Re: verbal abuse

[Guest guest]

Casey, I'd say your boyfriend is a good egg! My ex-bf who is not such a good

egg still gave me some validation when he said part of why he didn't want to get

serious with me was because my family scared him. I think that emotional and

verbal abuse take their toll and it is harder to explain and justify that toll

to others (maybe even ourselves?) because it is very subjective. I don't know

if you've ever read the Highly Sensitive Person book by Elain Aron? Some people

are just born more sensitive in all ways and will be more affected by negative

events.

I struggle too with why am I so effed up? It freaks me out sometimes that in

terms of emotional impact I do belong on this list but in terms of my stories

there are very few that truly shock anybody. That question of why was I so

fragile? Or look at so-and-so who went through worse but still managed to marry

and have kids. I guess working to accept this is who we are and how it's been

in itself is a big part of healing.

>

> I feel like I was way too sensitive as a kid. My nada really only verbally

abused me, even that wasn't always that bad, it was more like being raised by a

little kid. She would tease me and scare me like she was an older sister. But I

took the weird things she told me SERIOUSLY. I was horrified of boogie-men,

ghosts of my great-grandmother, evil apemen, etc. I teased my own brother this

way and he didn't get PTSD from it! Somehow it coming from my mother just messed

me up.

>

> Anyway I mentioned to my bf the other day wondering how could I get so messed

up from that, she wasn't as bad as some of our friends parents (for example, I

have a friend who was raped by her own father, but she managed to get away and

is much stronger emotionally now than I am IMO) but somehow she gave me all

these mental disorders, and why was I such a sensitive little kid? There must

have been something wrong with me to begin with that her just SAYING THINGS to

me fucked me up for life. And he said, " I don't know, I was 30 when I met you're

mother and I think she's emotionally scarred ME. "

>

> For some reason this made me laugh, I thought I'd share it.

>

> Casey

>

[Guest guest]

I am not sure you were " so sensitive " , I feel like it could be an unconscious

way of protecting your mother somewhat, and still feeling like it had something

to do with you, your nature.

It is hard to know what is going inside people's minds. To know how really

truely happy and they are, and how abuse affected them.

I think it is a sign of STRENGTH to face our past, and look at it with open

eyes. You might feel more sensitive because you chose to look at these painful

things rather than escaping or repressing.

And everyone copes and heal(or not) in different ways. I am glad I am dealing

with this now, rather than in 20 or 30 years.

I thought my brother for example was less afflicted by my BP Mother, but I have

known for a long long time that he was in denial about her.

He lied, as a kid, about how often she would lash onto us, which was every day.

I will never forget that.

But he always seemed less sensitive than me, and seemed more pragmatic, less

afected by emotions.

A couple years ago, he met this lovely girl and they moved in together.

She has a lot of issues, it turns out. And I am now wondering if she doesn't

have BP.

So go ahead, be sensitive but don't forget how STRONG you are too.

And listen to outside perspectives. Your BF's comment is very insightful.

[Guest guest]

Yes, he sure is, I so happy to have found him. I have had a couple bfs break up

with me or not get serious with me for that same reason, that my family was just

too much, and that since my family didn't support me they didn't want to be my

" only support " . I changed that by developing a " family " of friends that I get

support from, but I know it is still hard to date me, I am not NC with my FOO

and anyone who becomes my family has to deal somewhat with them, even if it's

just me being upset over a phone call from nada. (when I'm ignoring my nada my

bf deletes my emails and voice mails from her so I don't have to listen/read

anything.) Also I can't deal with fights at all, again being sensitive. I'm so

happy I found someone that never ever raises his voice, is completely

drama-free, loves animals as much as me, and is totally cool with the fact that

I am nowhere near (or might never be) ready to have kids.

I will look into the book, I am a huge reader and love reading the books

suggested by the users on this board! " Highly Sensitive Person " sounds like an

apt description of me, lol

Casey

> >

> > I feel like I was way too sensitive as a kid. My nada really only verbally

abused me, even that wasn't always that bad, it was more like being raised by a

little kid. She would tease me and scare me like she was an older sister. But I

took the weird things she told me SERIOUSLY. I was horrified of boogie-men,

ghosts of my great-grandmother, evil apemen, etc. I teased my own brother this

way and he didn't get PTSD from it! Somehow it coming from my mother just messed

me up.

