Guest guest Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 I'm sorry. Please cut yourself some slack. I would venture to guess she hit a big trigger for your by saying what she did about your daughter's dress. Good for you for feeling so strong about protecting your daughter. If it would feel better, you could always still try to address it with your nada. One of my therapist always said that if something is still bothering you 24 hours after it happened, it is probably worth addressing with that person. I am sure I don't have to tell you that nada won't get it anyway but if it would make you feel better, it may be worth it to at least say your peace about it to your nada. patinage > > HI > > I just deleted a really long post. I really just have a question and don't want to write a novel for the background info. Shorter version: I am LC with nada. I manage boundaries. I tell her when she says something that is not ok. This has been working for years. > > BUT. Today she called my 18 month old daughter's dress ugly. (It's a flowery toddler dress, how ugly could it be? Really!) I froze up and felt angry inside. I didn't say anything. I can't believe I did this. I have gotten good at defending myself when she says hurtful things to me. But this was my daughter, who I would do anything to defend and protect. And I just sat there and let the monster who tore me apart as a child start the same shit with my kid. > > I'm obviously beating myself up over this. My toddler has no idea what was going on, but someday (soon) she'll understand that her grandma called her dress ugly, and she'll be hurt. I don't understand how I could just sit there and not defend my daughter. I totally froze up!!!! How do I make sure that I stand up to her the next time she insults my kid??? > > tre > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 I think it would be okay to tell her after the fact. Forgive yourself for freezing, it was probably the depth of your reaction to her inappropriate comment that caused you to react this way, the strength of your feeling probably overwhelmed you. But there is no statute of limitations on setting a boundary with her. I believe in repetition compulsion and I believe that some abuse that happened before children can speak or are articulate enough to express what happened to them can only be acted out or repeated. I tend to think that these folks who are trapped in toddler-hood sometimes are triggered by the presence of a toddler to 'act out' frozen memories that demonstrate how they were treated as children (I have seen this with my father an awful lot around my nephews...he either takes on the persona of my grandmother or my grandfather, his parents, with such precision it's very creepy, i can tell immediately which of his parents he is 'being' at the moment by his gestures and tone of voice...it's a very strange thing to watch and I wouldn't necessarily believe it if I had not seen it time and again). This is why it's important for you to put up a roadblock so that if she has the urge to do this again she will have the mental reference point that it is not okay, and it will not be tolerated. Because until you do so and there are consequences, she won't have awareness that it is wrong. Try to be gentle with the child within yourself that freezes up, it's possible you had an overwhelming emotional reaction because it brought up for you something you experienced as a small child from her as well, when you were incapable of responding, and she was enormous compared to you, and you were overwhelmed with fear and/or pain. You might have reverted back into your child self for a moment but now you are past it and you can deal with her as an adult. Many hugs, I know this is a very unsettling experience on several different levels. > > HI > > I just deleted a really long post. I really just have a question and don't want to write a novel for the background info. Shorter version: I am LC with nada. I manage boundaries. I tell her when she says something that is not ok. This has been working for years. > > BUT. Today she called my 18 month old daughter's dress ugly. (It's a flowery toddler dress, how ugly could it be? Really!) I froze up and felt angry inside. I didn't say anything. I can't believe I did this. I have gotten good at defending myself when she says hurtful things to me. But this was my daughter, who I would do anything to defend and protect. And I just sat there and let the monster who tore me apart as a child start the same shit with my kid. > > I'm obviously beating myself up over this. My toddler has no idea what was going on, but someday (soon) she'll understand that her grandma called her dress ugly, and she'll be hurt. I don't understand how I could just sit there and not defend my daughter. I totally froze up!!!! How do I make sure that I stand up to her the next time she insults my kid??? > > tre > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 You likely were comfortable with the current boundaries you had set with your mother. Now, she's pushed it again. They do that. Just like children do. AS a mother, I completely understand where you are coming from. I think in this situation, you need to let your mother know that if she wants to continue to have access to your daughter, she should think before she speaks. LET her know you have the power to stop those visits and what she said was innapropriate and you will not stand for it. Remember, we were more the parents to our own parents, so you need to enforce those boundaries and let her know that the extend to your child too. > > HI > > I just deleted a really long post. I really just have a question and don't want to write a novel for the background info. Shorter version: I am LC with nada. I manage boundaries. I tell her when she says something that is not ok. This has been working for years. > > BUT. Today she called my 18 month old daughter's dress ugly. (It's a flowery toddler dress, how ugly could it be? Really!) I froze up and felt angry inside. I didn't say anything. I can't believe I did this. I have gotten good at defending myself when she says hurtful things to me. But this was my daughter, who I would do anything to defend and protect. And I just sat there and let the monster who tore me apart as a child start the same shit with my kid. > > I'm obviously beating myself up over this. My toddler has no idea what was going on, but someday (soon) she'll understand that her grandma called her dress ugly, and she'll be hurt. I don't understand how I could just sit there and not defend my daughter. I totally froze up!!!! How do I make sure that I stand up to her the next time she insults my kid??? > > tre > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 Hi Thanks everyone - you've been helpful. I knew you would. I knew I was over-reacting, but I also knew that I had to listen to it. You all gave great support and put into words what I know to be true but wasn't able to articulate. I am not seeing a therapist at the moment, so I didn't know where to go with this and not just get brushed off as it being no big deal. I was thinking all night about how to bring it up with her. I know that I have to. I want to write a letter but I think face to face is better. She does better with short, coherent rules. " Think before you say something " is really one she needs to work on in general. I'll call her today. Wish me luck. tre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 Hi Joe Repitition Compulsion. Hmm - very interesting concept. It rings pretty darn true. If you could have met the woman who raised my mother - well calling a child ugly would have been a GOOD day. So yeah - I think this might be happening with her. Thanks for the insight tre > > > > HI > > > > I just deleted a really long post. I really just have a question and don't want to write a novel for the background info. Shorter version: I am LC with nada. I manage boundaries. I tell her when she says something that is not ok. This has been working for years. > > > > BUT. Today she called my 18 month old daughter's dress ugly. (It's a flowery toddler dress, how ugly could it be? Really!) I froze up and felt angry inside. I didn't say anything. I can't believe I did this. I have gotten good at defending myself when she says hurtful things to me. But this was my daughter, who I would do anything to defend and protect. And I just sat there and let the monster who tore me apart as a child start the same shit with my kid. > > > > I'm obviously beating myself up over this. My toddler has no idea what was going on, but someday (soon) she'll understand that her grandma called her dress ugly, and she'll