RE: OT (lest any complain) Re: What's up with that?

December 3, 2000

Bjorn, I'm not sure if your comment about guns being essential for survival

implied that they are here in the wild, wild west. Actually, they aren't,

although some people seem to think that there is this constant threat of

attack which could be successfully fended of by staying " armed. " During the

3 or 4 years that I was active in the drug world... mainly cocaine and crack

cocaine, I spent a great deal of time in some of the most dangerous

neighborhoods imaginable (at least as far as Buffalo and Niagara Falls are

concerned). I was robbed three times, and involved in physical altercations

twice. I quite certain that having a gun in my possession would not have

helped me in those situations. In fact, it may have gotten me killed in one

of them. Since I've quit going to dangerous places, I see no reason for me

to carry a firearm. In terms of protecting myself at home, again, I don't

think that firearms are necessary - HOWEVER - if I want to, I do own a

shotgun. A shotgun makes a much more formidable weapon than a handgun.

Roy Flanigan

Re: Re: What's up with that?

I don't think the snipped sentence gives credit to my balanced post.

Actually

it was I who ignited this thread. At first I was nearly accused of

something,

and now I'm accused of the opposite.

Reminds me of a trench warfare. It's dangerous to be in no man's land :-).

In Denmark weapons are not a big issue, but some people, like collectors,

members of sports clubs, home guards and registered hunters have their

weapons

at home. Years ago there were some episodes with home guards involved where

they used their weapons to commit suicide or jalousie murder, but I think

the

control has got better so that psychic unstable persons are asked to return

their weapons.

But we don't have this attitude that it's your constitutional right to have

a

gun in order to defend yourself or your family. This kind of thinking would

be

thought of as weird, that's what I wanted to say about the European angle,

but

I can surely understand the dilemmas you are facing.

My personal view on weapons are pragmatic. If I lived somewhere where guns

were essential for survival, I would have one. But I rather be without

unless

for sports or interest.

Bjørn

dlmooneymsw wrote:

> Re: What's up with that?

>

> > But as I said, if I lived in USA, I would probably have several

> weapons

>

> Bjorn:

>

> Unfortunately, you would have bought into the paranoid-hysteria mongering

> which is perpetuated by the gun lobby and the right wing fringe here. The

> same groups that would prevent you from coming here in the first place by

> closing our borders to immigration with reactionary, protectionist,

> exclusionary policies. Well, maybe not you...I assume you are white, being

> from northern Europe.

>

December 3, 2000

Roy.

I didn't try to imply anything though it might have sounded like it.

I just tried to express my position and at the same time try to stay clear of

this emotionally loaded question.

I'm having a hard time explaining myself, maybe I should ask Pete to give me an

English lesson :-).

Bjørn

RoyFlanigan wrote:

> Bjorn, I'm not sure if your comment about guns being essential for survival

> implied that they are here in the wild, wild west. Actually, they aren't,

> although some people seem to think that there is this constant threat of

> attack which could be successfully fended of by staying " armed. " During the

> 3 or 4 years that I was active in the drug world... mainly cocaine and crack

> cocaine, I spent a great deal of time in some of the most dangerous

> neighborhoods imaginable (at least as far as Buffalo and Niagara Falls are

> concerned). I was robbed three times, and involved in physical altercations

> twice. I quite certain that having a gun in my possession would not have

> helped me in those situations. In fact, it may have gotten me killed in one

> of them. Since I've quit going to dangerous places, I see no reason for me

> to carry a firearm. In terms of protecting myself at home, again, I don't

> think that firearms are necessary - HOWEVER - if I want to, I do own a

> shotgun. A shotgun makes a much more formidable weapon than a handgun.

>

> Roy Flanigan

>

> Re: Re: What's up with that?

>

> I don't think the snipped sentence gives credit to my balanced post.

> Actually

> it was I who ignited this thread. At first I was nearly accused of

> something,

> and now I'm accused of the opposite.

>

> Reminds me of a trench warfare. It's dangerous to be in no man's land :-).