> >

> > Anyway I mentioned to my bf the other day wondering how could I get so

messed up from that, she wasn't as bad as some of our friends parents (for

example, I have a friend who was raped by her own father, but she managed to get

away and is much stronger emotionally now than I am IMO) but somehow she gave me

all these mental disorders, and why was I such a sensitive little kid? There

must have been something wrong with me to begin with that her just SAYING THINGS

to me fucked me up for life. And he said, " I don't know, I was 30 when I met

you're mother and I think she's emotionally scarred ME. "

> >

> > For some reason this made me laugh, I thought I'd share it.

> >

> > Casey

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Casey,

Please give yourself a little more credit. Being emotionally

scarred by a mother with BPD is not an indication that anything

was wrong with you. Verbal/emotional abuse on a continuing and

constant basis is not a small thing. It can be much more

destructive to a child than other forms of abuse that horrify

people more. When a child gets beaten or raped, there is often

obvious evidence of the abuse and everyone understands that

abuse occurred and wants to stop it. When a child is verbally

and emotionally abused, people often don't do anything about it

and it just continues on and on with no intervention. There's no

physical evidence of abuse and even if people see and hear it

happening, they often decide that it is none of their business

and let it happen. Commonly, no one comforts the child or offers

to help. Children generally don't understand that they're being

abused in such situations and thus come to think that it is

their own fault that their parents treat them so horribly. It

sounds like you're still doing that.

Being teased by another child is a different matter than having

the same things said to you by an important authority figure. A

child's relationship with her mother should not be the same as

her relations with other children. Mothers are supposed to be

comforting figures of authority, not uncontrolled bullies.

Your boyfriend sounds like he has the right idea.

At 06:07 PM 11/05/2010 slingshot2hell wrote:

>I feel like I was way too sensitive as a kid. My nada really

>only verbally abused me, even that wasn't always that bad, it

>was more like being raised by a little kid. She would tease me

>and scare me like she was an older sister. But I took the weird

>things she told me SERIOUSLY. I was horrified of boogie-men,

>ghosts of my great-grandmother, evil apemen, etc. I teased my

>own brother this way and he didn't get PTSD from it! Somehow it

>coming from my mother just messed me up.

>

>Anyway I mentioned to my bf the other day wondering how could I

>get so messed up from that, she wasn't as bad as some of our

>friends parents (for example, I have a friend who was raped by

>her own father, but she managed to get away and is much

>stronger emotionally now than I am IMO) but somehow she gave me

>all these mental disorders, and why was I such a sensitive

>little kid? There must have been something wrong with me to

>begin with that her just SAYING THINGS to me fucked me up for

>life. And he said, " I don't know, I was 30 when I met you're

>mother and I think she's emotionally scarred ME. "

>

>For some reason this made me laugh, I thought I'd share it.

>

>Casey

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Your brother sounds like mine! I don't think mine is totally in denial, he

admits our nada is crazy, but he doesn't think it was as bad as I think. He is

also dating someone with a lot of issues, she is on anti-psychotics tho and I

think it helps. I have thought before that he somehow turned out way better, but

my dad has pointed out to me that he seems to be too sensitive in a lot of ways

as well. Also, he hasn't been to therapy, so his " shit " isn't diagnosed. Still,

he was not suicidal as a teenager, etc. But I'm not sure which is worse, BEING

mentally ill or DATING/MARRYING someone mentally ill. lol

I guess I do sort of unconsciously defend my nada, I often think that her being

crazy is totally reasonable knowing how awfully her parents treated her. It

seems so unreasonable sometimes that I feel so traumatized up over what seem

like silly things.

I will try to be strong, thank you.

Casey

>

>

> I am not sure you were " so sensitive " , I feel like it could be an unconscious

way of protecting your mother somewhat, and still feeling like it had something

to do with you, your nature.

>

> It is hard to know what is going inside people's minds. To know how really

truely happy and they are, and how abuse affected them.

> I think it is a sign of STRENGTH to face our past, and look at it with open

eyes. You might feel more sensitive because you chose to look at these painful

things rather than escaping or repressing.

>

> And everyone copes and heal(or not) in different ways. I am glad I am dealing

with this now, rather than in 20 or 30 years.

>

> I thought my brother for example was less afflicted by my BP Mother, but I

have known for a long long time that he was in denial about her.