be hurt. I don't understand how I could just sit there and not defend my daughter. I totally froze up!!!! How do I make sure that I stand up to her the next time she insults my kid??? > > > > tre > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 I don't want to rock the boat - but the little girl didn't pick her dress - right? So nada was attacking mom, not baby. Does that help reframe? > > > > Hi Joe > > Repitition Compulsion. Hmm - very interesting concept. It rings pretty darn > true. If you could have met the woman who raised my mother - well calling a > child ugly would have been a GOOD day. So yeah - I think this might be > happening with her. > > Thanks for the insight > > tre > > > > > > > > > HI > > > > > > I just deleted a really long post. I really just have a question and > don't want to write a novel for the background info. Shorter version: I am > LC with nada. I manage boundaries. I tell her when she says something that > is not ok. This has been working for years. > > > > > > BUT. Today she called my 18 month old daughter's dress ugly. (It's a > flowery toddler dress, how ugly could it be? Really!) I froze up and felt > angry inside. I didn't say anything. I can't believe I did this. I have > gotten good at defending myself when she says hurtful things to me. But this > was my daughter, who I would do anything to defend and protect. And I just > sat there and let the monster who tore me apart as a child start the same > shit with my kid. > > > > > > I'm obviously beating myself up over this. My toddler has no idea what > was going on, but someday (soon) she'll understand that her grandma called > her dress ugly, and she'll be hurt. I don't understand how I could just sit > there and not defend my daughter. I totally froze up!!!! How do I make sure > that I stand up to her the next time she insults my kid??? > > > > > > tre > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 Hi - actually - it was a bit longer than that. I put her in the dress because I thought she had bought it for her - it had been in the closet a few months waiting for her to grow into it. I told nada " Hey She's wearing the dress you bought her " to let her know that I knew she had given the child a gift and appreciated it. She said she didn't give her that dress. I said I was sure she had. She said no. OK - so this should be the end of it - maybe my memory was wrong, it happens. Not a big deal in a normal world. It was then that she said " I wouldn't buy that dress, it's ugly. " In that TONE. That diminishing belittling little tone of hers. It's almost never just the words, always the way they're said. So -yes, she was attacking me. But my thoughts are that a little kid would just think - 'grandma thinks my dress is ugly'... which morphs into..'grandma thinks I'm ugly' because that's how little kids think. I confess here. When I babysat as a teenager, one time I told the little girl I sat for that her toy glasses were ugly. She was so hurt she told her parents, and they never called me again. Of course I'm horrified at myself now and those parents did the right thing, thank god. But I was just repeating the behavior that I grew up with. (and have struggled to get out of myself every day of my life.) Anyway, no matter who she thinks she's attacking, the child won't be able to parse anything more than being hurt, and that's what I want to prevent. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 yeah - the more I think about this... I had started to get comfortable. To the point where I was saying " Hey - she hasn't done anything really bad or crazy in a while now " thinking maybe she had earned some more trust. But now that I think about it, the last couple times she's gotten some zingers in. She apologizes, but I think she's just learned that apologizing is a good way to get away with saying the zinger. I've got to lay down the law again about what is and is not ok to say. so exhausting. As if the toddler wasn't enough! > > > > HI > > > > I just deleted a really long post. I really just have a question and don't want to write a novel for the background info. Shorter version: I am LC with nada. I manage boundaries. I tell her when she says something that is not ok. This has been working for years. > > > > BUT. Today she called my 18 month old daughter's dress ugly. (It's a flowery toddler dress, how ugly could it be? Really!) I froze up and felt angry inside. I didn't say anything. I can't believe I did this. I have gotten good at defending myself when she says hurtful things to me. But this was my daughter, who I would do anything to defend and protect. And I just sat there and let the monster who tore me apart as a child start the same shit with my kid. > > > > I'm obviously beating myself up over this. My toddler has no idea what was going on, but someday (soon) she'll understand that her grandma called her dress ugly, and she'll be hurt. I don't understand how I could just sit there and not defend my daughter. I totally froze up!!!! How do I make sure that I stand up to her the next time she insults my kid??? > > > > tre > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 Hi tre3, I think your *awareness* of the dysfunctional dynamic will help you the next time this happens: your nada is being " passive-aggressive " , aka " covert hostility. " Your nada feels a need to or feels justified to " get back " at you, and you recognize her technique: attacking your child's dress as " ugly " is a means of attacking *you* without appearing to do so directly. This passive-aggressive, indirect attack is a highly advanced and subtle way to hurt someone. I'm willing to bet that you will be more " in the moment " the next time that happens. I'm betting that you won't " freeze " next time and will be able to state your reasonable boundary right then and there. You will find the courage to call her out on her insulting, hurtful remark, and tell her to knock it off, or else. You could say something like, " Mom, you can tell me *privately* whether or not you dislike something my child is wearing, but don't you ever say something like that in front of my child again. She will think that you're telling her that she is ugly. Children do that: they take everything literally. Do you understand me? What did I just say? " And go over it with her again and again until she repeats it back to you correctly. If I'd ever said anything like that to my mother, that would have meant instant excommunication (and besides, I never had kids) but my younger Sister had the balls to do it. Sister couldn't stand up to nada for her own self, but somehow she could do it when it was her boy who was impacted. One time when my Sister was driving our mother somewhere (and Sister's small son was in the back seat) nada began criticizing and denigrating my Sister's parenting choices in front of the child. My Sister pulled the car over to the side of the freeway and reamed our nada a new asshole. She said that if nada had an opinion about her parenting she could tell Sister about it privately, but nada was never again to disrespect her or put her down in front of her boy, because that undermined her authority with her own child. Sister said that if nada didn't agree right then and there, that *nada would be left on the side of the freeway to make her own way home.* This terrified and cowed nada so much that she never criticized Sister again in front of her boy. It would seem that sometimes you just have to play *hardball* with these personality-disordered individuals *even if it means enduring unpleasant consequences.