this point on the path

[Guest guest]

I am trying to detach. That's the place on the path where I am now.

A lot of you, most of you in this group, are farther along on this path.

I realize what's at stake here and that it's up to me to do this work, to

understand that I can't make her happy, that I can't change her mind about

ANYTHING, that I can't alleviate her pain. I still tell myself: Well, at least

you can LESSEN her pain by not sparking any conflicts.

But then, as always, it is all about her pain. Everything has always been all

about her pain -- everything, as if her pain (her fear, her self-loathing, her

shame) is a big ever-present stalker who follows us everywhere, but on whom we

are not allowed to call the cops.

She refuses, has always refused, to seek therapy. She says she already knows

what any therapist would say (she doesn't) and that it won't help. I'm sick of

urging her to do even minimal things to ease her misery -- eat, see a therapist

(it would cost nothing), read a book. She just shouts no.

My choice is to maintain this endless fruitless argument or learn how to be an

adult and detach. This is hard. I live nearly 1,000 miles away from her and only

visit once a year, and do have a life and career of sorts, but even so.

It's hard. I realize, from reading your posts, that most of you have passed this

point a long, long time ago.

[Guest guest]

Its true, each of us is on his or her own path to healing and more normality,

and at different stages along the path. You have such a great deal of insight

already, though, that its very encouraging.

I am in virtually no contact now, but recently had an unwanted face to face

visit with nada over the summer, for just a couple of days.

It was difficult for me. Becoming emotionally detached is for me a process, not

achieved easily or instantly.

I have to say that personally find that when my nada uses pathetic, begging,

" waif " behaviors with me, its MUCH more difficult for me to remain detached

because that triggers feelings of guilt in me. Its MUCH easier to remain

detached from her when she tries to bully me, because that makes me angry.

Anger feels empowering to me, whereas guilt is paralyzing.

I'm at the stage where I'm trying to retain comprehension that her attempts to

make me feel guilty are deliberate, for her own benefit, and are just another

*form* of manipulation and control, and when I think of it in those terms...

THAT makes me angry.

Anger gives me my power and control back. It pisses me off that she thinks she

can play me like a violin, and that she thinks I am stupid and gullible enough

to buy it, again. I remind myself that every time I've forgiven her (again) and

have relaxed my guard and started to trust her (again), she lets me have it

*again* with a powerful sucker-punch to the gut (emotionally speaking) *again*.

I remind myself of the repeating pattern of her behavior, and mine.

That's how my internal dialogue goes, anyway. That's how I try to convince

myself to remain detached and not give in to misplaced and inappropriate

feelings of guilt and responsibility: I remind myself that I'm being " played. "

I urge you to read up about codependency: how it often begins in childhood when

a child has a parent who is mentally ill or is an addict of some kind, and how

to overcome codependency. Group therapy, private therapy, and 12-step

organizations like CODA help too.

Here's a good article on codependency at MedWeb:

http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/features/signs-of-a-codependent-relations\

hip

-Annie

>

> I am trying to detach. That's the place on the path where I am now.

>

> A lot of you, most of you in this group, are farther along on this path.

>

> I realize what's at stake here and that it's up to me to do this work, to

understand that I can't make her happy, that I can't change her mind about

ANYTHING, that I can't alleviate her pain. I still tell myself: Well, at least

you can LESSEN her pain by not sparking any conflicts.

>

> But then, as always, it is all about her pain. Everything has always been all

about her pain -- everything, as if her pain (her fear, her self-loathing, her

shame) is a big ever-present stalker who follows us everywhere, but on whom we

are not allowed to call the cops.

>

> She refuses, has always refused, to seek therapy. She says she already knows

what any therapist would say (she doesn't) and that it won't help. I'm sick of

urging her to do even minimal things to ease her misery -- eat, see a therapist

(it would cost nothing), read a book. She just shouts no.

>

> My choice is to maintain this endless fruitless argument or learn how to be an

adult and detach. This is hard. I live nearly 1,000 miles away from her and only

visit once a year, and do have a life and career of sorts, but even so.

>

> It's hard. I realize, from reading your posts, that most of you have passed

this point a long, long time ago.

