is it safe for her to watch my kids?

[Guest guest]

Wow! The similarities I see on here are striking. At first, I felt I didn't

even need to post because you guys had it all covered. ha ha

My mom refers to the " coming times " when the earth will tilt on its axis,

throwing off the magnetic poles and confusing computers and satellites. We will

be thrown into a survival-age where we will have to garden and get by without

any modern conveniences. Interestingly, there is never any hunting involved

since she doesn't like physical activity or being outside around bugs. (She

prefers container gardening until she gets angry at the " bad " plant and throws

it in the garbage to die. She gets in killing sprees occasionally and goes

after the houseplants. She used to take our pets to the kill shelter when we

were on trips to see dad and personally drowned a puppy in the toilet once.

What the hell have I been thinking letting her alone with my babies???!!!)

I never thought this was crazy and have been half watching for the earth to

shift. Heaven help me. I feel like such an idiot. I know, logically, that her

weird stuff isn't right, but having it programmed so early and consistently,

along with the spiritual cult emphasis makes it darn hard to eradicate. Nasty

case of fleas in the upholstery and carpet, hu?

> > > >

> > > > My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive

and volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

> > > >

> > > > Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting

they were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

boundaries or requests very well.

> > > >

> > > > At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem

very happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time

periods once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

> > > >

> > > > CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

> > > >

> > > > (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

spiral out of control?)

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Its been mentioned in here before how nadas behave with pets. It wasnt til quite

a while after reading that topic that I realised that my nada personally shot

(or got dad to shoot) every pet we ever had - other than the cats that she let

go feral by not feeding them.

We had many dogs, and she shot them all. Not just working dogs, but I know she

also shot a jack russel that her sister gave to us " so it could have a happier

life " and now I suspect she also shot a King Spaniel that someone gave

us with the same idea in mind.

There was never any sadness, never any remorse, it was simply " something to be

done " . I used to think this was normal with farm dogs, until I recently got my

first dog as a pet. Isnt it funny how your ideas of " normal " can get so warped?

Having such a wonderful animal dependant on me, and giving such wonderful

companionship, I finally realise just how callous and horrid my mother was to

her/our pets. I bet she would also drown puppies if " it had to be done " .

So scary...

>

> Wow! The similarities I see on here are striking. At first, I felt I didn't

even need to post because you guys had it all covered. ha ha

>

> My mom refers to the " coming times " when the earth will tilt on its axis,

throwing off the magnetic poles and confusing computers and satellites. We will

be thrown into a survival-age where we will have to garden and get by without

any modern conveniences. Interestingly, there is never any hunting involved

since she doesn't like physical activity or being outside around bugs. (She

prefers container gardening until she gets angry at the " bad " plant and throws

it in the garbage to die. She gets in killing sprees occasionally and goes

after the houseplants. She used to take our pets to the kill shelter when we

were on trips to see dad and personally drowned a puppy in the toilet once.

What the hell have I been thinking letting her alone with my babies???!!!)

>

> I never thought this was crazy and have been half watching for the earth to

shift. Heaven help me. I feel like such an idiot. I know, logically, that her

weird stuff isn't right, but having it programmed so early and consistently,

along with the spiritual cult emphasis makes it darn hard to eradicate. Nasty

case of fleas in the upholstery and carpet, hu?

>

[Guest guest]

Yes; small, helpless little things don't seem to fare well in the care of some

nadas. I think pet care behaviors and patterns of behavior are a good

indicator, myself.

-Annie

> >

> > Wow! The similarities I see on here are striking. At first, I felt I

didn't even need to post because you guys had it all covered. ha ha

> >

> > My mom refers to the " coming times " when the earth will tilt on its axis,

throwing off the magnetic poles and confusing computers and satellites. We will

be thrown into a survival-age where we will have to garden and get by without

any modern conveniences. Interestingly, there is never any hunting involved

since she doesn't like physical activity or being outside around bugs. (She

prefers container gardening until she gets angry at the " bad " plant and throws

it in the garbage to die. She gets in killing sprees occasionally and goes

after the houseplants. She used to take our pets to the kill shelter when we

were on trips to see dad and personally drowned a puppy in the toilet once.

