Re: Upcoming Wedding with BPD Nada Problems

[Guest guest]

Hi Suki,

Welcome to the Group, to you and the other newcomers as well.

There are several members here who I'm sure can share their experiences with

trying to have a lovely wedding when a nada (bpd mother) is in the picture.

The bottom line is, you can't expect your bpd mom to behave in a normal,

healthy, rational way RE your wedding; you already know that

" normal/healthy/rational " is beyond her capabilities under even ordinary

circumstances because she is not mentally healthy.

So you just do the best you can with what you have.

You do have the power to choose to just remain calm and rational yourself,

though. You can choose to have your goals clearly in sight, you can choose not

to cave in to her irrational, unrealistic expectations, demands, and

manipulations, and above all, you can choose NOT to allow yourself to feel

misplaced and inappropriate guilt for something you didn't cause and can't cure:

your mother's mental illness.

You didn't make her that way, and you can't make her better. You can't even

make her happy; no matter how much you try you can't give her internal joy and

emotional health like a gift. She is the only one who CAN give herself a chance

at having a more normal level of emotional health by going into therapy and

sticking with it.

I suggest that you begin reading some of the many books about borderline pd, how

it affects the children of those with bpd, how to free yourself of codependency

(feeling inappropriately responsible for someone else's well-being), how to set

reasonable and rational boundaries (rules) and how to enforce them, etc.

The founder of this Group, Randi Kreger, has written a couple of good books

about managing a relationship with a bpd loved one. Although her books are

mostly geared toward chosen relationships, there is good information about

boundary-setting in " Stop Walking On Eggshells " .

Other good books are " Understanding The Borderline Mother " and " Surviving A

Borderline Parent " . Others here have listed other good books that have helped

them, too. There may be a list of recommended reading in the " Files " section;

I'll check that out.

Anyway, welcome. We get it. In a way, the members of this Group are sort of

like siblings because we're all KOs: the adult Kids Of bpd parents.

-Annie

>

> Hi Everyone!

>

> I am an adult child of a BPD mother (undiagnosed) and am a new member here, so

hi!

>

> My mother is an undiagnosed BP who, 2 years ago, had a major episode that

ended in suicidal threats. After I called the police as a direct reaction to her

threats, I was kicked out of her house and have lived with family/on my own ever

since. While eventually the " Major Meltdown of 2008 " did end, it was never

officially resolved, as my mother has since believed that no one in our family

actually loves each other and that we have no compassion. I discovered BPD

around that time and felt peace for the first time that this is an actual

disorder and not just a figment of my imagination.

>

> At this point, we are on the edge of another major episode. Currently, there

are a quite a few stressors that could/will turn into catalysts, such as: my

upcoming wedding that she can not help pay for (guilt toward herself and

resentment to my new, " perfect " family that I am marrying into), my father's

complete abandonment of her financially (they've been separated for nine

years!), her need to get a job, like, yesterday so she doesn't lose everything,

and her continued unfounded hatred toward my grandmother (textbook, much??)

>

> She is looking for a reason to not have any responsibility and to run away or

have someone else do it for her. She's attempting to create situations in which

we will react and show her we love her and will take care of everything for her.

Right now, she is convinced she is going to move to Boise, Idaho with

little-to-know money, tons of debt and then just, as she says, " start over. "

When I didn't play into this new plan and beg her to stay, and instead told her

I will visit often, she then came back with, " well, then I'm sorry I can't come

to your wedding because I can't be around your grandmother "

>

> Ugugghghg. Okay, really the problem I'm facing is: How do I handle this

situation without 1)playing into her hurtful words and falling down the rabbit

hole again, or 2)ignoring her hurtful words while trying not being an

incompassionate daughter during the most meaningful days of my life?? I realize

I'm new here, but any help is much appreciated!!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Annie! I appreciate the welcome and the helpful words. It is so

comforting to not be alone in this.

I do own " Stop Walking on Eggshells " and I've considered reading it again, but I

think I will explore the parent ones you suggested as well.

This situation has slightly progressed since I posted that inital topic. Now

Nada is going to sell as much as she can on Craigslist and move as fast as she

can. Of course, she is using my " evil " grandmother's money to do all of this,

because Gramma can't stop herself from trying to fix my mom herself

(financially, emotionally, mentally), which is sad to watch because it's killing

my grandmother.

I explained to my mom that I don't want her to go, but if she feels this is the

best choice, then I will support her and help as much as I can. Her response,

" Yes, as much as you CAN, but not as much as I NEED. " (oh, if she only knew how

true that is!!!!)

She no longer wants my help and I'm torn on how involved I should be. In the

2008 episode, I withdrew from her when she asked me to and then was blammed by

her for leaving a " sick person " all alone.

I don't want to feel sorry for myself in the middle of this, but I'm mad at her

for being SO SELFISH and ruining everyone else's lives by acting like a complete

child!! If she really did pack up and leave, maybe we could all breathe again

and try to be happy....

> >

> > Hi Everyone!

> >

> > I am an adult child of a BPD mother (undiagnosed) and am a new member here,

so hi!

> >

> > My mother is an undiagnosed BP who, 2 years ago, had a major episode that

ended in suicidal threats. After I called the police as a direct reaction to her

threats, I was kicked out of her house and have lived with family/on my own ever

since. While eventually the " Major Meltdown of 2008 " did end, it was never

officially resolved, as my mother has since believed that no one in our family

actually loves each other and that we have no compassion. I discovered BPD

around that time and felt peace for the first time that this is an actual

disorder and not just a figment of my imagination.

