Re: New to the list!

July 14, 1999

Debbie,

Is your baby have at least 5-6 disposable or 6-8 cloth diapers per day and

is your baby gaining weight? Those are the two questions that will

determine if there is enough milk. Every single pregnancy and

breastfeeding experience is different so it might not be like the other

times. About the pain. Is there any particular tender parts on your

breast or is it more nipple pain? Are you sure he is latching on properly.

Sometimes having someone hold a hand mirror so you can see the whole mouth

helps. Mouth should look like a ducks bill. By the way welcome to the

list, congratulations on your new baby. I am Wendi sahm to Kaija and Zaid.

I am married and live in No. Ca.

Wendi

New to the list!

Hi girls, my name is Debbie, age 31 and live here in Houston. (Will the

other lady from Houston E-mail me privately?)I just had a baby boy on July

8th, 9lbs. 21 2/3 inches long and he's so cute. I have 4 other children,

all

breastfed for about a year, one for 2.5 years! (Too long for me!) The

weirdest thing is happening this time. My milk has not officially come in

yet, it's been almost a week. They never got engorged, huge or leaky,

haven't even had to wear a bra yet (I'm big anyway!) or nursing pads. He

seems to be getting milk and when I squeeze my nipple some comes out,

doesn't squirt out though. Not once have I felt the " let down " and so I'm

wondering, is this it? Has my milk officially " come in " ? Usually with the

last nursers, I was leaking and exploding all over. The left side

absolutely

kills me all the time, even when he's not on it. When he is on it, the

first

few minutes curls my toes in pain. Any answers or advice? Debbie

---------------------------

July 15, 1999

> haven't even had to wear a bra yet (I'm big anyway!) or nursing pads. He

> seems to be getting milk and when I squeeze my nipple some comes out,

> doesn't squirt out though. Not once have I felt the " let down " and so I'm

> wondering, is this it? Has my milk officially " come in " ? Usually with the

> last nursers, I was leaking and exploding all over. The left side absolutely

> kills me all the time, even when he's not on it. When he is on it, the first

> few minutes curls my toes in pain. Any answers or advice? Debbie

Hi Debbie, welcome to the list! I'm , mom to (6),

(3) and (18 months).

I have a few questions for you: What was your birth like? Do you

recall if the entire placenta was delivered? Was the cord tugged on to

speed the delivery of the placenta? Did you get pitocin to help deliver

the baby and/or placenta? Has your baby gained any weight? How does he

act just after nursing? How much time passes between nursing? How many

dirty and wet diapers does he have every 24 hours? Can you see his

tongue cupping under the breast when you gently pull his lower lip down

when he latches on? Have you taken antibiotics lately?

I ask because it sounds almost like you have one of two things going

on. The first would be a surge of oxytocin. It's the same hormone used

in pitocin for labor... and it's what makes your uterus contract, as

well as makes your breasts squeeze out the drops from the back of your

breasts, aka a " let down. " Instead of feeling it as a let down, you're

feeling the after pains still. Which makes me wonder since you haven't

noticed an increase in supply if perhaps you have a retained piece of

placenta. I believe that that could delay the onset of your mature milk

coming in and could cause the " toe curling pain " while your uterus tries

to get rid of that last piece.

The second option would be that your milk has arrived and you nursed so

frequently in the first days and your son is nursing so efficiently that

he is managing your supply with little intervention from you.

Nice meeting you!

-- a native Texan... Arlington! But now living in Europe.

July 15, 1999

In a message dated 7/15/99 6:42:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

angehowe@... writes:

<< Was the cord tugged on to

speed the delivery of the placenta? Did you get pitocin to help deliver

the baby and/or placenta? >>

,

Can you educate me on what you are thinking about these things affecting milk

supply? If you did it in this post, sorry I guess I am tired! I am just

interested!

July 16, 1999

> << Was the cord tugged on to

> speed the delivery of the placenta? Did you get pitocin to help deliver

> the baby and/or placenta? >>

> ,

> Can you educate me on what you are thinking about these things affecting milk

> supply? If you did it in this post, sorry I guess I am tired! I am just

> interested!

