Second PhotoDerm Treatment with Dr. Harvey Jay, NYC

[Guest guest]

Hi group,

I sent the proceeding missive regarding my second PhotoDerm session with Dr.

Harvey Jay in NYC and an evaluation of his practice to a subset of the list,

viz., those who responded to my PhotoDerm queries and/or are patients of Dr.

Jay. I have forestalled posting it to the list to avoid unecessarily

" burning bridges " . However, after undergoing my first IPL session with Dr.

Zenda -Lat in Paramus, NJ today, which I will post about when I carve

out some time, and opting for a " fiver " at a $2000 clip, I doubt that I will

return to Dr. Jay's office for any subsequent treatments. If the bridge

must burn, so be it because I hope that the any list members contemplating

treatments with Dr. Jay contributes from my self-inflicted combustion.

Mark

>Hey all,

>

>Those receiving this missive are patients of Dr. Harvey Jay and/or >have

>expressed an interest in my PhotoDerm treatments via e-mail, >whether

>private or on the rosacea-support e-group. I sincerely >apologize for

>sending this message to those offended by their >inclusion herein.

>

>I will recap the salient events in my second PhotoDerm session with >Dr.

>Harvey Jay on Friday, 19 May. To avoid " burning bridges " that may >haunt

>me at a later date, I will delay posting such accounts to the

> >rosacea-support e-group until I have been successfully treated by a

> >PhotoDerm practitioner.

>

>First, my appointment with Dr. Jay was scheduled for 12 noon on the

> >aforementioned date. By the time that I actually met Dr. Jay, it was >1

>P.M. Dr. Jay and his staff apologized for the inordinate delay, >due, they

>claimed, to a prior patient who requested more treatment >than he

>originally said that he needed. Nevertheless, both of my >sessions with

>Dr. Jay have not commenced according to their scheduled >time, as my

>initial consultation and treatment was scheduled for 12:30 >P.M. and I did

>not meet with Dr. Jay until at least 1:15. >Nevertheless, after undergoing

>my second photo session, one of Dr. >Jay's helpers informed me how much

>better my rosacea symtpoms look now >than I did during my previous session.

> I wholeheartedly agree that >Dr. Jay did an outstanding job reducing

>(~70%) an elevated hemangioma >that has plagued my left nasal ala for

>approximately ten years. >However, I did not notice any appreciable

>difference in erythema and >telangiectasia after the first session, and I

>expressed my >dissatisfaction with the results of treatment in reference to

>the >facial T region. At Dr. Jay's behest, I repeatedly looked into the

> >hand-held mirror to visualize the ostensbile results, but what >appeared

>to be the same degree of symptoms stared right back at me. >Several

>patients of Dr. Jay have experienced similar when visualizing >their

>pictures, and, given Dr. Jay and his staff's vested interest in >ensuring

>the satisfaction of his patients, they seem to try their >dandiest to

>convince the patient of results that, for all intents and >purposes, appear

>absent.

