Re: AGH! (WAS: Re: Emergency Transfers)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/23/2005 5:07:47 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

rabbiems@... writes:

Hi Lou:

My name is SSG.Rick Borenstein. I am a military as well as civilian

paramedic. Why does a nursing home get so ancy about having a private

service pick up their patients, It sounds as though they have something to

cover up if a resident is sick,injured or dying everytime they call.. It

seems as though they are in a hurry to get them to a hospital. They cannot

contact a doctor on a timely basis,tell you exactly what is wrong,or call

911 when it is apparaently needed.Finally,they take their time when

notifying a family or representative when needed. I have heard that DSHS

investigates everything or when they are sent out. Finally,it is called an

emergency transfer. I'm originally from NYC and Jersey too(parents). I

think I'm a Texan with a Jersey attitude. Regards, rabbiems,Rick,Doc. P.S.

What exactly is the situation in Texas?

Well Hello SSG, I spent a few years running CIV EMS with AMB SVCS at MAFB in

NJ so I feel a kindred spirit to the Military Medics of the world.

At times I think you are right, many " patient falls " I've seen seem not to

be " right " and on a few occasions back in NJ and PA I would call the patient

advocacy hotlines and make a notification of expected elder abuse. I am not

sure if this is the ONLY reason but I do agree many NH just don't' like 9-1-1

services in their sand boxes.

I knew there were more of us here then my Texas based friends admit too!

As for the " situation " I'm not sure what you're asking. Other than hotter

then hell on a bad day here in College Station things are good at least for me.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Cell Phone)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 23-Aug-05 17:07:42 Central Daylight Time,

rabbiems@... writes:

Hi Lou:

My name is SSG.Rick Borenstein. I am a military as well as civilian

paramedic. Why does a nursing home get so ancy about having a private

service pick up their patients, It sounds as though they have something to

cover up if a resident is sick,injured or dying everytime they call.. It

seems as though they are in a hurry to get them to a hospital. They cannot

contact a doctor on a timely basis,tell you exactly what is wrong,or call

911 when it is apparaently needed.Finally,they take their time when

notifying a family or representative when needed. I have heard that DSHS

investigates everything or when they are sent out. Finally,it is called an

emergency transfer. I'm originally from NYC and Jersey too(parents). I

think I'm a Texan with a Jersey attitude. Regards, rabbiems,Rick,Doc. P.S.

What exactly is the situation in Texas?

Actually, many nursing homes in Louisiana have arrangments with private

ambulance companies (and even when the NH doesn't, the patients often do) to

handle

all but the most urgent transfers.

And you don't want to know what I think of some of the nursing homes that

send patients in to my ED at odd hours...like the chap who was brought in around

1600 today...after a fall at 0400...with a classic broken hip.

I too have Jersey roots (9 years in the Caldwells), but have been down here

in Louisiana since 1987.

ck

S. Krin, DO

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/23/2005 7:45:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

krin135@... writes:

I too have Jersey roots (9 years in the Caldwells), but have been down here

in Louisiana since 1987.

Now that is a dangerous combination!

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Cell Phone)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

[Guest guest]

Hi Lou:

My name is SSG.Rick Borenstein. I am a military as well as civilian

paramedic. Why does a nursing home get so ancy about having a private

service pick up their patients, It sounds as though they have something to

cover up if a resident is sick,injured or dying everytime they call.. It

seems as though they are in a hurry to get them to a hospital. They cannot

contact a doctor on a timely basis,tell you exactly what is wrong,or call

911 when it is apparaently needed.Finally,they take their time when

notifying a family or representative when needed. I have heard that DSHS

investigates everything or when they are sent out. Finally,it is called an

emergency transfer. I'm originally from NYC and Jersey too(parents). I

think I'm a Texan with a Jersey attitude. Regards, rabbiems,Rick,Doc. P.S.

What exactly is the situation in Texas?

> [Original Message]

>

> To: < >

> Date: 8/23/2005 4:40:43 PM

> Subject: AGH! (WAS: Re: Emergency Transfers)

>

>

>

> In a message dated 8/23/2005 4:37:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> goldstar517@... writes:

>

> " gomer tote. "

>

>

> Agh!