What the hell have I been thinking letting her alone with my babies???!!!)

> >

> > I never thought this was crazy and have been half watching for the earth to

shift. Heaven help me. I feel like such an idiot. I know, logically, that her

weird stuff isn't right, but having it programmed so early and consistently,

along with the spiritual cult emphasis makes it darn hard to eradicate. Nasty

case of fleas in the upholstery and carpet, hu?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well, to that question... I kind of say " no " . Not unless one wants to play

Russian-roulette.

Now setting the boundary with nada, without having World War II.. that is

another issue, altogether. But as we get stronger their tactics seem moot.

I wanted to share much fear my mom carries, and how that can impact a child.

I've carried fears of destitution that come from my nada. The BPD does not plant

seed of optimism and hope, and for that reason alone, I think one has to be

within earshot of them when they are with our kids. We need to know what was

" planted " in our kids' heads, so it can be counteracted. Oh my gosh, that makes

me sound paranoid. And my nada used that word, " planted " too.

On that note, let me share a funny story, that's similar to the Sky Lab one.

When the media was doing that funny coverage of how to survive a terrorist

attack involving poison gasses... and suggested making a safe room with mylar

and duct tape... we were heading out of town on a camping vacation. The phone

rang and it was nada, and she wanted me to be aware of what to do to stay safe.

She started to tell me about the mylar and duct tape! I probably laughed, and

told her that we were on our way to go camping.

" Oh no, Vicki! " she protested, and tried to tell me to stay home. I told her she

needed to stop taking the media so seriously and hung up the phone as fast as I

could. Imagine thinking that was to be taken seriously....I was just so glad I

could hang up and go back to real life.

[Guest guest]

My kids are now in their 20s and I wasn't aware of BPD until 3 years ago. Of

course I was always aware that nada was nuts, I just didn't understand the full

ramifications of her condition.

When my kids were small, I learned quickly that it was never a good idea to ASK

nada to babysit. For whenever it was my idea, she always let me know how much

of an inconvenience my kids were for her. They disobeyed, they coughed all

night, etc....any reason to complain made her happy.

But I found that if it was HER IDEA to take one of them on an outing, or have

them sleepover, things seemed to go fine, at least as far as I know.

My nada has always been that way. If something is her choice, such as a

restaurant, she'll never complain. But if its someone else's idea, especially

someone who is split black like myself, she pouts and complains endlessly about

trivial matters.

Knowing what I know now, I NEVER would have allowed my children to know nada at

all. Nada has competed against me my whole life and currently she's trying to

turn my adult sons against me.

Recently I stumbled upon a website called NarcissistsSuck.com

This is what I found:

" Narcissist grandparents are a real and present danger to the homes and

happiness of their grown children. They very often try to alienate the

affections of their grandchildren from their parents. It is evil. The

competitiveness of narcissist grandparents should never be underestimated. "

HEED the warning or you'll later regret it!!!

K

>

> My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive and

volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

>

> Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting they

were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

boundaries or requests very well.

>

> At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem very

happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time periods

once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

>

> CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

>

> (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

spiral out of control?)

>

[Guest guest]

hehe, my mother used to do the same thing - she once rang everyone in the family

to try to get everyone to locate me, as she heard on the news that there had

been a minor earthquake in Kalgoorlie. It was mentioned on the news that there

were NO INJURIES, but she got in a panic as she vaguely remembered that I was

working underground in a mine and was convinced that I was trapped underground

and was going to die. The fact that I worked in a mine 3000km away from

Kalgoorlie didnt matter.

Or there was the time I went to Brazil for work, and I got email from family

members saying she had seen the news where a political prisoner was released

from her kidnappers in the columbian jungle - and therefore she was in a big

panic that Id be kidnapped. Different country didnt matter.

I keep having to tell the siblings that pass these comments on with the " youd

better call her, she is really worried!!! " that if she is going to be that

silly, I dont want to hear about it.

