is it safe for her to watch my kids?

[Guest guest]

Me personally, from the behaviors you have described, I don't think its safe for

you to leave your children alone with your mother.

Think about whether you would leave your children with a neighbor or

acquaintance who is " just " emotionally abusive and volatile, who says mean

things to them and makes them cry, who " zones out " and forgets that she left the

children in the car, or in a store, and who does not respect you as a parent and

ignores your instructions to her RE the children.

You wouldn't accept those behaviors from a paid babysitting service worker, I'm

guessing.

My advice would be only allow your mother to see your children when you are

there. She isn't responsible or rational enough to care for them properly on

her own, as your list of her behaviors with them indicates.

Supervised visitation only, no babysitting.

-Annie

>

> My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive and

volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

>

> Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting they

were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

boundaries or requests very well.

>

> At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem very

happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time periods

once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

>

> CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

>

> (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

spiral out of control?)

>

[Guest guest]

my mom won't let my kids eat when i am not home...she is afraid they will choke.

and she lectures them on how bad artificial sweeteners are,,,and that i give

them unhealthy food...which i then have to undo when i get home.

so, i don't leave them with her anymore...they end up laughing about her...they

are so much more healthy than i have ever been!

amy

Re: Is it safe for her to watch my kids?

Me personally, from the behaviors you have described, I don't think its safe for

you to leave your children alone with your mother.

Think about whether you would leave your children with a neighbor or

acquaintance who is " just " emotionally abusive and volatile, who says mean

things to them and makes them cry, who " zones out " and forgets that she left the

children in the car, or in a store, and who does not respect you as a parent and

ignores your instructions to her RE the children.

You wouldn't accept those behaviors from a paid babysitting service worker, I'm

guessing.

My advice would be only allow your mother to see your children when you are

there. She isn't responsible or rational enough to care for them properly on

her own, as your list of her behaviors with them indicates.

Supervised visitation only, no babysitting.

-Annie

>

> My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive and

volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

>

> Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting they

were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

boundaries or requests very well.

>

> At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem very

happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time periods

once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

>

> CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

>

> (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

spiral out of control?)

>

[Guest guest]

As usual Annie hits it on the head. You listed several reasons why she should in

no way be allowed to babysit. Supervised visits only!

This is what I'm doing too. Listen to your gut. The fact that you put the

question in all caps - I think you already know the answer.

tre

> >

> > My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive and

volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

> >

> > Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting

they were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

boundaries or requests very well.

> >

> > At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem very

happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time periods

once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

> >

> > CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

> >

> > (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

spiral out of control?)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You remember all the shit she did , emotionally, verbally, by her BP

craziness, to make you a KO, covered with fleas, and in this group??

Is there anything in your experience to make you think she will not do

the same thing , and more , to your kids?

In my experience, BP s, untreated, spiral downward all thier lives.

And just as they will split their own children to golden child and

scapegoat, so they will do with your children.

Do you think violence is the worst they can do to you?

You wrote,

My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive

and volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make

them cry.

Seriously, if this person were anyone in the world except your mother,

would you for a moment consider leaving your kids with someone who " "

says mean things to make them cry? "

I m not trying to be mean to you here, but we end up minimizing what

they do to us.

IMHO, you never leave any defenseless child with an untreated BP.

EVER.

EVER.

EVER.

Remember your own experience, and ask yourself if you want them to

experience that.

Doug

[Guest guest]

My mother used to babysit one of my neices a lot. I remember visiting once, and

I told off my neice for some bad behaviour (she was about 6)- so she had a

tantrum and threw herself on the bed, catching her forehead on the bedframe and

giving herself a small bruise. Nothing major, but she was crying, as any child

would.

Nada pinned her down, and forcefed her painkillers. Now an upset child became a

hysterical screaming child. Nada was only concerned that people would assume she

had done a bad job babysitting if they saw a bruise, and in her mind painkillers

fix everything so the solution was to force them down the childs throat.

When I objected and pointed out that she was frightening the child, she went

into a rage about how she was the only person in the world who knew what to do

with children, and she didnt comprehend the difference between tantrum, crying

from pain, and hysterical fright. To nada, it is all " deliberately not doing

what nada wants " .