* Our nada has a lot of characteristics of a bully, and you have to take a stand with a bully. A bully does not respect you if you aren't stronger than they are. Its disgustingly animal-like, this hierarchy of power in the pack, but it seems to be the dynamic when pd parents are in the picture. Its pretty clear that my mother did not respect my Sister as an adult or as a parent, and possibly nada even resented Sister's status as a parent and felt entitled to take Sister's status from her and replace Sister as the parent figure to Sister's son. It would seem that when the personality-disordered parent feels entitled to attack or punish her adult child she will do it in any way possible, even if it means hurting her adult child by attacking the grandchild. At this site, I've read posts by those whose nada has attacked the grandchild more directly, if you can believe it. One poster described how her nada hurt her child by describing the Halloween candy the child would be missing (because the child was bedridden, too ill to go Trick-Or-Treating) even after being told specifically not to mention Halloween or Trick-or-Treating. Other nadas " accidentally " feed their grandchild foods that they've been told repeatedly that the child is allergic to. These seemingly " oops! " incidents are not so accidental, seems to me. Its OK to take a stand and give a hard boundary & consequence when your child's mental health and emotional vulnerability are at stake, sez I. Being protective of your child's feelings does not make you a bad daughter or a bad person, in my opinion. In fact it makes you a great mom, in my opinion. -Annie > > > yeah - the more I think about this... > > I had started to get comfortable. To the point where I was saying " Hey - she hasn't done anything really bad or crazy in a while now " thinking maybe she had earned some more trust. But now that I think about it, the last couple times she's gotten some zingers in. She apologizes, but I think she's just learned that apologizing is a good way to get away with saying the zinger. I've got to lay down the law again about what is and is not ok to say. > > so exhausting. As if the toddler wasn't enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 Thank you Annie, you always write such deep and intelligent responses. You know what's funny - when I froze - the thought in my head was " I hate this woman! " over and over. I didn't speak because I couldn't say that, and I couldn't think of anything else but that phrase over and over. I finally calmed down and the rest of the visit would have looked as pleasant as sunshine to any outsider. I guess it isn't funny, but the inside and the outside are just so completely topsy turvy. Nada started babysitting for someone else after my child was born. That was fine with me, it's not like I'm interested in letting her be around my child unsupervised. Then she went on and on about what a great mother this other woman was, the woman she sat for, and how she was learning so much from her. I managed not to vomit. I kept a smile on my face and stared at the wall. The reason I did that, is that if I let her see that I'm upset, then she's won, she's been rewarded. Upsetting me is her goal. So I try to never show any emotion. Maybe that's why I froze, I had so much emotion, and I've just trained myself to close the door when she's around. So - if I tried to rip her a new one - (and I wish you had a video of your sister doing that that - it would be fantastic!) I feel like she'd enjoy it. She likes making me angry. I think the threat of keeping myself and the grandchild away from her is the best way to make her behave. It makes my stomach hurt thinking about having this conversation with her. I didn't realize how much fear was still operating on me in this relationship. Oh - the bully thing is in our family too. Nada's sisters always bully her, and she gets bullied by other people a lot too - she seems to attract them. You almost feel sorry for her. But the minute she has someone with less power than herself - a child - she becomes the bully. Sick. tre > > > > > > yeah - the more I think about this... > > > > I had started to get comfortable. To the point where I was saying " Hey - she hasn't done anything really bad or crazy in a while now " thinking maybe she had earned some more trust. But now that I think about it, the last couple times she's gotten some zingers in. She apologizes, but I think she's just learned that apologizing is a good way to get away with saying the zinger. I've got to lay down the law again about what is and is not ok to say. > > > > so exhausting. As if the toddler wasn't enough! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2010 Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 I'm so glad if anything I've posted helps you or anyone here; I certainly find insight and enlightenment here myself when reading the posts of fellow KOs. Each individual has to discover what will work for herself or himself. Some KOs can tolerate a limited contact relationship with a pd parent, some can set and enforce firm but rational and reasonable boundaries with a pd parent, and others are too damaged and vulnerable to further damage and must go No Contact to protect their own emotional health. And some are just plain old fed up with the whole thing and refuse to take it anymore. Its totally up to each person to discover/recognize her own level of tolerance. Kudos to those of you with children who can find the courage to protect your children from the abuser who hurt you. It seems to me that with my Sister, it may have been cumulative; it just took that one final straw to do the trick. Sister had taken a lot of criticism and denigration, emotional abuse, humiliation and shame from our nada her whole life, but perhaps something nada said *that day*, or possibly it was the *way* nada said it, just became the last straw and flipped on a switch in my Sister's demeanor. Something made Sister rear up on her hind legs and let nada have it, and how. And in her situation: Sister's relationship dynamic with our nada, that's what worked. (Although nada continued to be critical and insulting to Sister, she never undermined Sister in front of her grandchild again or Sister would have cut all contact, I'm guessing. But I'd have to get confirmation from Sister on the details.) You'll have to figure out what will work in your own situation. Perhaps for you, its simply leaving. When your nada does that passive-aggressive attack thing, you suddenly have to go somewhere else and cut the visit short, or you suddenly have to cut the phone call short: stop rewarding her with your time and attention for bullying you. Maybe if you consistently and rather abruptly vanish, you will spoil her game; she can't bully you if you're not there. That's what I've done, basically. I just couldn't take the emotional roller-coaster of being attacked, then being given a present or sobbed on and begged for forgiveness, over and over. I got tired of it and it was literally making me sick, so I've basically gone No Contact for all intents and purposes. I simply don't make myself available for in-person attack anymore, but its possible for me to do that because (a) I am not dependent on my nada in any way; I am self-supporting and live far away from her ( I genuinely don't care what she says about me to the rest of the family, and © my Sister and I are friends, and she and my nephew are the only ones I care about, really. But that's just my own opinion; take into account that I'm at the point where I say *screw the bullies of this world*. Just screw 'em, I don't care what the bullies or their flying monkeys say or what they think, I just want them to stay the hell away from me. -Annie > > > Thank you Annie, you always write such deep and intelligent responses. > > You know what's funny - when I froze - the thought in my head was " I hate this woman! " over and over. I didn't speak because I couldn't say that, and I couldn't think of anything else but that phrase over and over. I finally calmed down and the rest of the visit would have looked as pleasant as sunshine to any outsider. I guess it isn't funny, but the inside and the outside are just so completely topsy turvy. > > Nada started babysitting for someone else after my child was born. That was fine with me, it's not like I'm interested in letting her be around my child unsupervised. Then she went on and on about what a great mother this other woman was, the woman she sat for, and how she was learning so much from her. I managed not to vomit. I kept a smile on my face and stared at the wall. The reason I did that, is that if I let her see that I'm upset, then she's won, she's been rewarded. Upsetting me is her goal. So I try to never show any emotion. Maybe that's why I froze, I had so much emotion, and I've just trained myself to close the door when she's around. So - if I tried to rip her a new one - (and I wish you had a video of your sister doing that that - it would be fantastic!) I feel like she'd enjoy it. She likes making me angry. > > I think the threat of keeping myself and the grandchild away from her is the best way to make her behave. It makes my stomach hurt thinking about having this conversation with her. I didn't realize how much fear was still operating on me in this relationship. > > Oh - the bully thing is in our family too. Nada's sisters always bully her, and she gets bullied by other people a lot too - she seems to attract them. You almost feel sorry for her. But the minute she has someone with less power than herself - a child - she becomes the bully. Sick. > > tre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2010 Report Share Posted October 26, 2010 I hear you about the