>

> does anyone remember Skylab? It was falling out of the sky about 1981...a

space station that was headed toward earth. My mom wouldn't let me go to

driver's ed that day...she told me it would hit me. She made me stay in a brick

building for safety...like the 5,000 pounds of speeding metal would be stopped

by a brick ceiling...she made me feel like a moving target.

> amy

[Guest guest]

My mother never wanted to go anywhere. She could not be away from CNN more than

20 minutes or she went through some sort of withdrawals. It was very bizarre.

My husband and I convinced her and my dad to go out to dinner once. We wanted

to go to a movie afterward and the entire time we were in line at the movies,

she was whipsering to me, " why don't we just go home and rent a movie? " She

never, ever traveled, never stayed in a hotel, acted like a weirdo if she came

to my house (which was very rare) and wouldn't eat off my plates or take a

shower at my house. Even if she came to my house, she wouldn't go anywhere and

made me leave my TV on CNN or the weather channel.

Re: Is it safe for her to watch my kids?

My kids are now in their 20s and I wasn't aware of BPD until 3 years ago. Of

course I was always aware that nada was nuts, I just didn't understand the full

ramifications of her condition.

When my kids were small, I learned quickly that it was never a good idea to ASK

nada to babysit. For whenever it was my idea, she always let me know how much of

an inconvenience my kids were for her. They disobeyed, they coughed all night,

etc....any reason to complain made her happy.

But I found that if it was HER IDEA to take one of them on an outing, or have

them sleepover, things seemed to go fine, at least as far as I know.

My nada has always been that way. If something is her choice, such as a

restaurant, she'll never complain. But if its someone else's idea, especially

someone who is split black like myself, she pouts and complains endlessly about

trivial matters.

Knowing what I know now, I NEVER would have allowed my children to know nada at

all. Nada has competed against me my whole life and currently she's trying to

turn my adult sons against me.

Recently I stumbled upon a website called NarcissistsSuck.com

This is what I found:

" Narcissist grandparents are a real and present danger to the homes and

happiness of their grown children. They very often try to alienate the

affections of their grandchildren from their parents. It is evil. The

competitiveness of narcissist grandparents should never be underestimated. "

HEED the warning or you'll later regret it!!!

K

>

> My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive and

volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

>

> Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting they

were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

boundaries or requests very well.

>

> At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem very

happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time periods

once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

>

> CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

>

> (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

spiral out of control?)

>

[Guest guest]

Man, that's crazy that she shot your animals. Both of my parents hated and were

mean to any animal we ever had.

Re: Is it safe for her to watch my kids?

Yes; small, helpless little things don't seem to fare well in the care of some

nadas. I think pet care behaviors and patterns of behavior are a good indicator,

myself.

-Annie

> >

> > Wow! The similarities I see on here are striking. At first, I felt I didn't

even need to post because you guys had it all covered. ha ha

> >

> > My mom refers to the " coming times " when the earth will tilt on its axis,

throwing off the magnetic poles and confusing computers and satellites. We will

be thrown into a survival-age where we will have to garden and get by without

any modern conveniences. Interestingly, there is never any hunting involved

since she doesn't like physical activity or being outside around bugs. (She

prefers container gardening until she gets angry at the " bad " plant and throws

it in the garbage to die. She gets in killing sprees occasionally and goes after

the houseplants. She used to take our pets to the kill shelter when we were on

trips to see dad and personally drowned a puppy in the toilet once. What the

hell have I been thinking letting her alone with my babies???!!!)

> >

> > I never thought this was crazy and have been half watching for the earth to

shift. Heaven help me. I feel like such an idiot. I know, logically, that her

weird stuff isn't right, but having it programmed so early and consistently,

along with the spiritual cult emphasis makes it darn hard to eradicate. Nasty

case of fleas in the upholstery and carpet, hu?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes. My nada also did the paranoid thing. The last time (before NC) my

husband and I returned home from the store to meet nada at our house. She

was standing in the driveway crying hysterically. Why? She saw/heard

sirens/lights on the way to our house and " knew " that we had all died in a

car accident. She comes from a completely different direction that we would

have been coming from (and knew this) and also knows we don't use the major

highways(where the accident was).

