Re: Why the heck does this still get a rise out of me?

[Guest guest]

That is what my Nada said when we first stayed away from her at Christmas, she

then tried everything to make it the biggest, best family get together ever. She

never involved my Dad's family in anything but went all out that year to prove a

point about how I missed out and show the rest of the family how strange and

selfish my behavior is. Good for you, enjoy your witch free holiday, your

partner will be so happy trust me and that is worth so much.

Free x

> Why do her responses, lame and predictable as they are, get me riled up? I

sent her, my dad and sister a message via Facebook that I was not doing the

family thing this Thanksgiving:

> ( " Jerry and I have decided to spend our first 'kid free' Thanksgiving alone.

Actually, we haven't decided exactly what to do this year, but we will not be

doing the family thing this year. We may even take a short vacation if his work

schedule allows. It's time for us to branch out and change things up. So, please

go ahead and make your Thanksgiving plans with our absence in mind. " )

>

> Today I have this response waiting in my email: ( " Sounds good.

> Dad and I have been discussing doing this for a while now. Glad you

understand. Mom " )

>

> WTF? Apparently SHE thinks it was her idea, and is " glad " I understand. The

only thing I am glad to finally understand is that the woman who raised me is a

BPD.

>

> I was expecting her to call me and bitch me out for rejecting her, and had

already worked up my response. I forget she's been at this game her whole life,

and is a master at deflection.

>

> Why does this bother me still? Why does this surprise me? In a way her easy

capitulation will make my life easier, but I also am looking for the TRAP. There

is always a trap. Communications with her just confuse me and make me want to

cry.

>

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure; maybe some of the other members will have some insights for your

situation from their point of view.

Maybe on some subconscious level, you still crave a connection with your mother

and were somehow hoping that she would be disappointed that you're not coming

for Thanksgiving and would beg you or attempt to guilt you into attending?

Perhaps arguing and conflict with your mother is the only way you can connect

with her now, but she sort of pulled the rug out from under you and prevented a

conflict by unexpectedly saying " OK, that's cool " . From my experience, it

hurts worse to be the one rejected (because you have no control) than to be the

one doing the rejecting (because at least you're in control.)

But that's just me speculating, my two cents' worth to take or leave as seems

appropriate to you.

-Annie

>

> Why do her responses, lame and predictable as they are, get me riled up? I

sent her, my dad and sister a message via Facebook that I was not doing the

family thing this Thanksgiving:

> ( " Jerry and I have decided to spend our first 'kid free' Thanksgiving alone.

Actually, we haven't decided exactly what to do this year, but we will not be

doing the family thing this year. We may even take a short vacation if his work

schedule allows. It's time for us to branch out and change things up. So, please

go ahead and make your Thanksgiving plans with our absence in mind. " )

>

> Today I have this response waiting in my email: ( " Sounds good.

> Dad and I have been discussing doing this for a while now. Glad you

understand. Mom " )

>

> WTF? Apparently SHE thinks it was her idea, and is " glad " I understand. The

only thing I am glad to finally understand is that the woman who raised me is a

BPD.

>

> I was expecting her to call me and bitch me out for rejecting her, and had

already worked up my response. I forget she's been at this game her whole life,

and is a master at deflection.

>

> Why does this bother me still? Why does this surprise me? In a way her easy

capitulation will make my life easier, but I also am looking for the TRAP. There

is always a trap. Communications with her just confuse me and make me want to

cry.

>

[Guest guest]

I dont really know why, but that response would make me

steaming-batcrap-screaming mad. Especially the " glad you understand " . I want to

scratch her eyes out and I dont even know her!

I hope you have a lovely Thanksgiving without her!

>

> Why do her responses, lame and predictable as they are, get me riled up? I

sent her, my dad and sister a message via Facebook that I was not doing the

family thing this Thanksgiving:

> ( " Jerry and I have decided to spend our first 'kid free' Thanksgiving alone.

Actually, we haven't decided exactly what to do this year, but we will not be

doing the family thing this year. We may even take a short vacation if his work

schedule allows. It's time for us to branch out and change things up. So, please

go ahead and make your Thanksgiving plans with our absence in mind. " )

>

> Today I have this response waiting in my email: ( " Sounds good.

