Re: Nada's writings to dad

[Guest guest]

Sounds like he was the type of person that likes " lame ducks " as a mate of mine

used to say. Someone who feels the need to rescue and help others and feels

worthwhile if they are making a difference in someones life by doing so. What a

shame that meant getting involved with a BP.

Having said that, I constantly find it amazing how many people look for a

partner in order to " fix " something in their life. To make them happy, to fill a

hole in their life, to patch up their self confidence, make them feel " whole " ,

to make them feel better about their future - all that sort of thing!! I have

several friends who are like this, and Im always telling them that they need to

get happy and fix the problems in their life FIRST. Otherwise they are asking

for trouble as they tend to attract bad types, and if the relationship breaks us

they will be in a worse state than they are now.

Still, it seems very common.

>

> I have accumlated some writings that my mother did and wrote about my father

and he about her.  Obviously caught up in FOG and her crazy world.  One of the

writings made it clear that she felt he 'rescued her' from a life of darkness

and misery.  Sounds very abnormal to me.  I don't look at it as a spouse to

rescue I look at a spouse as someone to share your life with good and bad. 

GRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr  ANyone else find this.

> Atleast dad's family got some of his stuff.

> Marie

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Marie,

My nada told me once that the only reason she married my father

was so that he would take her " away from her fat bitchy mother " .

My father was in the army at the time she met him, stationed on

the far side of the country from his home, so it wouldn't have

been hard for her to predict that he'd take her a long way away

if she could get him to marry her. She claims she never loved

him. I'm not sure that I believe it was quite as calculated as

she says, but I am quite sure she was using him to " rescue " her

from her hated family.

At 06:18 PM 10/19/2010 proflaf1 wrote:

>I have accumlated some writings that my mother did and wrote

>about my father and he about her. Obviously caught up in FOG

>and her crazy world. One of the writings made it clear that

>she felt he 'rescued her' from a life of darkness and

>misery. Sounds very abnormal to me. I don't look at it as a

>spouse to rescue I look at a spouse as someone to share your

>life with good and bad. GRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ANyone else find

>this.

>Atleast dad's family got some of his stuff.

>Marie

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

You have a healthy idea of marriage -- sharing your life with someone, I'm

assuming you mean no matter what comes and you do not mean stay in abusive

situations, etc.

I could be barking up the wrong tree here entirely, but when I read your entry I

thought in terms of transactional analysis.

You say your mother felt your father had " rescued her " from a life of darkness

and misery and you commented that it sounded very abnormal to you.  What comes

to mind is the drama triangle talked about in the theory of transactional

analysis.  Neither the " victim " nor the " rescuer " are blameless and both live

within the parameters of the drama triangle (victim, rescuer, persecutor) for a

variety of reasons and usually are not aware of what they are doing, exactly. 

It is like a game only they don't know they're playing.

 

The rescuer can be well-intentioned, can be loving, in fact.  But we have to

remember that part of loving is loving someone as he/she is and part of loving

is encouraging a loved one to be the best of whatever they are, to be

independent, to self-actualize.  The more we " do " for others, the less they are

eventually able to " do " for themselves because they forget how or lose

confidence.

People in the drama triangle shift between three roles. 

* Victim:  Someone who sees him/herself as a person without hope.  This

person

feels inadequate and is unable to take responsibility for him/herself.  They

feel pleasure when getting attention from those who feel sorry for them.  Some

people, in fact, feel obliged to " rescue " them and those people even sometimes

admire them for their " fortitude. "

* Victims are often helped by rescuers when they haven’t asked to be. There

are

situations in life where people are victims, for example someone who has been

burgled or assaulted, but in transactional analysis the victim contributes to

the game.

* They pass all responsibility for their well being to the rescuer, and don’t

try to overcome this oppression.

* Victims eventually persecute their rescuers.

* If we don’t want to be a victim we must stand up for ourselves and

demand not

to be rescued.

* Rescuer:  This sounds like a good guy/gal, right?  Actually, it is someone

who also has low self-worth feelings, low self-esteem.  These people constantly

run around looking for other people's problems so they can find " solutions " and

bolster their own sense of self-esteem and importance.

* Rescuers take full responsibility for the other person’s well

being, making

them feel as though they can’t help themselves.

* Rescuers keep others dependent on them and make them feel that they can’t

cope without us.

* Rescuers may struggle to take " no, don't rescue me, I can do this

myself "  for

an answer because they feel guilty when not playing the rescuing game. Victims

therefore have to be determined!

* Persecutor:  Brought up in a familial setting of blame, this person

displaces

their anger by turning it on others.  The persecutor doesn't like the victims,

who they see as sort of hapless creatures, and doesn't like the rescuers, who

they see as being hopeless.  But persecutors have no valid solutions either.

* Persecutors start off as rescuers or victims. Because rescuers have

assumed total responsibility for a victims well being, the victim will ask

questions of the rescuer. The rescuer tries to solve the questions and give

answers, but becomes increasingly frustrated when the victim rejects all of

these answers as being unhelpful. Rescuers then begin to persecute the victim.