This is the same child who nada assumlted recently when she was sent to stay

with nada (pinned in a headlock on the floor).

I keep telling my sisters never to leave their children with her alone. What

nada SAYS is ten times worse than what she does.

When I have kids they will never see her if I can help it.

>

> My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive and

volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

>

> Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting they

were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

boundaries or requests very well.

>

> At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem very

happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time periods

once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

>

> CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

>

> (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

spiral out of control?)

>

[Guest guest]

Wouldn't leave my kid with nada for an instant she was too much of a kid herself

to be watching other kids.

Subject: Re: Is it safe for her to watch my kids?

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Tuesday, October 26, 2010, 8:58 PM

 

My mother used to babysit one of my neices a lot. I remember visiting

once, and I told off my neice for some bad behaviour (she was about 6)- so she

had a tantrum and threw herself on the bed, catching her forehead on the

bedframe and giving herself a small bruise. Nothing major, but she was crying,

as any child would.

Nada pinned her down, and forcefed her painkillers. Now an upset child became a

hysterical screaming child. Nada was only concerned that people would assume she

had done a bad job babysitting if they saw a bruise, and in her mind painkillers

fix everything so the solution was to force them down the childs throat.

When I objected and pointed out that she was frightening the child, she went

into a rage about how she was the only person in the world who knew what to do

with children, and she didnt comprehend the difference between tantrum, crying

from pain, and hysterical fright. To nada, it is all " deliberately not doing

what nada wants " .

This is the same child who nada assumlted recently when she was sent to stay

with nada (pinned in a headlock on the floor).

I keep telling my sisters never to leave their children with her alone. What

nada SAYS is ten times worse than what she does.

When I have kids they will never see her if I can help it.

>

> My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive and

volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

>

> Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting they

were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

boundaries or requests very well.

>

> At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem very

happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time periods

once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

>

> CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

>

> (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

spiral out of control?)

>

[Guest guest]

I would not.

I witnessed my mother say something completely horrendous to my nephew a few

months ago. Nine times out of ten she is fine. But she grew up with an abusive

alcoholic father and when she said this I was completely stunned. I don't think

children should be subjected to this crap. Because one comment can do serious

damage because they don't have ANY ability to understand, like we do, that

people are full of sh*t. Adult relatives are like gods to them, and since

god-like people do not lie or do bad things, there is a chance they might

internalize something messed up she says, and not realize until years later that

it was wrong. If she does it around you she is probably far worse when she is

alone with them.

>

> My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive and

volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

>

> Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting they

were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

boundaries or requests very well.

>

> At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem very

happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time periods

once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

>

> CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

>

> (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

spiral out of control?)

>

[Guest guest]

that is a good point. I actually thing that children " understand " hitting in a

way that they don't understand verbal abuse. Not that it makes violence okay in

any way, but since they are kids they understand within themselves that what

motivates a push or a shove is not anything 'good', but that it is an emotion.

Kids below a certain age believe everything adults tell them has basis in fact.

Just like when I cut my bangs extremely short once when I got ahold of a pair of

scissors when I was around five. My mother told me that if I had cut it any

closer to the hairline it all would have fallen out because that was where it

was " attached " to my head. I believed this into my early teens. I was mortified

when I mentioned it to a friend and found out it wasn't true. It makes me sound

stupid, but I had just assumed they would never lie to me. And then i was

dumbfounded as to why they would tell such a lie.

I also believed about santa claus and the easter bunny and all that. It's scary

what a child will believe and take at face value.

> >

> > My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive and

volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

> >

> > Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting

they were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

boundaries or requests very well.

> >

> > At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem very

happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time periods

once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

> >

> > CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

> >

> > (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

spiral out of control?)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

I wanted to add this - in the last bit of your post you asked if she'd get

better or worse. This is the real question in some ways. We all keep hoping

they'll get better. I know I do, I always look for evidence that she's

improving, that she'll somehow become a normal person someday.

And in fact, she is 'better' than when I was a kid, for example she doesn't hit

me, or anyone, anymore. She tries to learn the right behavior to get along. She

knows that she needs help understanding basic feelings. She'll ask me for

detailed instructions sometimes, saying that she just doesn't understand. She

has done a lot of therapy. But she's not normal. She will never be normal. I

have to learn to accept that. I think of it as a poison inside her that is

always trying to get out. She might stop it for a while, but it seeps out again,

and then anyone close to her is hurt.