As for leaving kids with nadas. Good for you deciding to set boundaries and

supervise. I went through hell with nada after having kids. It is the

reason we are NC now. I knew from things she did with my niece that I

didn't trust her. She would agree to my brother's rules and then when he

left do as she wanted. She puts my niece in dangerous situations(broken

care seat, left alone with large, mean, dogs). I insisted on supervised

visits only. Due to actions on her part I later had to set boundaries on

her not being allowed to drive with my daughter in the car and stop any

visits to her house. Even with me in the car she drove unsafe and she tried

to use that fact that it was her house to violate boundaries. It all built

up to a " I need to get something off my chest " ultimatium letter. That was

pretty much the last straw for me.

--

" By definition, madness ends in one of two ways: clarity...or death. "

-- *Frantic

Purification*

[Guest guest]

victoria, my mom did the same with the mylar and duct tape. She also lugged

gallons and gallons of bottled water to my house. She also looked into gas masks

for me...not my husband or my 5 kids...just for me. what does that say??

amy

is it safe for her to watch my kids?

Well, to that question... I kind of say " no " . Not unless one wants to play

Russian-roulette.

Now setting the boundary with nada, without having World War II.. that is

another issue, altogether. But as we get stronger their tactics seem moot.

I wanted to share much fear my mom carries, and how that can impact a child.

I've carried fears of destitution that come from my nada. The BPD does not plant

seed of optimism and hope, and for that reason alone, I think one has to be

within earshot of them when they are with our kids. We need to know what was

" planted " in our kids' heads, so it can be counteracted. Oh my gosh, that makes

me sound paranoid. And my nada used that word, " planted " too.

On that note, let me share a funny story, that's similar to the Sky Lab one.

When the media was doing that funny coverage of how to survive a terrorist

attack involving poison gasses... and suggested making a safe room with mylar

and duct tape... we were heading out of town on a camping vacation. The phone

rang and it was nada, and she wanted me to be aware of what to do to stay safe.

She started to tell me about the mylar and duct tape! I probably laughed, and

told her that we were on our way to go camping.

" Oh no, Vicki! " she protested, and tried to tell me to stay home. I told her she

needed to stop taking the media so seriously and hung up the phone as fast as I

could. Imagine thinking that was to be taken seriously....I was just so glad I

could hang up and go back to real life.

[Guest guest]

Mine was obsessed with nuclear war. She made me watch those movies about what

happens to people after a nuculear attack. Threads. The Day After. Testament.

Etc.

She was always trying to teach me what to do/what not to do if there was an

attack etc. Turned me into a real hoarder for a while. I've had to work on it.

LOL!

>

> Well, to that question... I kind of say " no " . Not unless one wants to play

> Russian-roulette.

>

> Now setting the boundary with nada, without having World War II.. that is

> another issue, altogether. But as we get stronger their tactics seem moot.

>

> I wanted to share much fear my mom carries, and how that can impact a child.

> I've carried fears of destitution that come from my nada. The BPD does not

plant

> seed of optimism and hope, and for that reason alone, I think one has to be

> within earshot of them when they are with our kids. We need to know what was

> " planted " in our kids' heads, so it can be counteracted. Oh my gosh, that

makes

> me sound paranoid. And my nada used that word, " planted " too.

>

> On that note, let me share a funny story, that's similar to the Sky Lab one.

>

> When the media was doing that funny coverage of how to survive a terrorist

> attack involving poison gasses... and suggested making a safe room with mylar

> and duct tape... we were heading out of town on a camping vacation. The phone

> rang and it was nada, and she wanted me to be aware of what to do to stay

safe.

> She started to tell me about the mylar and duct tape! I probably laughed, and

> told her that we were on our way to go camping.

>

> " Oh no, Vicki! " she protested, and tried to tell me to stay home. I told her

she

> needed to stop taking the media so seriously and hung up the phone as fast as

I

> could. Imagine thinking that was to be taken seriously....I was just so glad I

> could hang up and go back to real life.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Mine was afraid of thunderstorms flinching at every bolt of lightening. If

there was a tornado warning anywhere in the county, we had to had to the

basement. She never leaves the house if its raining, only goes to the store on

sunny days.