> He lied, as a kid, about how often she would lash onto us, which was every

day. I will never forget that.

>

> But he always seemed less sensitive than me, and seemed more pragmatic, less

afected by emotions.

> A couple years ago, he met this lovely girl and they moved in together.

> She has a lot of issues, it turns out. And I am now wondering if she doesn't

have BP.

>

> So go ahead, be sensitive but don't forget how STRONG you are too.

> And listen to outside perspectives. Your BF's comment is very insightful.

>

[Guest guest]

I agree, your boyfriend sounds like a real jewel of a guy, and very supportive!

And I agree that emotional abuse perpetrated by a parent against a child is just

as toxic, scarring and damaging as other kinds of abuse. In fact, the worst and

most damaging component of physical abuse or physical neglect is the emotional

abuse: the terror, the feeling of helplessness, the feeling that you somehow

deserve it, the deep sense of shame, the destruction of trust, the destruction

of the child's sense of self-worth down to less than zero.

Deliberately terrorizing her tiny child with frightening stories (probably in

some cases because she thought it was " funny " ) is actually extremely sadistic.

Any parent who would do that is seriously mentally ill. That's mental cruelty,

a form of torture that its not OK to do to prisoners of war, for God's sake.

Bruises fade, but the scars of emotional/mental abuse, of emotional and physical

neglect, of sexual abuse and other forms of exploitation and mistreatment can be

permanent.

Its never " just " emotional abuse. And from what I've read in earlier threads

here (info research by , I think) more and more US states are including

" emotional abuse " in what they consider to be " child abuse " . Hopefully being

able to demonstrate that emotional abuse has occurred or is ongoing will make it

easier for the mentally healthy parent to get full custody of their kids during

a divorce proceeding and the kids will benefit from having only supervised

visitation (if any) with a mentally ill, emotionally abusive parent.

-Annie

>

> I feel like I was way too sensitive as a kid. My nada really only verbally

abused me, even that wasn't always that bad, it was more like being raised by a

little kid. She would tease me and scare me like she was an older sister. But I

took the weird things she told me SERIOUSLY. I was horrified of boogie-men,

ghosts of my great-grandmother, evil apemen, etc. I teased my own brother this

way and he didn't get PTSD from it! Somehow it coming from my mother just messed

me up.

>

> Anyway I mentioned to my bf the other day wondering how could I get so messed

up from that, she wasn't as bad as some of our friends parents (for example, I

have a friend who was raped by her own father, but she managed to get away and

is much stronger emotionally now than I am IMO) but somehow she gave me all

these mental disorders, and why was I such a sensitive little kid? There must

have been something wrong with me to begin with that her just SAYING THINGS to

me fucked me up for life. And he said, " I don't know, I was 30 when I met you're

mother and I think she's emotionally scarred ME. "

>

> For some reason this made me laugh, I thought I'd share it.

>

> Casey

>

[Guest guest]

In many ways, verbal abuse can have the most pervasive and lasting effect. The

more normal behavior mixed in makes it confusing as well and tempts you to blame

yourself even more. Did you know, though, that many people who were severely,

horribly abused physically or sexually think it's their fault somehow or to some

extent?

Also, various developmental factors like age, gender and environmental issues or

stresses can increase the impact of abuse significantly. For example, your

family may have improved some by the time your brother came along, he may have

been favored somewhat, or he may have been shielded by you as well. My sister

and I have noticed that our home life was diffused a bit when we were both

around as opposed to times one of us was out of town or off to school. Even if

you are a more sensitive person, this is a strength, not a weakness. Think of

all the wonderful things about you that your sensitivity gives you!

(Compassion, empathy, insight, etc?) You may have special artistic or

interpersonal gifts as well.

I have experienced abuse in various ways - physically, sexually, verbally and

spiritually. The worst effects for me come from the words because they were

planted in my mind like programming and cannot be overcome by logic. Those

words are part of who I am - even though I know they are ridiculous. My nada

did transchanneling and I was the guide to make sure she didn't die. It was a

cult family with crazy freaky stuff going on. I spent hours in the company of

the dead people talking through her body like something straight out of " The

Exorcist. "

The psychology of a person is a delicate thing. Being scared by your own mother

is horribly traumatic. This is the person you needed more than anyone else in

the world, but you could not trust her.