>

> Sorry but being a reformed member of the " gomer " tote gang I was once

> reminded that Gomer's tend to be called mother, father, brother, sister,

uncle,

> aunt, husband and wife among other things.

>

> Patient advocacy, like ethics is what you do when no one is looking.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> LNMolino@...

> (Office)

> (Cell Phone)

> (Office Fax)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and

the

> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

> organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

unless I

> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended

only for its

> stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain

by the

> original author.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Lou:

Every time I have responded to a Nursing Home,they are in a hurry to get

the pt.to a hospital. You get very little information out of them

voluntarily unless you really push hard.They call it a transfer. To me, it

seems like there is an effort to have a minimum amount of fanfare about the

call. Sometimes, I get a call on a pt. who is actually dying and is later

returned to a NH.What exactly is nursing home fearing. I would like to know

why private ambulance services are used vs. 911 services. In my experience

when I have been in a rural 911 system the behavior is the same. I have

also been stationed at March AFB in 452nd APSS and we worked at the

hospital.I was with them from 92-94. I was flight medic as was the rest of

the squadron. On my issue of Nursing Homes and EMS I have never gotten a

straight story of why tis situation exists.RESPECTS,rabbiems

> [Original Message]

>

> To: < >

> Date: 8/23/2005 5:47:33 PM

> Subject: Re: AGH! (WAS: Re: Emergency Transfers)

>

>

>

> In a message dated 8/23/2005 5:07:47 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> rabbiems@... writes:

>

> Hi Lou:

> My name is SSG.Rick Borenstein. I am a military as well as civilian

> paramedic. Why does a nursing home get so ancy about having a private

> service pick up their patients, It sounds as though they have something

to

> cover up if a resident is sick,injured or dying everytime they call.. It

> seems as though they are in a hurry to get them to a hospital. They

cannot

> contact a doctor on a timely basis,tell you exactly what is wrong,or call

> 911 when it is apparaently needed.Finally,they take their time when

> notifying a family or representative when needed. I have heard that DSHS

> investigates everything or when they are sent out. Finally,it is called

an

> emergency transfer. I'm originally from NYC and Jersey too(parents). I

> think I'm a Texan with a Jersey attitude. Regards, rabbiems,Rick,Doc.

P.S.

> What exactly is the situation in Texas?

>

>

> Well Hello SSG, I spent a few years running CIV EMS with AMB SVCS at

MAFB in

> NJ so I feel a kindred spirit to the Military Medics of the world.

>

> At times I think you are right, many " patient falls " I've seen seem not

to

> be " right " and on a few occasions back in NJ and PA I would call the

patient

> advocacy hotlines and make a notification of expected elder abuse. I am

not

> sure if this is the ONLY reason but I do agree many NH just don't' like

9-1-1

> services in their sand boxes.

>

> I knew there were more of us here then my Texas based friends admit too!

>

> As for the " situation " I'm not sure what you're asking. Other than hotter

> then hell on a bad day here in College Station things are good at least

for me.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> LNMolino@...

> (Office)

> (Cell Phone)

> (Office Fax)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and

the

> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

> organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

unless I

> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended

only for its

> stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain

by the

> original author.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

One issue in many locales is that the 911 service wants nothing more to do with

the nursing home patient than the nursing home wants to do with 911

agencies...it is a 2 way street.

Dudley

AGH! (WAS: Re: Emergency Transfers)

>

>

>

> In a message dated 8/23/2005 4:37:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> goldstar517@... writes:

>

> " gomer tote. "

>

>

> Agh!

>

> Sorry but being a reformed member of the " gomer " tote gang I was once

> reminded that Gomer's tend to be called mother, father, brother, sister,

uncle,

> aunt, husband and wife among other things.

>

> Patient advocacy, like ethics is what you do when no one is looking.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> LNMolino@...

> (Office)

> (Cell Phone)

> (Office Fax)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and

the

> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

> organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

unless I

> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended

only for its

> stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain

by the

> original author.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Our service takes these patients and even provides a transfer truck. Don't

forget that these patients are well funded. M

AGH! (WAS: Re: Emergency Transfers)

>

>

>

> In a message dated 8/23/2005 4:37:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> goldstar517@... writes:

>

> gomer tote.

