Re: The Thanksgiving holiday

October 26, 2010

Maybe you and hubby could volunteer to work at one of the places near you that

serves dinner to the needy. You would avoid family without travel, and they

always need people to cook, serve, etc.

Em

Sent from my blueberry.

> So, what are everyone's way of holiday coping (I'm LC) with bpd parents?

Holidays are absolute torture, even worse since my kids are grown and going off

on their own. I have been to 2 dinners with my folks over the last 2 months that

were nightmares. And last Thanksgiving my mother said a grace that embarassed or

insulted everyone at the table.

>

> My husband would be happy to not spend another holiday with them, and I simply

can't face another holiday with her either.

>

> We could go away, but that would feel like running away and I am not sure I

can afford a trip.

>

> I have told my kids that if they decide to come home I will be serving turkey

tacos that day.

>

October 26, 2010

Thanks, Em!

I hadn't thought of that one yet! That is the ONE place my mother would not have

the guts to follow after me. And it would feed my soul at the same time.

>

> Maybe you and hubby could volunteer to work at one of the places near you that

serves dinner to the needy. You would avoid family without travel, and they

always need people to cook, serve, etc.

>

> Em

>

> Sent from my blueberry.

>

October 26, 2010

I agree with that suggestion, and recommend it. I've done that myself on

several Thanksgivings and it really is a joyful experience, particularly if you

are doing it as part of a Group or if you take a friend with you, although if

you go alone its a great way to meet other people who enjoy volunteer work.

I hope each of us will have a lovely Holiday season that does not involve

enduring emotional abuse by mentally ill parents; if being trapped with abusive

parents or other foo is part of your holiday scene, then maybe its time to

create your own new Holiday traditions, sez I.

-Annie

> >

> > Maybe you and hubby could volunteer to work at one of the places near you

that serves dinner to the needy. You would avoid family without travel, and they

always need people to cook, serve, etc.

> >

> > Em

> >

> > Sent from my blueberry.

> >

>

October 26, 2010

I don't know how vile your family is, but mine are so predictable in their

awfulness that it ends up being quite funny, if I can detach myself enough. I

pretend I'm collecting material for a movie or book, then come home and blog

about it all.

Having said that, would it be really difficult for you to just not go? If you

don't go, will you feel awful or end up having the best holiday you've had in

years?

>

> So, what are everyone's way of holiday coping (I'm LC) with bpd parents?

Holidays are absolute torture, even worse since my kids are grown and going off

on their own. I have been to 2 dinners with my folks over the last 2 months that

were nightmares. And last Thanksgiving my mother said a grace that embarassed or

insulted everyone at the table.

>

> My husband would be happy to not spend another holiday with them, and I simply

can't face another holiday with her either.

>

> We could go away, but that would feel like running away and I am not sure I

can afford a trip.

>

> I have told my kids that if they decide to come home I will be serving turkey

tacos that day.

>

October 28, 2010

My mother is becoming more vile as she gets older! My sister has opted out of

holidays for the past 10+ years, so I have been trying to handle them on my own.

As mom has gotten older, prepping the meal has become more difficult for her.

Believe me, I would love to just be able to " show up, eat and leave. " But mom

manufactures delays, etc., to keep us from eating, to keep us there later and

later.

Last year at this time my mom was scheduled for surgery. My sister suggested we

jointly cook dinner at mom's new house (she was supposed to be DOPED up). The

surgery got postponed, and we ended up cooking anyway. Instead of mom being

thankful, she was argumentative and nasty. She insisted on saying a grace, in

which she insulted everyone at the table. She flat out called me a bitch,

pointed out my husband was unemployed (he's self employed), my father a

continual failure to her, my bro-in-law a oxygen deprived stroke victim and my

sister unable to keep her business in the red. WTF?

Of course, later she said she was just joking. Uh-hu, right. A Catholic all her

life, the regular daily grace would have sufficed. But then NADA couldn't have

riled us all up. How's that as a thank you for making her Thanksgiving Dinner

and cleaning it all up?

>

> I don't know how vile your family is, but mine are so predictable in their

awfulness that it ends up being quite funny, if I can detach myself enough. I

pretend I'm collecting material for a movie or book, then come home and blog

about it all.

>

> Having said that, would it be really difficult for you to just not go? If you

don't go, will you feel awful or end up having the best holiday you've had in

years?

