Re: Ultralente to be discontinued

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/6/2005 4:06:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,

whimsy2@... writes:

> Ultralente is going to be discontinued by the end of the year.

Hmm, that's disappointing news, especially when you've got your control

strategies all worked out with Ultralente.

However, it does raise the interesting question of what to do for a

replacement. I guess it's time to start looking at the action curves of Lantus,

and

maybe other insulin combinations.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/6/2005 5:55:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,

whimsy2@... writes:

> Not a lotta people use Ultralente

Did you ask about Lente, as well, Vicki?

The action curves for Lente and Ultralente are very similar. The Lente might

be even better for my two injections per day, spaced 12 hours apart. I'll try

it as soon as my present vials are exhausted. That will be in 10 to 12 weeks.

[Guest guest]

I just called Lilly. It's not a rumor. Ultralente is going to be

discontinued by the end of the year.

I'm REALLY REALLY PISSED.

I'm going to retire soon and I can't afford the new high-priced spread

(Lantus).

Not to mention having to go through the whole testing thing with another

insulin to find my new basal dose.

If the pump were cheaper, I'd go for that. But all in all, from what

I've heard, pump equipment and supplies are MORE expensive than Lantus -

am I correct? Could someone on the pump give me an idea of about how

much it costs per month to be on the pump?

The only thing I can think of to do right now is go to Costco and buying

up all the Ultralente they have.

Vicki

[Guest guest]

Of course not with the Drs pushing the new expensive stuff!!!

There's much more profit in the " new wonderful stuff " , than just

manufacturing the old.

I suspect that the Drs were pushed into " Lantus " as the best thing by

salespersons glowing reports & of course, the free samples!

Grrrr! I was holding UL as the backup plan if/when I have to use meds. More

motivation to keep good control with D-E-S.

, T2, etc..................

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..

I suspect there aren't many people buying it.

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

Did they say *WHY*!?

Maybe you could get a letter campaign going, and get them to

change their minds? I'm not on it, but heck, I'd write and

complain for ya, if you need to!

Are they replacing it with something 'better' or just assuming

everyone will go over to Lantus?

SulaBlue

> I just called Lilly. It's not a rumor. Ultralente is going to be

> discontinued by the end of the year.

>

> I'm REALLY REALLY PISSED.

>

> I'm going to retire soon and I can't afford the new high-priced

spread

> (Lantus).

> Vicki

[Guest guest]

> Did they say *WHY*!?

I suspect there aren't many people buying it.

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

I think it's hopeless. Not a lotta people use Ultralente although I've

been pushing it for this very reason since I started using it

successfully. If I got even 100 people to write (which I don't think I

could) I doubt that it would do any good, looking at the big picture.

Darnit.

But thanks for the offer, anyway.

Vicki

Re: Ultralente to be discontinued

> Did they say *WHY*!?

>

> Maybe you could get a letter campaign going, and get them to

> change their minds? I'm not on it, but heck, I'd write and

> complain for ya, if you need to!

>

> Are they replacing it with something 'better' or just assuming

> everyone will go over to Lantus?

>

> SulaBlue

>

>

>> I just called Lilly. It's not a rumor. Ultralente is going to be

>> discontinued by the end of the year.

>>

>> I'm REALLY REALLY PISSED.

>>

>> I'm going to retire soon and I can't afford the new high-priced

> spread

>> (Lantus).

>

>> Vicki

[Guest guest]

I saw this link on another list. There are 4 insulins being dropped.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050706/BUSINESS/

507060399

The products being dropped have low or falling sales and are used by

about 68,000 diabetics.

The number of diabetics using the newly discontinued Lilly insulins

amount to 2 percent of the 3.5 million insulin users in the United

States.

> >> I just called Lilly. It's not a rumor. Ultralente is going to be

> >> discontinued by the end of the year.

> >>

> >> I'm REALLY REALLY PISSED.

> >>

> >> I'm going to retire soon and I can't afford the new high-priced

> > spread

> >> (Lantus).

> >

> >> Vicki

[Guest guest]

How long does UL keep? Maybe you could stock up before they cease

production.