>

>

> Agh!

>

> Sorry but being a reformed member of the gomer tote gang I was once

> reminded that Gomer's tend to be called mother, father, brother, sister,

uncle,

> aunt, husband and wife among other things.

>

> Patient advocacy, like ethics is what you do when no one is looking.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> LNMolino@...

> (Office)

> (Cell Phone)

> (Office Fax)

>

> A Texan with a Jersey Attitude

>

> The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and

the

> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

> organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

unless I

> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended

only for its

> stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain

by the

> original author.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I asked that very question about why a nursing home called a private ambulance

service rather than 911, and was told that the privates were willing to come

quietly and the 911 services tend to come with lights and sirens blazing, and

fire ems would send a fire truck plus an ambulance. They said that scared other

residents and caused a lot of commotion in the nursing home. (now bear in mind,

that was only the oppinion of a couple of nursing homes and not all.

Daphne

--------- Re: AGH! (WAS: Re: Emergency Transfers)

>

>

>

> In a message dated 8/23/2005 5:07:47 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> rabbiems@... writes:

>

> Hi Lou:

> My name is SSG.Rick Borenstein. I am a military as well as civilian

> paramedic. Why does a nursing home get so ancy about having a private

> service pick up their patients, It sounds as though they have something

to

> cover up if a resident is sick,injured or dying everytime they call.. It

> seems as though they are in a hurry to get them to a hospital. They

cannot

> contact a doctor on a timely basis,tell you exactly what is wrong,or call

> 911 when it is apparaently needed.Finally,they take their time when

> notifying a family or representative when needed. I have heard that DSHS

> investigates everything or when they are sent out. Finally,it is called

an

> emergency transfer. I'm originally from NYC and Jersey too(parents). I

> think I'm a Texan with a Jersey attitude. Regards, rabbiems,Rick,Doc.

P.S.

> What exactly is the situation in Texas?

>

>

> Well Hello SSG, I spent a few years running CIV EMS with AMB SVCS at

MAFB in

> NJ so I feel a kindred spirit to the Military Medics of the world.

>

> At times I think you are right, many " patient falls " I've seen seem not

to

> be " right " and on a few occasions back in NJ and PA I would call the

patient

> advocacy hotlines and make a notification of expected elder abuse. I am

not

> sure if this is the ONLY reason but I do agree many NH just don't' like

9-1-1

> services in their sand boxes.

>

> I knew there were more of us here then my Texas based friends admit too!

>

> As for the " situation " I'm not sure what you're asking. Other than hotter

> then hell on a bad day here in College Station things are good at least

for me.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> LNMolino@...

> (Office)

> (Cell Phone)

> (Office Fax)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and

the

> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

> organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

unless I

> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended

only for its

> stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain

by the

> original author.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/24/2005 11:38:30 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

lanelson1@... writes:

Maxine Pate wrote:

A question for the management-types who are reading this: How many of you

have a mental black list that contains the names of people you would never

consider hiring because of the

things they have posted here?

Gee that explains my inability to find a job.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Cell Phone)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

[Guest guest]

Thank You, I was just about to hop on it to.

Henry

lnmolino@... wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 8/23/2005 4:37:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> goldstar517@... writes:

>

> " gomer tote. "

>

> Agh!

>

> Sorry but being a reformed member of the " gomer " tote gang I was once

> reminded that Gomer's tend to be called mother, father, brother, sister,

uncle,

> aunt, husband and wife among other things.

>

> Patient advocacy, like ethics is what you do when no one is looking.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> LNMolino@...

> (Office)

> (Cell Phone)

> (Office Fax)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

> organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

unless I

> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for its

> stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by

the

> original author.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I consider myself to be a gomer convert. There was a time that I had the

" another gomer tow " mentality. Then along came a man in his 70's, who told

me stories of WWII, and what it was really like to storm the beaches of

Normandy, and he knew because he was there. I look forward to transporting

him these days, along with others, just for the stories they tell. Amazing

what you can learn from them.

