Re: Enjoying causing pain

[Guest guest]

Oh - I meant to add - there was an episode of 'Lie to me' with a mother and

daughter in a beauty pageant, the daughter felt good when others were upset.

This rung true to me - anyone else see it?

tre

>

> Hi

>

> Is this a BPD thing- If nada for whatever reason feels better by making me

upset or angry. It's almost like it feeds her or something. I wouldn't say she

gets pleasure from it like sadism, just more that she needs it. Needs to see me

in pain, or angry or upset.... Does this sound familiar to anyone?

>

> tre

>

[Guest guest]

Maybe it would depend on what is done that makes you upset or angry.  BPDs

accuse us of having feelings and thoughts that really belong to them, like

projection.  The book says it absolves them of responsibility for their own

actions and feeling shame for their own behaviors.  It's like transferring

their

own fleas onto us and I think it is not a conscious decision, just part of their

makeup and something they all do.  They do feel better about themselves for a

little while but their pain comes back and they do it again.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Mon, October 25, 2010 9:58:55 PM

Subject: Enjoying causing pain

 

Hi

Is this a BPD thing- If nada for whatever reason feels better by making me upset

or angry. It's almost like it feeds her or something. I wouldn't say she gets

pleasure from it like sadism, just more that she needs it. Needs to see me in

pain, or angry or upset.... Does this sound familiar to anyone?

tre

[Guest guest]

Seems to me that the need to cause others pain is the very definition of sadism,

which I believe can exist in a non-sexual context, although the origination of

the term " sadism " comes from the writings of the Marquis de Sade who described

deriving *sexual* pleasure from inflicting pain on others.

If I understand correctly what I've read, narcissistic pd individuals do seem to

have this need to inflict pain on others and derive pleasure from (or " feed off

of " ) others' pain.

Its also a power-play, like " got you last. " Narcissistic pd appears to involve

a sense of superiority and entitlement: if nada perceives that you've hurt her,

disrespected her, or wounded her ego in some way, she has the right to " get you

back. "

-Annie

>

> Hi

>

> Is this a BPD thing- If nada for whatever reason feels better by making me

upset or angry. It's almost like it feeds her or something. I wouldn't say she

gets pleasure from it like sadism, just more that she needs it. Needs to see me

in pain, or angry or upset.... Does this sound familiar to anyone?

>

> tre

>

[Guest guest]

Well then I'm screwed. She " perceives that you've hurt her, disrespected her, or

wounded her ego in some way " pretty much no matter what I say or do. Where I

shop, what coffee I drink, where I live, everything that I do is insulting to

her because it's different than her choices. sigh.

Thanks again for the insight.

tre

> >

> > Hi

> >

> > Is this a BPD thing- If nada for whatever reason feels better by making me

upset or angry. It's almost like it feeds her or something. I wouldn't say she

gets pleasure from it like sadism, just more that she needs it. Needs to see me

in pain, or angry or upset.... Does this sound familiar to anyone?

> >

> > tre

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'm reading the sociopath next door. It seems upsetting the other person

means they win. They can't have relationships with people but they can play

a game where they feel like they win. It's like their brain rewards them

with druglike chemicals.

>

>

> Hi

>

> Is this a BPD thing- If nada for whatever reason feels better by making me

> upset or angry. It's almost like it feeds her or something. I wouldn't say

> she gets pleasure from it like sadism, just more that she needs it. Needs to

> see me in pain, or angry or upset.... Does this sound familiar to anyone?

>

> tre

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think mine likes to see me in need b/c then it makes her feel needed.

Also, I think she just plain and simple likes drama.

>

> Hi

>

> Is this a BPD thing- If nada for whatever reason feels better by making me

upset or angry. It's almost like it feeds her or something. I wouldn't say she

gets pleasure from it like sadism, just more that she needs it. Needs to see me

in pain, or angry or upset.... Does this sound familiar to anyone?

>

> tre

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with Fiona wholeheartedly. Mine loves it when my life is going bad. It

does make her feel needed to a certain degree. But then it does always come back

to her.

 

 

Subject: Re: Enjoying causing pain

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Tuesday, October 26, 2010, 7:30 AM

 

I think mine likes to see me in need b/c then it makes her feel needed.

Also, I think she just plain and simple likes drama.