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 18:26:06 EDT DEKEP@... writes:

> In a message dated 7/6/2005 5:55:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> whimsy2@... writes:

>

> > Not a lotta people use Ultralente

>

> Did you ask about Lente, as well, Vicki?

>

> The action curves for Lente and Ultralente are very similar. The

> Lente might

> be even better for my two injections per day, spaced 12 hours apart.

> I'll try

> it as soon as my present vials are exhausted. That will be in 10 to

> 12 weeks.

>

>

>

>

, lente is included in the list.

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 20:20:06 -0000 " SulaBlue "

writes:

> Did they say *WHY*!?

>

Because UL and L don't have enough users to make it a viable product.

Because human insulins require cadavers and the analog insulins do not.

Because UL is to insulin as the Edsel was to cars. Acceptance in the

product never met expectations.

> Maybe you could get a letter campaign going, and get them to

> change their minds? I'm not on it, but heck, I'd write and

> complain for ya, if you need to!

>

> Are they replacing it with something 'better' or just assuming

> everyone will go over to Lantus?

>

Since Eli Lilly does not make Lantus, how would they benefit from its

popularity?

> SulaBlue

>

SulaBlue, you sound like what happened when Lilly and Novo discontinued

animal insulins. Lots of letters, campaigns, a guy who's last name was

Groves, ( I can't remember his first name at the moment) sued Novo

claiming that the new human insulins made him and others hypo unaware. He

lost the lawsuit. There were protests and a company in the UK agreed to

produce animal insulin, I think pork only. Big surprise, company went

down the tube and people adapted, except for the Groves guy. He died

about a year ago or so.

And there is more than just Lantus. Detemir was approved by the FDA last

week, which is a novo product and if Lilly is discontinuing UL and L they

have an alternative in the pipeline and there is always NPH which is not

going anywhere because now it is the only insulin that can be used in the

premixes. With Novo adapting novolog in the premixes R will be the next

to go. Sometimes SulaBlue change is good. Insulin has evolved for the

good of the patient, just like type II meds have evolved and hopefully

humans will evolve too.

[Guest guest]

Not just Ultralente, either.

From the Eli Lilly website:

" INDIANAPOLIS, July 6, 2005 - Eli Lilly and Company (NYSE: LLY) today announced

that it is

discontinuing production of Iletin® II Pork Insulin (Regular and

NPH®formulations), and

Humulin®U Ultralente® and Humulin®L Lente®(Humulin U and Humulin L) insulin

products. Given current inventories and patient demand, these products should be

available in pharmacies through the end of 2005. "

http://newsroom.lilly.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=168048

SulaBlue

> >> I just called Lilly. It's not a rumor. Ultralente is going to be

> >> discontinued by the end of the year.

> >>

> >> I'm REALLY REALLY PISSED.

> >>

> >> I'm going to retire soon and I can't afford the new high-priced

> > spread

> >> (Lantus).

> >

> >> Vicki

[Guest guest]

That's m' plan. Going to Costco tomorrow and I'm going to buy up a

bunch. Since one bottle usually lasts me 2 months I'll have to watch

the expiration dates...but I know that if they're kept refrigerated

they'll last some time past the " official " expiration date. I just don't

know how much longer.

Vicki

Re: Re: Ultralente to be discontinued

> How long does UL keep? Maybe you could stock up before they cease

> production.

>

> Gretchen

>

[Guest guest]

>If the pump were cheaper, I'd go for that. But all in all, from what

>I've heard, pump equipment and supplies are MORE expensive than Lantus -

>am I correct? Could someone on the pump give me an idea of about how

>much it costs per month to be on the pump?

I've been intensely looking at the pump. I have the same impression

after costing out supplies and adding up the numbers.

>

>The only thing I can think of to do right now is go to Costco and buying

>up all the Ultralente they have.

What does a vial cost?

---

De Armond

See my website for my current email address

http://www.johngsbbq.com

Cleveland, Occupied TN

[Guest guest]

--- Samante wrote:

> On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 20:20:06 -0000 " SulaBlue "

> writes:

> > Did they say *WHY*!?

> Because human insulins require cadavers and the analog insulins do not.

