Revelations...it ain't just a book in the Bible

[Guest guest]

So probably everybody in here knows by now I'm taking care of my great aunt and

cousin. While that's been very challenging, one benefit of spending time with

relatives who are older than you are is that they often remember things you were

too young to remember.

Today I took my aunt to visit my cousin in her new home, and they started

talking about nada. (I think great aunt is in a hypomanic phase; she only does

this when she is getting bipolar.)

All the entire time I was growing up, all I heard from nada was how badly she

was treated by my father. He wouldn't let her learn to drive and have a car; he

wouldn't let her have a checkbook or her own money; he kept her stuck up in the

house all the time; he was always gone and was never home to spend time with

her. When I was little I hated my father, because all I heard was this from

nada, over and over and over and over.

So today I'm sitting there listening to my aunt and cousin, and it was: " Boy,

how lazy nada was. She didn't want to do ANYTHING. She made your dad do all

the grocery shopping after work, and he worked two jobs, and she would never

cook anything but tuna. He was thinking about divorcing her when he was

killed. " And I was like, " So...um. He actually *wanted* her to learn how to

drive, and do things like grocery shopping and handle a checkbook when he was

alive? " And my aunt was saying, " Sure. "

Good grief. Because, when my father died in a plane crash when I was 12, I

literally had a mother who didn't know how to drive and didn't even know how to

write a check or keep a check register, pay bills, or *anything.* (OMG--can you

say, LOW FUNCTIONING, LOW FUNCTIONINGLOWFUNCTIONING?????) My grandparents had

to swoop in and teach her how to do these things. My grandmother was almost 60

and didn't have a driver's license anymore herself, but she had to sign up for

lessons herself so my mother would be emboldened to actually learn to drive so

she could shop and cook for us kids. In later years my mother would make my

grandparents out to be the bad guys, saying, " They made me do this to the house

and they made me spend money on this, " and when I went to see my grandparents

they would be mystified. " We'd say, Nada, do you want us to do this? or she'd

ask us to do this, and now she's mad at us for it. "

Now I was hearing that my dad was sick of doing all this and actually *wanted*

her to do some of it.

When I was 15 and it was time for me to learn how to drive, my mother, who was

still very fearful of driving and of other drivers on the highway, didn't want

to teach me and didn't want me driving here or there, because I was going to get

hurt. But I knew I had better learn, or I'd end up weak and dependent just like

her. My stepfather was willing to teach me, but he wanted me to learn in this

huge pickup he had...I think it was a Ford 250 or something like that. I was

afraid to drive the thing because it was so big, but I decided if it was the

only way I was going to learn, I had better. Nada got all snippy and accused

him of favoritism: " You wouldn't offer to teach ME to drive the truck! " So he

offered to teach her to drive it, and she refused.

Several years after that, she maintained that he had always only offered to

teach me to drive it, but not her! So I kind of get a strong suspicion of who I

should really be believing here.

I never really thought of Nada as a low functioning borderline, but the picture

I see here is that she definitely was/is. And WHO was called " lazy " and

" allergic to work " her entire life??? Um...me, whom nada made clean half the

house every Friday night after I got home from school.

The more I hear, the more clearly I see how seriously mentally ill this person

is and always was.

The sad thing about it is, my poor dad was raised in a seriously dysfunctional

household himself. My cousin once told a story of being trapped under a table

in the kitchen while my grandparents had a fight and started throwing dishes at

each other. My uncle (my dad's younger brother) got her under there to protect

her and was trying to find a safe moment for them to dash out the door. My dad

was always being called home as a young adult to referee fights between his

parents.

So to grow up like this, and then to marry a wife like nada, and then have her

poison your two young kids against you, and then die a horrible death at the age

of 35 in a plane crash...gives me a whole different picture of my father. I

felt so sorry for him.

At least he loved the work he did, which gave him some measure of joy in such a

troubled life.

I'm really sorry, Dad. Wish I had been able to get to know you better.

--LL.