>

> Hi

>

> Is this a BPD thing- If nada for whatever reason feels better by making me

upset or angry. It's almost like it feeds her or something. I wouldn't say she

gets pleasure from it like sadism, just more that she needs it. Needs to see me

in pain, or angry or upset.... Does this sound familiar to anyone?

>

> tre

>

[Guest guest]

I hear you. My nada has, in my opinion, very plain, unimaginative,

Sears-catalog-level taste in interior decor, yet she thinks of herself as

having exquisite taste. Whenever we'd visit someone who had original and

creative personal taste, she'd compliment it to the person's face but denigrate

and criticize the decor all the way back home, and I understood that if I didn't

agree with nada she'd get all upset and insulted, so I'd just go into inanimate

object mode.

Now that I think about it, I don't think I have ever had a conversation with my

nada about things that have real meaning and are of a deeply personal nature,

like religion, politics, philosophy, love, or things that affect our daily

lives, like current events, history, science, or cultural things like the great

books, plays, films, etc. Our entire relationship was based on the most trivial

and superficial things in life: clothing, decor, hairstyles, shoes, shopping,

appearance (and how I was disappointing to her, and how I could do better at

this or that, like so and so's daughter.) Its amazing how shallow that is, now

that I think about it. Totally vapid and shallow.

If my nada didn't have the (apparently) overwhelming, barely-concealed need to

hurt me, I could feel sorry for her and might try to share things that I enjoy

with her, but, I can't take being around her now. I can't " not feel, not see,

not hear " the jabs and pokes she inflicts on me anymore. It always felt to me

like she was wanting to pick a fight with me and I would just go " zombie " or

slightly dissociate and not experience it. But I can't do that any longer; now

I do hear it and the repressed rage I feel makes me literally ill: a

conversation with nada results in a debilitating migraine or a

Meniere's-disease-like reaction now.

Anyway. I hope you come up with a strategy or means of dealing with your nada

that works for you. My strategy is No Contact.

You'll figure something out, I'm sure, sooner or later. You just have to accept

that although your nada either won't change or can't change, you get to choose

whether you want to be around that kind of behavior or not, and under what

conditions or rules.

That's your power as an adult: the power to just walk away from the sadistic

abuse. We didn't have that option as kids, but we sure do now.

-Annie

>

> Well then I'm screwed. She " perceives that you've hurt her, disrespected her,

or wounded her ego in some way " pretty much no matter what I say or do. Where I

shop, what coffee I drink, where I live, everything that I do is insulting to

her because it's different than her choices. sigh.

>

> Thanks again for the insight.

>

> tre

[Guest guest]

I see that as a somewhat different issue: nada enjoying the misfortune of

another, vs personally inflicting pain on another and enjoying that.

Nada relishing another's misfortune because it gives nada the opportunity to

step in and save the day is only slightly less reprehensible (to me) than

actively causing the pain or misfortune to begin with.

I mean, they're both awful, but one is more indirect and opportunistic, while

the other is an actively hostile attack intended to do damage.

And we continue to have relationships with these people because....?

-Annie

> >

> > Hi

> >

> > Is this a BPD thing- If nada for whatever reason feels better by making me

upset or angry. It's almost like it feeds her or something. I wouldn't say she

gets pleasure from it like sadism, just more that she needs it. Needs to see me

in pain, or angry or upset.... Does this sound familiar to anyone?

> >

> > tre

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Annie, I agree with you 100%, but what do you do with the love you may still

sometimes feel for her when your guard is down? I struggle with this when I

myself am in a mushy, idealistic, sentimental mood.

Amy

Re: Enjoying causing pain

I hear you. My nada has, in my opinion, very plain, unimaginative,

Sears-catalog-level taste in interior decor, yet she thinks of herself as

having exquisite taste. Whenever we'd visit someone who had original and

creative personal taste, she'd compliment it to the person's face but denigrate

and criticize the decor all the way back home, and I understood that if I didn't

agree with nada she'd get all upset and insulted, so I'd just go into inanimate

object mode.

Now that I think about it, I don't think I have ever had a conversation with my

nada about things that have real meaning and are of a deeply personal nature,

like religion, politics, philosophy, love, or things that affect our daily

lives, like current events, history, science, or cultural things like the great

books, plays, films, etc. Our entire relationship was based on the most trivial

and superficial things in life: clothing, decor, hairstyles, shoes, shopping,

appearance (and how I was disappointing to her, and how I could do better at

this or that, like so and so's daughter.) Its amazing how shallow that is, now

that I think about it. Totally vapid and shallow.

