Re: Kayleigh Einstein WAS: Help please

[Guest guest]

Intuitions, leaps of understanding, etc. seem to very common in the

discoveries of science. Of course, we rarely hear about the

intuitive leaps that proved to be totally wrong.

Nash, a brilliant mathematician and economist--winner of the Nobel

Prize in economics, was absolutely raving crazy for twenty or more

years of his life, paranoid scizophrenia was the diagnosis I think.

He said the crazy ideas popped into his mind in exactly the same way

as his brilliant discoveries in mathematics and economics. He also

recounted that he recovered by making the decision to abandon his

crazy thoughts and then little by little thought his way out of his

insanity. He was the subject of a very highly regarded biography

recently.

We often make the mistake of looking at intuition and knowledge as

being opposites, when they are often complimentary. The great jazz

improvisers, almost without exception, have spent countless hours

practicing scales, learning tunes, and mastering their instrument.

Only after years of such work is the improviser able to create

spontaneously.

I suspect that in many, or most fields, their is a similar positive

relationship between intuition and knowledge.

[Guest guest]

Can you be more specific on how the " zone " experience differs from the

" aha " experience? Do you think this could differ from person to

person?

> >

> > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but looking at Einstein's

statement,

> > > wouldn't it seem very wrong if intuition was taken to be _the

end_

> > of

> > > the matter? It is my understanding that intuition does indeed

> play

> > an

> > > integral part in the road to discovery, but after the insight,

one

> > > _must_ " work backwards, " with logic and reason. The insight may

> or

> > may

> > > not be valid. I think that is where Einstein _comes off_ in

that

> > short

> > > piece sounding a bit like an XA guru where there is only

" insight "

> > and

> > > the insight is protected from logic, reason and intellect in the

> > > post-insight period, lest the insight tarnishes under their

> effects

> > --

> > > quite the opposite of science and, of course, quite the opposite

> of

> > what

> > > Einstein intended.

> > >

> > > Ken Ragge

[Guest guest]

Did Nash believe his crazy ideas were crazy? Did he make his

brilliant breakthroughs when he thought he was crazy or when he was

diagnosed as crazy? A " crazy " mind is one that is no longer bound by

the conventional, one that will automatically " think out of the box, "

as it were. Perhaps his crazy ideas were not so crazy after all, but

he and we are too convention-bound to see that.

> Intuitions, leaps of understanding, etc. seem to very common in the

> discoveries of science. Of course, we rarely hear about the

> intuitive leaps that proved to be totally wrong.

>

> Nash, a brilliant mathematician and economist--winner of the Nobel

> Prize in economics, was absolutely raving crazy for twenty or more

> years of his life, paranoid scizophrenia was the diagnosis I think.

> He said the crazy ideas popped into his mind in exactly the same way

> as his brilliant discoveries in mathematics and economics. He also

> recounted that he recovered by making the decision to abandon his

> crazy thoughts and then little by little thought his way out of his

> insanity. He was the subject of a very highly regarded biography

> recently.

>

> We often make the mistake of looking at intuition and knowledge as

> being opposites, when they are often complimentary. The great jazz

> improvisers, almost without exception, have spent countless hours

> practicing scales, learning tunes, and mastering their instrument.

> Only after years of such work is the improviser able to create

> spontaneously.

>

> I suspect that in many, or most fields, their is a similar positive

> relationship between intuition and knowledge.

[Guest guest]

> Can you be more specific on how the " zone " experience differs from

the

> " aha " experience? Do you think this could differ from person to

> person?

Not to speak for Pete, but I think the " zone " is getting into a

heightened state of awareness or performance. Think of a baseball

pitcher throwing a no-hitter, an author churning out several chapters

in a burst of brilliance, or an actor turning in a command

performance, or:

" Gee, I've been doing really well, and I haven't been to a XA

meeting in weeks. Life is sure great! "

The " aha " experience implies more of a sudden realization,

resulting in a lasting understanding, than a brief period of peak

performance. The concept of " grokking " something from

Heinlein's " Stranger in a Strange Land " comes into mind. Example:

" Wait, those goofs in XA are a bunch of brainwashed zombies. It

sets me back far more than it helps me. WHAT THE HELL WAS I

THINKING!?!?!? "

Bob Marshall

[Guest guest]

Nash made his breakthroughs before the onset of his paranoid schizophrenia.

His genuinely " crazy " ideas had to do with numerology, global conspiracies,

finding secret messages in the names of politicians after converting the

names to numbers, etc. etc. There is a real difference between

unconventional thinking and schizophrenic mental activity.

Nash got the Nobel Prize in 1994 for work done 40 years earlier. Basically,

people who supported him as a candidate for the prize had to wait around for

years before he " cleared up. "

The biography is " A Beautiful Mind, " by Sylvia Nasar.

--wally

Re: Kayleigh Einstein WAS: Help please

> Did Nash believe his crazy ideas were crazy? Did he make his

> brilliant breakthroughs when he thought he was crazy or when he was

> diagnosed as crazy? A " crazy " mind is one that is no longer bound by

> the conventional, one that will automatically " think out of the box, "

> as it were. Perhaps his crazy ideas were not so crazy after all, but

> he and we are too convention-bound to see that.

>