Hatfield FF/EMT-P

" Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditiones habes "

Re: AGH! (WAS: Re: Emergency Transfers)

Thank You, I was just about to hop on it to.

Henry

lnmolino@... wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 8/23/2005 4:37:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> goldstar517@... writes:

>

> " gomer tote. "

>

> Agh!

>

> Sorry but being a reformed member of the " gomer " tote gang I was once

> reminded that Gomer's tend to be called mother, father, brother, sister,

uncle,

> aunt, husband and wife among other things.

>

> Patient advocacy, like ethics is what you do when no one is looking.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> LNMolino@...

> (Office)

> (Cell Phone)

> (Office Fax)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and

the

> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

> organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

unless I

> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended

only for its

> stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain

by the

> original author.

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 24-Aug-05 13:55:12 Central Daylight Time,

rabbiems@... writes:

Hi Lou:

SSG.Rick Borenstein again,why legally do nursing homes prefer a private

service when available vs. 911. I will take any patient no matter who

calls. Why do they wait so long to find a doctor to make the transfer

possible. Is there a fear of lawsutis by family or TDH inquiries everytime

a call occurs. I need to understand their mindset,as I can offer better

service to them. Please fill me in on what you know.

Regards,rabbiems,Rick,doc.

Not Lou, but here in Louisiana, there are a variety of reasons:

There may not be a municipal EMS, but may be two or more competing private

firms...and the Nursing Home may contract with one for preferred treatment...or

the family may have a membership with another, and get preferred treatment

(read waiver of fees) from them.

The corporation which owns/operates the nursing home may also own a private

ambulance firm....

Municipal EMS units may require a RLS response for a fall (for example), even

with nursing personnel at the scene, and that can be quite disruptive at 0300.

I have more trouble with nursing home personnel who apparently can NOT

properly assess a patient...such as one that I saw recently where the patient

(otherwise walking, talking and potty trained) had a slip and fall at 0400...he

complained of hip pain, could not bear weight on the sore hip and was put to

bed,

but the problem comes that the leg rotation, leg shortening and hip flexion

was not recognized by the nurses as a possible problem for 12 hours...even the

Basic Student doing a ride along that night recognized that problem...

ck

S. Krin, DO

[Guest guest]

I like that phrase, " jackpot list " . Are you

revealing trade secrets?

BTW, I caught my own mistake in my second

paragraph-- " to uneducated " should have been " too

uneducated " .

Maxine Pate

message ----

Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 09:44:28 -0400

From: ExLngHrn@...

>Maxine -- I'm not an EMS manager, but I do have a

" jackpot list " of potential defendants, just like

any other lawyer who can read the list... <EVIL

GRIN>

>

>-Wes Ogilvie

>

[Guest guest]

I had an elderly patient a few years ago who had

Alzheimers, was confused, and didn't even know what

day of the week it was. When she talked about her

days as a teacher in " the black school " during the

days of segregation, though, her memories were clear

and her voice strong.

It's kind of sad to think about how many of our

" living memories " are dying every day. It won't be

long before there won't be anyone around who was

alive during the times that your patient and

mine lived through. Then we'll only be able to read

about it in books, and that just won't be the same.

Maxine Pate

---- Original message ----

Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 08:54:10 -0500

Subject: RE: AGH! (WAS: Re: Emergency

Transfers)

To: < >

>I consider myself to be a gomer convert. There

was a time that I had the

> " another gomer tow " mentality. Then along came a

man in his 70's, who told

>me stories of WWII, and what it was really like

to storm the beaches of

>Normandy, and he knew because he was there. I

look forward to transporting

>him these days, along with others, just for the

stories they tell. Amazing

>what you can learn from them.

>

> Hatfield FF/EMT-P

>

> " Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditiones habes "

>

[Guest guest]

That is exactly why you SHOULD find it an HONOR to do such calls. The days

of the oral recitation of history has long since fallen by the wayside. If

it isn't on DVD, History Channel or in some revered tome, then it must not

be very relevant or " cool " enough to matter. I have many times transported

a patient where all I did was LISTEN to then. Perhaps I was the only person

to REALLY listen to them in quite some time. Perhaps I was the LAST person

to hear their stories of adventure, anguish, or amazement.