Be strong. Supervise her at all times with the kids. Protect them.

>

> My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive and

volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

>

> Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting they

were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

boundaries or requests very well.

>

> At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem very

happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time periods

once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

>

> CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

>

> (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

spiral out of control?)

>

[Guest guest]

I keep thinking my mom will be normal someday. Then I correct myself and say NO.

I learned that she spanked my kids when my mom was watching the kids while I

went to the grocery store. I was so pissed.

One of my twins (girl) has a very loud voice. When she gets upset her crying

is extremely loud. Now she is only 2.5 years old. My mom wanted me to smack her

mouth to quiet her down.. I couldn't believe it. She asked me what I was going

to do. I said I was going to comfort her, but that she just has a loud voice.

I wish I had a good role model for a mom. It is so hard for me because I have

to learn to be a mom. I did get a what they call a parenting instructor. Gosh,

it was the best idea I ever had. She helped me out when I would be so stressed

out with all the kids screaming on what to do and how to get calm time out for

myself. I learned from my mom to react first and hit. She was very verbal and

physcially abuse to me, but she would never admit it. In fact, when she does

admit it, she says that I deserved it. I can't imagine a small child deserving

anything but love and guidance. My mom was tuned us out when we were children

and very ambivelent to us. My mom used to do her own thing and us kids were

suppose to get out of her way. The only time she wanted us around is to give her

attention or to brag to her friends about her, except all of our accomplishments

were because of her not us. For some reason, she doesn't she us as individuals.

After 70 years, my mom has mellowed or maybe it is all the stokes that has

caused her brain to mellowed out. But she still has that evil nonstop madness

when she gets angry.. So I would have to say.. I would always watch my mom

around my kids...

j

> >

> > My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive and

volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

> >

> > Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting

they were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

boundaries or requests very well.

> >

> > At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem very

happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time periods

once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

> >

> > CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

> >

> > (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

spiral out of control?)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I have often thought about this question when I have children of my own

someday.. I think a few hours should be harmless, especially if your kids

are of speaking age to tell you what's going on. I would limit the hours

spent baby sitting to no more than one or two days a week because children

are sponges and mimic emotional outbursts..

>

>

> I keep thinking my mom will be normal someday. Then I correct myself and

> say NO.

> I learned that she spanked my kids when my mom was watching the kids while

> I went to the grocery store. I was so pissed.

> One of my twins (girl) has a very loud voice. When she gets upset her

> crying is extremely loud. Now she is only 2.5 years old. My mom wanted me to

> smack her mouth to quiet her down.. I couldn't believe it. She asked me what

> I was going to do. I said I was going to comfort her, but that she just has

> a loud voice.

> I wish I had a good role model for a mom. It is so hard for me because I

> have to learn to be a mom. I did get a what they call a parenting

> instructor. Gosh, it was the best idea I ever had. She helped me out when I

> would be so stressed out with all the kids screaming on what to do and how

> to get calm time out for myself. I learned from my mom to react first and

> hit. She was very verbal and physcially abuse to me, but she would never

> admit it. In fact, when she does admit it, she says that I deserved it. I

> can't imagine a small child deserving anything but love and guidance. My mom

> was tuned us out when we were children and very ambivelent to us. My mom

> used to do her own thing and us kids were suppose to get out of her way. The

> only time she wanted us around is to give her attention or to brag to her

> friends about her, except all of our accomplishments were because of her not

> us. For some reason, she doesn't she us as individuals.

> After 70 years, my mom has mellowed or maybe it is all the stokes that has

> caused her brain to mellowed out. But she still has that evil nonstop

> madness when she gets angry.. So I would have to say.. I would always watch

> my mom around my kids...

> j

>

>

>

> > >

> > > My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive

> and volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them

> cry.

> > >

> > > Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting

> they were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect

> my boundaries or requests very well.

> > >

> > > At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem

> very happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time

> periods once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

> > >

> > > CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

> > >

> > > (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better

> or spiral out of control?)