> >

> > At this point, we are on the edge of another major episode. Currently, there

are a quite a few stressors that could/will turn into catalysts, such as: my

upcoming wedding that she can not help pay for (guilt toward herself and

resentment to my new, " perfect " family that I am marrying into), my father's

complete abandonment of her financially (they've been separated for nine

years!), her need to get a job, like, yesterday so she doesn't lose everything,

and her continued unfounded hatred toward my grandmother (textbook, much??)

> >

> > She is looking for a reason to not have any responsibility and to run away

or have someone else do it for her. She's attempting to create situations in

which we will react and show her we love her and will take care of everything

for her. Right now, she is convinced she is going to move to Boise, Idaho with

little-to-know money, tons of debt and then just, as she says, " start over. "

When I didn't play into this new plan and beg her to stay, and instead told her

I will visit often, she then came back with, " well, then I'm sorry I can't come

to your wedding because I can't be around your grandmother "

> >

> > Ugugghghg. Okay, really the problem I'm facing is: How do I handle this

situation without 1)playing into her hurtful words and falling down the rabbit

hole again, or 2)ignoring her hurtful words while trying not being an

incompassionate daughter during the most meaningful days of my life?? I realize

I'm new here, but any help is much appreciated!!

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My advice would be to concentrate on yourself, your wedding and enjoying life.

If she wishes to be a nutbar, let her. If she wants to move, let her. She doesnt

give a rabbits backside what you want, and it doesnt matter how much you try to

show her you care, she will still accuse you of not caring enough.

Cut down the visits and conversations to the point where you have enough time

between each to get over the stress and wind down. For me it takes a good week

before I stop thinking about what she said/did/bitched about etc and I can put

my attention fully back on my own life, so seeing her more than once every 2

weeks has been a big no-no for years.

Any mother turns into a rabid, unreasonable, pain in the ass when it comes to

weddings - a mother with BP will be worse. Anticipate it, dont expect hugs and

smiles and care, find someone else who will do that for you, and do whatever you

need to do to keep your sanity so she doesnt stress you out too much. She WILL

try to ruin your mood, she WILL try to make it all about her, so being prepared

is the best defense. My mother was a complete psycho when I got married, to the

point where I postponed it 3 times and banned her from coming in the end. I

think I would handle it better now!

Best of luck!! May the force be with you! lol!

>

>

>

> Thank you Annie! I appreciate the welcome and the helpful words. It is so

comforting to not be alone in this.

>

> I do own " Stop Walking on Eggshells " and I've considered reading it again, but

I think I will explore the parent ones you suggested as well.

>

> This situation has slightly progressed since I posted that inital topic. Now

Nada is going to sell as much as she can on Craigslist and move as fast as she

can. Of course, she is using my " evil " grandmother's money to do all of this,

because Gramma can't stop herself from trying to fix my mom herself

(financially, emotionally, mentally), which is sad to watch because it's killing

my grandmother.

>

> I explained to my mom that I don't want her to go, but if she feels this is

the best choice, then I will support her and help as much as I can. Her

response, " Yes, as much as you CAN, but not as much as I NEED. " (oh, if she only

knew how true that is!!!!)

>

> She no longer wants my help and I'm torn on how involved I should be. In the

2008 episode, I withdrew from her when she asked me to and then was blammed by

her for leaving a " sick person " all alone.

>

> I don't want to feel sorry for myself in the middle of this, but I'm mad at

her for being SO SELFISH and ruining everyone else's lives by acting like a

complete child!! If she really did pack up and leave, maybe we could all breathe

again and try to be happy....

[Guest guest]

We're here to help each other, so I'm glad if anything I suggested can help you.

For me, the key is all about being able to detach emotionally from the bpd

parent. Becoming emotionally detached isn't an all-or-nothing thing or an

instant thing. I think its achieved by degrees.

Becoming emotionally detached isn't mean or hateful, its just not taking the bpd

parent's negative, selfish behaviors personally any longer, and not feeling

responsible for the bpd's feelings or behaviors. Its letting go.

Its deciding that you don't need for her to be pleased with you, to approve of

or validate what you're doing or not doing, while at the same time wishing her

well in her life. Its stepping away from the drama so that she can't pull you

into it, and letting her figure out what to do on her own.

I'm not sure I actually love my mother any longer, I truly don't know, but I do

know that I don't hate her, I don't wish her harm, and I know that I do pity

her. But I also know that she seems to have a need to hurt me and I won't let

her do that anymore, that's the line drawn on the ground that she can't cross.

My Sister intuitively understood this need to pull back emotionally for

self-protection years before I did. She told me that she had gotten to the

point where she thinks of our mother as just one of her clients, and she's there

to help the client without becoming emotionally involved or enmeshed with the

client.

When you're the adult child of a mother who is essentially a bottomless vacuum:

an empty and unfillable black hole of emotional need, who also feels angry,

frustrated and resentful of her children for not fulfilling her needs and making

her perfectly happy, and therefor feels justified in punishing her children for

being so imperfect and disappointing, then, emotional detachment becomes a

necessary survival mechanism.

Protecting yourself from harm isn't wrong. Pulling away emotionally from an

abusive parent does not make you a bad person or a bad daughter. Choosing to

fulfill your own destiny and not sacrificing yourself on the altar of your

mother's mental illness does not make you a bad person or a bad daughter.