>

The placenta is considered to be responsible for triggering the hormones

that signal mature milk production. If all of it hasn't been delivered

from the placenta, these hormones could be delayed, and could delay the

onset of mature milk. Tugging the cord can cause the placenta to tear,

or the cord to tear. It's silly to risk that, to me, since a mom can

also hemorrhage... especially since most placentas deliver on their own

within an hour after birth anyway!

The pitocin could be a problem, especially if given only to speed the

delivery of the placenta. It's the same hormone that is used in milk

let down and uterine contractions. If a mother nurses, she gets double

the amount of oxytocin that a formula feeding mother gets. And even

then, if a mother initiates breastfeeding immediately following birth,

the pitocin would be redundant anyways, as the natural oxytocin, not

synthetic, would be more helpful in speeding the delivery of the

placenta!

But having a double dose of oxytocin could cause " toe-curling " pain when

latching on to breastfeed!

This goes back to birth choices affecting the success of breastfeeding.

July 16, 1999

Thanks for this post ! I was given pitocin after my last two births

due to hemhorraging - I always wondered why nursing seemed to hurt so much

more - though I was just getting too old. What is your advice for this time?

I am almost positive that they will give it to me again after this baby's

birth to try to stop the hemhorraging. thanks. Joan

July 17, 1999

> Thanks for this post ! I was given pitocin after my last two births

> due to hemhorraging - I always wondered why nursing seemed to hurt so much

> more - though I was just getting too old. What is your advice for this time?

> I am almost positive that they will give it to me again after this baby's

> birth to try to stop the hemhorraging. thanks. Joan

I would suggest making a birth plan and sticking to it. Make sure your

doctor will include it in your records -- either in his own handwriting

or include your written plan. Take a copy with you if you think it

would be better. Make sure anyone who you will have supporting you at

your bedsoide during labor knows what your wishes are, and that they are

strong enough advocating for you if you are unable to do so.

One way to avoid getting pitocin is to not have an IV, so insist on

getting a " hep-lock " only. Arrive as late as comfortably possible to

the delivery room -- the less time the staff has to intervene on a

normally progressing labor, the better. Insist that you hold *your*

baby immediately after birth, and that they perform their triage there,

while you hold your baby in your arms. If possible, avoid the routine

procedures that involve taking the baby to another room... like

bathing. Ask to do it later when you have more energy. Ask that *you*

do the bath, and not them. If you put your baby to the breast

immediately after birth, you have a natural surge of oxytocin. Let them

know that you know this, and that you hope not to overload your system

with " unnecessary " oxytocin. Ask that they not give you anything, like

pit, unless you *must* have it, a *medical indication.*

If you stress your desires to your doctor, and you can support them if

necessary with valid reasons why these are important to you, you will

most likely be able to have the birth you want.

If all else fails, remember this phrase, " AMA. " If any nurse or

physician tells you that you *must* have something and you don't wish to

have it, tell them that you refuse it and are willing to sign an " AMA

form. " AMA is an acronym for Against Medical Advice. If you are not

sure if the procedure you're hoping to avoid is needed for your

situation, call your insurance company from the labor room, or have

someone else do it. They have guidelines on what they will pay for, and

will advise you on what they think the procedure/medicine is expected to

accomplish.

My situation: I went in the night before I gave birth to since I

had been laboring surely but slowly. I was really concerned that it was

going too slow to be healthy for the baby (lots of contractions means

lots of pressure on the baby/placenta). They checked me and thought

that I was in labor about 2 weeks too soon and were going to medicate me

to stop labor. I told them I'd sign an AMA form and walk out. I called

the insurance company from my bed for information about the medication,

and also to find out if I did sign an AMA that they would still pay.

The on-call physician changed plans and just monitored me for a bit. My

water broke on its own a few hours later and my son was born in a short

time -- and my contractions were still slow. At the peak, they were 5

mins apart! Really odd. But wonderfully slow!

July 17, 1999