> > >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

That is an excellent point. Small children have NO choice and NO frame of

reference; *anything* an adult tells a small child will be accepted as the

truth. Children are abjectly naive and dependent on the good will and good

intentions of any adult whose care they are in. So if your mother or your

grandfather or any adult tells a child that she is stupid, bad, lazy, bad, ugly,

bad, fat, bad, skinny, bad, willful, bad, slutty, or BAD, the child has

absolutely no option but to take that for the truth and believe it. (Even if she

doesn't understand what " slutty " means, the small child will hear the contempt

and rejection in the tone of voice and be hurt by it.)

Repeated exposure to such verbal abuse and negative evaluations *will have* a

profound negative impact on the child's sense of self-worth.

Not " might " have, will have.

-Annie

> >

> > My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive and

volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

> >

> > Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting

they were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

boundaries or requests very well.

> >

> > At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem very

happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time periods

once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

> >

> > CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

> >

> > (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

spiral out of control?)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My mother would never have laid a finger on my kids and my mom died in 2007. But

when my daughter was 3, I let her go stay with my parents for a few days (in

hindsight, bad idea). My 20 year old neice was there so I didn't worry too much.

But there was an incident that royally irritated me and made me see my mother's

waify/hermit bpd stuff and how bad it was (at that time I didn't know there was

a such thing as bpd as this was way back before she died in 2002). This is why

my daughter never stayed with her again.

Anyway, my daughter, 3 at the time, was playing in the backyard in a plastic 4

inch swimming pool. My neice was with her, but happened to walk to the side of

the house to turn the water hose off. My daughter followed her and a golden

retriever dog (the neighbor's dog that somehow got out) saw my daughter running

and ran after her. He was a playful...very gentle dog, but my daughter started

screaming because it scared her as this dog bigger than her was running towards

her. The dog jumped on her and knocked her down.

Okay. So let's look at this scenario. What would I have done? I would have

comforted her by picking her up and letting her know she was okay. I would have

shooed the dog away (he really was a precious dog) or calmed her down and showed

her how gentle the dog really was, and made NO BIG DEAL out of it again. I would

have explained how the silly dog was playing and that he was not trying to hurt

her, and didn't mean to scare her, that the dog thought she wanted to play! I

might have tried to get the dog to play with me so she could see he was gentle.

My mother? Oh, no. She runs out the back door (and she can't breathe because

she had emphysema) and scoops my daughter up, screaming and crying at my neice

that the dog is trying to ATTACK THEM (and my neice said the dog was wagging its

tail and playfully running around) at the top of her lungs, which terrified my

daughter. And that happened on the first day. I didn't even know about it

until the 3rd day. By the 3rd day, my mother had talked about it and told

stories of dogs attacking and killing people in front of her and then made sure

she inspected the yard before they went outside so the " mean dog " wasn't there.

What did this do? It made my daughter completely terrified of dogs until she

was about 6 years old (she's 10 now and fine with them). I'm talking, wouldn't

get out of the car, meltdown, freak out, crying hysterically over seeing a dog

terror. She NEVER did any of this before this happened. It took us having to

get a dog (which we slowly reintroduced them to her) and having her around

puppies and then other dogs before she would even get out of a car if one was in

sight. It was truly life altering for awhile because she wouldn't get out of

the car if there was a stray dog in a grocery store parking lot. It was hard

and I was so angry that I never, ever let my daughter stay alone with her again.

Re: Is it safe for her to watch my kids?

I keep thinking my mom will be normal someday. Then I correct myself and say NO.

I learned that she spanked my kids when my mom was watching the kids while I

went to the grocery store. I was so pissed.

One of my twins (girl) has a very loud voice. When she gets upset her crying is

extremely loud. Now she is only 2.5 years old. My mom wanted me to smack her

mouth to quiet her down.. I couldn't believe it. She asked me what I was going

to do. I said I was going to comfort her, but that she just has a loud voice.