If your mother was mentally healthy, she would want you to have a wonderful

wedding and a joyful, self-reliant, interesting, and independent adult married

life apart from her.

-Annie

> > >

> > > Hi Everyone!

> > >

> > > I am an adult child of a BPD mother (undiagnosed) and am a new member

here, so hi!

> > >

> > > My mother is an undiagnosed BP who, 2 years ago, had a major episode that

ended in suicidal threats. After I called the police as a direct reaction to her

threats, I was kicked out of her house and have lived with family/on my own ever

since. While eventually the " Major Meltdown of 2008 " did end, it was never

officially resolved, as my mother has since believed that no one in our family

actually loves each other and that we have no compassion. I discovered BPD

around that time and felt peace for the first time that this is an actual

disorder and not just a figment of my imagination.

> > >

> > > At this point, we are on the edge of another major episode. Currently,

there are a quite a few stressors that could/will turn into catalysts, such as:

my upcoming wedding that she can not help pay for (guilt toward herself and

resentment to my new, " perfect " family that I am marrying into), my father's

complete abandonment of her financially (they've been separated for nine

years!), her need to get a job, like, yesterday so she doesn't lose everything,

and her continued unfounded hatred toward my grandmother (textbook, much??)

> > >

> > > She is looking for a reason to not have any responsibility and to run away

or have someone else do it for her. She's attempting to create situations in

which we will react and show her we love her and will take care of everything

for her. Right now, she is convinced she is going to move to Boise, Idaho with

little-to-know money, tons of debt and then just, as she says, " start over. "

When I didn't play into this new plan and beg her to stay, and instead told her

I will visit often, she then came back with, " well, then I'm sorry I can't come

to your wedding because I can't be around your grandmother "

> > >

> > > Ugugghghg. Okay, really the problem I'm facing is: How do I handle this

situation without 1)playing into her hurtful words and falling down the rabbit

hole again, or 2)ignoring her hurtful words while trying not being an

incompassionate daughter during the most meaningful days of my life?? I realize

I'm new here, but any help is much appreciated!!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Crazy,

It takes me a week too to get over all the crazy horrible things they do and

say. A whole week. Glad it's not just me.

On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 8:43 PM, crazy150345 wrote:

>

>

> My advice would be to concentrate on yourself, your wedding and enjoying

> life. If she wishes to be a nutbar, let her. If she wants to move, let her.

> She doesnt give a rabbits backside what you want, and it doesnt matter how

> much you try to show her you care, she will still accuse you of not caring

> enough.

>

> Cut down the visits and conversations to the point where you have enough

> time between each to get over the stress and wind down. For me it takes a

> good week before I stop thinking about what she said/did/bitched about etc

> and I can put my attention fully back on my own life, so seeing her more

> than once every 2 weeks has been a big no-no for years.

>

> Any mother turns into a rabid, unreasonable, pain in the ass when it comes

> to weddings - a mother with BP will be worse. Anticipate it, dont expect

> hugs and smiles and care, find someone else who will do that for you, and do

> whatever you need to do to keep your sanity so she doesnt stress you out too

> much. She WILL try to ruin your mood, she WILL try to make it all about her,

> so being prepared is the best defense. My mother was a complete psycho when

> I got married, to the point where I postponed it 3 times and banned her from

> coming in the end. I think I would handle it better now!

>

> Best of luck!! May the force be with you! lol!

>

>

> >

> >

> >

> > Thank you Annie! I appreciate the welcome and the helpful words. It is so

> comforting to not be alone in this.

> >

> > I do own " Stop Walking on Eggshells " and I've considered reading it

> again, but I think I will explore the parent ones you suggested as well.

> >

> > This situation has slightly progressed since I posted that inital topic.

> Now Nada is going to sell as much as she can on Craigslist and move as fast

> as she can. Of course, she is using my " evil " grandmother's money to do all

> of this, because Gramma can't stop herself from trying to fix my mom herself

> (financially, emotionally, mentally), which is sad to watch because it's

> killing my grandmother.

> >

> > I explained to my mom that I don't want her to go, but if she feels this

> is the best choice, then I will support her and help as much as I can. Her

> response, " Yes, as much as you CAN, but not as much as I NEED. " (oh, if she

> only knew how true that is!!!!)

> >

> > She no longer wants my help and I'm torn on how involved I should be. In

> the 2008 episode, I withdrew from her when she asked me to and then was

> blammed by her for leaving a " sick person " all alone.

> >

> > I don't want to feel sorry for myself in the middle of this, but I'm mad

> at her for being SO SELFISH and ruining everyone else's lives by acting like

> a complete child!! If she really did pack up and leave, maybe we could all

> breathe again and try to be happy....

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hahah.. The " nutbar " comment actually made me laugh out loud. Thank you! hah..

Yes, I'm trying to remember that I need to seek love and support from those I

know can provide it. Smart suggestion to cut down and limit visits. Right now,

I'm trying to only call every couple days to create distance but still have

enough energy left to care. I realized the last time we went through this that

if I can't take care of myself then she really will have an empty hollow

daughter.

The whole thing plays out like a self-fullfilling prophesy. She says I dislike

her and pushes me away until I really do dislike her and just want to leave!!

It's like watching a movie where the characters are making all the wrong

choices. If they could only hear me yelling through the screen, they would stop

and realize what's happening!!

