Re: new to group - boundaries

[Guest guest]

When I first tried to implement boundaries, nada dropped me like a hot

potato! It infuriated her. So, tread carefully, but stick by your guns!

In a message dated 10/30/2010 12:12:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

i8ntgonatakit@... writes:

I just heard about this group and am amazed at the helpful information.

I am trying to institute boundaries with my mother; so far so good.

Should I

expect more repercussions soon like in the past? Or can a person like

this

begin to accept boundaries over time if they have been consistently used?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Guest guest]

Hello and welcome to the group.

My advice is to expect repercussions every time you try to set a

new boundary. She may get used to the boundaries you've already

set, but if she's typical, each new one will set her off again.

It helps to think of them as having the emotional maturity of a

three year old. Think about how toddlers react to having rules

set and enforced. They often cry and throw tantrums when told

they can't do what they want to do, but eventually they realize

that you mean it and calm down until they're told " no " about

something new.

At 04:10 PM 10/29/2010 R B wrote:

>I just heard about this group and am amazed at the helpful

>information.

>

>I am trying to institute boundaries with my mother; so far so

>good. Should I

>expect more repercussions soon like in the past? Or can a

>person like this

>begin to accept boundaries over time if they have been

>consistently used?

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Welcome!

My attempts to set boundaries didn't work.

I am now NC with my mother, and I expect to be this way for a long, long time.

She is sticking to her guns, in that she believes everything wrong in her life,

I did to her...and she feels that I need to pay her bills to " fix it. "

At 43, I am responsible only for myself and my chihuahua. The hardest part of

all of this has been challenging my fear, obligations, and guilt-- and even

hope, so I can get myself healthy and happy.

[Guest guest]

You have to think of your NADA as a three year old. But one that never learns or

gets past the three year old stage.

Expect retaliation when you establish boundaries. Expect them to challenge the

boundaries every chance they get.

I honestly think that unless you can get and keep the upper hand over them, they

will always butt against any boundaries you establish.

I set boundaries with my mother and she didn't like them, so she cut off contact

altogether. It's for the best. I was protecting my children. Unlike her, I

protect my children from abuse.

>

> I just heard about this group and am amazed at the helpful information.

>

> I am trying to institute boundaries with my mother; so far so good.  Should I

> expect more repercussions soon like in the past?  Or can a person like this

> begin to accept boundaries over time if they have been consistently used?

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

What seems to be working for Sister and me may not work for everyone, but, here

it is for your consideration. (FYI, Sister lives near our nada, I live on the

other side of the country; nada's choice: she and dad chose to move.)

About 3-and-a-half years ago now, nada said something hateful and insulting to

Sister about Sister's son, and that was the straw that finally broke the camel's

back so to speak. Sister had had it. Sister had been knocking herself out

trying to please nada as her part-time caregiver for a decade (after dad died),

and all Sister got for her efforts were insults and negativity. Sister told

herself she could handle insults directed at herself, but not at her son. The

truth was that Sister was becoming clinically depressed and started seeing a

psychologist, who confirmed for us that our nada indeed has a severe mental

disorder and it was OK for Sister to not sacrifice herself to please someone who

is unpleasable and had such a toxic effect on Sister's sense of self-worth.

So, Sister and I together gave our nada an ultimatum: " We are going No Contact

with you until you get into therapy and show some improvement in your

behaviors. " Nada was shocked but she actually did go into therapy; after 6

months nada seemed to be miraculously cured! Sister was delighted and resumed

contact (I remained skeptical) but Sister discovered that the " cure " wasn't

real, it was just nada holding in her negative, resentful, vitriolic acting-out

behaviors for longer than usual.

After a few weeks of " good nada " , nada had a spectacular melt-down rage-tantrum

in which she accused Sister (and me) of being the crazy ones, that we are

hateful, mean liars, there was nothing wrong with nada, she had always been the

perfect mother to us, etc. Total denial, total lack of accepting any

responsibility for her own behaviors, total blaming of others. So much for that

round of therapy.

So, Sister resumed no contact, I remained that way. Nada decided to go back

into therapy. After a few months, Sister resumed limited contact, but I've

remained in virtually no contact.

After another 6 months of weekly therapy, our nada seemed to be behaving herself

much better, again. My own personal theory is that my nada is intelligent

enough to realize that if she continues to verbally mistreat Sister, she will

lose the only daughter who is still willing to have contact with her and nada

will be completely abandoned. Nada knows she only has one egg left in her

basket, so she'd better take care of it.

I think nada's improved behavior is also due to Sister cutting way, way back on

the amount of her time she gives nada. Sister was giving nada most of her free

time and mostly getting abused for it! Now Sister only visits our mother once a

month, and nada behaves herself!

My theory is that nobody in her entire life ever gave our nada consequences for

bad behavior. She was always the alpha-wolf in our " pack " and she'd been the

alpha-wolf: the dominant bully-child in her foo growing up. Her own parents

didn't know how to handle her and just let her have her way.

So, finally, nada accepts Sister as the " alpha " it would seem, and behaves much

better than she used to.

But that's just my theory, to take or leave.

-Annie

> >

> > I just heard about this group and am amazed at the helpful information.