If my nada didn't have the (apparently) overwhelming, barely-concealed need to

hurt me, I could feel sorry for her and might try to share things that I enjoy

with her, but, I can't take being around her now. I can't " not feel, not see,

not hear " the jabs and pokes she inflicts on me anymore. It always felt to me

like she was wanting to pick a fight with me and I would just go " zombie " or

slightly dissociate and not experience it. But I can't do that any longer; now

I do hear it and the repressed rage I feel makes me literally ill: a

conversation with nada results in a debilitating migraine or a

Meniere's-disease-like reaction now.

Anyway. I hope you come up with a strategy or means of dealing with your nada

that works for you. My strategy is No Contact.

You'll figure something out, I'm sure, sooner or later. You just have to accept

that although your nada either won't change or can't change, you get to choose

whether you want to be around that kind of behavior or not, and under what

conditions or rules.

That's your power as an adult: the power to just walk away from the sadistic

abuse. We didn't have that option as kids, but we sure do now.

-Annie

>

> Well then I'm screwed. She " perceives that you've hurt her, disrespected her,

or wounded her ego in some way " pretty much no matter what I say or do. Where I

shop, what coffee I drink, where I live, everything that I do is insulting to

her because it's different than her choices. sigh.

>

> Thanks again for the insight.

>

> tre

[Guest guest]

I pull out my diary/journal and read about all the past incidents of abuse and

seemingly sincere apologies, and giving in to my sense of mushy sentimentality

that only resulted in yet more abusive incidents and more apologies.

And I remind myself that when I talk to nada on the phone, I get a migraine

afterward and I can't afford to be " down " and unable to work for a half-day or

more.

I ground myself in reality that way. Or I talk to my Sister, who does still

maintain a very limited contact with our nada but with the realization that nada

is a toxic individual and can't really change. Sister validates my memories and

I validate hers, we are each other's reality check.

-Annie

> >

> > Well then I'm screwed. She " perceives that you've hurt her, disrespected

her, or wounded her ego in some way " pretty much no matter what I say or do.

Where I shop, what coffee I drink, where I live, everything that I do is

insulting to her because it's different than her choices. sigh.

> >

> > Thanks again for the insight.

> >

> > tre

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

in my case, i was the target of my mom. nobody else...so i am in this alone,

although my husband can see what i'm talking about. it's hard to be me against

the world, when i have to explain away why i am distant with such a wonderful

lady (everybody else thinks she is so sweet and caring, loving)...but the abuse

was a long time ago...and people are confused by my lack of contact with her. I

am screwed. I always say it...only I know the truth.

Amy

Re: Enjoying causing pain

I pull out my diary/journal and read about all the past incidents of abuse and

seemingly sincere apologies, and giving in to my sense of mushy sentimentality

that only resulted in yet more abusive incidents and more apologies.

And I remind myself that when I talk to nada on the phone, I get a migraine

afterward and I can't afford to be " down " and unable to work for a half-day or

more.

I ground myself in reality that way. Or I talk to my Sister, who does still

maintain a very limited contact with our nada but with the realization that nada

is a toxic individual and can't really change. Sister validates my memories and

I validate hers, we are each other's reality check.

-Annie

> >

> > Well then I'm screwed. She " perceives that you've hurt her, disrespected

her, or wounded her ego in some way " pretty much no matter what I say or do.

Where I shop, what coffee I drink, where I live, everything that I do is

insulting to her because it's different than her choices. sigh.

> >

> > Thanks again for the insight.

> >

> > tre

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Your own memories can be your validation, it really helps to write them all down

as far back as you can remember, and to keep a current diary or journal of what

happens when you interact with your nada. It truly does help.

-Annie

>

> in my case, i was the target of my mom. nobody else...so i am in this alone,

although my husband can see what i'm talking about. it's hard to be me against

the world, when i have to explain away why i am distant with such a wonderful

lady (everybody else thinks she is so sweet and caring, loving)...but the abuse

was a long time ago...and people are confused by my lack of contact with her. I

am screwed. I always say it...only I know the truth.

> Amy

[Guest guest]

thanks annie...i will start to write these things down...to validate myself.

amy

Re: Enjoying causing pain

Your own memories can be your validation, it really helps to write them all down

as far back as you can remember, and to keep a current diary or journal of what

happens when you interact with your nada. It truly does help.