Not at all. Humulins are ALL made in a tank by bacteria, just like Humalog

except they are

patterned directly after natural human insulin. Humalog is different only in

that 2 components

were exchanged on the ends of the molecules.

Lilly makes all Human Insulins using recombinant DNA (rDBA) technolgy where they

modified E Coli

bacteria to produce insulin in a tank. All they need to do is add nutrients in a

timely fashion

and then filter the results. Novo uses rDNA modified yeast to avoid patent

infringement.

I know, since I was my endo's first patient to Humulin in (about) 1983.

Ted Quick

[Guest guest]

--- whimsy2 wrote:

> That's m' plan. Going to Costco tomorrow and I'm going to buy up a

> bunch. Since one bottle usually lasts me 2 months I'll have to watch

> the expiration dates...but I know that if they're kept refrigerated

> they'll last some time past the " official " expiration date. I just don't

> know how much longer.

Vicki,

The expiration date is very conservative and allows for somewhat higher temps

than your fridge is

probably at, so it should be full strength for some time thereafter, perhaps

{guesstimate} a few

months more. Anyway, whenever insulin does start expiring it just decreases in

effective strength

fairly slowly. So if you buy enough to last that long it will eventually get to

the point of

diminishing returns. You'll have to shoot more for the same effect so after that

it will be used

up a bit faster until it's all gone.

Ted Quick

[Guest guest]

Oops, sorry Ted. That was the story when the human insulins first came

out and I bought into it.

I learn something new every day.

On Thu, 7 Jul 2005 00:07:27 -0700 (PDT) Ted Quick

writes:

> --- Samante wrote:

> > On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 20:20:06 -0000 " SulaBlue "

>

> > writes:

> > > Did they say *WHY*!?

> > Because human insulins require cadavers and the analog insulins do

> not.

>

> Not at all. Humulins are ALL made in a tank by bacteria, just like

> Humalog except they are

> patterned directly after natural human insulin. Humalog is different

> only in that 2 components

> were exchanged on the ends of the molecules.

>

> Lilly makes all Human Insulins using recombinant DNA (rDBA)

> technolgy where they modified E Coli

> bacteria to produce insulin in a tank. All they need to do is add

> nutrients in a timely fashion

> and then filter the results. Novo uses rDNA modified yeast to avoid

> patent infringement.

>

> I know, since I was my endo's first patient to Humulin in (about)

> 1983.

>

> Ted Quick

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Ted.

Vicki, coming out of panic mode...

Re: Re: Ultralente to be discontinued

> --- whimsy2 wrote:

>> That's m' plan. Going to Costco tomorrow and I'm going to buy up a

>> bunch. Since one bottle usually lasts me 2 months I'll have to watch

>> the expiration dates...but I know that if they're kept refrigerated

>> they'll last some time past the " official " expiration date. I just

>> don't

>> know how much longer.

>

> Vicki,

>

> The expiration date is very conservative and allows for somewhat

> higher temps than your fridge is

> probably at, so it should be full strength for some time thereafter,

> perhaps {guesstimate} a few

> months more. Anyway, whenever insulin does start expiring it just

> decreases in effective strength

> fairly slowly. So if you buy enough to last that long it will

> eventually get to the point of

> diminishing returns. You'll have to shoot more for the same effect so

> after that it will be used

> up a bit faster until it's all gone.

>

[Guest guest]

I'm going to Costco today to buy up a few bottles. I'll let you know

then. (It takes me so long to use up a bottle that I forget from time to

time.)

Vicki

Re: Ultralente to be discontinued

>

>

>

>>If the pump were cheaper, I'd go for that. But all in all, from what

>>I've heard, pump equipment and supplies are MORE expensive than

>>Lantus -

>>am I correct? Could someone on the pump give me an idea of about how

>>much it costs per month to be on the pump?

>

> I've been intensely looking at the pump. I have the same impression

> after costing out supplies and adding up the numbers.

>

>>

>>The only thing I can think of to do right now is go to Costco and

>>buying

>>up all the Ultralente they have.

>

> What does a vial cost?