My mother was like a child, too. She seemed to find scaring me so entertaining.

I reacted very well for her becuase I had never developed a secure foundation

emotionally. I would become completely hysterical when she set up frightening

scenarios for entertainment. This is not a harmless, silly thing.

Interestingly, some of the hardest things for me to overcome have been

" harmless " little comments from her or step-fada. For example, it was said that

I was " a genius at book smarts but too dumb to get out of the rain " . In other

words - short on common sense. That is such a mild comment with some positive

built in. It pales in comparison to the " real " abuse I suffered. Yet, I still

believe this about myself and have " dedicated " my life to proving this comment

wrong. Actually quit school and started a tree service business to prove I can

do " real " work and survive with common sense. Just now going back for my

master's after realizing this. Duh?

>

> I feel like I was way too sensitive as a kid. My nada really only verbally

abused me, even that wasn't always that bad, it was more like being raised by a

little kid. She would tease me and scare me like she was an older sister. But I

took the weird things she told me SERIOUSLY. I was horrified of boogie-men,

ghosts of my great-grandmother, evil apemen, etc. I teased my own brother this

way and he didn't get PTSD from it! Somehow it coming from my mother just messed

me up.

>

> Anyway I mentioned to my bf the other day wondering how could I get so messed

up from that, she wasn't as bad as some of our friends parents (for example, I

have a friend who was raped by her own father, but she managed to get away and

is much stronger emotionally now than I am IMO) but somehow she gave me all

these mental disorders, and why was I such a sensitive little kid? There must

have been something wrong with me to begin with that her just SAYING THINGS to

me fucked me up for life. And he said, " I don't know, I was 30 when I met you're

mother and I think she's emotionally scarred ME. "

>

> For some reason this made me laugh, I thought I'd share it.

>

> Casey

>

[Guest guest]

slingshot2hell wrote:

" I feel like I was way too sensitive as a kid. My nada really only verbally

abused me, even that wasn't always that bad.... There must have been something

wrong with me to begin with that her just SAYING THINGS to me fucked me up for

life. "

You have touched on a huge thing here. I think some of us feel that we have " no

right to complain " about our childhoods because, hey, so-and-so was molested or

so-and-so got hit with a belt. And we only got mocked and yelled at. For years,

I've felt ridiculous trying to explain to people that the reason I am so

screwed-up today, the reason I never had kids (and knew I wouldn't be

emotionally up to the task, sadly) is that I was mocked and yelled at and

scared a lot as a child. It seems so insignificant! Sticks and stones! Yet

somehow, I don't know how, it CAN fuck us up. Maybe because it happens when we

are too young to have ANY self-esteem to counteract it, and our entire sense of

self then is built on mockery and yelling and scare tactics. I feel like I have

65 percent of a personality instead of 100 percent because of this

oversensitivity, which is exactly as you describe.

And why? Because when I was four and five and fourteen and twenty and all the

ages in between, Mom said my teeth were ugly and brown and that death and danger

lurked everywhere? Was it because Dad said my outfits made me look " pregnant "

and after watching my dance lesson he said my dance moves " make you look like

you have to go to the bathroom " ? Was it because one day he screamed at me in a

crowded strip-mall parking lot for half an hour because I accidentally spilled a

cup of peanuts in the back of his car (I was ten).

Oversensitive? I think our receptors were shredded before we had the chance to

build them up and make them " muscular. " We try to build them up as adults (with

the help of good eggs like your bf and my husband) but it almost feels like

building houses on flimsy or imaginary foundations.

[Guest guest]

I think being emotionally abused is so hard to deal with because of the fact

that there are no physical scars. But as my therapist has said, it is just as

bad as ANY type of physical and sexual abuse (I went through all three and I can

tell you, the emotional/verbal things haunt me more than any physical thing done

to me). I don't know if everyone is like that because we all experienced

different things and cope differently, but for me, the things that were said to

me, the invalidation, the lack of respect, the broken promises, the insincerity,

the lack of affection, and on and on...it affected me horribly and is 95% of

what I talk about in therapy.