This emphasises the fact that we shouldn’t try to rescue people who don’t

need

to be.

These people run around in circles playing one role and then the other.  They

don't recognize what is happening.  They don't understand it is their own

behavior that is affecting their relationships.  They don't see it is their own

need that affects their behavior.

 

So, they don't take responsibility for what is occurring.

 

No matter what position is played, victim, rescuer, or persecutor, all have one

intention and that is to make THEMSELVES feel better and they don't tackle the

underlying problem within or even recognize there is one.

________________________________

To: wtoadultchildren1

Sent: Tue, October 19, 2010 6:18:18 PM

Subject: Nada's writings to dad

 

I have accumlated some writings that my mother did and wrote about my father and

he about her.  Obviously caught up in FOG and her crazy world.  One of the

writings made it clear that she felt he 'rescued her' from a life of darkness

and misery.  Sounds very abnormal to me.  I don't look at it as a spouse to

rescue I look at a spouse as someone to share your life with good and bad. 

GRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr  ANyone else find this.

Atleast dad's family got some of his stuff.

Marie

[Guest guest]

Oh that's fantastic info Tiny P. Thank you. I'll read up on it!

>

>

> You have a healthy idea of marriage -- sharing your life with someone, I'm

> assuming you mean no matter what comes and you do not mean stay in abusive

> situations, etc.

>

> I could be barking up the wrong tree here entirely, but when I read your

> entry I

> thought in terms of transactional analysis.

>

> You say your mother felt your father had " rescued her " from a life of

> darkness

> and misery and you commented that it sounded very abnormal to you. What

> comes

> to mind is the drama triangle talked about in the theory of transactional

> analysis. Neither the " victim " nor the " rescuer " are blameless and both

> live

> within the parameters of the drama triangle (victim, rescuer, persecutor)

> for a

> variety of reasons and usually are not aware of what they are doing,

> exactly.

> It is like a game only they don't know they're playing.

>

> The rescuer can be well-intentioned, can be loving, in fact. But we have

> to

> remember that part of loving is loving someone as he/she is and part of

> loving

> is encouraging a loved one to be the best of whatever they are, to be

> independent, to self-actualize. The more we " do " for others, the less they

> are

> eventually able to " do " for themselves because they forget how or lose

> confidence.

>

> People in the drama triangle shift between three roles.

> * Victim: Someone who sees him/herself as a person without hope. This

> person

> feels inadequate and is unable to take responsibility for him/herself.

> They

> feel pleasure when getting attention from those who feel sorry for them.

> Some

> people, in fact, feel obliged to " rescue " them and those people even

> sometimes

> admire them for their " fortitude. "

> * Victims are often helped by rescuers when they haven’t asked to be. There

> are

> situations in life where people are victims, for example someone who has

> been

> burgled or assaulted, but in transactional analysis the victim contributes

> to

> the game.

>

> * They pass all responsibility for their well being to the rescuer, and

> don’t

> try to overcome this oppression.

>

> * Victims eventually persecute their rescuers.

> * If we don’t want to be a victim we must stand up for ourselves and demand

> not

> to be rescued.

> * Rescuer: This sounds like a good guy/gal, right? Actually, it is

> someone

> who also has low self-worth feelings, low self-esteem. These people

> constantly

> run around looking for other people's problems so they can find " solutions "

> and

> bolster their own sense of self-esteem and importance.

> * Rescuers take full responsibility for the other person’s well

> being, making

> them feel as though they can’t help themselves.

>

> * Rescuers keep others dependent on them and make them feel that they can’t

>

> cope without us.

> * Rescuers may struggle to take " no, don't rescue me, I can do this

> myself " for

> an answer because they feel guilty when not playing the rescuing game.

> Victims

> therefore have to be determined!

> * Persecutor: Brought up in a familial setting of blame, this person

> displaces

> their anger by turning it on others. The persecutor doesn't like the

> victims,

> who they see as sort of hapless creatures, and doesn't like the rescuers,

> who

> they see as being hopeless. But persecutors have no valid solutions

> either.

> * Persecutors start off as rescuers or victims. Because rescuers have

> assumed total responsibility for a victims well being, the victim will ask

> questions of the rescuer. The rescuer tries to solve the questions and give

>

> answers, but becomes increasingly frustrated when the victim rejects all of

>

> these answers as being unhelpful. Rescuers then begin to persecute the

> victim.

> This emphasises the fact that we shouldn’t try to rescue people who don’t

> need

> to be.

> These people run around in circles playing one role and then the other.

> They

> don't recognize what is happening. They don't understand it is their own

> behavior that is affecting their relationships. They don't see it is their

> own

> need that affects their behavior.

>

> So, they don't take responsibility for what is occurring.

>

> No matter what position is played, victim, rescuer, or persecutor, all have

> one

> intention and that is to make THEMSELVES feel better and they don't tackle

> the

> underlying problem within or even recognize there is one.