And vacations were a nightmare. The few family vacations we took were always

delayed. Nada would work herself into a frenzy and be sick the day we were

scheduled to leave. She is afraid to leave her home and possessions behind.

Fada eventually purchased a motor home and I just now realized why. If nada was

sick on departure day, she could use the bathroom in the motorhome or lay on the

bed while he drove. Haha, I guess fada found a method to the madness that he

could live with.

K

> > > >

> > > > My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive

and volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

> > > >

> > > > Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting

they were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

boundaries or requests very well.

> > > >

> > > > At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem

very happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time

periods once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

> > > >

> > > > CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

> > > >

> > > > (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

spiral out of control?)

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I know this topic has been done to death, but I must add my 2 cents:

If you have to ASK, you already know the answer!

The absolute best thing I did for my children was go no contact with NADA while

they were 3-9 years old. (We did not know she was BPD until recently--just knew

she was manipulative, game playing bitch). And I have always been open and

honest with my kids when they were troubled by something she has done or said.

Luckily, they were close enough that when she attempted to play them against

each other they bonded tighter AGAINST her. So her little manipulations were not

successful.

However, she hurt them and angered them many a time. We would then talk about

it. I intervened when necessary, often making myself a target to spare them.

They have been told about their grandmother (age appropriate), and discussed

lots of family history about my and my husband's experiences with her.

Now that they are adults, they see their grandma for exactly what it she is, a

sick woman who would love to enmesh them in her pile of crap. They give her just

a bit of time when they come home and then are done with her.

Do your kids a favor, and DON'T leave them at her mercy! At least not regularly,

not often and not without a 'debrief' session with you after her time with them.

>

> My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive and

volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

>

> Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting they

were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

boundaries or requests very well.

>

> At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem very

happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time periods

once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

>

> CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

>

> (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

spiral out of control?)

>

[Guest guest]

Wow. It would seem that several of our nadas have a lot of anxiety and paranoia

mixed in with their emotional dysregulation. I've read that its rare for an

individual to just be a " pure " bpd, that there are usually other personality

disorders or other mental illnesses mixed in with it.

-Annie

>

> Mine was obsessed with nuclear war. She made me watch those movies about what

happens to people after a nuculear attack. Threads. The Day After. Testament.

Etc.

>

> She was always trying to teach me what to do/what not to do if there was an

attack etc. Turned me into a real hoarder for a while. I've had to work on it.

LOL!

[Guest guest]

I wouldn't. My Nada is so like a child that is just like leaving 3 kids alone.

My daughter has autism and my Nada was visiting. I thought she could handle the

home stuff while I worked. I come home from work and Nada is in the kitchen

fighting with my daughter about the dishwasher or something stupid. I have to

come home and intervene in it. I can't explain it to her. She just gets all

defensive and says " Well I just can't say anything right " . My daughter does not

want to talk to her on the phone or even see her in person. She visited last

year for the Nutcracker performance that my daughter is in. She has motor

control issues so for her to do ballet is a very big deal plus it is the

highlight of her year. She doesnt have friends per se because of her lack of

social cues etc. So anyway, Nada comes up and of course is sick and in pain. I 

have to take her to the emergency room AGAIN. Nothing wrong. She just got

painkillers.But the point is, she wanted

me to give her all the attention while I am in the middle of driving to

rehearsals, doing hair and makeup because my daughter can't do those things on

her own.

I didn't really realize the abnormal behavior until I had my first child in my

late 20's. I used to think that my Nada was the best mother because she DID all

these things. like cooking and sewing and laundry...all things to soothe her

anxiety. My Nada wouldn't even babysit when my kids were little. Like one time I

wanted to go shopping by myself without having to carry any infant and she

wouldn't hear of it. She had to go too.

My son is older and can tell me what goes on now. But when they are younger,

they might not want to say and then you won't know. Just my experience with it.

 

 

Subject: Re: Is it safe for her to watch my kids?

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Thursday, October 28, 2010, 10:46 AM

 

I know this topic has been done to death, but I must add my 2 cents:

If you have to ASK, you already know the answer!