>

> In Denmark weapons are not a big issue, but some people, like collectors,

> members of sports clubs, home guards and registered hunters have their

> weapons

> at home. Years ago there were some episodes with home guards involved where

> they used their weapons to commit suicide or jalousie murder, but I think

> the

> control has got better so that psychic unstable persons are asked to return

> their weapons.

>

> But we don't have this attitude that it's your constitutional right to have

> a

> gun in order to defend yourself or your family. This kind of thinking would

> be

> thought of as weird, that's what I wanted to say about the European angle,

> but

> I can surely understand the dilemmas you are facing.

>

> My personal view on weapons are pragmatic. If I lived somewhere where guns

> were essential for survival, I would have one. But I rather be without

> unless

> for sports or interest.

>

> Bjørn

>

> dlmooneymsw wrote:

>

> > Re: What's up with that?

> >

> > > But as I said, if I lived in USA, I would probably have several

> > weapons

> >

> > Bjorn:

> >

> > Unfortunately, you would have bought into the paranoid-hysteria mongering

> > which is perpetuated by the gun lobby and the right wing fringe here. The

> > same groups that would prevent you from coming here in the first place by

> > closing our borders to immigration with reactionary, protectionist,

> > exclusionary policies. Well, maybe not you...I assume you are white, being

> > from northern Europe.

> >

>

December 3, 2000

The whole 2nd amendment argument is a red herring because it shifts the

emphasis away from the sexually-based rasicm its really based in and hypes

it to a Constitutional guarantee, which it is not. Reminds me of a bumper

sticker I saw that said WHAT PART OF WELL-REGULATED MILITIA DON'T YOU

UNDERSTAND? Most of the defending is done against....you guessed

it....minorities...by those who feel the need to defnd themselves. The Law

of Instrumentation says that when you have a hammer, everything looks like a

nail. I would extend that to when you have a gun in your pocket, everything

looks like a threat. Especially if all the news you get is from local

television. The " threat " is largely a media-created spectre of a stereotype

of a crack-crazed black man storming out of the ghetto looking for white

women to rape.

Re: What's up with that?

> >

> > > But as I said, if I lived in USA, I would probably have several

> > weapons

> >

> > Bjorn:

> >

> > Unfortunately, you would have bought into the paranoid-hysteria

mongering

> > which is perpetuated by the gun lobby and the right wing fringe here.

The

> > same groups that would prevent you from coming here in the first place

by

> > closing our borders to immigration with reactionary, protectionist,

> > exclusionary policies. Well, maybe not you...I assume you are white,

being

> > from northern Europe.

> >

>

December 6, 2000

I think that I agree with your post (below). It's still early here, and I'm

not completely awake, but it seems to make sense. I particularly agree with

two points that you made - " when you have a gun in your pocket, everything

looks like a threat; " and the " stereotype " that the media creates. During my

years of crack use, I did see some crime... I was robbed a couple of times.

If I'd have had a gun on me, there's a pretty good chance that I'd either be

dead, or in prison now. Of course, I was in places that no " sane " person

would be in the first place. Since I've quit the stuff, I haven't even

remotely felt threatened... I avoid the clearly dangerous areas of town.

In the past, I've known a couple of guys who carried handguns. One of my

observations regarding their behavior was that they seemed to be less

inclined than most people to avoid potentially risky places or behaviors.

One guy seemed to enjoy going to the WRONG types of places - the kinds of

places that are known for trouble.

Last night, I encountered a minor " road rage " incident - I wasn't

blameless... A guy blew by me on the right, running a red light in the

process. I immediately turned on my high beams to irritate him and show my

displeasure with his driving. Before you knew it, we were getting pretty

dangerous on the road... tail gating, blocking lanes, etc. And I was

sober!!! After a couple of minutes of that immature, stupid behavior, I

headed off in another direction. Now, IF he or I were armed, and had been

drinking, where could this have escalated to? Incidentally, someone was

recently shot to death at a mall parking lot nearby in a dispute over a

parking space. hmmmmm

Re: RE: OT (lest any complain) Re: What's up with

that?