I wish I had a good role model for a mom. It is so hard for me because I have to

learn to be a mom. I did get a what they call a parenting instructor. Gosh, it

was the best idea I ever had. She helped me out when I would be so stressed out

with all the kids screaming on what to do and how to get calm time out for

myself. I learned from my mom to react first and hit. She was very verbal and

physcially abuse to me, but she would never admit it. In fact, when she does

admit it, she says that I deserved it. I can't imagine a small child deserving

anything but love and guidance. My mom was tuned us out when we were children

and very ambivelent to us. My mom used to do her own thing and us kids were

suppose to get out of her way. The only time she wanted us around is to give her

attention or to brag to her friends about her, except all of our accomplishments

were because of her not us. For some reason, she doesn't she us as individuals.

After 70 years, my mom has mellowed or maybe it is all the stokes that has

caused her brain to mellowed out. But she still has that evil nonstop madness

when she gets angry.. So I would have to say.. I would always watch my mom

around my kids...

j

> >

> > My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive and

volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

> >

> > Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting they

were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

boundaries or requests very well.

> >

> > At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem very

happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time periods

once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

> >

> > CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

> >

> > (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

spiral out of control?)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

So, just a little abuse is OK with you?

As long as its only a couple of days a week for a few hours?

You do realize that a little 4-year-old can be easily intimidated and threatened

or shamed into remaining silent and not ever speak of any horrible things that

granny or grandpa said to her or did to her? Right?

-Annie

[Guest guest]

In my mother's case, she was almost over indulgent of my kids (sooo unlike me),

but I never really left them alone with her (aside from the time my neice was

there before my mother died)...my mother proved to me she wasn't capable of

being a healthy grandmother. She preferred being at a distance anyway. She

would throw money my direction and tell me to spend it on the kids but she

really didnt even ask or want to spend time with them. My mother's attitude was

that kids were unimportant and their feelings and opinions were worthless.

Re: Is it safe for her to watch my kids?

So, just a little abuse is OK with you?

As long as its only a couple of days a week for a few hours?

You do realize that a little 4-year-old can be easily intimidated and threatened

or shamed into remaining silent and not ever speak of any horrible things that

granny or grandpa said to her or did to her? Right?

-Annie

[Guest guest]

This might go along with the studies that say they get better with age, I don't

know. My mother got better with her meanness, but not with her waify/hermity

crap.

I never really gave up hope that my mother would suddenly become normal. I

really didn't.

Re: Is it safe for her to watch my kids?

Hi

I wanted to add this - in the last bit of your post you asked if she'd get

better or worse. This is the real question in some ways. We all keep hoping

they'll get better. I know I do, I always look for evidence that she's

improving, that she'll somehow become a normal person someday.

And in fact, she is 'better' than when I was a kid, for example she doesn't hit

me, or anyone, anymore. She tries to learn the right behavior to get along. She

knows that she needs help understanding basic feelings. She'll ask me for

detailed instructions sometimes, saying that she just doesn't understand. She

has done a lot of therapy. But she's not normal. She will never be normal. I

have to learn to accept that. I think of it as a poison inside her that is

always trying to get out. She might stop it for a while, but it seeps out again,

and then anyone close to her is hurt.

Be strong. Supervise her at all times with the kids. Protect them.

>

> My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive and

volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

>

> Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting they

were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

boundaries or requests very well.

>

> At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem very

happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time periods

once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

>

> CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

>

> (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

spiral out of control?)

>

[Guest guest]

You will change your mind when you have kids. BPDs can manipulate kids and the

kids don't know and blame themselves and won't tell their parents sometimes.

Especially if they think they're in the wrong and will be in trouble.

Re: Re: Is it safe for her to watch my kids?

I have often thought about this question when I have children of my own

omeday.. I think a few hours should be harmless, especially if your kids

re of speaking age to tell you what's going on. I would limit the hours

pent baby sitting to no more than one or two days a week because children

re sponges and mimic emotional outbursts..

>

I keep thinking my mom will be normal someday. Then I correct myself and

say NO.

I learned that she spanked my kids when my mom was watching the kids while

I went to the grocery store. I was so pissed.

One of my twins (girl) has a very loud voice. When she gets upset her

crying is extremely loud. Now she is only 2.5 years old. My mom wanted me to

smack her mouth to quiet her down.. I couldn't believe it. She asked me what

I was going to do. I said I was going to comfort her, but that she just has

a loud voice.