The absolute best thing I did for my children was go no contact with NADA while

they were 3-9 years old. (We did not know she was BPD until recently--just knew

she was manipulative, game playing bitch). And I have always been open and

honest with my kids when they were troubled by something she has done or said.

Luckily, they were close enough that when she attempted to play them against

each other they bonded tighter AGAINST her. So her little manipulations were not

successful.

However, she hurt them and angered them many a time. We would then talk about

it. I intervened when necessary, often making myself a target to spare them.

They have been told about their grandmother (age appropriate), and discussed

lots of family history about my and my husband's experiences with her.

Now that they are adults, they see their grandma for exactly what it she is, a

sick woman who would love to enmesh them in her pile of crap. They give her just

a bit of time when they come home and then are done with her.

Do your kids a favor, and DON'T leave them at her mercy! At least not regularly,

not often and not without a 'debrief' session with you after her time with them.

>

> My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive and

volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

>

> Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting they

were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

boundaries or requests very well.

>

> At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem very

happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time periods

once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

>

> CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

>

> (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

spiral out of control?)

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your post. I really needed this reminder. Nada is back in town

today; I feel sick in my stomach just seeing that she called on my cell phone.

Feeling like I'm going to " get in trouble " .

I start minimizing the issues and thinking it's not that bad every day. I

conveniently forget how she tries to turn the kids against me and tells them how

mean I treat her, etc.

Thank you for the future view.

> >

> > My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive and

volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

> >

> > Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting

they were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

boundaries or requests very well.

> >

> > At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem very

happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time periods

once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

> >

> > CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

> >

> > (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

spiral out of control?)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Another problem that has resulted with my sons having a lifelong relationship

with nada is that my oldest son ended up marrying someone just like her. Now I

have 2 bpds in the family which is above and beyond what I am capable of coping

with and has caused me to be LC with nada and NC with dil.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

K

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Thu, October 28, 2010 11:28:21 AM

Subject: Re: Is it safe for her to watch my kids?

Thank you for your post. I really needed this reminder. Nada is back in town

today; I feel sick in my stomach just seeing that she called on my cell phone.

Feeling like I'm going to " get in trouble " .

I start minimizing the issues and thinking it's not that bad every day. I

conveniently forget how she tries to turn the kids against me and tells them how

mean I treat her, etc.

Thank you for the future view.

> >

> > My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive and

>volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

> >

> > Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting

they

>were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

>boundaries or requests very well.

> >

> > At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem very

>happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time

periods

>once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

> >

> > CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

> >

> > (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

>spiral out of control?)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Good point. And I hate to say it, but my BPD tendencies or mimicking or

whatever could just exacerbate my sons' feeling comfortable with these

dysfunctional behaviors.

I need to try to be as healthy as possible so they feel good in normal, healthy

situations. :-)

> > >

> > > My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive and

> >volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

> > >

> > > Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting

they

> >were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

> >boundaries or requests very well.

> > >

> > > At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem very

> >happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time

periods

> >once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

> > >

> > > CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

> > >

> > > (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

> >spiral out of control?)

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Your comment is worth more than 2 cents. :-)

I hadn't considered the debriefing. I think I will open things up for

conversations after supervised visits now (the only kind we will be having).

I might just reiterate some basic values like " It's fun to go to Chuck E. Cheese

and play games. Remember that the best part is spending time together. " Or:

" I know you enjoy the toys Grandma gets you. Money and things are a nice part

of life, but sharing and caring matter more in the long run, etc. "

I am also going to take them to church myself so there is no excuse for more

programming to occur with her in the car.

Hopefully these boundaries will go over without a hitch. Yeah, right. Who am I

kidding. Prepare for WWIII. I've already warned sis of the pending phone calls

about the black sheep(me). I'm always the angel or the devil with nada.

> >

> > My mother has not been violent with her BPD, just emotionally abusive and

volatile. Children can be targets; she says mean things that make them cry.

> >

> > Are my kids safe with her? She zones out and has admitted to forgetting

they were with her in the car at a store. She, of course, does not respect my

boundaries or requests very well.