> Dad and I have been discussing doing this for a while now. Glad you

understand. Mom " )

>

> WTF? Apparently SHE thinks it was her idea, and is " glad " I understand. The

only thing I am glad to finally understand is that the woman who raised me is a

BPD.

>

> I was expecting her to call me and bitch me out for rejecting her, and had

already worked up my response. I forget she's been at this game her whole life,

and is a master at deflection.

>

> Why does this bother me still? Why does this surprise me? In a way her easy

capitulation will make my life easier, but I also am looking for the TRAP. There

is always a trap. Communications with her just confuse me and make me want to

cry.

>

[Guest guest]

I " get " why you would feel crazy... My nada can also create catch-22's.

I have decided to be simple, and even stupid, about such convoluted game

playing with my nada. I try not to " read " anything into her interchanges

anymore, because I simply do not know her real truth or her motives. And I am

more and more OK with accepting that. If someone wants to play a head game with

me, I have better things to do with my time.

My husband told me before we married, that he does not read minds. If I want a

good marriage, I have to communicate and be direct. I remember that when I

think I am supposed to be a " step ahead " of nada. Outsmarting nada gets me shot

in the rear. I would rather be stupid.

So.. to that end, I would encourage you to take her word at face value. You have

been given a ticket out of hell. Become the person YOU want to be and use that

ticket with love for yourself and your husband, and don't let anyone wrest it

from you, by telling you, " nada didn't mean those words, you should KNOW better

than that... " That is exactly the kind of mind-reading that you no longer have

to do. Kansas does not have that bullcrap and you are going there for

Thanksgiving.

If nada later on does turn them back on you, can you learn to trust that you'll

deal with that " just fine " if/when the time comes?

While I can see that she seems to have taken your power from you, truly it

almost sounds like a funny interchange. What if you let yourself think of this

as a joke that YOU initiated?

There is a quote that I sometimes use to remind myself to not get bent out of

shape when someone steals my thunder or takes credit for something that was

probably " my " idea:

" You can accomplish anything if you don't care who takes the credit. " You didn't

want to spend the holiday with these people, did you?

Interpret her words so they give you permission to nurture yourself. Happiness

truly is the best revenge!

Best,

PS: I apologize if I have been too bossy. I don't mean to be cold or

indifferent, just want to give you something to think about. OK?

[Guest guest]

Oh yes, this type of thing is familiar. This is her subtle way of showing that

she's still in charge, it was her idea or an idea she claims as having for

herself that she's glad you understand....you, being the one who needs to

understand the thing SHE knows. What a way to twist it all!

> >

> > Why do her responses, lame and predictable as they are, get me riled up? I

sent her, my dad and sister a message via Facebook that I was not doing the

family thing this Thanksgiving:

> > ( " Jerry and I have decided to spend our first 'kid free' Thanksgiving alone.

Actually, we haven't decided exactly what to do this year, but we will not be

doing the family thing this year. We may even take a short vacation if his work

schedule allows. It's time for us to branch out and change things up. So, please

go ahead and make your Thanksgiving plans with our absence in mind. " )

> >

> > Today I have this response waiting in my email: ( " Sounds good.

> > Dad and I have been discussing doing this for a while now. Glad you

understand. Mom " )

> >

> > WTF? Apparently SHE thinks it was her idea, and is " glad " I understand. The

only thing I am glad to finally understand is that the woman who raised me is a

BPD.

> >

> > I was expecting her to call me and bitch me out for rejecting her, and had

already worked up my response. I forget she's been at this game her whole life,

and is a master at deflection.

> >

> > Why does this bother me still? Why does this surprise me? In a way her easy

capitulation will make my life easier, but I also am looking for the TRAP. There

is always a trap. Communications with her just confuse me and make me want to

cry.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I am truely thankful for all of your comments. I took no one for being bossy,

etc. I really wanted some insight on what was making me " batcrap-mad " in her

response, since she really was giving me that 'ticket outta hell' and I should

have been grateful! You guys helped me a lot.