Mom says that by being more upset about her comment about not coming to the

wedding than her actually leaving then I'm a selfish daughter. To me they are

completely different. If she has to make a choice to leave to calm herself and

find a healthier environment, then that's sad but ultimately good. If she

decides to not come to the wedding, that's just spiteful, selfish and mean

spirited. What I think she won't admit is that going to Idaho is meant to be a

spiteful act, not a healthy one, since she doesn't think anything is wrong with

her.

> >

> >

> >

> > Thank you Annie! I appreciate the welcome and the helpful words. It is so

comforting to not be alone in this.

> >

> > I do own " Stop Walking on Eggshells " and I've considered reading it again,

but I think I will explore the parent ones you suggested as well.

> >

> > This situation has slightly progressed since I posted that inital topic. Now

Nada is going to sell as much as she can on Craigslist and move as fast as she

can. Of course, she is using my " evil " grandmother's money to do all of this,

because Gramma can't stop herself from trying to fix my mom herself

(financially, emotionally, mentally), which is sad to watch because it's killing

my grandmother.

> >

> > I explained to my mom that I don't want her to go, but if she feels this is

the best choice, then I will support her and help as much as I can. Her

response, " Yes, as much as you CAN, but not as much as I NEED. " (oh, if she only

knew how true that is!!!!)

> >

> > She no longer wants my help and I'm torn on how involved I should be. In the

2008 episode, I withdrew from her when she asked me to and then was blammed by

her for leaving a " sick person " all alone.

> >

> > I don't want to feel sorry for myself in the middle of this, but I'm mad at

her for being SO SELFISH and ruining everyone else's lives by acting like a

complete child!! If she really did pack up and leave, maybe we could all breathe

again and try to be happy....

>

[Guest guest]

From my perspective of objectivity (like you described when you watch a movie on

TV) I think possibly you are buying your mother's definitions and rules of the

game, so to speak. My impression is that you are still feeling a need to be

attached to her, possibly feeling responsible for her well-being, so in that way

you are making yourself vulnerable to misplaced feelings of guilt and to being

mistreated.

Maybe you can reduce the amount of time she mistreats you by phone, at any rate,

by making a boundary or a rule to use when you talk to your mother: no

discussing your wedding. That's simply not a topic that is available for

discussion. Whenever she brings it up, change the subject. Distract her by

asking her about something she enjoys or is interested in.

If she is persistent and only wants to speak of negative things, only wants to

accuse you of being bad/hateful, wants to denigrate you/your fiancee, then you

can cut the call short by saying something like, " I can hear that you're feeling

stressed and upset right now, so, I'll talk to you later when you're feeling

better. 'Bye. "

The idea is to reward your mother with your time and attention when she is calm

& not being hostile, instead of just make yourself an available and willing

target for her venom and negativity.

Detach emotionally as much as you can. Then what she says or doesn't say, and

what she does or doesn't do to you can't hurt you as much.

You didn't make her the way she is, and you can't cure her. You can't make her

happy. All you can do is decide how much of her negative, toxic,

self-destructive behaviors you yourself can tolerate.

-Annie

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Thank you Annie! I appreciate the welcome and the helpful words. It is so

comforting to not be alone in this.

> > >

> > > I do own " Stop Walking on Eggshells " and I've considered reading it again,

but I think I will explore the parent ones you suggested as well.

> > >

> > > This situation has slightly progressed since I posted that inital topic.

Now Nada is going to sell as much as she can on Craigslist and move as fast as

she can. Of course, she is using my " evil " grandmother's money to do all of

this, because Gramma can't stop herself from trying to fix my mom herself

(financially, emotionally, mentally), which is sad to watch because it's killing

my grandmother.

> > >

> > > I explained to my mom that I don't want her to go, but if she feels this

is the best choice, then I will support her and help as much as I can. Her

response, " Yes, as much as you CAN, but not as much as I NEED. " (oh, if she only

knew how true that is!!!!)

> > >

> > > She no longer wants my help and I'm torn on how involved I should be. In

the 2008 episode, I withdrew from her when she asked me to and then was blammed

by her for leaving a " sick person " all alone.

> > >

> > > I don't want to feel sorry for myself in the middle of this, but I'm mad

at her for being SO SELFISH and ruining everyone else's lives by acting like a

complete child!! If she really did pack up and leave, maybe we could all breathe

again and try to be happy....

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well, really the problem with with Nada right now hasn't really involved the

actual wedding planning yet. It's just touched on it lightly and I'm trying to

stop it before it starts. Since everything my mom is doing is so predictable,

I'd like to use that to my advantage.

The thing that mom WANTS is for us to only constantly talk about how our family

is broken, incompassionate and cold. She says she doesn't want us to take sides,

but then she wants us to stick up for her to Gramma and tell Gramma she is a

mean evil old woman. If I call mom to talk about anything BUT her constant pain

and sense of betrayal, then I'm a spineless coward, avoiding the problem. As far

as she is concerned, right now there is NO topic except her pain and our sick

family.

Here is what I've attempted so far, which has or has not yeilded results:

- Don't let her tell stories. She goes on rants about " Gma did this and isn't

that evil?? " So I stop her and say " you are getting yourself riled up. These are

the same stories as always. You are an adult, what are you going to do to keep

Gma from hurting you? " Essentially, I'm trying to put the responsibility on Mom

to take care of her problem.

- Insist that I am not involved in the arguement between her and Gma and that

it's inappropriate for me to be since it's between them. I remind her that

healthy families don't all jump in each other's business all the time and that

boundries are good.