I wish I had a good role model for a mom. It is so hard for me because I

have to learn to be a mom. I did get a what they call a parenting

instructor. Gosh, it was the best idea I ever had. She helped me out when I

would be so stressed out with all the kids screaming on what to do and how

to get calm time out for myself. I learned from my mom to react first and

hit. She was very verbal and physcially abuse to me, but she would never

admit it. In fact, when she does admit it, she says that I deserved it. I

can't imagine a small child deserving anything but love and guidance. My mom

was tuned us out when we were children and very ambivelent to us. My mom

used to do her own thing and us kids were suppose to get out of her way. The

only time she wanted us around is to give her attention or to brag to her

friends about her, except all of our accomplishments were because of her not

us. For some reason, she doesn't she us as individuals.

After 70 years, my mom has mellowed or maybe it is all the stokes that has

caused her brain to mellowed out. But she still has that evil nonstop

madness when she gets angry.. So I would have to say.. I would always watch

my mom around my kids...

j

> >

> > My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive

and volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them

cry.

> >

> > Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting

they were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect

my boundaries or requests very well.

> >

> > At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem

very happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time

periods once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

> >

> > CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

> >

> > (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better

or spiral out of control?)

> >

>

Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

**This group is based on principles in Randi Kreger's new book The Essential

amily Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder: New Tips and Tools to Stop

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To unsub from this list, send a blank email to

WTOAdultChildren1-unsubscribe .

ecommended: " Toxic Parents, " " Surviving a Borderline Parent, " and

Understanding the Borderline Mother " (hard to find)

[Guest guest]

Dear Doug, crazy150345, proflaf1 and Joe,

Thank You.

My sister and I just joined this group, just found out what the heck has been

going on all these years. It helps because we have confirmed each other about

what went on and goes on. It is so confusing. It was even harder back when I

was the " bad guy " all the time - although I'm sure I'll be there again pretty

regularly now. I'm good with that. Finally.

Just ordered the Eggshells book and others; I want to get better, so much

better. My husband I have realized that we are neglecting our children in the

quest to be " good " and do what our extended families require. We have agreed

and are making a concerted effort to focus back on them and their needs(and

ours!).

I can see that my behavior mimics what I saw her do - from the rages to the

suicidal bullcrap as a reaction to stress. I even know I don't believe it or

really feel that way, but it comes on automatically like the proper reaction to

tiredness or something. I have changed, am changing and will continue to grow.

That may be the only difference between us really. I am so much like her. It

helped to read that many of us are confused about who's " crazy " so-to-speak.

I assume melodrama is part of the whole ball of wax, with the BPD or

hystrionic/narcissistic tendencies. But I honestly feel that your replies could

have saved my children's lives, certainly in the psychological sense. Doug,

thank you for the wake-up call - not mean, just the truth.

Last night I made the decision that my children will not be alone with this

person for any reason, ever. I literally washed my hands after the decision.

Pressure from family and friends made me feel that I had to cave all the time to

prove that I was the reasonable one. " See, look at all the crap I can take

without complaining? Now do you think I'm nice enough, not as crazy as her,

etc.?... "

I do feel that supervised visits as you recommended will work as long as

boundaries are observed. I will not sit and listen to the verbal abuse under

the guise of " getting it off her chest " to " improve " the " relationship " . I will

not invite her in the house the next time she comes in that mood or I will

politely tell her that I cannot/will not have those types of talks anymore. My

boundaries. Her response is her choice.

Someone in a recent post said something like " I will not feel sorry for

bullies. " I can act reasonable, friendly even, as long as her behavior is

appropriate. I will not lower myself to another dogfight or a bowing and

scraping session to appease her bruised ego.

Thank you for this group. This is the first time I have felt supported in

trying to be sane and healthy. In counseling or talking with family and

friends, the severity of the problem was always minimized, often because the

abuse was " only emotional " . I have been encouraged to give in, negotiate, and

endure this treatment for myself and my children. I am truly sorry for my part

in their mistreatment - not just sorry for her again. I will protect them and

myself.

(p.s. There has been screaming, cursing, neglect and errors in medical care,

sexually inappropriate behavior and transchanneling dead people from " the other

side " . I spent large parts of junior high and high school as the " guard " during

trances to make sure she didn't die. She also said they would take over her

body and she would die, but no one would know. I remember coming home from

school watching her cooking at the stove, wondering if my mother was actually

dead now or what.)