> >

> > At the same time, she is good with children in general and they seem very

happy with her. I have her watch them at my home now and for short time periods

once a week only. It is her " joy in life " to see them.

> >

> > CAN I CONTINUE TO LET HER BABYSIT?

> >

> > (She is so much worse now since my step-dad died. Will she get better or

spiral out of control?)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Amy, wow... that your nada wanted a gas mask for you and no one else? Not your

husband or your five kids? We could just say that she is really really out of

touch with what she is communicating.

I wanted to cry about that, actually, when I read it. I could have laughed if

she wanted to save you and your WHOLE family. But to me, it is a bit like my mom

wanted to " get me by myself " on the phone when no one else is around. It is as

if she wants me all to herself, and that has always felt a bit " off " , even

unsafe to me.

In my nada's world, the fact that I am married and have a child really has not

sunk in. I am still sixteen going on twenty in her mind and of course, how could

I be married and have an eleven year old if I am only sixteen?

It feels weird to have said the above, and for it to " fit " . Maybe I am

off-kilter.

But I think what makes me different from my nada is that I am off, I can admit

it without being too bent out of shape!

[Guest guest]

DITTO DITTO DITTO!!!!

I always have the feeling that mum doesnt see me as any older than perhaps a

teenager at uni. It has taken 5 years for her to finally have it sink in that I

work in a particular profession. I dont think she even remembers/realises that I

went to university. The idea that I own a house didnt sink in til she visited,

even then she constantly made comments the whole time about how I was going to

stuff up the renos (because in her head Im a kid who doesnt know how to do

anything). I was overseas for over a year for work, and it only sunk in when she

couldnt get me on the phone.

My mum is SUPER paranoid. She used to call me after watching Today Tonight about

toxins in cleaning products - and get hysterical if I told her I didnt watch the

show or didnt want to listen to her tell me all about it. She told us repeatedly

as kids that the asians were all stockpiling knives to take over the country

(because they cook - therefore they have knives). She thinks we are all going to

die from volcanoes/earthquakes/nuclear war/terrorism/etc and of course the

mundane will kill us as well - when I was a teenager she went on constantly how

I was going to die from infection if I used tampons, DVT from flying, from

playing sprots because I had a heart murmer - you name it, she tried to convince

you it would happen.

>

> Amy, wow... that your nada wanted a gas mask for you and no one else? Not your

husband or your five kids? We could just say that she is really really out of

touch with what she is communicating.

>

> I wanted to cry about that, actually, when I read it. I could have laughed if

she wanted to save you and your WHOLE family. But to me, it is a bit like my mom

wanted to " get me by myself " on the phone when no one else is around. It is as

if she wants me all to herself, and that has always felt a bit " off " , even

unsafe to me.

>

> In my nada's world, the fact that I am married and have a child really has not

sunk in. I am still sixteen going on twenty in her mind and of course, how could

I be married and have an eleven year old if I am only sixteen?

>

> It feels weird to have said the above, and for it to " fit " . Maybe I am

off-kilter.

>

> But I think what makes me different from my nada is that I am off, I can admit

it without being too bent out of shape!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Annie, when I was 12 or 13 (after she tried to kill me), she was diagnosed with

Paranoid Schitzophrenia. The problem though is that her and her husband moved

away from that psychiatrist, and apparently her psychologist told her that she

did not have PS, and that she should go off her meds. Right back to square one.

While *most* of the Dx fit, there was always a niggle that it didn't QUITE fit.

BPD fits to a " T " and when she is " stressed " she dips into PS. She can live on

her own very well, unlike most PS affected people.

> >

> > Mine was obsessed with nuclear war. She made me watch those movies about

what happens to people after a nuculear attack. Threads. The Day After.

Testament. Etc.

> >

> > She was always trying to teach me what to do/what not to do if there was an

attack etc. Turned me into a real hoarder for a while. I've had to work on it.

LOL!

>

[Guest guest]

I'm so glad you survived your nada's attempt to kill you; that had to be a

terrifying, shocking, life-altering trauma for you, you poor little kid. I

can't comprehend why you weren't rescued from that household for your own

safety; instead you were left in the care of a parent who tried to kill you. I

just can't fathom that level of indifference from the legal system / psychiatric

system.