- Offer my support for the good decisions she makes, but make no definative

suggestions for what she should do so that she is ultimatly responsibile

- Listen, but only until she becomes hurtful and mean spirited. At that time,

tell her I need to go but I will talk with her when she's not so upset.

Like I said, these things are mostly working, but they will only work for so

long. After I was kicked out two years ago, I realize how deeply co-dependant my

actions toward my mother were, to the point of being kinda creepy. I was so

freaked out by the realization that I have a complete aversion to ever getting

sucked in again. I just want to make sure I'm not being like her in an

all-or-nothing attitude.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Thank you Annie! I appreciate the welcome and the helpful words. It is

so comforting to not be alone in this.

> > > >

> > > > I do own " Stop Walking on Eggshells " and I've considered reading it

again, but I think I will explore the parent ones you suggested as well.

> > > >

> > > > This situation has slightly progressed since I posted that inital topic.

Now Nada is going to sell as much as she can on Craigslist and move as fast as

she can. Of course, she is using my " evil " grandmother's money to do all of

this, because Gramma can't stop herself from trying to fix my mom herself

(financially, emotionally, mentally), which is sad to watch because it's killing

my grandmother.

> > > >

> > > > I explained to my mom that I don't want her to go, but if she feels this

is the best choice, then I will support her and help as much as I can. Her

response, " Yes, as much as you CAN, but not as much as I NEED. " (oh, if she only

knew how true that is!!!!)

> > > >

> > > > She no longer wants my help and I'm torn on how involved I should be. In

the 2008 episode, I withdrew from her when she asked me to and then was blammed

by her for leaving a " sick person " all alone.

> > > >

> > > > I don't want to feel sorry for myself in the middle of this, but I'm mad

at her for being SO SELFISH and ruining everyone else's lives by acting like a

complete child!! If she really did pack up and leave, maybe we could all breathe

again and try to be happy....

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

From what you describe, it seems to me that you're honing in on a tolerable

middle ground; you are already doing all you really can do to stay connected

with your mother but without becoming enmeshed with or codependent with her

again.

You're not letting her go on and on with negative comments about you or your

grandmother/the family, you're not responding to or reinforcing her negativity,

and you gently cut the calls short when that's all she wants to do is be

negative. You give her positive feedback for the good decisions she makes.

You are not spineless and you are not being unkind just because you're not

agreeing to be her " hit man " and attack other members of the family for her.

You already realize that that is just her " black and white " bpd-think aka

cognitive distortion: she can only perceive that you're either totally for her

or totally against her. She can't perceive any gray areas.

You're already doing all you CAN do, truly. You haven't cut her out of your

life entirely, but you're not letting her control you, either; you're still

feeling misplaced guilt, but, maybe that just makes you human.

For some of us, sad as it is, this IS as good as it gets.

-Annie

>

> Well, really the problem with with Nada right now hasn't really involved the

actual wedding planning yet. It's just touched on it lightly and I'm trying to

stop it before it starts. Since everything my mom is doing is so predictable,

I'd like to use that to my advantage.

>

> The thing that mom WANTS is for us to only constantly talk about how our

family is broken, incompassionate and cold. She says she doesn't want us to take

sides, but then she wants us to stick up for her to Gramma and tell Gramma she

is a mean evil old woman. If I call mom to talk about anything BUT her constant

pain and sense of betrayal, then I'm a spineless coward, avoiding the problem.

As far as she is concerned, right now there is NO topic except her pain and our

sick family.

>

> Here is what I've attempted so far, which has or has not yeilded results:

> - Don't let her tell stories. She goes on rants about " Gma did this and isn't

that evil?? " So I stop her and say " you are getting yourself riled up. These are

the same stories as always. You are an adult, what are you going to do to keep

Gma from hurting you? " Essentially, I'm trying to put the responsibility on Mom

to take care of her problem.

> - Insist that I am not involved in the arguement between her and Gma and that

it's inappropriate for me to be since it's between them. I remind her that

healthy families don't all jump in each other's business all the time and that

boundries are good.

> - Offer my support for the good decisions she makes, but make no definative

suggestions for what she should do so that she is ultimatly responsibile

> - Listen, but only until she becomes hurtful and mean spirited. At that time,

tell her I need to go but I will talk with her when she's not so upset.

>

>

> Like I said, these things are mostly working, but they will only work for so

long. After I was kicked out two years ago, I realize how deeply co-dependant my

actions toward my mother were, to the point of being kinda creepy. I was so

freaked out by the realization that I have a complete aversion to ever getting

sucked in again. I just want to make sure I'm not being like her in an

all-or-nothing attitude.

[Guest guest]

I couldn't agree more with Annie's comments. It sounds like you are doing

everything you could possibly do. I have been stuck for many years trying to

figure out how to improve the dynamics with my nada and figuring out what to

say/not say what I am just now trying to come to grips with is that this is

futile. The reality is that no matter how effectively I manage saying " the

right thing, " setting effective boundaries, etc. the reality is that nada will

continue and I can only control what I say and how I respond. I have to

continually detach during conversation/interactions and remember that this is it

she is NOT going to change. It sounds to me like you are struggling with the

same thing I am, which is hoping that if you figured out exactly how to respond

nada would be less argumentative/more supportive/not make things so difficult

for you. With a heavy heart, I say that this is highly unlikely to happen

It sounds like you are doing the BEST you can with the hand you were dealt. Keep

setting those limits! Just know it will continue to be difficult and she will

likely keep doing what she has always done... just take care of yourself to not

let it affect you!