-Annie

>

> in my case, i was the target of my mom. nobody else...so i am in this alone,

although my husband can see what i'm talking about. it's hard to be me against

the world, when i have to explain away why i am distant with such a wonderful

lady (everybody else thinks she is so sweet and caring, loving)...but the abuse

was a long time ago...and people are confused by my lack of contact with her. I

am screwed. I always say it...only I know the truth.

> Amy

[Guest guest]

Annie

You are lucky. All my Nada will talk about is the weather. I fought and yearned

for a more meaningful relationship. The hostility and venom was stunning from

her. Oh yea, we can talk about my mistakes because everything is my fault. But

don't dare hold her accountable. And we are allowed to talk about her digestive

problems...

 

Subject: Re: Re: Enjoying causing pain

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Tuesday, October 26, 2010, 11:04 AM

 

Annie, I agree with you 100%, but what do you do with the love you may still

sometimes feel for her when your guard is down? I struggle with this when I

myself am in a mushy, idealistic, sentimental mood.

Amy

Re: Enjoying causing pain

I hear you. My nada has, in my opinion, very plain, unimaginative,

Sears-catalog-level taste in interior decor, yet she thinks of herself as having

exquisite taste. Whenever we'd visit someone who had original and creative

personal taste, she'd compliment it to the person's face but denigrate and

criticize the decor all the way back home, and I understood that if I didn't

agree with nada she'd get all upset and insulted, so I'd just go into inanimate

object mode.

Now that I think about it, I don't think I have ever had a conversation with my

nada about things that have real meaning and are of a deeply personal nature,

like religion, politics, philosophy, love, or things that affect our daily

lives, like current events, history, science, or cultural things like the great

books, plays, films, etc. Our entire relationship was based on the most trivial

and superficial things in life: clothing, decor, hairstyles, shoes, shopping,

appearance (and how I was disappointing to her, and how I could do better at

this or that, like so and so's daughter.) Its amazing how shallow that is, now

that I think about it. Totally vapid and shallow.

If my nada didn't have the (apparently) overwhelming, barely-concealed need to

hurt me, I could feel sorry for her and might try to share things that I enjoy

with her, but, I can't take being around her now. I can't " not feel, not see,

not hear " the jabs and pokes she inflicts on me anymore. It always felt to me

like she was wanting to pick a fight with me and I would just go " zombie " or

slightly dissociate and not experience it. But I can't do that any longer; now I

do hear it and the repressed rage I feel makes me literally ill: a conversation

with nada results in a debilitating migraine or a Meniere's-disease-like

reaction now.

Anyway. I hope you come up with a strategy or means of dealing with your nada

that works for you. My strategy is No Contact.

You'll figure something out, I'm sure, sooner or later. You just have to accept

that although your nada either won't change or can't change, you get to choose

whether you want to be around that kind of behavior or not, and under what

conditions or rules.

That's your power as an adult: the power to just walk away from the sadistic

abuse. We didn't have that option as kids, but we sure do now.

-Annie

>

> Well then I'm screwed. She " perceives that you've hurt her, disrespected her,

or wounded her ego in some way " pretty much no matter what I say or do. Where I

shop, what coffee I drink, where I live, everything that I do is insulting to

her because it's different than her choices. sigh.

>

> Thanks again for the insight.

>

> tre

[Guest guest]

yeah, talking about shoes and hair is so engaging, lol! I guess that is more

endurable than talking about the weather or about what 's wrong with me.

-Annie

>

> Annie

> You are lucky. All my Nada will talk about is the weather. I fought and

yearned for a more meaningful relationship. The hostility and venom was stunning

from her. Oh yea, we can talk about my mistakes because everything is my fault.

But don't dare hold her accountable. And we are allowed to talk about her

digestive problems...

>

>

>

>  

[Guest guest]

i too yearned for more talking about important stuff...not just her minor health

complaints. it's just something i will never have with my mom.

Re: Enjoying causing pain

I hear you. My nada has, in my opinion, very plain, unimaginative,

Sears-catalog-level taste in interior decor, yet she thinks of herself as having

exquisite taste. Whenever we'd visit someone who had original and creative

personal taste, she'd compliment it to the person's face but denigrate and

criticize the decor all the way back home, and I understood that if I didn't

agree with nada she'd get all upset and insulted, so I'd just go into inanimate

object mode.