Transfers are part of our field, whether you like them or not. I don't care

HOW MUCH you loathe this type of call, you MUST do the call, providing the

utmost in professional care, compassion, and LISTEN to your patient. No

matter what you think of doing non-emergency transfers, you need to remember

this: that patient deserves to be given back the dignity they have lost - do

you REALLY think they want to need your services? Do you REALLY think they

ENJOY being a resident of " Negligence Manor " or " Satancare Nursing Home " ?

You also need to remember that this patient is somebody's spouse, parent,

grandparent, etc. Would you like someone to treat YOUR grandmother like she

was a burden? Like she was just another " gomer " , " lizard " or " troll " ? Let

me tell you something, I have BEEN there, people. The " professionals " at a

private service in another state ordered my grandmother (who had Alzheimer's

Disease) to " get on the cart, you old bat " , just as I walked into the room.

Those EMT's almost got a beating the likes they could have never even

dreamed of. Luckily my Mother was with me, and she " convinced " me to settle

for seeing them lose their jobs (this wasn't the first complaint,

apparently).

And don't forget, many of us had to get our starts doing non-emergency work.

There are some places in Texas and the United States in general, where the

private services are not ALLOWED to run emergency calls. Some areas are SO

restrictive that if a patient were to " crater " in the back of your rig, and

you are more than a certain amount of time from a hospital, you are required

BY REGULATIONS to pull over, call the municipal provider, and await their

arrival to take the patient off your hands. This means the ONLY way you get

to use even the most rudimentary skills in during a non-emergency " tote " .

But as I basically stated previously, this is an excellent time to home your

LISTENING skills.

Stay Safe,

Barry E. McClung, Paramedic/Crew Chief

North Blanco County EMS

City, Texas

[Guest guest]

No, just revealing my semi-secret plans for affording a retirement to a ranch

and a life of watching Flintstones re-runs as the interest piles up on a

multi-million dollar fee. (Ahh, the dream of every lawyer -- to hit the " one big

case. " )

-Wes

Re: AGH! (WAS: Re: Emergency Transfers)

I like that phrase, " jackpot list " . Are you

revealing trade secrets?

BTW, I caught my own mistake in my second

paragraph-- " to uneducated " should have been " too

uneducated " .

Maxine Pate

message ----

Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 09:44:28 -0400

From: ExLngHrn@...

>Maxine -- I'm not an EMS manager, but I do have a

" jackpot list " of potential defendants, just like

any other lawyer who can read the list... <EVIL

GRIN>

>

>-Wes Ogilvie

>

[Guest guest]

At my volunteer agency, we discuss potential new members and vote up or down

as to whether or not we want them in the organization (too bad the U.S.

Senate can't work that easily), so any " problems " are brought out. Although

I don't have the power to hire and fire at my paid job, I do have a certain

amount of influence on the process. I definitely keep a list of " special

cases " who I've encountered over the years, both in person and on message

boards/listservers.

Barry E. McClung, EMT-P

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Pate, Maxine

Sent: Wednesday, 24 August, 2005 08:27

To:

Subject: Re: AGH! (WAS: Re: Emergency Transfers)

A question for the management-types who are reading this: How many of you

have a mental black list that

contains the names of people you would never consider hiring because of the

things they have posted here?

[Guest guest]

It is always very interesting to engage someone in conversation who has

lived in the same town for 75 years or more. The events and changes

that they have experienced boggle the mind. Those conversations often

take the patient to a better time and place, getting their mind off the

struggles of their present situation. The conversation can do the same

for the provider if the circumstances of the transfer are less than

ideal.

Regardless of your situation in life, there is always someone worse off

that yourself. Having the skills to provide them some relief - mental

or physical - is a gift. Being given the opportunity to do so is an

honor. We (me included) all too often forget that being invited to be

with someone in their time of need is an honor regardless of validity of

the need.

********************************************************

, MPA, LP

Interim Chief Administrative Officer

EMS Director

Montgomery County Hospital District

P.O. Box 478

Conroe, Texas 77305

office :

fax:

________________________________

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Barry McClung

Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:44 AM

To:

Subject: RE: AGH! (WAS: Re: Emergency Transfers)

That is exactly why you SHOULD find it an HONOR to do such calls. The

days

of the oral recitation of history has long since fallen by the wayside.