physical response. We really should listen to what our bodies tell us more. I just called her. Told her that she had been making hurtful remarks, and I didn't want to see her for a while. That she had to stop and think before she spoke. That she and her sisters might talk to each other this way but she was NOT going to do it around my daughter. She said ok. I hung up. I know you said to make her repeat it to me to make sure she understood. But I was having trouble keeping it together. I didn't want to start crying and if she said anything then I would have, and as per the other conversation, she would have won. So I chose to hang up instead. I called my real parents, dad and step-mom, and got some support from there too. I expect I'll get a letter or something soon. But at least I did it! Took a lot of deep breaths and pacing. But I did it. phew. Thanks! tre > > > > > > Thank you Annie, you always write such deep and intelligent responses. > > > > You know what's funny - when I froze - the thought in my head was " I hate this woman! " over and over. I didn't speak because I couldn't say that, and I couldn't think of anything else but that phrase over and over. I finally calmed down and the rest of the visit would have looked as pleasant as sunshine to any outsider. I guess it isn't funny, but the inside and the outside are just so completely topsy turvy. > > > > Nada started babysitting for someone else after my child was born. That was fine with me, it's not like I'm interested in letting her be around my child unsupervised. Then she went on and on about what a great mother this other woman was, the woman she sat for, and how she was learning so much from her. I managed not to vomit. I kept a smile on my face and stared at the wall. The reason I did that, is that if I let her see that I'm upset, then she's won, she's been rewarded. Upsetting me is her goal. So I try to never show any emotion. Maybe that's why I froze, I had so much emotion, and I've just trained myself to close the door when she's around. So - if I tried to rip her a new one - (and I wish you had a video of your sister doing that that - it would be fantastic!) I feel like she'd enjoy it. She likes making me angry. > > > > I think the threat of keeping myself and the grandchild away from her is the best way to make her behave. It makes my stomach hurt thinking about having this conversation with her. I didn't realize how much fear was still operating on me in this relationship. > > > > Oh - the bully thing is in our family too. Nada's sisters always bully her, and she gets bullied by other people a lot too - she seems to attract them. You almost feel sorry for her. But the minute she has someone with less power than herself - a child - she becomes the bully. Sick. > > > > tre > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2010 Report Share Posted October 26, 2010 ((((((((((Tre!)))))))))) That is awesome! That took a huge amount of courage on your part! Very impressive. I'm so glad you have " real " parents to give you RL emotional support, too. Kudos to you for standing up for yourself and your child. That is wonderful. -Annie > > I hear you about the physical response. We really should listen to what our bodies tell us more. > > I just called her. Told her that she had been making hurtful remarks, and I didn't want to see her for a while. That she had to stop and think before she spoke. That she and her sisters might talk to each other this way but she was NOT going to do it around my daughter. She said ok. I hung up. > > I know you said to make her repeat it to me to make sure she understood. But I was having trouble keeping it together. I didn't want to start crying and if she said anything then I would have, and as per the other conversation, she would have won. So I chose to hang up instead. I called my real parents, dad and step-mom, and got some support from there too. > > I expect I'll get a letter or something soon. But at least I did it! Took a lot of deep breaths and pacing. But I did it. phew. > > Thanks! > > tre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 My nada did something similar to the babysitting thing. She would tutor little kids around the neighborhood - while refusing to go to my parent teach conferences, refusing to keep appointments with me to help me with homework, etc. By the way, she was a teacher. An english teacher/special ed. I only asked her for help with English homework. She would agree and then have a tantrum when the time to do it came. She also took in girls off the street and parented them while neglecting me, giving them my stuff, letting them sleep in my bed etc. Weird. On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 1:19 PM, anuria67854 wrote: > > > ((((((((((Tre!)))))))))) > That is awesome! That took a huge amount of courage on your part! Very > impressive. > I'm so glad you have " real " parents to give you RL emotional support, too. > Kudos to you for standing up for yourself and your child. That is > wonderful. > > > -Annie > > > > > > I hear you about the physical response. We really should listen to what > our bodies tell us more. > > > > I just called her. Told her that she had been making hurtful remarks, and > I didn't want to see her for a while. That she had to stop and think before > she spoke. That she and her sisters might talk to each other this way but > she was NOT going to do it around my daughter. She said ok. I hung up. > > > > I know you said to make her repeat it to me to make sure she understood. > But I was having trouble keeping it together. I didn't want to start crying > and if she said anything then I would have, and as per the other > conversation, she would have won. So I chose to hang up instead. I called my > real parents, dad and step-mom, and got some support from there too. > > > > I expect I'll get a letter or something soon. But at least I did it! Took > a lot of deep breaths and pacing. But I did it. phew. > > > > Thanks! > > > > tre > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 Wow. How rejecting your nada's behavior was to you, her own child! It seems rather deliberate to me, too, like " revenge " behavior. My nada would do something similar, from time to time. Her version of it was to do negative comparisons, such as, nada would admire and praise a project that my friend did, when we both had the same project assignment. It was devastating to me. The one area I really excelled in had nothing to do with nada; my dad's side of the family had this particular talent and I seem to have inherited it. So, I suppose that depending on how nada felt about herself/me at the moment, sometimes she would encourage and help me to develop this talent, and other times she'd obliterate my sense of achievement by negative comparisons or by taking credit for something I'd done, herself. And similarly to what you described RE your nada " adopting " girls to mother while neglecting you, once when I was about 13 or 14 my parents took in a young woman for a short time, and they simply put her in my room without asking me. If they had asked, had explained that " Jane " was in a bad way and had no place to go, and would be staying with us for a few weeks, I probably would have been much more willing to share, but being treated as though I didn't even exist and having " my " things and " my " space given away without my consent (which meant that weren't actually " mine " ) hurt my feelings and infuriated me. I was treated like an inanimate object, yet again. So, I can really relate to your experiences. -Annie > > My nada did something similar to the babysitting thing. She would tutor > little kids around the neighborhood - while refusing to go to my parent > teach conferences, refusing to keep appointments with me to help me with > homework, etc. By the way, she was a teacher. An english teacher/special ed. > I only asked her for help with English homework. She would agree and then > have a tantrum when the time to do it came. > > She also took in girls off the street and parented them while neglecting me, > giving them my stuff, letting them sleep in my bed etc. > > Weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 i was a competitive figure skater as an adult (age 17-24), but my mom didn't approve of my boyfriend, so she disowned me completely for all the years we skated together and dated. She never saw me skate...never would soften her heart, let down her guard, and just see me for who I was to her. That was years and years ago. But now, she will watch the olympics and comment on how beautiful the figure skaters are. I die inside. Amy Re: Managing nada Wow. How rejecting your nada's