OK, easier said than done. I will try to remember my own advice

> >

> > Well, really the problem with with Nada right now hasn't really involved the

actual wedding planning yet. It's just touched on it lightly and I'm trying to

stop it before it starts. Since everything my mom is doing is so predictable,

I'd like to use that to my advantage.

> >

> > The thing that mom WANTS is for us to only constantly talk about how our

family is broken, incompassionate and cold. She says she doesn't want us to take

sides, but then she wants us to stick up for her to Gramma and tell Gramma she

is a mean evil old woman. If I call mom to talk about anything BUT her constant

pain and sense of betrayal, then I'm a spineless coward, avoiding the problem.

As far as she is concerned, right now there is NO topic except her pain and our

sick family.

> >

> > Here is what I've attempted so far, which has or has not yeilded results:

> > - Don't let her tell stories. She goes on rants about " Gma did this and

isn't that evil?? " So I stop her and say " you are getting yourself riled up.

These are the same stories as always. You are an adult, what are you going to do

to keep Gma from hurting you? " Essentially, I'm trying to put the responsibility

on Mom to take care of her problem.

> > - Insist that I am not involved in the arguement between her and Gma and

that it's inappropriate for me to be since it's between them. I remind her that

healthy families don't all jump in each other's business all the time and that

boundries are good.

> > - Offer my support for the good decisions she makes, but make no definative

suggestions for what she should do so that she is ultimatly responsibile

> > - Listen, but only until she becomes hurtful and mean spirited. At that

time, tell her I need to go but I will talk with her when she's not so upset.

> >

> >

> > Like I said, these things are mostly working, but they will only work for so

long. After I was kicked out two years ago, I realize how deeply co-dependant my

actions toward my mother were, to the point of being kinda creepy. I was so

freaked out by the realization that I have a complete aversion to ever getting

sucked in again. I just want to make sure I'm not being like her in an

all-or-nothing attitude.

>

[Guest guest]

ha! I know what you mean! Ive told my partner that if I ever become like my

mother Id like to be smacked over the back of the head with a shovel, and buried

out the back under a frangipani please.

....

> Like I said, these things are mostly working, but they will only work for so

long. After I was kicked out two years ago, I realize how deeply co-dependant my

actions toward my mother were, to the point of being kinda creepy. I was so

freaked out by the realization that I have a complete aversion to ever getting

sucked in again. I just want to make sure I'm not being like her in an

all-or-nothing attitude.

>

[Guest guest]

Hey ,

I feel your pain, totally. My mother also suffers from undiagnosed BPD. It's not

fun. There's so much drama in my family, and in my friendships because I grew up

to be a magnet for users as a result of being my mother's daughter, one of my

bridesmaids joked that they should make a reality TV show revolving totally

around my wedding. And she was probably right.

You sound like you've got a really good plan, though, staying out of the

argument between her and G'ma and trying to nip any controversy and complaining

in the bud. One of the problems I've noticed in many people, which you may wish

to be aware of (not sure if it's needed, since I don't know you) is the tendency

to take a strategy which " has or has not yielded results " and give up on it as

soon as it isn't working. My husband does this a lot trying to deal with my

depression - I'll tell him a strategy, and he'll try it, then give up the first

time it doesn't work. Sometimes sustaining a response consistently is necessary

to get the desired result.

Being a compassionate daughter is a good thing, but I know there's a line beyond

which compassion becomes doormat-ness. I know it well because I'm usually on the

doormat side lately. It sounds like you have a fairly good sense of where you

don't want to get involved, which is awesome. Just keep remembering that your

wedding day is about the new family you're creating together and the new life

you're starting with your husband-to-be. Make that the focal point and surround

yourself with people who support you in that goal. That's the best advice I can

offer.

Psyclone

[Guest guest]

What's a frangipani, love?

On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 6:26 AM, psyclone47@...

wrote:

>

>

> Hey ,

>

> I feel your pain, totally. My mother also suffers from undiagnosed BPD.

> It's not fun. There's so much drama in my family, and in my friendships

> because I grew up to be a magnet for users as a result of being my mother's

> daughter, one of my bridesmaids joked that they should make a reality TV

> show revolving totally around my wedding. And she was probably right.

>

> You sound like you've got a really good plan, though, staying out of the

> argument between her and G'ma and trying to nip any controversy and

> complaining in the bud. One of the problems I've noticed in many people,

> which you may wish to be aware of (not sure if it's needed, since I don't

> know you) is the tendency to take a strategy which " has or has not yielded

> results " and give up on it as soon as it isn't working. My husband does this

> a lot trying to deal with my depression - I'll tell him a strategy, and

> he'll try it, then give up the first time it doesn't work. Sometimes

> sustaining a response consistently is necessary to get the desired result.

>

> Being a compassionate daughter is a good thing, but I know there's a line

> beyond which compassion becomes doormat-ness. I know it well because I'm

> usually on the doormat side lately. It sounds like you have a fairly good

> sense of where you don't want to get involved, which is awesome. Just keep

> remembering that your wedding day is about the new family you're creating

> together and the new life you're starting with your husband-to-be. Make that

> the focal point and surround yourself with people who support you in that

> goal. That's the best advice I can offer.