If

it isn't on DVD, History Channel or in some revered tome, then it must

not

be very relevant or " cool " enough to matter. I have many times

transported

a patient where all I did was LISTEN to then. Perhaps I was the only

person

to REALLY listen to them in quite some time. Perhaps I was the LAST

person

to hear their stories of adventure, anguish, or amazement.

Transfers are part of our field, whether you like them or not. I don't

care

HOW MUCH you loathe this type of call, you MUST do the call, providing

the

utmost in professional care, compassion, and LISTEN to your patient. No

matter what you think of doing non-emergency transfers, you need to

remember

this: that patient deserves to be given back the dignity they have lost

- do

you REALLY think they want to need your services? Do you REALLY think

they

ENJOY being a resident of " Negligence Manor " or " Satancare Nursing

Home " ?

You also need to remember that this patient is somebody's spouse,

parent,

grandparent, etc. Would you like someone to treat YOUR grandmother like

she

was a burden? Like she was just another " gomer " , " lizard " or " troll " ?

Let

me tell you something, I have BEEN there, people. The " professionals "

at a

private service in another state ordered my grandmother (who had

Alzheimer's

Disease) to " get on the cart, you old bat " , just as I walked into the

room.

Those EMT's almost got a beating the likes they could have never even

dreamed of. Luckily my Mother was with me, and she " convinced " me to

settle

for seeing them lose their jobs (this wasn't the first complaint,

apparently).

And don't forget, many of us had to get our starts doing non-emergency

work.

There are some places in Texas and the United States in general, where

the

private services are not ALLOWED to run emergency calls. Some areas are

SO

restrictive that if a patient were to " crater " in the back of your rig,

and

you are more than a certain amount of time from a hospital, you are

required

BY REGULATIONS to pull over, call the municipal provider, and await

their

arrival to take the patient off your hands. This means the ONLY way you

get

to use even the most rudimentary skills in during a non-emergency

" tote " .

But as I basically stated previously, this is an excellent time to home

your

LISTENING skills.

Stay Safe,

Barry E. McClung, Paramedic/Crew Chief

North Blanco County EMS

City, Texas

[Guest guest]

\ " Service is love made visible. Friendship is love made personal. Kindness is

love made tangible. Giving is love made believable\ " - Anonymous

Larry in Houston

-- \ " , \ " wrote:

It is always very interesting to engage someone in conversation who has

lived in the same town for 75 years or more. The events and changes

that they have experienced boggle the mind. Those conversations often

take the patient to a better time and place, getting their mind off the

struggles of their present situation. The conversation can do the same

for the provider if the circumstances of the transfer are less than

ideal.

Regardless of your situation in life, there is always someone worse off

that yourself. Having the skills to provide them some relief - mental

or physical - is a gift. Being given the opportunity to do so is an

honor. We (me included) all too often forget that being invited to be

with someone in their time of need is an honor regardless of validity of

the need.

********************************************************

, MPA, LP

Interim Chief Administrative Officer

EMS Director

Montgomery County Hospital District

P.O. Box 478

Conroe, Texas 77305

office :

fax:

________________________________

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Barry McClung

Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:44 AM

To:

Subject: RE: AGH! (WAS: Re: Emergency Transfers)

That is exactly why you SHOULD find it an HONOR to do such calls. The

days

of the oral recitation of history has long since fallen by the wayside.

If

it isn't on DVD, History Channel or in some revered tome, then it must

not

be very relevant or " cool " enough to matter. I have many times

transported

a patient where all I did was LISTEN to then. Perhaps I was the only

person

to REALLY listen to them in quite some time. Perhaps I was the LAST

person

to hear their stories of adventure, anguish, or amazement.

Transfers are part of our field, whether you like them or not. I don't

care

HOW MUCH you loathe this type of call, you MUST do the call, providing

the

utmost in professional care, compassion, and LISTEN to your patient. No

matter what you think of doing non-emergency transfers, you need to

remember

this: that patient deserves to be given back the dignity they have lost

- do

you REALLY think they want to need your services? Do you REALLY think

they

ENJOY being a resident of " Negligence Manor " or " Satancare Nursing

Home " ?

