth we are,like you said, " trying

to be good " .We do not choose that burden,it is placed upon us by a society that

assumes our efforts to be " good " for our parents are for " good " reasons and

nobody warns us when our own parents are the exception--and tragically in our

cases when we have parents who are the antithesis of " good " ,we get sucked into

scenarios that actually do us down,that do us harm.You weren't " bad " or

" irresponsible " --you were overwhelmed by dysfunction that wasn't of your making

or of your choosing.Pain of excommunication from the family is the hideous

weapon our FOOs wield as they give us *their* dysfunction to bear on our own,a

truly insane and destructive double bind.

These people are *sick* and they superimpose their sickness onto us.We

grow up in isolation with that sickness and then later exist in the fallout from

it,period.Can I just affirm that you are not in this situation because *you* are

irresponsible!

I'm so sorry that you're suffering and will suffer a while more until you

can rectify the awful circumstances your FOO placed you in--you WILL get

yourself beyond it; you are already doing so.

No more FOO emails.Any contact with the FOO sends me spiralling as

well,even when I have managed to state my case or to be brave.My FOO is too

toxic,too inimical to my own well being.Our own healing *must* take precedence

now.

((((HUGS)))))

>

> >

> > (Note: unplanned very long post follows, please feel free to skip if you're

not a fast reader!)

> >

> > Hi Walked, I must thank you so much for saying this, because the timing is

so perfect today. I've had a severely dissociative day for the first time in

many months, if not years. I thought I was going to spend the day at a coffee

house working on a cool work project I've got going--instead I stayed in bed for

6 hours in a dissociative sleep-like stupor, and had nightmares about nada &

NP-Dad ('fada').

> >

> > The reason, was that I allowed a few two-way emails with both parents in the