[Guest guest]

I'm so sorry about your Dad and all the time you lost with him. Plus the

memories that were tainted by your nada. My nada's 4th husband was the most like

a father to me. I always got along with him, he was nice to me and I never saw

him act mean. I married, moved away and then 15 years later my parents moved

into our area. It was a shock to me. My nada was so angry, even picked a fight

with him when he was in the hospital with his first heart attack. I didn't

understand what was going on.

Then her stories started. She would tell me on the phone about how mean he was,

he just wanted people to like him but he was horrible to her. It was hard for me

to put together the two different images I had of him. For years I heard horror

stories about him. I began to believe her even though I still never saw him act

mean to her. Then he got horribly sick, took 2 years to finally die and her

nastiness just got worse. It was during that time that I really learned how much

HE had suffered while living with her. Even on his death bed, she was

complaining about how he never did this or that. Plus she was flirting with

another man right there in the hospice room. It made me sick.

Yet I was still afraid to speak up. It wasn't until a year after his death I

learned about BPD and all the pieces came together. My childhood, her behavior

and accusations - all classic BPD. But my time to stand up for my " Dad " is gone.

It must have hurt him to think I believed her stories. Like your family, he

tried to teach her things and she just got angry. Said he talked too much and

didn't know what he was talking about. Now my husband and I are getting the same

complaints. I don't know how many times I've tried to show her how to change the

thermostat in the house. Even wrote out the directions. We were gone for a week

and she nearly froze to death (too bad I'm exaggerating) because she said she

didn't know how to turn on the heat portion instead of the AC. She waited till

we got back to do it for her. Damn! And I refuse to change batteries for her any

more. Honestly, even a child can do that.

Sorry for the rant. I just relate so closely to how you must feel. hugs to you.

>

> All the entire time I was growing up, all I heard from nada was how badly she

was treated by my father. He wouldn't let her learn to drive and have a car; he

wouldn't let her have a checkbook or her own money; he kept her stuck up in the

house all the time; he was always gone and was never home to spend time with

her. When I was little I hated my father, because all I heard was this from

nada, over and over and over and over.

>

> So today I'm sitting there listening to my aunt and cousin, and it was: " Boy,

how lazy nada was. She didn't want to do ANYTHING. She made your dad do all

the grocery shopping after work, and he worked two jobs, and she would never

cook anything but tuna. He was thinking about divorcing her when he was

killed. "

> So to grow up like this, and then to marry a wife like nada, and then have her

poison your two young kids against you, and then die a horrible death at the age

of 35 in a plane crash...gives me a whole different picture of my father. I

felt so sorry for him.

>

> At least he loved the work he did, which gave him some measure of joy in such

a troubled life.

>

> I'm really sorry, Dad. Wish I had been able to get to know you better.

>

> --LL.

>

[Guest guest]

,

What you say reminds me a lot of my nada. Her husbands were

terrible people. Nothing is ever nada's fault. Someone else

always made her do it or prevented her from doing it or

whatever. My nada has a litany of complaints about my father and

various other people in her life. One of the things she tells

other people is that my father refused to teach her how to drive

after they got married and how she had to get a neighbor to do

it. A couple of years ago, I mentioned this to one of my uncles

as an example of how she holds grudges for decades. He told me

that there was no truth to that story at all. My mother learned

to drive and got her license before she ever got married. He's

sure of that because she was the one her drove her two younger

brothers around when they needed to go places. For her, my

father's supposed failure to teach her to drive is part of an

explanation for why she had an affair 15 years later. Her other

stories that explain her actions or lack of action are probably

equally untrue. I think she mostly believes them though. Nadas

tend to be very good at changing reality in their minds until

they really don't think they're telling lies.

Trying to turn us against others is another common nada behavior

as well. These stories that blame our fathers do that as well as

attempting to remove responsibility from our nadas.

At 01:51 AM 10/21/2010 Roganda wrote:

>So probably everybody in here knows by now I'm taking care of

>my great aunt and cousin. While that's been very challenging,

>one benefit of spending time with relatives who are older than

>you are is that they often remember things you were too young

>to remember.