The points that really resounded with me were that:

1) the 'Queen' was 'allowing' me, the 'child'. (doesn't matter--let it go)

2) I had myself all worked up and bracing for an accusatory, shrieking phone

call. You know, the ones where we are blamed for every possible crime imaginable

against Nada. (trying to second guess NADA again)

Also, your thoughts have made me realize:

3) With all the therapy, relizations and talking out, her aiming her hatred

toward me still hurts. I have enjoyed being the 'fair haired' child during long

stretches, so when her bitter anger is aimed at me I am still allowing it to

would the child in me. (again, let it go -- I can't fix her)

4) In all my relationships except her, I prefer and enjoy direct exchanges. I

think subconsciously I was hoping somehow my email would open up a dialog

between us, maybe clear the air (she's been gunning for me for over a year now).

But that sane conversation is what I want, not what she wants. If she actually

wanted to do that, then she would be normal and not BPD: a BPD would percieve an

open dialog as them losing their power.

[Guest guest]

YES!! That is what I want. But " reading " NADA and adapting my behavior to avoid

her fire is such an old, well established coping mechanism from my childhood. I

have read this is common with most kids who grew up under a mentally ill or

addict parent; its a form of PTSD.

HOW do you start the process of REALLY letting go of reading NADA? Is it a

perception of finally being safe? If that's the case, I haven't arrived at safe

yet.

I know this is entwined with the ego: as children we are denied being taken

seriously, our opinions laughed at, our needs dismissed. I feel I have strived

my whole life to be accepted as a fully functional, intelligent adult who is

entitled to be listened to by other adults.

How do you get your ego to let go having your words and motivations twisted by

NADA? How do you give yourself permission to be simple/stupid and ignore her

game playing? I want that, I really do.

>

> I have decided to be simple, and even stupid, about such convoluted game

playing with my nada. I try not to " read " anything into her interchanges

anymore, because I simply do not know her real truth or her motives. And I am

more and more OK with accepting that. If someone wants to play a head game with

me, I have better things to do with my time.

My husband told me before we married, that he does not read minds. If I want a

good marriage, I have to communicate and be direct. I remember that when I think

I am supposed to be a " step ahead " of nada. Outsmarting nada gets me shot in the

rear. I would rather be stupid.

[Guest guest]

It sounds harsh to say this, but for me what has been helping me to let go so

that my nada's head games/manipulations (waify sobbing, petulance & silent

treatments; queen-like raging, narcissism & demands for obedience; witch-like

insults, shaming & degrading me, false accusations, revenge behaviors;

histrionic-like competitiveness, jealousy, hysterical acting-out, etc.,) don't

affect me so much anymore... has been to detach from her emotionally, which is

another way of saying " to stop loving her as my mother. "

I've gradually come to the conclusion that my mother has probably not ever loved

me in a way that most people would define, experience and express " love " , and

" mother-love " specifically. I think she is just not capable of it, because real

love requires empathy and the ability to perceive another person (in this case,

me) as a separate individual *who is not an extension of her, not an object, and

not a possession.* My mother can only relate to me in a pleasant, loving,

nurturing way when I'm " perfect " , meaning that her perception is that I am

mirroring her exactly. That makes me merely a thing, an object, (a reflection

of herself) not me (just a fellow imperfect human being.)

If I'm not being exactly the way she wants me to be (her idealized, perfect

self) then she feels justified and entitled to attack me, and she really knows

how to draw " blood " when she attacks me emotionally. She wants to hurt me as

badly as she can.

That's not love.

So, I decided to stop loving someone who can't love me back.

What I feel for her now is something like pity. I'm sorry that she is such an

unhappy, miserable person who (apparently) feels a *need* to hurt me, but I am

approaching a point where I no longer care how she feels about me and I do not

feel responsible for her emotional well-being.

So. Perhaps for those of you who believe that your mothers have at least a

rudimentary sense of empathy and can sense that there is some kernel of genuine

love and caring mixed in with the pd behaviors, this wouldn't work for you.

But I thought I'd share this because it seems to be working for me to accept the

reality that in my case, there was really nothing that I was giving up, except

an illusion of love.

-Annie

> >

> > I have decided to be simple, and even stupid, about such convoluted game

playing with my nada. I try not to " read " anything into her interchanges

anymore, because I simply do not know her real truth or her motives. And I am

more and more OK with accepting that. If someone wants to play a head game with

me, I have better things to do with my time.

>

> My husband told me before we married, that he does not read minds. If I want a

good marriage, I have to communicate and be direct. I remember that when I think

I am supposed to be a " step ahead " of nada. Outsmarting nada gets me shot in the

rear. I would rather be stupid.