>

October 28, 2010

I hear you, Echo! (pun intended, lol!)

Eight or nine years ago I visited the state where most of my relatives live

(including nada) for Thanksgiving; it wasn't too bad because nada and I were

invited to have Thanksgiving dinner at her brother-in-law's home with his

family.

Nada tends to behave herself around other people for the most part, and saves up

her irritations, frustrations, jealousies, and rages for when she and I are

alone. It was on the drive back to her home that I got to hear an hour's worth

of what was wrong about the meal, who was being rude or obnoxious, and what I

did wrong. The Hymn of Negativity, as sung by Nada.

I've had some of the nicest and most enjoyable Thanksgiving dinners with my

other single friends, when we go to a restaurant together, and then go see a

movie or something. I think that's what I'll suggest again this year.

Holidays should be about relaxing and sharing joy and peace with friends, not

making yourself a target for attack by a hateful and hostile witch/raging bully,

or catering to a whiny, demanding, obnoxious 2-year-old in the body of an adult.

In my opinion, anyway.

-Annie

>

> My mother is becoming more vile as she gets older! My sister has opted out of

holidays for the past 10+ years, so I have been trying to handle them on my own.

As mom has gotten older, prepping the meal has become more difficult for her.

Believe me, I would love to just be able to " show up, eat and leave. " But mom

manufactures delays, etc., to keep us from eating, to keep us there later and

later.

>

> Last year at this time my mom was scheduled for surgery. My sister suggested

we jointly cook dinner at mom's new house (she was supposed to be DOPED up). The

surgery got postponed, and we ended up cooking anyway. Instead of mom being

thankful, she was argumentative and nasty. She insisted on saying a grace, in

which she insulted everyone at the table. She flat out called me a bitch,

pointed out my husband was unemployed (he's self employed), my father a

continual failure to her, my bro-in-law a oxygen deprived stroke victim and my

sister unable to keep her business in the red. WTF?

>

> Of course, later she said she was just joking. Uh-hu, right. A Catholic all

her life, the regular daily grace would have sufficed. But then NADA couldn't

have riled us all up. How's that as a thank you for making her Thanksgiving

Dinner and cleaning it all up?

October 28, 2010

> Holidays should be about relaxing and sharing joy and peace with friends, not

making yourself a target for attack by a hateful and hostile witch/raging bully,

or catering to a whiny, demanding, obnoxious 2-year-old in the body of an adult.

>

> In my opinion, anyway.

>

> -Annie

>

Well said!

K

October 28, 2010

Wow! Why is it so difficult to " just say no " to these interactions. I have a

sick kind of interest in what weird thing she will dream up next. It's horribly

fascinating.

I think it's time for me to distance myself as much as possible emotionally and

physically. Then, and only then, will I be able to develop some more healthy

interactions.

Working on my master's in counseling only worsens my interest in her " case " . I

switched to school counseling to get out of this habit of caring for mentally

ill people which drains me so much.

> >

> > I don't know how vile your family is, but mine are so predictable in their

awfulness that it ends up being quite funny, if I can detach myself enough. I

pretend I'm collecting material for a movie or book, then come home and blog

about it all.

> >

> > Having said that, would it be really difficult for you to just not go? If

you don't go, will you feel awful or end up having the best holiday you've had

in years?

> >

>

October 28, 2010

Well said. Could not have put it better myself. I will also make sure

interactions occur around others when necessary. She has a whole public persona

thing which is quite charming.

p.s. Don't EVER get stuck in a car with this person again! Been there, taken

that beating. She even honks the horn to scare me when I walk near the car and

laughs when I jump and tell her AGAIN not to do that. (I'm very easily startled

because of the early scaring and startling that was done for family's

entertainment. My husband tries to warn me when he's coming home. It's utterly

ridiculous. I have told him it's not his fault, not his problem, but he feels

bad when I jump at the sound of a voice or door opening.)

> >

> > My mother is becoming more vile as she gets older! My sister has opted out

of holidays for the past 10+ years, so I have been trying to handle them on my

own. As mom has gotten older, prepping the meal has become more difficult for

her. Believe me, I would love to just be able to " show up, eat and leave. " But

mom manufactures delays, etc., to keep us from eating, to keep us there later

and later.