>

>Today I took my aunt to visit my cousin in her new home, and

>they started talking about nada. (I think great aunt is in a

>hypomanic phase; she only does this when she is getting

>bipolar.)

>

>All the entire time I was growing up, all I heard from nada was

>how badly she was treated by my father. He wouldn't let her

>learn to drive and have a car; he wouldn't let her have a

>checkbook or her own money; he kept her stuck up in the house

>all the time; he was always gone and was never home to spend

>time with her. When I was little I hated my father, because

>all I heard was this from nada, over and over and over and over.

>

>So today I'm sitting there listening to my aunt and cousin, and

>it was: " Boy, how lazy nada was. She didn't want to do

>ANYTHING. She made your dad do all the grocery shopping after

>work, and he worked two jobs, and she would never cook anything

>but tuna. He was thinking about divorcing her when he was

>killed. " And I was like, " So...um. He actually *wanted* her

>to learn how to drive, and do things like grocery shopping and

>handle a checkbook when he was alive? " And my aunt was saying,

> " Sure. "

>

>Good grief. Because, when my father died in a plane crash when

>I was 12, I literally had a mother who didn't know how to drive

>and didn't even know how to write a check or keep a check

>register, pay bills, or *anything.* (OMG--can you say, LOW

>FUNCTIONING, LOW FUNCTIONINGLOWFUNCTIONING?????) My

>grandparents had to swoop in and teach her how to do these

>things. My grandmother was almost 60 and didn't have a

>driver's license anymore herself, but she had to sign up for

>lessons herself so my mother would be emboldened to actually

>learn to drive so she could shop and cook for us kids. In

>later years my mother would make my grandparents out to be the

>bad guys, saying, " They made me do this to the house and they

>made me spend money on this, " and when I went to see my

>grandparents they would be mystified. " We'd say, Nada, do you

>want us to do this? or she'd ask us to do this, and now she's

>mad at us for it. "

>

>Now I was hearing that my dad was sick of doing all this and

>actually *wanted* her to do some of it.

>

>When I was 15 and it was time for me to learn how to drive, my

>mother, who was still very fearful of driving and of other

>drivers on the highway, didn't want to teach me and didn't want

>me driving here or there, because I was going to get hurt. But

>I knew I had better learn, or I'd end up weak and dependent

>just like her. My stepfather was willing to teach me, but he

>wanted me to learn in this huge pickup he had...I think it was

>a Ford 250 or something like that. I was afraid to drive the

>thing because it was so big, but I decided if it was the only

>way I was going to learn, I had better. Nada got all snippy

>and accused him of favoritism: " You wouldn't offer to teach ME

>to drive the truck! " So he offered to teach her to drive it,

>and she refused.

>

>Several years after that, she maintained that he had always

>only offered to teach me to drive it, but not her! So I kind

>of get a strong suspicion of who I should really be believing

>here.

>

>I never really thought of Nada as a low functioning borderline,

>but the picture I see here is that she definitely was/is. And

>WHO was called " lazy " and " allergic to work " her entire

>life??? Um...me, whom nada made clean half the house every

>Friday night after I got home from school.

>

>The more I hear, the more clearly I see how seriously mentally

>ill this person is and always was.

>

>The sad thing about it is, my poor dad was raised in a

>seriously dysfunctional household himself. My cousin once told

>a story of being trapped under a table in the kitchen while my

>grandparents had a fight and started throwing dishes at each

>other. My uncle (my dad's younger brother) got her under there

>to protect her and was trying to find a safe moment for them to

>dash out the door. My dad was always being called home as a

>young adult to referee fights between his parents.

>

>So to grow up like this, and then to marry a wife like nada,

>and then have her poison your two young kids against you, and

>then die a horrible death at the age of 35 in a plane

>crash...gives me a whole different picture of my father. I

>felt so sorry for him.

>

>At least he loved the work he did, which gave him some measure

>of joy in such a troubled life.

>

>I'm really sorry, Dad. Wish I had been able to get to know you

>better.

>

>--LL.