>

[Guest guest]

Ha ha ha ha, I haven't laughed so hard in a long time. your nada. . . funny.

If I were you i would laugh, make fun of her behind her back, and take it as

evidence that there is something mentally totally wrong with her. Or that

she is totally stupid and clueless. Then I would save it as documentation.

The only other thing I can think of, is did she send it from her I phone

while totally distracted or something. . I'm sure not since I've heard

simliar from my own BPD.

Personally, too, I'd take it as permission not to speak to her again. i

wouldn't respond.

XOXO

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 3:00 PM, anuria67854 wrote:

>

>

> It sounds harsh to say this, but for me whHat has been helping me to let go

> so that my nada's head games/manipulations (waify sobbing, petulance &

> silent treatments; queen-like raging, narcissism & demands for obedience;

> witch-like insults, shaming & degrading me, false accusations, revenge

> behaviors; histrionic-like competitiveness, jealousy, hysterical acting-out,

> etc.,) don't affect me so much anymore... has been to detach from her

> emotionally, which is another way of saying " to stop loving her as my

> mother. "

>

> I've gradually come to the conclusion that my mother has probably not ever

> loved me in a way that most people would define, experience and express

> " love " , and " mother-love " specifically. I think she is just not capable of

> it, because real love requires empathy and the ability to perceive another

> person (in this case, me) as a separate individual *who is not an extension

> of her, not an object, and not a possession.* My mother can only relate to

> me in a pleasant, loving, nurturing way when I'm " perfect " , meaning that her

> perception is that I am mirroring her exactly. That makes me merely a thing,

> an object, (a reflection of herself) not me (just a fellow imperfect human

> being.)

>

> If I'm not being exactly the way she wants me to be (her idealized, perfect

> self) then she feels justified and entitled to attack me, and she really

> knows how to draw " blood " when she attacks me emotionally. She wants to hurt

> me as badly as she can.

>

> That's not love.

>

> So, I decided to stop loving someone who can't love me back.

>

> What I feel for her now is something like pity. I'm sorry that she is such

> an unhappy, miserable person who (apparently) feels a *need* to hurt me, but

> I am approaching a point where I no longer care how she feels about me and I

> do not feel responsible for her emotional well-being.

>

> So. Perhaps for those of you who believe that your mothers have at least a

> rudimentary sense of empathy and can sense that there is some kernel of

> genuine love and caring mixed in with the pd behaviors, this wouldn't work

> for you.

>

> But I thought I'd share this because it seems to be working for me to

> accept the reality that in my case, there was really nothing that I was

> giving up, except an illusion of love.

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

> > >

> > > I have decided to be simple, and even stupid, about such convoluted

> game playing with my nada. I try not to " read " anything into her

> interchanges anymore, because I simply do not know her real truth or her

> motives. And I am more and more OK with accepting that. If someone wants to

> play a head game with me, I have better things to do with my time.

> >

> > My husband told me before we married, that he does not read minds. If I

> want a good marriage, I have to communicate and be direct. I remember that

> when I think I am supposed to be a " step ahead " of nada. Outsmarting nada

> gets me shot in the rear. I would rather be stupid.

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi GS,

My post in reply to echobabe's and her post were kind of sad, so I don't get the

" Ha-ha-ha " response; perhaps you were responding to a different post but

attached mine by mistake?

-Annie

>

> >

> >

> > It sounds harsh to say this, but for me whHat has been helping me to let go

> > so that my nada's head games/manipulations (waify sobbing, petulance &

> > silent treatments; queen-like raging, narcissism & demands for obedience;

> > witch-like insults, shaming & degrading me, false accusations, revenge

> > behaviors; histrionic-like competitiveness, jealousy, hysterical acting-out,

> > etc.,) don't affect me so much anymore... has been to detach from her

> > emotionally, which is another way of saying " to stop loving her as my

> > mother. "

> >

> > I've gradually come to the conclusion that my mother has probably not ever

> > loved me in a way that most people would define, experience and express

> > " love " , and " mother-love " specifically. I think she is just not capable of

> > it, because real love requires empathy and the ability to perceive another

> > person (in this case, me) as a separate individual *who is not an extension

> > of her, not an object, and not a possession.* My mother can only relate to

> > me in a pleasant, loving, nurturing way when I'm " perfect " , meaning that her

> > perception is that I am mirroring her exactly. That makes me merely a thing,

> > an object, (a reflection of herself) not me (just a fellow imperfect human

> > being.)