Exactly how severe did they want it to be before I would be allowed to assert

boundaries for safety?

>

> You remember all the shit she did , emotionally, verbally, by her BP

> craziness, to make you a KO, covered with fleas, and in this group??

>

> Is there anything in your experience to make you think she will not do

> the same thing , and more , to your kids?

>

> In my experience, BP s, untreated, spiral downward all thier lives.

>

> And just as they will split their own children to golden child and

> scapegoat, so they will do with your children.

>

> Do you think violence is the worst they can do to you?

>

> You wrote,

>

> My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive

> and volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make

> them cry.

>

> Seriously, if this person were anyone in the world except your mother,

> would you for a moment consider leaving your kids with someone who " "

> says mean things to make them cry? "

>

> I m not trying to be mean to you here, but we end up minimizing what

> they do to us.

>

> IMHO, you never leave any defenseless child with an untreated BP.

>

> EVER.

>

> EVER.

>

> EVER.

>

>

> Remember your own experience, and ask yourself if you want them to

> experience that.

>

> Doug

>

[Guest guest]

when my mom was babysitting, she told my 12 year old that I shouldn't buy canned

soups because there is too much salt in them. Then she told my daughter not to

tell me what they talked about. When I came home, my daughter was in tears

because she doesn't like to keep secrets from me -- and my mom put her in the

position to lie or to keep something secret.

I told my daughter to NEVER listen to ANYONE who says to keep a secret from

us...even if it's grandma.

Amy

Re: Is it safe for her to watch my kids?

So, just a little abuse is OK with you?

As long as its only a couple of days a week for a few hours?

You do realize that a little 4-year-old can be easily intimidated and threatened

or shamed into remaining silent and not ever speak of any horrible things that

granny or grandpa said to her or did to her? Right?

-Annie

[Guest guest]

That is so crazy. I'm glad you related that story. My older son has a

paralyzing fear of tornadoes because nada and step fada let him watch a scary

tornado show. I have spent hours holding him on the porch during storms to let

him know the thunder, etc. is no big deal.

Fear of storms was never an issue until after that incident and took about 3

years to undo. There are many, many more such incidents. Especially the night

terrors after visiting her. I don't even know what she did to him. He would

just wake up screaming and inconsolable after times with her. Whenever she was

visiting out-of-state family, no night terrors. For a while he only went over

there once a month or so - night terrors... Why would I continue letting him be

programmed and tortured this way? Duh.

I feel like I just woke up from a deep sleep.

> > >

> > > My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive and

volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

> > >

> > > Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting

they were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

boundaries or requests very well.

> > >

> > > At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem very

happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time periods

once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

> > >

> > > CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

> > >

> > > (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

spiral out of control?)

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You're not dumb at all - you were just a sweet and trusting child.

Great point about physical abuse. I can't count the number of times I wished

someone would just hit me and get it over with - slaps and belt beatings

notwithstanding. That was " normal " in our family. I just found out about the

hitting from my sister. I had blocked that out, apparently, along with most of

my childhood - lived in the fantasy world disassociated from the crazies.

I'll never forget the time my husband asked if I might be the okay one. He

said, " What if you grew up around lots of people with problems? Wouldn't you

seem " different " compared to them? Maybe you're not the one with the problem. "

Of course, I became the one with the problem as naturally follows. Will not buy

that anymore - other than to examine and improve for myself and my kids.

> > >

> > > My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive and

volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

> > >

> > > Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting

they were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

boundaries or requests very well.

> > >

> > > At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem very

happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time periods

once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

> > >

> > > CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

> > >

> > > (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

spiral out of control?)

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Great points -

both about the 1 time out of 10 still being abusive enough and the reminder that

things are likely worse when I'm not there.

> >

> > My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive and

volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

> >

> > Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting

they were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

boundaries or requests very well.

> >

> > At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem very

happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time periods

once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

> >

> > CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

> >

> > (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

spiral out of control?)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My mother could never understand why I wouldn't let her be alone with my kids.