> >

> > I am trying to institute boundaries with my mother; so far so good.  Should

I

> > expect more repercussions soon like in the past?  Or can a person like this

> > begin to accept boundaries over time if they have been consistently used?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Annie.

Your theory works for me, at least to some extent. I think

they're used to getting their own way and having people

successfully stand up to them is a real change for them. My

nada's behavior around me got much better several months after

my sister graduated from college and went NC in such a way that

nada doesn't have any way to contact her except through

me. Until my sister finished her education, nada had some

leverage over both of us because my sister needed her to fill

out required forms to get financial aid for college. Once we no

longer needed her to do that, I could take a hard line with her

and enforce my boundaries. It took a while for it to penetrate

to her that I meant it when I said I wasn't going to put up with

her misbehavior, but over five years later, she's mostly

treating me decently. When she doesn't, I leave or hang up the

phone.

I don't think my nada's problem was that she never had negative

consequences for her behavior earlier in her life. I think the

big problem was that in her twisted mind, the negative

consequences were never strong enough to prevent her from doing

what she wanted to do and/or other people were willing to save

her from the negative consequences. It is hard to find negative

consequences that are important enough to a nada to make her

change her behavior. Their internal need to act like a nada

crushes most negative consequences. Besides that, they're good

at rewriting history in their minds so that the negative

consequences were all someone else's fault.

At 12:22 PM 10/31/2010 anuria67854 wrote:

>What seems to be working for Sister and me may not work for

>everyone, but, here it is for your consideration. (FYI, Sister

>lives near our nada, I live on the other side of the country;

>nada's choice: she and dad chose to move.)

>

>About 3-and-a-half years ago now, nada said something hateful

>and insulting to Sister about Sister's son, and that was the

>straw that finally broke the camel's back so to speak. Sister

>had had it. Sister had been knocking herself out trying to

>please nada as her part-time caregiver for a decade (after dad

>died), and all Sister got for her efforts were insults and

>negativity. Sister told herself she could handle insults

>directed at herself, but not at her son. The truth was that

>Sister was becoming clinically depressed and started seeing a

>psychologist, who confirmed for us that our nada indeed has a

>severe mental disorder and it was OK for Sister to not

>sacrifice herself to please someone who is unpleasable and had

>such a toxic effect on Sister's sense of self-worth.

>

>So, Sister and I together gave our nada an ultimatum: " We are

>going No Contact with you until you get into therapy and show

>some improvement in your behaviors. " Nada was shocked but she

>actually did go into therapy; after 6 months nada seemed to be

>miraculously cured! Sister was delighted and resumed contact

>(I remained skeptical) but Sister discovered that the " cure "

>wasn't real, it was just nada holding in her negative,

>resentful, vitriolic acting-out behaviors for longer than

>usual.

>

>After a few weeks of " good nada " , nada had a spectacular

>melt-down rage-tantrum in which she accused Sister (and me) of

>being the crazy ones, that we are hateful, mean liars, there

>was nothing wrong with nada, she had always been the perfect

>mother to us, etc. Total denial, total lack of accepting any

>responsibility for her own behaviors, total blaming of

>others. So much for that round of therapy.

>

>So, Sister resumed no contact, I remained that way. Nada

>decided to go back into therapy. After a few months, Sister

>resumed limited contact, but I've remained in virtually no

>contact.

>

>After another 6 months of weekly therapy, our nada seemed to be

>behaving herself much better, again. My own personal theory is

>that my nada is intelligent enough to realize that if she

>continues to verbally mistreat Sister, she will lose the only

>daughter who is still willing to have contact with her and nada

>will be completely abandoned. Nada knows she only has one egg

>left in her basket, so she'd better take care of it.

>

>I think nada's improved behavior is also due to Sister cutting

>way, way back on the amount of her time she gives nada. Sister

>was giving nada most of her free time and mostly getting abused

>for it! Now Sister only visits our mother once a month, and

>nada behaves herself!

>

>My theory is that nobody in her entire life ever gave our nada

>consequences for bad behavior. She was always the alpha-wolf

>in our " pack " and she'd been the alpha-wolf: the dominant

>bully-child in her foo growing up. Her own parents didn't know

>how to handle her and just let her have her way.

>

>So, finally, nada accepts Sister as the " alpha " it would seem,

>and behaves much better than she used to.

>

>But that's just my theory, to take or leave.

>

>-Annie

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

This caught my attention.

Unlike her I protect her child from abuse! 

Me.. .I'm that child that I am standing up for!

NC for over half my life.  Didn't know diagnosis of nada until my sister and

daughter were diagnosed 2 years ago.

Sue

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 6:39:27 AM

Subject: Re: new to group - boundaries

 

You have to think of your NADA as a three year old. But one that never learns or

gets past the three year old stage.

Expect retaliation when you establish boundaries. Expect them to challenge the

boundaries every chance they get.

I honestly think that unless you can get and keep the upper hand over them, they

will always butt against any boundaries you establish.

I set boundaries with my mother and she didn't like them, so she cut off contact

altogether. It's for the best. I was protecting my children. Unlike her, I

protect my children from abuse.

>

> I just heard about this group and am amazed at the helpful information.

>

> I am trying to institute boundaries with my mother; so far so good.  Should I

> expect more repercussions soon like in the past?  Or can a person like this

> begin to accept boundaries over time if they have been consistently used?

>

>

>

>

>