> >

> > If I'm not being exactly the way she wants me to be (her idealized, perfect

> > self) then she feels justified and entitled to attack me, and she really

> > knows how to draw " blood " when she attacks me emotionally. She wants to hurt

> > me as badly as she can.

> >

> > That's not love.

> >

> > So, I decided to stop loving someone who can't love me back.

> >

> > What I feel for her now is something like pity. I'm sorry that she is such

> > an unhappy, miserable person who (apparently) feels a *need* to hurt me, but

> > I am approaching a point where I no longer care how she feels about me and I

> > do not feel responsible for her emotional well-being.

> >

> > So. Perhaps for those of you who believe that your mothers have at least a

> > rudimentary sense of empathy and can sense that there is some kernel of

> > genuine love and caring mixed in with the pd behaviors, this wouldn't work

> > for you.

> >

> > But I thought I'd share this because it seems to be working for me to

> > accept the reality that in my case, there was really nothing that I was

> > giving up, except an illusion of love.

> >

> > -Annie

[Guest guest]

" But I thought I'd share this because it seems to be working for me to accept

the

reality that in my case, there was really nothing that I was giving up, except

an illusion of love. "

-Annie

AN ILLUSION OF LOVE

Well-said.

Coal Miner's Daughter

> > >

> > > I have decided to be simple, and even stupid, about such convoluted game

playing with my nada. I try not to " read " anything into her interchanges

anymore, because I simply do not know her real truth or her motives. And I am

more and more OK with accepting that. If someone wants to play a head game with

me, I have better things to do with my time.

> >

> > My husband told me before we married, that he does not read minds. If I want

a good marriage, I have to communicate and be direct. I remember that when I

think I am supposed to be a " step ahead " of nada. Outsmarting nada gets me shot

in the rear. I would rather be stupid.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

No I'm laughing because nada said it was all her idea to go out of town for

the holidays. Nice one, nada!

On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 9:38 AM, anuria67854 wrote:

>

>

> Hi GS,

> My post in reply to echobabe's and her post were kind of sad, so I don't

> get the " Ha-ha-ha " response; perhaps you were responding to a different post

> but attached mine by mistake?

> -Annie

>

>

>

>

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > It sounds harsh to say this, but for me whHat has been helping me to

> let go

> > > so that my nada's head games/manipulations (waify sobbing, petulance &

> > > silent treatments; queen-like raging, narcissism & demands for

> obedience;

> > > witch-like insults, shaming & degrading me, false accusations, revenge

> > > behaviors; histrionic-like competitiveness, jealousy, hysterical

> acting-out,

> > > etc.,) don't affect me so much anymore... has been to detach from her

> > > emotionally, which is another way of saying " to stop loving her as my

> > > mother. "

> > >

> > > I've gradually come to the conclusion that my mother has probably not

> ever

> > > loved me in a way that most people would define, experience and express

> > > " love " , and " mother-love " specifically. I think she is just not capable

> of

> > > it, because real love requires empathy and the ability to perceive

> another

> > > person (in this case, me) as a separate individual *who is not an

> extension

> > > of her, not an object, and not a possession.* My mother can only relate

> to

> > > me in a pleasant, loving, nurturing way when I'm " perfect " , meaning

> that her

> > > perception is that I am mirroring her exactly. That makes me merely a

> thing,

> > > an object, (a reflection of herself) not me (just a fellow imperfect

> human

> > > being.)

> > >

> > > If I'm not being exactly the way she wants me to be (her idealized,

> perfect

> > > self) then she feels justified and entitled to attack me, and she

> really

> > > knows how to draw " blood " when she attacks me emotionally. She wants to

> hurt

> > > me as badly as she can.

> > >

> > > That's not love.

> > >

> > > So, I decided to stop loving someone who can't love me back.

> > >

> > > What I feel for her now is something like pity. I'm sorry that she is

> such

> > > an unhappy, miserable person who (apparently) feels a *need* to hurt

> me, but

> > > I am approaching a point where I no longer care how she feels about me

> and I

> > > do not feel responsible for her emotional well-being.