You also need to remember that this patient is somebody's spouse,

parent,

grandparent, etc. Would you like someone to treat YOUR grandmother like

she

was a burden? Like she was just another " gomer " , " lizard " or " troll " ?

Let

me tell you something, I have BEEN there, people. The " professionals "

at a

private service in another state ordered my grandmother (who had

Alzheimer's

Disease) to " get on the cart, you old bat " , just as I walked into the

room.

Those EMT's almost got a beating the likes they could have never even

dreamed of. Luckily my Mother was with me, and she " convinced " me to

settle

for seeing them lose their jobs (this wasn't the first complaint,

apparently).

And don't forget, many of us had to get our starts doing non-emergency

work.

There are some places in Texas and the United States in general, where

the

private services are not ALLOWED to run emergency calls. Some areas are

SO

restrictive that if a patient were to " crater " in the back of your rig,

and

you are more than a certain amount of time from a hospital, you are

required

BY REGULATIONS to pull over, call the municipal provider, and await

their

arrival to take the patient off your hands. This means the ONLY way you

get

to use even the most rudimentary skills in during a non-emergency

" tote " .

But as I basically stated previously, this is an excellent time to home

your

LISTENING skills.

Stay Safe,

Barry E. McClung, Paramedic/Crew Chief

North Blanco County EMS

City, Texas

[Guest guest]

-- \ " , \ " wrote:

It is always very interesting to engage someone in conversation who has

lived in the same town for 75 years or more. The events and changes

that they have experienced boggle the mind.

Especially among the WW2 era. This 'greatest generation' is dying at about 1000

per week and that experience and wisdom is gone forever. Catch what you can,

while you can.

\ " Service is love made visible. Friendship is love made personal. Kindness is

love made tangible. Giving is love made believable\ " - Anonymous

Larry in Houston

[Guest guest]

Maxine Pate wrote:

A question for the management-types who are reading this: How many of you

have a mental black list that contains the names of people you would never

consider hiring because of the

things they have posted here?

Oh yeah... definitely I keep a 'tickler file' of certain individuals from this

list, those I have seen before with other companies and former co-workers.

But, I also keep a list of those who impress me, also.

\ " Service is love made visible. Friendship is love made personal. Kindness is

love made tangible. Giving is love made believable\ " - Anonymous

Larry in Houston

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 24-Aug-05 14:31:04 Central Daylight Time,

lanelson1@... writes:

-- krin135@... wrote:

" ...I have more trouble with nursing home personnel who apparently can NOT

properly assess a patient...even the Basic Student doing a ride along that

night recognized that problem...

Speaking as a RN and EMT-P (and NOT wanting to start a Nurse vs. Medic flame

war), you have to compare the focus of training. Basic Nursing curriculums

(both RN and LVN/LPN) have a poor exposure to emergency care. That is why you

see

so many 'medics gone bad' (g) who practice their nursing in ED and Critical

Care.

Also... (deep breath)... MOST (not ALL) of the nurses I have dealt with in

nursing homes are not exactly the 'sharpest knives in the drawer'. They prefer

the recurrance and rare change in acuity, because they seem not to be able to

keep up. MAYBE if their assesssment skills were better, they would be better,

but I haven't seen any evidence of it.

Bull...from two levels...

I started out in 1973 pushing bedpans in a nursing home...so I know somewhat

of where I speak.

These are the same nurses who will send a patient in at 3 am for a sniffle

and a fever of 100...'that just started'...only to find from the family that

they have been trying to get someone to pay attention to the patient for a week.

Any nurse who passed basic anatomy and physiology should be able to recognize

that it's not right for a previously ambulatory patient not to be able to walk

because their leg looks funny.

These are also the same facilities that are purportedly providing rehab

facilities to folks with significant orthopedic or neurologic problems....which

means that the nurses should be familiar with the appropriate anatomy.