Re: verbal abuse

slingshot2hell wrote:

" I feel like I was way too sensitive as a kid. My nada really only verbally

abused me, even that wasn't always that bad.... There must have been something

wrong with me to begin with that her just SAYING THINGS to me fucked me up for

life. "

You have touched on a huge thing here. I think some of us feel that we have " no

right to complain " about our childhoods because, hey, so-and-so was molested or

so-and-so got hit with a belt. And we only got mocked and yelled at. For years,

I've felt ridiculous trying to explain to people that the reason I am so

screwed-up today, the reason I never had kids (and knew I wouldn't be

emotionally up to the task, sadly) is that I was mocked and yelled at and scared

a lot as a child. It seems so insignificant! Sticks and stones! Yet somehow, I

don't know how, it CAN fuck us up. Maybe because it happens when we are too

young to have ANY self-esteem to counteract it, and our entire sense of self

then is built on mockery and yelling and scare tactics. I feel like I have 65

percent of a personality instead of 100 percent because of this oversensitivity,

which is exactly as you describe.

And why? Because when I was four and five and fourteen and twenty and all the

ages in between, Mom said my teeth were ugly and brown and that death and danger

lurked everywhere? Was it because Dad said my outfits made me look " pregnant "

and after watching my dance lesson he said my dance moves " make you look like

you have to go to the bathroom " ? Was it because one day he screamed at me in a

crowded strip-mall parking lot for half an hour because I accidentally spilled a

cup of peanuts in the back of his car (I was ten).

Oversensitive? I think our receptors were shredded before we had the chance to

build them up and make them " muscular. " We try to build them up as adults (with

the help of good eggs like your bf and my husband) but it almost feels like

building houses on flimsy or imaginary foundations.

[Guest guest]

I completely agree; its the emotional abuse that does the most damage.

I believe that emotional abuse is the largest component of physical and sexual

abuse, and neglect as well.

Conveying to a child that she is no good/irredeemably bad, worthless of any time

or attention, stupid, selfish and ungrateful, ugly or repulsive, will never be

loved... all of those sentiments can be conveyed with words AND with actions, or

both.

Its all abuse, and its all very damaging to a vulnerable child who has *no

choice* but to view his or her parents virtually as all-powerful living gods,

and that whatever the parent tells the child is The Truth.

That's why I wish so badly that there was some way to screen people for being

mentally healthy and stable enough to be parents or be child-care providers.

Children are so abjectly vulnerable to having their little hearts and spirits

broken and their sense of self-worth derailed by thoughtless, empathyless,

narcissistic, resentful, angry, perfectionistic, unstable, inconsistent,

childish, sadistic, psychotic adults.

Children take things said to them to heart so easily. It makes me sad that once

I hurt my nephew's feelings when he was just a little guy, even though I didn't

mean to and apologized immediately. Sister and I took him to the zoo when he

was about 6, and he was having a great time and bouncing around and being very

energetic, so I laughed and said he was a little monkey-boy. It was like I'd

slapped him in the face. He became very sad and withdrawn, and I asked him to

tell me what was wrong. Turns out some kids at his school that didn't like him

had called him a monkey to be mean to him so he thought I wanted to hurt his

feelings like they did.

So, after a sincere apology from me (and an explanation that I think little

monkeys are cute) and a hug he forgave me, and I reminded myself about how

sensitive little children can be to being teased, and avoided even gentle

teasing for a good long time. When he got to be an older child and would

initiate teasing and other silliness himself, then I joined in, and it was a

mutually fun thing.

-Annie

>

>

> I think being emotionally abused is so hard to deal with because of the fact

that there are no physical scars. But as my therapist has said, it is just as

bad as ANY type of physical and sexual abuse (I went through all three and I can

tell you, the emotional/verbal things haunt me more than any physical thing done

to me). I don't know if everyone is like that because we all experienced

different things and cope differently, but for me, the things that were said to

me, the invalidation, the lack of respect, the broken promises, the insincerity,

the lack of affection, and on and on...it affected me horribly and is 95% of

what I talk about in therapy.

>

>

[Guest guest]

The religion I used to be in had some lovely BP-like behaviours that were taught

and encouraged. The main one was called an SRA (severe reality adjustment),

otherwise known as " face-ripping " .

This is where you get someone in a position where they cant escape (church

office, back room, wherever they are positioned that they cant get to the door

past you). Then you scream abuse it them for as long as it takes for them to

break. They are not allowed to say anything in defense. You scream whatever

nasty, horrid accusations you can come up with, until they are so traumatised

they will toe the line. Even better if the person knows other parishioners can

hear through the walls, the more humiliating the better.