Now that I think about it, I don't think I have ever had a conversation with my

nada about things that have real meaning and are of a deeply personal nature,

like religion, politics, philosophy, love, or things that affect our daily

lives, like current events, history, science, or cultural things like the great

books, plays, films, etc. Our entire relationship was based on the most trivial

and superficial things in life: clothing, decor, hairstyles, shoes, shopping,

appearance (and how I was disappointing to her, and how I could do better at

this or that, like so and so's daughter.) Its amazing how shallow that is, now

that I think about it. Totally vapid and shallow.

If my nada didn't have the (apparently) overwhelming, barely-concealed need to

hurt me, I could feel sorry for her and might try to share things that I enjoy

with her, but, I can't take being around her now. I can't " not feel, not see,

not hear " the jabs and pokes she inflicts on me anymore. It always felt to me

like she was wanting to pick a fight with me and I would just go " zombie " or

slightly dissociate and not experience it. But I can't do that any longer; now I

do hear it and the repressed rage I feel makes me literally ill: a conversation

with nada results in a debilitating migraine or a Meniere's-disease-like

reaction now.

Anyway. I hope you come up with a strategy or means of dealing with your nada

that works for you. My strategy is No Contact.

You'll figure something out, I'm sure, sooner or later. You just have to accept

that although your nada either won't change or can't change, you get to choose

whether you want to be around that kind of behavior or not, and under what

conditions or rules.

That's your power as an adult: the power to just walk away from the sadistic

abuse. We didn't have that option as kids, but we sure do now.

-Annie

>

> Well then I'm screwed. She " perceives that you've hurt her, disrespected her,

or wounded her ego in some way " pretty much no matter what I say or do. Where I

shop, what coffee I drink, where I live, everything that I do is insulting to

her because it's different than her choices. sigh.

>

> Thanks again for the insight.

>

> tre

[Guest guest]

Hi

I'm lumping my responses into one post - but thanks to everyone who responded.

I was talking about direct comments meant to cause pain. I have experiences

even when I told her straight out that I really didn't want to talk about

something because it was too painful, and it seemed to egg her on, she pushed

until I burst out screaming and crying. Then she seemed sated. The conversation

wouldn't end until I fell apart. So in that case, I agree with the sociopath

comment, the druglike rewards from the brain because she 'won'; as well as the

idea that my acting out pain somehow made her internal pain bearable, like I

acted it out for her and made her feel better for a short while.

However she also enjoys watching me in pain just in general. The worse my news

is, the better she feels. I mostly just don't tell her about anything bad.

tre

[Guest guest]

I don't feel love anymore. I haven't for years. I love my dad, stepmom, partner,

daughter. I love my pets. I am capable of love. I can't find it in my heart for

my 'mother'. I feel horrible about this, I think it has to be in there

somewhere. But there's nothing.

Though - then - why indeed do I continue contact?

I went NC from age 18-22. It helped a LOT. She changed her behavior

significantly, I've never regretted that decision. I started contact again

because frankly, NC hurt too. It felt wrong.

Since starting contact again I mostly lived far away and LC was easy. I have

grown up a LOT in the decades since, and thought I had a handle on this. But now

we live close again and there's a grandchild in the picture, so I guess that's

why it's all coming up again.

I kind of feel like it's a toss up - which one takes the least effort. I guess

I'm on here questioning. I think NC is a great way to go if you can. Don't know

which way I'll go from here. She is capable of amending her behavior if she

thinks she has to. It's so exhausting to always be dealing with this.

> >

> > Well then I'm screwed. She " perceives that you've hurt her, disrespected

her, or wounded her ego in some way " pretty much no matter what I say or do.

Where I shop, what coffee I drink, where I live, everything that I do is

insulting to her because it's different than her choices. sigh.

> >

> > Thanks again for the insight.

> >

> > tre

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

EXHAUSTING!

amy

Re: Enjoying causing pain

I don't feel love anymore. I haven't for years. I love my dad, stepmom, partner,

daughter. I love my pets. I am capable of love. I can't find it in my heart for

my 'mother'. I feel horrible about this, I think it has to be in there

somewhere. But there's nothing.

Though - then - why indeed do I continue contact?