behavior was to you, her own child! It seems rather deliberate to me, too, like " revenge " behavior. My nada would do something similar, from time to time. Her version of it was to do negative comparisons, such as, nada would admire and praise a project that my friend did, when we both had the same project assignment. It was devastating to me. The one area I really excelled in had nothing to do with nada; my dad's side of the family had this particular talent and I seem to have inherited it. So, I suppose that depending on how nada felt about herself/me at the moment, sometimes she would encourage and help me to develop this talent, and other times she'd obliterate my sense of achievement by negative comparisons or by taking credit for something I'd done, herself. And similarly to what you described RE your nada " adopting " girls to mother while neglecting you, once when I was about 13 or 14 my parents took in a young woman for a short time, and they simply put her in my room without asking me. If they had asked, had explained that " Jane " was in a bad way and had no place to go, and would be staying with us for a few weeks, I probably would have been much more willing to share, but being treated as though I didn't even exist and having " my " things and " my " space given away without my consent (which meant that weren't actually " mine " ) hurt my feelings and infuriated me. I was treated like an inanimate object, yet again. So, I can really relate to your experiences. -Annie > > My nada did something similar to the babysitting thing. She would tutor > little kids around the neighborhood - while refusing to go to my parent > teach conferences, refusing to keep appointments with me to help me with > homework, etc. By the way, she was a teacher. An english teacher/special ed. > I only asked her for help with English homework. She would agree and then > have a tantrum when the time to do it came. > > She also took in girls off the street and parented them while neglecting me, > giving them my stuff, letting them sleep in my bed etc. > > Weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 Annie, what's your talent? I would LOVE to hear. By the way, I don't believe all our talents are inherited - I've learned to do a 100 things neither of my parents can do. But a few things, like being good with animals I got from my dad, and good with words may come from my mom. Amy your skater story reminds me of the music career I wanted to have. Starting at age 3, the only thing I wanted to do was play the piano. My mother was a PIANO TEACHER!!! She insisted that I was unteachable, and that a mother couldn't teach a daughter. I have a strange dreamlike memory of her slamming the piano lid closed on my hands. And freaking at me.She raged almost every single time I sat down to play. And I was 3 years old!!! I didn't give up. I took lessons in piano and other instruments my whole life. Figured out other teachers etc. The Mormon culture I grew up in really valued music and performance skills, and I'm VERY grateful for that, the performing arts are my passion. However, if I'd had more support, I believe I could have done incredibly well - one of my teachers played for the Utah symphony. I wanted to do that. But by the time I was in high school, in AP music, I was just so far behind the other kids. . . because I hadn't had the support. A lot of them did nothing but music 6 to 8 hours a day from the time they were 3. That's what I wanted to do - but when I tried my mother raged. I did well in it, taught piano, performed in a folk music group, but ended up giving up when my dad pressured me to spend my time on things he felt would be more lucrative. I still regret it. > > > i was a competitive figure skater as an adult (age 17-24), but my mom > didn't approve of my boyfriend, so she disowned me completely for all the > years we skated together and dated. She never saw me skate...never would > soften her heart, let down her guard, and just see me for who I was to her. > That was years and years ago. > But now, she will watch the olympics and comment on how beautiful the > figure skaters are. > I die inside. > Amy > > > Re: Managing nada > > Wow. How rejecting your nada's behavior was to you, her own child! > > It seems rather deliberate to me, too, like " revenge " behavior. > > My nada would do something similar, from time to time. Her version of it > was to do negative comparisons, such as, nada would admire and praise a > project that my friend did, when we both had the same project assignment. It > was devastating to me. > > The one area I really excelled in had nothing to do with nada; my dad's > side of the family had this particular talent and I seem to have inherited > it. So, I suppose that depending on how nada felt about herself/me at the > moment, sometimes she would encourage and help me to develop this talent, > and other times she'd obliterate my sense of achievement by negative > comparisons or by taking credit for something I'd done, herself. > > And similarly to what you described RE your nada " adopting " girls to mother > while neglecting you, once when I was about 13 or 14 my parents took in a > young woman for a short time, and they simply put her in my room without > asking me. If they had asked, had explained that " Jane " was in a bad way and > had no place to go, and would be staying with us for a few weeks, I probably > would have been much more willing to share, but being treated as though I > didn't even exist and having " my " things and " my " space given away without > my consent (which meant that weren't actually " mine " ) hurt my feelings and > infuriated me. I was treated like an inanimate object, yet again. > > So, I can really relate to your experiences. > > -Annie > > > > > > My nada did something similar to the babysitting thing. She would tutor > > little kids around the neighborhood - while refusing to go to my parent > > teach conferences, refusing to keep appointments with me to help me with > > homework, etc. By the way, she was a teacher. An english teacher/special > ed. > > I only asked her for help with English homework. She would agree and then > > have a tantrum when the time to do it came. > > > > She also took in girls off the street and parented them while neglecting > me, > > giving them my stuff, letting them sleep in my bed etc. > > > > Weird. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Amy,that's awesome that you were a competitive figure skater,how cool The similarities here are eerie again.I wanted to be a figure skater but never got farther than the lake near our house in wintertime because my parents totally ignored my ambition and I had no way of seeking training on my own.But nada would do the same thing,watch the Olympcis and comment on how beautiful the figure skaters were.At the time when I realized that I had some skating talent (feedback from kids/adults who saw me skating on the lake--nada would never come down to watch me) and foolishly told nada I wanted to be a figure skater,she ignored me completely BUT went out and got a " Dorothy Hammill " haircut and made a big deal of it,because she " really admired " Dorothy Hammill... That's terrible that your nada would watch figure skaters on tv and make glowing comments about them when she had disowned you while you were actually skating.I'm so sorry--that would make me die inside too. > > i was a competitive figure skater as an adult (age 17-24), but my mom didn't approve of my boyfriend, so she disowned me completely for all the years we skated together and dated. She never saw me skate...never would soften her heart, let down her guard, and just see me for who I was to her. That was years and years ago. > But now, she will watch the olympics and comment on how beautiful the figure skaters are. > I die inside. > Amy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Girlscout,I wonder if nadas who are teachers exhibit the same kinds of traits/behaviors...because my school teacher nada was alot like yours--she never helped me with homework or became impatient with me if I needed help.ONE time in fifth grade she took dictation from me for a long book report because I had broken my wrist ice skating and couldn't write. In second grade my teacher gave us an assigment to make our own board game.It was a pretty complicated homework project.I was about seven--and nada never once offered to help.When I brought my completed board game into school I was horrified to see how neat and put together everyone else's games were.Mine was a mess: slightly skewed illustrations on the main game piece,playing cards of uneven sizes.I had had an especially