> >

> > Last year at this time my mom was scheduled for surgery. My sister suggested

we jointly cook dinner at mom's new house (she was supposed to be DOPED up). The

surgery got postponed, and we ended up cooking anyway. Instead of mom being

thankful, she was argumentative and nasty. She insisted on saying a grace, in

which she insulted everyone at the table. She flat out called me a bitch,

pointed out my husband was unemployed (he's self employed), my father a

continual failure to her, my bro-in-law a oxygen deprived stroke victim and my

sister unable to keep her business in the red. WTF?

> >

> > Of course, later she said she was just joking. Uh-hu, right. A Catholic all

her life, the regular daily grace would have sufficed. But then NADA couldn't

have riled us all up. How's that as a thank you for making her Thanksgiving

Dinner and cleaning it all up?

>

October 28, 2010

Lovely idea! I wonder if I can take young children along? Probably not. I

will try calling to find out.

> > >

> > > Maybe you and hubby could volunteer to work at one of the places near you

that serves dinner to the needy. You would avoid family without travel, and they

always need people to cook, serve, etc.

> > >

> > > Em

> > >

> > > Sent from my blueberry.

> > >

> >

>

October 28, 2010

I have an exaggerated startle reflex also; I think it may be due to complex

post-traumatic stress disorder, from being raised by my nada and never knowing

when I'd suddenly and unexpectedly get slapped, screamed at, humiliated/shamed,

beaten with a belt or otherwise punished.

Complex ptsd isn't an official diagnosis at this time, but (if I understand

correctly what I've read) it may be added to the DSM-V as a sub-category of

ptsd. While ptsd can result from just one (!) traumatic incident (car accident,

animal attack, natural disaster, being assaulted/raped) complex ptsd is more

severe and long-lasting. It results from years or even decades of chronic abuse

or negligence, such as people experience in war-torn countries, orphan children

left to survive on their own, people in prison or in a concentration camp for

long periods, children growing up in an abusive or negligent household, or

repeated school bullying year after year.

The fact that your nada *knows* that you startle easily and yet she deliberately

honks the horn near you so she can see you jump, is actually very cruel and

sadistic.

I would feel so very tempted to just haul off and punch someone in the face who

deliberately did that to me over and over and laughed at my pain, even after I'd

begged them to please not make loud noises near me. It actually hurts me to

startle hard because I also have a herniated neck disc. I'd be so tempted to

say, " Here, laugh at your broken jaw now, why don't you? Isn't that funny? "

Yes, I do have a problem with fantasizing violence against bullies. Just

something else I should deal with in therapy, I guess. So, please ignore my

fantasies about punching out the bullies, that's counterproductive.

-Annie

>

> Well said. Could not have put it better myself. I will also make sure

interactions occur around others when necessary. She has a whole public persona

thing which is quite charming.

>

> p.s. Don't EVER get stuck in a car with this person again! Been there, taken

that beating. She even honks the horn to scare me when I walk near the car and

laughs when I jump and tell her AGAIN not to do that. (I'm very easily startled

because of the early scaring and startling that was done for family's

entertainment. My husband tries to warn me when he's coming home. It's utterly

ridiculous. I have told him it's not his fault, not his problem, but he feels

bad when I jump at the sound of a voice or door opening.)

>

October 28, 2010

I have the really bad startle reflex too. OH well. I think dealing with

these people is somewhat addictive. I want to relive the trauma except this

time I'm in control (yeah right).

>

> Lovely idea! I wonder if I can take young children along? Probably not. I

> will try calling to find out.

>

> > > >

> > > > Maybe you and hubby could volunteer to work at one of the places near

> you that serves dinner to the needy. You would avoid family without travel,

> and they always need people to cook, serve, etc.

> > > >

> > > > Em

> > > >

> > > > Sent from my blueberry.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

October 28, 2010

Dear Group,

After living completely separate lives for many, many years my sister and I

were on the phone and she said how she had PTSD from our upbringing. She would

awake in the middle of the night lost and crying and not knowing why? It was

totally out of the blue. That was exactly what I experienced. Of course it was

PTSD.

My body reacts like an electric current was shocking my central nervous system

if there was a dramatic escalation of emotions around me. I have also observed

this in someone else and immediately recognized it for what it was. I did not

begin screaming out at the least startle reflex until I was assaulted by

stranger. Now my own immediate family know to try to warn me that they're coming

in the house, entering a room I'm in or just going to say something. Isn't that

ridiculous? It hurts me to be so startled but it also hurts me to have them

trying to be so careful about doing something so mundane.