I went NC from age 18-22. It helped a LOT. She changed her behavior

significantly, I've never regretted that decision. I started contact again

because frankly, NC hurt too. It felt wrong.

Since starting contact again I mostly lived far away and LC was easy. I have

grown up a LOT in the decades since, and thought I had a handle on this. But now

we live close again and there's a grandchild in the picture, so I guess that's

why it's all coming up again.

I kind of feel like it's a toss up - which one takes the least effort. I guess

I'm on here questioning. I think NC is a great way to go if you can. Don't know

which way I'll go from here. She is capable of amending her behavior if she

thinks she has to. It's so exhausting to always be dealing with this.

> >

> > Well then I'm screwed. She " perceives that you've hurt her, disrespected

her, or wounded her ego in some way " pretty much no matter what I say or do.

Where I shop, what coffee I drink, where I live, everything that I do is

insulting to her because it's different than her choices. sigh.

> >

> > Thanks again for the insight.

> >

> > tre

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes Annie. That is the question that I need to answer! I agree with your

distinctions too. Suffice to say that mine is just downright NEGATIVE about

EVERYTHING. I don't even draw any differences anymore but yet keep going back. I

am reading so many books about codependency and what I have taken from it is

that we codependents, no matter how much we want to change and be peaceful, we

are subconsciously drawn back because we sense and rightly so, know that our

childhood was lacking therefore we have this compulsion to keep replaying the

dynamics so that we can " fix " it. But alas, we never can. We are the biggest

hinderance to our own recovery....Ugh..

 

Subject: Re: Enjoying causing pain

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Tuesday, October 26, 2010, 11:02 AM

 

I see that as a somewhat different issue: nada enjoying the misfortune of

another, vs personally inflicting pain on another and enjoying that.

Nada relishing another's misfortune because it gives nada the opportunity to

step in and save the day is only slightly less reprehensible (to me) than

actively causing the pain or misfortune to begin with.

I mean, they're both awful, but one is more indirect and opportunistic, while

the other is an actively hostile attack intended to do damage.

And we continue to have relationships with these people because....?

-Annie

> >

> > Hi

> >

> > Is this a BPD thing- If nada for whatever reason feels better by making me

upset or angry. It's almost like it feeds her or something. I wouldn't say she

gets pleasure from it like sadism, just more that she needs it. Needs to see me

in pain, or angry or upset.... Does this sound familiar to anyone?

> >

> > tre

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, that really is sadistic to push and push someone to discuss a painful

subject until she breaks down. Talk about boundary violations!

I hope that if she attempts to do that to you again, you will be able to be more

" in the moment " and calmly and firmly be able to say something like, " That topic

is not up for discussion, mother. What else would you like to talk about? " and

if she persists, say in a neutral, calm tone something like, " It seems you only

want to discuss that topic now, so I'll talk to you some other time. 'Bye. "

Its amazing how hard it is to wrap our minds around the concept " I actually can

say something like that to my mother, the person who has trained me from birth

to be obedient, to defer to her and even to fear her! " But it really is that

easy to maintain a boundary, if you're willing to endure the consequences, such

as repeated attempts at calling you back. If that happens, put the phone on

" no ring " and when you review the messages on the answering machine, delete the

ones from her without listening to them.

You can call her back in a few days if you feel like it. Or not.

Its a little harder when you're engaged in a face to face visit. That's why

visits need to be strategized so that you are able to leave quickly and easily

if you have to, ie, whenever possible meet on neutral ground like a restaurant

or a mall. Never park so that your car is trapped in a driveway by other cars

and don't use valet parking, always park where your car is directly accessible

to you and you can pull away immediately.

If meeting at a neutral location is not possible, meet at her home. Its much

easier for you to leave her home that it would be to attempt to force her to

leave your home. Your home is your safe place, your retreat. No nadas (or

fadas or badas or sadas) allowed.

Anyway, yes, we've been trained to endure bullying behavior, but as adults we

have the power to remove ourselves from a bullying encounter.

Its kind of like Dorothy in Oz finally realizing that she always had the power

to return herself home whenever she wanted to, she only had to believe in the

power of the ruby slippers and invoke it. We have the ability to protect

ourselves from garden-variety parental bullying if only we believe that we have

the right to do so, and the power to do so.

Click those heels together next time, " Dorothy. " There's no place like home.