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

In the DSM-IV (and the ICD-10) the *general criteria* for personality disorder

(this is in addition to the specific criteria pertaining to the specific

personality disorder) describes that those with pd have problems with " cognition

(i.e., ways of perceiving and interpreting things, people, and events; forming

attitudes and images of self and others).

That's another way of saying that the personality-disordered perceive reality

differently than most other people would if observing an event or hearing a

comment at the same time.

My nada has what I think of as a " negativity filter. " Incoming information is

put through her filter and comes out negative in some way, unless it is

extremely over-the-top good for her. Hence the " walking on eggshells " . My nada

will perceive neutral comments or events as negative. If I wasn't actively

smiling and laughing, my neutral expression was perceived as " anger " by nada.

" What are you so mad about? " I'd get asked if I was just reading or watching TV

or just thinking about something.

Their brains are wired wrong, is the only conclusion I can come up with. And,

their screwed-up, distorted, negative perception and interpretation of reality

*seems normal to them.* When you tell them differently, explain to them that

what they're perceiving and interpreting and thinking, or remembering is not

accurate, *they don't believe you.*

Their distorted, negative reality is the only reality that counts.

-Annie

> All the entire time I was growing up, all I heard from nada was how badly she

was treated by my father. He wouldn't let her learn to drive and have a car; he

wouldn't let her have a checkbook or her own money; he kept her stuck up in the

house all the time; he was always gone and was never home to spend time with

her. When I was little I hated my father, because all I heard was this from

nada, over and over and over and over.

>

> So today I'm sitting there listening to my aunt and cousin, and it was: " Boy,

how lazy nada was. She didn't want to do ANYTHING. She made your dad do all

the grocery shopping after work, and he worked two jobs, and she would never

cook anything but tuna. He was thinking about divorcing her when he was

killed. " And I was like, " So...um. He actually *wanted* her to learn how to

drive, and do things like grocery shopping and handle a checkbook when he was

alive? " And my aunt was saying, " Sure. "

>

> --LL.

>

[Guest guest]

Good grief. It is amazing how sick people can be.

And what is it with BP's and driving, anyway?

--.

*this post has been trimmed*

[Guest guest]

Haha!! I remember my mum teaching me to drive - she put me out on an outback

highway full of semi-trailers - without even getting a learners permit. I think

back now and shudder at what could have gone wrong!!

As mum got odler her driving deteriorated more than you would expect for someone

her age. By the time she was 45 she was hitting the brakes at all intersections

" in case the lights suddenly go red " . Its like she forgot that lights go orange

first... Im amazed she hasnt been the subject of massive road rage incidents.

She now (close to 60) can no longer understand turning signals and complicated

lights. The one or two times I have driven around with her I end up driving out

of sheer stress.

I remember a few years ago she would tell everyone, in a frantic state, about

how a man " tried to commit suicide by jumping in front of her car " . When

questioned, she would say that when she swirved one way, he would dash in front,

she swirved the other and he jumped in front of her again. She would work

herself up into a spitting frenzy over this story. I think the truth isprobably

more along the lines of her not seeing a crosswalk and almost running someone

down.

>

> Good grief. It is amazing how sick people can be.

>

> And what is it with BP's and driving, anyway?

>

>

>

> --.

>

>

> *this post has been trimmed*

>

[Guest guest]

> Her other

> stories that explain her actions or lack of action are probably

> equally untrue. I think she mostly believes them though. Nadas

> tend to be very good at changing reality in their minds until

> they really don't think they're telling lies.

>

> Trying to turn us against others is another common nada behavior

> as well. These stories that blame our fathers do that as well as

> attempting to remove responsibility from our nadas.

>

THIS! So true... so true. They definitely believe their stories. It must

become absolutely confusing and exhausting to keep track of all of your versions

of the truth. I think that's why it's just easier in a sense for them to just

fully integrate their version of a story to be THE version. But I can't help but

wonder what it does to the psyche when a BPD person has split someone to bad --

and them remembers and re-tells a story when they were good. THey HAVE to see,

one some level, the incongruency... no??????