> After hearing about how " great " and " terrific " my skin now looks, I

> >proceeded to ask Dr. Jay some questions that may be of interest. >First,

>I queried Dr. Jay regarding the PhotoDerm treatment parameters >utilized

>during my first intense pulsed light (IPL) session. He >denied me access

>to such information on the following grounds: (1) he >uses so many

>different settings during the same session that such >information would

>take a tremendous amount of time to convey and (2) >the settings that lead

>to results with one patient may incite bruising >and the like with other

>patients. According to Dr. Jay, the treatment >parameters are of little or

>no value apart from the individual case at >hand. Having done much

>research in the biomedical literature >regarding IPL therapy in the interim

>between my first and second >sessions and given the fact that I will be

>matriculating in medical >school this August, I found it disconcerting that

>Dr. Jay kept me in >the dark regarding my treatment. Nevertheless, at my

>behest during >treatment, he informed me that we had already used three

>cut-off >filters, viz., 515, 550 and 570 nm. Additionally, I could discern

>the >use of double pulses during treatment, as Dr. Jay's delay times

> >between the double flashes is slow enough to discriminate. Next, upon

> >the recommendations of Drs. Nase, who said that treatment must not be

> >merely " zapping away " , and Bitter, who suggested a " aggressive, but

> >safe " treatment protocol, I implored Dr. Jay to be as aggressive as

> >possible sans scarring during this and all subsequent treatments. I

> >also informed him that temporary side effects like redness, bruising >and

>swelling are not an issue to me; for me, the bottom line with >these

>treatments is long-lasting reduction in rosacea-symptoms! In >response, he

>claimed that aggressive settings do not always translate >into maximal

>results; given my knowledge of the underlying principle >of intense pulsed

>light therapy, viz., photothermolysis, I do not >understand the logic

>behind this suggestion. Along these lines, he >also suggested that

>aggressive settings can generate too much >clearance; therefore, one can

>visualize large white rectangles over >the region of application if the

>treatment parameters are too high. >He also claimed that his treatment

>agenda is more of a " blending " of >redness to render the skin more

>presentable and not complete >clearance. I'm sure that others undergoing

>PhotoDerm therapy don't >want a blending of egregious regions of redness

>with the overall perma->red or pink that most of us evidence. In short, we

>want absolutely, >positively, no red anywhere on our faces! Granted that

>this may not >be possible due to financial considerations and the like, but

>such >remains our agenda behind seeking PhotoDerm therapy.

>

>After he addressed these questions, my second session began. To >reiterate

>my symptoms, I have mild to average erythema and >telangiectasia in my

>facial T region. The redness and telangiectasia >are most pronounced on my

>nose, especially the regions most >susceptible to sun exposure, e.g. the

>bridge and nasal ala. My two >treatments with Dr. Jay were not painful,

>and I observed no post->operative side effects following treatment.

>Nevertheless, immediately >after treatment, my face was not one iota more

>red than it was pre->operative. This situation suggests that treatment

>parameters are not >as aggressive as they should be. In all, I experienced

>approximately >forty zaps from the PhotoDerm crystal. After treatment, the

>real >surprise was sprung upon me, namely, a bill for a whopping $450

> >dollars! Mind you that my treatments are far-from-full-face, and I >had

>waited more than an hour to be called into Dr. Jay's treatment >room.

>Additionally, Dr. Jay informed me that this was a reduced price >from the

>typical cost of a follow-up treatment! Considering that I >recently

>graduated from college and my current income as a research >technician at a

>local medical school, such an exorbitant fee is >extremely draining.

>Nevertheless, I would not mind paying such a fee >for superior treatment of

>rosacea symptoms, which, in view of the >results of many patients of Dr.

>Bitter, Sr.'s office and those trained >by his hands, I have not received.

>

>One caveat: don't take this as a complete denunciation of Dr. Jay's >his

>capabilities with the PhotoDerm crystal! He did a splendid job >treating

>the hemangioma on my nose and, for this reason alone, my two >sessions were

>worth the lavish price tag. Additionally, Dr. Jay has >an excellent

>bedside manner and places his patients at ease by talking >them through the

>treatment, frequently inquiring on the pain of the >procedure.

>Nevertheless, irrespective of Dr. Jay's confidence or >bedside manner, the

>bottom line is results, and, to date, I have not >seen any appreciable

>difference in my rosacea symptoms. Therefore, I >will postpone my third

>treatment with Dr. Jay until I have queried all >of the putative

>practitioners of PhotoDerm in the tri-state (NY, NJ >and CT) area.

>Particularly, I am searching for physician->practitioners trained by Dr.

>Bitter, Sr. at the Institute for >Dermatology and Cosmetic Surgery. On his

>PhotoFacial website >(http://www.photofacial.com/Physicians.htm),

>I discovered a physician >recently trained by Dr. Bitter, Sr., Dr. Zenda

>-Lat. I recently >called her office and scheduled a free

>consultation, and I'll comment >on this phone call when I have the

>opportunity.

>

>In conclusion, for those considering PhotoDerm treatment for rosacea

> >symptoms with Dr. Jay, I advise selecting another practitioner. >Albeit

>bedside manner is excellent, I have not seen any reduction in >erythema

>and/or telangiectasia after two treatments not am I aware of >any patients

>who have seen results comparable to Dr. Bitter Sr.'s and >his trainees.

>Therefore, the search for effective relief continues!

>

>Sincerely yours,

>Mark

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