Braiden what the hell is this wasRe: Welcome to 12-step-free

[Guest guest]

Look man, your just another doesn't know the half of it. Thanks for

you rconcern.

> > My apologies Doug

> >

> > Re: Welcome to 12-step-free

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > for the formula to work (work ,meaning turning your will

over

> to

> > > god or other supposed " higher being " ) you have to create the

> > > need. if i believe in

> > > myself to " restore " my sanity, there is no need for god. No

> need

> > > for god!? that blasphemy! so to create the need, you have to

> > > believe the you are

> > > powerless, you have to believe you are incurable. you have

to

> > > believe without the god belief system you will die. the

steps

> > > accomplish that fairly well. if

> > > its wasn't attended to be about god, why was he put in

steps

> to

> > > begin with?

> > >

> > >

> > > AA likes to claim its " spiritual not religious " because you

> can

> > > " make anything your hp " , as if this alone make sit a non

> religious

> > > belief system they are proposing.

> > >

> > >

> > > these quote from bill seem to cast doubt on that

> > > revisionist history of AA:

> > >

> > > Bill and Dr. Bob

> > > Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles in March, 1943

> > >

> > > Bill :

> > > " Divine Aid was A.A.'s greatest asset... "

> > > An alcoholic is a fellow who is " trying to get his religion

> out of a

> > > bottle, " when what he really wants is unity within himself,

> unity

> > > with God. . . . "

> > > " There is a definite religious element here,

> > >

> > > Dr. Bob:

> > > " Read religious literature. Resume church attendance,

> cultivate

> > > the habit of prayer, and transmit the desires and

principles

> of

> > > Alcoholics Anonymous to others. " The paper added: " He

> > > particularly recommended reading the Bible. "

> > >

> > >

> > > LIVING CREATOR GOD:

> > > from " There is a Solution "

> > > " it means that all of us, whatever our race, creed, or

> > > color are the children of a living Creator with whom we may

> form

> > > a relationship upon simple and understandable terms as soon

> > > as we are willing and honest enough to try. "

> > > ------

> > >

> > >

> > > hmmm. seems no mater how willing and honest i am, a door

> > > knob and ash tray aren't my " living creator "

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > suppose we were talking about a religious sect of snake

> > > handlers, and they claimed by handling the snake, you would

> > > have the power of the snake god to

> > > " restore your sanity " . but i tell them don't like snake

> handling,

> > > its

> > > a religious belief and has nothing to do with my

alcoholism.

> they

> > > tell me to pretend the

> > > snake is anything i want, just as long as i continue to

> handle the

> > > snake and belief it will restore my sanity. if i do so, is

it

> any

> > > less a

> > > religious act on my

> > > part? am i not being told to make a leap of faith in the

> snake, and

> > > to believe my " restored " sanity is creditable to the snake?

> > >

> > > if i fail to remain sober, i will be told the " program is

> perfect'

> > > and

> > > that i must not have been handling the snake right. im also

> told

> > > that to stray away from

> > > the snake , would mean facing institutions, jails or death.

> that the

> > > only way i could keep what i got, to keep my sanity was to

> > > continue to cary the message

> > > of the snake.

> > >

> > > do you think many people would think that what i just

> described

> > > wasnt a religious cult, but a " spiritual " fellowship? do

you

> think

> > > the supreme court

> > > would let that be taught in public schools? do you think the

> > > christian coalition would like that? why wouldnt they if it

> was only

> > > " spirtual " and not

> > > relgious?

> > >

> > >

> > > to answer your question, what comes after AA is to start

> thinking

> > > for yourself agian, as opposed to being fed what to think.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

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