hard time trying to cut the playing cards into equal sizes--another girl in the class had a board game with these perfectly cut playing cards,all the same size,so I asked her how had she done it. She kind of laughed at me as if it should have been obvious and said, " My mom cut them out for me. " I was like: What?! I went to the teacher and told her that it wasn't fair some of the kids had had their parents help them and she said, " ,if you needed help to make your game look neat,you should have asked your mother for help.I like your idea but your game is so messy,it would have turned out much better if you had asked for help. " Aaaarrrggghh! It hadn't even occured to me ask nada for help.And she had watched me struggling and done nothing,anyway. She took my dolls and stuffed animals into school for her students to use during playtime the many years she taught kindergarten and never asked my permission first. Or she'd have one,usually female,student she took on special outings and raved about how wonderful she was,while like you said,neglecting me.And spend extra one on one time with them to make sure they succeeded in school while leaving me to sink or swim on my own steam. > > My nada did something similar to the babysitting thing. She would tutor > little kids around the neighborhood - while refusing to go to my parent > teach conferences, refusing to keep appointments with me to help me with > homework, etc. By the way, she was a teacher. An english teacher/special ed. > I only asked her for help with English homework. She would agree and then > have a tantrum when the time to do it came. > > She also took in girls off the street and parented them while neglecting me, > giving them my stuff, letting them sleep in my bed etc. > > Weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 More similarities...my nada was a master at " obliterating my sense of achievement (by comparison) " --not always negatively: she could also do that very well by praising and admiring something someone else had done,like you also mentioned. When I was in fourth grade I won third prize in a fire prevention awareness poster contest--third prize out of all the entries from grammar schools town wide.I'm not very good at drawing and even then knew that I'm not very good at drawing,so I was astounded when I actually won that third prize.I thought maybe it was a mistake or maybe the entries that year had just been particularly bad. Nada and fada did nothing to reassure me that perhaps I had won the prize because my poster actually merited it.The prize winners were invited to a ceremony at the city hall--nada and fada took me but went immediately to sit down several rows back and didn't even bother to have a look at my poster displayed up on the stage that had been set up for the ceremony.I crept up to have a look convinced that my poster wouldn't be there (it was a mistake) and was surprised to find it there with the third prize ribbon attached to it. Managing to even do that poster at all was no mean feat not only because I had mediocre drawing skills but because the whole subject of fire safety/prevention was extremely triggering for me.The boys who had sexually abused had used the threat of burning my house down if I told to keep me quiet and I had spent many nights awake in bed terrified that this was the night they would set my house on fire.I had already learned as much as I could on my own about escaping from a burning house and had rehearsed many many times how I would get out of the house via various possible escape routes,but the catch was always how I would save both myself and all of my pets (dog,two cats,several gerbils and a parakeet).I didn't think that I wanted to live if they died in a fire.I had nightmares about being disfigured by fire.One of the boys who sexually assaulted me later did jail time for arson: he set his girlfriend's house on fire when she dumped him. So when I was forced by the teacher to participate in this fire prevention poster contest at first I was so triggered I could barely cope but I managed to pull myself together and decided to frame my poster as blocks illustrating four main points of what we had been taught: logical,ordered,instructive.It calmed me down somewhat to plan out my poster and I made several before deciding on which one to enter into the contest. I felt triggered all over again at the city hall ceremony because the fire department was making a presentation and I felt like I would lose my mind finally if the firemen said something really scary that would send me over the edge.So I went back to where nada and fada were sitting and tried to engage them in conversation about my poster and why I had chosen to highlight the points I had.They both ignored me.Neither of them even looked at me or said a word while I felt like my head was going to detach from my body and float away. When I fell silent nada said in this self satisfied voice to no one in particular, " That first place poster is really outstanding.Even from back here the flames he drew just jump right out at you. " When we got home fada griped that he had missed some show on tv " for that stupid thing " .Meaning the ceremony or me,I couldn't tell but it felt like the same thing. I really hate both of them when I remember stuff like this. > > Wow. How rejecting your nada's behavior was to you, her own child! > > It seems rather deliberate to me, too, like " revenge " behavior. > > My nada would do something similar, from time to time. Her version of it was to do negative comparisons, such as, nada would admire and praise a project that my friend did, when we both had the same project assignment. It was devastating to me. > > The one area I really excelled in had nothing to do with nada; my dad's side of the family had this particular talent and I seem to have inherited it. So, I suppose that depending on how nada felt about herself/me at the moment, sometimes she would encourage and help me to develop this talent, and other times she'd obliterate my sense of achievement by negative comparisons or by taking credit for something I'd done, herself. > > And similarly to what you described RE your nada " adopting " girls to mother while neglecting you, once when I was about 13 or 14 my parents took in a young woman for a short time, and they simply put her in my room without asking me. If they had asked, had explained that " Jane " was in a bad way and had no place to go, and would be staying with us for a few weeks, I probably would have been much more willing to share, but being treated as though I didn't even exist and having " my " things and " my " space given away without my consent (which meant that weren't actually " mine " ) hurt my feelings and infuriated me. I was treated like an inanimate object, yet again. > > So, I can really relate to your experiences. > > -Annie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 -----I hate your parents, too!!!!!! Wow, I wish I could go back in time and go with you to that presentation. i would have taken a ton of pictures, called the local newspaper, put you in the front row. wow! You know,now I work with kids a lot and I ALWAYS make a huge deal out of the stuff the do. . . They are jerks. On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 1:24 AM, christine.depizan < christine.depizan@...> wrote: > > > More similarities...my nada was a master at " obliterating my sense of > achievement (by comparison) " --not always negatively: she could also do that > very well by praising and admiring something someone else had done,like you > also mentioned. > > When I was in fourth grade I won third prize in a fire prevention awareness > poster contest--third prize out of all the entries from grammar schools town > wide.I'm not very good at drawing and even then knew that I'm not very good > at drawing,so I was astounded when I actually won that third prize.I thought > maybe it was a mistake or maybe the entries that year had just been > particularly bad. > > Nada and fada did nothing to reassure me that perhaps I had won the prize > because my poster actually merited it.The prize winners were invited to a > ceremony at the city hall--nada and fada took me but went immediately to sit > down several rows back and didn't even bother to have a look at my poster > displayed up on the stage that had been set up for the ceremony.I crept up > to have a look convinced that my poster wouldn't be there (it was a mistake) > and was surprised to find it there with the third prize ribbon attached to > it. > > Managing to even do that poster at all was no mean feat not only because I > had mediocre drawing skills but because the whole