-Annie

>

> Hi

>

> I'm lumping my responses into one post - but thanks to everyone who

responded.

>

> I was talking about direct comments meant to cause pain. I have experiences

even when I told her straight out that I really didn't want to talk about

something because it was too painful, and it seemed to egg her on, she pushed

until I burst out screaming and crying. Then she seemed sated. The conversation

wouldn't end until I fell apart. So in that case, I agree with the sociopath

comment, the druglike rewards from the brain because she 'won'; as well as the

idea that my acting out pain somehow made her internal pain bearable, like I

acted it out for her and made her feel better for a short while.

>

> However she also enjoys watching me in pain just in general. The worse my news

is, the better she feels. I mostly just don't tell her about anything bad.

>

> tre

>

[Guest guest]

I buy that as one of the reasons we keep going back for more abuse: we're trying

to " fix " the problem. That totally makes sense to me; its something I hadn't

considered very much before. Thanks for sharing that insight, codependency is

something I'd like to read more about too.

-Annie

>

> Yes Annie. That is the question that I need to answer! I agree with your

distinctions too. Suffice to say that mine is just downright NEGATIVE about

EVERYTHING. I don't even draw any differences anymore but yet keep going back. I

am reading so many books about codependency and what I have taken from it is

that we codependents, no matter how much we want to change and be peaceful, we

are subconsciously drawn back because we sense and rightly so, know that our

childhood was lacking therefore we have this compulsion to keep replaying the

dynamics so that we can " fix " it. But alas, we never can. We are the biggest

hinderance to our own recovery....Ugh..

>

>

>  

[Guest guest]

Annie

I have been attending the codependency group and the step work group meetings.

I am finding as I attend more regularly that it extremely helpful as I can't

afford a private therapist. It is interesting because just listening to others

there something will be said that I haven't realized yet. I thought I knew all

my issues. Pia Mellody's books, IMO, are the best. I get alot out of them.

Codependency comes from trying to survive a dysfunctional childhood and the

coping mechanisms that follow us into adulthood. Growing up with Nadas is

extremely dysfunctional.  And believe me, it can't be denied away but ONLY get

worse. I don't know why but I can attest to that.

The group really helps in the control areas and letting go of the

responsibility of others...i.e. trying to make Nadas happy etc. And that we have

a right and a duty to be happy and live to our fullest potential.

 

Felicia Ward CPA

  " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong

man

stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit

belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust

and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and

again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does

actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great

devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end

the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he

fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and

timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat. "

 

Subject: Re: Enjoying causing pain

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Tuesday, October 26, 2010, 2:27 PM

 

I buy that as one of the reasons we keep going back for more abuse: we're trying

to " fix " the problem. That totally makes sense to me; its something I hadn't

considered very much before. Thanks for sharing that insight, codependency is

something I'd like to read more about too.

-Annie

>

> Yes Annie. That is the question that I need to answer! I agree with your

distinctions too. Suffice to say that mine is just downright NEGATIVE about

EVERYTHING. I don't even draw any differences anymore but yet keep going back. I

am reading so many books about codependency and what I have taken from it is

that we codependents, no matter how much we want to change and be peaceful, we

are subconsciously drawn back because we sense and rightly so, know that our

childhood was lacking therefore we have this compulsion to keep replaying the

dynamics so that we can " fix " it. But alas, we never can. We are the biggest

hinderance to our own recovery....Ugh..

>

>

>  

[Guest guest]

Isn't that part of the borderline persona too, Tre?  My husband used to follow

me around the house screaming at me.  If I shut a door he opened it.  He would

go on and on and on long after I shut up.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Tue, October 26, 2010 1:50:17 PM

Subject: Re: Enjoying causing pain

 

Hi

I'm lumping my responses into one post - but thanks to everyone who responded.

I was talking about direct comments meant to cause pain. I have experiences even

when I told her straight out that I really didn't want to talk about something

because it was too painful, and it seemed to egg her on, she pushed until I

burst out screaming and crying. Then she seemed sated. The conversation wouldn't

end until I fell apart. So in that case, I agree with the sociopath comment, the

druglike rewards from the brain because she 'won'; as well as the idea that my

acting out pain somehow made her internal pain bearable, like I acted it out for

her and made her feel better for a short while.

However she also enjoys watching me in pain just in general. The worse my news

is, the better she feels. I mostly just don't tell her about anything bad.

tre