>

> ________________________________

> From: proflaf1 <proflaf1@... <proflaf1%40yahoo.com>>

> To: wtoadultchildren1 <wtoadultchildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Tue, October 19, 2010 6:18:18 PM

> Subject: Nada's writings to dad

>

>

>

> I have accumlated some writings that my mother did and wrote about my

> father and

> he about her. Obviously caught up in FOG and her crazy world. One of the

> writings made it clear that she felt he 'rescued her' from a life of

> darkness

> and misery. Sounds very abnormal to me. I don't look at it as a spouse to

>

> rescue I look at a spouse as someone to share your life with good and bad.

>

> GRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ANyone else find this.

>

> Atleast dad's family got some of his stuff.

> Marie

>

>

[Guest guest]

Good points here, wonder how many other 'waify'/'queen' NPD/BP nadas managed to

use this transactional anaysis to their advantage.  Alhtough after he died she

wanted me to be instant replacement, wanted me to fill her car up with gas for

her and do a lot of other things for her that were both inappropriate and to me

signaled that perhaps she needed to be in a home or apartment but what does the

kid know nothing because when I approached the subject with her doctors it was

oh no you hsould be telling her WHAT TO DO no DO IT FOR HER.

Thanks

proflaf

Subject: Re: Nada's writings to dad

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Tuesday, October 19, 2010, 9:47 PM

 

You have a healthy idea of marriage -- sharing your life with someone, I'm

assuming you mean no matter what comes and you do not mean stay in abusive

situations, etc.

I could be barking up the wrong tree here entirely, but when I read your entry I

thought in terms of transactional analysis.

You say your mother felt your father had " rescued her " from a life of darkness

and misery and you commented that it sounded very abnormal to you.  What comes

to mind is the drama triangle talked about in the theory of transactional

analysis.  Neither the " victim " nor the " rescuer " are blameless and both live

within the parameters of the drama triangle (victim, rescuer, persecutor) for a

variety of reasons and usually are not aware of what they are doing, exactly. 

It is like a game only they don't know they're playing.

 

The rescuer can be well-intentioned, can be loving, in fact.  But we have to

remember that part of loving is loving someone as he/she is and part of loving

is encouraging a loved one to be the best of whatever they are, to be

independent, to self-actualize.  The more we " do " for others, the less they are

eventually able to " do " for themselves because they forget how or lose

confidence.

People in the drama triangle shift between three roles. 

* Victim:  Someone who sees him/herself as a person without hope.  This

person

feels inadequate and is unable to take responsibility for him/herself.  They

feel pleasure when getting attention from those who feel sorry for them.  Some

people, in fact, feel obliged to " rescue " them and those people even sometimes

admire them for their " fortitude. "

* Victims are often helped by rescuers when they haven’t asked to be. There

are

situations in life where people are victims, for example someone who has been

burgled or assaulted, but in transactional analysis the victim contributes to

the game.

* They pass all responsibility for their well being to the rescuer, and don’t

try to overcome this oppression.

* Victims eventually persecute their rescuers.

* If we don’t want to be a victim we must stand up for ourselves and

demand not

to be rescued.

* Rescuer:  This sounds like a good guy/gal, right?  Actually, it is someone

who also has low self-worth feelings, low self-esteem.  These people constantly

run around looking for other people's problems so they can find " solutions " and

bolster their own sense of self-esteem and importance.

* Rescuers take full responsibility for the other person’s well

being, making

them feel as though they can’t help themselves.

* Rescuers keep others dependent on them and make them feel that they can’t

cope without us.

* Rescuers may struggle to take " no, don't rescue me, I can do this

myself "  for

an answer because they feel guilty when not playing the rescuing game. Victims

therefore have to be determined!

* Persecutor:  Brought up in a familial setting of blame, this person

displaces

their anger by turning it on others.  The persecutor doesn't like the victims,

who they see as sort of hapless creatures, and doesn't like the rescuers, who

they see as being hopeless.  But persecutors have no valid solutions either.

* Persecutors start off as rescuers or victims. Because rescuers have

assumed total responsibility for a victims well being, the victim will ask

questions of the rescuer. The rescuer tries to solve the questions and give

answers, but becomes increasingly frustrated when the victim rejects all of

these answers as being unhelpful. Rescuers then begin to persecute the victim.

This emphasises the fact that we shouldn’t try to rescue people who don’t

need

to be.

These people run around in circles playing one role and then the other.  They

don't recognize what is happening.  They don't understand it is their own

behavior that is affecting their relationships.  They don't see it is their own

need that affects their behavior.

 

So, they don't take responsibility for what is occurring.

 

No matter what position is played, victim, rescuer, or persecutor, all have one

intention and that is to make THEMSELVES feel better and they don't tackle the

underlying problem within or even recognize there is one.

________________________________

To: wtoadultchildren1

Sent: Tue, October 19, 2010 6:18:18 PM

Subject: Nada's writings to dad

 

I have accumlated some writings that my mother did and wrote about my father and

he about her.  Obviously caught up in FOG and her crazy world.  One of the

writings made it clear that she felt he 'rescued her' from a life of darkness

and misery.  Sounds very abnormal to me.  I don't look at it as a spouse to

rescue I look at a spouse as someone to share your life with good and bad. 

GRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr  ANyone else find this.

Atleast dad's family got some of his stuff.

Marie