>

[Guest guest]

Give yourself tons and tons of grace and mercy right now.

Yes, some of us " passed " through this threshold at a different time. But trust

me when I say, going through this before someone else doesn't make anyone better

than anyone else--it makes us fellow strugglers.

We are all in this together. There are some things you have a better handle on

than I do. There are some days that are beter than others. There are some

things I still can't get my head around. And I'm starting to appreciate I will

never " arrive " with this one.

I remember feeling just so stupid when I started this journey. " How could I

have NOT seen it? How can I be so far behind? Everyone else seems to 'get'

that my parents are crazy and I didn't see it my whole life!! How could I

possibly have SO much to catch up on???? "

Truth is, we couldn't have seen it. The more I know about BPD, the more I

understand--there is no way around the brain washing that takes place when you

are raised by a BPD.

We are the people with great courage, because we eventually did see it. Those

who choose healing are the heroes. Yourself included!

Press forward, and know we are all here for you.

Blessings,

Karla

>

> I am trying to detach. That's the place on the path where I am now.

>

> A lot of you, most of you in this group, are farther along on this path.

>

> I realize what's at stake here and that it's up to me to do this work, to

understand that I can't make her happy, that I can't change her mind about

ANYTHING, that I can't alleviate her pain. I still tell myself: Well, at least

you can LESSEN her pain by not sparking any conflicts.

>

> But then, as always, it is all about her pain. Everything has always been all

about her pain -- everything, as if her pain (her fear, her self-loathing, her

shame) is a big ever-present stalker who follows us everywhere, but on whom we

are not allowed to call the cops.

>

> She refuses, has always refused, to seek therapy. She says she already knows

what any therapist would say (she doesn't) and that it won't help. I'm sick of

urging her to do even minimal things to ease her misery -- eat, see a therapist

(it would cost nothing), read a book. She just shouts no.

>

> My choice is to maintain this endless fruitless argument or learn how to be an

adult and detach. This is hard. I live nearly 1,000 miles away from her and only

visit once a year, and do have a life and career of sorts, but even so.

>

> It's hard. I realize, from reading your posts, that most of you have passed

this point a long, long time ago.

>

[Guest guest]

Justicecamp, I feel you.

BP is a disorder and part of her disorder is the super-extremes (hot or cold, on

or off,etc), not EVER accepting being wrong or that something is wrong with

them. BP's don't think they need therapy because they dont think there is

anything wrong with them.. and that is the disease and you can't force it.

You want to detach and that's ok to feel that way. Survival... and I'm sure

guilt. I suffered with guilt for almost 20 years until I realized there was

nothing wrong with me (when it came to our arguments). I have been there and you

should know you are not alone. Some of us may be passed it but that doesn't mean

we forgot it. You are doing the best you can and it seems, from what I read,

that you are sticking it out longer then many. Kudos to you!

but notice to a possible alternative, to tell her you are there for her and

continue living a healthy life. Do not fall to extremes like she has, don't do

all or none.. be in the grey. tell her you are there and mentally be ok if she

needs the help and asks (sadly may never happen) and be ok with just being ok to

her.

Does this help? I've been there..

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 12:04:01 PM

Subject: this point on the path

 

I am trying to detach. That's the place on the path where I am now.

A lot of you, most of you in this group, are farther along on this path.

I realize what's at stake here and that it's up to me to do this work, to

understand that I can't make her happy, that I can't change her mind about

ANYTHING, that I can't alleviate her pain. I still tell myself: Well, at least

you can LESSEN her pain by not sparking any conflicts.

But then, as always, it is all about her pain. Everything has always been all

about her pain -- everything, as if her pain (her fear, her self-loathing, her

shame) is a big ever-present stalker who follows us everywhere, but on whom we

are not allowed to call the cops.

She refuses, has always refused, to seek therapy. She says she already knows

what any therapist would say (she doesn't) and that it won't help. I'm sick of

urging her to do even minimal things to ease her misery -- eat, see a therapist

(it would cost nothing), read a book. She just shouts no.

My choice is to maintain this endless fruitless argument or learn how to be an

adult and detach. This is hard. I live nearly 1,000 miles away from her and only

visit once a year, and do have a life and career of sorts, but even so.