>

> Psyclone

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Just a thought - and I'm sorry if someone already said this. But, if she

says she can't come to your wedding, let her stay away. Hold her to it. I'm

pretty sure she won't be able to stay away. My BPD-or-something-worse ex

mother-in-law was in a similar position when I decided to open wedding gifts

at a time and place that suited me - not her. Guess what - she said she

wouldn't come, but in the end, she wouldn't have missed that opportunity to

make a scene and behave in an ugly manner in front of an audience for the

WORLD! She wasn't welcome, but she showed up.

On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 6:58 AM, Girlscout Cowboy <girlscout.cowboy@...

> wrote:

> What's a frangipani, love?

>

>

> On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 6:26 AM, psyclone47@... <psyclone47@...

> > wrote:

>

>>

>>

>> Hey ,

>>

>> I feel your pain, totally. My mother also suffers from undiagnosed BPD.

>> It's not fun. There's so much drama in my family, and in my friendships

>> because I grew up to be a magnet for users as a result of being my mother's

>> daughter, one of my bridesmaids joked that they should make a reality TV

>> show revolving totally around my wedding. And she was probably right.

>>

>> You sound like you've got a really good plan, though, staying out of the

>> argument between her and G'ma and trying to nip any controversy and

>> complaining in the bud. One of the problems I've noticed in many people,

>> which you may wish to be aware of (not sure if it's needed, since I don't

>> know you) is the tendency to take a strategy which " has or has not yielded

>> results " and give up on it as soon as it isn't working. My husband does this

>> a lot trying to deal with my depression - I'll tell him a strategy, and

>> he'll try it, then give up the first time it doesn't work. Sometimes

>> sustaining a response consistently is necessary to get the desired result.

>>

>> Being a compassionate daughter is a good thing, but I know there's a line

>> beyond which compassion becomes doormat-ness. I know it well because I'm

>> usually on the doormat side lately. It sounds like you have a fairly good

>> sense of where you don't want to get involved, which is awesome. Just keep

>> remembering that your wedding day is about the new family you're creating

>> together and the new life you're starting with your husband-to-be. Make that

>> the focal point and surround yourself with people who support you in that

>> goal. That's the best advice I can offer.

>>

>> Psyclone

>>

>>

>>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I grew up to be a magnet for users as a result of being my mother's daughter

--------------------------------------------------------

Magnet for users....that's me alright!

My husband and I made friends with another couple from church who are also empty

nesters and the four of us seemed to get along just fine and enjoy each other's

company. However eventually this couple discovered we each possessed a wealth

of knowledge and skill that they found beneficial to them. One or two friendly

and seemingly innocent requests for assistance, which we did not mind doing for

friends, quickly transformed them into helpless waifs who needed our help time

and time again. Yuck! And as soon as I started pulling back from Mrs User, Mr

User was on the phone to my husband with yet more requests. When my husband

denied Mr's request, Mrs User was bombarding me with email, voice mail and is

stalking me on Facebook.

When I informed Mrs User that I was very busy and would call her when I had the

chance, she texted to tell me she feels like a Step-Friend.

What a drama queen! Yuck! Of course I've not called her and don't think I ever

will again.

Anyone have any suggestions on how to spot the users before they suck you in,

much less start draining the life out of you?

K

[Guest guest]

My nada began causing drama around her grandson's wedding several months ahead

of the event. Nada (for reasons unknown) had a rage/tantrum meltdown and

accused her grandson of only coming to see her if he wanted something and said

she would boycott his wedding. This accusation was made in the presence of my

Sister, the young man's mother, and that's what caused Sister to basically

" divorce " nada (but Sister resumed limited contact a year or so later, during

nada's second round of therapy.)

Sister decided to hold nada to her word; Sister canceled nada's plane ticket,

gave nada her money back (Sister even replaced the penalty fees herself, so nada

didn't lose a penny on the transaction) and informed the bride-to-be's parents

that nada had to decline attending but sent her best wishes.

Of course, a week or two later nada claimed that she had never said any such

ugly, hateful thing about her grandson, had never said she would boycott the

wedding, that Sister was insane and had deliberately dis-invited nada to her

only grandchild's wedding out of pure mean-ness.

Nada sent the engaged couple a wedding card several weeks early, with a generous

check in it, probably hoping to be re-invited, but nothing happened because

nephew and fiancee chose to wait to open it, I believe.

Sister had washed her hands of nada for the time being and refused to get

involved with getting nada re-invited or getting her a new plane ticket. Nada

hates traveling alone so much (for various reasons its difficult for her) that

there was little chance that nada would make the arrangements herself and travel

overseas all on her own.

I personally was extremely grateful that the situation panned out the way it

did. I had discovered in earlier years that something about overseas travel

really triggers and stresses my nada to the max; the three times I took her with

me on overseas trips were disasters (even when she brought a companion with her

so she'd never be alone for one moment). Nada had some form of hysteria fit or

delusion or psychotic break with reality each damned time.

So not having nada at the wedding was truly a blessing.

My suggestion is that if your nada chooses to boycott your wedding, accept this

as a generous gift on her part.

-Annie

>

> Just a thought - and I'm sorry if someone already said this. But, if she

> says she can't come to your wedding, let her stay away. Hold her to it. I'm

> pretty sure she won't be able to stay away. My BPD-or-something-worse ex

> mother-in-law was in a similar position when I decided to open wedding gifts

> at a time and place that suited me - not her. Guess what - she said she

> wouldn't come, but in the end, she wouldn't have missed that opportunity to

> make a scene and behave in an ugly manner in front of an audience for the

> WORLD! She wasn't welcome, but she showed up.