Since we're talking about it does anyone know how to cure it?

For me it really gets worse when I am on more asthma medicine since they are all

stimulants- usually in October. I also scare the hell out of doctors who rush

into the examine room.

Sue

October 28, 2010

Hhhhmm,Annie...I used to have very violent,extremely detailed revenge fantasies

about abducting the (now grown) teenaged boys who raped me and also my sixth

grade teacher who molested me--taking them to a wilderness area where no one

could hear them scream and torturing them.I fessed up to my previous therapist

about them because I felt like some sort of psycho since I kept having them.I

was sure she'd think: Oh my god! I didn't realize you were *that* nuts!

Instead,she was totally non plussed and told me that revenge fantasies are

in fact perfectly normal when you have been badly and repeatedly abused.As long

as they remain *fantasies* and as long as you maintain intact reality

testing--you know it would be wrong to actually act on them.I never had any

intention of acting on them mainly because I wouldn't want to sink that low or

*be* someone who'd do those things but just thinking about it got the rage

flowing through me.My therapist said that having access to my rage via revenge

fantasy wasn't a bad thing at all and was in fact better than just feeling

helplessly victimized.She said it's also a way of processing abuse since that is

the function of fantasy: to assist us in processing our experiences and/or to

guide us in locating our needs.So fantasizing violence against bullies would be

your psyche's way of honoring your need to never be the prey of one again--or

fantasizing violence against bullies who prey on others would be your psyche's

expression of abhorrence of bullying in general.It's only a problem when someone

becomes obsessed with *acting* on their fantasies--otherwise,according to my

former therapist,it's normal and in fact much healthier to keep that rage

confined to the limits of fantasy where it is processable.

>

> I have an exaggerated startle reflex also; I think it may be due to complex

post-traumatic stress disorder, from being raised by my nada and never knowing

when I'd suddenly and unexpectedly get slapped, screamed at, humiliated/shamed,

beaten with a belt or otherwise punished.

>

> Complex ptsd isn't an official diagnosis at this time, but (if I understand

correctly what I've read) it may be added to the DSM-V as a sub-category of

ptsd. While ptsd can result from just one (!) traumatic incident (car accident,

animal attack, natural disaster, being assaulted/raped) complex ptsd is more

severe and long-lasting. It results from years or even decades of chronic abuse

or negligence, such as people experience in war-torn countries, orphan children

left to survive on their own, people in prison or in a concentration camp for

long periods, children growing up in an abusive or negligent household, or

repeated school bullying year after year.

>

> The fact that your nada *knows* that you startle easily and yet she

deliberately honks the horn near you so she can see you jump, is actually very

cruel and sadistic.

>

> I would feel so very tempted to just haul off and punch someone in the face

who deliberately did that to me over and over and laughed at my pain, even after

I'd begged them to please not make loud noises near me. It actually hurts me to

startle hard because I also have a herniated neck disc. I'd be so tempted to

say, " Here, laugh at your broken jaw now, why don't you? Isn't that funny? "

>

> Yes, I do have a problem with fantasizing violence against bullies. Just

something else I should deal with in therapy, I guess. So, please ignore my

fantasies about punching out the bullies, that's counterproductive.

>

> -Annie

October 28, 2010

Thanks, . Its good to know that fantasies of revenge against bullies

are relatively normal for someone who has been repeatedly abused, terrorized and

traumatized by a bpd parent. I too would feel horrified by actually acting out

in violent, revengeful ways, mainly because all my life I never wanted to be

anything like my nada. I think I have a great deal more ability to regulate my

emotions than she ever had, so there is little if any danger of me acting out my

fantasies. I appreciate you sharing your therapist's insights with me; that

makes me feel better.

-Annie

>

> Hhhhmm,Annie...I used to have very violent,extremely detailed revenge

fantasies about abducting the (now grown) teenaged boys who raped me and also my

sixth grade teacher who molested me--taking them to a wilderness area where no

one could hear them scream and torturing them.I fessed up to my previous

therapist about them because I felt like some sort of psycho since I kept having

them.I was sure she'd think: Oh my god! I didn't realize you were *that* nuts!

>

> Instead,she was totally non plussed and told me that revenge fantasies

are in fact perfectly normal when you have been badly and repeatedly abused.As

long as they remain *fantasies* and as long as you maintain intact reality