It's hard. I realize, from reading your posts, that most of you have passed this

point a long, long time ago.

[Guest guest]

Justicecamp,

Don't feel bad over where you are on the path to dealing with

this. Some of us have had more time to get further and

everyone's situation is different. Plenty of people haven't even

gotten to the stage you're at now.

One thing that might help is to remember that what she wants and

what is good for her are not necessarily the same thing. You're

on the right track when you talk about lessening her pain by not

sparking conflicts. Our nadas want drama and conflict and do

their best to create it in many cases, but that doesn't mean it

is actually good for them. They often try to make us feel guilty

for setting boundaries and limiting contact but in reality,

limiting conflict by doing those things is good for them even

though they want the conflict.

At 12:04 PM 11/04/2010 justicecamp wrote:

>I am trying to detach. That's the place on the path where I am

>now.

>

>A lot of you, most of you in this group, are farther along on

>this path.

>

>I realize what's at stake here and that it's up to me to do

>this work, to understand that I can't make her happy, that I

>can't change her mind about ANYTHING, that I can't alleviate

>her pain. I still tell myself: Well, at least you can LESSEN

>her pain by not sparking any conflicts.

>

>But then, as always, it is all about her pain. Everything has

>always been all about her pain -- everything, as if her pain

>(her fear, her self-loathing, her shame) is a big ever-present

>stalker who follows us everywhere, but on whom we are not

>allowed to call the cops.

>

>She refuses, has always refused, to seek therapy. She says she

>already knows what any therapist would say (she doesn't) and

>that it won't help. I'm sick of urging her to do even minimal

>things to ease her misery -- eat, see a therapist (it would

>cost nothing), read a book. She just shouts no.

>

>My choice is to maintain this endless fruitless argument or

>learn how to be an adult and detach. This is hard. I live

>nearly 1,000 miles away from her and only visit once a year,

>and do have a life and career of sorts, but even so.

>

>It's hard. I realize, from reading your posts, that most of you

>have passed this point a long, long time ago.

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Hmmm. I am still finding how to organize all my history (47 yrs.) in face of

knowing now that my mother, sister and sadly my daughter are diagnosed BPD. I

only found out 2 yrs ago.

I left home at 18yrs. I moved across country from PA to CA at 20 yrs. For most

of my life I have cutoff my mother, definitely my sister and for the last 18

mths my daughter (18yr.) hasn't initiated any contact directly to me or her

sisters. I could " rescue " her by doing the contact myself but I know she needs

to learn to do for heself and not to get " stuck in her emotions " . And after all

this time she really needs to understand the cost of cutting off. I didn't

cutoff my nada until it was so past time being absolutely necessary. I am

feeling very good with my separation to my nada. I am not angry or

enmeshed(although I would be if in relationship)I love her very much but ahe

made to determination not to be well and to continue being abusive.

I consider my position as evolved. I am not plagued by guilt because I chose

to care for myself and my family. Of course my nada never once said she was

sorry or that she ever had any ownership- it was always me! So my situation is

pretty black and white. And the times I have had her visit have always ended up

as complete F***ing nightmares. So I am really clear.

Sue

[Guest guest]

> Truth is, we couldn't have seen it. The more I know about BPD, the more I

understand--there is no way around the brain washing that takes place when you

are raised by a BPD.

This part above Karla is so true. A child's reality is created and defined by

the parents. The child's brain develops during that time. It's a MIRACLE that

we ever see through it at all. Add to that that usually every surrounding

relative is supporting the reality of the BP and denying what the child is

experiencing. Sometimes after I have the rare conversation with my nada where

I don't come out the other end feeling worse than when I dialed the phone, I

wonder am I being too hard on her? am I demonizing her? maybe I'm the crazy

one finding flaws with someone just being human? So I still struggle with the

question of which of my perceptions and judgments are true even after reading

about twenty books on BPD and NPD and years of therapy.

So justicecamp, give yourself a break...I'm one of the ones who is not NC either

and trying to walk that fine line of staying in relationship without getting

consumed by it. While all nadas seem to share so many characteristics there are

unique factors to you and your situation. Give yourself credit for your

journey and know people here really are supportive no matter where you are in

it.