[Guest guest]

For me, two signs that I'm wary about in combination are: (a) someone who is too

friendly too fast, and ( someone who asks for a favor practically right off

the bat. That combo has usually turned out to not be a true, long-lasting

friend, just someone who wants to use me.

These behaviors occur sometimes in combination with gift-giving too early in the

relationship as well; I find that a red flag in most cases. Too much, too soon.

Overly-generous gift-giving too early in a relationship is a way of making you

feel indebted or obligated to return the gesture in kind even if you don't feel

that you want to.

I've had much more luck in making and keeping friends who want to take it

slowly, allowing us get to know each other over a longer period of time, without

asking favors or giving gifts too early.

Of course, you also need to be able to say " no " in a gentle and kindly way

before the new friend has a chance to drain you dry. Like you said: one time is

a favor that you'd do for any friend, but asking for the same favor again, and

again is using you.

Maybe use the " third time is a charm " technique. Once, OK. Twice, be on your

alert. The third time they ask again for the free favor, then your response is,

" I'm sorry, but I can't help you this time; here is the number of a good

service/professional/workman in your area that can help you with that " and see

what happens.

-Annie

>

> Anyone have any suggestions on how to spot the users before they suck you in,

much less start draining the life out of you?

>

> K

>

[Guest guest]

Annie,

Looking back at this couple I wrote about, I barely knew her when she asked me

to come over to help her prepare food for the baby shower she was hosting for

her dil. There was my first red flag that something wasn't right. Now I

understand why she has few friends.

Great advice. Thanks.

K

> >

> > Anyone have any suggestions on how to spot the users before they suck you

in, much less start draining the life out of you?

> >

> > K

> >

>

[Guest guest]

i've said the exact words to my husband except i didn't say frangipani!!

Re: Upcoming Wedding with BPD Nada Problems

ha! I know what you mean! Ive told my partner that if I ever become like my

mother Id like to be smacked over the back of the head with a shovel, and buried

out the back under a frangipani please.

....

> Like I said, these things are mostly working, but they will only work for so

long. After I was kicked out two years ago, I realize how deeply co-dependant my

actions toward my mother were, to the point of being kinda creepy. I was so

freaked out by the realization that I have a complete aversion to ever getting

sucked in again. I just want to make sure I'm not being like her in an

all-or-nothing attitude.

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I have considered that. And as Annie said, I think this is actually a gift

if she ends up not coming. Everyone is saying that it won't last and I'm

absolutely sure that at some point she will come up with some condition that

makes it acceptable for her to come. My mother is VERY into creating intelligent

" conditions " for everything to make it okay that she is acting however she

wants. For example, at this point, she has riled everyone up so much and made us

so mad that she is now 'forced' to move to Idaho where people love her. But she

doesn't really want to go, as we all know, so now she claims she MUST stay

because her house is about to get foreclosed on and it would break her heart if,

when she moved, my father were able to move in and take it over.

Right now, I am not discussing wedding things with Nada. If she doesn't want to

come to the wedding, I think it's inappropriate and rude for her to expect that

she will still get the priviledges of a mother of the bride when she certainly

isn't acting like one! I don't want to be a snotty-bride and pretend that this

needs to be the most important thing in everyone else's life, but to expect that

my own mother not use my wedding to emotionally blackmail me is not pushy in the

least. I'm trying very hard not to react to it, though, because I know this is

her sickness talking and that what she is looking for is my extreme reaction.

The other day we spoke and she mentioned her intentions to not come and I simply

said, " I'm still trying to figure out how I feel about that, " to which she

responded empathetically, " I'm sure you are honey " GAG!!!!!! At least I have

moments like that to remind me this is truly just sick.

Thanks again for all your encouraging words. It just helps to hear someone else

say the things you need to hear!

> >

> >>

> >>

> >> Hey ,

> >>

> >> I feel your pain, totally. My mother also suffers from undiagnosed BPD.

> >> It's not fun. There's so much drama in my family, and in my friendships

> >> because I grew up to be a magnet for users as a result of being my mother's

> >> daughter, one of my bridesmaids joked that they should make a reality TV

> >> show revolving totally around my wedding. And she was probably right.

> >>

> >> You sound like you've got a really good plan, though, staying out of the

> >> argument between her and G'ma and trying to nip any controversy and

> >> complaining in the bud. One of the problems I've noticed in many people,

> >> which you may wish to be aware of (not sure if it's needed, since I don't

> >> know you) is the tendency to take a strategy which " has or has not yielded

> >> results " and give up on it as soon as it isn't working. My husband does

this

> >> a lot trying to deal with my depression - I'll tell him a strategy, and

> >> he'll try it, then give up the first time it doesn't work. Sometimes

> >> sustaining a response consistently is necessary to get the desired result.

> >>

> >> Being a compassionate daughter is a good thing, but I know there's a line

> >> beyond which compassion becomes doormat-ness. I know it well because I'm

> >> usually on the doormat side lately. It sounds like you have a fairly good

> >> sense of where you don't want to get involved, which is awesome. Just keep

> >> remembering that your wedding day is about the new family you're creating

> >> together and the new life you're starting with your husband-to-be. Make

that

> >> the focal point and surround yourself with people who support you in that

> >> goal. That's the best advice I can offer.

> >>

> >> Psyclone

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Its a gorgeous smelling tropical tree with white/yellow flowers. All the old

houses in the city I live in have a giant frangipani tree in the front yard.

Either that or a passionfruit vine, I wouldnt mind either ;]

>

> What's a frangipani, love?

>