It used to trigger the hell out of me (as well as being hell in itself) and was

one of the main reasons I left.

Now when I talk of nadas behaviour, I refer to it as face-ripping. It gives

people a bit more of an idea of how severe it is - its not just a parent being

angry, or telling you off. Its full-on abuse, and as detestable as that term is

to me, it describes it well.

>

> I completely agree; its the emotional abuse that does the most damage.

>

> I believe that emotional abuse is the largest component of physical and sexual

abuse, and neglect as well.

>

> Conveying to a child that she is no good/irredeemably bad, worthless of any

time or attention, stupid, selfish and ungrateful, ugly or repulsive, will

never be loved... all of those sentiments can be conveyed with words AND with

actions, or both.

>

> Its all abuse, and its all very damaging to a vulnerable child who has *no

choice* but to view his or her parents virtually as all-powerful living gods,

and that whatever the parent tells the child is The Truth.

>

> That's why I wish so badly that there was some way to screen people for being

mentally healthy and stable enough to be parents or be child-care providers.

>

> Children are so abjectly vulnerable to having their little hearts and spirits

broken and their sense of self-worth derailed by thoughtless, empathyless,

narcissistic, resentful, angry, perfectionistic, unstable, inconsistent,

childish, sadistic, psychotic adults.

>

> Children take things said to them to heart so easily. It makes me sad that

once I hurt my nephew's feelings when he was just a little guy, even though I

didn't mean to and apologized immediately. Sister and I took him to the zoo

when he was about 6, and he was having a great time and bouncing around and

being very energetic, so I laughed and said he was a little monkey-boy. It was

like I'd slapped him in the face. He became very sad and withdrawn, and I asked

him to tell me what was wrong. Turns out some kids at his school that didn't

like him had called him a monkey to be mean to him so he thought I wanted to

hurt his feelings like they did.

>

> So, after a sincere apology from me (and an explanation that I think little

monkeys are cute) and a hug he forgave me, and I reminded myself about how

sensitive little children can be to being teased, and avoided even gentle

teasing for a good long time. When he got to be an older child and would

initiate teasing and other silliness himself, then I joined in, and it was a

mutually fun thing.

>

> -Annie

[Guest guest]

Oh that is horrible! I can't even understand the point of that practice.

Casey

> >

> > I completely agree; its the emotional abuse that does the most damage.

> >

> > I believe that emotional abuse is the largest component of physical and

sexual abuse, and neglect as well.

> >

> > Conveying to a child that she is no good/irredeemably bad, worthless of any

time or attention, stupid, selfish and ungrateful, ugly or repulsive, will

never be loved... all of those sentiments can be conveyed with words AND with

actions, or both.

> >

> > Its all abuse, and its all very damaging to a vulnerable child who has *no

choice* but to view his or her parents virtually as all-powerful living gods,

and that whatever the parent tells the child is The Truth.

> >

> > That's why I wish so badly that there was some way to screen people for

being mentally healthy and stable enough to be parents or be child-care

providers.

> >

> > Children are so abjectly vulnerable to having their little hearts and

spirits broken and their sense of self-worth derailed by thoughtless,

empathyless, narcissistic, resentful, angry, perfectionistic, unstable,

inconsistent, childish, sadistic, psychotic adults.

> >

> > Children take things said to them to heart so easily. It makes me sad that

once I hurt my nephew's feelings when he was just a little guy, even though I

didn't mean to and apologized immediately. Sister and I took him to the zoo

when he was about 6, and he was having a great time and bouncing around and

being very energetic, so I laughed and said he was a little monkey-boy. It was

like I'd slapped him in the face. He became very sad and withdrawn, and I asked

him to tell me what was wrong. Turns out some kids at his school that didn't

like him had called him a monkey to be mean to him so he thought I wanted to

hurt his feelings like they did.

> >

> > So, after a sincere apology from me (and an explanation that I think little

monkeys are cute) and a hug he forgave me, and I reminded myself about how

sensitive little children can be to being teased, and avoided even gentle

teasing for a good long time. When he got to be an older child and would

initiate teasing and other silliness himself, then I joined in, and it was a

mutually fun thing.

> >

> > -Annie

>