subject of fire > safety/prevention was extremely triggering for me.The boys who had sexually > abused had used the threat of burning my house down if I told to keep me > quiet and I had spent many nights awake in bed terrified that this was the > night they would set my house on fire.I had already learned as much as I > could on my own about escaping from a burning house and had rehearsed many > many times how I would get out of the house via various possible escape > routes,but the catch was always how I would save both myself and all of my > pets (dog,two cats,several gerbils and a parakeet).I didn't think that I > wanted to live if they died in a fire.I had nightmares about being > disfigured by fire.One of the boys who sexually assaulted me later did jail > time for arson: he set his girlfriend's house on fire when she dumped him. > > So when I was forced by the teacher to participate in this fire prevention > poster contest at first I was so triggered I could barely cope but I managed > to pull myself together and decided to frame my poster as blocks > illustrating four main points of what we had been taught: > logical,ordered,instructive.It calmed me down somewhat to plan out my poster > and I made several before deciding on which one to enter into the contest. > > I felt triggered all over again at the city hall ceremony because the fire > department was making a presentation and I felt like I would lose my mind > finally if the firemen said something really scary that would send me over > the edge.So I went back to where nada and fada were sitting and tried to > engage them in conversation about my poster and why I had chosen to > highlight the points I had.They both ignored me.Neither of them even looked > at me or said a word while I felt like my head was going to detach from my > body and float away. > > When I fell silent nada said in this self satisfied voice to no one in > particular, " That first place poster is really outstanding.Even from back > here the flames he drew just jump right out at you. " > > When we got home fada griped that he had missed some show on tv " for that > stupid thing " .Meaning the ceremony or me,I couldn't tell but it felt like > the same thing. > > I really hate both of them when I remember stuff like this. > > > > > > > > > Wow. How rejecting your nada's behavior was to you, her own child! > > > > It seems rather deliberate to me, too, like " revenge " behavior. > > > > My nada would do something similar, from time to time. Her version of it > was to do negative comparisons, such as, nada would admire and praise a > project that my friend did, when we both had the same project assignment. It > was devastating to me. > > > > The one area I really excelled in had nothing to do with nada; my dad's > side of the family had this particular talent and I seem to have inherited > it. So, I suppose that depending on how nada felt about herself/me at the > moment, sometimes she would encourage and help me to develop this talent, > and other times she'd obliterate my sense of achievement by negative > comparisons or by taking credit for something I'd done, herself. > > > > And similarly to what you described RE your nada " adopting " girls to > mother while neglecting you, once when I was about 13 or 14 my parents took > in a young woman for a short time, and they simply put her in my room > without asking me. If they had asked, had explained that " Jane " was in a bad > way and had no place to go, and would be staying with us for a few weeks, I > probably would have been much more willing to share, but being treated as > though I didn't even exist and having " my " things and " my " space given away > without my consent (which meant that weren't actually " mine " ) hurt my > feelings and infuriated me. I was treated like an inanimate object, yet > again. > > > > So, I can really relate to your experiences. > > > > -Annie > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Wow. It seems to me that a key behavior with the bpd mother is that its (virtually) exclusively her own children and her own grandchildren who are in danger of emotional and physical abuse or neglect from her. The uniqueness of this targeted behavior is hard to comprehend. If a person is *dangerous*, that means dangerous to everyone, right? But no, this particular mental illness in combination with this unique mother-child relationship has a unique potential for damage. (The most similar thing I can think of is that a schoolyard bully will tend to target one victim at a time, and the bully waits for the victim to be alone before the bully & the bully's gang attacks.) The bpd/npd/aspd mother can appear angelic to other people's children because they ARE " other " . For the children of other people, nada is performing her role as the ideal woman or the ideal teacher because she gets public recognition and praise for that. The bpd/npd/aspd mother can appear angelic toward her own children, in public, as well. Why does this happen? These are just my theories, so, take into account that this is just my personal opinion. Nada may actively resent having had children of her own. Perhaps she truly didn't want to have kids but felt cultural, familial or marital pressure to do so. Or perhaps nada had an unrealistic, perfectionistic, childish fantasy of what motherhood was supposed to be like, and the reality fell far short of that. The day-to-day acts of parenting are not glamorous, there are no cameras, there is no public praise, so nada now feels used, unappreciated, and actively resents having to care for those she gave birth to who (in nada's opinion) never show her enough gratitude or appreciation for her sacrifices. Unless nada is psychotic, she comprehends that she can't just dump her kids somewhere and be rid of them. She is stuck with them. What is she getting out of parenthood? Not enough. Not *nearly* enough to warrant and reward her efforts sufficiently. So nada's children tend to be assigned roles that suit nada's needs: 1. Her appendage (you don't thank your arm for lifting a cup to your lips) or her possession (you don't thank your shoes for transporting you to the store.) I think this would fall into " The Forgotten Child " category. 2. Her idealized, perfect reflection; the bearer of all her own perceived good traits. This is the " Golden Child " who can do no wrong. Being over-indulged, pampered, and rescued/protected from any natural consequences for bad behavior infantilizes the child, making him or her emotionally dependent on mommy, possibly for life, and can turn this child/adult into a hideous, narcissistic bully. 3. The scapegoat. The child on whom nada chooses to project all her own self-loathing, all her own bad, unwanted traits. This child deserves to be alternately punished and ignored, according to nada. Nada even feels justified and entitled to do this. This poor, bewildered all-bad child becomes nada's emotional or even physical punching bag and can literally be starved to death for attention and approval. 4. Some other person, other than nada. This child is cast in the role of nada's parent: either a beloved parent or a hated parent, or nada's rescuer. This child can become nada's substitute spouse, perhaps, or nada's bestest best friend, nada's sibling, or nada's/fada's whore. Anyone *except* the unique, individual human being that the child actually is. The danger is really only to the bpd mother's own children, or grandchildren: her possessions, hers, to indulge or punish or ignore or exploit as she wishes, as she is entitled to. That's why this is such a damnably difficult concept to get across to other people. I get frustrated because even *other support groups* just don't seem get this, that the bpd/npd/aspd mother can be a UNIQUE danger to her own children and her own grandchildren. The idea that a human mother will metaphorically eat her own young is just too shocking and reprehensible, I guess, but that seems to me to be what happens when a mother (in particular, as the primary caregiver) has undiagnosed and untreated Cluster B disorder(s). It is the psychological equivalent of human cannibalism. -Annie PS: I stopped even asking my nada for help with homework by the end of 2nd grade. She would particularly make fun of me, shame me and humiliate me for not understanding math (her strong subject), and she'd become enraged with me if she couldn't explain a concept to me in a way I could get it. ( " You stupid idiot " was her favorite.) So like you, I had to struggle on my own. I remember Dad helping me once, when I was in 5th grade, I believe. > > Girlscout,I wonder if nadas who are teachers exhibit the same