>

>

> ---

> De Armond

> See my website for my current email address

> http://www.johngsbbq.com

> Cleveland, Occupied TN

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/7/2005 2:29:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,

whimsy2@... writes:

<< Each bottle of UL costs $28.29.

Each bottle of Lantus costs $60 at Costco

That's useful data, Vicki.

I'm adopting a somewhat different tactic. I'm going to experiment ASAP with

Lantus, or whatever other insulins may be appropriate. I want to be prepared.

And if Lilly gets stuck with a lot of unsold Ultralente, then so be it

BTW, when you compare the cost of Lantus versus Ultralente it's only fair to

consider cost savings in the syringes. My syringes cost 16 cents each. Using

one/day instead of two/day will save me about $9.6 every two months. And my

tummy will be pleased!

[Guest guest]

Okay, just came back from Costco. I bought up 6 bottles of

UL...expiration date is January 2007. It takes me about 2 months to use

up a bottle so that should keep me supplied for a while. I'm going to

visit some of the other Costco stores in the next week or so and see if

I can get any more.

Each bottle of UL costs $28.29.

Each bottle of Lantus costs $60 at Costco.

Vicki

Re: Ultralente to be discontinued

>

>

>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 13:09:22 -0700, " whimsy2 "

>> wrote:

>>

>>

>>>If the pump were cheaper, I'd go for that. But all in all, from what

>>>I've heard, pump equipment and supplies are MORE expensive than

>>>Lantus -

>>>am I correct? Could someone on the pump give me an idea of about how

>>>much it costs per month to be on the pump?

>>

>> I've been intensely looking at the pump. I have the same impression

>> after costing out supplies and adding up the numbers.

>>

>>>

>>>The only thing I can think of to do right now is go to Costco and

>>>buying

>>>up all the Ultralente they have.

>>

>> What does a vial cost?

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Do let us know the results of your experiment. Will you continue to use

Lantus twice a day? I think for me this would be critical since my

morning requirement (8 a.m.) is slightly more than half that of my

evening dose. (5 UL 8 a.m. versus 9 UL 8 pm.)

I'm especially interested in how much Lantus you need compared to the

UL.

Vicki

Re: Ultralente to be discontinued

> In a message dated 7/7/2005 2:29:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> whimsy2@... writes:

>

> << Each bottle of UL costs $28.29.

>

> Each bottle of Lantus costs $60 at Costco

>

> That's useful data, Vicki.

>

> I'm adopting a somewhat different tactic. I'm going to experiment ASAP

> with

> Lantus, or whatever other insulins may be appropriate. I want to be

> prepared.

> And if Lilly gets stuck with a lot of unsold Ultralente, then so be it

>

>

> BTW, when you compare the cost of Lantus versus Ultralente it's only

> fair to

> consider cost savings in the syringes. My syringes cost 16 cents each.

> Using

> one/day instead of two/day will save me about $9.6 every two months.

> And my

> tummy will be pleased!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wondering if anyone re-uses the pen-needles the same way? At

least within the same day?

SulaBlue

> I always reuse my syringes...usually good for about 4 times

each before

> I start having trouble gettin' them thru my skin. Of course I'm

very

> careful to not get the syringes for UL and the ones from H

mixed up. (I

> keep them in different places).

> Vicki

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 20:31:25 -0000 " SulaBlue "

writes:

> Wondering if anyone re-uses the pen-needles the same way? At

> least within the same day?

>

> SulaBlue

>

Oh heck, if a needle manufacturer depended on me to make a profit they

would have a major problem. I reuse pen needles for the life of the

cartridge. I use the novo penfil3 or novopen jr, which holds 300 units.

The novolog cartridge could last 30 days and the lantus cartridge (not in

a lantus pens but a novo pen) needle lasts a little more than 3 weeks.

Now would you like to guess how long I use a lancet needle? :-)

[Guest guest]

> I always reuse my syringes...usually good for about 4 times each before

> I start having trouble gettin' them thru my skin.

I think with Lantus it's not wise to reuse syringes. Sometimes skin cells

can cause the Lantus to come out of solution, and if that happens, you lose

the whole bottle. Of course you might want to try. Maybe it wouldn't happen.

Gretchen