I can't recall if it was at this Group or another of the ones I belong to, that

I read other members' posts about how their parents would move themselves and/or

their family away from a town/state where they'd received a diagnosis of mental

illness, or where they'd come to the attention of Child Protective Services, or

the Health Department, or bill collectors, tax collectors, etc.

It seems to be a tactic to avoid consequences of bad behavior: relocate and

start over.

-Annie

>

> Annie, when I was 12 or 13 (after she tried to kill me), she was diagnosed

with Paranoid Schitzophrenia. The problem though is that her and her husband

moved away from that psychiatrist, and apparently her psychologist told her that

she did not have PS, and that she should go off her meds. Right back to square

one. While *most* of the Dx fit, there was always a niggle that it didn't QUITE

fit. BPD fits to a " T " and when she is " stressed " she dips into PS. She can live

on her own very well, unlike most PS affected people.

[Guest guest]

Annie,

It might have been me you're referring to. Constant moves: homelessness,

abandoned hotels, 'friends', ghetto's, you name it. 18 schools in 9 states

before HS graduation.

No one ever came to my rescue.

As an adult, I know now was running from the things you listed... and herself...

she always tried to say we were on a " Big Adventure " and how lucky I was. Even

to this day, she still says that....

Lynnette - the LUCKIEST GIRL IN THE WORLD!!!

> >

> > Annie, when I was 12 or 13 (after she tried to kill me), she was diagnosed

with Paranoid Schitzophrenia. The problem though is that her and her husband

moved away from that psychiatrist, and apparently her psychologist told her that

she did not have PS, and that she should go off her meds. Right back to square

one. While *most* of the Dx fit, there was always a niggle that it didn't QUITE

fit. BPD fits to a " T " and when she is " stressed " she dips into PS. She can live

on her own very well, unlike most PS affected people.

>

[Guest guest]

I'm so sorry you had no choice but to be dragged around in a gypsy-like

existence as a minor, totally and abjectly dependent for your very existence on

a mentally ill parent, with no options for rescue. Its just so tragic that

children are pretty much considered by law to be the property of their parent(s)

and have little ability to exercise or even demand any civil or human rights of

their own. A small child will cling screaming in terror to the parent who just

battered her instead of rushing into the arms of a potential rescuer who is a

stranger; children are hardwired to bond to their parents, even abusive ones.

Children have no choice in the matter.

I'm leaning toward the theory that psychopathic behavior presents differently in

males vs females.

It seems to me from what I've read that the male psychopath usually targets

those outside his own family to act out against or use to gratify their own

needs. The famous male psychopathic serial killers mostly had a spouse or

significant other and some even had children (the " double life " thing, again)

and chose strangers as their victims.

Theoretically the female psychopath instead targets her own children, mostly:

her own family members. From what I've read so far, it seems that the female

serial killer of strangers is rarer than rare. But a mother who targets her own

children or one of her own children (or grandchildren, or stepchildren) for

abuse, neglect, or exploitation (which is a kind of slow death for the child:

psychological death, and even physical death if the abuse/neglect/exploitation

is taken far enough) is much more common.

So, anyway. This is just a theory that seems to make sense to me, but I'm not a

scientist or a psychiatrist or a researcher, so, keep that in mind.

And keep in mind that I'm also leaning heavily toward the non-mainstream theory

that the Cluster B disorders are all actually the same disorder: psychopathy;

its just that psychopathy manifests differently in a range or spectrum from

individual to individual according to the degree of severity and frequency of

the traits/behaviors, and possibly manifests differently according to gender.

-Annie

>

> Annie,

> It might have been me you're referring to. Constant moves: homelessness,

abandoned hotels, 'friends', ghetto's, you name it. 18 schools in 9 states

before HS graduation.

>

> No one ever came to my rescue.

>

> As an adult, I know now was running from the things you listed... and

herself... she always tried to say we were on a " Big Adventure " and how lucky I

was. Even to this day, she still says that....

>

> Lynnette - the LUCKIEST GIRL IN THE WORLD!!!