kinds of traits/behaviors...because my school teacher nada was alot like yours--she never helped me with homework or became impatient with me if I needed help.ONE time in fifth grade she took dictation from me for a long book report because I had broken my wrist ice skating and couldn't write. > > In second grade my teacher gave us an assigment to make our own board game.It was a pretty complicated homework project.I was about seven--and nada never once offered to help.When I brought my completed board game into school I was horrified to see how neat and put together everyone else's games were.Mine was a mess: slightly skewed illustrations on the main game piece,playing cards of uneven sizes.I had had an especially hard time trying to cut the playing cards into equal sizes--another girl in the class had a board game with these perfectly cut playing cards,all the same size,so I asked her how had she done it. > > She kind of laughed at me as if it should have been obvious and said, " My mom cut them out for me. " > > I was like: What?! I went to the teacher and told her that it wasn't fair some of the kids had had their parents help them and she said, " ,if you needed help to make your game look neat,you should have asked your mother for help.I like your idea but your game is so messy,it would have turned out much better if you had asked for help. " > > Aaaarrrggghh! It hadn't even occured to me ask nada for help.And she had watched me struggling and done nothing,anyway. > > She took my dolls and stuffed animals into school for her students to use during playtime the many years she taught kindergarten and never asked my permission first. > > Or she'd have one,usually female,student she took on special outings and raved about how wonderful she was,while like you said,neglecting me.And spend extra one on one time with them to make sure they succeeded in school while leaving me to sink or swim on my own steam. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 ((((((())))))) What they did to you is just so casually cruel, like, to them that was just normal. That is so chilling to me. It can only be one of three possibilities: (a) Our personality-disordered parent(s) can't comprehend that their children have feelings just like they do, or ( Our pd parents understand that their children have feelings that can be hurt, but they simply don't care, or © Pd parents actively want to be cruel to their children. Me personally, I think its mostly ( and ©. Little children shouldn't have to endure an environment in which they are routinely treated with cruelty or treated as though their very humanity is nonexistent. Nobody can grow up enduring two decades of such treatment undamaged. If you feed and water a puppy every day, groom it, take it for walks, but every day at some point you kick the puppy hard in the ribs or abdomen, or push its nose into its own excrement, or back it into a corner, screaming at it and hitting it with a rolled up magazine... or, if you only take care of the puppy on some days, and otherwise leave it chained up and alone for days and days at a time... will that puppy grow up to be a normal, loving, trusting adult dog? I don't think so. -Annie > > More similarities...my nada was a master at " obliterating my sense of achievement (by comparison) " --not always negatively: she could also do that very well by praising and admiring something someone else had done,like you also mentioned. > > When I was in fourth grade I won third prize in a fire prevention awareness poster contest--third prize out of all the entries from grammar schools town wide.I'm not very good at drawing and even then knew that I'm not very good at drawing,so I was astounded when I actually won that third prize.I thought maybe it was a mistake or maybe the entries that year had just been particularly bad. > > Nada and fada did nothing to reassure me that perhaps I had won the prize because my poster actually merited it.The prize winners were invited to a ceremony at the city hall--nada and fada took me but went immediately to sit down several rows back and didn't even bother to have a look at my poster displayed up on the stage that had been set up for the ceremony.I crept up to have a look convinced that my poster wouldn't be there (it was a mistake) and was surprised to find it there with the third prize ribbon attached to it. > > Managing to even do that poster at all was no mean feat not only because I had mediocre drawing skills but because the whole subject of fire safety/prevention was extremely triggering for me.The boys who had sexually abused had used the threat of burning my house down if I told to keep me quiet and I had spent many nights awake in bed terrified that this was the night they would set my house on fire.I had already learned as much as I could on my own about escaping from a burning house and had rehearsed many many times how I would get out of the house via various possible escape routes,but the catch was always how I would save both myself and all of my pets (dog,two cats,several gerbils and a parakeet).I didn't think that I wanted to live if they died in a fire.I had nightmares about being disfigured by fire.One of the boys who sexually assaulted me later did jail time for arson: he set his girlfriend's house on fire when she dumped him. > > So when I was forced by the teacher to participate in this fire prevention poster contest at first I was so triggered I could barely cope but I managed to pull myself together and decided to frame my poster as blocks illustrating four main points of what we had been taught: logical,ordered,instructive.It calmed me down somewhat to plan out my poster and I made several before deciding on which one to enter into the contest. > > I felt triggered all over again at the city hall ceremony because the fire department was making a presentation and I felt like I would lose my mind finally if the firemen said something really scary that would send me over the edge.So I went back to where nada and fada were sitting and tried to engage them in conversation about my poster and why I had chosen to highlight the points I had.They both ignored me.Neither of them even looked at me or said a word while I felt like my head was going to detach from my body and float away. > > When I fell silent nada said in this self satisfied voice to no one in particular, " That first place poster is really outstanding.Even from back here the flames he drew just jump right out at you. " > > When we got home fada griped that he had missed some show on tv " for that stupid thing " .Meaning the ceremony or me,I couldn't tell but it felt like the same thing. > > I really hate both of them when I remember stuff like this. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 christine...it rips me apart to this day. amy Fwd: Re: Managing nada Amy,that's awesome that you were a competitive figure skater,how cool The similarities here are eerie again.I wanted to be a figure skater but never got farther than the lake near our house in wintertime because my parents totally ignored my ambition and I had no way of seeking training on my own.But nada would do the same thing,watch the Olympcis and comment on how beautiful the figure skaters were.At the time when I realized that I had some skating talent (feedback from kids/adults who saw me skating on the lake--nada would never come down to watch me) and foolishly told nada I wanted to be a figure skater,she ignored me completely BUT went out and got a " Dorothy Hammill " haircut and made a big deal of it,because she " really admired " Dorothy Hammill... That's terrible that your nada would watch figure skaters on tv and make glowing comments about them when she had disowned you while you were actually skating.I'm so sorry--that would make me die inside too. > > i was a competitive figure skater as an adult (age 17-24), but my mom didn't approve of my boyfriend, so she disowned me completely for all the years we skated together and dated. She never saw me skate...never would soften her heart, let down her guard, and just see me for who I was to her. That was years and years ago. > But now, she will watch the olympics and comment on how beautiful the figure skaters are. > I die inside. > Amy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 (((Amy)))...I'm sorry...you totally don't deserve to have your accomplishments used as a weapon to make you hurt.Nadas,grrrrrr...you achieved something fabulous,I'm so sorry that is a source of pain for you. > > christine...it rips me apart to this day. > amy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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