I didn't worry she'd physically hurt them, but she puts the pure fear of God

into people with her stories and to a small child, it's terrifying. I remember

it well. A lot of my mother's issues were grounded in her fears and phobias.

She was terrified of storms, claimed we were going to war with Russia all the

time when I was a kid, thought we were under nuclear attack.... and when 9/11

happened? Oh, my God. Unbelievable. You would have thought she was trapped in

the towers and not safely sitting in her recliner in Florida. RI.DIC.U.LOUS.

Called me and demanded I " come home right now because there was a plane headed

RIGHT FOR THE CDC IN ATLANTA!! " Ugh. It makes me cringe just thinking about

all the things she did.

Re: Is it safe for her to watch my kids?

That is so crazy. I'm glad you related that story. My older son has a paralyzing

fear of tornadoes because nada and step fada let him watch a scary tornado show.

I have spent hours holding him on the porch during storms to let him know the

thunder, etc. is no big deal.

Fear of storms was never an issue until after that incident and took about 3

years to undo. There are many, many more such incidents. Especially the night

terrors after visiting her. I don't even know what she did to him. He would just

wake up screaming and inconsolable after times with her. Whenever she was

visiting out-of-state family, no night terrors. For a while he only went over

there once a month or so - night terrors... Why would I continue letting him be

programmed and tortured this way? Duh.

I feel like I just woke up from a deep sleep.

> > >

> > > My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive and

volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

> > >

> > > Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting

they were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

boundaries or requests very well.

> > >

> > > At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem very

happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time periods

once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

> > >

> > > CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

> > >

> > > (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

spiral out of control?)

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

does anyone remember Skylab? It was falling out of the sky about 1981...a space

station that was headed toward earth. My mom wouldn't let me go to driver's ed

that day...she told me it would hit me. She made me stay in a brick building for

safety...like the 5,000 pounds of speeding metal would be stopped by a brick

ceiling...she made me feel like a moving target.

amy

Re: Is it safe for her to watch my kids?

That is so crazy. I'm glad you related that story. My older son has a paralyzing

fear of tornadoes because nada and step fada let him watch a scary tornado show.

I have spent hours holding him on the porch during storms to let him know the

thunder, etc. is no big deal.

Fear of storms was never an issue until after that incident and took about 3

years to undo. There are many, many more such incidents. Especially the night

terrors after visiting her. I don't even know what she did to him. He would just

wake up screaming and inconsolable after times with her. Whenever she was

visiting out-of-state family, no night terrors. For a while he only went over

there once a month or so - night terrors... Why would I continue letting him be

programmed and tortured this way? Duh.

I feel like I just woke up from a deep sleep.

> > >

> > > My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive and

volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

> > >

> > > Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting

they were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

boundaries or requests very well.

> > >

> > > At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem very

happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time periods

once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

> > >

> > > CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

> > >

> > > (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

spiral out of control?)

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Are they really getting better with age?

People, in general, tend to become less volatile and aggressive and have less

energy as they age. This could take the sting out of the bee, so-to-speak.

But I have noticed she has developed the ability to hide things and manipulate

much more skillfully. The arrows are small and hard to find, but dipped in

poison.

In many ways, the " poor old grandma " act is even more effective and dangerous.

My son and I had a talk a couple of days ago about grandma. He wanted to know

why I am " mean " to her and mad at her so much. I try not to discuss this stuff

with him, but realized it might be better to explain a little now that he's

older and directly asking. I let him know that grandma had a difficult

childhood and gets upset a lot now. I told him that she feels angry at me and

tells people that I am mean to her, but that I try to forgive her and treat her

nicely. I said we love grandma and she is very sweet in many ways. And when

she says mean things to me, I need to forgive her in my heart, but not let her

do it anymore - just like with kids at school.

He seemed to get this explanation for the most part. He is struggling now

because he is going from " golden child " to the bad boy role with her as he gets

older and younger brother takes his place. He is beginning to see through the

toy-buying scheme and doesn't like to be around her as much.

> >

> > My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive and

volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

> >

> > Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting they

were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

boundaries or requests very well.

> >

> > At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem very

happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time periods

once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

> >

> > CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

> >

> > (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

spiral out of control?)

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>