At least this time, the nurses called ahead with something approaching a

decent report something that is often only obtained after a call to the Director

of Nursing and a comment about $50 000 fines.

ck

S. Krin, DO

[Guest guest]

several years ago my 16 y/o son who is now 21 had to do some community service

for a ticket he got. he was sent to a nursing home all day for 4 or 5 days. his

comments were something to the order of " old people are really cool "

jim davis

" Hatfield, " wrote:

I consider myself to be a gomer convert. There was a time that I had the

" another gomer tow " mentality. Then along came a man in his 70's, who told

me stories of WWII, and what it was really like to storm the beaches of

Normandy, and he knew because he was there. I look forward to transporting

him these days, along with others, just for the stories they tell. Amazing

what you can learn from them.

Hatfield FF/EMT-P

" Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditiones habes "

Re: AGH! (WAS: Re: Emergency Transfers)

Thank You, I was just about to hop on it to.

Henry

lnmolino@... wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 8/23/2005 4:37:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> goldstar517@... writes:

>

> " gomer tote. "

>

> Agh!

>

> Sorry but being a reformed member of the " gomer " tote gang I was once

> reminded that Gomer's tend to be called mother, father, brother, sister,

uncle,

> aunt, husband and wife among other things.

>

> Patient advocacy, like ethics is what you do when no one is looking.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> LNMolino@...

> (Office)

> (Cell Phone)

> (Office Fax)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and

the

> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

> organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

unless I

> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended

only for its

> stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain

by the

> original author.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well said Berry. I have had the honor of talking to vet of the D-Day landings to

me he is living history

Barry McClung wrote:That is exactly why you SHOULD

find it an HONOR to do such calls. The days

of the oral recitation of history has long since fallen by the wayside. If

it isn't on DVD, History Channel or in some revered tome, then it must not

be very relevant or " cool " enough to matter. I have many times transported

a patient where all I did was LISTEN to then. Perhaps I was the only person

to REALLY listen to them in quite some time. Perhaps I was the LAST person

to hear their stories of adventure, anguish, or amazement.

Transfers are part of our field, whether you like them or not. I don't care

HOW MUCH you loathe this type of call, you MUST do the call, providing the

utmost in professional care, compassion, and LISTEN to your patient. No

matter what you think of doing non-emergency transfers, you need to remember

this: that patient deserves to be given back the dignity they have lost - do

you REALLY think they want to need your services? Do you REALLY think they

ENJOY being a resident of " Negligence Manor " or " Satancare Nursing Home " ?

You also need to remember that this patient is somebody's spouse, parent,

grandparent, etc. Would you like someone to treat YOUR grandmother like she

was a burden? Like she was just another " gomer " , " lizard " or " troll " ? Let

me tell you something, I have BEEN there, people. The " professionals " at a

private service in another state ordered my grandmother (who had Alzheimer's

Disease) to " get on the cart, you old bat " , just as I walked into the room.

Those EMT's almost got a beating the likes they could have never even

dreamed of. Luckily my Mother was with me, and she " convinced " me to settle

for seeing them lose their jobs (this wasn't the first complaint,

apparently).

And don't forget, many of us had to get our starts doing non-emergency work.

There are some places in Texas and the United States in general, where the

private services are not ALLOWED to run emergency calls. Some areas are SO

restrictive that if a patient were to " crater " in the back of your rig, and

you are more than a certain amount of time from a hospital, you are required

BY REGULATIONS to pull over, call the municipal provider, and await their

arrival to take the patient off your hands. This means the ONLY way you get

to use even the most rudimentary skills in during a non-emergency " tote " .

But as I basically stated previously, this is an excellent time to home your

LISTENING skills.

Stay Safe,

Barry E. McClung, Paramedic/Crew Chief

North Blanco County EMS

City, Texas

[Guest guest]

Barry wrote: " ... I have BEEN there, people. The " professionals " at a private

service in another state ordered my grandmother (who had Alzheimer's

Disease) to " get on the cart, you old bat " , just as I walked into the room. "

Barry - I admire your restraint. I think I would have yanked the arm off one of

them and beat them both to death with it.

\ " Service is love made visible. Friendship is love made personal. Kindness is

love made tangible. Giving is love made believable\ " - Anonymous

Larry in Houston