> > >

> > > So. Perhaps for those of you who believe that your mothers have at

> least a

> > > rudimentary sense of empathy and can sense that there is some kernel of

> > > genuine love and caring mixed in with the pd behaviors, this wouldn't

> work

> > > for you.

> > >

> > > But I thought I'd share this because it seems to be working for me to

> > > accept the reality that in my case, there was really nothing that I was

> > > giving up, except an illusion of love.

> > >

> > > -Annie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ah, I see; you were replying to echobabe's original post that began this thread.

Sorry for the confusion.

-Annie

>

> >

> >

> > Hi GS,

> > My post in reply to echobabe's and her post were kind of sad, so I don't

> > get the " Ha-ha-ha " response; perhaps you were responding to a different post

> > but attached mine by mistake?

> > -Annie

[Guest guest]

Today the hubster and I had an opportunity to put all those practices you guys

suggested into play. We had a NADA experience and a half.

Today is DH's birthday. I guess my mom went to his Facebook profile to say happy

b-day and read his wall. Then she started leaving comments. And when he didn't

answer in a couple hours (dear God, the man was at work!) she called to ask him

for an explanation. Of what? She never would say, just that he had something up

on his wall about her. He kept telling her he didn't know what she was talking

about (the only thing he posted there was " Thanks for the birthday wishes " ).

She never would SAY what she found offensive. Both of us were clueless as to

what she was freaking about, and laughed it off.

A while later my daughter called. After she visited his profile she decided NADA

had zeroed in on my DH " liking " the page " In-laws ...How is my spouse related to

these people? " The funny part is that I was the one who " liked " that page back

in August--he was just agreeing with me that his own family was nuts!

Hand it to my mom, Paranoid Patty, to make it ALL ABOUT HER! And she never did

wish my husband a happy birthday.

[Guest guest]

Echobabe, I am glad to see that in the response I saw from you in yesterday's

digest... you too got a chuckle. I am glad that several of us got a laugh out of

the nada response, in the original post!

I appreciate too, Annie's more serious take on the original post too.Seriousness

keeps me grounded in my approach.

Still, here is why I think the humor is so important: It loosens up our approach

to nada and enables us to find more creative solutions.

Here is why I laugh at your situation. In trying to " best " you, she let you off

the hook. How wild and how magical!

I love it when my nada is able to see reality as it is, no matter how temporary

the insight is.

I love that your nada answered you back right away on Facebook and publically.

That public aspect of Facebook ( if it was a wall post?).... means that nada at

least wanted to " look " like she was capable of taking the high road. Wait, what

I really love, is that nada set you up for a really nice resolution. What would

make me nervous of course, if I were you, would be that she can't keep her word.

She may have a conniption later on and take all those words back with a snit.

When my mom many years ago apologized to me for some of her behaviors when I was

a child, and told me I was a good person (finally)... I was so relieved. Then,

she " took it all back " in my next conversation by phone. I did not argue with

her or fight. I said, " Mom, here is what I heard you say. " And I told it to her

in one sentence. Then I told her, that for me that was an enduring truth, and I

was holding her to it. And then I gently hung up the phone.

I am at the point right now where I am not attached to having my viewpoint or

my decisions validated by nada. My nada always wants to " appear " intelligent,

cultured, and compassionate. But my nada's ability to incorporate... really

encorporate... a balanced perspective on a complex problem is limited. My mom

can jump ahead but then she falls back big time. All she really know how to do

is to confuse someone else, when they are on track for finding a resolution to a

problem. She can only point out what someone else is doing " wrong " , and not

really be helpful in moving anyone consistently towards solving a problem or

helping someone through a confusing time.

I am not always able to keep from going crazy with my nada, each time she takes

back healthy words, but I do my best to remember the good, toss out the bad, and

tell nada I am not going backwards with her.

So, if my nada seems to " beat " me to resolving one of my problems, today, or

" our " mutual problem, I am going to be happy and validate her as much as I can

humanly (and honestly) do so.

So, keep the facebook words or write them down and use them when it is

appropriate, honest and kind. You will gain much for yourself. Even if nada

herself makes no progress, you will be marking yours and finding more sanity.

Each time you have even the tiniest peace of mind after an interaction with

nada, that is victory.

Best,